OK pick you favourite aircraft 109 vs Spit

[Bloblast]

Here some technical data, 109 faster under 5.700 meter, Spit faster above and higher topspeed.

109 2x 7,92mm MG's (Firing time 67sec) 2x 20mm canons (Firing time 7sec) versus Spit 8x 7,7mm MG's (Firing time 18sec).

Spit has only 2 prop pitch settings and carburettor engine while 109 has fuel injections so has no fuel flow stops during high G's.


Bf109 E-3 Spitfire Mk Ia

DB 601A Merlin II / III

1.175 HP 1.030 HP

Speed kph kph
sea level 486 454
1.200 mt 506 477
2.400 mt 528 502
3.600 mt 533 528
4.800 mt 562T 551
5.700 mt 560 570T
6.000 mt 559 568
7.200 mt 555 560

m/sec m/sec
Rate of climb 17,83 12,65

[Avimimus]

Hurricane
(woops meant Blenheim)

[IceFire]

So pick our favourite between the Spitfire Mark I or the Bf109E-3? Or are other models are in the runnings...there are of course huge differences between a Mark I Spitfire or a E-3 Messerschmidt and the late XIV or K-4 models of these two famous fighters.

[ElAurens]

Gladiator or Avro Anson for me please, with a Boulton-Paul Defiant on standby.

[DKoor]

I'll probably enjoy Hurricane better than both of those planes in question, however I can't tell for sure... I will do that few months after I get SoW:-P.

[WTE_Galway]

Gladiator or Avro Anson for me please, with a Boulton-Paul Defiant on standby.

Gladiator for me as well ... and maybe the 109D.

[IvanK]

Blobblast

By the time the Battle of Britain commenced ALL Spitfires and Hurricanes were equipped with Constant Speed Props :)

[Biggs]

Blobblast

By the time the Battle of Britain commenced ALL Spitfires and Hurricanes were equipped with Constant Speed Props :)

i was just about to say that.

and by the middle of the "battle" (August) the mkII made its way into the front line squadrons.

the battle between the 109E and Spit mkI/II was pretty even. tho i'd have to go with the spit. ;)

[Bobb4]

The Me109e for me, but to be honest what about the trusty old Me 110 with its cannons it packs a punch and should not be under estimated.
But I must be honest if I was forced to choose a plane I am most looking forward to flying it will be the Tigermoth. :grin:

[F19_Klunk]

Well who needs those beasts 109s and Spits when we have such fine Cr@pGalore airplanes as the Gloster Gladiator and Fiat CR42 :)

IF I have to choose an uberplane I guess it would be the Hurricane ;)

[Tvrdi]

Ill choose both, 109 and the spit. Like always. Unlike most of the guys.

[F19_Klunk]

Ill...Unlike most of the guys.
Sto?

[Bloblast]

Blobblast

By the time the Battle of Britain commenced ALL Spitfires and Hurricanes were equipped with Constant Speed Props :)

Yes, but this was later on. Would be intresting when this done, Oleg could include this improvement some time in the BOB campaign.

Otherwise flutter would remain during whole BOB campaign.

Ill ask Oleg.

[Biggs]

Yes, but this was later on. Would be intresting when this done, Oleg could include this improvement some time in the BOB campaign.

Otherwise flutter would remain during whole BOB campaign.

Ill ask Oleg.

Ive already done it...
"10. sorry if this has already been answered, but what is the time line for BoB:SoW going to span? ...
Are well looking at May '40 through September? or will it go on into winter '40/'41?"

Oleg's answer: June 40- October 40

"Is it known if the Spitfire and the Hurricane mkIs will be modeled with the 3-bladed De Havilland Constant Speed Propeller? both planes were fitted with them starting in June 1940... Or will the sim start at an earlier date and therefore have both the older 3-bladed 2-pitch DH Hamilton propeller and the later constant speed DH?"

Oleg's answer: Probably both variants. In code it is already.

"also are you planning on including the Spitfire mkII? squadrons started conversion to them in September '40."

Oleg's answer: No.

^that last answer is unfortunate. i dont really see why it wont be included, its not like there needs to be a completely reworked model, just a slightly changed FM. oh well. :(

[proton45]

I have to say that I have always enjoyed the BF109's "nasty-mean" looks...and I also love the history and beauty of the Spitfire...but like a lot of people here I'm really curious about trying my skills with the Hurricane. When you read "RL" story's about the air battles of "BoB" you read fantastic accounts of "every-day-joes" battling away with the "bread & butter" Hurricane...

In the end I will fly them ALL...

[flyingbullseye]

Since both are nearly as deadly as the next and almost equal in performance out of shear beauty I'm going for the spit.

Flyingbullseye

[Bloblast]

Ive already done it...
"10. sorry if this has already been answered, but what is the time line for BoB:SoW going to span? ...
Are well looking at May '40 through September? or will it go on into winter '40/'41?"

Oleg's answer: June 40- October 40

"Is it known if the Spitfire and the Hurricane mkIs will be modeled with the 3-bladed De Havilland Constant Speed Propeller? both planes were fitted with them starting in June 1940... Or will the sim start at an earlier date and therefore have both the older 3-bladed 2-pitch DH Hamilton propeller and the later constant speed DH?"

Oleg's answer: Probably both variants. In code it is already.

"also are you planning on including the Spitfire mkII? squadrons started conversion to them in September '40."

Oleg's answer: No.

^that last answer is unfortunate. i dont really see why it wont be included, its not like there needs to be a completely reworked model, just a slightly changed FM. oh well. :(


BOBSOW from June, so cutting out of engine should not be moddeled in game?

By the way this is very intresting read:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/bloblast/f_d5yl8origm_17e3e5e.jpg

[*Buzzsaw*]

Here some technical data, 109 faster under 5.700 meter, Spit faster above and higher topspeed.

109 2x 7,92mm MG's (Firing time 67sec) 2x 20mm canons (Firing time 7sec) versus Spit 8x 7,7mm MG's (Firing time 18sec).

Spit has only 2 prop pitch settings and carburettor engine while 109 has fuel injections so has no fuel flow stops during high G's.


Bf109 E-3 Spitfire Mk Ia

DB 601A Merlin II / III

1.175 HP 1.030 HP

Speed kph kph
sea level 486 454
1.200 mt 506 477
2.400 mt 528 502
3.600 mt 533 528
4.800 mt 562T 551
5.700 mt 560 570T
6.000 mt 559 568
7.200 mt 555 560

m/sec m/sec
Rate of climb 17,83 12,65

Your figures listed for the Spitfire are for +6 boost 1030hp versions, when in fact, nearly all the Spitfires operational in the BoB after July were using +12 boost.

I would suggest you look through this page for the details re. the evolution of Spit I performance:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-I.html

[Brain32]

I suggest you don't look too much into Won teh war bullshit on that site

[ElAurens]

The One Oh Whiner has spoken!

:rolleyes:

[LEXX]

I prefer Avro Lincoln and HP Victor.

I get flamed on the Lancaster forums ("you is arcade") and also on the Vulcan webboards ("a traitor you are sir"). so I hide out here.

[IvanK]

Yes, but this was later on. Would be intresting when this done, Oleg could include this improvement some time in the BOB campaign.

Otherwise flutter would remain during whole BOB campaign.

Ill ask Oleg.

Actually Boblast it depends exactly what you mean by later on.

All Spitfires,Hurricanes and were converted to Constant Speed units by 16August 1940.

Spitfires were the first to be converted commencing on 24June 1940. There conversion being completed earlier than 16 Aug 1940.

Ref : Spitfire the History By Morgan and Shacklady. Pages 53 and 54 under the heading of "The Switch to Constant Speed Propellers"

[Bloblast]

I do not exactly know when conversion started and was completed for Spitfires and Hurricanes. A the beginning of BOB say around June 40 may be a small percentage was converted.

[IvanK]

As in my previous post:

Spitfires were the first to be converted commencing on 24June 1940.
All Spitfires,Hurricanes and were converted to Constant Speed units by 16August 1940.

[Thunderbolt56]

Can't say I have a preference right now, but honestly looking more forward to flying the Emils than the Spits.

They're both so close in performance that it should be a white-knuckle affair every time.

[mondo]

I'm personally more interested in flying the Beaufighter and some of the other aircraft.

[mazex]

My decision is purely emotional...

Three reasons for the Spit during BoB:

Is there a more beautiful plane EVER than the Spitfire?

I like playing the under dog - and during BoB that further strengthens my choice...

Emil is too crude, Fredrich is too weak. Gustav - now we talk!

/Mazex

[Lodestone]

Three reasons for the Spit during BoB:

Is there a more beautiful plane EVER than the Spitfire?

I like playing the under dog - and during BoB that further strengthens my choice...

Emil is too crude, Fredrich is too weak. Gustav - now we talk!

1) no, never has been and likely never will be (opinion of course)

2) I agree here too, being the underdog is more fun

3) Friedrich too weak? Maybe the MG 151/15 is weak, but not Friedrich! 109-F is in my opinion the best of all 109's when compared to its adversaries. Nothing in 1941 can touch the F-4 (with MG 151/20 especially)

Also, are we going to fight over England? If so, I want a Spit so I can fight for longer than 10 minutes. If we are going to fight over France then I will happilly fly Emil :)

Final answer.......SPITTY!

[mazex]

3) Friedrich too weak? Maybe the MG 151/15 is weak, but not Friedrich! 109-F is in my opinion the best of all 109's when compared to its adversaries. Nothing in 1941 can touch the F-4 (with MG 151/20 especially)


You´re right - I do specifically mean the F2 with the 15mm MG 151. I'm like Galland - who refused to fly the F series until the F4 was introduced... Anyway - I do like the added firepower that was introduced in the G6 when they dropped the MG17 for the MG 131. In the F2 you have two 7.92mm and one 15mm. That's not enough for a 1940 fighter in my opinion...

EDIT: Speaking about looks (that the Spit has in excess) - subjective soft/undefinable stuff also makes me think of the Friedrich as "weak". It looks so clean an nimble compared to the other me:s. The E is blocky and looks mean. The G and K have their bumps and stuff that also gives them a brute look in some way... An Me is never beautiful to me - but it can look like a menacing war machine, accept the F :)

[Avimimus]

"also are you planning on including the Spitfire mkII? squadrons started conversion to them in September '40."

Oleg's answer: No.

^that last answer is unfortunate. i dont really see why it wont be included, its not like there needs to be a completely reworked model, just a slightly changed FM. oh well. :(

Addon most likely...

[Dark_P]

What if i would say He 111 :P

[Paul]

Blobblast

By the time the Battle of Britain commenced ALL Spitfires and Hurricanes were equipped with Constant Speed Props :)

From the 78th spitfire I onwards - either a constant speed OR two pitch 3 bladed propellor rather than the 2 bladed wooden fixed pitch. These fought in the battle of britain.

Many aircraft were field upgraded during the BoB to the constant speed.

[Igo kyu]

From the 78th spitfire I onwards - either a constant speed OR two pitch 3 bladed propellor rather than the 2 bladed wooden fixed pitch. These fought in the battle of britain.

Many aircraft were field upgraded during the BoB to the constant speed.
The Narrow Margin says "... to enquire whether a Spitfire could be fitted with a constant speed propeller ... An extra 7,000 feet was added to the service ceiling and the machine had a better manouverability at height and improved take-off and landing perfomance ... on June 22nd, de Havilland received verbal orders to convert all R.A.F. Merlin powered fighters in the field with top priority. ... By August 15th 1,051 Spitfires and Hurricanes had been converted,"

Hope that helps.

[Sturm_Williger]

My decision is purely emotional...

Three reasons for the Spit during BoB:

Is there a more beautiful plane EVER than the Spitfire?

....
/Mazex

Speaking personally, I find the Me far more beautiful. It's a bit like a Dolphin ( Spit ) vs Shark ( Me ).

The Me looks like the superb killing machine it is. :)

[mazex]

Speaking personally, I find the Me far more beautiful. It's a bit like a Dolphin ( Spit ) vs Shark ( Me ).

The Me looks like the superb killing machine it is. :)

I hear what you say, and agree with it in many ways. The Spit looks a bit to "nice" but there is something about that elliptical wing I guess... It's in some aspects considered the "perfect wing" - on the drawing board. The backside is naturally that it's very expensive and complicated to do - and has nasty stall characteristics if done "all out" as the whole wings stalls at the same time...

/Mazex