Beating a dead horse

[nearmiss]

Well, after over 2 years of waiting on BOB SOW I'm thinking we are beating a dead horse.

http://www.albertlea.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/deadhorse.gif

The 4.09 Patch has never been completed.

The Birds of Prey (Console game) appears to have 16 poly aircraft over a landscape that looks like what has been promised in SOW.

I'm not going to speculate or try to run anyone aground here.

Developing a really competent Combat flight simulator is a huge task compared to putting out a console game. Everything is done when the console game is released. The controller and software that drives the game is a done deal, and whatever limitations of the console hardware and software are fixed.

I can understand a departure from a Computer based CFS that has variable issues with graphics, sound, controllers, mission builders, etc. some darned complicated stuff.

I'm hopeful there will be an SOW. Oleg has always been such a super guy about keeping everyone up to speed, but I'm thinking he's off on something else and just keeping us going with an occassional posting.

IMO, I've had a great run with the IL2 series.

We haven't had one material thing promoted to us, but words and a few graphics over the past years.

[Bobb4]

Having been around for the Harpoon 4 debacle when after almost a year of been shown work in progress screen-shots Ubisoft cancelled the project I can well understand your sceptisim.
But unlike Harpoon 4, there would be plenty of third party developers prepared to jump into the breech so to speak if Ubisoft or even 1C pulled the plug.
But do the maths when SOW was announced way back when Vista and Direct X 10 were twinkles in Microsoft's eyes. They are here now.
Multi core CPU's and mega graphic's cards from both nvidia and ati have more than quadroupled what could be done back then.
So lets say the project was close to Alpha stage just before Vista and the Geforce 8 series popped up. Well that would have made everything done up til that point obsolete.
While this is no excuse for no updates it could be a valid reason for the sudden slow-down of info.
I agree Birds of Prey looks remarkabily like the footage released on the 1946 DVD and I still have not quite got my head around the explanations given for that.
But I am sure we will get something soon. Either a "Dear John" thanking us for our loyal support and wishing us luck with 4.09 beta or some real ingame footage that will blow our socks off. I am hoping for the later.

[Skarphol]

I'm not worried about Birds of Prey taking resources from Storm of War as BOP is developed by another developer. It should not affect the progress on Storm of War.
BUT the lack of communication and information on SOW:BOB is really disturbing.
If I understand things correctly here, the reason for NOT showing any real progress on this board is that UBI is the company that controls all information. If that is so, why has the little information we have got thus far been presented here and not over at UBI?
UBI has no usefull information on SOW:BOB at all.
The purpose of this board seems more and more diffuse. This is not a "SOW:BOB" site but an "IL-2"-site. Still there is nothing on this board related to IL-2 that has not been covered over at UBIzoo.
And as far as I can remember, I'm not even sure that UBI will be the publisher of SOW:BOB. Oleg hasn't posted at UBIzoo since may 2007, and Olegs ready room is removed. There may well be some good explenation for all this, but thus far I haven't got it into my head yet.
I'm not thinking SOW:BOB is a dead horse, but all this certainly seems odd.

Skarphol

[Tree_UK]

The lack of communication and information is not just disturbing its indication that little or nothing is happening. If SOW is going to happen then i think it is a long way off. I also found the official answers we got regarding BOP difficult to believe.

[Feuerfalke]

nearmiss, the funny thing is, if you really ment what you just wrote, you wouldn't have posted it, as it is exactly what you posted you no longer want to do: Talking among ourselves.

So it's basically just another pointless thread, trying to provoke a reaction from the bada$$ developers.

And that you don't hope for a reaction or follow the thread, you can tell that to your socks.

[JG52Uther]

Why do we even bother asking about SoW in here anyway,this is the IL2 forum.And for IL2 updates,the news is not here,its at AAA.
SM79
Typhoon
Mosquito XVI
Gloster Meteor
FW190 A3
etc

[crazyivan1970]

nearmiss is out on the fishing trip...that`s new :D

[nearmiss]

nearmiss is out on the fishing trip...that`s new :D

Yeah! Fishing has it's advantages ----

[ElAurens]

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/8097/ohthehumanitylz1.jpg

[1.APU_Hubal]

There will not be any SOW and any further Oleg combat sim. I think that the problems are:

- technical (hardware & software) changes,
- too advanced expectations and criticism from the community,
- publisher/distributor money&time pressure,
- other (as always).

That all, and maybe more, drove Oleg to the decision to give up.
I wish it is not true... :-(

[ElAurens]

Hubal, you are only speculating, like all the other hand wringing whiners here.

In short sir, you are clueless.

Be sure.

[Tree_UK]

Hubal, you are only speculating, like all the other hand wringing whiners here.

In short sir, you are clueless.

Be sure.

Well i would imagine that Hubal is letting us know is views on which you clearly disagree. However unless you have some updates or news regarding SOW then i fail to see how Hubal is anymore clueless than you are. Please feel free to enlighten me.

[crazyivan1970]

Well i would imagine that Hubal is letting us know is views on which you clearly disagree. However unless you have some updates or news regarding SOW then i fail to see how Hubal is anymore clueless than you are. Please feel free to enlighten me.

Well, Oleg is not one of those people who will stop development without letting community know, be sure. A lot of people speculating, perfectly normal thing to do. As far as SOW development goes, it`s still on, moving along, full steam ahead, all go no stop...what else is out there?

[Chivas]

Anyone who has read the posts in these forums know that SOW team has been working full time on SOW since they stopped all work on IL-2, about a year ago. Most of the negative posters want the game as much as the rest of us and are just crying vapourware to elicit a response. Its still a good idea for the community to respond to these posts as it will let new people know that the game is still in production.

Oleg has stated they are still working hard on SOW.
Luthier stated they have some their SOW addon crew helping Oleg finish SOW,
Both have excellent credentials

A few posters who have nothing to do with the development and never developed a flight sim state its vapourware.

Who would you believe?

[Feuerfalke]

Actually it even goes beyond that, Chivas, as it was confirmed on this forum, that Olegs team is working more than full time on the project, according to some statement apparently on saturdays, too.

But if I realized one thing on this board, it's to not give a damn about the whiners. None of them really believes the project is abandoned. They're all just trying to provoke a strom in the fishbowl to get an official statement.

It's whining on high levels, nothing more, nothing less.

If they'd really mean it, they'd just forget about checking in more and more and that's it.

[Codex]

I can't believe the crap being splattered about here. Oleg has stopped developement!? Where has that been officially posted? Where's the proof? I think some people really need go back to chasing UFO's.

Until the big man says it himself, SoW will be published, end of story.

[SlipBall]

(quote)
I'll hang at the AAA for awhile, something is happening there now.


Just maybe, that is the reason for the long delayed release of SOW:-P

[fireflyerz]

Rubbish.

[zapatista]

i had a look again at the BoB preview addon cd that came with 1946 on the WE, i think the video was intended as an alpha stage "teaser" but it gives a good idea of the level of progress made at that time. the video was released at the end of 2006 iirc, and by all indications at that point their development team was still in full swing to try and get BoB out the door soon and they were making good progress. early screenshots of BoB work in progress were even posted as early as dec 2005 (see this thread for a good summary of all earlier screenshots posted on BoB work by olegs crew http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7871043264/m/4641029783). we had further indications progress was still continuing in late 2006 that oleg was promoting BoB previews at a couple of aviation/game fairs (remember the old puma video interview with oleg).

after that there was a long long period of total silence, completely unexplained, and the removal of olegs room at ubi

in oct 2007 the !C il2 forum was opened, and on 10-15-2007 oleg showed signs of life again, and posted here
Here we begin to post development news of BoB.... some time, but not so rare... I hope once per 2-3 weeks or so .... and more close to beta - each week like in old good time with IL-2
on dec 21 2007 oleg posted at simhq New constant BoB development updates and posted a url link pointing to this forum

we then once a month for 3 or 4 months get a few aircraft WIP screenshots and oleg answering some questions (great, news at last and signs it is still being worked on !). the answers given are however very general and indicate a lot of issues are still undecided and open ended, almost as you would have expected from a sim still in alpha stage, but this is now more then 2 years after we already had extensive alpha previews from his older interviews, and the "1946 cd addon video" previewing BoB. the screenshots posted in 2008 are also still only a few closups of WiP aircraft with generic blue backgrounds (yes nice looking aircarft, i aint complaining about them, why you'd want to be working on obscure italian aircraft in a way overdue BoB sim is another question).

then without reason again total silence from feb 2008 for 3 months and our active forum moderator disappears at the same time.

we then get sudden news from 3e party sources that il2 is about to be released for consoles, and the preview press release specifically mentions the BoB era, and shows BoB scenery that is very similar to olegs nov 2006 preview video. the sim also is very advanced and has a release date and preview video's and press reviews. predictably pandemonium breaks out in the main il2 forums and long term oleg supporters start jumping out of windows.

a couple of brief post from oleg then follow attempting to reassure some of the fans there is still a BoB pc sim in the works, but the only new screenshots posted at the same time to indicate "work is proceeding as usual" are again only a few WiP closeups from aircraft with blue background screens (indicating they are 3D models in a graphic editor program, not a near finished object flying in a 3D world), worse, those models arnt even WiP from olegs team himself but are made by another group working on their own sim project (yes, we'll all be happy with the new korean sim, dont get me wrong). in a worst case scenario, those same aircraft models could even be used for the console games and might have nothing to do with the pc project we are waiting for.

now again almost 3 months of total silence and no signs of life or "New constant BoB development "

forgive some of us for being slightly skeptical the pc project is proceeding at a normal pace and is still on track, or that some of us now doubt it will happen at all.

[1.APU_Hubal]

Words..., any evidences for progress (or just blue screens and 3D models)?

Everybody are tired, everybody want to fly new sim.
I wish Oleg all the best, but I am hopless in this case.
Just that. Sorry.

The worst thing is that probably many of the 3D models were design for this console bloody thing, not for PC sim. Maybe not at the begining, but later.
I think that the idea of SoW: BOB evolved to the console game becouse of many reasons. That is it.

Please make me change my mind, please.

[JoeA]

(quote)
I'll hang at the AAA for awhile, something is happening there now.


Just maybe, that is the reason for the long delayed release of SOW:-P

Who knows? ;)

[JG52Uther]

You know Zapatista,we have had our differences (;) ) but your post pretty much sums it up for me.

[Tree_UK]

You know Zapatista,we have had our differences (;) ) but your post pretty much sums it up for me.

Me too, but hey we are just whiners.:)

[mondo]

Oleg doesn't post here any more because he gets the same reception that he used to get in ORR. Doesn't suprise me and I don't blame him.



A few posters who have nothing to do with the development and never developed a flight sim state its vapourware.

Exactly! Some people have absolutely no idea about the money, time and manpower needed to make a computer game or how the developing and publishing industry works then they come to forums speaking like they do have some idea.

Even 2 years to develop a bespoke physics and graphics engine, associated developers tools and populating that with models and enviroments is extremely ambitious and takes a team in excess of 100 experianced staff. I can say that with some experiance.

W

The worst thing is that probably many of the 3D models were design for this console bloody thing, not for PC sim. Maybe not at the begining, but later.
I think that the idea of SoW: BOB evolved to the console game becouse of many reasons. That is it.

Please make me change my mind, please.

Don't take this like I don't like you but do you read news posts or just fishing and rumour posts? The console game just uses some exisiting resources provided by Oleg and Co. Do you also know that the Xbox 360 and PC are pretty damn similar and even if 3D models were made for a 360 game it wouldn't mean they wouldn't be able to be used in a PC game or vice versa?

[1.APU_Hubal]

It does not matter for me.

I want clear and official information WHEN will it be published!
Can you answer? Convince me!

Show me the movie, show me the the printscreens, give me the sound of engine, give me alpha testing comments, show me ...

As Cuba Gooding Jr. - "Show me the money!!!" (Jerry Maguire).

I want to feel that it's coming!!! Nothing more.

[csThor]

Don't you guys have a real life? Jeez! :roll:

[robtek]

@ csThor

+1

[brando]

I concur. Where else do you see people whining for what they want and feel they must have as though it is some sort of a God-given right?

I'm going to stick with the comforting old phrase, "no news is good news" and enjoy what I've got now - namely the best WW2 combat flight sim around.

What I'm not going to do is subscribe to some conspiracy theory that has no basis in hard facts.

B

[proton45]

OK enough silly stuff...I have an idea that might get lost in the depths of my meandering, but why doesn't someone start a nice dignified and democratic petition. We could start a petition in which we demonstrate how many of us would like to see regular visits from the development team. Wouldn't it be great to get regular little notes from Oleg, the modelers, de-buggers, artists, ect...(I know, I know...its been said)

It would be a lot more productive starting a petition then ranting, stomping around and storming off into the sunset... we might not get an official answer, and it might not do any good...but the numbers could make a solid statement.

[mondo]

It does not matter for me.

I want clear and official information WHEN will it be published!
Can you answer? Convince me!

Show me the movie, show me the the printscreens, give me the sound of engine, give me alpha testing comments, show me ...

As Cuba Gooding Jr. - "Show me the money!!!" (Jerry Maguire).

I want to feel that it's coming!!! Nothing more.

Er you saw the DVD that came with Il2 46 right? You've seen the screen shots on this very forum right? You've read Olegs comments right?

[1.APU_Hubal]

Il2 Sturmovik is the best, but it is not a masterpiece.
It is not just graphics what do we expect.

But all expectations are a piece of s... if there is not any SoW any more.

"Now news is a bad news" - the media credo!

[Tvrdi]

Well, Oleg is not one of those people who will stop development without letting community know, be sure.

true, but admit, thers no such developer who cant find 5 mins to write ONE post about development in 2-3 months....and what about PR guy? 1C PR guy, is he there? he should find 5 mins to post something...theyr not serious if they dont have a PR guy...or whoever to post updates here...Oleg got us with IL2, yes....but we are "horny bride" and hes "lucky" that (for now) he dont have a real competition...

[Thunderbolt56]

1:C's PR has been non extant for the last year in general. BoB is still progressing. I'd tell you more, but then CrazyIvan's SMERSH goons would have me...er...brought in.

In the meantime, finish that last level of COD4, buy a PS3 (I just got one and am having a blast with the silly thing), go to the beach and look at scantily clad women and wait.

[Tree_UK]

Oleg doesn't post here any more because he gets the same reception that he used to get in ORR. Doesn't suprise me and I don't blame him.

How do you know that Oleg fails to post here because some people have made comments about the very poor communication from Oleg and crew, has he told you this or are you just perhaps making it up?

[crazyivan1970]

true, but admit, thers no such developer who cant find 5 mins to write ONE post about development in 2-3 months....and what about PR guy? 1C PR guy, is he there? he should find 5 mins to post something...theyr not serious if they dont have a PR guy...or whoever to post updates here...Oleg got us with IL2, yes....but we are "horny bride" and hes "lucky" that (for now) he dont have a real competition...

Once again... what we had with IL2 was truly unique, but you are forgetting most important part, such dialog between developers and community is only possible with participation and blessing from the publishers. No developer under obligations of the contract will step forward and start advertising his product... I am afraid this is the one part that is missing.

Other thoughts...IL2 took 4 years to develop, before initial release, maybe more then that.... I think it started in 1997 and saw the day light in 2001. SOW is by far more complex and advanced in all areas, things that use to take couple of weeks, now take several months...You cannot really compare the two. Bottom line is, Nobody in the know (and i said that before) ever gave you any concrete ETA for SOW. There were speculations and some rather silly anouncements, but nothing more. Oleg did say that they are trying to meet some dates, but he never said that he will. And once again, let the console game go already, has nothing to do with Maddox. 1c licensed out IL2 engine and other team completed it, yea Oleg tried it, gave them his opinion and that`s that. Why you folks keep bringing that up? How many times it needs to be said...those are not SOW objects, it is not MG work... i mean, come on!! :D

[Mango]

CrazyIvan, it's like going to church every Sunday. We need to hear you preach the good word and reassurances about SoW, even though we've heard it all before. ;)

[crazyivan1970]

I just dont want people to get ideas that everything died, Mango. I will ask for an update, no promises tho..

[Skarphol]

This reminds me of the lyrics of an old 10cc-song: "Communication is the problem to your answer.."
All of these more or less camouflaged whining-threads would be gone in a flash if Oleg or someone in the 'know' would drop by and post a few lines a little more often!
Luthiers post from Olegs home in early june was good enough for most of us.

But on the other hand, without the whining-threads this forum would be very inactive..


Skarphol

[Chivas]

OK enough silly stuff...I have an idea that might get lost in the depths of my meandering, but why doesn't someone start a nice dignified and democratic petition. We could start a petition in which we demonstrate how many of us would like to see regular visits from the development team. Wouldn't it be great to get regular little notes from Oleg, the modelers, de-buggers, artists, ect...(I know, I know...its been said)

It would be a lot more productive starting a petition then ranting, stomping around and storming off into the sunset... we might not get an official answer, and it might not do any good...but the numbers could make a solid statement.

The only problem with idea is everyone including Oleg knows the outcome of the petition. We all want more updates! As Ivan, Oleg, and Luthier have said its more complicated than just popping in here a giving us an hour of their time. I'm sure there is more than one reason and none of them entail just wanting to piss us off.

[Anton Yudintsev]

I'm not worried about Birds of Prey taking resources from Storm of War as BOP is developed by another developer.

Guys!
I am a little bit tired telling one same thing over and over again.
There is no content from SoW neither from Il-2 in Birds of Prey game.
NO. ANY. CONTENT.

[crazyivan1970]

Guys!
I am a little bit tired telling one same thing over and over again.
There is no content from SoW neither from Il-2 in Birds of Prey game.
NO. ANY. CONTENT.

Nothing will ever change Anton :D

[Chivas]

This is good heads up Anton on what you'll see when you open your BOP site. You just need to pop in every few months to let the adults know that the develpment is progressing fine and ignore the rest of the rhetoric.

[proton45]

The only problem with idea is everyone including Oleg knows the outcome of the petition. We all want more updates! As Ivan, Oleg, and Luthier have said its more complicated than just popping in here a giving us an hour of their time. I'm sure there is more than one reason and none of them entail just wanting to piss us off.


LoL...

I never thought that the lack up-dates was due to anyone wanting to piss anyone off... in fact I'm not really that upset about the lack of up-dates. Yes, I would love some more information on "BoB SoW" (like everyone) but I'm not freaking out...

The idea of a petition was just me trying to suggest a constructive direction for all the negative psychic energy that seems to be floating around in here... the idea of a petition seemed like a nice alternative to the modus operandi, of "getting everyone stirred up, excited, upset, or suicidal"...and then Oleg (or crazyivan1970_LOL) has to come in sooth all the ruffled feathers.

I thought it might be a little more impressive to see a list of 17 names (LOL) in a petition then it is to read the manifesto of a troll who wants to be known as the forum participant who's heart was broken by Oleg...

[nearmiss]

Guns and Roses.... Dead Horse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxGejqxN2WY

:cool:

[Chivas]

Sorry Proton...I didn't mean to suggest you personally were upset....

[mondo]

How do you know that Oleg fails to post here because some people have made comments about the very poor communication from Oleg and crew, has he told you this or are you just perhaps making it up?

Of cause he hasn't told me! Going by past experiance it doesn't take much to work it out though.

[Tree_UK]

Of cause he hasn't told me! Going by past experiance it doesn't take much to work it out though.

Ok so we have established that what you are saying is not fact. However what is fact is that the communication from Oleg and team is poor.

[Robert]

Ok so we have established that what you are saying is not fact. However what is fact is that the communication from Oleg and team is poor.


Depends how you look at it Tree. If there is something to communicate and we're not receiving the information then communication would be lacking or poor. Right now there's probably not a lot to show, display or explain to us that would make sense or be interesting in a forum (we won't even go into the whole publisher's rights malarky).


If we could see something I'd enjoy seeing the lighting effects like the ones displayed for KotS on the Fokker some months ago. Wouldn't it be great to see a canopy strut's shadow cross over the cockpit interior..... or how about the light reflecting on the metal parts of the Hurricaine, but be matted out by the wooden and canvas parts?


It'll come. Info may be slow (okay it IS slow) but we'll get more. I won't even attempt to prognosticate when.

[crazyivan1970]

However what is fact is that the communication from Oleg and team is poor.

Maybe communication between publishers and us is poor, eh? :)

[JoeA]

Maybe communication between publishers and us is poor, eh? :)

Hmm interesting point.

[BLR_Tonin_fr]

that IS the point.

[nearmiss]

Looks like a dead horse to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPoBy5VLA4

[proton45]

Looks like a dead horse to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPoBy5VLA4


Wait a minute...I'm sensing a theme here... :)

[mondo]

Ok so we have established that what you are saying is not fact. However what is fact is that the communication from Oleg and team is poor.

I never said it was fact. Lets call it circumstantial evidence. Your a member of Ubi Zoo right? Then you should agree?

[Skoshi Tiger]

I guess the lack of information on development could be relate to the way UBI soft has been shafted by its "Fans".

I was astounded by the level of piracy in other titles. I read an article about Assassins Creed. (http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?CIID=119232). Apparently the PC version only sold 40,000 copies but a buggy 'leaked' was downloaded 700,000 times!!!!!!

I bought a copy of that game and am still playing my way through. Compared with the XBox version, the PC has a huge improvement in graphics.

Basically with statistics like that it's a miracle that PC versions of software can still be created. I know If I was UBISoft i'ld tell the lot of us PC gamers to get shafted and go for the big $$$ on the console games, or make us pay for hardware 'keys' and online verifcation every time we play! How about charging us a monthly fee like world of warcraft????

[JoeA]

I agree 100% Skoshi.

[Golf Pro]

I guess the lack of information on development could be relate to the way UBI soft has been shafted by its "Fans".

I was astounded by the level of piracy in other titles. I read an article about Assassins Creed. (http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?CIID=119232). Apparently the PC version only sold 40,000 copies but a buggy 'leaked' was downloaded 700,000 times!!!!!!

I bought a copy of that game and am still playing my way through. Compared with the XBox version, the PC has a huge improvement in graphics.

Basically with statistics like that it's a miracle that PC versions of software can still be created. I know If I was UBISoft i'ld tell the lot of us PC gamers to get shafted and go for the big $$$ on the console games, or make us pay for hardware 'keys' and online verifcation every time we play! How about charging us a monthly fee like world of warcraft????

Yeah, but on the other hand, I would have been perfectly happy to pay for a lot more IL-2 add-ons, especially if they featured new theatres (med, BOB etc.), and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I think there was a lot more money-making potential in IL-2 than was ever exploited. Really, I think 1c probably only did a quarter of what Il-2 was capable of. And now it's all going to be done over at AAA without Ubi getting a penny.

[ElAurens]

One little problem with your theory Golf Pro. The IL2 game engine is outdated. No matter how good (or sometimes how bad) the stuff from the modders is, it will pale when compared to the new engine.

These was no reason on earth for Maddox Games to continue development of any updates using the old game engine.

Once SOW is revealed in it's entirety IL2 will look pretty darn dated, because it is.

[Golf Pro]

Outdated compared to what, exactly? Whether it is "current" or "outdated" is in your (or my) head. If people are prepared to pay money for it, it isn't outdated, no matter when it was originally coded.

The reasons for MG to continue to develop the old engine was to make money. I suspect, however, that Oleg is more of an aeronautical physicist than businessman, and there was no fun left in the old engine for him to do his tweaking - that's why the engine has been declared "outdated", and a new one declared necessary.

I hope SoW gets finished, and I hope it does make Il-2 pale. But that doesn't mean that Il-2 was stretched to its greatest commercial or technical limits. Because it simply wasn't.

[Shrike_UK]

Looks like a dead horse to me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPoBy5VLA4

Well the dead horse is beating them, they arent beating a dead horse.

[Chivas]

Piracy is the biggest threat to our hobby. It will kill the golden goose. Even Modding is a form of Piracy that can effect the bottom line and make developers think twice before staying in the market. For the first time yesterday I'd seen some modded terrain screenshots that peeked my interest. Before those particular screenshots, I wasn't concerned that there was any competition what-so-ever.

So it does mildly concern me reading statements from the community like "And now it's all going to be done over at AAA without Ubi getting a penny." It could be a factor with the huge lose in revenue from CD piracy that the developer may also have compete in any small way with his own product.

The modders wouldn't have been able to come close to improving combat flight sims without using Oleg's software. The mods of EAW, CFS, and BOB are proof of that. The mods of IL-2 are starting to look great for the community in the short term, but I have concerns that it could stagnate combat flight sims in the long term.

The community should be OK for the next few years as I can't see the SOW series being cancelled at this point. BUT if CD piracy is rampant, even a small loss of revenue competing with their own game could tip the balance. Future addons to the SOW series could be seriously affected, except for some mods. Oleg was a member of our community who thought he could make a better product. This community may have to wait along time before another member comes along with total skill set to develop another benchmark combat flight sim.

Hopefully the developers will be able to control the loss of revenue due to CD piracy so that any small lose of revenue due to modders won't be a factor.

[Golf Pro]

I don't know really, I think the whole modding thing is either a threat or an opportunity depending on how you respond to it. Yes, it could compete with the original product, but on the other hand it does encourage people to buy the original product (if only to use the mods) and it shows what could have been done with the original product. I hope the mods have encouraged more sales of 1946 (so Ubi does get a few extra pennies) but I also think that a e.g. BoB scenario using the Il-2 engine would have made mucho dinero for 1c without the huge effort of SoW. It wouldn't have been as good, obviously, but it would have kept the community occupied while work for SoW went on in the background.

This is all spilt milk, we are where we are etc. But really, I think Oleg should sometimes get less obsessed with state-of-the-art physics models, and see the potential of other areas of his sims, such as maps, textures, ground objects, skins etc. etc. There is much more "stretch" in these than he perhaps thinks. His basic work is so good, he could do a lot more with it than he perhaps thinks.

[nearmiss]

Beating a dead horse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRc5EbeDC6o

[Jaws2002]

More fuel on the fire.

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/news/1c-announces-games-convention-2008-lineup (http://www.1cpublishing.eu/news/1c-announces-games-convention-2008-lineup) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif





<- Sitting in a corner waching the panicking mob going crazy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

[Chivas]

"This is all spilt milk, we are where we are etc. But really, I think Oleg should sometimes get less obsessed with state-of-the-art physics models, and see the potential of other areas of his sims, such as maps, textures, ground objects, skins etc. etc. There is much more "stretch" in these than he perhaps thinks. His basic work is so good, he could do a lot more with it than he perhaps thinks."

Its very easy to improve the work of others and not have the many constraints the original developer had to work under at the time. It would be easy for the developer to rework and tweak the IL-2 engine and made a few people happy. I would guess the majority of combat flights simmers/modders are happy he didn't take the easy way out, so we could have a next generation sim that can be improved over the next 10-15 years.

[Chivas]

More fuel on the fire.

http://http://www.1cpublishing.eu/news/1c-announces-games-convention-2008-lineup http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif





<- Sitting in a corner waching the panicking mob going crazy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


As far as we know UBI is still the puplisher of SOW so it won't be IC's game to display at Liepzig.

[flyingbullseye]

Jaws, the link is dead.

[lbuchele]

Let´s think a little about other types of simulators.
GT4 , from Polyphony Digital,is cooking for 4 years, and will need 1 year aditional to see the sun´s light
The lead developer stated that each car model takes 180 days to be completed, and the game have a thousand ( 2 weeks in the previous gen, GT3)
And this in a console game who made huge amounts of money to sony.
My point is:every generation of sims will take much more pain and time to born, there is nothing we can do about that , only wait, and then wait a little more.
We could see this game faster , if the market accepted to pay US 150 for copy, but I doubt this will happens.
So, until SOW arrives , and it will, I continue to play Il2, because it´s a great game and I will buy Birds of Prey, to support the genre and because I´m very curious about it.

[Jaws2002]

Jaws, the link is dead.

fixed.:twisted:

[JG52Uther]

As far as we know UBI is still the puplisher of SOW so it won't be IC's game to display at Liepzig.



As far as we know UBI is still the publisher of SOW ...in the west... so it won't be IC's game to display at Liepzig


I thought 1C is the Russian publisher?

[JG52Uther]

Isn't it strange that at this supposed late stage we don't even have confirmation of the publishers of SoW?

Hearsay yes,confirmation by somebody from 1C,no.

[Chivas]

As far as we know UBI is still the publisher of SOW ...in the west... so it won't be IC's game to display at Liepzig


I thought 1C is the Russian publisher?

Yes JG52Uther...I think your right...but Liepzig isn't in Russia. I think the line might be drawn between Western and Eastern Europe, but not sure. I doubt IC can advertize games in UBI territory, and SOW is not likely to be out at the end of the year if UBI doesn't advertise it Liepzig.

edit...doh...why would IC advertise a game that can't sell in Western Europe. ;)

[ChosenOne]

And now it's all going to be done over at AAA without Ubi getting a penny.
Sorry.
What the "AAA" you are all talking about?!! :rolleyes:

[jermin]

One little problem with your theory Golf Pro. The IL2 game engine is outdated. No matter how good (or sometimes how bad) the stuff from the modders is, it will pale when compared to the new engine.

These was no reason on earth for Maddox Games to continue development of any updates using the old game engine.

Once SOW is revealed in it's entirety IL2 will look pretty darn dated, because it is.

IIRC, KoTS and BOP are both developed from the "outdated" IL2 engine. But those games are no where near the outdated. Go play with some MODs, you'll find IL2 has a huge potential. Take the cloud size mod for example, the size of clouds is only controled by a number in a text file. It won't take much time to change it. But it improves the immersion dramatically. The texture of maps is also controled by one small text file. Just replacing some variables may bring us to a brand-new world. I can't say the new IL2 will outperform BoB. But I'm sure it is good enough to make a great deal of money in a very short time.

[Chivas]

IIRC, KoTS and BOP are both developed from the "outdated" IL2 engine. But those games are no where near the outdated. Go play with some MODs, you'll find IL2 has a huge potential. Take the cloud size mod for example, the size of clouds is only controled by a number in a text file. It won't take much time to change it. But it improves the immersion dramatically. The texture of maps is also controled by one small text file. Just replacing some variables may bring us to a brand-new world. I can't say the new IL2 will outperform BoB. But I'm sure it is good enough to make a great deal of money in a very short time.


KOTS dropped the IL-2 engine and are developing their own more advanced engine. Apparently BOP only used some of the IL-2 FM and also use their own engine. I don't know what IIRC is, but since you got the rest wrong, I doubt it uses the IL-2 engine either.

[Robert]

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly.


As far as 1C selling add ons. While it sounds good I think it is a limited appeal. The only folks that would buy the add ons would be folks who already have IL2. I can imagine the confusion on forums from newbies asking if they bought the correct add on, or which version of IL2 they need. We've all seen that, and it's inordinately frustrating for the newb to find out he bought IL2 FB/PF, but doesn't have AEP. So now he can't upgrade at all. Can you imagine the confusion with all the different versions availible now being even further muddied with addons? I doubt the effort would be as sucessful as hoped. (I'd love to be wrong)

Say he went 3rd party on us to make more money, and thus spend more time and capital on BoB. Would he release the FMs he's working of for BoB? Remember we've been 'experimenting with BoB FMs' since patch 4.01. Sure there are nondisclosure clauses, but we've all seen leaked patches. I doubt it would be different for FMs. I have no doubt that were Oleg to have done this the chances of the FMs being illegally disseminated would have been high. Even if it's a small risk it wouldn't be worth it.

As much chagrin I have toward the hack I think it's the only path open for 'continued developement' to IL2.

[jermin]

KOTS dropped the IL-2 engine and are developing their own more advanced engine. Apparently BOP only used some of the IL-2 FM and also use their own engine. I don't know what IIRC is, but since you got the rest wrong, I doubt it uses the IL-2 engine either.

As for the KOTS, my source is they updated the il2 engine, instead of building a new one from scratch. The following words are form Anton Yudintsev, the head of Gaijin Entertainment, developer of "IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey":

"What we've asked for (and what we recieved) was the source code of Il-2 (flight model and AI)."

FM and AI may seem like small parts of a flight sim engine at a glance. But they takes far more time and human power to biuild than all the other parts because they are the core technology of a flight sim. Without them, IL2 wouldn't have been so popular even if it had ground-breaking graphics at that time. And you can't deny the FM of IL2 was the best among all the flight sim in the market.

[crazyivan1970]

@jermin

KOTS is on the different engine... they didnt use IL2 engine
BOP is console game, it does not require all the bells and whisles of flight sim, even tho it comes very close to flight simulation in many areas, based on what i read.

[Chivas]

From Anton

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingbullseye
Been trolling awhile and finally had to register. Still having a hard time believing that its the IL2 engine because wow absolutely stunning! Great job there devs.

Guys, once again, it is NOT IL-2 engine. It is our own Dagor Engine 3.0 (next-gen edition).

You may be right about the AI jermin, but I just remember him saying he only used parts of the FM.

[proton45]

As for the KOTS, my source is they updated the il2 engine, instead of building a new one from scratch. The following words are form Anton Yudintsev, the head of Gaijin Entertainment, developer of "IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey":

"What we've asked for (and what we recieved) was the source code of Il-2 (flight model and AI)."

FM and AI may seem like small parts of a flight sim engine at a glance. But they takes far more time and human power to biuild than all the other parts because they are the core technology of a flight sim. Without them, IL2 wouldn't have been so popular even if it had ground-breaking graphics at that time. And you can't deny the FM of IL2 was the best among all the flight sim in the market.


Sometimes I feel like I'm in the "Twilight Zone"... It seems like just yesterday (like before the mods came out) that I was reading thread after thread about how "outdated" the "IL2 1946" FM & AI where... :)

[JG52Uther]

Yes JG52Uther...I think your right...but Liepzig isn't in Russia. I think the line might be drawn between Western and Eastern Europe, but not sure. I doubt IC can advertize games in UBI territory, and SOW is not likely to be out at the end of the year if UBI doesn't advertise it Liepzig.

edit...doh...why would IC advertise a game that can't sell in Western Europe. ;)


And why wouldn't 1C advertise a game they CAN sell in Eastern Europe?

[Tree_UK]

I think the obvious answer is that the game is a looooong way off. I still think i am closest with a 2010 release date.

[crazyivan1970]

I think the obvious answer is that the game is a looooong way off. I still think i am closest with a 2010 release date.

I wouldnt go that far :) But it`s deffinitely not this christmas

[Oktoberfest]

I say 2010 and not before. It's impossible they get it before. I just hope it won't be Xmas 2010.

[Chivas]

And why wouldn't 1C advertise a game they CAN sell in Eastern Europe?

Liepzig is in Germany not Russia and probably part of the UBI publishing/advertising/ distribution area. IC probably only has distribution/publishing/advertising in Russia.

[JG52Uther]

Well they do have shows in Russia as well you know and theres no sign of it there either.

[nearmiss]

All these authoritarians on the forums boards that write postings in an officious manner. They present themselves to be insiders and know something all the rest of us do not, and all we dummies had better listen up.

They're as bad as the crazy dudes that dress up and act like policemen. The kind that ride around in automobiles that they have fixed up to look like police cars and look for people to harrass. These kinda dudes are basically nuts.

These types of people frequent forums.

I think there are more than a few of them hanging around forums than we know. They suspiciously profess their insider status, but have no legitimate credentials.

If they are on the up and up they would do well to tell us just who the heck they are and who/what gives them the authority to present themselves that way.

Being a moderator isn't a credential, nor does it make the moderator an insider as a rule.

I've been a moderator on forums and didn't know zip about what the principals that owned the sites were up to.

Sorry, one of those little chirpy postings with all the things we gonna do and some airplane pictures isn't going to cut it.

It's time to get the horse outta the barn and show us the darned thing is alive, and viable, or quit making fools out of the community and declare the truth of it.

"the horse is dead, BOB SOW that is"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK9lvc0wTMk

[Tvrdi]

Well they do have shows in Russia as well you know and theres no sign of it there either.

correct....you can see at Galax page that 1C and Oleg himself are often in RU at shows but no SOW news....nothing...zero....ništa...rien...ниче го

[Golf Pro]

Sorry.
What the "AAA" you are all talking about?!! :rolleyes:

You are Oleg in disguise, and I claim my £5.

[crazyivan1970]

An annoyance...

[/B][/COLOR]

Just curious, who are you referring to?

[SlipBall]

I wouldnt go that far :) But it`s deffinitely not this christmas



Good then it is 2009...thanks Ivan:-P

[Shrike_UK]

As far as i remember, I think it was said years ago, Oleg is an ex Russian Military Aeronautical Engineer, if thats true, then thats why he takes pride in is accuracy of FMs, which of course takes time for perfection. So i dont doubt for a minute that he would do a poor console port to pc, or anything else that would tarnish his immaculate reputation.
Take a look at the amount of time he spent between updates, 3 months, but the post is short, and he didnt appologise for that. That in itself tells me he is working his balls off, and is feeling, like any scientific person, that he's owed a little respect for his pain. im sure he will be back with another update soon. I can imagine there are many issues to organise, such as, will UBI be the publisher, what security mechanisms are required.

On the other hand, One thing the community and modders need to be aware of, is the fact that if these modders insist on being incontent and disrespectful by cracking his software, and alterring it, changing sounds etc... then its hardly surprising Oleg would be angry, and more than likely decide to screw the community, as the community screwed him by messing with his product. So, you get a little PSP or Nintendo Wii version of IL2 next, and you can use a wii wand instead of a HOTAS. How you like that?

Also, there are 2-3 other flight sims being released (probably) in the next 6-9 months. Whether there is some strategy hes employing as to timely release, we wont know till it happens i guess.

[nearmiss]

On the other hand, One thing the community and modders need to be aware of, is the fact that if these modders insist on being incontent and disrespectful by cracking his software, and alterring it, changing sounds etc... then its hardly surprising Oleg would be angry, and more than likely decide to screw the community, as the community screwed him by messing with his product. So, you get a little PSP or Nintendo Wii version of IL2 next, and you can use a wii wand instead of a HOTAS. How you like that?

Also, there are 2-3 other flight sims being released (probably) in the next 6-9 months. Whether there is some strategy hes employing as to timely release, we wont know till it happens i guess.

You need to remember nobody cracked anything since 2000. Oleg has had carte blanche treatment, like no other developer I'm aware. That is, as far as messing with any part of his sacred code. For years, we've been dependent on favored insiders to produce maps for IL2. The maps we now can acquire at AAA are better than every IL2 map, except Slovakia.

This whole community has been messed over for the past 2+ years. The 4.09patch is a good example. No one messed with anything until they started gettting messed over.

MARK THESE WORDS
Console air combat game like IL2 will NEVER be successful.


Several reasons... The kids that play the Console games are interested in very fast action, little strategy tweaks, and lots of noise, monster explosions, lots of hacking, pounding and shooting. Console game playes want incredible stuff at fast and furious speeds. They sure aren't going to be interested to perfect air combat flying skills to nail a tough realsitic enemy flight and damage model aircraft. Console game players have their little efficient controller secured between their little jam cover fingers and they're giving what for to what's it. LOL

PC developers of Complex games like the IL2 Sturmovik have got to figure ways to protect their software from piracy. If they can't find a way to do that large numbers of thieves will certainly bootleg. The immersion is the big thing with a Combat Flight Sim like IL2, the joystick, the throttle, the pedals, the sound, the track IR. Users experience a game like IL2... they don't play it.

The Il2 Sturmovik - Birds of Prey console game will flop

If you play the Trailer for Birds of Prey... the map area is Britain and the aircraft are 16 polys. These are things Oleg was presenting to start with about the BOB SOW. I conclude, He got diverted and that's what he's spent his time on.

Too bad, the BOB SOW is dead.

If you think you're supporting the IL2 community by buying a console game like Birds of Prey you are wrong. You're just pushing us further from competent PC based Combat flight siml like the BOB SOW would have been.

[Shrike_UK]

thanks for correcting me where i needed it nearmiss.

question: was the last update he did 16 poly a/cs? is Avro Ansen in that console game?

yes agree with you. i dont know a single person who is even thinking of buying a ps3 or xbox. even though they have all owned ps2, me included.

[crazyivan1970]

nearmiss, i am not sure what happened to you lately... but i am bit suprized on how you present things. You sound like you know a lot about IL-2 development...BOP development...even SOW developement... I came to the conclusion...you are either in the major fishing trip or...you are Oleg under cover...which one is it? :D

[ElAurens]

thanks for correcting me where i needed it nearmiss.

question: was the last update he did 16 poly a/cs? is Avro Ansen in that console game?



How many times do you guys have to be told that the console game is not Oleg's? All he supplied was the IL2 engine, nothing else. No models, no maps, no content of any kind.

Do any of you ever read any posts here for comprehension? Are you even capable of it?

And quit the childish whining about 4.09. Spamming the forums with your schoolyard bully tone only makes you look like fools, and will not get you a patch any quicker.

In short, grow up.

:evil:

[nearmiss]

How many times do you guys have to be told that the console game is not Oleg's? All he supplied was the IL2 engine, nothing else. No models, no maps, no content of any kind.



That's a bold and cruel put down.

How about you corroborate what you just said?

A few links to legitimate sites would certainly be a good start. Forum postings by other users would NOT be a good referral.

I look at the Birds of Prey aircraft and they sure as heck look like 16 poly we were shown for SOW. I've also seen SOW landscape renders that look like those I see in the Birds of Prey. In fact, those renders in the Birds of Prey sure look like the English countryside.

I may be seeing more detail than others. I do have a new system with an 8800 512MB overclocked GTS Video card.

[Chivas]

That's a bold and cruel put down.

How about you corroborate what you just said?

A few links to legitimate sites would certainly be a good start. Forum postings by other users would NOT be a good referral.

I look at the Birds of Prey aircraft and they sure as heck look like 16 poly we were shown for SOW. I've also seen SOW landscape renders that look like those I see in the Birds of Prey. In fact, those renders in the Birds of Prey sure look like the English countryside.

I may be seeing more detail than others. I do have a new system with an 8800 512MB overclocked GTS Video card.


Check out this High Definition movie of BOP

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=3544&page=6

Quotes from Anton Yudintsev ....answers community questions
CEO&President of Gaijin Entertainment
Developer of BOP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*
My understanding from Olegs comment is the engine was developed from IL-2. Is this not correct? Is it completely new code or does the engine use IL-2 as the basis?

It is completely new code and it is not even evolution of IL-2. Only Flight Model is from original IL-2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingbullseye
Been trolling awhile and finally had to register. Still having a hard time believing that its the IL2 engine because wow absolutely stunning! Great job there devs.

Guys, once again, it is NOT IL-2 engine. It is our own Dagor Engine 3.0 (next-gen edition).

08-12-2008, 07:46 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarphol
I'm not worried about Birds of Prey taking resources from Storm of War as BOP is developed by another developer.

Guys!
I am a little bit tired telling one same thing over and over again.
There is no content from SoW neither from Il-2 in Birds of Prey game.
NO. ANY. CONTENT.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Anton Yudintsev : 08-12-2008 at 07:53 PM.

07-02-2008, 08:43 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


07-04-2008, 07:05 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiola
Its the IL2 engine.

It is not. Please, do not confuse others.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMF-214_HaVoK
Dagor Engine 3.0 (next-gen edition).

Aha.
It is not Il-2 Engine. So BoP's quality doesn't tell anything about SoW either.

07-05-2008, 03:08 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

07-03-2008, 12:28 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDNT
If this can be done just with a modified Il2 render engine

It can't

07-03-2008, 12:26 PM
Anton Yudintsev
Member Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 31

[Chivas]

BOP may not be successfull but I know I would buy an xbox to try it out if it comes out before SOW.

That HD movie of BOP looks awesome. Looks like some Mediterraenen terrain.
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=3544&page=6

[_ITAF_UgoRipley]

Maybe all those "quotes" by Anton Yudintsev in Chivas' post #98 should be stickied at the top of the forum once and for all.

[ElAurens]

Great idea.

;)


And nearmiss, please, A: learn to read, and B: grow up.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Chivas, thanks for the quotes, and the clarification on the engine/FM thing.

[proton45]

You need to remember nobody cracked anything since 2000. Oleg has had carte blanche treatment, like no other developer I'm aware. That is, as far as messing with any part of his sacred code. For years, we've been dependent on favored insiders to produce maps for IL2. The maps we now can acquire at AAA are better than every IL2 map, except Slovakia.

This whole community has been messed over for the past 2+ years. The 4.09patch is a good example. No one messed with anything until they started gettting messed over.

MARK THESE WORDS
Console air combat game like IL2 will NEVER be successful.


Several reasons... The kids that play the Console games are interested in very fast action, little strategy tweaks, and lots of noise, monster explosions, lots of hacking, pounding and shooting. Console game playes want incredible stuff at fast and furious speeds. They sure aren't going to be interested to perfect air combat flying skills to nail a tough realsitic enemy flight and damage model aircraft. Console game players have their little efficient controller secured between their little jam cover fingers and they're giving what for to what's it. LOL

PC developers of Complex games like the IL2 Sturmovik have got to figure ways to protect their software from piracy. If they can't find a way to do that large numbers of thieves will certainly bootleg. The immersion is the big thing with a Combat Flight Sim like IL2, the joystick, the throttle, the pedals, the sound, the track IR. Users experience a game like IL2... they don't play it.

The Il2 Sturmovik - Birds of Prey console game will flop

If you play the Trailer for Birds of Prey... the map area is Britain and the aircraft are 16 polys. These are things Oleg was presenting to start with about the BOB SOW. I conclude, He got diverted and that's what he's spent his time on.

Too bad, the BOB SOW is dead.

If you think you're supporting the IL2 community by buying a console game like Birds of Prey you are wrong. You're just pushing us further from competent PC based Combat flight siml like the BOB SOW would have been.


You should read this response from a guy you may have heard of...his name is "nearmiss" (ironic, yes?), and he had this to say about posts like yours:

Originally Posted by "nearmiss"
All these authoritarians on the forums boards that write postings in an officious manner. They present themselves to be insiders and know something all the rest of us do not, and all we dummies had better listen up.

They're as bad as the crazy dudes that dress up and act like policemen. The kind that ride around in automobiles that they have fixed up to look like police cars and look for people to harrass. These kinda dudes are basically nuts.


Ironic, yes? :)

[BadAim]

Should we be suprised at the conspiracy theorists? It took them over 40 years to figure out that Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy. They will be arguing over BOP for years after BOB has been released.

[Tree_UK]

I thought it took over 40 years to try and convince us the Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy, when all the facts say he didn't. But then again i bet you believe man landed on the moon. :grin:

[Shrike_UK]

How many times do you guys have to be told that the console game is not Oleg's? All he supplied was the IL2 engine, nothing else. No models, no maps, no content of any kind.

Do any of you ever read any posts here for comprehension? Are you even capable of it?

And quit the childish whining about 4.09. Spamming the forums with your schoolyard bully tone only makes you look like fools, and will not get you a patch any quicker.

In short, grow up.

:evil:


Why have i never seen you or any of the the other badmouthing blitzpigs ingame for the past 8-9 years? is it because people would gang up on you?

The last squad that challenged us lost 50-0 due to our superior tactics and teamwork. I'm sure i could resource the best teamplayer pilots once more, if there is a worthy enemy.

Keep the flames out the forums. You want to put people down, then i suggest you learn who you are attacking or you wont stand a chance.

Shrike
Ex-Founder of NDS, DEY, KSS
Ex- Pilot of US_8TH, BSW, Ku101, RAF33.

[SlipBall]

BOB SOW is a work in progress that can not be rushed to completion by anxious people. If it were dead, Oleg would step up and say so!...I'm sure that they are doing the very best that they can to get it to market

[jermin]

Why have i never seen you or any of the the other badmouthing blitzpigs ingame for the past 8-9 years? is it because people would gang up on you?

The last squad that challenged us lost 50-0 due to our superior tactics and teamwork. I'm sure i could resource the best teamplayer pilots once more, if there is a worthy enemy.

Keep the flames out the forums. You want to put people down, then i suggest you learn who you are attacking or you wont stand a chance.

Shrike
Ex-Founder of NDS, DEY, KSS
Ex- Pilot of US_8TH, BSW, Ku101, RAF33.

Yes. High post counts = Low flying skill. That's always an unbreakable rule throughout ubi and here. People really playing games won't have much time hanging around forums. We really need a place for professional players to communicate with each other, like Gotfrag.com

[nearmiss]

Why have i never seen you or any of the the other badmouthing blitzpigs ingame for the past 8-9 years? is it because people would gang up on you?

The last squad that challenged us lost 50-0 due to our superior tactics and teamwork. I'm sure i could resource the best teamplayer pilots once more, if there is a worthy enemy.

Keep the flames out the forums. You want to put people down, then i suggest you learn who you are attacking or you wont stand a chance.

Shrike
Ex-Founder of NDS, DEY, KSS
Ex- Pilot of US_8TH, BSW, Ku101, RAF33.

I remember when I first got Il2 1.0 about a century ago. I posted on the Ubi forums. It was common to get singled out by several Blitzpigs and they'd rag the heck out of you. After awhile may posters just wouldn't respond to them.

I didn't play online, but I could sure see a reason people might gang up on them.

A bunch of "smart a$$ know it alls" was their claim to faime.

[Tree_UK]

I dont think SOW is dead, but i have to say if it comes out in 2009 or 10 then it must hold the record for the most time taken to develop a game. We have been led to believe that Oleg and crew have been working flat out on this since 2006, if that is true then its gonna have to sell shed loads to recoup any cash.

[nearmiss]

ElAurens[/COLOR[/B]];47349]Great idea.

;)


And nearmiss, please, A: learn to read, and B: grow up.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Chivas, thanks for the quotes, and the clarification on the engine/FM thing.

I'm not going to respond to the above ridiculous put down.

Personal attacks turn threads into a beligerent poster's battleground.

There is no way I could have ask you to prove it, and you not get off on it.

The way you worded your response there was no recourse, except to call you on it....or let you think you got "me told".

At least Chivas did try to make a decent response, which you certainly didn't.

I appreciate what [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Chivas did because I had not seen that thread.

Also, there was not mention of whether the renders were from BOB SOW or not. FLight models and damage models are not flight model renderings of the aircraft.

I appreciate all the content from one forum thread.

Proton45 - I pick up on your tone. I don't declare I have any special knowledge or insider anything. I'm a user of the IL2 just like everyone else... except for the elite few who know everything.

The console game means nothing to me.

I probably shouldn't have discussed it, but it does appear to me that resources from BOB SOW were used to develop it.

---------------------------------------

One thing that triggers alot of the way I think is in the way the BOB SOW has not been promoted, except for a few words and aircraft images for two+ years.

Then the patch that is never finished. IMO, when people quit... they quit.

I do believe Oleg answered those postings that head this board, but I'm thinking we are just pumped a little information to keep us going for what reason I don't know.

When people plan to sell something they are excited about they are usually very eager to get potential customers excited as well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All we expect or look forward to from Oleg may be a thing of the past anyway.

If Putin continues to screw around with Georgia and George we sure as heck won't get a BOB SOW until the end of the next cold war.

Probably the only reason this boards hasn't been shut down is the http doesn't end in ru.

The ice is getting thin guys. If the board does get shut down like Lockon ----

I've enjoyed all of you guys and the community, including some of you that may not be that happy with me.

Arguments are excellent tools for thinkers and I think you'll miss alot in life if you can't tolerate constructive argument.

[Chivas]

The first time I'd seen the BOP screenshots and movies with IL-2 Strumovic in the name, that looked remarkably like early BOB screenshots, it would be easy to think the three sims were linked. The developers of both sims deny much envolvment and I have no reason not to believe them. Since both sim were doing high quality moddels of the same terrain location and era they should be remarkably alike.

edit... When the two sims are delivered I would imagine SOW will have far more detail especially at low level, but I really like what BOP has to offer.

[Chivas]

Its no wonder Oleg doesn't post any interesting screenshots of SOW. When he does post something like this.....


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/BOBSOW.jpg

It becomes this...


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/bf5d188ba688.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/thefruitbat1/754fb4940504.jpg

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/2574/27880434mk8.jpg

I'm sure SOW will be far more advanced, but you could see where the developers don't want to risk posting anything.

The community berates them for not posting anything and steals it when they do.

Never mind any commerial competeing sims using the ideas.

[Chivas]

I dont think SOW is dead, but i have to say if it comes out in 2009 or 10 then it must hold the record for the most time taken to develop a game. We have been led to believe that Oleg and crew have been working flat out on this since 2006, if that is true then its gonna have to sell shed loads to recoup any cash.

I have no inside info but I've followed the development of IL-2 and SOW since the beginning on all the related forums as they changed over the years. IL-2 was 7+ years in development and they weren't updating a existing sim at the same time. SOW started development around 2004 but most of the development crew were working on Pacific Fighters in 2005/6, PE-2, IL-2 1946 etc in 2007, not to mention all the free additions. They've only had a full crew working on SOW for the last year or so. If the sim comes out in 2009 or even 2010 it will be rather remarkable to have the next benchmark developed in under 6 years.

Unfortunately do to pressures of having SOW finished they had to pull the full crew into the development, so the 4.09 patch got caught in the middle. It had to happen at some point.


The developers support of the IL-2 series is unprecedented so I really can't understand people berating the developers actions.

[nearmiss]

have you given much attention the ads for birds of prey?

The name it is being sold under and promoted

IL2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/game/il-2-sturmovik-birds-of-prey/overview

Would you say that excludes Oleg? I would NOT think anyone, especially another developer could use IL2 Sturmovik to promote a game.

Anyone reading that name would naturally think Oleg was associated to a large degree with that product.

The name Il2 Sturmovik is unique enough and has enough clout among users it wouldn't be smart NOT to call the BOB SOW--->

IL2 Sturmovik Storms of War: Battle of Britain

Branding is what it is all about, and Oleg has a great brand name IL2 Sturmovik

[Chivas]

For new forum members read with interest posts from

Oleg Maddox IL-2/SOW developer
Luthier IL-2 Pacific fighters/ Korean addon to SOW
Crazyivan1970 talks to Oleg on occasion and provides valid information on their projects

some interesting posts from

SaQSon modeller
Foobar modeller



The rest of us are speculating.
Some of our speculations are based on posts from the above group.

All of us want more info. Some of us are willing to wait, others will post outrageous speculations, with nothing to back it up, in the hopes that it will draw more info from the developers.

From what I've seen over the years, any info given by the developer is more detrimental to the cause, than helpfull. Of course I'm not in the above group so read, but ignore this post.

[Chivas]

have you given much attention the ads for birds of prey?

The name it is being sold under and promoted

IL2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/game/il-2-sturmovik-birds-of-prey/overview

Would you say that excludes Oleg? I would NOT think anyone, especially another developer could use IL2 Sturmovik to promote a game.

Anyone reading that name would naturally think Oleg was associated to a large degree with that product.

The name Il2 Sturmovik is unique enough and has enough clout among users it wouldn't be smart NOT to call the BOB SOW--->

IL2 Sturmovik Storms of War: Battle of Britain


Like I just implied in a recent post, having IL-2 Sturmovik in the title of BOP has confused alot of people. Most people are over that now. The original IL-2 was planned to only have the IL-2 Strumovik flyable, but the sim evolved many times over the years, thanks to the support of the developers. I'm sure if Oleg had a crystal ball he would have given the sim a different name.

I'm not sure the IL-2 Sturmovik name is required for product recognition or fits the discription of the future series.

[JG52Uther]

I'm bored of this forum and all the fighting that goes on.
The only ones who can say for sure what is going on is Oleg or Ilya,and they don't even bother anymore,everything else is either people arguing that SoW is dead (why bother coming here anymore if you believe that?) or people who presume to speak for Oleg or Ilya,and feel the need to repeat the same thing over and over.

[Chivas]

Yes its obviously a waste of time repeating the same things over and over. I thought it might help new forum members, even knowing it would irritate some regulars. :)

[nearmiss]

Yes its obviously a waste of time repeating the same things over and over. I thought it might help new forum members, even knowing it would irritate some regulars. :)

LOL :grin:

You will never make everyone that reads one of your postings happy.

Happiness is the reader's choice and it's not chosen alot here.

[virre89]

have you given much attention the ads for birds of prey?

The name it is being sold under and promoted

IL2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/game/il-2-sturmovik-birds-of-prey/overview

Would you say that excludes Oleg? I would NOT think anyone, especially another developer could use IL2 Sturmovik to promote a game.

Anyone reading that name would naturally think Oleg was associated to a large degree with that product.

The name Il2 Sturmovik is unique enough and has enough clout among users it wouldn't be smart NOT to call the BOB SOW--->

IL2 Sturmovik Storms of War: Battle of Britain

Branding is what it is all about, and Oleg has a great brand name IL2 Sturmovik


Look dude,

I don't know were you're going with your posts but im sick of them.
You've been given enough evidence that IL2-POB has nothing to do with BOB:SOW, now either you just accept it or simply get lost.. since you don't even seem to trust the developers.

Besides, the IL2 Birds of Prey version is a great move for 1C to get more involved in the console business. Myself and probably everyone on this forum is a hardcore PC gamer but it's a great move and today the console market is neccessary for any developer/publisher.

Even the almighty pc developer ID SOFTWARE and their Code guru John Carmack stated that they've to create console games now to keep up with the market, nonetheless he was sure to point out that "they would still be making PC games even if it wouldn't sell the same , simply because it was the right thing to do" (make PC games).

SoW will be great, it's all flight fans and ww2 worshiper's wet dream an all new engine , new features , sounds in other words another benchmark Sim / Engine.

I think people should admire them for making this a pure PC game since it's not easy today and then accept BOP as an entry to the console market.

People should be glad we don't get a BOP port to the PC, but instead a full featured hardcore flightsim developed by the IL2 team for the >>>>PC<<<<.

[proton45]

I wonder if the similarity of the screen shots from "IL2 BOP" and "SoW BoB" is do to some kind of Ubi photoshop publicity processing? If you compare the "BoP" video clip with the "IL2 1946" DVD video clip of "SoW BoB" they don't really appear that similar...

[ElAurens]

Why have i never seen you or any of the the other badmouthing blitzpigs ingame for the past 8-9 years?


Funny, I could ask you the same question.

The last squad that challenged us lost 50-0 due to our superior tactics and teamwork. I'm sure i could resource the best teamplayer pilots once more, if there is a worthy enemy.

And what does this have to do with the conversation at hand, exactly?

Keep the flames out the forums. You want to put people down, then i suggest you learn who you are attacking or you wont stand a chance.

I suggest you follow your own advice.

The only flames I see being propagated here are by those who are merely speculating about the future of SOW, and the release of the 4.09 patch, with no knowledge of what they speak.

[Tree_UK]

I think all the discussion/arguments would be quelled if we did have just a little bit of communication from Oleg/crew. For me it wouldn't even have to be screen shots or 3d models it could be just a quick message saying 'making good progress etc', or anything that shows work is in progress. I know its not terribly important to all of us here but i personally think that it would do wonders for all fans of Oleg if there was just a little bit more feedback. It only takes a minute to make a small post. Alas that is not happening and for what reason i really dont know, it just seems a little strange. I used to be a professional drummer and had a record contract, if the band was away in the studio writing new material we always kept in touch with our fan base and let them know what was happening without giving anything away just to keep them on board and informed. This made good business sense for when product was released we still had a fan base. I cant imagine its much different in the software world.

[zapatista]

Why have i never seen you or any of the the other badmouthing blitzpigs ingame for the past 8-9 years? is it because people would gang up on you?

The last squad that challenged us lost 50-0 due to our superior tactics and teamwork. I'm sure i could resource the best teamplayer pilots once more, if there is a worthy enemy.

Keep the flames out the forums. You want to put people down, then i suggest you learn who you are attacking or you wont stand a chance.

Shrike
Ex-Founder of NDS, DEY, KSS
Ex- Pilot of US_8TH, BSW, Ku101, RAF33.

you get the prize for the newbie teen-post of the month

[zapatista]

folks, there is nothing strange about people getting inpatient and restless, even doubting BoB is still going to be released.

we had multiple indications at various times that oleg was back on track and a release date was getting closer. he indicated so himself in this forum and several others, not giving a release date but stating he would give regular updates again, which to me indicated the project was coming together and close to beta stage (having been in alpha since mid 2006). now everything has again gone silent from olegs team, with only a few screenshots in 5 or 6 months (err all of which were aircraft being worked on by 3e party, not olegs crew themselves), and ivan now indicates it will be "sometime later in 2009" so obviously another major delay has occurred since jan/feb 2008.

the least oleg and Co could do is release the final 4.09 patch, they stated themselves it would only take a few hrs for one of their programmers to finalize it, and it is now very obvious we are in for major further delays with BoB. under the circumstances no excuse is valid to further delay that patch imo.

if oleg is continuing to stay ex-communicado with regular updates as he originally stated he would resume, i vote we get our old moderator back, he at least seemed semi involved here and fed us a few crubs every once in a while, and also extinguished false rumors when they were gaining momentum. most of the current worst-case-scenario speculations are because we simply have no information whatsoever, and the idle mind is the devils playground.

the questions and answers post our last moderator did were also great, oleg answered where he could, and skirted around other issues where confidentiality was still important. currently the oleg questions thread is a total mess with unrelated post and has become a garbled thread of leg-humper posts, side issues, and contains only a few genuine questions..

[ElAurens]

I think all the discussion/arguments would be quelled if we did have just a little bit of communication from Oleg/crew.

Agreed.

While personally I am OK with things, any P.R. move by developers, in any game, is a good thing, as long as it does not compromise developmental security, or violate terms of contractual obligations.

[JoeA]

Well I concur with the last two posts by zapatista and El Aurens and I really think it would be a nice thing to release 4.09 official so we can do some proper Slovakia and Besserabia online action.

I ignore kiddies anyway. ;)

[crazyivan1970]

and ivan now indicates it will be "sometime later in 2009" so obviously another major delay has occurred since jan/feb 2008.



Wait wait wait zapatista :) All i said is predicting release in 2010 is a bit far fetched. :D I did not suggest any release dates, but 2008 is out of the question, doesnt take rocket scientist to figure that out. We are 4 months away from the end of the year...

[ElAurens]

:cool:

[JG52Uther]

And you can't have Evgeny back,as I think he left /got sacked/made redundant/whatever!

[BigPickle]

Gotta post as Nearmiss has creased me up laughin so much over the last 13 pages.
Sadly I agree with a lot of his statements.

I feel sorry for the Admins/Mods here because you are slightly elevated in your responsibility here, and are expected to have a bit more info than the average Joe as is common on 99% of forums, sadly 1C forums seem to be that final 1%. The "Management" are letting you down guys!, don't blame the public for fishing, its not their fault.
People who have passion for a subject will be excited and hold out hope and re-check forums each day hoping to get another glimpse or increase the excitement with the latest news. I don't think I know any other sim community that has more passion than the Flight Simming Community. Shame on who ever it is that dangles a 109e or a Spitfire in front of our noses like the proverbial carrot, fills us full of tales of advanced physics and interchangeable vehicles. Then doesn't keep the community updated.
What did they really think was going to happen?

There are too many ppl who defend large companies to the eye tooth and these companies have generally started to not care about the long and dedicated fans and just care for the gain of money, sadly they know they wont have to face the flak in the forums cos there will be some ppl who will fight back for them. Guys unless your paid by ppl dont bother fighting for a cause that really isn't bothered if you fight for it, they'll get their money if they are defended or not. If the developers are not loyal enough to fight for the community and what we want i.e. to be kept up-to-date often, then dont fight for them, after all its your money you will be spending on this game if it should ever get released.

I have played and stuck with IL2 series from the early days and enjoyed it very much.
IMHO something is wrong here with SoW BoB.
Granted it takes some serious time to make a game these days but seriously, really, do you only expect the little info we have on nearly 3 years of production? and now the publisher we'd been told about supposedly isn't solid either.
You have to ask yourself this:
If you were to walk into these forums today would you think this game was a go? Probably not, because it doesn't even have its own section now, its only because of hope and wanting it that ppl are still prepared to deny an outcome that is not looking too great.

I personally think it will get released eventually but I dont think its a front-line project anymore, either that or there maybe a possibility that the community might have been misled/misunderstood how far along the road of development it actually is.
But, the only ppl to blame for the misunderstanding should be the PR ppl, they really should pay attention to what ppl feel in here or it could spell disaster for the game, when my friends and I first found out about this game ALL of us were really excited now, I'm the only one left who cares, pre-orders have been withdrawn, some even say they cant be arsed at all.

I have listened to nearmiss here, and in the other forums I have seen him in around the FS community along with other members here too, he's got a lot of passion for flight simming clearly or he wouldn't feel so dejected, maybe its because he can prolly see like others and me also, that this is not Oleg's normal style for things to get this way, he has 99% of the time kept the community up-to-date with other title releases, and the PR for the community with SoW has been below par.
I believe the only way the community is going to find out the truth is to all unite and simply pose the question, "Do you want our money for the SoW sim? if so can we please be kept updated in a regular fashion".
Then at least nearmiss could bury that poor old dead horse for good :)

[JG52Uther]

Well I don't know who you are masked stranger,but that was spot on.

Now,prepare to be flamed and told how wrong you are for even suggesting it! ;)

[BigPickle]

LoL I actually took out the bit about dont flame me bit cos I thought it would just incite being flamed.

[Tree_UK]

Well its got to be said that Big Pickle has probably hit the nail right on its head.
I have to agree that something just aint right with SOW.

[BigPickle]

Well if I am wrong then hopefully it will make the PR crew see that the community isn't just whining and that it wants to have the dream of SoW kept alive. The only way to do that is by providing info to keep it alive. But of course only if its actually going to be released.

[96th_Nightshifter]

Perhaps we should all just stop posting in this forum, let the place be deserted for a while and make them post to get our attention. We are all just going around in circles, getting a scrap every 3 or 4 months or so and then rinse and repeat we are left speculating and arguing for another 3 or 4 months.

Everyone here that posts is letting them know they have an audience regardless of the information we are given (or not given); make them work for their audience IMO, they give us some info, they get feedback - we are after all going to be paying for this.

My two cents.

[BigPickle]

Very true dude

[SlipBall]

Boy, you guy's are something else...act like men. When it's done its done, stop crying about it

[Tree_UK]

Yes c'mon guys, Men dont need news or updates. Updates are for girls and queers. Lets be men and stay huddled together in the dark.

[96th_Nightshifter]

Boy, you guy's are something else...act like men. When it's done its done, stop crying about it

I'm not crying, I never whine about this sort of thing and in fact have no doubt whatsoever that this game will be released and that it will be awesome.

I agree with "when it's done it's done" whole heartedly, that is my point. There is no point in sitting around in a dead forum arguing about this, what I am saying is wait until we actually get some more information and then give the forum the populating it deserves.

Right now all we do is argue about what little scraps of info we have about a game that has no forum of it's own.

The next time I post it will be after Oleg and or Luthier's post count increases and I will happily enjoy the actual information they pass on instead of this mindless pi$$ing contest about who believes and who doesn't.

[ElAurens]

Boy, you guy's are something else...act like men. When it's done its done, stop crying about it

+1

[WTE_Galway]

Instead of complaining here why not write to the multinational corporation who sucked up most of the SOW development money in a a ludicrous IP lawsuit :)

[Chivas]

Boy, you guy's are something else...act like men. When it's done its done, stop crying about it


+2

[ElAurens]

Instead of complaining here why not write to the multinational corporation who sucked up most of the SOW development money in a a ludicrous IP lawsuit :)


That was UBI's fault, not Oleg's.

;)

[JoeA]

+2

Dude check PM.

[nearmiss]

I think there is one acknowledgement we can all make, regardless of what we believe about SOW, BOP...

There is something wrong.

Something is just not right with the SOW.

[Chivas]

I think there is one acknowledgement we can all make, regardless of what we believe about SOW, BOP...

There is something wrong.

Something is just not right with the SOW.

You bet there is something wrong.

Whats wrong is any screenshots posted by the SOW developers can so easily be used against them as seen in pics posted in the UBI forums. People still wonder why there is very little info on SOW.

[Tree_UK]

You bet there is something wrong.

Whats wrong is any screenshots posted by the SOW developers can so easily be used against them as seen in pics posted in the UBI forums. People still wonder why there is very little info on SOW.

Well if that is the case, personally i think not, then why doesn't someone from Olegs team come on here and say so. Otherwise your just speculating that this is the problem. The only fact in all this discussion is that the communication from Oleg/Crew is at best poor.

If you think the communication is good, then fine, i think it is very poor. The rest is all bullshit unless it comes from Oleg.

[Shrike_UK]

"And now let’s fast forward about 10 years. From a Korean War simulator built on the Storm of War engine by Ilya Shevchenko and Co."

maybe Oleg is also assisting with Ilya's project, granted the feedback from both teams can help to iron out issues with the engine.

I doubt both projects would be cancelled, do you?
Maybe they both will be released around the same time.

i would most likely buy both sims, i quite like jets too.

[Chivas]

Well if that is the case, personally i think not, then why doesn't someone from Olegs team come on here and say so. Otherwise your just speculating that this is the problem. The only fact in all this discussion is that the communication from Oleg/Crew is at best poor.

If you think the communication is good, then fine, i think it is very poor. The rest is all bullshit unless it comes from Oleg.


I don't understand why you don't think so. The community has already stolen a screenshot from SOW and used it in their map making.

Like you there is nothing I'd like more than having more screenshots and info on SOW, but I can understand some of the reasons why not.

#1
Oleg and crew would like to post more (as they have stated) but do not have exclusive rights to disclose as they are under contract to a publisher who holds those rights.

#2
Any screenshot they post can easily be pirated by the community or competitor.

[Chivas]

"And now let’s fast forward about 10 years. From a Korean War simulator built on the Storm of War engine by Ilya Shevchenko and Co."

maybe Oleg is also assisting with Ilya's project, granted the feedback from both teams can help to iron out issues with the engine.

I doubt both projects would be cancelled, do you?
Maybe they both will be released around the same time.

i would most likely buy both sims, i quite like jets too.

Luthier (ILya) the developer of the Korean project using the SOW BOB engine is currently helping OLegs team finish BOB. You won't see the Korean project out before BOB. Its highly doubtfull that either sim will be cancelled at this point but there is some doubt on any further additions to the SOW engine in regards to piracy making it unprofitable.

[Tree_UK]

Chivas, if someone can steal a screenshot and make a map out of it then Oleg should sign them up cause they can work a lot faster than his lot. At the end of the day anything can be stolen we know this, but i really dont think this is the reason behind the none communication. I dont know what is behind it, but im sure if it was ab piracy thing then Oleg would of said has much.

[JG52Uther]

Stop whining.SoW will be released at the end of 2006 as planned.
Just have a bit of patieence for Gods sake.

[Chivas]

Chivas, if someone can steal a screenshot and make a map out of it then Oleg should sign them up cause they can work a lot faster than his lot. At the end of the day anything can be stolen we know this, but i really dont think this is the reason behind the none communication. I dont know what is behind it, but im sure if it was ab piracy thing then Oleg would of said has much.



Of course you can work alot faster when you are pirating other people work.

There is absolutely no comparison in the amount of work required.

Oleg has stated long ago that Piracy could determine any future addons to the SOW series. Why would anyone spend 7 years developing anything and have someone download it for free in minutes.

I have no idea what all the reasons for the lack of info are but its rather easy to speculate what some of them are.

OK I'm worn out and give up. Enjoy all your negativity.

[Tree_UK]

Chivas, c'mon mate, piracy is not the reason behind the lack of communication here.

[bhunter2112]

WAKE UP - YOU SELL GAMES RIGHT? Let us know if you are still going to resease the game and give us a loose time frame. Example....we are here in production and hope to release in the second half of 09.

Get a web site with a forum and update screen shots and movies every week or so. Generate some buzz and guess what you may sell more games and maybe attract new players. I check this site every few days and everytime ....NOTHING

[proton45]

Lol...

[BigPickle]

@ Mods/Admins, Do you see? More and more ppl are leaving, its not the fact that ppl want to be rude or be impatient or insult anyone at all. As i said in a previous post, ppl who have passion for flight simming get excited about what SoW has to offer, then nothing happens and all info stops.
Then guess what after almost 3 years, blind faith they are supposed to have in ppl who say dont be impatient, grow up get a life and, oh, the crowning turd in the water pipe.. be a man ! ppl loose that faith in ppl like that because the reality dawns that they know nothing more than the people they are telling to be a man, and the insults are just to try to cover up that fact.

And as piracy goes, not the wisest idea to post a texture grid without atleast right click "save as" being disabled? me thinks not.

I do feel sorry for you admins etc, because you stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one, but I've never seen admins/mods snub a community this way and not even be willing to take the communities plea to the management, I thought that was part of your role to interact between the community and the developers, so ..... guess that they are not talking to you guys either?
I hope you can see that I'm trying to help not only you, but this sim and its community too, by speaking honestly and trying to give some logical advice.

[Tree_UK]

Well im signing out from here, lets be honest there is really no point being on this forum, its not even a SOW forum. There Isn't an SOW forum :) i suppose that says it all. Anyway i hope i have not offended anyone by any of my posts here.

Take care all :):) S!

[JG52Uther]

Well im signing out from here, lets be honest there is really no point being on this forum, its not even a SOW forum. There Isn't an SOW forum :) i suppose that says it all. Anyway i hope i have not offended anyone by any of my posts here.

Take care all :):) S!

+1 I'll be back when the time comes.Have fun talking amongst yourselves :)

[Feuerfalke]

We all know you won't go. ;)

[crazyivan1970]

The most dramatic ending.... :D

[proton45]

Lol...

[ElAurens]

:lol:

Pretty funny stuff.

Always remember, the ones who really leave never announce their intention to do so.

;)

[Tvrdi]

:lol:

Pretty funny stuff.

Always remember, the ones who really leave never announce their intention to do so.

;)

this is so right but it is also a truth that Ill be playing KOTS and not SOW hehe...not only because i think it will be more fun but because I think SOW would happen in 2012. I can bet with u guys.

[ElAurens]

I'll be playing them both sir, and in 2009.

Be sure.

[nearmiss]

There isn't much in the way of moderation on these forums.

If you think there is put up something really bad, and tell everyone that sees it what you're doing.

Then ask them not to report the bad posting. Just wait and see how long it takes for any moderation. LOL

------------------------------------------------------

Oleg should learn one important thing from the AAA site.
There are plenty of competent map builders that would love to tackle IL2/SOW map projects.

If Oleg enlisted a little help no one would hold it against him.

In fact, I think it would endear him more to fans.

There are some darned excellent addons at AAA.

It is a shame to overlook that kind of willing and competent people that want to do things to improve the CFS experience.

Oleg needs to get into the mindset of allowing 3rd party help.

Then he could deal with harder issues that are required at the core programming level

If such were the case, there is no doubt there would already be a released SOW.

That old stinking thinking about "NO one can do it better than I and my people" has been shown to be bunk.

We only have one map available with IL2 "Slovakia" that equals anything available at AAA.

The funny part is Slovakin map can't be used ONLINE on IL2 legitimized servers as the 4.09 still isn't finished.

------------------------------------

There is something wrong.

Do we have to smell the dead horse to know it's dead

[flyingbullseye]

Nearmiss you make a good point. Even if the 3rd party modders only received just exclusive credit shown in the sim I'm sure some would be happy and proud of their work for all to see. Think of the time and money Oleg could save as well as what you mentioned, more endearment within the eyes of the community and might even restore many fans faith. Still have faith that the sim will be finished but I'll admit it gets hard at times.

[JoeA]

OK I'm worn out and give up. Enjoy all your negativity.

PM again.

[MiniMe]

I ask myself: Would Oleg laugh about this thread or cry?
Cry, because the users don't read his answers and
laugh because of the stupidity of this thread

hmmm maybe he doesn't read this thread

[Feuerfalke]

nearmiss, you're STILL here?


:grin:


Anyway, just picking up one point from your post:

"Oleg should learn one important thing from the AAA site."

He did.

Infact he did that several years ago, even before AAA was born.

Infact that is why BoB will be partially open structured. ;)


But "The funny part" is, that the maps in 4.09 ARE 3rd Party and they're still not finished. ;)

[Skarphol]

But "The funny part" is, that the maps in 4.09 ARE 3rd Party and they're still not finished. ;)

On april 22. Jurinko said "Maps are ready for final release for more than two months. I asked Oleg at least two times wen the final version will be released. AFAIK we all are waiting for some programmer to put it together."
And later, in another thread: "AFAIK it takes maybe one afternoon to compile all the map stuff into 4.09 so the time exactly can not be the issue"
I suppose noone at Maddox Games has the time to implement them into the final 4.09 patch.

Skarphol

[Feuerfalke]

Nobody has the time indeed.

But do you have a link to that statement?

AFAIK he stated that HIS part of the job was done. After all, that was barely 4 month after the release of 4.09m beta and there were still problems reported with screenshots and all, before the UBI-Forums were cleaned up. And in the ORR there were several statements, that the maps had to be finetuned, to be able to run them on low-end systems, too, just as Oleg had put the standard on all maps.

[Skarphol]

But do you have a link to that statement?


Yes;
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=3614&page=2 for the first one, and
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=3153 for the second one.

Skarphol

[Feuerfalke]

Yes;
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=3614&page=2 for the first one, and
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=3153 for the second one.

Skarphol


But both are only related to the versions of the Slovakia map. Do you have similar statements for the other maps, too?

[Skarphol]

But both are only related to the versions of the Slovakia map. Do you have similar statements for the other maps, too?


No, and I haven't searched either. According to Jurinko they are waiting for a programmer to put it all together. Don't you think that Jurinko would have been told if there was another reason for not implementing his finished maps into 4.09? It seems very clear to me that they are not going to work on finalising 4.09 until they have reached a certain stage in development of SOW. Until then there is no time or programmers available to IL-2. Fair enough. Working on 4.09 is work that doesn't create any income.

The lack of communication is still the weird thing here. It seems from Olegs earlier posts on this forum that he has intention of keeping in touch with the community. But the communication is turning for the worse. If he pops in and says "Hello" then everybody cheers. Luthiers post from Olegs home on june 6th ( http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=3410&highlight=Ilya&page=4 ) was very welcome. Not much news, but a look into how things are going. I really would like a few more of those posts.

Skarphol

[virre89]

There isn't much in the way of moderation on these forums.

If you think there is put up something really bad, and tell everyone that sees it what you're doing.

Then ask them not to report the bad posting. Just wait and see how long it takes for any moderation. LOL

------------------------------------------------------

Oleg should learn one important thing from the AAA site.
There are plenty of competent map builders that would love to tackle IL2/SOW map projects.

If Oleg enlisted a little help no one would hold it against him.

In fact, I think it would endear him more to fans.

There are some darned excellent addons at AAA.

It is a shame to overlook that kind of willing and competent people that want to do things to improve the CFS experience.

Oleg needs to get into the mindset of allowing 3rd party help.

Then he could deal with harder issues that are required at the core programming level

If such were the case, there is no doubt there would already be a released SOW.

That old stinking thinking about "NO one can do it better than I and my people" has been shown to be bunk.

We only have one map available with IL2 "Slovakia" that equals anything available at AAA.

The funny part is Slovakin map can't be used ONLINE on IL2 legitimized servers as the 4.09 still isn't finished.

------------------------------------

There is something wrong.

Do we have to smell the dead horse to know it's dead

Were you born in a bunker?

I mean, you can't start involving random people into your projects and company's. Seriously would you start hiring random people if you were running a business.

Just some simple factors:

# You can't hire random people across the world
# You need to know them , know their skill , know their dedication
# You need serious communication
# You need them to live were you run your company
# Risk of leeks, security reasons etc etc ffs


This is just a few arguments but good enough to not hire random people for serious projects within company's. Let's not forget about the fact that the game industry is a billion business and is nothing you play around with like mods.. Serious amount of money and effort is put into this.

[nearmiss]

Were you born in a bunker?

No, I wasn't born in bunker.

I mean, you can't start involving random people into your projects and company's. Seriously would you start hiring random people if you were running a business.

You bet I would, if I were in Oleg's shoes.
The mods on the AAA site, esepcially the map mods,i.e."the slot" are better than any map from Oleg crews.

Just some simple factors:

# You can't hire random people across the world
# You need to know them , know their skill , know their dedication
# You need serious communication
# You need them to live were you run your company
# Risk of leeks, security reasons etc etc ffs

You don't need to know the people, and it doesn't matter where they are.
The results speak for themselves. Oleg has used 3rd party stuff, and scrutinized it. It is my understanding "Slovakia" is all done by 3rd party.

This is just a few arguments but good enough to not hire random people for serious projects within company's. Let's not forget about the fact that the game industry is a billion business and is nothing you play around with like mods.. Serious amount of money and effort is put into this.

If people want to help and do it for free or whether Oleg pays that is his business.

A good example of third party stuff. The Scott that heads up the BOB II WOV lives in the North East USA, Buddye the AI programmer lives in South Texas, and I've visited with other members of the dev team, one lives in a small town close to Oslo, Norway.

[MiniMe]

A good example of third party stuff is BoB goes Railway (http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3751020023/m/2181080123)

[WTE_Galway]

I ask myself: Would Oleg laugh about this thread or cry?
Cry, because the users don't read his answers and
laugh because of the stupidity of this thread

hmmm maybe he doesn't read this thread

Seriously, if you were Oleg would you read this thread ?

I am sure he has far better things to do.

[BigPickle]

See thats where the problem lays, damn you guys think this sim is gonna blow the world away? how is it gonna meet any expectations of the community if the man himself isnt even asking the community what they expect.

And i think nearmiss's point is not what he wrote but the Actual words he wrote like AAA IL2 mods etc etc, these are supposed to be taboo'd words in here lol, everytime some uses those words or #Quotes nearmiss you are making his point clearer that, moderation or Admin in this forum is non existant. Hence why ppl are being insulted for there views.

I mean come one, seriously this debate could be ended with-in a week maybe. All the mods have to do is put a bit of pressure on the management to say throw us a bone, but thats not gonna happen cos they know they wont get a reply or even an answer themselves.

Go on guys prove all the peeps in here wrong about SoW, you all seem to say you know way more about SoW and have 110% faith, share the faith without becoming martyrs.

[Oktoberfest]

I too think that taking 5 minutes every month to write 2 or 3 lines in this forum, even without replying to all of our requests / questions would be good.

Last time he just bothered to give a life sign just because the community was all upset looking at this BoP video that came and looked soo much like BoB. Without this, I'm sure he wouldn't have even put a line since march.

He could also delegate this power of reply to somebody in his team if he dislike doing it by himself.

5 minutes a month can't be counted as "lost time for SoW development", especially when it's just to calm down a bit the eagerness of his fans.

WHy does he write : "I will give regular updates" then ? Or is for him regular meaning one post every 4 - 6 months ?

[crazyivan1970]

BigPickle and Octoberfest, you are either not getting it or just dont want to get use to idea that THIS IS PUBLISHERS job to do all THAT. And Pickle, i got reality check for you... game development is whole alot more then listening to what you want.


And guys...please, when you talk, talk from YOUR point of view and dont represent the community. It happens very often lately, some people, for some reason think that they are appointed to speak as a whole community.

[JG52Uther]

1.I don't know who the publisher is,so I can't ask them for updates can I?

2.Oleg said he would give regular updates,did he say that without knowing it was the publishers job?

[Oktoberfest]

I'm not even asking for regular updates ! Just a sign of life.... Like, : Hello, this is Oleg, and the work is progressing here. I can't tell you, but it will look good ! " Or something like that. Plus about me speaking for the community... If I start a poll in this forum with the following questions :

Would you like to get regular updates ?

"Yes, I would greatly appreciate that Oleg give us a proof of life regularly as promised."

Or

"No, I prefer beeing kept in the dark."

What would be the reply ? I bet I know it.

Who's the publisher now ?

[brando]

All this speculation and demanding information is just insane. Why don't people just let the development team get on with what they're best at - developing what is sure to be a very complexly coded sim? It comes as no surprise that they're not paying heed to the clamouring mob.

B

[mondo]

BigPickle and Octoberfest, you are either not getting it or just dont want to get use to idea that THIS IS PUBLISHERS job to do all THAT. And Pickle, i got reality check for you... game development is whole alot more then listening to what you want.


And guys...please, when you talk, talk from YOUR point of view and dont represent the community. It happens very often lately, some people, for some reason think that they are appointed to speak as a whole community.

+1

This forum is sadly turning into UbiZoo MKII with paranoid and uninformed rantings by a bunch of drama queens.

[JG52Uther]

+1

This forum is sadly turning into UbiZoo MKII with paranoid and uninformed rantings by a bunch of drama queens.
I agree,people should not post acting like they speak for Oleg.

[virre89]

See thats where the problem lays, damn you guys think this sim is gonna blow the world away? how is it gonna meet any expectations of the community if the man himself isnt even asking the community what they expect.

And i think nearmiss's point is not what he wrote but the Actual words he wrote like AAA IL2 mods etc etc, these are supposed to be taboo'd words in here lol, everytime some uses those words or #Quotes nearmiss you are making his point clearer that, moderation or Admin in this forum is non existant. Hence why ppl are being insulted for there views.

I mean come one, seriously this debate could be ended with-in a week maybe. All the mods have to do is put a bit of pressure on the management to say throw us a bone, but thats not gonna happen cos they know they wont get a reply or even an answer themselves.

Go on guys prove all the peeps in here wrong about SoW, you all seem to say you know way more about SoW and have 110% faith, share the faith without becoming martyrs.

Get a hold of yourself.

It's gonna meet the expectations alright, first of their trying to make a new benchmark sim/engine which means that it will last after it's been released.
(This means that other titles can be released on the same engine, like the Korean War Sim or maybe modern combat)

Making this takes time, they've already said that the development of IL2 took about 4 years, and look we still play it.. and yes it's STILL the best combat flight simulator ever released.

*Il2 had very very impressive damage models, even back in the days and I've to say Sturmovik was actually way more ahead than a lot of other games when it came down to technology (by the time of release).*

I am sure they've listened a`lot to the community and besides, things will be improved such as a`lot more realism, damage physics , weather , graphics , aerodynamics etc etc.

I guess community features that could be wished for is things like, Dedicated Servers and support for today's type of on line requirements but im sure Oleg and his team already know this.

When it comes down to planes, and stuff like aerial realism then there's really no point in asking him for features.. he and his team will know alot more about historical aircrafts than most of you here ever will.

[proton45]

All this speculation and demanding information is just insane. Why don't people just let the development team get on with what they're best at - developing what is sure to be a very complexly coded sim? It comes as no surprise that they're not paying heed to the clamouring mob.

B

IMO...its about a feeling of "power and influence". A lot of people who are asking for up-dates are doing so just because its difficult (bored people looking for a challenge)...they are looking for an angle that "works". And even if they get an answer they will just bitch about what they hear... "I don't believe this..." and "why do they say that?" Just look at the record...

[Oktoberfest]

I agree,people should not post acting like they speak for Oleg.

When people have no information, it's natural they speculate..... And imagination and rumors is really easy to start or to follow. When no official news comes or there's not even any denial or confirmation about imortant things such as a distributor for western countries.

[proton45]

I agree,people should not post acting like they speak for Oleg.

Nice deflection... I don't think that that's what is happening here.

[JG52Uther]

Nice deflection... I don't think that that's what is happening here.

Yes I'm quite proud of that one! :)

Actually I do think that is what is happening here to an extent.There are a bunch of people asking for info about SoW,and a bunch of people acting as though they know whats going on.The only ones that do are Oleg and Ilya.I agree wholeheartedly with Ivans comment about using the royal 'we' when posting,and I think everyone should use 'I' on both sides.
I don't know whats going on,and neither do they.Look at this forum called 'IL2-Sturmovik'.
1C do not even have a SoW forum!
Now after all this time of 'ubi won't let us post updates' news breaks that ubi are probably not even the publisher!

[BigPickle]

Ok, seriously, I had hoped that my points of view would be taken seriously but hey so what, I think that you will misunderstand any points try that I make cos you are blinded by a Mort-Equus-caballus and its flagellation.

What perhaps you should try is not to Disambiguation the situation.

So long fellas, take care you all, see you on the darkside.

[SlipBall]

See thats where the problem lays, damn you guys think this sim is gonna blow the world away? how is it gonna meet any expectations of the community if the man himself isnt even asking the community what they expect.




You are wrong there on that point, he has read all the request from the community, and has replied to the better questions/suggestions. He is also a pilot, and knows better than most of us what is needed for completion of a sim dealing with that historic period:)