Development takes too long I would scratch

[Bloblast]

the following a/c in the first release, and put them in later:

RAF flyables:
Blenheim Mk.IV, Gladiator Mk.II

RAF AI:
Wellington Mk.IC, Cierva C.30A/Avro Rota Mk.I (autogyro) & Sunderland Mk.I

Luftwaffe flyables:
He-111 P-2, Ju-88 A-1

Luftwaffe + Aeronautica flyables:
He-115, FIAT G.50, FIAT CR.42, FIAT BR.20M

[Feuerfalke]

Yet another self-proclaimed software developing and project organizing professional.

Welcome to the Club and take a number. :rolleyes:

[Bloblast]

Yet another self-proclaimed software developing and project organizing professional.

Welcome to the Club and take a number. :rolleyes:

Nonsens, I am not pretending anything it is just a suggestion.

I estimate that 90% will fly Bf109, Bf110, any german bomber, Hurri or Spit when the games comes out. The Italians would be nice to have in a later (payable) add-on, not really necessary in first release. Their role was modest in BoB anyway.

It assume that it costs a lot of time to make dynamic campaign for Italian fighter.

But I could be wrong, as I said just a suggestion.

[mazex]

Yet another self-proclaimed software developing and project organizing professional.

Welcome to the Club and take a number. :rolleyes:

Yet another rude and unnecessary comment... How many software projects have you led?

[Roy]

Yet another rude and unnecessary comment... How many software projects have you led?

lol... so true

[Feuerfalke]

@ mazex & Roy

I knew you'd post some comment, nonsense or not.

Indeed I have some knowledge about this, as I worked on several games and game-related projects so far, but *I* still can restrain myself from trying to teach professionals.

Now go figure if your comments were the first or later. ;)


@ Bloblast

You named the topic "Development takes too long I would scratch..."

How do you know that? Care to share your wisdom about the current status with us? Other than that I must indeed conclude that you are pretending the project is in a deep crysis and you also pretend to know what to do to speed it up. (infact you even pretended to know what machines people will fly...)

[JG52Uther]

I think we could also lose the Spitfire,Hurricane,Me109,and 110 and concentrate on the grass.

[mazex]

@ mazex & Roy

I knew you'd post some comment, nonsense or not.

Indeed I have some knowledge about this, as I worked on several games and game-related projects so far, but *I* still can restrain myself from trying to teach professionals.

Now go figure if your comments were the first or later. ;)


So you can restrain yourself from trying to teach professionals? Bashing every other post here - how could you know? I've led software projects with bigger budgets than SoW:BoB (no, I will not tell you for which company). Beeing in forums like this is something I enjoy in my spare time, when they don't deteriorate due to a few users not beeing able to follow normal social codes they hopefully would in real life.

You do have knowledge that is of interest for this forum - but why don't you just take it a bit easy instead of stepping on peoples toes? This thread is an exellent example. Why did you post a rude answer like number two above for someone making a suggestion? If you do not agree with the poster then tell him why in a normal tone, instead of a flame like above. That does not bring this forum forward.

[proton45]

Bloblast knew full and well what kind of response he could get from posting a comment like that...

[Feuerfalke]

That does not bring this forum forward.

You really surprise me again and again. Again you give EXACTLY the reason I answered to this thread the way I did and it's really funny that your comment does exactly the same what you just damned so much.

Of course with your lengthy top secret knowledge of software development with millions of dollar budget, you took the suggestion seriously, didn't you? I bet you worked on Microsofts ME or Vista, right - LOL :grin:


Sorry, now, seriously, what is your answer to that idea? You surely didn't come here to just flame me, did you? Should Oleg cancel these planes?

Roy, same for you. What do you think about this really great idea?



@JG52Uther
I'd like to cancel all British planes for the ability to pick flowers after landing.

[fireflyerz]

:arrow: Judging by the ammount of "whens" ( whens the next update or when is the release ) I think alot of people ,not just in this forum, are getting impaitient , this is another thread that has turned into Handbags at Dawn cos I think alot of people are a little concerned at the lack of info for
months now....Oleg ,if your watching ,(and I know you are ) throw the dogs a bone before they tear each other to shreads.:grin:

[jermin]

I smelt a zoo here.

[Feuerfalke]

:arrow: Judging by the ammount of "whens" ( whens the next update or when is the release ) I think alot of people ,not just in this forum, are getting impaitient , this is another thread that has turned into Handbags at Dawn cos I think alot of people are a little concerned at the lack of info for
months now....Oleg ,if your watching ,(and I know you are ) throw the dogs a bone before they tear each other to shreads.:grin:

I honestly hope he doesn't because in the past the only effect this had was to half the time people can restrain themselves from posting "whens".

[Tree_UK]

You have got to be a little bit sympathetic to all of us who are wanting updates/news, it is 2 years overdue already, in my opinion software houses should not be getting folk all excited about a product that is years away from completion, so wanting a bit of news or giving suggestions is hardly a crime. I happen to agree with Bloblast, scratch the less featured planes and introduce em later. Works for me. :)

[6S.Maraz]

I think we could also lose the Spitfire,Hurricane,Me109,and 110 and concentrate on the grass.

and London taxies and buses.... not to forget trains !!!! :)

Please not another incomplete game like Pacific Fighters !! ("there was not enough room in the CDs...") ... please take all the time needed...

Maraz

[Spectrum]

I think we could also lose the Spitfire,Hurricane,Me109,and 110 and concentrate on the grass.

I still intend to spend most time on the lawn mower cutting the grass. Oleg is planning to model some vintage Qualcast mowers isn't he?

[Feuerfalke]

I still intend to spend most time on the lawn mower cutting the grass. Oleg is planning to model some vintage Qualcast mowers isn't he?

Yes. And cows and sheep version 2.0 IIRC.

[ytareh]

Yes I also agree with the original poster if the rarer planes are holding up release even by a month or two I would scratch them for now.There are a host of reasons Oleg needs to get this game out asap OR give us a definitive release (even the QUARTER of whatever year)I would consider myself a loyal supporter of the game(I have bought everything Oleg has released since the original IL2) however I am disappointed to have to check daily at least three forums(of which sadly this 'official' one is far and away the least active and interesting-I think this is my second post here) for the latest community 'news'.I am disappointed that the 'parallel' IL2 community have not been embraced for the revival they have given the game but rather been made 'unmentionables'.I am unbelievably disappointed at the whole 'Two Weeks' syndrome .Time was when it meant in a couple of months eg early patches for IL2/FB .Then it progressed to 6-9 months eg Pacific Fighters and the Pe2 add on etc ...1946 ?A year plus ???SOW 3 years +++??? .And 4.09 whats going on there ???
Giving repeated wildly optimistic release dates does not 'keep us interested' ...It leads to friction eg the inevitable friction/flame wars between the Be Patient camp and the people who would like updates as in the 'Happy Days' of IL2 PR anyway...

[mondo]

I doubt Oleg and Co. will give a release date for Storm of War given previous experiance with letting on an intended release date. If you guys think anything less than 3 years to develop a title with its own bespoke engine is too long then you have no idea about software development.

[mazex]

Of course with your lengthy top secret knowledge of software development with millions of dollar budget, you took the suggestion seriously, didn't you? I bet you worked on Microsofts ME or Vista, right - LOL :grin:

Sorry, now, seriously, what is your answer to that idea? You surely didn't come here to just flame me, did you? Should Oleg cancel these planes?


I don't work somewhere top secret but I have no interest in mixing my personal interests with my professional role, that's why I do not write where I work. If you are interested - send me a PM and I will gladly give you my CV if you give me yours.

Regarding the idea of scrapping flyable planes to be able to release the product, I think that the idea is not that bad from a development methodology perspective. I'm a proponent of agile development and I've seen too many projects where the feature list and resources gets frozen - while the release date is not. The trick is to let the sacred feature list free and work with continuous integration to have working code that is possible to release as fast as possible, with new releases adding new features regularly. The problem with games is that reviews are written using version 1.0 of the software (or maybe including "zero day" patches), so the product has to be feature complete on release. In the case of "non-core" flyable aircraft, I think that they could be considered out of the feature scope. Thereby they could be released in upcoming patches...

However, I don't think that it's implementing the Italian planes etc that is holding up the project, even though Oleg has talked about 0,5 man year for each flyable. I guess that it's more fundamental issues of the core engine that's holding up the project. Possibly because Oleg has a vision that is better than we deserve - or demand. I think that IL2++ would do fine for most of us. Improve the graphics a bit with some shaders and increased texture sizes, better AI, multiplayer and a bit more immersion raisers for the single player campaign. That's enough for me...

[mondo]

Oleg stated he wanted a modular approach to the engine, it could be anything thats holding things up but I don't think its the plane models themselves that doing it.

I agree that if there using agile project management and modelling planes is the problem they can simply cut out some of the flyables and keep them AI until a later date and do sprints on those when they have time but until anyone from Olegs team states what the hold up are, its all speculation and usually that speculation is almost 99% wrong 99% of the time.

[proton45]

Oleg stated he wanted a modular approach to the engine, it could be anything thats holding things up but I don't think its the plane models themselves that doing it.

I agree that if there using agile project management and modelling planes is the problem they can simply cut out some of the flyables and keep them AI until a later date and do sprints on those when they have time but until anyone from Olegs team states what the hold up are, its all speculation and usually that speculation is almost 99% wrong 99% of the time.


I agree more or less.
From the statements Oleg has made in the past its more likely that work on the "core" game engine is whats taking so long (not the modeling of aeroplanes). Oleg has said that he wants to "code in" most of the features from the start (even if they are not actually implemented til later)...he has also said that he wants to get most of the "engine coding" done now (not later w/up-dates).
Its more likely they are working on the modular/modable/expandable future and stuff like that (tools for user mods, ect...)

[Roy]

@ mazex & Roy

Indeed I have some knowledge (...)
Typical... and you are black belt on several martial arts blah blah blah... :rolleyes:

[proton45]

It amazes me to no end...

Oleg has stated more then once that the game is no where near done (and he never promised a release date) and yet people wine and cry about release delays and having to wait for the game. Oleg even told us that he didn't know when "BoB SoW" would be done...I don't think he could have been any more clear about things...

[crazyivan1970]

the following a/c in the first release, and put them in later:

RAF flyables:
Blenheim Mk.IV, Gladiator Mk.II

RAF AI:
Wellington Mk.IC, Cierva C.30A/Avro Rota Mk.I (autogyro) & Sunderland Mk.I

Luftwaffe flyables:
He-111 P-2, Ju-88 A-1

Luftwaffe + Aeronautica flyables:
He-115, FIAT G.50, FIAT CR.42, FIAT BR.20M

The actual flyables or any aircraft for that matter is NOT the biggest challenge for Devs.. objects are still a LOT of work, but nowhere near as much as making them behave in the proper manner along with many other things...

[F19_Klunk]

kindergarten *s*

[Sim]

UB- zoo moved over to 1C....sad.

[crazyivan1970]

Considering that 99.9% of the people here post here and there... i dont understand what you are trying to say :D