What disappoints me is the lack of communication on the 'Official' forum :(

[Mysticpuma]

I'm not here asking for "when is it going to be released", I'm bored with that now. Honestly though, most of us who post on the forums have jobs, or are in full-time education, and yet, we all manage to post here with advice, questions, links, etc,etc.

I think it's pretty lame of the developers to say they are so busy with this that we have no spare time at all.

This is a community forum, and whether we are asking or giving advice, we do take the time to visit.

After ORR on the Ubi forums got locked down (which in reality made little difference with the input that was actually coming from 1C), we now have this as the official forum area for questions to the developers.

So why am I posting this thread. Just because I am fed up of being one of the many anticipating the next game, the next patch, the next .dll fix (last one in March!!!!) the next tiny nugget of information, from a group of developers who think that we are willing to sit here and wait like Pavlov's dog's for the bell to be rung!

Seriously, I think that as this forum is the point of communication with the team, the least the team could do is spend a little time here actually giving some information to those loyal enough to show in interest and also for those who offer advice and free beta testing (4.09beta), and yet...blank...silence...nothing.


So come on guys, we are in your 'Official' forum...lets get some official feedback.

MP

[Tree_UK]

I couldn't agree with you more mate, unfortunately this is the wrong place to make such a post, anyone who dares to question the politics of either 1c, Oleg and or Ubi get shot to pieces in here. This forum is for believers only!! :):)

[KG26_Alpha]

Re BoB SoW

Well you could always fly over there and make the tea for the overworked 1c Team if you are that concerned about their performance and lack of forum input :)

Sniffing around the forums is akin to watching a kettle boil, my time is taken up at the moment researching for new Bessarabia missions and a Libya campaign taken from pilot and squadron diaries from 1940-44
There's plenty to do with IL2 1946 still IMHO.

Yes SoW progress updates are as rare as rocking horse s**t, but as in the past any amount of moaning and groaning does nothing to speed anything up in the development direction.



Re IL2 1946 third party v4.09m

If they released the v4.09m Dedicated Server this would unify the Hyperlobby community at least and get everyone on v4.09m, personally I see no reason for anyone to be flying only v4.08m except for the fact that there are those that wont fly "beta" updates.

Otherwise I'm not worried about SoW until it hits the retail market, and they better get it released in the EU at the same time as the US this time :)

Im sure the new series from 1c will keep me entertained for the next 8-9 years as IL2 has so far.

:)

[Feuerfalke]

I think it's pretty lame of the developers to say they are so busy with this that we have no spare time at all.

They don't. Forums members combine the statements that they are very busy with the fact that there are no statements. That's not an official statement, though.


Their statement is, that they are not allowed to post news until UBI gives the O.K. ;) - there are several statements on this forum, even from mods and developers stating this. I've posted these links a dozen times, so I won't repost them, as nobody cares anyways. It's a lot easier to keep bashing people for rumors that are spread, instead of reading what was actually posted.... :rolleyes:

Same is for 4.09. How many times do you want Oleg to repeat that 4.09 will be done when that certain stage is reached for BoB? He already posted it in a dozen of interviews, here, on SimHQ and UBI. Asking questions over and over again is pretty childish and seldomly changes the answer.

[Ploughman]

If they're not allowed to post news why have we had updates and why is there an Oleg's Answers sticky up top of page one? Clearly some level of communication is permitted.

[Feuerfalke]

If they're not allowed to post news why have we had updates and why is there an Oleg's Answers sticky up top of page one? Clearly some level of communication is permitted.

Why is the world black and white for so many of you guys?

Read what I wrote:
"Their statement is, that they are not allowed to post news until UBI gives the O.K."

If there is information posted, that doesn't mean this statement is a lie, but that MG and Oleg himself is struggling and stretching it to post news for you guys.

Ironically, he gets bashed for that over and over again....



This whole thing reminds me to an old Asian wisdom:
You cannot scoop water to drink, with your fists clenched.

[proton45]

I couldn't agree with you more mate, unfortunately this is the wrong place to make such a post, anyone who dares to question the politics of either 1c, Oleg and or Ubi get shot to pieces in here. This forum is for believers only!! :):)


I personally don't have a problem with people asking questions or such...

What bothers me is when people post a supposed question in an inflammatory or sensationalistic way...and then they are (claim) surprised when people respond in dismay.

We all know about "trolls" and other dwellers of the dark who like to start flame wars...and when people post "questions" in a fashion that is provoking an (negative) emotional response from other people...I for one have a hard time taking them seriously.

Let me give you an example of what I'm taking about... here is question that someone could ask about: "Why do I keep seeing different release dates for "SoW"? Now one person could ask the question just like the example... "Why do I keep seeing different release dates for "SoW"? BUT someone else might say... "Why does Oleg and Ubi keep lying to us about release dates?" "I think its all a big scam...this is vapor ware... all you Oleg worshipers are going to flame me but I want to know why I have been lied to!!!!" (This is an amalgamation of various REAL posts I have read)...Honestly! What kind of response would someone expect?

I for one respond (If I choose to) in the spirit of the question... :) :) :)


p.s. "Any question used as an example in no way reflects any real question posed by any forum member, and any similarity to actual questions posed past and present is purely coincidental..." :)

[JG52Uther]

Last time we got any news was when BoP was dropped on us from nowhere,and a large part of the community across several forums got upset.Since then,nothing.
If BoP had not happened,we would have heard nothing for months!
So it looks like we will hear nothing unless a large number of people start getting concerned and ask for updates.

[proton45]

Last time we got any news was when BoP was dropped on us from nowhere,and a large part of the community across several forums got upset.Since then,nothing.
If BoP had not happened,we would have heard nothing for months!
So it looks like we will hear nothing unless a large number of people start getting concerned and ask for updates.



It has been a long time...

[Feuerfalke]

Last time we got any news was when BoP was dropped on us from nowhere,and a large part of the community across several forums got upset.Since then,nothing.
If BoP had not happened,we would have heard nothing for months!
So it looks like we will hear nothing unless a large number of people start getting concerned and ask for updates.

You should state the whole thing: These news were only about BoP, it's origin and the only part of the news concerning BoB in this whole storm in the fishbowl was the statement, that there was no connection between the two titles.

Anything else, that BoP showed planes, effects, textures or objects from BoB was pure assumption of some community guys, who were p*ssed that Oleg sold his soul to the console-market. And all those statements were instantly corrected by those involved in the BoP-project.


So the whole basis of your superficial conclusion is based on the statements that people posted, who have no insight in the project and didn't listen to BoP or BoB developers-statements.

In short: It's plain egocentric and wrong as wrong can be.

[Tree_UK]

Why is the world black and white for so many of you guys?

Read what I wrote:
"Their statement is, that they are not allowed to post news until UBI gives the O.K."

If there is information posted, that doesn't mean this statement is a lie, but that MG and Oleg himself is struggling and stretching it to post news for you guys.

Where may i find this statement from Oleg? The last time we heard from Oleg and Luthier they said that there had been a communication break down and Luthier said he would address this in the future, none of them said "hey guys we got loads of stuff to show you but UBI wont let us"!

[JG52Uther]

Feaurfalke,as far as I am aware,you do not speak for 1C or Oleg.
People would like news thats all.If you do not,then why even bother being here?

[Feuerfalke]

JG52Uther, you still make me wonder.

I answered that especially to you several times before, but here we go again:
I want news as much as you do. But if the news we get says they cannot post as many news as they like to, then I am grown up enough to accept that and see that this is the wrong address to write complains to. I don't need to be an official to do that. It just takes a certain degree of common sense, that's all.

If you think that makes me a brown-nose, so be it.

If you think I am the bad guy, because I quote official posts and not cheerfully join the march of those who claim plain wrong things in order to promote their whining, feel free to do so.

Fact is, though, that it won't make your world any better, doesn't move the release date forward or increase the number of official news released. It never did with any patch or release, though we had the same childish state of mind before every single release in the history of this game and infact most games I know.

So why don't you guys just chill out and act like the grown-ups you probably are in real life - just for a few weeks, maybe, and give these guys a break?

[Tree_UK]

Have you found that statement yet?

[nearmiss]

It is interesting how the UBi Zoo carries on with no news for ages, except second hand information that is posted here first. The game is still available for sale all over the world, so there will always be newbs getting into the IL2.

The collaboration between the Oleg and UbiSoft may be tentative or non existent at this point for all I know.

Regardless, those of us loyal to the author and not the distributor are on this boards.

Oleg, has been good out about responding every month or so. The postings he makes are better than anything I've read on ORR in years. Oleg is available to us on these boards and one a month or once every couple months he responds, which is fine with me. We know there is progress being made.

As far as being disappointed with UbiSoft... Ubisoft has their own band with their own instruments and they aren't interested in playing our songs.

[Tree_UK]

I am still waiting for Feuerfalke to show me this statement that Oleg made. Feuerfalke seems to know most things in here, i really hope he hasn't fallen on his sword on this one.:rolleyes:

[SlipBall]

Yes, the new moderator said there would be new's soon...that was weeks ago. OK, I'll wait:-P

[JG52Uther]

Have you found that statement yet?

http://www.classcaster.org/resserver.php?blogId=41&resource=banninglaptops4.jpg
;)

[Feuerfalke]

http://www.classcaster.org/resserver.php?blogId=41&resource=banninglaptops4.jpg
;)

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/not-funny/1/Funnay-Clippy.jpg

Again you should read what I wrote:

Official statements! doesn't need to be Olegs statement. :rolleyes:


I'm also sorry to hear that your search-button doesn't work. In your names I reported it as a bug to the forum moderators. You know I'm always willing to help.

Well, as I posted before, I've posted links to these sort of statements a couple of times before. On the funny side, it took me 3 seconds with my working search-function to find at least one of the threads. There was another statement in an interview, but you wouldn't read or care anyway, so I save my life-time to post that link - 3 seconds wasted for you kiddies was enough IMHO:

"Ubisoft has all the rights for IL-2 Sturmovik series. They are the publisher of these games outside of Russia, CIS countries and baltic states... The release dates depend on our Western partners and their plans, so sometimes we can't give an exact answer to this question."

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2387

It's about the deal with the new publishers BTW. As you all know, because you are such wise men and so well informed grown-up forum members, updates on SoW stopped just a few days prior to the announcement that all new titles will be published by other companies, except for IL2 and SoW, as there was an existing deal with UBISOFT before. Of course for some of us this fact is either completely ignored or simply a case of odd coincidence.... :rolleyes:

[Chivas]

Yes, they are definitely trying to p*ss us off! The've been planning this for years. How dare they! I may just wait a day after SOW's released to buy it. LMFAO

[jermin]

Please, don't act as an offical spokesman of 1C, Feaurfalke. It really makes me sick.

[WTE_Galway]

Please, don't act as an offical spokesman of 1C, Feaurfalke. It really makes me sick.

If you are angry with 1C you might find it enlightening to look into the history of ubisoft with Il2 and the problems they have caused for this game over the past 6 or 7 years.

[bhunter2112]

Yes...we are all going to buy the game the day it comes out. That is why we have been here for YEARS with IL2, and now we sit and wait for SOW/BOB.
We just want some info on the game. Meaningful updates so we can follow the progress until compleation.
Can someone "in the know" on the Oleg/UBI/1C team give the fan community 30 minutes of their time a week and give us info?

[Feathered_IV]

Please, don't act as an offical spokesman of 1C, Feaurfalke. It really makes me sick.

Me too. I'm so tired of seeing every bloody thread polluted by his boorish commentary. I think I'll take a break from this forum for a while....

[Mysticpuma]

Thing is Feathered, no matter when you come back, there'll still be the same amount of information known as there is now.

As I said, this is a community forum, 1C has called it their 'Official' forum, but what's the point in closing down ORR, starting an 'Official' forum and then having the same amount of feedback and communication as there was on the ORR?

All I'm saying is, please at least have the courteousy to talk with those who are actually showing an interest in the products you have and are working on. Please?

I'm not asking for every single question to have an answer, but at least let us know that comments regarding dll's, patch 4.09 and a Server patch are all being looked at with fixes and update information, when at last, they can be worked on. That of course being when BoB hits the magic marker we have been told of.

See I never said "when?", I asked what features and updates could we expect when they reach that stage of completion in BoB.

It would be nice if posters could try and understand, I'm not looking for a flame war or troll, just read the initial post and let me know if you share the disappointment about the 'Official' forum communication by the developers.

As has been said, when IL2:BoP was announced, the developer Anton was answering questions almost daily about the project.

Everyone gets excited and most are impressed that a developer is hear talking about the product. Anton, I am sure, with 360 schedules must be under an immense amount of pressure, but still took/takes time to talk to those who have shown an intesrest in his project.

Oleg and 1C developers....shhhhhhhhh......can you hear that........no wait......maybe, maybe.........nope......Nothing!

So please understand, I joined the forum so I could keep up on official news and comment on it, especially now ORR is closed (and could be replaced on the IL2 homepage with a link to the Off Topic forum), but it does seem pointless with the lack of input and feedback that we've had since the announcement that this is the place to be for updates!

Cheers, MP

[Feuerfalke]

If you are angry with 1C you might find it enlightening to look into the history of ubisoft with Il2 and the problems they have caused for this game over the past 6 or 7 years.

Awe, come on, Galway. It's sooooo much easier to flame a single person instead of such an abstract thing like as a company! You don't even need to think about what is going on, when you can flame a single forum member, who keeps quoting those statements. Just look at the responses to my post. Nobody even cares what was stated there, just everybody blows skyhigh, because I posted that link. LOL. It changes nothing. They just want to bash somebody because they act like little children, who want candy NOW and it takes a lot more than that to see that there is more to it, than bad ole Oleg torturing his customers, who really, really, really deserve that information, because they just want it soooo much.

What surprises me, though, is the fact that MysticPuma himself is falling back in age to a point where he can't make up his own mind any longer. A man who saw a lot more of BoB than most of us, who talked to Oleg PERSONALLY and quoted him, that there would be news, as soon as they COULD post news and UBISOFT finally decided to officially announce the title. That's what really surprises me about it.

The other statements about the problems with releasing infos (from Oleg, too) are in the OMR-Sticky, btw. IIRC it's just around the point where Oleg quoted me and agreed with me, that the forums really DO have much in common with him driving in his car, his children on the back seat...

And JFYI 1C forums is only the official forum for 1C, not for MG. As you can see in the forum description, this forum is even just for IL2, not for BoB. And some other interesting news about the comparison of BoP and BoB that was stated wrongly again and again: BoP is not published by UBISOFT, but by 1C and Dynamic Systems. Another engine, another contract, another story completely.

@ Feathered_IV
False promises, as always. :rolleyes:

[GF_Mastiff]

. IIRC it's just around the point where Oleg quoted me and agreed with me, that the forums really DO have much in common with him driving in his car, his children on the back seat...


@ Feathered_IV
False promises, as always. :rolleyes: lol

[Mysticpuma]

"What surprises me, though, is the fact that MysticPuma himself is falling back in age to a point where he can't make up his own mind any longer"

I can make up my mind, it's just easier if you do it for me! Lol!

BTW, if I do get another interview, I will post it straight away.....so everyone can at least know something of what could be coming....one day :(

[Feuerfalke]

"What surprises me, though, is the fact that MysticPuma himself is falling back in age to a point where he can't make up his own mind any longer"

I can make up my mind, it's just easier if you do it for me! Lol!

BTW, if I do get another interview, I will post it straight away.....so everyone can at least know something of what could be coming....one day :(

Heh, just that there won't be another chance for an interview until UBISOFT announces the title. Even in that interview back then, if I may remind you, you stated that MG showed their game off in a pretty hard to find area in the back. That was even before that struggle about the contracts and the ban of silence from UBISOFT. ;)

[Tree_UK]

Well Feuerfalke i have read all of your patronizing bollocks, and i still see no statement from anybody (other than yourself) that UBI will not allow any updates without their approval. Its time you stopped making out that your somebody important.

[Feuerfalke]

I'll stop as soon as you do. Infact I only restarted because you did. ;)

And BTW, I didn't say that UBISOFT doesn't allow updates, I posted that UBISOFT has all the rights and they say when things will be announced or released. Slight difference, but to the same effect, honestly.

[Tree_UK]

I'll stop as soon as you do. Infact I only restarted because you did. ;) .


:grin::grin::grin: I was just making out i was important, because i thought you really were important. :):confused:

[Skarphol]

Guys, guys, you are really amazing me!

Firstly that you, Feuerfalke, really see a point in taking the time to answer the same questions over and over again. I have a tendency to go nuts when my children ask the same question wich I have allready answered before several times. And you must have noticed that most questions are not directed to you, and that a lot of people are not very satisfied by your answers anyway.

Secondly, that all of you other guys get so upset by Feuerfalkes answers. We all know pretty much what his opinion is in these matters anyway, so why just not ignore his answers if they are so offensive?

I think we all are quite disappointed whith this forum, most of us remember so well the happy times around 2002 when we had frequent updates and news, but we are in no position to demand anything!

You guys need to calm down a bit. It's summer in the northern hemisphere! Go out and have som fun! Look at the chicks! They are wearing skirts!!

Skarphol

[Feuerfalke]

Well, Skarphol, that's what I'm saying. This is not because people want updates. We all know that there will be updates. The thing is just that some people just can't take waiting for it and use these media to vent. It's nothing more than that.

I also agree that we had a different time when the original IL2 was released. Things were quite different for a lot of reasons. Oleg and UBI had little to lose, as they didn't estimate the impact of this sim, nobody started preemptive complains about content and problems with the game and the only people that were active on the forums were fans, who hoped for a great simulation.

Over time more and more people got p*ssed. Their favorite plane got porked, Cal50s don't kill Tigers, FW190s are crippled because the refraction of the glass is not modeled, the sounds sux so bad you can barely take it, it has not 6DOF, etc. It's first really bad climax was reached with PacificFighters, when people started to threaten Oleg personally with lawyers and stuff and while MG natural reaction to that was to keep silence more and more, that just got more people upset.
Now we are in a situation that UBISOFT, MG and 1C remain silent about this project, for various reasons stated a dozen times before and we are reaching a new sad climax.

My mission is not to lecture people, like most people claim. But this ravage against MG is the worst thing this community could do and the most effective way to cease support from either side, may it be UBISOFT, 1C, MG or Oleg himself. Just look at the responses to the latest updates? They're even flaming MG because the only show models.


No, Sir, this has gone far beyond the interest in this sim or in news about BoB. This is a flamewar against a publisher and a developer. It's a bad thing to do and it's a bad way things are turning, on the short term and on the long term for this whole upcoming brand.
You guys keep talking about bad advertisement for this simulation from MG and UBISOFT, but it is THIS COMMUNITY who is making the only bad advertisement there is, the worst propaganda for this sim ever and you're doing exactly the opposite of what you'd like to see or what you claim to do. In the meanwhile, I was even asked by gamemagazines what is going on in this community and why they are constantly flaming the developers. Guys, don't you realize your complains are not in private, but clearly visible for everybody inside and out?
Go ahead and claim to have the right to do so, if you really need to. You will all have to take the consequences sooner or later. If you don't see that, I'm just sorry for you and those who really love to see a long fortunate life of this sim.

[Bobb4]

And BTW, I didn't say that UBISOFT doesn't allow updates, I posted that UBISOFT has all the rights and they say when things will be announced or released. Slight difference, but to the same effect, honestly.

E3 has come and gone, Ubisoft made no announcement about SOW BoB.
From the tiny amounts of useful information in this carbled thread I can deduce one thing.
There will be no SOW in 2008.
And frankly thats good enough for me.
Who ends up publishing it in Europe or the USA does not concern me. I live in Africa and we are used to waiting.

Point to think about:

If I had just brough out a piece of a doggy doo-doo console game called "Birds of Prey" I sure would not be announcing anything about a state-of-the-art PC flight sim that will have the console fanboys complaining they had been short-changed. (not meant as an insult to developers, but lets face it, flying a plane on a console, lets get real? They will never experience anything...)

I would just lay low for a while and once copies of my console game were flying off the selve and I had made my dough then and only then would I remind the world that the alpha and omega of flight sims was just around the corner.
Maybe even a console version as well :rolleyes:

[Feuerfalke]

Reasonable, Bobb4.

I was not surprised that there was no official announcement on this years E3, as it was a shadow of the E3 that it used to be. IIRC there were just minor announcements for the whole business on this years E3, especially compared to the news on the gaming market that were published in the weeks before.
As many critics say, E3 2008 was insufficient in many regards, especially considering it was AFTER titles for this winter were announced. There may be informations on this years GamesConvention in Germany, considering UBISOFT is a European company, the former plans for a takeover of UBISOFT by an US-publisher and the later date offering some further options - but I won't place my bets on it.

Considering all the bits of information we have, I also agree that there will be no release in 2008. I don't know how much BoP has to do with it, as it's another publisher for the western world and another developer, but considering the history of IL2 and the circumstances, I bet UBI will announce and advertise the game a pretty short time before the release, only after it's perfectly clear what will be in and what not and at a stage where it's clear that competitors will not be able to benefit from that information prior to BoBs release.

[Bobb4]

And in the marketing game there is no such thing as bad publicity. And in any forum you will find arogant, self-rightious and idiotic people. (please note I do not exclude myself from this category)
Anyone who believes half of what they read in any forum need their heads read.
I am doggedly loyal to IL2 because I fly it daily online. On warbirds of prey or ADW or our own South African sgs servers I fly. On Ts channels I talk to flyers from all over the world and only one thing matters... "The moment that enemy plane drifts into your sights and you squeeze the trigger or the moment a wingman clears your six" ...Flying to live or living to fly you take your pick.
So if SOW never gets off the ground I will still be flying and if it does I will just be a happier flyer.

[Feuerfalke]

That's not that simple. As long as people keep bashing a person, they and the guy they flame are just forum-morons to any outsider, just as you said. Bashing the developer falls back on the community, the brand and the team and a lot of sources are very sensitive to that.

[Tree_UK]

I dont see any bashing or flaming of Oleg/1C/Ubi taking place in this thread, no-one is asking "when is this sim going to be out". We all know its a long way off. This thread was started by Mysticpuma who raised a valid concern about the lack of communication from Oleg/1C/Ubi. Is that being flamed or bashed, i think not, its just a simple fact. It doesn't matter how you want to flower it up, or what the reasons are, at the end of the day there is very little communication. Some people dont mind being kept in the dark, others find it frustrating - its life.
This is a forum, a place where you can express your concerns, yet sadly it seems that those that do end up getting bashed or flamed themselves.

[Mysticpuma]

"This thread was started by Mysticpuma who raised a valid concern about the lack of communication from Oleg/1C/Ubi. Is that being flamed or bashed, i think not, its just a simple fact."

Thanks Tree, that was exactly my point.

Cheers, MP.

[2Jasta11_Niederhoff]

Sorry for my bad English!

I didnt understand why Birds of Prey will be released first than SOW. The PC players and fans made IL2 sturmovick famous.

Why us, PC players were simply abbandoned? And about our fidelity to the sim! Why they decided to release the console sim first?

[2Jasta11_Niederhoff]

I expect that when BoB will released it be really good! Fantastic? Despite this it will be very frustrating wait for all this and dint have a lot of improvements.

I want to believe that BOB are late because they are developing amazing things!

[Tree_UK]

BOP apparently has no connection to SOW if we believe what we have been told.

[nearmiss]

I expect that when BoB will released it be really good! Fantastic? Despite this it will be very frustrating wait for all this and dint have a lot of improvements.

I want to believe that BOB are late because they are developing amazing things!

My understanding... Birds of Prey is a spin off IL2 using IL2 aircraft. It is not a combat flight simulator it is more of an arcade thing.

So, all the dev had to do is license the Il2 aircaft and stuff, then program is game.

[ElAurens]

Gents, some of you know me, I've been around the sim a long time. Here's my take on things.

1. Every time Oleg shows his face here or at the Ubizoo he gets flamed, every single time. Why would anyone want to repeat that that experience? So stop begging him to show up, and use a little common sense and gentlemanly comportment in your replies when he, or any member of the dev team does post here.

2. As has been said over and over and over again, even if Oleg wanted to post every day on development of the new sim he could not owing to contractual restraints placed on MG by UBIsoft. If your boss says to not do something, do you do it anyway?

3. What exactly is the beef with the dev screens posted so far, other than they are infrequent? Some of them have been quite revealing of the level of detail we can expect. "But we want in game shots!!!111!!" Oh really? Does anyone remember the alpha screenshots of the original IL2? I do, they looked nothing like the release. What makes you think alpha screens of SOW would be any different?

4. This is just my take on things, but I believe that what Oleg and his team are making is going to be far ahead of anything that has ever been attempted in this genre. So far ahead in fact that they cannot afford to risk tipping their hand to another developer in any way. Even in seemingly "harmless" dev posts for us.

So why don't we just move along and enjoy the software we already have? It is, after all, still the best prop sim ever created.

See you in Hyperlobby.

:cool:

[Rjel]

4. This is just my take on things, but I believe that what Oleg and his team are making is going to be far ahead of anything that has ever been attempted in this genre. So far ahead in fact that they cannot afford to risk tipping their hand to another developer in any way. Even in seemingly "harmless" dev posts for us.


If what you say is the reason and it may well be, given how long SoW has been in development and advanced as it sounds like it is, how could another developer glean any information posted here that could bring a product to market before Oleg's game? It just doesn't make sense. But all of these arguments have been discussed before. If Oleg's hands are tied by Ubi when it comes to discussing his product, then they're obviously doing more damage to possible sales of SoW than could be done by pre-release information that may or may not be accurate.

[zapatista]

"This thread was started by Mysticpuma who raised a valid concern about the lack of communication from Oleg/1C/Ubi. Is that being flamed or bashed, i think not, its just a simple fact."

Thanks Tree, that was exactly my point.

Cheers, MP.

i think the simple fact is that Oleg doesnt need his previous fan base anymore to help him with future commercial success of the various projects he is currently involved with, and he has no direct time pressures for BoB's release either.

to me it seems obvious that since the start of the BoB project there have been some major changes in olegs plans, from trying to create one single flightsim product that was the successor to il2 (and therefore needing its old fanbase more to help create publicity), he has now branched out into multiple products (civilian aerobatic sim, korean sim, movie and documentary makers using it as an animation bas similar to CGI even ?) and is tapping the console money cow for revenue (yes even if he doesnt directly create BoP, it will be a revenue stream for him)

to the western mind completely neglecting his old fan base might seem like being bad commerce and rude (he did state he was giving again regular monthly or bi-monthly updates in nov 07 because his project was getting "closer to release", and for 6 months now he hasnt done this or answered his regular question sessions), but i think other projects are taking to much of his time now and we simply are not a priority.

the east european attitude seems very different. for ex look at the korean sim issue, for years people have been hoping for a new sim in that area. for more then 2 years the website of oleg's buddy has posted the odd screenshot hinting at that, and now 2 months ago that is the screenshots we get here are confirming its production is in full swing, yet no other announcements to the korean sim website enthusiasts or fan base, or even an update on the developers website to confirm the cat is out of the bag and the product is confirmed.

i suspect oleg's team is also quiet small compared to large software manufactures that create games for consoles and have big money behind them, so any other project that takes their attention slows down BoB (emm they cant even spare one or 2 hrs to produce the final 4.09 patch).

the bottom line, we just have to be thankfull oleg still aims to produce a high quality sequel to il2, but him keeping us informed (by one of his staff members) is just not a priority.

[Bearcat]

I feel your pain MP... and I agree.. I understand why we have no communication.... sort of... but I would like more as well. One of the things that sucked me into IL2 in the beginning was the developer interaction.. something tat was undheard of to me at the time.

[wjc103]

Seems to me that expectations are so high, that no matter what, unless SOW is second only to the holodeck in star trek, a lot of people will be disapointed with whatever the final product is. Anyone disagree?

[wjc103]

My real question to everyone is what is everyone really expecting here? What are the features that could be possible and that would really set this sim apart from everything else out there? Based on everyone's knowledge to the subject I'm realy curious what people are expecting.

[2Jasta11_Niederhoff]

Seems to me that expectations are so high, that no matter what, unless SOW is second only to the holodeck in star trek, a lot of people will be disapointed with whatever the final product is. Anyone disagree?

I hope that one of the causes to BoB be so late is that Oleg and his team are working to make this sim really great like posted some messages before.

Lets wait and see!

[Rjel]

Honestly for me, BoB has to be able to have realistically massive formations to be successful. At least when it comes to offline play. Otherwise it'll be little more than what we have now. A great sim with little immersion when it comes to campaigns. At least those that shipped with IL2. Going back to LucasArts BoB:TFH, I felt that old game was more immersive than IL2 ever was. But then again, it was my first computer sim so maybe it just seemed that way because it was all so new to me.

[Bearcat]

Seems to me that expectations are so high, that no matter what, unless SOW is second only to the holodeck in star trek, a lot of people will be disapointed with whatever the final product is. Anyone disagree?

I do... I don't think I'll be dissapointed. What I am expecting is a top notch WWII era combat flight sim with graphics DMs and FMs that are better than this one. I am expecting better AI, more versatile AI, better looking more immersive eye candy.. as in ground objects, clouds weather etc... I am expecting to have a sim that no matter what PC developements come out in the next 5 years.. short of holographic 3D monitors, will get a bump from any hardware improvements I make over that time period.. and most likely beyond, even if I start with a rig that is better than the Fx-60, 7950GX2, 4G DDR 400, Xi-Fi G, 24" LCD WS on a 800W BFG PS rig I am currently using.

I am expecting to be surprised, and pleased.... I am expecting basically what I got in this sim , only updated to reflect the current state of technology.

This sim engine, even with it's tweaks is still basically the FB engine.. (OK.... so I wont even go with the IL2 engine.. I'll start from FB.. ) which is what... at least 5 years old? When I yupgraded my processor & video to what I now have from my old Fx-50 6800GTOcd.. I saw an improvement.... and ti looked good before... when I upgraded from my old XP3200 to the first Fx.. I saw an improvement... and it looked good before... When this engine was made the top of the line was what? Some kind of P-IV right? Or the XP3200.. or was it the 2800? Radeon 9800 Pro.. and it still even after all this time, gets better wit more beef in the rig dept.

Thats what I am expecting with SoW.

I am expecting those little details that caused so many of the OOooooo & ahahhaaa moment s that I got with this sim, and still get from time to time.

I don't know what some of you are expecting.. but thats what I am expecting.. and until 1C proves otherwise.. I will keep on expecting that..

[Chivas]

My real question to everyone is what is everyone really expecting here? What are the features that could be possible and that would really set this sim apart from everything else out there? Based on everyone's knowledge to the subject I'm realy curious what people are expecting.



I expect better FM, DM, Aircraft models, AI, Terrain, moving Weather Systems, and Ground Crews with some civilian activity. A more complex mission builder with triggers. I have no doubt all these aspects will be improved over what we've had in the IL-2 series, automaticaly making it the next benchmark in combat flight simming. The only aspect I'm not sure will be in the first addition of the SOW series, is Ground Crew activity, but there have been enough hints that it may be included at some point.

Also I don't need ultra realistic starting procedures, but having the ability to map the magnetos, fuel switches, fuel pump, and starter to a Hotas for a slightly more complex engine start would be immersive. Especially when your base is being raided and your trying to get your kite off the deck as quickly as possible. I know alot of people will not prime the pumps enough in the excitement. Oleg wasn't to responsive to having more complex engine starts, but I'm hoping that the tools given to modders can make this happen.

[Tree_UK]

I think the longer SOW takes to complete the more people will expect from it, you can imagine if it disappoints people will be saying "6 years for that!!".

[LEXX]

I think I'm more interested in Luthier Korea right now, but either one sounds interesting.


What yall think makes it first...?

Duke Nukem Forever

TargetWare Forever

BoB And Beyond Forever

[Chivas]

I think the longer SOW takes to complete the more people will expect from it, you can imagine if it disappoints people will be saying "6 years for that!!".


I agree there will always be disappointed people no matter how good SOW turns out to be. I've always been able to see the good points and accept the lesser points. I'm not talented enough to do a better job and rely on groups like MG for my simming enjoyment.

[Robert]

I honestly understand the frustration from the community. We all want this sim released and barring any news of said release then some info would be nice to have.

I recognise many of you from around the forums, and I dare say most of us have been here since the early days of IL2 and FB. That being the case, how many of us remember patches being 'released' earlier than expected? Someone got the 'beta' code of the patch and made it availible to the masses before it was finalized. I still remember the hooplah over the FMs in 4.01 unofficial verses 4.01 official. This happened on every patch released. Who released the unofficial patches early? IDK.

We can speculate all we want on the relation with 1C and UBI, but I'm not sure anything is in stone, nor can be clarified beyond what we've read prior, but potentially that's another obstacle in availible information to us forum members.

With computer games being copied and illegally distributed, with a new game engine needing to be protected from the competition, and possibly legal ramifications of plane names and copyright, there are issues that require a sense of delicacy in what is revealed or not revealed.

I highly doubt anyone at 1C/Maddox is keeping information from us so he can form bad customer relations. He knows we're excited and chomping at the bit for any scrap of useful info. Then again there may be nothing new to release to us. As much as I enjoy and am happy to get pictures of planes, I'd rather have something with more meat to Oleg's released info.

There may be more going on than we realize, and his interests and relations with his associations need to be maintained.

[Chivas]

I honestly understand the frustration from the community. We all want this sim released and barring any news of said release then some info would be nice to have.

I recognise many of you from around the forums, and I dare say most of us have been here since the early days of IL2 and FB. That being the case, how many of us remember patches being 'released' earlier than expected? Someone got the 'beta' code of the patch and made it availible to the masses before it was finalized. I still remember the hooplah over the FMs in 4.01 unofficial verses 4.01 official. This happened on every patch released. Who released the unofficial patches early? IDK.

We can speculate all we want on the relation with 1C and UBI, but I'm not sure anything is in stone, nor can be clarified beyond what we've read prior, but potentially that's another obstacle in availible information to us forum members.

With computer games being copied and illegally distributed, with a new game engine needing to be protected from the competition, and possibly legal ramifications of plane names and copyright, there are issues that require a sense of delicacy in what is revealed or not revealed.

I highly doubt anyone at 1C/Maddox is keeping information from us so he can form bad customer relations. He knows we're excited and chomping at the bit for any scrap of useful info. Then again there may be nothing new to release to us. As much as I enjoy and am happy to get pictures of planes, I'd rather have something with more meat to Oleg's released info.

There may be more going on than we realize, and his interests and relations with his associations need to be maintained.

+1

[2Jasta11_Niederhoff]

Unfornutaly what i would like to see modeled its quite impossible to simulate in a reliable way. Im saying about g effects at higher acellerations. I think that generally combat sims favorizes turning combats and aircraft with better turning ratio due to lack of g and higher acelleration effects.

[robtek]

i think the g´s will be simulated in form of black or red outs as they are in il2 already.
what i hope is, that in planes who have a less than perfect seat/body position (like spit and hurri, compared to 109 and 190) those effects are stronger.

[MOH_Hirth]

What is the problem OLeg came here and say Hello? Need we know by another sites what is go on in IL-2 or SOW? Was this way with IL-2 for console version... we deserve more atention.

[ElAurens]

I think you are all thinking inside the box.

I don't think Oleg is.

I firmly believe that once SOW is released, that FB/PF/1946 will be forgotten in less than a year, all mods and US Navy fanbois not withstanding.

;)

[JG52Uther]

I think you are all thinking inside the box.

I don't think Oleg is.

I firmly believe that once SOW is released, that FB/PF/1946 will be forgotten in less than a year, all mods and US Navy fanbois not withstanding.

;)

Yes but what year! ;)

[WhiteSnake]

I hope for Oleg hese making the game for DX11 or it will be hoppelessly outdated by the time it comes out ;)

Seriously i do hope the game uses DX10/DX10.1, light, reflections and smoke just would look awsome than, sill dont believe that OpenGL is capable of detail but i could be wrong...

[Sturm_Williger]

I think you are all thinking inside the box.

I don't think Oleg is.

I firmly believe that once SOW is released, that FB/PF/1946 will be forgotten in less than a year, all mods and US Navy fanbois not withstanding.

;)

Respectfully, I must disagree.
Sure, I expect great things from SOW:BoB, but it will be some time before any other addons( theatres ) show up.

So when I have a yen to fly
Late War ( anything after 1941 really )
Eastern Front
Pacific
Med
you can be sure I'll be strapping on the trusty 1946.

and as further theatres get released for SOW, the times I fire up IL2 will diminish. But it wont be within one year, be sure !

[jermin]

+111111111111111111111111111111111111

[Chivas]

If SOW terrain graphics are better than the high definition movie I've just seen of BOP then FB, as good as it is, will be deleted from my harddrive. Dynamic weather over a believable terrain with a living world, will make flying FB like going back and playing Pong.

[robtek]

I hope for Oleg hese making the game for DX11 or it will be hoppelessly outdated by the time it comes out ;)

Seriously i do hope the game uses DX10/DX10.1, light, reflections and smoke just would look awsome than, sill dont believe that OpenGL is capable of detail but i could be wrong...

afaik its been said that BoB:SoW will still use OpenGL and not DirectX as standard language.

[Thunderbolt56]

I hope for Oleg hese making the game for DX11 or it will be hoppelessly outdated by the time it comes out ;)

Seriously i do hope the game uses DX10/DX10.1, light, reflections and smoke just would look awsome than, sill dont believe that OpenGL is capable of detail but i could be wrong...


Unless something's changed, it will be DX9.0c.