Combat Tactics?: Yak-1b vs. FW-190

[ADDAX]

Or, how can horizontal turners beat fast vertical boom and zoomers?

I've been playing through one of the Russian static fighter campaigns, and I'm having real trouble taking on the faster German planes which always climb out of range.

Sure, sometimes I can take the dogfight to low altitude, and lure the AI into a turning battle which I can win.

However, a lot of the time when I'm up against the higher level pilots, they won't bite. I find myself constantly chasing a faster aircraft as it climbs in a gradual turn, only to have it, or it's wingman roll over and bounce me from above. After I evade the attack and get my sights on target, I'm lucky if the enemy is any closer than 400m... effectively out of range.

The only other tactic I've tried is to turn into the attack as its coming and take them in a head on. I've won a few of these, but its more luck than anything else when faced with a full frontal barrage from a FW-190.

Basically, does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with a faster opponent who's smart enough not to get bogged down in a turning fight?

I'm looking for some maneuvers I can pull to evade their attacks and get a shot off before the climb away again.

Also, in the context of playing solo missions, has anyone had any success using wingman commands to actually be able to use teamwork with an AI wingman? (that is, other than using him as a target decoy which at best distracts one of the enemy planes for about 30seconds untill he goes down in flames)

Note: I'm playing on full difficulty exept for some of the minimap and camera view stuff.

Thanks in advance for your advice...

ADDAX

[GF_Mastiff]

the only other option is to dumb down the AI pilot in the Ini file

[Shrike_UK]

good topic Addax, having been a turn fighter pilot (LAGG-3) for many years, hopefully i can give some useful tips...

Theres some common rules that apply, and need to be worked to your advantage. Your a turn fighter, then use your turning advantage as much as poss.
I'll share my tactic with you although i use this mostly online, its a general rule of which may work in all scenarios, although against a bnz person i would always say chances of suvival are 50/50 at best.....i have many time killed human bnz'ers online with this tactic tho.
Suppose your being bnz'd by the fw190:
Firstly, never loose sight of him, learn to have good situational awareness with the ground and hills, so that you can keep watching the enemy rather than the scenery. This should be second nature to you.
Never climb to try catch him. Your a turn fighter, and you will be bleeding off too much energy climbing which you will need later to do your turns. Make him come to you. In general, most bnz'ers will wait until your in a good position for him to bounce you, this is good because it means you decide when he engages you, try to get into a hilly terrain. If hes a really good sniper he will attack you at a strange angle, such as your 3'oclock, rather than 6'oclock. If he is a 6'oclocker you will have a little advantage. Fly straight to let him get on your six high, as he starts the attack watch and wait for just as hes getting in firing range, turn hard 90 degs, then flip you plane so you are on the other wing, i.e. if you hard turned right, then your left wing its high, roll over till your right wing is high. do this fast, he will not shoot at you during this moment as you have gone way out of his gunsight if you did it close enough. then hold you a/c up on its side, this will make you be a much smaller target and potentially volatile target. He is already committed as he is loosing alt, and you may at this point sucker him into a turn fight if hes inexperienced, or if hes a survivor and aborts and goes for the climb, you must turn into him and shoot, as your only 90 degs off, and close to his predicted flight path, should be easy to get on him fast. although you'll need to be very quick about this. If you did get him close enough before making the turn, you will be able get a quick burst off hopefully giving a little damage. If he makes it away, then use a different tactic on his next pass. I provide you with a few alternatives here....
Another technique i use is to let him get in firing range on your six high then depending on his distance, do a barrel roll, or if hes close, pull up hard so he cant turn with you climb, go inverted to hold your energy, and wait for him to pop up in front of you. (you stay inverted for several reasons which you will find out when you try it).

Hope this is helpful.

[JG52Uther]

Online against a good FW190 tag team,if you are lower then you are just fish in a barrel.

[proton45]

I don't have many fancy moves...but when flying "slower" Japanese fighters against faster Allied fighters I try and approach the fight at a higher altitude (I know, I know)...if I can't come in higher I don't bother...the added speed from diving and careful energy management helps give me the extra speed I need in the fight.

If I can then get them to move down and slow down I can turn fight them...

[Bobb4]

Or, how can horizontal turners beat fast vertical boom and zoomers?

I've been playing through one of the Russian static fighter campaigns, and I'm having real trouble taking on the faster German planes which always climb out of range.
ADDAX
And the reason you cannot climb to their altitude is????
Superchargers and the right fuel mixture and you will be in the stratousphere with them:grin:

Online I have been bounced by an I-16 at over 7000m, realistic i doubt it but in Il2 it is possible. Your solution is to climb at least 1000ft above them and then take the turnfight to them. Early 190's handle like dogs up there

[Thunderbolt56]

As Uther said, if they (FW's) have altitude on you (AND airspeed), you're best bet is to simply let them play in their own sand box and go find easier prey. If they're marginally above you but have less airspeed, your chances are better as despite your altitude disadvantage, you may still have superior E-state. In that case you may be able to do a small zoom-climb as yuo approach closer to them and get a shot or two off before you scrub too much airspeed. Above 4,000M given mostly equal E-states, the FW holds most of the cards and if they make a mistake they can always just dive away.

[LynX_SPb]

Alt=Life. If you lose altitude advantage vs FW190, the only way you can shot him down -- head to head attack... :D You cant escape from FW190 and cant prevent FW190 from dive away from you if you would gain advantage.

Almost the only way you can shot down FW190 on Yak-1b -- if FW190 didnt noticed you and you have 1500-2000 m alt advantage, then you will have 1 or 2 possible attacks, before FW190 dive away with minor scratches in most cases.

Using best of the best Yak available -- Yak-9T greatly increases chances of success :D

[Shrike_UK]

i wouldnt go head to head against a fw190 either though, they have so many guns, is suicide.
Get alt early if you know fw's are about, or fly nap of the earth using the terrain. bnz requires a clear entry and exit, doing it near hills makes them very wary, we all seen the film 'top gun' well it happens online to bnz'ers sometimes heheh.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

The only real solution is to climb high enough that you are above them prior to combat, so you can dive to catch them.
Remember to decrease your fuel mixture to 80% or less at alts over 3500 meters, and then remember again, to increase it when you lose alt.

Unfortunately, the Yak`s are so weak structurally, that even when you have the height advantage, if the target 190 dives away, and if your dive speed exceeds about 660 km`s as you pursue, you will rip off your wings or ailerons.

This is why I hate the Yaks. Good turners and decent climb at low alt, but unless you get a German who wants to commit themselves, you are `Sh*t out of luck`.

Personally, if I had a choice, I`d fly the P-40 or P-39 in a Soviet Campaign. The P-40 especially is great against 190`s if you have the alt. It can dive with them quite handily, maneuvers well at high speeds, and outturns them too.

But if the 190 has a good AI driver, or a good human, you are doomed to frustration, since they won`t let you get above them.

[IceFire]

Tricky matchup. The best thing you can try and do as the Yak pilot is force the FW190 low and into a tight turn...but thats preying on a less experienced pilots mistake of getting into such a position. The FW190 is a hunter...anyone who has experience with it is not likely to put themselves in such a position unless they have no other options left to them.

Outnumber the FW190 or be in such a position slightly higher and faster in order to force them into a stupid move such as turning. The only thing you have going for you in a Yak-1B (or most of the Yak series) is their reasonably quick roll rate. If you do get into a rolling scissors with a FW190...this is one of the few planes that has a hope of matching it. But the speed range is allot lower for best roll rate and it may not always work in your favour.

[ADDAX]

Lots of good advice here guys...

Thanks for the tips.

One of the things about flying these fixed scenarios is that the engagement altitudes can be somewhat predetermined. For example, one mission is to take out an HE-111 recon plane cruising at about 4000m. After flying through the waypoints to intercept the bomber, even when you take it out on the 1st pass, right away 2 FW-190's show up on the scene at around 5000m.

In this case they are clearly determining when to engage... The time I finally managed to pass the mission, I did it by diving for the dirt towards my airfield as soon as I took out the recon plane. The FW-190's tailed me all they way home, taking down my wingman on the way. Once near my airfield I turned to duel them and managed to stave off about 6 or six of their passes with the aid of a lone AAA gun. Eventually I took enough stray hits from their boom and zooms that I could nolonger maneuver enough to even try to take them on. I manged to ditch my plane in almost one piece near the runway and promptly ended the mission before they could come and straff me.

Anyways, when encountering this situation in the future, I will definitly try out Shrike's switch back tactics... they're not too different from what I've been attempting in the 1st place, but hearing them explicitly spelt out like this definitly gives some perspective.