IL2: Forgotten

[Beowulf]

The community is forgotten!

Oleg, or someone at Maddox or 1c. Can we have a tentative release of 4.09 please. Is it really so difficult to at least keep us abreast of the status on a quarterly basis??? jezz.

I'm sure this will get flamed with a bunch of "patience" or "they are working on it" or " much to do, third party has it held up" replies...

Come on let it go, the game will be done and allow you to devote ALL the time to those models in BOB and maybe we can see BOB before 2009 is over 18 mos from now!.

I know two weeks right!

down right ridiculous a company in business can't even update their own community on the status of a patch that has been out in beta for 5 mons+

A date please... simply a date. one you can stick to... Or i guess in fantasy land there are no timeframes :P

[C6_Krasno]

Oleg updated us :
Hi Guys,
I have posted dev update. Sorry for so long time no see. Simply we are so very busy with Alfa BoB and preparing of source code for Korean simulator... There was still no time-room for IL-2 4.09.. sorry.

[Beowulf]

And frankly that doesn't tell us Crap!

"sorry to busy to simply pack up third part infor for 4.09".. stop work on BOB then and finish something for goodnes sake...

A.) when will Maddox have time to complete 4.09
B.) Once time is available when will it be complete...

[Sovien]

The community is forgotten!

Oleg, or someone at Maddox or 1c. Can we have a tentative release of 4.09 please. Is it really so difficult to at least keep us abreast of the status on a quarterly basis??? jezz.

I'm sure this will get flamed with a bunch of "patience" or "they are working on it" or " much to do, third party has it held up" replies...

Come on let it go, the game will be done and allow you to devote ALL the time to those models in BOB and maybe we can see BOB before 2009 is over 18 mos from now!.

I know two weeks right!

down right ridiculous a company in business can't even update their own community on the status of a patch that has been out in beta for 5 mons+

A date please... simply a date. one you can stick to... Or i guess in fantasy land there are no timeframes :P

Patience.....







....i'm sorry I couldnt resist. :D


I'd actually rather see them devote more time to BoB at this point honestly then a patch for IL-2. Just my preference. *shrugs*

[C6_Krasno]

+1, I do not need a new patch for Il-2 now, but a new sim would make me happy...

[Sunchaser]

I do understand the wait can be a bit irritating but there is a stable beta released.

The only thing missing is whatever it needs for online servers or whatever but it can be played online too.

IL2 is off Olegs scope and the only action concerning it is happening elswhere.

Lucky for us it is, there is a lot of room left in IL2 and it is being filled quite well indeed.

[brando]

"...The only thing missing is whatever it needs for online servers or whatever but it can be played online too..."

Not quite true for mission writers. We are told that quite a few map changes have been made since 4.09beta1, and this may make coop/campaign writing a bit hit or miss. I.e. Will the missions still work when the final is released? A vexing question for those whose enthusiasm lies in that direction.

B

[KG26_Alpha]

Replace the word "patch" with "free update" .

Right ......

;)

Hi B just saw you post before me lol.

[Bearcat]

I.m enjoying the sim as much as I can get the chance to... but I understand BW...

[jasonbirder]

Replace the word "patch" with "free update"

I'm as pleased as everyone else about the support and updates both those purchased and those released as game patches that this game has had over the years...
But surely you should replace "free" with..."to ensure customer loyalty and maintain a viable client base ahead of our next commercial project in the absence of an expensive advertising campaign"
1C isn't Santa Claus you know ;)

[JG52Uther]

At this point I have doubts 409 final will ever be released.I would be happy enough if 1C just released the dedicated server patch so everyone online can move to 409.

[robtek]

@Jasonbirder

T A S T A A F L
(Quote from some R. Heinlein books(SF-Autor))

There´s ain´t such thing as a free lunch

[KG26_Alpha]

I'm as pleased as everyone else about the support and updates both those purchased and those released as game patches that this game has had over the years...
But surely you should replace "free" with..."to ensure customer loyalty and maintain a viable client base ahead of our next commercial project in the absence of an expensive advertising campaign"
1C isn't Santa Claus you know ;)


IL2 History has shown that even when updates are released the whining still goes on and the I want and wheres this list gets longer, thats what makes these threads immaterial IMHO.

And Oleg is Santa btw :)

[Feuerfalke]

IL2 History has shown that even when updates are released the whining still goes on and the I want and wheres this list gets longer, thats what makes these threads immaterial IMHO.

And Oleg is Santa btw :)

+1

When 4.09 is released (when, not if), the whining will just go on. "Why was plane x not included, why we havy plane y in the game", "[whatever]modelled wrong / undermodelled / ubermodelled", ...

And then crying for the next patch will start and we are at the same position, just without the chance of having a glimpse of what lies ahead by being able to play a beta. We've all been there before.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Before a software company can hand out a free update, they need to have a steady income. It just doesn't make sense at this stage to disrupt development of a new sim that will bring income into the company to make finish work that will not.

Do a search on this forum to see all the issues people have found with the 4.09 Beta, then guestimate the man hours neaded to fix these issues and times that by the wage of a professional programmer. Thats how much it'll cost to release this FREE add-on!

[Golf Pro]

I asked this on the last 4.09 thread and I'll ask again -

Is it possible to have an updated 4.09 beta with the corrected versions of the maps? This should require minimal effort on behalf of the 4.09 team, and will allow mission-builders to utilise the new maps knowing that their work won't be undone when the final 4.09 is released.

I think this is the least the 4.09 team can do to keep most of us happy without distracting them from BoB/Galba. It's very frustrating having the maps available but being inhibited from using them, knowing that certain key features have been changed, and also knowing that the corrected versions are sitting on the shelf when we could have them now.

[Xiola]

Whats so bad about 4.08m?

[JG52Uther]

Whats so bad about 4.08m?

No Slovakia map,no Bessarabia map,poor default skins...etc

[Xiola]

Can you not download some skins that you like?

[JG52Uther]

And the rest?

[Beowulf]

It's not so much that 'x' is missing or porked that I complain about. In fact I've never asked for a tweaked plane etc. since it is all the same for everyone.

The Maps is what I want to use and build stuff with On-line.

A beta server patch would be great at least we could make sure it works prior to closing the door on Maddox sanctioned IL2 Development.

It's BS plain and simple and yet another example of how the business is broken. Captive audience willing to wait forever with little or no information concerning the product other than "too busy"

Heck it's like dropping your car off at the garage for them to keep it for 5 months while they work on everything around it telling you all the while. "Sorry, too busy to get to it"..

All these third parties put a hell of allot of work into what they made Map wise. It's a damn shame Oleg can't show enough consideration to pack the items up and fork them over finished. Shame, Shame, they pick up your slack Oleg and all you do is poo on them.. But would you expect less from that side of the curtain.

[C6_Krasno]

A beta server patch would be great at least we could make sure it works prior to closing the door on Maddox sanctioned IL2 Development.
It's BS plain and simple and yet another example of how the business is broken. Captive audience willing to wait forever with little or no information concerning the product other than "too busy"
The way I see it : Il2 development was to be stopped a long time ago, we are lucky to have a 4.09 client beta, and if they ever release the final patch, it's really a bonus. Moreover, I know lots of squads which have done, or are doing, campaings on the new maps (they were released 6 months ago), and they don't mind if it is beta or not.
The glass is half full ;)

[Golf Pro]

Well I build missions and I DO mind about the maps being updated. So will those people who have already built campaigns if they find out they will have to do a substantial amount of re-work.

Again, it's not an unreasonable request to have a further Beta with the corrected maps, as I believe they exist, and that I also believe (correct me someone if I'm wrong) that to release them won't require any substantial extra work from Oleg's team. As I understand it, there's no pain and lots to gain, so why not do it? With the aspects of the patch that do require input from Maddox Games I perfectly understand why Oleg wants to prioritise BoB/Galba and so I'm happy to wait.

Updating the maps should be a quick win and will keep lots of us occupied rather than whining, and as Beowulf points out, the 3rd Party mapmakers deserve their work to be given a little more attention.

[VMF-214_HaVoK]

Oleg knows that if you guys get 4.09 you will just be whining for a 4.10 and more planes.

[JG52Uther]

Me and 10,000 others are already on 7.09

[robtek]

.......Again, it's not an unreasonable request to have a further Beta with the corrected maps, as I believe they exist..........


But of course this "request" is unreasonable!!!
You might wish to get this present from the 3rd Party developers and oleg.

Next thing is that people demand things for free.... that´s ridiculous.
As i quoted before : TANSTAAFL

[Golf Pro]

"request", "wish" - well if you like to play semantics, then it's a reasonable wish ;)

If providing us with the corrected maps involves additional work for the 3rd party developers and Oleg, then yes I agree it would be unreasonable. As I don't *think* (but don't *know* - maybe you could advise?) it would do, then why not provide them?

I'm not looking for a "free lunch". All I'm looking for is the correct versions of things that have already been provided so that I can confidently use them.

The lunch is there. Give me a knife and fork.

[robtek]

@golf pro

i can´t help it, for me you are appearing as demanding.
we can hope to get the final patch but we have no rights to expect anything given from om.
What have you done that you can demand the fork and the knife?

[Golf Pro]

Robtek - I would not really say that I'm "demanding", "requesting" or "wishing". I suppose what I'm doing is "suggesting" in the form of a "request". Yes I may appear to be "demanding" to you, and you appear to be being "arrogantly dismissive" to me. I'm sure that's not what either of us is *actually* doing, as we are communicating by the imperfect world of the internet, where subtlety is generally lost in translation.

Of course OM is inundated with hungry mouths, and whenever a request is made, whatever it's merits, it is just seen as another hungry mouth. This has become a kind of ritual where everybody makes requests as though theirs is the most important idea on Earth, then there's a knee-jerk assertive snapping back from OM's protectors regardless of the merit of the idea. This is the process we are both engaged in now.

I think whether my suggestion to release the updated maps is "reasonable" or "unreasonable" depends upon whether it would entail extra work for Oleg & Co. If it does I will accept this as being the case and not mention it again. If it doesn't then my suggestion would give many members of the community (especially mission builders) the opportunity to use these maps to the benefit of themselves and the rest of the community.

I see this as being more of technical question than one of "rights" and "demands". If it is easily achieved then I would *suggest* that whoever is responsible for the updated maps (don't think it's Oleg, actually) should at least consider their release via another beta patch. They can decide "yea" or "nay" accordingly. However I would *at least* like them to consider it.

[C6_Krasno]

I think whether my suggestion to release the updated maps is "reasonable" or "unreasonable" depends upon whether it would entail extra work for Oleg & Co. If it does I will accept this as being the case and not mention it again. If it doesn't then my suggestion would give many members of the community (especially mission builders) the opportunity to use these maps to the benefit of themselves and the rest of the community.Oleg said that they had no room for 4.09, I understand that there is extra work to do, that this work will be done when they can, and that they are at the moment too busy to do it.

[Vigilant]

The lunch is there. Give me a knife and fork.
\me ever so gently bumps Golf Pro's head into his mashed potato :wink:

I think we just have to be content with what we've got mate. This is just semantics now...

[Golf Pro]

Well, I'd be happy if someone said "There'll be no changes to the maps". That's even less work for Oleg & co. to do with 4.09. Or even "none of the airfield locations will be changed". We could all use the maps in full confidence then.

[Beowulf]

If i recall it is Oleg who offered 4.09 and now we are "demanding and "should pay" for something he offered.

I'd be more than happy to cough over for an update as long as it is forthcoming....

Not demanding simply making Oleg put his money where his mouth was... ;p

[Kernalklink]

@golf pro

i can´t help it, for me you are appearing as demanding.
we can hope to get the final patch but we have no rights to expect anything given from om.
What have you done that you can demand the fork and the knife?

Robtek What have you done that you can speak for Oleg? Who are you? On the IL2 team? Havok, you are a bigger whiner than anyone else. Bow to Oleg! He will wreak his disdain on you mortals if you complain! Some one raises a point and you hens have to cackle.

[Beowulf]

Robtek What have you done that you can speak for Oleg? Who are you? On the IL2 team? Havok, you are a bigger whiner than anyone else. Bow to Oleg! He will wreak his disdain on you mortals if you complain! Some one raises a point and you hens have to cackle.

+1

[robtek]

@kernalklink & beowulf

Of course i dont speak for oleg, i state My opinion, afaik thats what a forum is for, isn´t it?
And of course i am not surprised to get flamed from people who always demand more and more.
btw did i whine " give me the final patch, give me the next to final patch, give me... give me... give me..."???
I dont think so.
expect nothing and you wont be disappointed.

[Beowulf]

expect nothing and you wont be disappointed.

-1

[robtek]

@beowulf

maybe "be content with what you have" is a better term, because you´ve already gotten more than you paid for.

[Chivas]

The only thing Forgotten here is that Oleg stated he could not allocate resourses to the free 4.09 update, until those resourses were no longer required to complete SOW. Hes put his money were his mouth is...we need to improve our memories.

[robtek]

@chivas

1+

[crazyivan1970]

The only thing Forgotten here is that Oleg stated he could not allocate resourses to the free 4.09 update, until those resourses were no longer required to complete SOW. Hes put his money were his mouth is...we need to improve our memories.


Spot on.

[Beowulf]

The only thing Forgotten here is that Oleg stated he could not allocate resourses to the free 4.09 update, until those resourses were no longer required to complete SOW. Hes put his money were his mouth is...we need to improve our memories.

Refresh my memory and tell me the release date of SOW?.....???? ya thought so two weeks.

[Chivas]

Refresh my memory and tell me the release date of SOW?.....???? ya thought so two weeks.

The IL-2 series and community has benefited from many extra paid and free add-ons that have delayed SOW since 2005. Most people understand that the time would come when resources would have to switch focus to completing SOW. Its unfortunate that the free 4.09 update got caught in the middle.

[Feuerfalke]

Logic reasoning and reposting previous news or statements isn't something that is liked to be seen here, Chivas.

You either join the whining or get flamed - get used to it. ;)

[Mysticpuma]

I don't mind waiting for the 4.09 final, but what I feel was a shame, was that a Server 4.09 wasn't made available at the same time as the Beta release came out.

At least then we could have tried it online with many servers, rather than talking about it, and having to switch files to play offline 4.09 and online 4.08.

Hopefully it's going to be worth the wait......:rolleyes:

Cheers, MP.

[Chivas]

Logic reasoning and reposting previous news or statements isn't something that is liked to be seen here, Chivas.

You either join the whining or get flamed - get used to it. ;)

Yep...I've heard it all...starting from the beta test days. Actually those days started out very well until people found that their favorite plane was porked and everyone elses uber.

[Feuerfalke]

You mean they found out a top of the notch rig, a 500$ HOTAS+Pedals and 10.000 books & hours of HistoryChannel didn't make them aces on first flight and somebody had to take responsibility and it couldn't be themselves. ;)

[robtek]

@chivas & feuerfalke

you two are very, very bad persons :-D
to pick on people who are already whining.

[Skoshi Tiger]

You mean they found out a top of the notch rig, a 500$ HOTAS+Pedals and 10.000 books & hours of HistoryChannel didn't make them aces on first flight and somebody had to take responsibility and it couldn't be themselves. ;)

Dammn! I knew there was some reason why I keep getting killed online!

[Feuerfalke]

LOL - yeah, I missed the hours of HistoryChannel, that's my excuse. ;)

[proton45]

Logic reasoning and reposting previous news or statements isn't something that is liked to be seen here, Chivas.

You either join the whining or get flamed - get used to it. ;)

The rule seems to be that "whiners" are allowed to say ANYTHING they want to, BUT you are NOT allowed to point out the fact that their complaining is annoying.

The FACT of the matter is that WE ALL WISH that "BoB SoW" would be done so we could play it... but the "whiners" feel that they are special people.

So you might well wonder what a whiner hopes to accomplish by complaining...

Well:

1) A whiner feels like a "special person" so they want YOU TO LOVE THEM (agree with them)...

2) They hope that Oleg will respond to their complaint personally. (even if the reason's for "BoB SoW"s long development time hasn't changed sense last we heard, they hope that Oleg will respond to their "pain" personally).

3) The last thing to remember is that a whiner does NOT BELIEVE anything that Oleg has to say... so by re-posting old comments from Oleg you will just brand yourself a "kiss-ass".

REMEMBER the "whiner" isn't interested in the "truth" and they don't really care about anyone else. They just want special attention...The fact that we all are tired of waiting for "BoB SoW", AND are even MORE tired of listening to people whine about it, means nothing to them...

[Feuerfalke]

That perfectly sums it up, proton45! :cool:

~S!~

[Beowulf]

Somebody has had too much therapy in their life! whew :P

I don't want anyone to love me I love myself :P

I want a company to produce something that was promised many,many moons ago. They have left a game in limbo. I'd much rather they would have left it a 4.08M and said ok thats it!

But they chose to allow a beta to come out and now they haven't followed through with it.period.

No updates no schedule or anticipated date that is shared with the consumer. You can't tell me they don't have an idea of when it is gonna be out. They know no investor or business partner is gonna put up with them saying sorry no time.

It's will be done when it it is. Plain and simple I understand that.

Just some GD news on when the "King" might decide to throw the peasants a bone would be nice.

flame on!

[Chivas]

Question answered a long time ago.

Known Status...SOW still in alpha stage...resources still overloaded...

Prognosis...Absolutely no one knows...any new code is unpredictable and buggy

[Golf Pro]

tbh, everyone understands the "logic" behind the delay for 4.09. It's just that many of us question the logic.

I suspect that it would have been much more efficient to just get 4.09 completed and out of the way (and thus finish with the IL-2 series once and for all) so that all guns could really be focused on SoW. At the moment it's a running sore, as there's a) no completion of Il-2, and b) no initiation of SoW.

So we're sort of hanging in the air for both series. Not a whine, just an observation.

[BadAim]

Maybe Oleg has a present for us that he can't talk about right now. Hmmmmmm? ;)

[Feuerfalke]

tbh, everyone understands the "logic" behind the delay for 4.09. It's just that many of us question the logic.

I suspect that it would have been much more efficient to just get 4.09 completed and out of the way (and thus finish with the IL-2 series once and for all) so that all guns could really be focused on SoW. At the moment it's a running sore, as there's a) no completion of Il-2, and b) no initiation of SoW.

So we're sort of hanging in the air for both series. Not a whine, just an observation.

All guns ARE really focused on SoW ;)

Just a few people don't want to hear these news. Remember, this is not up to Oleg. This is 3rd Party-stuff that has to be done by other people and provided to him. So you say it's more logical to work on SoW, then stop, build another beta 4.09 test it, scrap it, start working on SoW again until the next update until the patch is finished?

The thing that makes my eyebrows rise is the certainty and the complete knowledge of some people who claim to have more insight into this thing than Oleg himself and how easy it is for some people to program a simulation or even maps in a matter of days, without even making money from it.

And let's not forget, Oleg did as you just suggested since AEP and now the same people demanding the patch are the same people flaming him for the late release of BoB? That makes pretty much zero sense IMHO, except you just want it all and right now.

[Golf Pro]

Well, obviously you wouldn't have to completely stop SoW to finish 4.09. It's an allocation-of-resources issue. It's not a false economy either as a finished 4.09 gives the community something to play with and buys a bit more time for SoW. If you say there's no money to be made from it, well, the whole Il-2 series was commercially under-exploited as regards add-ons, so it's a bit late to be complaining on that score.

[proton45]

tbh, everyone understands the "logic" behind the delay for 4.09. It's just that many of us question the logic.

I suspect that it would have been much more efficient to just get 4.09 completed and out of the way (and thus finish with the IL-2 series once and for all) so that all guns could really be focused on SoW. At the moment it's a running sore, as there's a) no completion of Il-2, and b) no initiation of SoW.

So we're sort of hanging in the air for both series. Not a whine, just an observation.


I guess I have never been much of a "armchair game developer" (armchair quarterback).

I don't put much stock in "what-if" scenarios, and I don't really see the point in second guessing other peoples choices...and I guess I don't really see the point in getting worked up over conspiracy theory's.

I guess that their is some part of me that feels that some people just like to complain...

P.S. Maybe I have missed something...but when was "BoB SoW" suppose to have come out?
I hear people saying that Oleg missed the promised dead line for "BoB's" release, and I want to know when that was suppose to have been (and when did he promise it)???

[JG52Uther]

2006..2007 latest (Oleg when asked if it would be released by end 2007 at the latest said it 'had to be' or words to that effect IIRC.

[Chivas]

Well, obviously you wouldn't have to completely stop SoW to finish 4.09.

That has been one of the major problems in the slow release of SOW. Not enough resourses to do both sims.

I would have much prefered there had been no updates since they first announced SOW. That includes Pacific Fighters and every paid and free addon since then.

We may have been flying BOB in 2005/6, the Med in 2007/8 and waiting with baited breath for SOW Pacific fighters or the SOW Eastern Front by the end of this year. All be it BOB SOW will be a far better in 2009 than a 2005/6 version would have been. That said BOB and Med would have been updated as new features became available.

You can play the IL-2 update game, but it has to end at some point. A third party mod gets caught in the middle....can't be helped.

[Chivas]

Also IL-2 would have been forgotten for the most part with modders given tools to mod the SOW series. Any unwanted on-line hacks would be looked at and dealt with if possible. We'd all be one happy community. lol

[Bearcat]

At this point I have doubts 409 final will ever be released.I would be happy enough if 1C just released the dedicated server patch so everyone online can move to 409.

While I have no doubts at all about 4.09 or 5.0 or whatever it will be being released ...what Uther said... Just updating the server patch to 4.09b1 would actually go a long way. It has been what.... 6 going on 7 months now... at least with a DS patch the DF servers could be updated with the new maps etc...


The only thing Forgotten here is that Oleg stated he could not allocate resourses to the free 4.09 update, until those resourses were no longer required to complete SOW. Hes put his money were his mouth is...we need to improve our memories.

True.. but still.... I wonder how much work it would be to release a 4.09b1 DS patch.. jjst so that everything can be on the same page... then if it took another 6 months for BoB to get here.. it wouldn't be as big a deal.... The only reason we even need switchers aside from the mod switchers is so that folks can go from DFs to COOPS.... or fiond COOPS running 4.08.

Either way... I am enjoying all that I have at my disposal now.... still.

[Krt_Bong]

You know I was one of those unfortunates who bought Enemy Engaged 2, a Game which was basically a re release but updated, it sucked and there was no place to go complain about it, lots of bugs but when a patch did come out, it hardly addressed any of them, so I can't play it at all and a support forum at their site is nearly invisible, but Oleg has bent over backward it seems to give us all kind of things and, we have all this forum to complain about it in infinite detail, in my eyes it was a mistake to release a beta of anything. Il-2 was supposed to be finished, But this is why the modding community is doing so well, people have a 1/2 patch that they want to use but can't. And gamers are an impatient voracious bunch who once they think there's something new in the works they're willing to ditch whatever was yesterday for tomorrow. I know next to nothing about programming and I'm sure some think it's just this little thing that would only take a minute, and whisk it off to us to download, but I think it might be wise to be patient and just shut up or we might not get nuttin!