A6M Zero turn too tight?

[nic727]

Hi,

It's me or the A6M Zero turn too tight online. Is it historical, or the plane is cheated in this game.
Check that picture :

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2013/02/1358028508-a6m.png (http://www.noelshack.com/2013-02-1358028508-a6m.png)

thx to answer me :)

[fruitbat]

The zero was one if not the best turning monoplane of WW2, and in game it has realistic turn times.

Here is the turn times for the A6M2-21 vs a wildcat, without flaps.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/ScreenHunter_01Jan122216.jpg

In short, don't try to turn with zeros online.

[Bolelas]

Sorry, but here comes a silly question: is there any difference between online and offline flight models of the game?
I donk think there is, but is so much stuff i am not aware of...

And allways learning!

[fruitbat]

Sorry, but here comes a silly question: is there any difference between online and offline flight models of the game?
I donk think there is, but is so much stuff i am not aware of...

And allways learning!

No.

[IceFire]

Sorry, but here comes a silly question: is there any difference between online and offline flight models of the game?
I donk think there is, but is so much stuff i am not aware of...

And allways learning!

No difference... but in general humans tend to get the most out of the aircraft in terms of outright manoeuvring. The AI is better at engine management but humans seem to make the best out of turns.

[IceFire]

I've never had any concerns about the Zero and it's turn. Outside of the Ki-43 and Ki-27... the A6M Zero in all variants was considered an excellent turn fighter and it had almost no equal in close in fighting.

Such was the disadvantage that other fighters had that tactics had to be developed to defeat the Zero. USN pilots developed the Thach Weave to counter the Zeros incredible horizontal turn rate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

[JtD]

nic727, if you are flying as nic1 and yesterdays experiences led to this question - what you've seen yesterday is absolutely realistic A6M performance. No buggy flight model, no cheating by the players.

The wing and wingspan of the A6M are about as big as that of an F4F, but the plane is only two thirds the weight of an F4F. As the lift the wing produces has to support all the weight of the aircraft, and therefore the A6M turns very much better than the F4F.

Do you know the phrase "turn and burn"? This phrase was coined by the US pilots in the Pacific, pilots who tried to turn with an A6M would usually end up burning, because the A6M was such a good turner. What you need to do is to fly hit and run style combat, where you attack from an altitude advantage, fire at the opponent, and then run away.

This is boring when flying alone, but very efficient in team work. If the enemy is not starting to chase you, you can gain some altitude, turn around and come back for another pass. If the enemy is chasing you, your wingman has an easy target on your six.

Anyway, A6M3 vs. F4F is pretty hard for the F4F, and I'd recommend you the P-40 when you have the choice. It can't nearly take as much damage, but it is faster and can extend safely if necessary.

[Rot Bourratif]

/ScreenHunter_01Jan122216.jpg[/IMG]

In short, don't try to turn with zeros online.

This graph also shows that if you keep the fight above 390km/h you will out-turn the zero...

[JtD]

No, it shows that the Zero will fly slower to match the turn. It will fly a turn with a smaller radius, thus being and staying inside you, for a perfect firing solution. Don't try and out-turn it. Fly away, turn around outside of gun range and have another pass.

[Igo kyu]

Did the real world Hurricane turn better than the Zero? I think it does in the game.

[Pursuivant]

No, it shows that the Zero will fly slower to match the turn. It will fly a turn with a smaller radius, thus being and staying inside you, for a perfect firing solution. Don't try and out-turn it. Fly away, turn around outside of gun range and have another pass.

Of course, a competent A6M2 pilot can easily turn to face you, either spoiling your attack or turning the fight into a series of head-on passes. In the latter case, you might be limited to making quick shots at long range before taking evasive action, since those 20mm cannons on the Zero can hurt!

If you climb to try to "bounce" the Zero from above it can keep up with most planes pretty well up to about 20,000 feet/5,000 meters. At the very least it can briefly "stand on its nose" and take a quick shot at you as you come hurtling down.

Accept that a one-on-one Boom and Zoom fight against a Zero is going to be a knife fight - the winner goes to the hospital, the loser goes to the morgue.

You extend, climb and turn into make a pass. The Zero turns into your attack and you both shoot. If you're lucky, your 50 calibers set him on fire and he misses. If not, you hope that his 20 mm cannons just punch a hole in your wing rather than killing you or taking out your engine. If your engine gets hit, the game is over since you no longer have your speed and climb advantage. Dive like hell to extend your range and try to get home ASAP.

Realistically, the way to take out a Zero is the way that the U.S. Navy did it - teamwork and attrition.

[JtD]

Sure, extending and coming back gives you the head-on, but it leaves you the choice and it beats just getting shot down in a turn-fight.

You're only getting away from a 1vs1 Boom and Zoom fight unhurt if you started with a decent altitude advantage and manage it well.

[K_Freddie]

If you're in a tight spot, the Zero has a slightly lower roll rate, and this gets slower the faster you go. You can use this to your advantage. Lot's of jinking as the Zero doesn't have too much cannon ammo.
:)

[Treetop64]

Hi,

It's me or the A6M Zero turn too tight online. Is it historical, or the plane is cheated in this game.
Check that picture :

http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2013/02/1358028508-a6m.png (http://www.noelshack.com/2013-02-1358028508-a6m.png)

thx to answer me :)


Authentic troll graph is authentic.

Seriously.

[Pursuivant]

If you're in a tight spot, the Zero has a slightly lower roll rate, and this gets slower the faster you go. You can use this to your advantage. Lot's of jinking as the Zero doesn't have too much cannon ammo.
:)

And, if you have the altitude and the plane to do it, dive first to get some speed and extend, hope that the Zero chases you and then roll once their control surfaces "lock up" at high speeds.

Of course, a smart Zero pilot won't take that bait and will just take advantage of the altitude advantage you've just given him. He will orbit above you and kill you with diving attacks as you try to regain altitude. So, a diving split-S or something like it is mostly an escape technique.

If you can manage it, keep the speed in the fight high enough that the Zero's controls get stiff, limiting their maneuverability and work with a wingman.

It would be great if the IL2 AI could properly incorporate the Thatch Weave:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatch_weave

[Pursuivant]

Sure, extending and coming back gives you the head-on, but it leaves you the choice and it beats just getting shot down in a turn-fight.

You're only getting away from a 1vs1 Boom and Zoom fight unhurt if you started with a decent altitude advantage and manage it well.

Yes. 1vs1 B&Z against a maneuverable foe is one of the most challenging types of dogfighting there is. It makes the P-38's exploits in the Pacific against Zeroes and Oscars all the more impressive. (Of course, the Ki-43 Oscar is armed with popguns, I'll take a head-on attack in a P-38 vs. a Ki-43 any time.)

[K_Freddie]

I'm talking about a general 'equal terms' scenario. It's still possible to out maneuver a Zero if you keep your wits about you... no further info required ;)