Il-2 MODs

[ALien_12]

What are you think about it?
Those who dosen't know what a hell i am talking about, click on my Signature
I think it's great addon for great sim.

[Feuerfalke]

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/Tits-Or-GTFO/1/315737231_c3c213a38e.jpg

:rolleyes:

[proton45]

Maybe I'm a little dense but...whats the point of this thread?

Are you telling us about the game mods that we already know about (and have been discussing for several months)???

p.s. I just wonder if I'm missing something...

[Feuerfalke]

Maybe I'm a little dense but...whats the point of this thread?

Are you telling us about the game mods that we already know about (and have been discussing for several months)???

p.s. I just wonder if I'm missing something...

Yeah, you miss the link to the forum that was deleted a few minutes after this thread was created. ;)

A pitty he didn't have the guts to keep it. Would be something really new. The way it is, it's merely spam.

[robtek]

the link is in the signature, i believe.

[ALien_12]

No! I giving you question:
WHAT ARE YOU THINK ABOUT MODS FOR IL-2???!!!

[Feuerfalke]

the link is in the signature, i believe.

It is now - he posted a link in the text before that.


@ ALien_12
I am think that you are ban - I know it won't happen, but God, would I like that. ;)

[Bearcat]

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/Tits-Or-GTFO/1/315737231_c3c213a38e.jpg

:rolleyes:

That post reminds me of someone I havent heard from in a while... LOL

[fireflyerz]

:arrow:For me they were a great asset , I think even Oleg would agree the one area the game was lacking in ,was sound, mabe not in the early days but later with other less detailed but better sounding games hitting the market , hence the huge migration to sites offering a sound mod.
Without the sound mod I dont think I would have continued to make movies
from this game , I only hope we see vastly improved sounds in BoB in fact Ill ask him this next time he's about 1C.

[Feuerfalke]

That post reminds me of someone I havent heard from in a while... LOL

If I get banned for that, while somebody posts links in a thread (even if he removed it now), I'll gladly take my hat.

On a sidenote, though, posting nude-pictures is not forbidden here, as long as different sexually motivated or other people are not discriminated, while posting links to illegal programs is as well as advertising them. Don't know about your sexual motivations, but I don't think this picture is discriminating at all. ;)

[Beowulf]

That post reminds me of someone I havent heard from in a while... LOL

Ah, that might be Billfish's rack!!! :P

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

No! I giving you question:
WHAT ARE YOU THINK ABOUT MODS FOR IL-2???!!!

Hang on Fellas! I think hes trying to comunicate.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Gt-GY2y0o

[Golden_Eagle_FM]

I did not know Oleg was now working on ET flight simulator.
Now I understand why we will never get to BoB-SoW.

Gold

[proton45]

Hang on Fellas! I think hes trying to comunicate.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Gt-GY2y0o


We never have discussed the IL2 mods...maybe we should give it a try? :)

[nearmiss]

Hang on Fellas! I think hes trying to comunicate.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Gt-GY2y0o

The music was fun, nipple head was a pain to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyBdS3DLTVY

I'd rather listen to Wanda and have a nice Sherry. This was recorded in 1927.

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

We never have discussed the IL2 mods...maybe we should give it a try? :) yea i think it makes sense,it only improves things so it is a positive!Nice piano solo there Nearmiss..

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

hi guys , as this is my first post id like to thank Oleg for the masterpeice "IL2 " an obsolute masterpeice which ive been playing for years. Thanks man!
Secondly i cant belive you guys , i mean your like ostriches, burying you head in the sand over the the whole prospect of mods. I too was like you , mods are bad, stay clear , will bring an end to online dogfights. but after carefull consideration i took the plunge and just had a peek at what was goin on. The lads at All Aircraft Arcade have done a wonderful job of updateing this ageing game. The sounds are truely amazing( even though some work still needs to be done) cockpits have been re-painted to a high standard, start up smoke from exhaust stacks are a few mods that credit the game.
Unfortunatly you will get idiots who are born loosers that want the quick route to become an ace. but you would get that in any game.. You guys should look at what they have done.. Im sure oleg would be impressed, they have brought this old game up to date.

thanks!

[kristorf]

Just a quick reply with no flaming or slagging.

IMHO most of the mods have been nothing but a boost for this (aged) game, prolonging it for a good few years.
Lots are very good (maps, A/C, effects etc) while some are, to say the least, 'dodgy', however at the end of the day it is up to the individual to decide one way or another.

Me, 100% for them

[SlipBall]

Hacking this sim was bad idea! It only increased the work load for Oleg, and delivered the eliment of doubt for on-line competition.

[fireflyerz]

:arrow:One small point which I think has bin vastly overlooked...in order to use the mods you have to have had the Doovde version of the game as the the download version didnt work with the mods , enough said on that matter as it speaks for its self in terms of sales . AAA have done a good job at keeping a lid on the cheating and have done alot more in terms of atracting new commers to the genere and keeping them immersed and interested in what was a very outdated game by todays standards , its true to say that if I was OLeg I would have bin very angry at somone crackin my game , but I think now he may be using it as a bench mark of what people expect from his future products , this is Jafa ,hoping for better sounds in Storm of War , signing off....:(:):grin:

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

Hacking this sim was bad idea! It only increased the work load for Oleg, and delivered the eliment of doubt for on-line competition.

Ha, have you actually looked at the mods?
http://www.allaircraftarcade.com/forum/
you dont have to download them to have a look;). and check out the "work in progress" aircraft.. wellington bomber being on of them. oleg should employ them , we may get B.O.B quicker ;)

[JG53Harti]

Hacking this sim was bad idea! It only increased the work load for Oleg, and delivered the eliment of doubt for on-line competition.



http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Tree_UK]

Channel Map is fantastic work, and it has brought new life to a sim long forgotten about by its creator. Well done modders.

[SlipBall]

Ha, have you actually looked at the mods?
http://www.allaircraftarcade.com/forum/
you dont have to download them to have a look;). and check out the "work in progress" aircraft.. wellington bomber being on of them. oleg should employ them , we may get B.O.B quicker ;)



I'm not saying that the mods are done poorly, some might be quite good. I am saying that when you have a sim with a large on-line following. People need to show some respect for the community at large. They need to sacrifice what could be, so that all will have faith that the sim is secure, and fair to one and all. To burden 1C with the extra work, only effect's the lot of us, with longer wait time for what we want, 4.09, and SOW :)

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

slipball, how can this be a burden to 1C? Oleg has already stated that he needs to turn his attention to BOB. 409 is way down on his 2 do list . and if you think he still is ,how long does he want from beta release, Its been a year maybe?
anyway AAA have done a good job with keeping things above board as much as they can..
Also food for thought , the code was cracked and released by a russian . go figure :rolleyes:

[MOH_Hirth]

Rigth now there a new mode with intermitent fire on plane, like we see in guncam videos, tell me if this is not a progress and good idea? And i have shure SOW will be much better
if let space for freedon of creation.

[311thCopperhead]

Hmmmm what do i think about the Mods.

I think they suck. 1/2 @ss done trash by ppl who have next to zero idea what thier doing. the majority of wich are passing out cheat files in private amongst themselvs like thier halloween candy. All under the guise of "we're making the sim better". then they're asking for "DONATIONS" to thier web site.
they are taking a profit off of other peoples hard work. thier bleeding the life blood right out of the sim while at the same time draining Olegs pockets dry. and most of the garbage they've put out would never meet Olegs high standerds.
Not to mention they have even further devided a comunity that was already splinterd. If you choose to fly a CLEAN install online...good luck finding a server or a coop in with to do it. You can literally count on one hand the servers that specifiy they are mod free on one hand. and lets face it. not all of them are tha golden angels they claim to be. there are a great many of the mod users who are just out for the exploits and mod files so they can pad thier kill counts and thier egos.
CFS2 died becuse of BS like this in case anyone cares to remember. (not the only reason i know, but it was the contributing factor in it's down fall.)

As of tonight however it seems that thier web site is down. one can only wonder if it's due to thier web host shuting them down for failure of payment for the monster fees they have accumulated or if Oleg finally has had enough and had them shut down due to infringment. Whatever the case may be....good ridance. don't let the door hit ya in the @ss on the way out.

that's what i think about em. While ican't say that over at the UBIzoo anymore with out being threatend witha perma-ban...i can sure as heck say it here.

as for what Oleg thinks about it....was posted on another thread here.

and for those hack kids who seem to be deaf dumb and blind to olegs opinion on all this, in spite of his other open statements he made showing how damaging all this hack nonsense is.

from a recent russian forum post by oleg...

"В общем так. Будет 4.09, но не знаю еще когда. Там будет защита от хакеров нового типа. Вопрос в том, что это может иногда ухудшить скорость передачи данных. Мы могли это сделать и раньше, но не делали именно поэтому.
Мы могли вообще все на компьютере юзера проверять, но это было бы противозаконно (хотя наиболее просто и действенно...).
В общем мешают нам нормально БоБ-ом заниматься... Готовились только дополнение выпустить, а теперь придеться отложить... пока не сделаем, что сказал.
Не люблю я читеров.... И Ил-2 не предназначался для моддеров... Поэтому так долго и живет в онлайне..."

roughly translates as.... (ivan can maybe be more accurate)

"So - there'll be 4.09 patch, don't know how soon yet. 4.09 patch will have protection from this hack, but it will sometimes increase traffic load. We could do it before, but did not do it for this reason.
The easiest way - do some checks at client side, it will be very effective but illegally.
All this problems delay readiness of addon for IL-2 and BOB"
Also, Oleg said that he don't like cheaters and Il2 was not supposed to have mods. That's why it popular in online long time.


did the hack kiddies miss the points oleg made ?
- its delaying work on BoB !
- its delaying the 4.09 release for the rest of us
- the hack crap will be closed again shortly, so go back under the rock where you came from, and stroke eachother there without bothering the rest of us with your juvenile crap
- hacking files results in cheating online, and this makes il2 less popular in online use
- the new hack fix will increase BW demands, and could make it much harder for low BW people to play online

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

wow copperhead, such strong views there m8, As i am a regualer flyer on HL lets point out some facts .
1) most of the people who fly Il2 are of an average age of 45.(our oldest memeber in MD was 86)Infact one our our members is an university lecturer. Unless they have some serious issue`s with their personality why would they wanna cheat? I For one am 34 , I DO NOT CHEAT nor do i have the desire to cheat.
2) The people at AAA have strong views on making sure that exsiting FM or load out is NOT changed .And that Mods that are introduced are HISTORICAL with factual evidence
3) The aaa have introduced a "unified Mod Installer" which if everyone downloaded , servers could run at Check time =2
3) The mods that are available on the aaa website consist of the following:
cockpit re-paints, mirrors , ai cockpits, exhaust stack smoke , tyre screech, bullet impact sounds, new planes to name a few..

Copperhead, im not trying to covert peeps, but saying that quote"I think they suck. 1/2 @ss done trash by ppl who have next to zero idea what thier doing. the majority of wich are passing out cheat files in private amongst themselvs like thier halloween candy."is rather rude and slanderous, where is your evidence man? If also i could offer some advice? If you having trouble with cheats, fly smart. Cheaters usually come in the form of spotty faced kidz(sorry for the stereotype here) who cant be bothered to learn the hard way.These types of people usually fly low `n` slow in TnB fights.. Easy meals mate. :-P

[Ravenous]

Christ, Copperhead needs to calm down; does anyone have a valium or something for him?;)

I can understand your views on the mods as being a "threat" to the online community, but I dare you to say "1/2 @ass trash by ppl who have no idea what they are doing" if you take a tiny peek on their site or the videos of modded IL on youtube

And just as an afterthought; sorry for spoiling your rage dude, but the modders have IMPROVED on many of the aspects of the game that have been complained about for YEARS without MG ever doing anything about it in a standard that in some ways are better than the standard of the game itself.

(better sounds, tire screech on landing, exhaust flames on ignition, new maps, new flyable planes, the infamous Fw190-bar, the REAL differences between the Bf109 models, gyro-sights for the planes that actually had them, and lots more that I dont remember right now) do yourself a favor and atleast check your facts before you start calling names and pointing your finger;)

just my thoughts on the subject..

[JG53Harti]

I do not say it very often, but in this point Copperhead is right

[Furio]

Maybe the question was already posed. If so, excuse me, please.
Oleg is the owner of the game. He is contrary to hacking and mods. So, hacking and mods are an abuse, and it doesn’t matter if they are good or bad, if they IMPROVE or not the game. Can anyone tell me where and how my reasoning is wrong?

[FA_Retro-Burn]

At any rate, it does show how deep in details the sim community is. No matter how it pans out, if the developers take away the vast knowledge base of its members then you will have simulations that will always "up the bar".

[Bearcat]

I'm not saying that the mods are done poorly, some might be quite good. I am saying that when you have a sim with a large on-line following. People need to show some respect for the community at large. They need to sacrifice what could be, so that all will have faith that the sim is secure, and fair to one and all. To burden 1C with the extra work, only effect's the lot of us, with longer wait time for what we want, 4.09, and SOW :)


I disagree.. I agree in principle.. but considering that :

There has been a small group of people that anyone who has been around here for any length of time knows about, who have had the ability to hack the sim and kept it to themselves.. as far back as 3 or 4 years ago.

Oleg said that he wasn't going to be doing more work on this sim after 4.09.. that all his resources would be dedicated to SoW.

and the real kicker....

Like or not, the sim has been hacked... to act like it hasn't been instead of dealing with that fact is just plain stupid. To vilify those who have decided to use the mods that are now out there who have no intention of cheating, or to criminalize those who have taken advantage of the fact that the sim has been cracked and have come up with some really good things... some of which were asked for since the sim's innception (This is NOT to fault Oleg or 1C in anyway for not including some of these things into the sim at all, just a statement of the facts.) is wrong. More wrong than using the mods.... To DENY that some of those mods are very well done, (that Italy Africa Greece map is a thing of beauty... ) or to keep harping on the widespread cheating that we all, myself included initially. thought would come from the hacking of the sim, that never came to pass is equally stupid, narrow minded and again... just plain wrong.

Now I cant deny that the initial hack was wrong.. and I sat on the fence with these mods for quite some time because I wanted to see for myself how things went. If the widespread cheating scenario we all feared had come to pass I would not have touched them... but my position on this has always been the same since this all started (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4861079006/p/1) except that I have come to realize, and I cant help but think it is either a testament to this community, Oleg & 1C's creation or a combination of the two, because he did raise the standards to a new height that cheating and modding are not the same. In spite of what I have seen in other sims and heard of in other online venues (Simming is the only thing I really do like this... ), this time around the cheats have not taken over. I have yet to be on a server where I questioned my getting shot down or could attribute that to anything but either a better pilot or me making the last mistake.

Hmmmm what do i think about the Mods.
I think they suck. 1/2 @ss done trash by ppl who have next to zero idea what thier doing. the majority of wich are passing out cheat files in private amongst themselvs like thier halloween candy. All under the guise of "we're making the sim better". then they're asking for "DONATIONS" to thier web site.
they are taking a profit off of other peoples hard work. thier bleeding the life blood right out of the sim while at the same time draining Olegs pockets dry. and most of the garbage they've put out would never meet Olegs high standerds.
Not to mention they have even further devided a comunity that was already splinterd. If you choose to fly a CLEAN install online...good luck finding a server or a coop in with to do it. You can literally count on one hand the servers that specifiy they are mod free on one hand. and lets face it. not all of them are tha golden angels they claim to be. there are a great many of the mod users who are just out for the exploits and mod files so they can pad thier kill counts and thier egos.
CFS2 died becuse of BS like this in case anyone cares to remember. (not the only reason i know, but it was the contributing factor in it's down fall.)

As of tonight however it seems that thier web site is down. one can only wonder if it's due to thier web host shuting them down for failure of payment for the monster fees they have accumulated or if Oleg finally has had enough and had them shut down due to infringment. Whatever the case may be....good ridance. don't let the door hit ya in the @ss on the way out.
that's what i think about em. While ican't say that over at the UBIzoo anymore with out being threatend witha perma-ban...i can sure as heck say it here.
as for what Oleg thinks about it....was posted on another thread here.





I do not say it very often, but in this point Copperhead is right

BULL!!!!

Copperhead that is why you got banned from UBI. That attitude and that caustic, demeaning insulting brush that you so liberally want to paint anyone who has found some enhancement to the sim in the mods.

You can think what you want about the mods, but you go around on your high horse slinging $hit in peoples faces and insulting them like you are some kind of pillar of moral authority. You are talking out of your behind. You don't know what you are talking about. Some of those mods ARE good. VERY GOOD. This community gets splintered more by the vitriolic pap that you are spouting than by mods. There is a reason why unmodded servers are getting harder to find. And it isn't because the entire Hyperlobby community is clueless, or cheaters, or hack kiddies or liars or thieves or skill less. It is because some of thos e maps are fantastic... and if you take out the new planes for the most part most of the mods are effects, or feature enhancements. The 6DoF mod alone is a thing of beauty.. I can now hunker down on my gunsight in my razor back jug instead of having to hit SHIFT+F1. What few graphic glitches there are pale by comparison to the stability and quality of the mod. That is a fact. You don't know what you are talking about man. Being able to zoom in and out on my map? Great!! Having bi directional radiator controls now? FANTASTIC!! Being able to set my speedbar to default to MPH... or KIAS... or whatever i want is great. Being able to customize my default skins so now when I fly over Ramitelli airbase... oh.. did I say Ramitelli airbase...? I see dozens of redtail aircraft parked on the side.. or being able to customize me splash screen.. or put Mamabear's picture in my P-51 cockpit.. yeah.. it is good. Sure there are some mods out there that are not well done.

Yes there are cheaters.... but for the most part they are few and far between, and thier presence does not in my opinion warrant me disrespecting and insulting guys I have known for the past 5-7 years, because they use mods. Sorry that dog just don't hunt...

Cheating and modding are two different things man. You canh keep your head in the sand or up your backside or wherever you want to keep it.. but you need to stop with the hostile rhetoric and you need to look at the people who are using these mods and aske yourself if you think they have no character.

[csThor]

Still AAA has two legacies it can't ever shirk:

1.) The file rotection was hacked and that was what made all this stuff possible. This is the first reason why I refuse to install anything from that site or similar sites.
2.) There were some very nasty comments towards Oleg and people like me (who have no use for the hacks/mods) made b people who are very active at AAA. Most of these were blatant self-promotion or downright belittling comments about the abilities of Maddox Games. This did not sit well with me and I spoke up against such behavior. The result was a number of insults against my person which did not help to soothe the waves. This - and especially this - is the prime reason why I will never register at AAA even if some comments really made my vitriol levels spike and tempted me to give these people an answer they deserved. Had it not been for that arrogance and rude attitude this process would have been a lot less "explosive".

[Bearcat]

Still AAA has two legacies it can't ever shirk:

1.) The file rotection was hacked and that was what made all this stuff possible. This is the first reason why I refuse to install anything from that site or similar sites.
2.) There were some very nasty comments towards Oleg and people like me (who have no use for the hacks/mods) made b people who are very active at AAA. Most of these were blatant self-promotion or downright belittling comments about the abilities of Maddox Games. This did not sit well with me and I spoke up against such behavior. The result was a number of insults against my person which did not help to soothe the waves. This - and especially this - is the prime reason why I will never register at AAA even if some comments really made my vitriol levels spike and tempted me to give these people an answer they deserved. Had it not been for that arrogance and rude attitude this process would have been a lot less "explosive".


Thor I understand where you are coming from in the first part... I disagree... but I do understand.. it's like not buying a real Christmas tree to help the environment. The tree has been cut. It would have been cut whether or not you bought it... As for the hostility part... well while that it not cool... that was a two way street. Copperhead's post is a rather mild indication of some of the stuff that was coming from the antio mod camp... so that cuts both ways. There was enough venom to go around on all sides. I caught it too... form both sides.

[311thCopperhead]

Now Bear...you of all people should know that if there is anyone in this sim that has my respect it's you. However, My point is this. Look at that list you just posted.

Now ask your self...i can do all of these things becuase i have this installed. I have 6 DOF. I can see everything. Well.... what about those ppl who don't?
what about the people who've either by persoanl choice or nessity decided not to use those modded files? would you not agree that a person with all of those things you posted would have an inhearant advantage over say...someone who does not?

Do you see the point i'm trying to make here?

While i know for a fact that Bearcat is NOT a cheater, and no one in your squadron is a cheater....and yes i've seen the names of the people over there @ aaa, people i've know by name and reputation for years, and i'm intelligent enough to realize that they may not be cheaters, however it's not those people i am concerned about. It's the ones you don't know. and with so few servers avalible that you can trust....what do ya do?

Do i sacrafice my priciples and beliefs to fit in with what the crowd is doing?
No. that's not my way and you know it. I am, and will always be my own man. Right or Wrong, for better or for worse i am what i am. I will speak freely, and loudly. i will say what's on my mind and in my heart. I will not attempt to be someone or something i am not. If what i write, or say sometimes rubs against the grain or the status quoe..then so be it. While it may apear to be poisonous on the surface, if you look deeply enough you will see that that is just my way. If i feel that somethingis wrong i will speak out against it. Like wise if i feel someone or somehting is right and just i will not only support it but defend it with everything i am.

Honestly Berry would you have me be any other way?

That being said...weather they're good or bad.... i don't think that the use and creation of modded files in the sim are right or fair. If my passion on the subject seemed to rub you or anyone else the wrong way then i'm sorry. but that's just how i feel about it and i doubt it will change.

@ Harti....thanks.

[311thCopperhead]

Still AAA has two legacies it can't ever shirk:

1.) The file rotection was hacked and that was what made all this stuff possible. This is the first reason why I refuse to install anything from that site or similar sites.
2.) There were some very nasty comments towards Oleg and people like me (who have no use for the hacks/mods) made b people who are very active at AAA. Most of these were blatant self-promotion or downright belittling comments about the abilities of Maddox Games. This did not sit well with me and I spoke up against such behavior. The result was a number of insults against my person which did not help to soothe the waves. This - and especially this - is the prime reason why I will never register at AAA even if some comments really made my vitriol levels spike and tempted me to give these people an answer they deserved. Had it not been for that arrogance and rude attitude this process would have been a lot less "explosive".


Exactly. Which is why one reason why i'm not holding my tounge on this. That's gotten me into some troubles in the past...but unlike Thor...i don't ALWAYS choose my words carfully and write with such eloquence. even though i have the ability to do so. forwhatever reason what come out is what comes out and....well there you have it.

another yet rare occation where Thor and i are in agreement. The back handed talk about Oleg and 1c kinda ticked me off as well.
I'm not saying...i'm just saying....Those people (AAA) are putting a strangle hold on the sim that will last long after SoW has released. For me personally, when everyone else has forgoten about IL-2...i had planed to still be playing it. The idea of yet amother Battle of Britain sim has never really excited me personaly. While i'm sure i'll be standing at game stop, cash in hand on realease day...i was counting on il-2 to still be useull for me untill we get SoW to the Pacific or Korea. Sadly that's gone.

[csThor]

Thor I understand where you are coming from in the first part... I disagree... but I do understand.. it's like not buying a real Christmas tree to help the environment. The tree has been cut. It would have been cut whether or not you bought it...

Neg, sorry, but that comparison doesn't work. I have been burned by these so-called "improvements" twice in my gaming life and these experiences (along with reading Il-2 message boars for years) have formed my opinion on user mods in combat flight simulations in general (= people aren't mature enough to be given access to any core data and mods tend to be prybars which split communities). That the file protection was hacked (an individual act which I consider disrespectful to the extreme) just made my resolve not to use any mods even harder.


As for the hostility part... well while that it not cool... that was a two way street. Copperhead's post is a rather mild indication of some of the stuff that was coming from the antio mod camp... so that cuts both ways. There was enough venom to go around on all sides. I caught it too... form both sides.

I do not agree with everything Copperhead posted and I don't think his tone is helpful. However the provocations were started by a few selected mod-proponents - at least as far as I know - and I am convinced they have been started precisely for that effect - to undermine the "reputation" of people opposing the mods by luring them into posting inflammable comments. I do not know why these people took that road or what exactly they hoped to achieve, but I believe that these few individuals have made the rift between pro- and anti-mod much wider and deeper than it would have been without them.

[Bearcat]

Yeah but that's just it.. either you are a good pilot or a bad pilot.. You take a bad pilot fully modded with all the legitimate mods.. ad a good pilot on stock map.. and the good pilot can be minus TIR... and the bad pilot will still get waxed. These mods are not what some people think they are. Much of what they bring to the sim is an individual thing.. and again... some of the backhanded comments about Oleg aside... that was just wrong.. but it wasn't the entire AAA community that was doing this... If I let the actions of a few dorks slow me down I'd be very limited in a lot of things in my life.

I can respect your feelings and your passion.. but you just cant label an entire community as cheaters.. and to be honest.. a lot of the negativity started with us... (The anti mod crowd..) WE were the ones who started calling these modders cheaters and liars....

It is what it is. You guys have to follow your conscience.. I followed mine.. that was why I waited to see what was going on with all this before I even tried it... but if you want a mod free server then start one... and max out your CRT2 settings... either you will get folks in there or you wont.. but I still manage to have fun with the sim.. and I cant see NOT flying it out of principle after I have spent thousands over the years between hardware & software in order to fly it the way I want to.

[311thCopperhead]

Neg, sorry, but that comparison doesn't work. I have been burned by these so-called "improvements" twice in my gaming life and these experiences (along with reading Il-2 message boars for years) have formed my opinion on user mods in combat flight simulations in general (= people aren't mature enough to be given access to any core data and mods tend to be prybars which split communities). That the file protection was hacked (an individual act which I consider disrespectful to the extreme) just made my resolve not to use any mods even harder.




I do not agree with everything Copperhead posted and I don't think his tone is helpful. However the provocations were started by a few selected mod-proponents - at least as far as I know - and I am convinced they have been started precisely for that effect - to undermine the "reputation" of people opposing the mods by luring them into posting inflammable comments. I do not know why these people took that road or what exactly they hoped to achieve, but I believe that these few individuals have made the rift between pro- and anti-mod much wider and deeper than it would have been without them.


Yup. and i swallowed, hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and fishermans arm.
Sigh.:rolleyes:

[csThor]

Bearcat:

Well I never called "them" cheaters or liars. I always said this development has the potential to become explosive merely by creating an atmosphere where the suspicion of cheating is enough to blow up in our faces. And of course the "provocateurs" on both sides were few and far in between.
Bottom line for me is:

a) I have experienced what uncontrolled modding can do to a community and the enjoyment I can take out of a sim (with EAW and Panzer Elite). It took away all the fun and created nothing but frustration, waste of time and frictions between people I called friends and myself. Add to this that I consider "the community" (which is in fact fractured into many tiny groups with very special interests) not mature enough to be given any tools to modify the level playing field (or did we all forget the FM flamewars?) in any significant way and you have the reason why I am seriously doubting the value of user modding.

b) I have far too much respect for Oleg and his team to use anything "from there". Call me old-fashioned, but they made the decision to keep the code to themselves and I am not going to change that policy for me.

[311thCopperhead]

thor i just noticed you sig. are you working on that for Bob. just wondering.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Bearcat:

Well I never called "them" cheaters or liars. I always said this development has the potential to become explosive merely by creating an atmosphere where the suspicion of cheating is enough to blow up in our faces. And of course the "provocateurs" on both sides were few and far in between.
Bottom line for me is:

a) I have experienced what uncontrolled modding can do to a community and the enjoyment I can take out of a sim (with EAW and Panzer Elite). It took away all the fun and created nothing but frustration, waste of time and frictions between people I called friends and myself. Add to this that I consider "the community" (which is in fact fractured into many tiny groups with very special interests) not mature enough to be given any tools to modify the level playing field (or did we all forget the FM flamewars?) in any significant way and you have the reason why I am seriously doubting the value of user modding.

b) I have far too much respect for Oleg and his team to use anything "from there". Call me old-fashioned, but they made the decision to keep the code to themselves and I am not going to change that policy for me.

I've had some recent experience talking to and working with some folks that are involved in that community. What I find refreshing is this go around for mods has quite a bit of responsibility behind it. There is an opportunity to keep things from getting out of hand. The community has a policy that states there will be no changes to the existing FMs or DMs and they won't promote or host anything that does.

In addition they are creating a standard install that will have certain criteria for submission and quality control. If they continue down this path it may get rid of the garbage that could threaten our favorite sim.

At first I was very reluctant for all the same reasons above. The fact is IL2 in it's current state is far from complete or without it's issues. That could be said for may simulations but that's a different topic. The mods could be a good thing if they are done responsible and done correctly.

Until BOB hits the streets I'm keeping an open mind and continuing to enjoy 4.08 4.09b and some of the mods. It has some really good potential to breath life into a dying genre.

[csThor]

thor i just noticed you sig. are you working on that for Bob. just wondering.

Yep. At this moment only bombers and recon units of the Luftwaffe (those that saw action during the BoB, that is) remain undone, but unfortunately I am "out of order" due to a very rare illness which needs treatment via chemotherapy (I'll be getting my second shot tomorrow). Since this has to be done in Berlin I'm living with my parents until the therapy is over and my PC is 600km away from here. I don't know if I can finish that work as the therapy is scheduled to run until March or April ... :???:

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

looks like i opened up a can of worms here. Lads you really should open the curtains and look outside, you might find it aint all that bad.:-P

quick note to oleg.. Thanks again man, brilliant peice of art work IL2.. Cheers .And if i show any disrespect to you or the other programmers for using mods, then i appologise. But the mods are very well executed and do do justice to il2.. GOOD luck with BOB, im already poised with my wallet :grin:

Cheers MD_Wild_Weasel (Group Captain)
http://www.mightydemons.com/hq/index.php

[311thCopperhead]

Yep. At this moment only bombers and recon units of the Luftwaffe (those that saw action during the BoB, that is) remain undone, but unfortunately I am "out of order" due to a very rare illness which needs treatment via chemotherapy (I'll be getting my second shot tomorrow). Since this has to be done in Berlin I'm living with my parents until the therapy is over and my PC is 600km away from here. I don't know if I can finish that work as the therapy is scheduled to run until March or April ... :???:

Oh man. sorry to hear that. Glad that your doing the regiments....but i hope your health improves. I'd like to try and do them for SOW at some point in the future when the USAAF becomes involved in the sim. if there's anything i can do to help please let me know.

if your able to comment on it....
let me ask.....is the regiment system in BoB going to be the same as in IL-2 or are there going to be changes?

[kristorf]

Thor,
going off topic, but all the best with the treatment mate and I hope all works out for you.

[Bearcat]

Bearcat:

Well I never called "them" cheaters or liars. I always said this development has the potential to become explosive merely by creating an atmosphere where the suspicion of cheating is enough to blow up in our faces. And of course the "provocateurs" on both sides were few and far in between.
Bottom line for me is:

a) I have experienced what uncontrolled modding can do to a community and the enjoyment I can take out of a sim (with EAW and Panzer Elite). It took away all the fun and created nothing but frustration, waste of time and frictions between people I called friends and myself. Add to this that I consider "the community" (which is in fact fractured into many tiny groups with very special interests) not mature enough to be given any tools to modify the level playing field (or did we all forget the FM flamewars?) in any significant way and you have the reason why I am seriously doubting the value of user modding.

b) I have far too much respect for Oleg and his team to use anything "from there". Call me old-fashioned, but they made the decision to keep the code to themselves and I am not going to change that policy for me.

Thor I understand... I do.. and I agree with most of it.. other parts I don't.. but the fact that you or Lee for that matter have decided to not go the mod route in no way diminishes your appreciation for a good thing.. or makes you suckers just as my willingness to try them and appreciate them doesn't make me or anyone else who has done that a villian.

That's all I am saying. AS for Oleg & 1C.... see the post from the bottom on page one of this thread.. (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=5730)

I dont know how true it is.. but it fits in with a lot of what we have been seeing of late. AFAIC as long as people are still buying the sim and Oleg is still working on SoW and I am still enjoying 46... I am happy.

In Copper's case... I understand the passion but it just doesn't help when expressed that way.



I've had some recent experience talking to and working with some folks that are involved in that community. What I find refreshing is this go around for mods has quite a bit of responsibility behind it. There is an opportunity to keep things from getting out of hand. The community has a policy that states there will be no changes to the existing FMs or DMs and they won't promote or host anything that does.

In addition they are creating a standard install that will have certain criteria for submission and quality control. If they continue down this path it may get rid of the garbage that could threaten our favorite sim.

At first I was very reluctant for all the same reasons above. The fact is IL2 in it's current state is far from complete or without it's issues. That could be said for may simulations but that's a different topic. The mods could be a good thing if they are done responsible and done correctly.

Until BOB hits the streets I'm keeping an open mind and continuing to enjoy 4.08 4.09b and some of the mods. It has some really good potential to breath life into a dying genre.


That's my stance... and Thor all the best man. So.... do they give you medicinal "herbal medications" for the nausea... ?I hope it is almost over. I am really sorry to hear that.

[MOH_Hirth]

wow copperhead, such strong views there m8, As i am a regualer flyer on HL lets point out some facts .
1) most of the people who fly Il2 are of an average age of 45.(our oldest memeber in MD was 86)Infact one our our members is an university lecturer. Unless they have some serious issue`s with their personality why would they wanna cheat? I For one am 34 , I DO NOT CHEAT nor do i have the desire to cheat.
2) The people at AAA have strong views on making sure that exsiting FM or load out is NOT changed .And that Mods that are introduced are HISTORICAL with factual evidence
3) The aaa have introduced a "unified Mod Installer" which if everyone downloaded , servers could run at Check time =2
3) The mods that are available on the aaa website consist of the following:
cockpit re-paints, mirrors , ai cockpits, exhaust stack smoke , tyre screech, bullet impact sounds, new planes to name a few..

Copperhead, im not trying to covert peeps, but saying that quote"I think they suck. 1/2 @ss done trash by ppl who have next to zero idea what thier doing. the majority of wich are passing out cheat files in private amongst themselvs like thier halloween candy."is rather rude and slanderous, where is your evidence man? If also i could offer some advice? If you having trouble with cheats, fly smart. Cheaters usually come in the form of spotty faced kidz(sorry for the stereotype here) who cant be bothered to learn the hard way.These types of people usually fly low `n` slow in TnB fights.. Easy meals mate. :-P



The Comunity like improvements, we are perfectionists, we want buy every thing about Oleg simulator to pay your good work, who like simulation dont want cheat, i have 48yo i play clean but i cant stay playng without improvements and new ideas.

[MOH_Hirth]

Thor,
going off topic, but all the best with the treatment mate and I hope all works out for you.

+1 Hope all the best to your helth.

[SlipBall]

[quote=Bearcat;63509]I disagree.. I agree in principle.. but considering that :

There has been a small group of people that anyone who has been around here for any length of time knows about, who have had the ability to hack the sim and kept it to themselves.. as far back as 3 or 4 years ago.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bearcat
To your knowledge, are any of the original small group of hacker's affiliated with AAA, do any of them hold senior positions at that site?...I am just curious as to the early beginning's of, and the development of the mods site.

[CrazySchmidt]

These mods are not perfect by a long shot, but they are artistic, ambitious, adventurous and soul fulfilling (for the junkies). These mods are definitely for the hard core fans, the forum followers, the whiners and the artistic contributors that are the essential body of what keeps this withering sim alive.

I believe that the mods overall, are a beneficial movement for the IL-2 sim and are helping to keep the IL-2 flame burning, but let us all not forget that the mod movement also has a reckless and somewhat anarchistic approach as well.

Don't misunderstand me, the AAA site has a proven degree of integrity, but they are not the IL-2 source developers and as such do not fully understand the full complexity of what they are dealing with, they're simply the scientists carving and analysing the alien remains (for want of a better analogy).

Personally, I don't believe 1c are giving this whole mod thing much more than a monthly glance to see if there is anything they may gain in the way of ideas from the raping of their original masterpiece. Frankly why should they care, they're the artists, everyone else is merely performing the role of a parasitic leech.

I enjoy the mods as well, but make no mistake when SoW arrives, the mods will stop dead in their tracks!! and quite frankly it will be time!

CS. :)

[csThor]

Thx for the good wishes guys. I'm lucky as my dose is small and rather mild for a chemotherapy so side-effects are almost negligable. I do not feel nauseous at all (thx to a medication I get before getting my "shot" ;) ) so I guess I'm getting off lightly. Of course there are days when I do feel a little rough, but that's to be expected and can be tolerated. Only for shots to go now ... ;)

[Razer]

As of tonight however it seems that thier web site is down. one can only wonder if it's due to thier web host shuting them down for failure of payment for the monster fees they have accumulated or if Oleg finally has had enough and had them shut down due to infringment. Whatever the case may be....good ridance. don't let the door hit ya in the @ss on the way out.


....

So every is clear about what happened yesterday 29th dec 08 ...

Hostdime Hosts our site here & they had some serious problems regarding DNS name servers this meant that you were unable to access the site with the normal address

Everything is now back to normal & there has been no data loss anywhere.

Jolly

:rolleyes:

[Furio]

For what I’ve seen, AAA modders have made a serious attempt to maintain a reasonable loyalty to the game. In my opinion the quality of some of the mods is quite high. But the real unanswered question is: what impact such hackings will have on the whole, and on long term?
In my opinion, the list is: lower profits and investments, longer development times, higher prices for the end products, and possibly lower quality than technically achievable.

[Bearcat]

[quote=Bearcat;63509]I disagree.. I agree in principle.. but considering that :

There has been a small group of people that anyone who has been around here for any length of time knows about, who have had the ability to hack the sim and kept it to themselves.. as far back as 3 or 4 years ago.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bearcat
To your knowledge, are any of the original small group of hacker's affiliated with AAA, do any of them hold senior positions at that site?...I am just curious as to the early beginning's of, and the development of the mods site.


I have no idea....

[Thunderbolt56]

I'm not a cheater. Never have been. I have the Unified Installer and Switcher and there are some really interesting things in the package. For me, the whole reason is THE MAPS. Some of them are absolutely stunning. The flyable B-17 is cool and there are a number of other little things that are quite well done.

I stayed away from all of them for a long time and, IMO, when the Positives start to outweigh the negatives, it's a good time to take a peak. Up to now, I still fly online exclusively with 4.08m, but when there are only maybe 4 servers I'd fly (and their numbers are thinning a bit too), I have very little to lose to check out the mods.

I won't defend the original hacker(s) and won't even defend the mods. They are what they are and trying them out is still a choice each individual can make. The truth is, the sky isn't falling, and taking the blue pill won't make you a bad person just like not taking it won't make you a better one.

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

I'm not a cheater. Never have been. I have the Unified Installer and Switcher and there are some really interesting things in the package. For me, the whole reason is THE MAPS. Some of them are absolutely stunning. The flyable B-17 is cool and there are a number of other little things that are quite well done.

I stayed away from all of them for a long time and, IMO, when the Positives start to outweigh the negatives, it's a good time to take a peak. Up to now, I still fly online exclusively with 4.08m, but when there are only maybe 4 servers I'd fly (and their numbers are thinning a bit too), I have very little to lose to check out the mods.

I won't defend the original hacker(s) and won't even defend the mods. They are what they are and trying them out is still a choice each individual can make. The truth is, the sky isn't falling, and taking the blue pill won't make you a bad person just like not taking it won't make you a better one.

excactly , this is what i was trying to say in the first place. Well said

[Chivas]

I basicly quit flying IL-2 on-line when the mods came out. The mods weren't the main reason, it was just one more nail in the coffin as I was getting bored with the game anyway and ready to move on to SOW.

Out of curiosity I downloaded the unified installer, Canons BOB beta map, and Biggin hill campaign. The mods were interesting, but buggy, as expected from beta's. I'm also very interested in seeing the release of 352'nd BOB map.

I do get a laugh out of some forum members at AAA who declare that the community doesn't need Oleg's team anymore. The people actually doing the modding have even more respect and realize they wouldn't have anything to mod without the developers years of hard work. It seems that the only detractors of Oleg's work are those that couldn't find their @ss with both hands, let alone develop anything themselves.

[SlipBall]

slipball, how can this be a burden to 1C? Oleg has already stated that he needs to turn his attention to BOB. 409 is way down on his 2 do list . and if you think he still is ,how long does he want from beta release, Its been a year maybe?
anyway AAA have done a good job with keeping things above board as much as they can..
Also food for thought , the code was cracked and released by a russian . go figure :rolleyes:


The burden I think was to change SOW code, so as to not have it fall victim again, as in IL2. They had to rewrite it, to kindof make it "child proof":) if you follow my drift. Also 4.09 needed many more man hours to try and stop the leak:-P...a Russian is probably the only one that could read the code:grin:

[LEXX]

No. Oleg knew about the "hack" several years ago and was okay with it. Let it slide.

[Bearcat]

The fact that it took what... 4-5 years for the sim to get hacked.. and a bit longer for it to become available tpo the public says alot about the sim. The fact that anyone with an SFS extractor cant just go in there and make a mod.. it isn't like an SDK package... also says a lot.

I think one of the things that makes this different is that the community is older.. and frankly I dont know too many folks who would want a win from a cheat.

[carguy_]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2300

This thread shows the situation. I stress, the mod supporters were never able to deny valid vanilla supporters` arguments.

I got over it some time ago as I quit IL2 in 2007. The thing worthy of remembering is what kind of people former IL2 community had all along. Sad.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

If you don't play il2 then why are you even here? It's only your opinion that the anti-modders arguments were unasailable. Here it is over a year later and all the doom and gloom the anti-modders were wailing about never came to be.

[Brain32]

Why wouldn't he be here? This is 1C games forum, and since there's still no official forum for Storm Of War this is the place to be.
And actually he is damn right, there are issues about the modding that fanatic suporters never managed to deny - because it's impossible.
Here it is over a year later and all the doom and gloom the anti-modders were wailing about never came to be.
No? Really? Well how to F would you know if you are only playing with mods? Let's just say that a "birdie" told me how many people were caught to use mods on a declared non-mod server - the number is downright SHOCKING!!! And those were caught, how many were smart enough not to be caught?

[Bearcat]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2300

This thread shows the situation. I stress, the mod supporters were never able to deny valid vanilla supporters` arguments.

I got over it some time ago as I quit IL2 in 2007. The thing worthy of remembering is what kind of people former IL2 community had all along. Sad.

That thread shows a lot more than I think you realize. I think everyone here should take the time to read that thread. All 100+ pages of it and compare it to the reality 12+ months later.. Very interesting stuff. That 113 page thread thread went from 11/21/07 to 1/10/08 and pretty much covered just about every argument pro and con on the mods.

Carguy the " mod supporters", at least the ones here, don't have to deny jack. The history speaks for itself. The work speaks for itself. Look at that thread. Really read the whole thing, including many of your posts, and compare it with the facts of today.. Oh.. that's right.. you cant do that... you quit IL2 when that thread was being made most likely.. because it was the end of the world right? So basically anything you have to say on the subject is coming from misinformation and speculation on what happened in other sims way back when.. Y'know, it's interesting. 95% of the stuff in there as far as worries and prophecies of doom for online flying in IL2 from several people, YOU included, have not even come to pass. Not even close. Right now there are over 600 folks on HL.. on a Tuesday @1915 EST. So much for the death of online play...


I said it then.. I'll say it now... the sim is hacked. Get over it.

If you cant do that then do like Carguy did and leave... but STFU about it because it is a moot point.

Seriously.....

Today there is a history to go along with it. Unlike back when that thread was created, posted in and locked... it is now a year later... and the work speaks for itself. The integrity of this community speaks for itself. We are not a community of cheaters and the modders are not "pimply faced teenagers".

I waited almost a year (9 months from when this all started) before I tried any of the mods. It was D-Day of 08 that I finally tried them. I am glad I waited... they were worth the wait.

The old arguments need to be revised. Like them or not, there is no denying that the mods have not hurt the sim. They have not ruined online flying. The expected FM & DM mods have not come en masse.... Most of the mods are functional improvements and immersion boosters.. and as I have said from day one.. they aren't going anywhere no matter who likes them or doesnt. Those who insist on seeing the doom and gloom where there is none need to look at today and stop looking at this issue from the prism of the past.

Carguy you talk about the "kind of people former IL2 community had all along" as if the current community were somehow deviant or had less character. That is BS man.. now if you didn't [i]mean it that way and I just took it wrong then I apologize now... but somehow I think that you seem to be insinuating that because many in this community have chosen to use the mods that have been out for over a year now, and actually like some of them with little if any ill effects, at the very least nothing that a reinstall cant fix... and people had issues with patches... official patches.. that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.

If that is what you DID mean then I totally disagree with you and I say that the fact that 12+ months after the initial "crime" there are NOT widespread FM-DM-Wep mods, hack kiddies have NOT taken over the sim, UFOs have not invaded HyperLobby , in all this the community is generally policing itself. There are now maps for Slovenia, The Med... with Italy Africa & Greece, The Phillipines, Burma, The English Channel.. and more... there are flyable bombers with cockpits, IL2 1946 has probably sold more because of these mods, although I dont have the figures, from what I understand the mods don't work on the downloaded version.

Now all this may go to rot in a year or two... if that is to be the case that was the fact the moment the sim was hacked and you and others like you can shortchange yourself by not flying... or whatever you want to do. Me? I am going to continue to enjoy this sim that I have invested thousands in flying over the past 7 years... and enjoy the h@ll out of it while I can.

[Al Schlageter]

but STFU about it because it is a moot point.

LOL!!! Such language would get one a nasty PM or a ban from a prissy Mod over at UBI.

[Seeker]

ROFL at Bearcat using "integrity".

[Bearcat]

Why wouldn't he be here? This is 1C games forum, and since there's still no official forum for Storm Of War this is the place to be.
And actually he is damn right, there are issues about the modding that fanatic suporters never managed to deny - because it's impossible.

No? Really? Well how to F would you know if you are only playing with mods? Let's just say that a "birdie" told me how many people were caught to use mods on a declared non-mod server - the number is downright SHOCKING!!! And those were caught, how many were smart enough not to be caught?

So ... all the mods are cheats right?

Y'see the thing that you don't get is that while there may be cheat mods out there.. I can't deny that.. I haven't seen any but I cant deny that they exist... but here you say
that because a person is using mods they can't possibly know about cheats.. what.. you think it is like some kind of virus or something...

MODS DO NOT EQUAL CHEATS. JUST BECAUSE A PERSON USES MODS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE/SHE CONDONES OR PRACTICES CHEATING.

Just because a person uses mods does not mean that their version of the sim is hot and ready to become a cheat factory. That is not how the mods work. The majority of those mods have nothing to do with FMs or DMs at all....

ROFL at Bearcat using "integrity".

Well maybe you just hang out with the wrong class of people.. All the ones I hang out with on either side if the mods issue wouldn't think a victory gained by a cheat was worth the time it took to achieve.

I do think that if a server host wants a mod free server he is entitled to that regardless to the mod. I have come to see these mods however as more functionality. While as I asid I am sure there are FDW mods.. most of them just add functionality.

[fly_zo]

... this discussion was pointless a year ago but now it's just ridiculous . Same arguments all over again ... one would think that "purist" would come out with new ammunition by now .

It's nice to see that Brain32 hasn't lost his edge though .... pozdrav tebi i Kuni ;-)

Anyway , i just stopped to wish you all happy and prosperous New Year ... modders and purists

regards
z
p.s. still missing Evgeny around here ...

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

The burden I think was to change SOW code, so as to not have it fall victim again, as in IL2. They had to rewrite it, to kindof make it "child proof":) if you follow my drift. Also 4.09 needed many more man hours to try and stop the leak:-P...a Russian is probably the only one that could read the code:grin:

sorry slipball, but this illusive 4.09b1 has been out nearly a year now, as i said earlier(dont ask for a direct quote) oleg said that 4.09 was not top of his agenda, I dont blame the geezer there must be thousands of people in Il2 breathing down his neck for results! :-P. I just dont think mods are all that bad and doesnt neccesserily mean people will cheat. In fact they dont.

[JG52Uther]

Funny,quite a few of those 'rabid anti hackers' appearing in that old thread are now very much using the mods. :)

This whole thread is useless.It all happened publically a year ago (I know,I have the T-shirt).

[Wolf_Rider]

I just dont think mods are all that bad and doesnt neccesserily mean people will cheat. In fact they dont.





err, computer says wrong Wild Weasel.... human nature dictates if the possibility to cheat exists, it will happen.
besides which... using mods is supporting the hacking of the sim, sorry to say :wink:

[Brain32]

So ... all the mods are cheats right?

Did I say that? You guys are also guilty for all the flames with such reactions, that BS "you are either with us or against us" attitude is not helping anyone


Y'see the thing that you don't get is that while there may be cheat mods out there.. I can't deny that.. I haven't seen any but I cant deny that they exist... but here you say
that because a person is using mods they can't possibly know about cheats.. what.. you think it is like some kind of virus or something...
And what is person doing with mods on a server, that publically and very politely announced that it's users do not want mods on the server, that has messages warning about disapproval of mods on the server popping out in the chatbar every few minutes, what?


MODS DO NOT EQUAL CHEATS. JUST BECAUSE A PERSON USES MODS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE/SHE CONDONES OR PRACTICES CHEATING.
I agree completely, but I ask again what is a presumably honest mod user doing with mods on a server that politely requests no mods?

Just because a person uses mods does not mean that their version of the sim is hot and ready to become a cheat factory. That is not how the mods work. The majority of those mods have nothing to do with FMs or DMs at all....
That appears to be true, because of childs way of thinking(by that I mean honest, naive thinking and general disbelief somebody could do wrong with something that can be used for good) you guys can't think "out of the box" when we talk about cheats...

Here, I will tell you what what I expirienced;
- the most common is invisible plane, bounced with tracers coming out of thin air, my squad buddy saw no plane, other example idiot in invisible bomber spawns on the field and shoots planes around with turrets...
- FM switching a variations to the theme, personally saw a P51 I could easily catch but couldn't outturn or outclimb no matter what, he tied a few of us until we applied anti-Spitfire tactics lol
- not to mention how many people fly with adjusted gunsights, mirrors, 6DOF and cool stuff like that.
As you can notice the above things were obviously made by amateurs, I'm afraid to think what someone good with Java could do...

Also I only responded here because Urufu sugested there are no cheats and we make things up, that's unacceptable.

As for hanging with wrong or right people this comment Bercat you did not need, was rather ruthless thing to say IMO.

[Brain32]

It's nice to see that Brain32 hasn't lost his edge though .... pozdrav tebi i Kuni ;-)
I never lost my edge, you would think my name is Ivica, but it's not :D
Anyway you know I was never pro or anti mod, I consider myslef one of the "silent majority" the problem is...I rarely stay silent about anything lol


Anyway , i just stopped to wish you all happy and prosperous New Year ... modders and purists
Thx, Sretna Nova Godina :)

[carguy_]

That thread shows a lot more than I think you realize. I think everyone here should take the time to read that thread. All 100+ pages of it and compare it to the reality 12+ months later.. Very interesting stuff. That 113 page thread thread went from 11/21/07 to 1/10/08 and pretty much covered just about every argument pro and con on the mods.

Funny enough, main points against the mods stand strong as the facts are very simple and undeniable.


Carguy the " mod supporters", at least the ones here, don't have to deny jack. The history speaks for itself. The work speaks for itself. Look at that thread. Really read the whole thing, including many of your posts, and compare it with the facts of today.. Oh.. that's right.. you cant do that... you quit IL2 when that thread was being made most likely.. because it was the end of the world right?

I`m not one bit surprised that you keep on spilling the same BS. After all, you were one of the first to force the mod support topics into the IL2 forums which led others to follow.
What history?Work?Oh, you mean the numerous quotes from the 1C officials that accept the mods - a blatant cracking of the IL2 code and Maddox intellectual property?

Oh that`s quite right - as far as I`m concerned there aren`t any such quotes, because 1C position on mods stays the same.

And might I repeat the main point - whatever happens to the IL2 code stays in decision of the legitimate decision maker which is Oleg Maddox I believe.
Anything done to damage his intelectual property is wrong, hence the mods are also wrong.

It`s obvious that I don`t have the knowledge of the 2008 year practice with mods because I quit in December 2007.
The rules are clear enough though and did not change. I don`t really need to know anything more.


So basically anything you have to say on the subject is coming from misinformation and speculation on what happened in other sims way back when.. Y'know, it's interesting. 95% of the stuff in there as far as worries and prophecies of doom for online flying in IL2 from several people, YOU included, have not even come to pass. Not even close. Right now there are over 600 folks on HL.. on a Tuesday @1915 EST. So much for the death of online play...

As far as online goes, the end of it came when flying online on CRT=2 servers with switched FM parameters was tested with a positive result.

Fair and square flying became non existant. If the year 2008 proved anything - it proved that what is valuable for IL2 fans and cheat free online society supporters, is next to nothing for those willing to consume new - uncertified - addons to the game just to suit their consumerism needs.

So don`t twist my words. I have always meant end of fair online play, not all of the IL2 online gaming.


I said it then.. I'll say it now... the sim is hacked. Get over it.

Confirmed many times - ignorance is bliss.


If you cant do that then do like Carguy did and leave... but STFU about it because it is a moot point.

You`re right to an extent. The point of preventing the destruction of online play is moot. What is left from it is a great disapointment in people who I talked with, flew with, in my squad and others. People who proved to be two faced opportunists.

The only thing left for me from IL2 is sense of dignity and that I am, as an IL2 supporter, a man of my word.



The old arguments need to be revised. Like them or not, there is no denying that the mods have not hurt the sim. They have not ruined online flying. The expected FM & DM mods have not come en masse.... Most of the mods are functional improvements and immersion boosters.. and as I have said from day one.. they aren't going anywhere no matter who likes them or doesnt. Those who insist on seeing the doom and gloom where there is none need to look at today and stop looking at this issue from the prism of the past.

Look above, nothing has changed - you still participate in illegal exploit of the IL2 code against its creator.

If there`s anyone that is a legitimate voice is the person that posseses the intellectual right s to it - that person is still Oleg Maddox. I have not follwed IL2 since a while so maybe the property got sold. Fill me in if the buyer said it is ok to mod IL2. I`ll turn 180 degrees.
Oleg Maddox said it`s ruining the sim and online play - and the clear rules state his words, not yours, state the facts.

You can compare this to stealing a 1000$ every month from a bank account belonging to a milionaire. Jeeez! Doesn`t make him any difference if we steal 1000$ every month from him, does it?
Then why does the carnal law all over the world prosecutes this kind of practice?


that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.




and people had issues with patches... official patches.. that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.

Somehow...yes, they are bad people in a sense. In sense of stealing from the owner of the IL2 code. It is obvious that the vast majority of you people have gone the easy way of consuming the game to your needs independetly from the above. Many of you actually know that you`re doing a bad thing, though the numbers that stand behind you make you feel somewhat less responsible or even innocent o participating in it. People like me seem to ruin your day, because I keep reminding you that you`re undoubtedly an asshole. The carnal law names the doings as a crime, which tends to agree with the brightest minds of this world that the intellectual property needs a very strict protection. I wouldn`t exactly compare you to a guy who kills a human being, but the law says exactly what you`re doing when applying the mods.

The thing that is shocking to me, is that the urge to consume the hell outta anything, this game too, makes you people forget about the meaning of your doings and the consequences altoghether.

If there`s so many of you, an your opinions ensist on making the cracking of the game legal, good, beneficial to 1C, why don`t you just convince them?
Oh, they STILL think it`s wrong? They must be idiots to the same extent that I, and few other IL2 supporters are.



If that is what you DID mean then I totally disagree with you and I say that the fact that 12+ months after the initial "crime" there are NOT widespread FM-DM-Wep mods, hack kiddies have NOT taken over the sim, UFOs have not invaded HyperLobby , in all this the community is generally policing itself.

Funny how you keep sticking to the less significant factor of the case. I`m telling you keep actively supporting illegal practice, you say it is totally ok because it doesn`t hurt IL2 online play.
Well, the difference between you and me is that you keep voicing an opinion whereas I`m saying what is totally objective, because it is sanctioned by law.


Now all this may go to rot in a year or two... if that is to be the case that was the fact the moment the sim was hacked and you and others like you can shortchange yourself by not flying... or whatever you want to do. Me? I am going to continue to enjoy this sim that I have invested thousands in flying over the past 7 years... and enjoy the h@ll out of it while I can.

You particulary disgust me, as you often told how you support IL2 Sturmovik. And probably you still think so. Go ahead and enjoy it while you can, just do me a favor and refrain from telling others that what you`re participating in is any good.

[Wolf_Rider]

Without regard, the fact however "self justified" boils down to:

"Oleg, we are taking over" and without a moment's hestitation the sim was stolen.





ps I admire the "free speech" aspect of this board, it seems so much healthier than the previous.

[Baron]

Without regard, the fact however "self justified" boils down to:

"Oleg, we are taking over" and without a moment's hestitation the sim was stolen.



Exactly, and still people wonder why 4.09 still isnt relased........seriously, are u pople that dumb? (hey, i have to ask)

U seriously dont know why 4.09 isnt released yet? (or going to be..ever.)


And no, "Oleg bussy with SoW" isnt the right awnser.



Sry, just pointing at the obviouse, my personal feelings for or against mods is completly beside the point, so lets not go there.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Here, I will tell you what what I expirienced;
- the most common is invisible plane, bounced with tracers coming out of thin air, my squad buddy saw no plane, other example idiot in invisible bomber spawns on the field and shoots planes around with turrets...
- FM switching a variations to the theme, personally saw a P51 I could easily catch but couldn't outturn or outclimb no matter what, he tied a few of us until we applied anti-Spitfire tactics lol
- not to mention how many people fly with adjusted gunsights, mirrors, 6DOF and cool stuff like that.
As you can notice the above things were obviously made by amateurs, I'm afraid to think what someone good with Java could do...

Also I only responded here because Urufu sugested there are no cheats and we make things up, that's unacceptable.



I NEVER said there are no cheats, I said I've never encountered them online myself, I specifically said that cheats must exist but that it's no more a problem than it was before the mods and it's not rampant as was predicted in the beginning. Don't put words in my mouth.

As for the listed "cheats" above, the invisible planes were a problem long before the mods were out, a bad patch sequence causes this not cheaters (though it's possible it's a cheater you cannot hold it up as evidence since there is a common benign explaination for this phenomenon).

There is no way to prove there was FM switching involved in you P51 incident, I see threads all the time where someone states they cannot catch a particular variant they think they should be able to catch, before the mods came out! Gunsites, mirrors and 6DOF are all admittedly debatable but no more so than trackIR, rudder pedals and who has the power to run better graphics than others (situational awareness etc).


Look, I'm not saying there are not valid concerns about mods etc, I'm just saying the mass hysteria and doom and gloom are unjustified, as are the insults people are posting about mod users. If you feel that the cracking of the code is something you do not want to have anything to do with then thats fine, good on ya, but don't slander those with a different opinion and certainly don't spread lies and misinformation about the mods themselves just because you disagree with the way this started. Feel free to argue all day about the root of the issue and what it is that you disagree with, the cracking of olegs IP, but there's no need to sling mud and to take the topic to ridiculous area's that have nothing to do with reality or the cracking of the code.

[DoolittleRaider]

By Oleg's own admission in posts at the UBI Forums several years ago, the "On-liners" comprise no more than 5% of all IL2 series purchasers. They are, of course, by definition the most active on the internet and also most active and vocal on the various internet Forums, and thus they appear very erroneously to be the overwhelming 'majority'...they are not, by any stretch of the imagination.

Those 'on-liners' who "Cheat", as noted in an earlier post above, are clearly the very immature element who likewise are in the even more extreme minority, my guess being less than 5 in a hundred...which equates to less than 1/4 of One percent of all the purchasers (customers) of Oleg's IL2 series of products. This miniscule segment of the customer base, and also those who are obsessed with preventing their "Cheating", have wagged the tail of Oleg 1C's company for far too long...and I think he finally realized it.

Oleg could have extended the life of his IL2 series product line and made a lot more profit/money by welcoming the Modders into the fold, perhaps even hiring them to produce such improved Mods for sale under the umbrella of 1C's production efforts, rather than combating/resisting their MODding efforts.

The MODs have brought a whole new Life to the IL2 series, in spite of that resistance, winning many new Fans (IL2 CUSTOMERS) and thereby expanding the potential retail customer base for SOW:BofB....far moreso than would be the case resulting from any continued catering to the wagging tail. imho

[SlipBall]

So, this is the result's of a hacked then modded game. A divided community, a dislike of one another based on their stated beliefs. I think it much better to leave a great sim like IL2 alone, in the first place. Then we will only hate those that shoot us down:grin:...no going back now, enjoy it the way that you perfer

[Bearcat]

I dont dislike anyone here... What I dislike is people saying that they don't think mods in and of themselves are cheats.. yet in just about every sentence that has the word mod in it cheats are close behind.. and the relation of the two words by these postedrs insinuates that the two are equal and they arent. In the bigger scheme of things.. my having Redtail skins as the defaults for my mustangs, or having a custom splash screen, or even the 6DoF mod.. constitutes no discernable advantage over someone who does not have these things. With the 6DoF I mean if I am flying against someone who has TIR4 w/o 6Dof and I have the 6DoF.. there is not much difference in the sense that the action is fluid... and since both users are constantly moving me being able to glimpse the tip of a wing from behind a spar means little.

This thread is a waste of time because everyone here has their views. I used to feel the same way as many of the anti modders and it was only when the potential fears that I had were not realized .. from the quality of the mods to the proliferation of cheats that I decided to try them and I am glad I did.

I have purchased enough copies of this series through out the past 7 years.. and I am talking more than 10 here at full retail price mind you, except for the last 2 copies of 46.. they were $20... if you add up the entire series and include gifts spares etc.... Not to mention the hundreds spent on upgrading my rig to use the software... then factoring in the time spent actually using it, promoting it, because I do... all the time. I have most of the videos on my laptop... not to mention about 200 screenshots... If I get into the copies I actually sold when I either worked retail at my local Best Buy or while just browsing in a store that sold the product and saw someone checking out the flight sims... I think I have more than earned the right to choose from something that is available to me... that is not taking money from Oleg's pocket. These mods are not being sold... no one is making money off the work... or taking food off 1C's collective tables... I don't know why 4.09 was not released .. perhaps it does have just about all to do with the mods.. I don't know and Oleg isn't talking... but these mods have been an improvement to my enjoyment of the sim.... and I don't knowingly associate with cheaters... so if you are against mods.. fine.. if you are against cheats.... that's fine too... but mod=cheat does not compute with me. Cheaters cheat...

[Wolf_Rider]

I did mention, "however self justified"... didn't I?


Cheaters cheat and hackers steal

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

And whiners whine and trolls troll....

[JG52Uther]

So just why has this all started again?
Pretty much everything posted here is in the same thread from a year ago,with maybe a little less abuse (so far)
Most peoples opinions have changed,some have not.But other than that,it is all EXACTLY the same!
This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.
Pathetic.

[SlipBall]

So just why has this all started again?
Pretty much everything posted here is in the same thread from a year ago,with maybe a little less abuse (so far)
Most peoples opinions have changed,some have not.But other than that,it is all EXACTLY the same!
This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.
Pathetic.



It just show's the passion that we all hold for this stellar sim. I think after SOW release, things should calm down a bit...untill SOW is cracked that is!:-P:grin:

[311thCopperhead]

And whiners whine and trolls troll....


yeah so wich one are you?

[Bandit Bill]

So ... all the mods are cheats right?

Y'see the thing that you don't get is that while there may be cheat mods out there.. I can't deny that.. I haven't seen any but I cant deny that they exist... but here you say
that because a person is using mods they can't possibly know about cheats.. what.. you think it is like some kind of virus or something...

MODS DO NOT EQUAL CHEATS. JUST BECAUSE A PERSON USES MODS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE/SHE CONDONES OR PRACTICES CHEATING.

Just because a person uses mods does not mean that their version of the sim is hot and ready to become a cheat factory. That is not how the mods work. The majority of those mods have nothing to do with FMs or DMs at all....



Well maybe you just hang out with the wrong class of people.. All the ones I hang out with on either side if the mods issue wouldn't think a victory gained by a cheat was worth the time it took to achieve.

I do think that if a server host wants a mod free server he is entitled to that regardless to the mod. I have come to see these mods however as more functionality. While as I asid I am sure there are FDW mods.. most of them just add functionality.

Bearcat:

Seriously, give it up man.

The only thing i see between that now locked post from 1 year back, and this one, is that the date has changed.

The Purists have made their choice, and despite the 'Puritan' holier than thou attitude that they hold in doing so publicly, it is their choice to do so after all.

We are all a year down the road. I've only just rejoined the fold of IL2 use after an extended period of illness, and mods or not, i'm grateful to be doing so. The Mods have 'come a long way, baby' in a short 8 months. They simply build upon the foundation of what is Oleg's vision and talent, and the IL2 series. The mods that i've used to date compliment Oleg's work - rather than deface it.

As far as the CFS series supposedly dying a death caused by cheating, they didn't. In relative terms, they just plain sucked. period. They were in my experience, generally berift of 'soul'.. they were a generic flight simulator, unlike the IL2's more focused approach to it. The CFS series was a design by committee exercise.. too many chefs in the cook-house, not enough burger flipping going on.. CFS* showed that in my opinion. This is why IL2 continues to enjoy success - the modders are expanding on the 'soul' that exists in IL2, mods or not.

In the 6 pages in to this thread that i've read, i still see the vitriole from the purists that existed in that same locked thread from a year ago. What i see largely absent is any arguments or commentary from the modder viewpoint in this thread. The modders have moved on, perhaps the purists should too. In any case, vitriole is pointless.

As to where i stand, it's pretty clear - i'm a mod user, and i'll make no apologies for that.

I'm also no cheat, and will stand for no cheating. I'm 40, not 4.

[flyingbullseye]

You know I may not have been here or at the UBI forums as long as many of the veterns have but here's my take.

I use the mods, fly completely offline and only a month ago finally bought/upgraded to 1946 from 4.04m. Had the mods not existed I never would have bought another copy for I wouldn't have had any reason to. What would I gain, stupid aircraft that never left the restraunt napkin and maybe a new map? Big deal. I could live without that. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has finally upgraded this sim to 1946 now. In order to use them I HAD to buy a copy, this in turn adds another sale to the total that in turn helps Oleg and team, now one more of many.

Attitude aside from both communities (mod site and this one) as mentioned many are very good. The sound mod itself has added a little more immursion as does the new cloud effects, many needed left out maps and a number of much needed a/c and cockpit repaints. ala 109E. What I don't see going on there as opposed to the MS CFS sims is retarded mods. I don't see corsairs with flak for guns, independence day alien ships jacked FM/DM and the like but new a/c, effects ect that are historical. All that aside look at CFS2,3 and some of the good addons released. If they didn't have mod tools, regardless whether given by the devs or not, good or bad realistic/historically both would have died long ago ESPECIALLY CFS 3.

I don't see and am not aware of any pay for addons, or that the code is released to the public via internet or any of the like. Had any of that gone on I'd be completely against it. As it stands you need to pay Oleg for the sim in order to get the free mods. Even if Oleg released mod tools there is a good chance that this argument would still be going on.

My 0.02

Flyingbullseye

[311thCopperhead]

By Oleg's own admission in posts at the UBI Forums several years ago, the "On-liners" comprise no more than 5% of all IL2 series purchasers. They are, of course, by definition the most active on the internet and also most active and vocal on the various internet Forums, and thus they appear very erroneously to be the overwhelming 'majority'...they are not, by any stretch of the imagination.

Those 'on-liners' who "Cheat", as noted in an earlier post above, are clearly the very immature element who likewise are in the even more extreme minority, my guess being less than 5 in a hundred...which equates to less than 1/4 of One percent of all the purchasers (customers) of Oleg's IL2 series of products. This miniscule segment of the customer base, and also those who are obsessed with preventing their "Cheating", have wagged the tail of Oleg 1C's company for far too long...and I think he finally realized it.

Oleg could have extended the life of his IL2 series product line and made a lot more profit/money by welcoming the Modders into the fold, perhaps even hiring them to produce such improved Mods for sale under the umbrella of 1C's production efforts, rather than combating/resisting their MODding efforts.

The MODs have brought a whole new Life to the IL2 series, in spite of that resistance, winning many new Fans (IL2 CUSTOMERS) and thereby expanding the potential retail customer base for SOW:BofB....far moreso than would be the case resulting from any continued catering to the wagging tail. imho


These "new fans" ergo, "new customers" as you call them....they are not buying the sim. they are not putting money in Olegs/1C's pockets....they're STEALING. none of them need to purchase the game any more. when it can be had for free download. The mods ppl have made it compleatly unnessacary to purchase the game any more.
So while ppl my self who have spent hundreds of dollars buying each consecutive release of the sim....they're getting it for free.
How fair is that? not very at all.

[311thCopperhead]

I dont dislike anyone here... What I dislike is people saying that they don't think mods in and of themselves are cheats.. yet in just about every sentence that has the word mod in it cheats are close behind.. and the relation of the two words by these postedrs insinuates that the two are equal and they arent. In the bigger scheme of things.. my having Redtail skins as the defaults for my mustangs, or having a custom splash screen, or even the 6DoF mod.. constitutes no discernable advantage over someone who does not have these things. With the 6DoF I mean if I am flying against someone who has TIR4 w/o 6Dof and I have the 6DoF.. there is not much difference in the sense that the action is fluid... and since both users are constantly moving me being able to glimpse the tip of a wing from behind a spar means little.

This thread is a waste of time because everyone here has their views. I used to feel the same way as many of the anti modders and it was only when the potential fears that I had were not realized .. from the quality of the mods to the proliferation of cheats that I decided to try them and I am glad I did. I have purchased enough copies of this series through out the past 7 years.. and I am talking more than 10 here at full retail price mind you, except for the last 2 copies of 46.. they were $20... if you add up the entire series and include gifts spares etc.... Not to mention the hundreds spent on upgrading my rig to use the software... then factoring in the time spent actually using it, promoting it, because I do... all the time. I have most of the videos on my laptop... not to mention about 200 screenshots... If I get into the copies I actually sold when I either worked retail at my local Best Buy or while just browsing in a store that sold the product and saw someone checking out the flight sims... I think I have more than earned the right to choose from something that is available to me... that is not taking money from Oleg's pocket. These mods are not being sold... no one is making money off the work... or taking food off 1C's collective tables... I don't know why 4.09 was not released .. perhaps it does have just about all to do with the mods.. I don't know and Oleg isn't talking... but these mods have been an improvement to my enjoyment of the sim.... and I don't knowingly associate with cheaters... so if you are against mods.. fine.. if you are against cheats.... that's fine too... but mod=cheat does not compute with me. Cheaters cheat...

Comon Bear. that's kinda BS man. if no ones taking a profit then why is aaa begging for thousands in "DONATIONS". how is that not stealing? how is that not taking a profit from some one elses work?
and like i just said all of these "new customers" coming to the sim becuse of the mods are not actually buying the sim the same way you or i did over the years....they're getting it for free. So i just can't help but wondering why in the hell you keep going to bat for these ppl.

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

Comon Bear. that's kinda BS man. if no ones taking a profit then why is aaa begging for thousands in "DONATIONS". how is that not stealing? how is that not taking a profit from some one elses work?
and like i just said all of these "new customers" coming to the sim becuse of the mods are not actually buying the sim the same way you or i did over the years....they're getting it for free. So i just can't help but wondering why in the hell you keep going to bat for these ppl.

where the hell do you get your info from? do you have any evidence backing up your statements? Yes people do pirate, But if you actaully read between the lines here most people in the online community will and do gladly part with thier cash for this game, i have several times.And anyone found using a pirated copy is frowned upon. Grow up man, and stop making up these un-founded accusations..unless you have evidence of course;)

[LEXX]

Weasel (to Copper) Grow up man, and stop making up these un-founded accusations.
Yea I saw that too.

[Furio]

Two posts I’d like to read.
1) I’m a modder. Yes, sometimes I doubt that all this hacking is unfair, but I simply did not resist. All those new wonderful planes and maps and effects... I know that Oleg has all his rights on IP, but I think he should understand us, with all our enthusiasm. Peace!
2) I’m against mods. I think that long-term damage outweighs short-term enjoyment. I can’t talk for Oleg, but yes, I understand you and your enthusiasm. Peace!

Have a nice year.

[kristorf]

none of them need to purchase the game any more. when it can be had for free download. The mods ppl have made it compleatly unnessacary to purchase the game any more.
So while ppl my self who have spent hundreds of dollars buying each consecutive release of the sim....they're getting it for free.
How fair is that? not very at all.

Rather a sweeping statement isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you still need the original game for mods to work, don't you?, I know I do..

Yes, some peeps have downloaded via P2P sites the game, but I would say the majority have purchased 1946 (and in my case and all I know who I fly with) all other versions published from the original IL2.

Why can people not accept that some have and like the mods and some don't.

IC have said this game has reached the end of its developement (even if the elusive .09 is ever released) and they have moved on, why can't other people?

Stop hero worshiping and slating/slagging of others please, reading these constant posts is the best cure for insomnia going, the same ground and arguements going round and round, resulting in people getting stuck so far up their own ar*es they cannot see anything else.


Accept we are all differant and think of a new topic please. (Aimed at both sides of the arguement)

[fly_zo]

Comon Bear. that's kinda BS man. if no ones taking a profit then why is aaa begging for thousands in "DONATIONS". how is that not stealing? how is that not taking a profit from some one elses work?
and like i just said all of these "new customers" coming to the sim becuse of the mods are not actually buying the sim the same way you or i did over the years....they're getting it for free. So i just can't help but wondering why in the hell you keep going to bat for these ppl.

for the man who posted FM data for stock plane publicly .... you're just about the last "man" on Earth who should talk about any kind of integrity . I strongly suspect that all of your rampage is caused solely from the fact that you have lost your "importance" in IL2 community ( if there was any at all) since mods presented themselves....

As for AAA goes , do watch what you're posting cos such accusations without any evidence just shows who you are and what your agenda really is ...
AAA has never encouraged nor allow any posts, discussion nor links about pirating IL2 products ... Any such action results with permanent ban ! And for donations part .... you can't be serious with that BS .

here, knock yourself out ( my second copy cos first one i had to give away to a friend who got interested in IL2 only when B17 got flyable ...)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/fly_zo/1946_01.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/fly_zo/1946_02.jpg

another BS accusation is regarding treating former purists down at AAA .... lets hear from them regarding this .

regards
Z

[Baron]

for the man who posted FM data for stock plane publicly .... you're just about the last "man" on Earth who should talk about any kind of integrity . I strongly suspect that all of your rampage is caused solely from the fact that you have lost your "importance" in IL2 community ( if there was any at all) since mods presented themselves....

As for AAA goes , do watch what you're posting cos such accusations without any evidence just shows who you are and what your agenda really is ...
AAA has never encourage nor allow any posts, discussion nor links about pirating IL2 products ... Any such action results with permanent ban ! And for donations part .... you can't be serious with that BS .

here, knock yourself out ( my second copy cos first one i had to give away to a friend who got interested in IL2 only when B17 got flyable ...)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/fly_zo/1946_01.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/fly_zo/1946_02.jpg

another BS accusation is regarding treating former purists down at AAA .... lets hear from them regarding this .

regards
Z


Completly beside the point he was trying to make. (Did not know however that bying X amount of copys automaticly gave u the right to do pretty much whatever u want, good to know) And AAA do not condone piracy of IL2 products?............are u fregging kidding me, please tell me u are kidding?.....u see, statements like that just makes this horseshit go arround and arround in a never ending story.


AAA gets donations (money) for work based on something they stole, plain and simple.

Try working your way arround that one ;)


And as of yet it doesnt seem to sink in as to why 4.09 isnt out yet, and proppably never will be ( a FREEEEEE addon mind u)....maby its because Oleg had enough...finally.



As i said before, my take on this is old news and boring but heres a little tip: Stop trying to justifie the usage of mods with all kind of retorichal bs, just own up to the fact that u/all dont mind telling Oleg " Thx, but well take it from here, u go work on the next project so we all have something new to bich about in a year or 2, seee ya , dont let the door hit u on the way out" and all this bs would have stopped long ago., u see, honesty is something a lot of people appriciate, even though it may come from someone he strongly disslike or feels is an A-hole even.

Here is some honesty from me: i wouldnt disslike mods half as much if it wasnt for AAA "holier than thou" bs, this selfproclaimed "anything not condoned by us is a no go" attitude. I dont remember seeing any of those duds CV`s making them the experts on anything IL2 related.........jesus, the hippocrasy coming out of that place just blows my mind.


So seriously, cut the crap, all of u.

[fly_zo]

Completly beside the point he was trying to make.


AAA gets donations (money) for work based on something they stole, plain and simple.

Try working your way arround that one ;)



And as of yet only 1 person from the modder camp seems to start thinking "heeeeey, i think i know why 4.09 isnt out yet ( a FREEEEEE addon mind u)....maby its because Oleg had enough...finally.

yeah M4T accepts donations too .... and so does any IL2 forum + advertise banners ...

and everybody knows that IL2 patches are used for public testing Bob features ( since huh i can't remember when) .... so you'll get your patch when 1C need to test some BoB stuff again

Z

for your edition :
As i said before, my take on this is old news and boring but heres a little tip: Stop trying to justifie the usage of mods with all kind of retorichal bs, just own up to the fact that u/all dont mind giving it to Oleg from behind and all this bs would have stoped long ago.

this just shows your ages .....

our rhetorical BS does result with positive propaganda and free advertising for IL2 (AAA has 20 000+ members) .... which results with more copy sold . On the other hand your BS earns nothing ....

your edition no2 :

Here is some honesty from me: i wouldnt disslike mods half as much if it wasnt for AAA "holier than thou" bs, this selfproclaimed "anything not condoned by us is a no go" attitude........jesus, the hipocrasy coing out of that place just blows my mind.


So seriously, cut the crap, all of u.

eh... now you're showing what this really is all about

you'd like mods which we don't allow ..... talking about hypocrisy

maybe when you turn 18 you'll get it ...

Z

[LEXX]

zo (about copper) :: or the man who posted FM data for stock plane publicly
copper did that, lol. What was that all about?

[JG52Uther]

zo (about copper) ::
copper did that, lol. What was that all about?

Yep,posted it on ubi LOL!
Funny thing is,that would have earned him a life ban at AAA,but at ubi,nothing :)

[LEXX]

How'd he/she get the FM? Man this gets weirder all the time.

[SlipBall]

quote: fly zo

and everybody knows that IL2 patches are used for public testing Bob features ( since huh i can't remember when) .... so you'll get your patch when 1C need to test some BoB stuff again

Z




Oleg has said the delay of 4.09 is because of the hacker's...thanks for nothing!

[Baron]

yeah M4T accepts donations too .... and so does any IL2 forum + advertise banners ...

and everybody knows that IL2 patches are used for public testing Bob features ( since huh i can't remember when) .... so you'll get your patch when 1C need to test some BoB stuff again

Z

for your edition :


this just shows your ages .....

our rhetorical BS does result with positive propaganda and free advertising for IL2 (AAA has 20 000+ members) .... which results with more copy sold . On the other hand your BS earns nothing ....

your edition no2 :


eh... now you're showing what this really is all about

you'd like mods which we don't allow ..... talking about hypocrisy

maybe when you turn 18 you'll get it ...

Z



U just DONT get it do u?

[JG52Uther]

Him and 20,000+ others ;)

[fly_zo]

Him and 20,000+ others ;)

game ... set .... match

Z

[JG52Uther]

How'd he/she get the FM? Man this gets weirder all the time.

He obviously spends a lot of time hunting for these things.:)

[fly_zo]

Oleg has said the delay of 4.09 is because of the hacker's...thanks for nothing!


don't you think its time to stop hiding behind Oleg's statements .... he is tied by contracts and legal stuff you know ;-)

Z

[Baron]

game ... set .... match

Z



U do relize u just patted yourselfe on the back for NOT getting it.


seriously dude.....READ and COMPREHEND before u post.




And FYI...its this bs u keep coming up with that ticks pople of about this topic. I will ask u again....nock it of.

[JG52Uther]

lol
Bitte sprechen Sie English oder Deutsche, oder Babblefish.

[fly_zo]

U do relize u just patted yourselfe on the back for NOT getting it.


seriously dude.....READ abd COMPREHEND before u post.




And FYI...its this bs u keep coming up with that ticks pople of about this topic. I will ask u again....nock it of.


ages again .... hormones are strong with this one ( Star wars ....if too young to realize )

Z

[Prince_BK]

I come from the thought that Mods=Cheating. If 1C wanted to allow Mods they would have created a section like in the Call of Duty games for Mods. I am by NO means calling everybody with Mods a cheater but what the Mods do allow, is doubt to be put in peoples minds that the enemy plane they are facing has that little something extra. Don't think that the people who started AAA are so innocent by the way. I have been on Comms with them before they started it and know some of the things they tried. Not saying that they put the stuff out there but I know what they did such as Spit 25lbs attributes in MKVIII, LA7 attributes in a LA5 and so on. They didn't add jets to 153ps because they knew it would be seen right away. Like I said the changes were made to test. This also in not hear say. I was on comms with them. They even asked permission to run them on the 334th server which I was a part of. We denied their request and also asked them not to advertise their Mods. When I created the USL league, Mods were one of the biggest issues we had to deal with. 1C definetly didn't add in enough security into the software to block the Mods.
Guys everytime you think a Sim or game is lacking your gona change it to make you happy? Is that how it works? Where does it end? Look at what happened to CFS series. They are some day going to come out with B.O.B and whats gona happen then? How fast are you people gona want to Mod that? People are never satisfied. Never. Somebody always has to ruin it for the others.

[fly_zo]

I come from the thought that Mods=Cheating. If 1C wanted to allow Mods they would have created a section like in the Call of Duty games for Mods.


not if tied by contracts to Ubi ....

other stuff you've posted is just hear-say .... if it was true we would have x-wings flying all over servers by now .

Z

[Baron]

not if tied by contracts to Ubi ....

other stuff you've posted is just hear-say .... if it was true we would have x-wings flying all over servers by now .

Z



Well done,mr Fly_zo, call him/everyone with a differant oppinion a liar and or a wannabe cheat.


U sir, are a complete idiot.



P.S. Dont bother spouting bs back at me...u are ignored.

[Prince_BK]

Read my Post again. I clearly state I was on comms with them. It was before they started AAA website and server.

[fly_zo]

Read my Post again. I clearly state I was on comms with them. It was before they started AAA website and server.


ah, sorry then .... well, obviously they changed their minds after AAA was started

cos no x-fighters there and its been over a Year now

Z

[Razer]

Well done,mr Fly_zo, call him/everyone with a differant oppinion a liar and or a wannabe cheat.


U sir, are a complete idiot.



P.S. Dont bother spouting bs back at me...u are ignored.


LOL.

Baron. You, sir, are a grade A Knob.

:roll:

[LEXX]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/PinkSunny.gif
Baron:: "nock it off"
Visualize Sargent Carter...nock it off Pyle, what's wrong with you!



Prince:: I come from the thought that Mods=Cheating. If 1C wanted to allow Mods they would have created a section like in the Call of Duty games for Mods.
:
:
They are some day going to come out with B.O.B and whats gona happen then? How fast are you people gona want to Mod that?

Oleg plans to allow some form of modding in BoB And Beyond. Now that could make Oleg a cheater by the playground bullie's original definition: Anybody who wants to mod or who allows modding.

[LEXX]

mmm...better.

The bullies' definition of cheaters included those who ...

Wanted to mod.
Use mods.
Encourage modding ...ie possibly Oleg in BoB And Beyond.


The definition may have to change.

[Brain32]

Look, I'm not saying there are not valid concerns about mods etc, I'm just saying the mass hysteria and doom and gloom are unjustified, as are the insults people are posting about mod users. If you feel that the cracking of the code is something you do not want to have anything to do with then thats fine, good on ya, but don't slander those with a different opinion and certainly don't spread lies and misinformation about the mods themselves just because you disagree with the way this started. Feel free to argue all day about the root of the issue and what it is that you disagree with, the cracking of olegs IP, but there's no need to sling mud and to take the topic to ridiculous area's that have nothing to do with reality or the cracking of the code.
Sorry but wrong adress, if Copperhead and some other insult you, then that's the problem with you and him/them there is no need to spread BS on me. That is the problem with such discussion as you guys get so fired up by the flamers you also can't discuss reasonably.
Cheats are a problem now and they weren't before, you again here tried to justify and explain what I said but we both now it's BS.

There is also one thing even worse than cheats - the mistrust between players and the doubt you have at every strange thing you see especially if once you really saw cheating in use. I know you guys are just humans also and get offended reading Coppers and some other posts but if you would see just what you post from a "third" persons view you would find little to no difference between Copperhead's comments and yours.

Same sh1t - different wrapping ;)

[LEXX]

Brain:: Cheats are a problem now and they weren't before,...
Actually, anonymous public servers always had severe problems with cheaters using game exploits, long before the mods came out.

The greatest reason people started flying in private servers and flying with people they knew was to escape the snotty behavior found in anonymous public servers. This is why modding is proving popular (edit -- is why going Mod is not hurting and so is popular) among many of the serious online communities now, as I always predicted. How did I know this would happen? Because I always looked at online play as nothing but social interaction.

Sorry but wrong adress, if Copperhead and some other insult you, then that's the problem with you and him/them there is no need to spread BS on me.
Its not that easy. You can be associated by the people around you. It helps your position to jump in and put down false claims that seem to "take your side." I do that, although perhaps not often enough. Its hard to do with all the flaming.

[311thCopperhead]

Weasel (to Copper)
Yea I saw that too.

Unfounded. right.
there is a donation space rigth there on there site.
And i've been told that thier new unified installer....does not require that you 1st have the game installed.

unfounded....no i don't think so.

[Brain32]

Brain::
Actually, anonymous public servers always had severe problems with cheaters using game exploits, long before the mods came out.

If you are refering to proppitch age and stuff like that sorry but no sale, otherwise you could accuse anybody flying overmodelled plane a cheater - that's just too ridiculous...

[flyingbullseye]

And i've been told that thier new unified installer....does not require that you 1st have the game installed.


You've been told but don't know from first hand experience? I've got to believe you are better than that. How would the unified installer work when there is nothing for it to install to if you don't need the sim installed first?

Flyingbullseye

[311thCopperhead]

zo (about copper) ::
copper did that, lol. What was that all about?

Yeah i did. Was sent to me in an email from some one months ago when this whole thing 1st came up. the conversations as on what to watch for in a possible cheater. When i asked them the question...
"So umm how easy is it gonna be for the hackers to just rape everyone in the server with out getting caught?"

thier reply was a folder with all of the FM's. ALL OF THEM.
"All you do is edit the text files and repack the sfs. It's as imple as text editing a .mis file for a coop. the smart cheaters will buff their engine performance, and dm just enough not to get caught, but enough to own just about anyone."

Since i don't know what to do with this stuff i....even if i were the sort to use it, which i am not.....basically the point was to demonstraight how easy it has now become to cheat. yet, my attempt at making the point is moot since i have absolutley ZERO idea what would be doing.

I'll leave that to the pro haxxors kiddies over on that other site.
But that's how it came about. and i was attempting to show how easy it would be...and rather badly i might add.

[311thCopperhead]

You've been told but don't know from first hand experience? I've got to believe you are better than that. How would the unified installer work when there is nothing for it to install to if you don't need the sim installed first?

Flyingbullseye

I have not...nor will i ever download the trash posted on that web site.
I i fear that my PC may spontanously combust.
So no i have not tested it to see but rather am relying on information from
some one i'm freinds with on the inside over there. One of thier most trusted guys. The same person who sent me the FM's. One of the reasons i'm so up in arms about it. i KNOW what's going on behind the curtain.

and some of you can apint it any color you like but it's still gonna look like dog$hit in the end.

As for me proving the claims i make are not unfounded....the burden of proof lies with those whom think i'm BS'ing them. So prove what i've said is unfounded. prove it. i dare you. prove me wrong. you can't and you know it.

[LEXX]

Brain:: If you are refering to proppitch age and stuff like that sorry but no sale, otherwise you could accuse anybody flying overmodelled plane a cheater - that's just too ridiculous...
Well that's what happened. Everybody accused everybody of cheating with game exploits, even accusing Offline-only players, and begged Oleg to close every exploit, years before the mods. The serious online community escaped the snotty gamer behavior in private servers, which is why the mods are not hurting the online community now.

If you wish to talk more about this, we can talk.

[fly_zo]

...well , all we have is FM post which was real and spotted by many, and lot's of :" i don't know hacking .... it was sent to me .... i'm honest , i wouldn't never ever" statements which can not get confirmed nor checked ...

Fact remains that FM has been posted in public forum .... there isn't one good and honest reason why would one do that no matter how he obtained data .

Z

[flyingbullseye]

And i've been told that thier new unified installer....does not require that you 1st have the game installed.

Again how does that work without the sim?

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

I have not...nor will i ever download the trash posted on that web site.
I i fear that my PC may spontanously combust.
So no i have not tested it to see but rather am relying on information from
some one i'm freinds with on the inside over there. One of thier most trusted guys. The same person who sent me the FM's. One of the reasons i'm so up in arms about it. i KNOW what's going on behind the curtain.

and some of you can apint it any color you like but it's still gonna look like dog$hit in the end.

As for me proving the claims i make are not unfounded....the burden of proof lies with those whom think i'm BS'ing them. So prove what i've said is unfounded. prove it. i dare you. prove me wrong. you can't and you know it.


You're source is lying to you, period, end of story. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IL2 1946 INSTALLED AND PATCHED TO 4.08 IN ORDER TO GET THE UNIFIED INSTALLER TO WORK!!!!!!

In fact I did a fresh install and applied the unified installer and it didn't work, because I had forgotten to install the 4.08m patch.


Brain32, you are correct that we are guilty of throwing all anti-mod people in with the mods=cheat crowd, and for that I apologize. I've said before that I understand and respect the position of those who have thought it out honestly and still don't want to partake. It's the ones who spread flames, BS, and lies and do it loudly and with much venom that I rail against.

But to suggest that there was no cheating before the mods is ridiculous, I know you've been around for some time, I'm familiar with your handle, you should know better, there have been cheaters since the original il2. There has always been the suspicion of cheating as well, anytime I was on teamspeak with a group of people (way before the mods) and there was a person or a group of pilots that came in and started owning the whole server everyone in there would scream "cheat!" and start speculating about how they are cheating. Actual cheating and the suspicion of cheating are nothing new in this sim, it's always been there. Perhaps suspicion is up slightly but the actual cheating hasn't increased as far as I can tell.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Yeah i did. Was sent to me in an email from some one months ago when this whole thing 1st came up. the conversations as on what to watch for in a possible cheater. When i asked them the question...
"So umm how easy is it gonna be for the hackers to just rape everyone in the server with out getting caught?"

thier reply was a folder with all of the FM's. ALL OF THEM.
"All you do is edit the text files and repack the sfs. It's as imple as text editing a .mis file for a coop. the smart cheaters will buff their engine performance, and dm just enough not to get caught, but enough to own just about anyone."

Since i don't know what to do with this stuff i....even if i were the sort to use it, which i am not.....basically the point was to demonstraight how easy it has now become to cheat. yet, my attempt at making the point is moot since i have absolutley ZERO idea what would be doing.

I'll leave that to the pro haxxors kiddies over on that other site.
But that's how it came about. and i was attempting to show how easy it would be...and rather badly i might add.

Man you really spread this stuff on thick.... FUD seems to be your MO.

Since you seem to be in the know it's pretty clear you aren't after some of the comments you've made.

Let's just say there is a surprise coming.

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

These "new fans" ergo, "new customers" as you call them....they are not buying the sim. they are not putting money in Olegs/1C's pockets....they're STEALING. none of them need to purchase the game any more. when it can be had for free download. The mods ppl have made it compleatly unnessacary to purchase the game any more.
So while ppl my self who have spent hundreds of dollars buying each consecutive release of the sim....they're getting it for free.
How fair is that? not very at all.

Quote:As for me proving the claims i make are not unfounded....the burden of proof lies with those whom think i'm BS'ing them. So prove what i've said is unfounded. prove it. i dare you. prove me wrong. you can't and you know it.

sure look above at your earlier post, how did you mangage to find out all these "new Fans" were stealing?Thats some heavy"big brother is watching You" i dont even think the goverment could cope with that one :-P Amazing

[JG27CaptStubing]

You're source is lying to you, period, end of story. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IL2 1946 INSTALLED AND PATCHED TO 4.08 IN ORDER TO GET THE UNIFIED INSTALLER TO WORK!!!!!!

In fact I did a fresh install and applied the unified installer and it didn't work, because I had forgotten to install the 4.08m patch.


Brain32, you are correct that we are guilty of throwing all anti-mod people in with the mods=cheat crowd, and for that I apologize. I've said before that I understand and respect the position of those who have thought it out honestly and still don't want to partake. It's the ones who spread flames, BS, and lies and do it loudly and with much venom that I rail against.

But to suggest that there was no cheating before the mods is ridiculous, I know you've been around for some time, I'm familiar with your handle, you should know better, there have been cheaters since the original il2. There has always been the suspicion of cheating as well, anytime I was on teamspeak with a group of people (way before the mods) and there was a person or a group of pilots that came in and started owning the whole server everyone in there would scream "cheat!" and start speculating about how they are cheating. Actual cheating and the suspicion of cheating are nothing new in this sim, it's always been there. Perhaps suspicion is up slightly but the actual cheating hasn't increased as far as I can tell.

What's funny about all this talk about cheating its not as wide spread as some of you would like to believe. The guys that have been able to get past simple server settings don't last long and are booted. In addition this sim for the most part appeals to older guys which aren't into cheating. The young ones are the trouble makers and are usually dispatched as soon as they are found.

The good news is there are several guys in the mod groups that are working hard on making sure cheats aren't spread or encouraged.

[JG27CaptStubing]

These "new fans" ergo, "new customers" as you call them....they are not buying the sim. they are not putting money in Olegs/1C's pockets....they're STEALING. none of them need to purchase the game any more. when it can be had for free download. The mods ppl have made it compleatly unnessacary to purchase the game any more.
So while ppl my self who have spent hundreds of dollars buying each consecutive release of the sim....they're getting it for free.
How fair is that? not very at all.


Are you for real? You actually think the folks that are doing the mods have made it so you don't need to purchase the game? You my friend need to really investigate things before making silly comments like that.

Fear mongering is what this is all about.

[kristorf]

And i've been told that thier new unified installer....does not require that you 1st have the game installed.

unfounded....no i don't think so.


I've been the earth is flat, do I believe it or do I check for myself before spreading rumours????

How can you post some of your comments mate if you believe in hearsay and don't know facts, dodgy grounds for an arguement

[flyingbullseye]

I finally bought/upgraded to 1946 a month ago just for the mods, otherwise I had no reason to upgrade. Cost me $15 on amazon.com. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. What then have I stole? Nothing. I don't have the code, don't want it. All I have now are improved sounds, clouds, effects, cockpits and a few aircraft that as far as I can tell don't fly any diferent than the stock counterparts. I have yet to see any FM or DM mods, though what I do see at the site are new aircraft that the mod devs are putting a lot of time into getting it historically correct in most or all of its aspects within limits to the sim. The claim that people don't buy it anymore is made out of pure ignorance. Curious though, I wonder how this argument would be going if Oleg gave the community all the mod tools himself and said have fun.

Flyingbullseye

[Feathered_IV]

And i've been told that thier new unified installer....does not require that you 1st have the game installed.

unfounded....no i don't think so.

Your friends are deliberately giving you false information to egg you on.
They are most likely setting you up for exactly this. You get all outraged over your trusted misinformation, everybody jumps on you. You retaliate in-kind and things escalate out of hand. And all the while, your friends are laughing behind your back.

[WTE_Galway]

Curious though, I wonder how this argument would be going if Oleg gave the community all the mod tools himself and said have fun.

Flyingbullseye


Nothing would change.

Opposition to mods was based in experience of the total stupidity that eventually resulted out of the use of mods in older sims (pretty much destroying the games online) and recollection of how the lack of hacks and mods was one of Il2's big attractions in the early days - not some misplaced allegiance to Oleg.

In reality, most anti-modders (such as myself) have voted with their feet and simply given up playing online and do not nother to ever comment - very few are actually vocal about it in forums. These days most pro-mod posts (even by fanboys) are just ignored. Its the occasional anti-mod comment that gets attacked and devolves into a flame war.

[LEXX]

And now we find that opposition was always wrong, as I always predicted. The reason CFS failed was lack of support from the developer. Oleg didn't abandon his sim the way Microsoft abandoned their sim, although he severely crippled it himself by catering to the arcade dogfight server segment at the expense of his offline financial base and to some extent the online war segment also. That is a mistake he looks like he may have learned from.

WTE:: In reality, most anti-modders (such as myself) have voted with their feet and simply given up playing online and do not nother to ever comment - very few are actually vocal about it in forums.
That's a good sign of the community maturing. The old anonomous public server bullies who dominated the forums slowly fade away from the playground by giving up the sim, by enjoying a no-mod sim the same as mod simmers enjoy a modded sim, or by going mod themselves.

[Bearcat]

And now we find that opposition was always wrong, as I always predicted. The reason CFS failed was lack of support from the developer. Oleg didn't abandon his sim the way Microsoft abandoned their sim, although he severely crippled it himself by catering to the arcade dogfight server segment at the expense of his offline financial base and to some extent the online war segment also. That is a mistake he looks like he may have learned from.

WTE::
That's a good sign of the community maturing. The old anonomous public server bullies who dominated the forums slowly fade away from the playground by giving up the sim, by enjoying a no-mod sim the same as mod simmers enjoy a modded sim, or by going mod themselves.

I kinda disagree there Lexx.. I do believe that mods or the uncontrolled use of them was a direct factor in the demise of CFS... It got to the point where you just couldn't tell what was a cheat and what wasn't.. CFS3 was another big factor... the fact that it was such a pig.. I seriously believe that the difference is the community in this case is a huge factor in why we don't see what we saw in CFS.. That is one reason why it irks me so when I hear all this nonsense... We are not like most other flight sim communities because this sim is not like other sims. Most of us came here for a reason. We could have stayed in CFS but we didn't.. the integrity of the sim is one reason why, so to think that just because we now have mods the first thing every one will want to do is start modding FMs is insulting, and just plain wrong. For most of us the integrity of the sim is still a factor and the fact that so many mods are functional enhancements is a testament to that. If any one who has issues with these mods would go to the AAA site they would see what was going on... even if they still chose to not use them.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Actually I challenge anyone to go to their site and show me a single mod that is considred a cheat or an FM change for that matter.

Copperhead is talking pure nonsense and clearly demonstrates he knows very little about the mod groups.

[Feathered_IV]

I kinda disagree there Lexx.. I do believe that mods or the uncontrolled use of them was a direct factor in the demise of CFS...


Il-2 was the biggest facter in the demise of CFS. The first time I had an aircraft almost swap ends by pulling too tight a turn - I knew I could never go back to the MS series again.

[311thCopperhead]

Actually I challenge anyone to go to their site and show me a single mod that is considred a cheat or an FM change for that matter.

Copperhead is talking pure nonsense and clearly demonstrates he knows very little about the mod groups.


No....i've been over there and i've seen what is going on. on the surface.
and to be honest there's things being done that arent 1/2 bad. Like the expanded QMB. I could even possibly get the sims regimentals fixed. IF i were to get behimd it. That will never happen though unless the sim is opend by Oleg.
But in the end...no matter what they do over there, good or bad, right or wrong.....at the end of the day it's still illeagal, it's still stabbing Oleg in the back, and it's still, no matter how hard they claim that they try, allowing the code to be accessed by those who would manipulate it for thier own petty reasons. And they are not the gaurd dogs of the sims code. AAA is not the only place that has it...or is useing it. So this fantasy that Jolly, FlyZo, Worf...and the others there have that they can some how keep the sims integrety secure and mod it at the same time is simply a figment of their own deluded imaginations. and that's just how it is.
but....it's starting to set in that the cats out of the bag, as Bearcat says. Once Pandora's box has been opened....it's not gonna get closed. far too mnay mod junkies roaming the streets now to lock em all up. Now that does not mean i'm gonna be caught with a glass mod pipe in my pocket going "hey maaaan please let me just get one hit."

but i am starting to see that the argument is becomming moot. and i'm growing tired of it.
and of THOSE f-ing ppl. so. i think i'm done with it.

[fly_zo]

but i am starting to see that the argument is becomming moot. and i'm growing tired of it.
and of THOSE f-ing ppl. so. i think i'm done with it.

thank you Sir .... please leave and never come back

you had your 15 min. of glory

Z

[Wolf_Rider]

The reason CFS failed was lack of support from the developer. Oleg didn't abandon his sim the way Microsoft abandoned their sim, although he severely crippled it himself by catering to the arcade dogfight server segment at the expense of his offline financial base and to some extent the online war segment also. That is a mistake he looks like he may have learned from.




Wrong Lexx... CFS series was designed and sold as "open architecture" and the MS team encouraged the development of third party mods..... with no quality control on MS behalf, just caveat emptor.

MS FS series is exactly the same, though with a bit of behind the scenes (for the sake of mod/ add on makers pockets) "consideration". They've only just now reaslised (FSX) after months (years in fact) of being told... their trees bring the sim to a crawl on most machines.

What killed CFS2 was three things, perhaps four. One, was The Zone Monster... Two, was cheaters... Three was CFS3 (with il2 being already released) and Four, was third party mod/ addon makers taking things over.



A wider choice of how the sim/ game could be played Lexx... leads to a wider sales base.

[Bearcat]

AAA is not the only place that has it...or is useing it. So this fantasy that Jolly, FlyZo, Worf...and the others there have that they can some how keep the sims integrety secure and mod it at the same time is simply a figment of their own deluded imaginations. and that's just how it is.
but....it's starting to set in that the cats out of the bag, as Bearcat says. Once Pandora's box has been opened....it's not gonna get closed. far too mnay mod junkies roaming the streets now to lock em all up. Now that does not mean i'm gonna be caught with a glass mod pipe in my pocket going "hey maaaan please let me just get one hit."


Ummmm Worf? Worf is one of my squaddies.... He has nothing to do with AAA except for visiting the site.. Don't you mean Wolf?




What killed CFS2 was three things, perhaps four. One, was The Zone Monster... Two, was cheaters... Three was CFS3 (with il2 being already released) and Four, was third party mod/ addon makers taking things over.


I agree for the most part.. but the fact that the modding apparatus was so open didnt help either ... One of the differences is that here... we have a history of sim integrity... in CFS that was not the case.. When I came to the Zone in 2001 modcheat paranoia was going full tilt and justifiably so.... This sim was the only un modded sim available that was any good.. I think that was one of it's biggest selling points in light of MSCFS... I believe that most of the modders.. at least the ones at AAA (I cant speak for any other group..) want to maintain the integrity of the sim... thats why most of their mods are enhancements... that's why they take the steps to not promote FDW mods... They will happen.. and they would be happening if AAA existed or not.. but i think that since the sim was hacked years ago.... and that fact wont change it is a good thing that there is a place where people can get mods and not have to worry about the darker side of the issue.. As I said I am sure it exists... that potential has been since the sim was first hacked.. back when the only ones who had it were a certain Russian squad whose mane begins with an R... but I wont deny the good stuff coming out of AAA becuase of that.. and since once SoW comes out things will begin to shift.. I want to enjoy this sim as much as I can now... there are bigger moral issue on my plate than whether or not to use mods in a flight sim that I have paid thousands of dollars to enjoy over the past 7.5 years..

[JG27CaptStubing]

No....i've been over there and i've seen what is going on. on the surface.
and to be honest there's things being done that arent 1/2 bad. Like the expanded QMB. I could even possibly get the sims regimentals fixed. IF i were to get behimd it. That will never happen though unless the sim is opend by Oleg.
But in the end...no matter what they do over there, good or bad, right or wrong.....at the end of the day it's still illeagal, it's still stabbing Oleg in the back, and it's still, no matter how hard they claim that they try, allowing the code to be accessed by those who would manipulate it for thier own petty reasons. And they are not the gaurd dogs of the sims code. AAA is not the only place that has it...or is useing it. So this fantasy that Jolly, FlyZo, Worf...and the others there have that they can some how keep the sims integrety secure and mod it at the same time is simply a figment of their own deluded imaginations. and that's just how it is.
but....it's starting to set in that the cats out of the bag, as Bearcat says. Once Pandora's box has been opened....it's not gonna get closed. far too mnay mod junkies roaming the streets now to lock em all up. Now that does not mean i'm gonna be caught with a glass mod pipe in my pocket going "hey maaaan please let me just get one hit."

but i am starting to see that the argument is becomming moot. and i'm growing tired of it.
and of THOSE f-ing ppl. so. i think i'm done with it.

I'm not going to debate you on what is right at wrong here but I will debate you until the cows come home on several of the inaccuracies you've been posting. Things like the AAA mods allow people to play the game without actually purchasing the game. Utter nonsense and you know it.

Regardless if you think it's right or wrong the fact is there is a movement to continue to enhance the game. So far from what I've some very responsible and very good stuff being done by some of these guys. New Channel Maps Slot maps some new planes etc are proving to be great additions to the game.

I will let the corporate types figure out if it's right or wrong.

Meanwhile I suggest you look into some things and be less closed minded because there is some good stuff helping this dying genre.

Oh and before you lump me in with the bad guys not paying for my copies of the games I can assure you I've purchased IL2 and all the addons over 8 times. Oleg and crew have made some money off of me not to mention I promote it to anyone that is vaguely interested.

[GAE_Charrua]

Can somebody tell me what thinks Oleg about the MOD?
Thanks.
S! All

[LEXX]

CFS was not killed by mod cheating because most customers were Offline players. Even they could see the sim was not that great, especially since Microsoft botched the project long term, while IL-2/FB was pretty good at start. Microsoft abandoned the sim in an unfinished state. That's what killed that sim.


Wolf:: What killed CFS2 was three things, perhaps four. One, was The Zone Monster... Two, was cheaters... Three was CFS3 (with il2 being already released) and Four, was third party mod/ addon makers taking things over.
Exactly what I'm talking about -- "online" issues. You are considering "online" only. Online is irrelevant unless a sim is Pay-To-Play. Mods can't kill a primarily Offline game. Mediocraty and abandonment can kill an Offline game, which Microsoft CFS primarily was.

Even more interesting: Remember TAGERT at ubi.com. He told us that mods didn't kill CFS3, but accusations of cheating with mods DID kill it. I had to remind him that it may have killed "online" only, but not offline -- Microsoft killed offline play in that game. TAGERT even told us that he never saw a mod cheat incident, he was told about it by others he trusted, so he was still anti-mod in this sim because he was concerned over the potential for accusations of cheating killing a ONLINE sim. ie...lack of community. I agree with your (Bear's) view on the requirement for a bullish community, while a bearish community can kill an online sim.

[Feathered_IV]

mods didn't kill CFS3, but accusations of cheating with mods did kill it.


Hmm. Thats a really good point.

[311thCopperhead]

thank you Sir .... please leave and never come back

you had your 15 min. of glory

Z

kiss my ass. i'm not going any where bub so get used to it.

[proton45]

wo...this old bird is still gett'in tossed around. The issue is pretty dead. You got three choices here, 1)play with your friends, 2)shut-up and take your chances on-line, or 3) go offline.

[Wolf_Rider]

Lexx::

Quote...

"Exactly what I'm talking about -- "online" issues. You are considering "online" only. Online is irrelevant unless a sim is Pay-To-Play. Mods can't kill a primarily Offline game. Mediocraty and abandonment can kill an Offline game, which Microsoft CFS primarily was."

So ya test ya skills online and keep the fun going. Lexx, online pay to pay or online Hyperlobby, etc... is still online. (Nice diversion attempt though ;) )

"Even more interesting: Remember TAGERT at ubi.com. He told us that mods didn't kill CFS3, but accusations of cheating with mods DID kill it. I had to remind him that it may have killed "online" only, but not offline -- Microsoft killed offline play in that game. TAGERT even told us that he never saw a mod cheat incident, he was told about it by others he trusted, so he was still anti-mod in this sim because he was concerned over the potential for accusations of cheating killing a ONLINE sim. ie...lack of community. I agree with your (Bear's) view on the requirement for a bullish community, while a bearish community can kill an online sim."

CFS3 was an extremely problemated POS, which was poorly produced and writen... it had so many bugs in it, cockroaches were embarrassed.

Mods - offline or online is supporting the hacking of the sim and there is no two ways about.

[Bearcat]

Lexx::

Quote...

"Exactly what I'm talking about -- "online" issues. You are considering "online" only. Online is irrelevant unless a sim is Pay-To-Play. Mods can't kill a primarily Offline game. Mediocraty and abandonment can kill an Offline game, which Microsoft CFS primarily was."

So ya test ya skills online and keep the fun going. Lexx, online pay to pay or online Hyperlobby, etc... is still online. (Nice diversion attempt though ;) )

"Even more interesting: Remember TAGERT at ubi.com. He told us that mods didn't kill CFS3, but accusations of cheating with mods DID kill it. I had to remind him that it may have killed "online" only, but not offline -- Microsoft killed offline play in that game. TAGERT even told us that he never saw a mod cheat incident, he was told about it by others he trusted, so he was still anti-mod in this sim because he was concerned over the potential for accusations of cheating killing a ONLINE sim. ie...lack of community. I agree with your (Bear's) view on the requirement for a bullish community, while a bearish community can kill an online sim."

CFS3 was an extremely problemated POS, which was poorly produced and writen... it had so many bugs in it, cockroaches were embarrassed.

Mods - offline or online is supporting the hacking of the sim and there is no two ways about.

Tagert was wrong... I saw enough mods in CFS to make it not worth my while. One incident I remeber in particular was by someone named "movegetouttheway" .. this guy was all over the place taking out everyone in the room.. regardless to side. There were othrs.. There were real cheats and cheaters were all over the place in CFS... Thats why so many left CFS to come here.

[fly_zo]

kiss my ass. i'm not going any where bub so get used to it.

so that was just another BS from you ..... good thing is that one can get used to any stench if present long enough so i'll live just fine with you around .

not holding to your own words = spineless
posting FM of stock plane publicly = shameful
trying to dig your way out of it = idiotic ... ups, sorry i meant :pathetic

Z

[GAE_Charrua]

thank you Sir .... please leave and never come back

you had your 15 min. of glory

Z

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :mrgreen:

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Tagert was wrong... I saw enough mods in CFS to make it not worth my while. One incident I remeber in particular was by someone named "movegetouttheway" .. this guy was all over the place taking out everyone in the room.. regardless to side. There were othrs.. There were real cheats and cheaters were all over the place in CFS... Thats why so many left CFS to come here.

Bearcat,

sorry pal, but here you are wrong. You can't cheat in CFS3 because of the checksum comparaison system. It compares a/c data of all users. If you don't have the same, you can't enter the game, period. It's true that Mods killed online CFS3, but not because of cheating, but because of the impossibility-or almost- to find people with the same modded install. The checksum system worked so well that nobody could join nobodys room anymore if you wouldn't play vanilla stock. There were more than one online squads that gave up because of this. However, stock online rooms existed until they took the server down.

[LEXX]

Wolf:: Nice diversion attempt
I assume CFS offline players greatly outnumbered CFS online players. Its a business thing.

HOWEVER -- I will say online has the potential to be far better than offline. Online War can offer *everything* an offline dynamic campaign can (if done right), but with the addition of Human vs Blue Side ... social interaction relating to aviation hysteria, or even semi-hysterical "what if" scenarios. My top fave is SAC vs PVO starting about 1947, both sides using German tech basically (well, kinda). Beats the canned copy-paste gaming industry standard USAAF vs Luft 1946 which is okay but very limited because the hysterical war ended and stopped German aircraft development cold. But you need a whole online squad to keep one B-36 flying all the way to its target heehe, each squad mate/mattette taking turns over the better part of a day. :cool:

[Bearcat]

Bearcat,

sorry pal, but here you are wrong. You can't cheat in CFS3 because of the checksum comparaison system. It compares a/c data of all users. If you don't have the same, you can't enter the game, period. It's true that Mods killed online CFS3, but not because of cheating, but because of the impossibility-or almost- to find people with the same modded install. The checksum system worked so well that nobody could join nobodys room anymore if you wouldn't play vanilla stock. There were more than one online squads that gave up because of this. However, stock online rooms existed until they took the server down.

I was thinking more of CFS1&2.. I could never get CFS3 to run right and I thought it was such a POS that I didnt even include it in the running other than to say it stank.... for me anyway.

[Wolf_Rider]

I was thinking more of CFS1&2.. I could never get CFS3 to run right and I thought it was such a POS that I didnt even include it in the running other than to say it stank.... for me anyway.

Totally agree with you on CFS3 bearcat... CFS1, didn't do much for me but CF2 was worth it's weight in salt at the time. Which brings me to ask; "where did the Zone Monster grow from"?

it grew from the growing amount of mods being used.

I didn't keep CFS3 long enough to explore online and i was lead to believe the mismatch thingy was to ensure all players had the same files, not just be running "vanilla/ stock/ out of the box".... CFS2 had a cheat detect entry which could be used by writing it into the .cfg file... sad it was to see a squad member in a "supposedly" stock/ vanilla/ purist zone room on a squad night, with an asterix against their name in the tally room.


Lexx... when it comes to supporting a hack, there is no difference between online and offline as the hack was done to the sim itself

[skarden]

@ Copperhead,first of all i use the mods but I understand and repect your opinion to a certain degree and i definitely repect your right to post it but(ther's always a but)

The argument that the hacks are illegal to me holds absolutly no water unless you can say that you'v honestly NEVER broken the law yourself.

Say as an example,it would be safe to say that most of us here who can drive have on occasion put the ol pedal to the metal as they say and had a bit of fun at speeds that you could definitely say would be classed as illegal.Now speeding kills ppl and ruins families,make no mistake and we've all done it at some stage(hell I even lost my license when i was younger to such stupidity)even you I'm willing to bet(although pls correct me if I'm wrong)which of course would have put lives,even if its just your own in some danger.

So to turn around and use that argument as to why ppl should not use a game mod for a game/simulation that most ppl havnt heard of(their loss! :P)that harms no-one(really it is no-one) seems a little,well....hypocritical.

I'm not trying to insult you(really I'm not) or get into a sledging match but that just how i see it from my point of view.

thoughts?

~S~

[Furio]

Skarden,
Not answering for Copperhead, but it depends on where you draw the line. Taking for granted that all of us have speeded out of legal some times, it means that we can do anything? Selling drugs? Shooting at wildlife in a park? Killing your wife? I’m not saying that modding a game is like killing, of course, but don’t you think that your example is somewhat ambiguous? My opionion, of course.

[skarden]

Thats a fair call Furio,and to be honest it is a little ambiguous,my bad(I always lost debates at school :P)It's just that copperhead has said that one of the reasons he says he doesnt want to go the mod path is that it's illegal.

to me it's kinda like saying well this guy(anyone really) has hacked a game illegally and that is just NOT cool or acceptable,yet this other guy(once again anyone) who speeds sometimes and could cause an accident and possibly hurt or kill someone is ok.

To me it's a double standard.

That said I have seen threads both here and UBI that HAVE likened mod users to being all sorts of nasty stuff like crack heads and even pedophiles.

You are right furio and i agree but the line was drawn a while ago and we (mod user's) were very very very(i cant write enough very's here) wrongly pegged on the crack head and pedophile side by some of the anti mod ppl,defintely not all i know,just the loud ones that sometimes give the rest of you a bad name,just like some of the pro modders i guess.

[Furio]

Insults and “ad hominem” attacks should be avoided, period. In this you are right, Skarden. Both sides have indulged in this kind of sport, and this is the main reason for which I don’t take one side AGAINST the other.
Two examples.
Anti modders equate mods with cheats. In my opinion, this is a very weak argument. If my goal is to cheat, I would hack the game, and take advantage in absolute silence. The last thing I want and need is a place like AAA that attracts attention and raises suspicions.
Modders equate Oleg silence with an approval. In my opinion, this is a very weak argument too. Oleg’s silence may be explained differently. For example, he may consider a waste of time and money to sue AAA.
As for the “double standard” you are talking of, I think it comes from the very nature of the web. Being a place in which law enforcement is almost impossible, we all tend to ignore law, and talk of moral categories. In my opinion, this generates a lot of confusion. Your example about speed limits can prove it easily. In my country, if you over speed, you are fined. It’s an administrative offense, not a criminal one. If you break other people IP or copyright it’s another matter. That is a criminal offense, and you risk jail.
Different countries have different laws, and the web seems to have none. This places all of us in a difficult position, and we should make any effort to keep our debate within civil boundaries.

[Spectrum]

I was a latecomer to the IL-2 series, starting with Pacific Fighters. After that I back tracked and bought the earlier parts of the series. That would probably have been it.

--- but along came the mods, and it was that that persuaded me to buy the 1946 DVD, for the ease of installation that came with it. If it had not been for the mods I doubt I would have bothered.

How many other new sales have been generated like this? Or to look at it another way, have any sales been lost because of the mods?

[Furio]

Difficult to answer, without serious statistics which, I think, are way out of reach for all of us.
If I understand correctly, Spectrum, what are you implying is that more sales legitimate hacking (first) and mods (later)?
By the way, in my opinion, we should stop talking generically of “mods”. In AAA I’ve seen a lot of add-ons, albeit unofficial ones. For what I understand, FM modifications, or performances “corrections” are banned from the site.

[nearmiss]

Asking nice here...

This is the Il2 forums. We're all aware of MODS.

Oleg hasn't made a fuss about the MODS, but this is not the place to discuss them.

I'm sure most of you agree.

Discuss the MODS (modifications to IL2) where they should be discussed.

Thank you