The bailing out poll

[Avimimus]

Disclaimer: I am in no way a representative of Oleg the Great. Oleg is almost surely to busy at this point to implement our requests before the release (even if he'd like to). This is just a simple member to member poll.

Definitions
- 1st person has the entire sequence in first person or has the screen blanked out (ie. darkened) during part of the sequence
- 3rd person has part of the sequence (eg. jumping out of the plane or the parachute) in third person (other parts could be in first person or blanked out)

[Flyby]

this poll may gain a little traction! :D
Flyby out

[ElAurens]

I'd trade all of the above options for a flyable Boulton Paul Defiant or Avro Anson I.

[Feathered_IV]

A realism setting that requires awkward key inputs for every awkward step of a bail out. Eject canoy, disconnect radio, disconnect oxygen, release straps, bail out, pull rip-chord etc. ;)

[Former_Older]

I rather like allowing the crew to jump first. A small point maybe, but this also opens the possibility of having the AI perform this too under certain circumstances

[DKoor]

One key to bail.
Each member of the crew required to press bail key.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Picture this! We're in a bomber that's been shot up, Some of the crew are dead, some are seriously wounded and can't bail out!

I think as pilot in command, if we order our crew to bail out, one of them should tell us that we're sentencing the wounded ones certain death if we leave them.

Just think how heroic it would be to bring that bomber back on one engine or do a dead stick landing in a turnip field! Or how low you'ld have to be to run out on your disabled crew! We need to be given the choice! ;)

Which comes to the point. If we've got bombers with large crews, we're going to need realistic dialogue from the AI crew members. B17 2 was a good example!

[Feuerfalke]

I rather like allowing the crew to jump first. A small point maybe, but this also opens the possibility of having the AI perform this too under certain circumstances

+1 very good point - you should be able to order AI (or other players) to bail, while you try to keep the aircraft in the air for long enough

and

+1 for DKoor.

I don't care about the eyecandy, as it would mean a lot of work to model the complete sequence with all oddities that could happen (hitting wings and stuff, being wounded and pinned to the seat, drag, g-force-limitations, even the necessity to model interior and external details at the same time, etc.), but considering we will have a lot more player-crewed planes and bombers Former_Older and DKoor have some very strong points here.

[Avimimus]

Skoshi Tiger, I like the idea regarding wounded crew.

One key to bail.
Each member of the crew required to press bail key.

This is actually a viable alternative. The AI could individually decide when to bail. After all, there are many cases of crew members bailing out prematurely and a couple cases of gunners landing the plane after the pilot had jumped ship...

[RockStar]

To have control of pulling the chute cord in a first person view would be very cool.

[K_Freddie]

Yeah, nothing like free fall...
Also how about chutes being damaged, so they don't work that well ?

[ChosenOne]

To have control of pulling the chute cord in a first person view would be very cool.

Exactly!!!

[Feathered_IV]

Best to have scaleable difficulty levels for bailouts then. The arcade players can have their one-button-does-it-all and the simmers can jettison the canopy, unplug everything and go over the side, freefall and then pull their ripchord. :cool:

[Dozer_EAF19]

I've been playing Half-Life 2 recently and really appreciate the '100% first person view' theme - you only get to see your face on the cover of the box! So I'd like to see a completely first-person bale-out sequence. But this could be made into an option quite easily, to select third- or first-person view, I think.

I think: have a completely seperate command for "Tell crew to bale out".
But every crewman (AI or human) should make their own decision to bale out. The AI shouldn't bale when the aircraft is too low for them to survive, for example. And they should bale out on their own initiative in some circumstances.

I don't know if it's more realistic to use multiple keypresses or one keypress to trigger your own bale-out. Yes in real life you need to open canopy, disconnect oxygen and harness etc and then force yourself out of the aeroplane, but in real life (I assume) the pilot/crew is thoroughly drilled so that it's automatic. There should always be an option to use a single keypress to bale out. And if multiple keypresses are also available, there should be optional tool-tip type tips (there's a tongue-twister!) telling the player which key to press next.

[DuxCorvan]

I'd really like the AI not to suicide by jumping from 30 ft., and I'd like them also not to opt for a crash landing in a forest...

[Avimimus]

I'd really like the AI not to suicide by jumping from 30 ft., and I'd like them also not to opt for a crash landing in a forest...

Of course, there are historical examples of pilots doing just that... so it should happen some times (randomisation?)

As for 1st person sequences: the blackout combined with prerecorded audio used in Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942 works quite well, and would likely be a good model to use.

[DKoor]

...and on the other hand they happily descend, engine dead, towards a nearest forest:grin:.

[leitmotiv]

I am not a speed typist. I "hunt and peck." When you consider how fast a human being can do things in a crisis (I once fell asleep behind the wheel of a car while driving on a freeway late at night---I was waked by the bumping of the tires on the dirt edge of the road, I saw water dead ahead [the car was speeding towards a stream], without even thinking I spun the wheel to the left, the car flew off the dirt right before it would have zoomed over the stream and blown up hitting the opposite bank), I think reducing them to key procedure is ridiculous. Some things can't be simulated without full integration of the human being into the sim. I'd wager a person whose fuel tank is belching flames right in front of him would bang has palm on the belt release, slam the hood release above him, tear out oxy tube and RT cable, and swing the airplane upside down to bail in less time than it would take for a person to read these words. Granted it would be fun to get snagged by an RT lead or get your boot stuck, or other such perfectly realistic contingencies, but honestly....

David Cronenberg anticipated full integration in his film "eXistenZ" (1999):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/

[proton45]

I am not a speed typist. I "hunt and peck." When you consider how fast a human being can do things in a crisis (I once fell asleep behind the wheel of a car while driving on a freeway late at night---I was waked by the bumping of the tires on the dirt edge of the road, I saw water dead ahead [the car was speeding towards a stream], without even thinking I spun the wheel to the left, the car flew off the dirt right before it would have zoomed over the stream and blown up hitting the opposite bank), I think reducing them to key procedure is ridiculous. Some things can't be simulated without full integration of the human being into the sim. I'd wager a person whose fuel tank is belching flames right in front of him would bang has palm on the belt release, slam the hood release above him, tear out oxy tube and RT cable, and swing the airplane upside down to bail in less time than it would take for a person to read these words. Granted it would be fun to get snagged by an RT lead or get your boot stuck, or other such perfectly realistic contingencies, but honestly....

David Cronenberg anticipated full integration in his film "eXistenZ" (1999):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120907/


Ya, the Cronenberg movie brings the idea of immersion to a whole new level (LOL)...

And for the most part I don't really care how the bail-out procedure is handled... If their going to include the details of "bailing-out" into the game I'm more interested in what happens to the body before & after bailing out...stuff like: inertia making it impossible to jump-out of a spinning aeroplane (or maybe blacking-out), or the pilot getting hit by his own tail after jumping, or the pilot getting splattered by a fighter following too closely behind... but I don't really care about how many buttons I have to push... its all about surviving the flight to collect my points.