Friday Official Update, June 22, 2012

[Allons!]

Yikes. Anyone else getting nervous?

Jugding from the way they planned CoD the plans will fail anyway but it might be advisable to deactivate any auto-update function :grin: :grin:

[Stirwenn]

Some of simmers are also gamers console... an epic fail in computer world may not engage to trust in console world at minima. And i'd would not promote any 1C products to friends.

[Volksieg]

It's the good advice, thanks, but you don't know about our inner situation and I can't say about it also. We will make that we can.

Well.... that's 'reassuring'. Why do I get a sense of impending doom?


Will see… but the good all times are gone for good. Let see what the new ones bring.
Majo

I think I can guess what the new ones will bring. Mediocrity, all flash and no substance, dumbed down slop......

I really hoped flight simulators would remain one of the few things on this planet where an intelligent person could still enjoy themselves without having to make constant reparations to those "less able". :D I see a future of arcadey flight models, meaningless "achievements"..... give it a couple of years and we'll have end of mission bosses.

Don't get me wrong... I enjoy an arcade game as much as the last person... I even watch the occasional soap opera for cheap laughs.... but, in the same way that I can sit on the loo and laugh at the ridiculous stories in a women's magazine, I don't expect to read about that rubbish when I pick up a book on Nietzsche.

Specialist hobbies are being killed off for a fast buck.

At least we still have 1946, I suppose.....

Elitist? Yep! And proud of it! :D

Is it the devs fault? not really..... it's society's fault.

[MD_Titus]

It is because after this next patch Cliffs of Dover will be abandoned. The devs, what are Russian, are now using the Cliffs of Dover sales to do the sim they really wanted to do, which is Battle for Moscow. The reason why they even are patching is just to keep some sales of Cliffs of Dover going, to make the money needed for BfM which is still years away.

Is not that hard to understand. Russian devs, Russian theatre, Russian planes.

PS

i get the impression that people still think battle for moscow and cliffs of dover will be two separate games.

really?

[Volksieg]

i get the impression that people still think battle for moscow and cliffs of dover will be two separate games.

really?

Are you not picking up anything slightly worrying from what B6 said? lol

(DISCLAIMER: This isn't really even speculation, by the way, just stating my feelings which are, in no way, official statements about 1C, nor should they be taken as such. That said, vague statements about internal situations and plans for CloD can only really lead to wild speculation on the part of the customer. lol)

I'm not even 100% sure there will be a Battle For Moscow... at least as the add on for Cliffs of Dover, following the IL2 Sturmovik model.

I have a hat, a knife and fork and salt, pepper & ketchup at the ready.... and I have to say I really hope I get to chow down on it soon. :D

[ATAG_Dutch]

I do wish you chaps would stop referring to 'The Battle of Moscow'.

Some months ago B6 said this was the wrong thing to call the sequel (sorry, can't be bothered finding the link).

Since then it's been referred to as 'The Sequel'. There have been loads of clues in the screenshots. The first ones showed great expanses of water, like you'd find in the Gulf of Finland or lake Ladoga. This week's screenies show a big river and marshland like you'd find on the banks of the Volga at it's southern end, so have a root around in Google Earth and take some guesses. ;)

It might be more interesting to speculate on this than the future of 'Cliffs'. :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Black Six has quite clearly stated on numerous occasions that the release of any new sim will depend on getting the game engine running with COD correctly.

If fixing this part of the sim is so important, it is my opinion that they are doing everything possible to do it and secure the long term viability of the series.

Personally I am looking forward to a change in the format of the sim. Black Six's cryptic statements and hints have got me intrigued.

As a long term flight simmer (I flew my first sim on an Apple][+ ) I did not buy Cliffs of Dover as a one off game. I bought it as the first of a new series of flight sims and I am willing to put up with reasonable amount of growing pains.

The facts are that the sim we are playing today is a significantly improvement from the one that was released. And as WWII combat flight sims go it is a significant improvement from the original IL2 series or any other sim in the genre. The only thing it is lacking is content - Maps planes and other objects.

Black Six, please pass on our best wishes to the rest of the development team. I and many others are waiting on the edge of our seats to see what you have in store for us.

Thanks

[Icebear]

It's the good advice, thanks, but you don't know about our inner situation and I can't say about it also. We will make that we can.

With all respect B6, IMO you should better not spread that kind of statements as they may lead to speculations. Reading between those lines.....

[ATAG_Dutch]

For instance, compare these two shots..................

[Skoshi Tiger]

For instance, compare these two shots..................

Cool! Where is it???

Very neat bit of google earthing!

[ATAG_Dutch]

:grin::grin::grin:

Not going to tell you!! Ner-ner-ni-ner-ner!! :grin:

But it's quite a way south of Moscow.........

[Skoshi Tiger]

:grin::grin::grin:

Not going to tell you!! Ner-ner-ni-ner-ner!! :grin:

But it's quite a way south of Moscow.........

OK! be like that!

Hmmm! Near Samara?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Try 3000ft, looking south down the Volga, over the centre of the city of.......Volgograd. :grin:

Which used to be called.......................:confused:

[Skoshi Tiger]

Try 3000ft, looking south down the Volga, over the centre of the city of.......Volgograd. :grin:

Which used to be called.......................:confused:

Hmmm! That would tie in with the operational testing of the LA-5 in September 42'. I could live with that! :)

[ATAG_Dutch]

Yup. Imagine a 'combined ops' sim at this location!

Of course, there may be multiple maps in the sequel, maybe Leningrad, Stalingrad and Moscow........

Beginning to warm to this idea. ;)

[zapatista]

Battle of Kursk ?

there is no indication from 1c that any ground vehicles will be realistic enough to create a worth while tank sim anytime soon

nice idea for about 5 yrs down the road maybe :)

[SiThSpAwN]

Battle of Kursk ?

there is no indication from 1c that any ground vehicles will be realistic enough to create a worth while tank sim anytime soon

nice idea for about 5 yrs down the road maybe :)

Their goal may not be a tank sim, but something like DCS Combined Arms where vehicles arent hardcore simmed but are controllable enough to have a more dynamic battlefield. The focus of any IL2 should be the quality of the aircraft and their FM, the addition of vehicles while cool, should only be as added value to the aircraft and battlefield...

Of course this is only guessing...

[ATAG_Colander]

It's the good advice, thanks, but you don't know about our inner situation and I can't say about it also. We will make that we can.

@BlackSix
I think you are as frustrated about this situation as all of us are.
I'm sorry you have to deal with your own frustration and at the same time communicate with us, frustrated customers.

Let's hope it all improves soon for all.

[ATAG_Snapper]

@BlackSix
I think you are as frustrated about this situation as all of us are.
I'm sorry you have to deal with your own frustration and at the same time communicate with us, frustrated customers.

Let's hope it all improves soon for all.

+1

My thoughts exactly. We tend to shoot the messenger, when he is simply being loyal to his company as a professional should be. BlackSix's English is far better than my Russian, he does an excellent job under the circumstances and shows admirable restraint in his communications with us. Here's hoping the upcoming patch remedies some immediate concerns and paves the way to further progress -- and makes HIS job much more satisfying!

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

+1

My thoughts exactly. We tend to shoot the messenger, when he is simply being loyal to his company as a professional should be. BlackSix's English is far better than my Russian, he does an excellent job under the circumstances and shows admirable restraint in his communications with us. Here's hoping the upcoming patch remedies some immediate concerns and paves the way to further progress -- and makes HIS job much more satisfying!

Totally agree Snapper,BlackSix is caught between a rock and a hard place,however his company is in my personal opinion in the process of commiting corporate suicide with any sequel that they think will be successful if they don't sort out this mess with COD asap.

We on this forum may only be a very small snapshot of what is happening within the world of 1C,but you only had to read those posts on Friday and the subsequent days after to realise the big picture that is slowly closing in on this company.

Time is running out,people's patience is running thin,draw your own conclusions,the sad fact is I don't think they realise the brevity of the situation.They could have at the very least on Friday released some sort of patch to address the appalling flight models that exist within the RAF aircraft.

The ball is in their hands,and I hope they are successful in turning things around for us but also for them.

[ATAG_Dutch]

They could have at the very least on Friday released some sort of patch to address the appalling flight models that exist within the RAF aircraft.

I hear you meaks and agree completely, however to address the FMs in the current Beta patch, all the community has to do is revert to using the last official release. Then at least we'd have the old Spit IIa (limited) and the old Rotol Hurri back.

Not to mention the old Blenheim.

I've already done this, but it means flying offline only.

It's the community that's preventing this reversion happening for online play, not the developers. ;)

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Agreed Dutch 100%,we'd also get back our clouds and other eye candy too,good call,but the devs could meet us half way too by sorting this mess out too.

[Chivas]

At the moment I doubt the devs have a solid game plan. The original plan of a series of theaters, and hinting of a combined forces sim has been put in doubt as the game engine isn't working as planned yet. EVERYTHING depends on fixing the game engine, making it playable and stable, until then they can only be cryptic. When they have the game engine working as well as they can make it, then and only then can they're plans be more definitive. Either shut down the development, an MMO, a series of sequels, a combined forces sim, or any combination depending on the capability of the new game engine. All we can do is wait, stomping our feet won't change a d^mn thing.

[SIDWULF]

Awesome, now this is what im talking about!

Show us the FW-190 and i'll do a backflip.

[hiro]

I was reading the first set of posts and man, its 2012 the worlds supposed to end! Finally just skipped to the middle and sped read / skimmed to here




Nah, not really. Play MMO's for a few years, and
you'll learn to deal with any eventuality that might arise :P

LOL so true

I was a duke nuke em fan. The original DUke 3D was pretty cool; especially the starship troopers mod.

And also dark forces rounded out the doom / doom 2 fun of my start at PC gaming.

So patience was tested for the duke sequel and when it finally came out and was a CnB (crash n . . .)

I realized putting faith in future games was unreal. I never thought the final fantasy 6 (and ff IX) would be the last ones I'd like . . . the new ones just don't do justice.

So I am ready to let Il-2 1946 go and all its expectations and for this game as well.


But look at the devs, they are still going on, and like many posters have said, the game engine needs fixed. And I agree with that.

And once the game engine is fixed and stable, the possibilities go out the window and into (well they're not going to make a space sim lol) . . .


I mean if DCS engine can make a p-51 have a p-51 feel, well there's hope for this game.

The Devs and B6 are working at it. I'm sorry the devs and B6 have to deal with alot of the junk people are saying about them.


If you guys (haters / complainers) don't like the game return it and get your money back, most stores have a 30 day return policy (here in US).

And if you're past the 30 days, then its on you. If you say, 'I wanted to keep it for the patch' you knew how it would go down; there's a chance a magic bullet patch would be out in 2 weeks and its 1946 all over again.

Or the patch is going to be knock down, drag out, all out fight that takes years . . . (because some thing foundational is flawed in the code . . .).

Don't complain about the pics being posted, shoot, there are lots more at stake in the world than this.

Don't be a nag. Kudos to those guys and gals playing the game and sending the crash reports. They're helping.


---

The ROF comparison is funny too. ROF is working fine but at release it was shoddy and all the 1946 people were all laughing. But now its reversed with ROF being strong and IL series the weaksauce. Kudos to ROF crew for setting a good example. I personally thought IL-2 series would never go down the ROF starting route, but I guess things change.

But at least both games are being worked on.


-------

for all the people moaning about ac fm's and colors . . . those details need to wait until the game engine is fixed.

Once the engine is working, then the details outside can be remedied.

------

I think all those people saying they will not buy the sequel will change their tune once the game's fixed.

------


once again thanks for the updates, at least we have those now.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Some of B6's last posts seem pretty full of doom and gloom. I hope their priorities still lie in fixing this sim.

It's been ages since Luthier gave any sort of update. It would be nice to have some sort of update without all the cryptic data we've seen of late.

[Trumper]

I can't be bothered to read these threads anymore,i am NOT INTERESTED IN THE RUSSIAN FRONT,i just want the little old BoB.

[MegOhm]

Meanwhile Il2 1946 HSFX 6.0 has been released...

[TonyD]

Thanks for the update, B6.

Some of B6's last posts seem pretty full of doom and gloom. I hope their priorities still lie in fixing this sim.

It's been ages since Luthier gave any sort of update. It would be nice to have some sort of update without all the cryptic data we've seen of late.

Yes, wouldn’t that be great! But perhaps, as Chivas has suggested, a lot of the future plans are entirely dependent on the state of the Clod ‘engine’ once (if?) it’s fixed -which seems fairly logical. Without a suitable game engine, any future plans are rather moot.

[Feathered_IV]

Try 3000ft, looking south down the Volga, over the centre of the city of.......Volgograd. :grin:

Which used to be called.......................:confused:

That would be something Ive wanted to see for a long time. A detailed Stalingrad map. If that's what it is, let's hope they have their objects by then, so that not just high end users can fly over it.

[Allons!]

For instance, compare these two shots..................

Makes me think of Henschel Hs129 suddenly ?

[kendo65]

That would be something Ive wanted to see for a long time. A detailed Stalingrad map. If that's what it is, let's hope they have their objects by then, so that not just high end users can fly over it.

To be honest I don't think that Stalingrad is really a very good choice of battle for what is primarily still a flight-sim. That battle was a real slug-fest: advances measured in yards, mainly infantry combat with both sides close together and often indistinguishable; battles inside factories, rubbled buildings. There won't be much to see from the air. (and if the current engine can't even generate a London bus to bring even a semblance of life to a very sterile London, how are they going to make piles of rubble in Stalingrad look interesting?)

Great choice for something like Red Orchestra but not a flight-sim. Kursk would be a much better idea, though that may be pushing the time-line for the first Eastern Front instalment too far.

---- ---- ----

On B6's latest posts, there does seem to be an increasing air of gloom underneath it all. Can be easy to read too much into the often cryptic statements but it is about time that someone from this company got a grip and realised that they don't need any more panic caused by poor or misleading communication.

It's the good advice, thanks, but you don't know about our inner situation and I can't say about it also. We will make that we can.

So when is the BIG announcement going to come? Still slated for June or delayed?

The story has changed so completely in the last months, first with the confirmed shift of focus from COD to BOM, then the MMO announcement which cast a big question mark over previously stated plans.

I think we need and deserve some clarification and comment on all this.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Ken me old mate. The same was true of old IL2. But there was a Stalingrad Scenario and a Leningrad Scenario.

But don't get me wrong, there's no-one here who wants a decent Battle of Britain sim more than me. But these other theatres are what we all cut our teeth on. Nothing's changed there.:)

P.S. It's not the bloody BoM!!! I just spent hours of my day demonstrating this!!

[kendo65]

:)

Yeah, I know there's a Stalingrad map in old il-2. But the city itself was a tiny part. My main point was about people expecting Red Orchestra in a flight-sim complete with intense battles going on in the city streets. Don't think it'll happen that way - and even if it does you won't see it from 3000ft up in a Ju88. You're more likely to get tasked to strafe a supply convoy 5 miles behind the lines.

And feel free to mentally substitute BOM with 'sequel' or whatever floats your boat. ;)
(though somebody complained about 'sequel' a few months back as well...)

Good matching of the google earth shot to the screenie though :shock:

[ATAG_Dutch]

:)Good matching of the google earth shot to the screenie though :shock:

Well thanks Kendo me ole mucker! I thought so, too! :grin:

[Sternjaeger II]

you know, I miss the days when Oleg was still at the wheel, at least he wasn't a coward and came to talk with the customers, His Highness Luthier is either too snob (or more probably too embarrassed?) to show his face around here anymore. He speaks a perfect English yet he needs someone else to give the (bad) news about the sim that obviously will never be completed.

We're one year after release now and we still don't have a finished product, well done for having defrauded thousands of customers Maddox Games!!

If there's one thing that I've learned since the modders' community flourished is that there was still so much that could be squeezed out of IL-2, yet the poor decisions of the devs made for a badly managed choice of starting a project that was surely great on paper, but lacked something that you simply can't buy: talent and modesty (and there's SO much of it out there! Have you tried the IL-2 1946 Hs129 or the Do217?! Not to mention all the work for the jet era... These folks shell out gems FOR FREE!).

You ruined the experience for a lot of people, I hope you realise that. Uh and for the record, most of us don't care for your Battle of Moscow, you're AGAIN doing the mistake of releasing something that YOU like, but that doesn't take into account the taste of your CUSTOMERS.

[ATAG_Dutch]

you know, I miss the days when Oleg was still at the wheel

We don't often agree Stern, but Amen.


Battle of Moscow

It's not the bloody Battle of Moscow!!! :evil::grin:

[David Hayward]

You ruined the experience for a lot of people, I hope you realise that. Uh and for the record, most of us don't care for your Battle of Moscow, you're AGAIN doing the mistake of releasing something that YOU like, but that doesn't take into account the taste of your CUSTOMERS.

Aren't most of their CUSTOMERS Russian?

[Sternjaeger II]

We don't often agree Stern, but Amen.

you see? Miracles DO happen! ;)


It's not the bloody Battle of Moscow!!! :evil::grin:

well last time I checked I didn't see any La5 in the MTO or PTO, so the ring tightens to that part of the world that has very dull landscapes and aeroplanes that nobody but a certain (read Russian) customer base gives a rat's bottom about..

[ATAG_Dutch]

Oh great. Here come the guys who ruin decent debate. Smashin, eh?

[ATAG_Dutch]

you see? Miracles DO happen! ;)



well last time I checked I didn't see any La5 in the MTO or PTO, so the ring tightens to that part of the world that has very dull landscapes and aeroplanes that nobody but a certain (read Russian) customer base gives a rat's bottom about..

Look at the bottom of page 26. No you won't see an attractive girl, but you will see something which is quite definately not Moscow.

[Sternjaeger II]

Aren't most of their CUSTOMERS Russian?

No idea, and to be honest it's a bit of a nonsense strategy, since the rest of the world is kind of a bigger market.. but hey, what do we know about marketing for simulators? They're doing such a spiffing job as it is, innit? ;)

[Sternjaeger II]

Look at the bottom of page 26. No you won't see an attractive girl, but you will see something which is quite definately not Moscow.

still too much eastern-looking for my taste ;)

[ATAG_Dutch]

Where would you prefer? In a game series entitled 'IL2 Sturmovik'?

[JTDawg]

Where would you prefer? In a game series entitled 'IL2 Sturmovik'? LMAO Today i learned it's not bloody BOM an your answer was priceless ROFLMAO Thats funny Dutch gets a 9.9 out of a possible 10 ;)

[ATAG_Dutch]

Thanks JT! Always good to know you're around. :grin:

[Chivas]

No idea, and to be honest it's a bit of a nonsense strategy, since the rest of the world is kind of a bigger market.. but hey, what do we know about marketing for simulators? They're doing such a spiffing job as it is, innit? ;)

There probably won't be an Eastern front theater released unless the game engine is fixed. If the game engine is fixed you will also have a much better COD. If the game engine is fixed, it will make room for the addition of clouds, and improvement to stability, FPS, AI, Commands, FM, DM, terrain, etc that can be applied to COD and any other theater. If they are unable to fix the game engine the development will be shut down by its investors.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Thanks for cheering us all up Chivas!

Everyone on here was absolutely ecstatic until you said that. ;)

[ATAG_Bliss]

Well that's the big plus with the clod engine. It does have to be fixed to make any subsequent game for it. The only other option is starting completely from scratch, but I doubt that will happen.

I'm just hoping for some real clarity. Or maybe they're just tired of hearing all the moaning are gonna wait to it's where they want it to release anything to us anymore. As long as the "work continues" I'll wait. I just don't want to see a post saying it's been abandoned.

[He111]

There probably won't be an Eastern front theater released unless the game engine is fixed. If the game engine is fixed you will also have a much better COD. If the game engine is fixed, it will make room for the addition of clouds, and improvement to stability, FPS, AI, Commands, FM, DM, terrain, etc that can be applied to COD and any other theater. If they are unable to fix the game engine the development will be shut down by its investors.

That makes on ecomonic sense, the game basically works and ATM is the best BOB emulator around. Yes there are bugs that need fixing but any new engine will have teething troubles, this is well know by all.

I don't understand the Russian psychology of "looking inwards", i always thought there's be more sales in the west ? Does BfM disprove that? Maybe poor Clod sales has forced them to look inwards? But if the game had been released later and more stable, maybe they would have got more sales in the west ?

If they're thinking about reducing aero quality and content to add land based warfare, I won't be in that .. if i want to fight Kursk, I'll go world of tanks, thank you.

BTW, if the INVESTORS are concerned about costs, open the game up to modders (users). I'm sure most bugs will be fixed pronto - at no cost, and more features will be added - at no cost .. Although Version control might be a nightmare! LOL! :)
.

[David198502]

Well that's the big plus with the clod engine. It does have to be fixed to make any subsequent game for it. The only other option is starting completely from scratch, but I doubt that will happen.

I'm just hoping for some real clarity. Or maybe they're just tired of hearing all the moaning are gonna wait to it's where they want it to release anything to us anymore. As long as the "work continues" I'll wait. I just don't want to see a post saying it's been abandoned.

considering the state of the game, the pace they released patches, the progress the game made since release, and BlackSix's last few posts, there is a strong possibility that exactly that will happen...

[kristorf]

I can't be bothered to read these threads anymore,i am NOT INTERESTED IN THE RUSSIAN FRONT,i just want the little old BoB.

Amen,

Me thinks thats what the majority would like at this time, the product paid for.
BoM is all pie in the sky at the moment, with a few mediocre screenshots and more promises, nothing else.

[Viking]

Im looking forward to BoM and the patch. Never had much of interest in the BoB scenario.

Viking

[Icebear]

I'm looking forward to the Euro championship final, my summer holidays and the christmas season as these things are closer and much more realistic.. ;)

[Sternjaeger II]

Where would you prefer? In a game series entitled 'IL2 Sturmovik'?

Very funny, you know it became a brand...
Anyway somewhere like the MTO, ETO, even the bloody SCW, but enough of those endless bright green prairie scenarios.. They could also concentrate on the last stages of the Russian offensive and come a bit more west..

The peak of sales and interest was with Pacific Fighters if memory serves, so why not following the original road map laid down by the good ol' Oleg years ago, who said "it's likely that after the new BoB sim is released we will concentrate on the MTO"..

Just give us Oleg back please, at least he cared about his customers.

[Manuc]

Great update and fine screenshots. Keep up the good work to make CoD better and better.

[kendo65]

There probably won't be an Eastern front theater released unless the game engine is fixed. If the game engine is fixed you will also have a much better COD. If the game engine is fixed, it will make room for the addition of clouds, and improvement to stability, FPS, AI, Commands, FM, DM, terrain, etc that can be applied to COD and any other theater. If they are unable to fix the game engine the development will be shut down by its investors.

Thanks for cheering us all up Chivas!

Everyone on here was absolutely ecstatic until you said that. ;)

Agreed, in a complete and surprising break from type Chivas wins this week's 'Wet blanket' award. ;) Come on Chivas - that kind of thing is NOT what we pay you for around here.

I was actually quite excited to come and post on this too, because I changed my mind on the Stalingrad map. My initial reservations still in place, I can see that a Stalingrad scenario could be very atmospheric and exciting - palls of black smoke rise from the shattered city and shroud the Volga as your flight of Stukas peels off to commence their attack on the stubborn resisters in the Tractor factory.

I'm excited.... I'll buy it...reminds me of how excited I felt about COD - diving into huge phalanxes of German bombers over London; scrambling from Manston as 109s skim the tree-tops, ......oh, hang on, hmmmm :confused::rolleyes: .... a little imagination can be a dangerous thing in flight-sim land. ;)

[Allons!]

I'm looking forward to the Euro championship final,

Yep, finally the Mussolini guys proved to be something good for at war. :grin: Italians beat british troops in ukrainian territory. Quite a scenario hihi

[David Hayward]

No idea, and to be honest it's a bit of a nonsense strategy, since the rest of the world is kind of a bigger market.. but hey, what do we know about marketing for simulators? They're doing such a spiffing job as it is, innit? ;)

I'm very much looking forward to your WW2 flight sim. It will be interesting to see how you market it. When is the scheduled release date?

[catito14]

Why BlackSix "participates" more and gives more info in the sukhoi.ru forum than here, the 1C official forums??? (Please, don´t say "language barrier")

[Megahurt]

I really dont understand the absence of warships. Torpedo bombing warships (bismarck) with swordfish bi planes would be awesome and with England having the largest navy in the world under attack by the germans over the channel its kind of a rediculous oversight.

IL2 original had this andit was fantastic.

[SiThSpAwN]

Why BlackSix "participates" more and gives more info in the sukhoi.ru forum than here, the 1C official forums??? (Please, don´t say "language barrier")

Thats not what you want to hear, but you probably answered your own question, he said before his English is very poor, and even gets help with translation from someone else for the Friday updates. If he gets help for those updates it probably means random chatter is harder to deal with, or perhaps we just ask the wrong questions...

I am going to lean on it being the language barrier.... I bet nobody wishes they could communicate better than B6 himself... he is in a tough spot. Of course I am in no way trying to speak for him, this is just my humble opinion :)

[Sternjaeger II]

I'm very much looking forward to your WW2 flight sim. It will be interesting to see how you market it. When is the scheduled release date?

I'll let you know ASAP and probably use you as PR, you're SO good at HR man, you should make a job out of it ;)

[Sternjaeger II]

Thats not what you want to hear, but you probably answered your own question, he said before his English is very poor, and even gets help with translation from someone else for the Friday updates. If he gets help for those updates it probably means random chatter is harder to deal with, or perhaps we just ask the wrong questions...

I am going to lean on it being the language barrier.... I bet nobody wishes they could communicate better than B6 himself... he is in a tough spot. Of course I am in no way trying to speak for him, this is just my humble opinion :)

Luthier speaks a perfect English, since he lived and worked in the US.. ;)

[csThor]

Why BlackSix "participates" more and gives more info in the sukhoi.ru forum than here, the 1C official forums??? (Please, don´t say "language barrier")

Well, I guess that's because he's from the community over there. It's his personal comfort zone ... Not to mention that he was initially hired to act as liaison to the community over there. Posting in this board here wasn't mentioned in his job description, it simply "happened".

[David Hayward]

I'll let you know ASAP and probably use you as PR, you're SO good at HR man, you should make a job out of it ;)

That's awesome! Please set up a website so I can start posting my pre-whining. Thanks!

Sorry I have to turn down the job offer, but I fear starvation will come quickly to your employees.

[BlackSix]

Well, I guess that's because he's from the community over there. It's his personal comfort zone ... Not to mention that he was initially hired to act as liaison to the community over there. Posting in this board here wasn't mentioned in his job description, it simply "happened".

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

[Continu0]

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

I can assure you, you are making good progress!

And by the way, you have a hard job as maybe 50% of the users here are not naitive speakers and don´t write a proper english as well (like me for example)...

[No1 Cheese]

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

B6 you have an awful job trying to keep this lot happy(and me)PLEASE dont take none of this to heart.Thing is we bought the game to fly in The Battle of Britain,above Dover/Calais etc etc hopeing more than anything that things like the Whirlwind/Hampden/Lysander would eventually get an important part in the game.All we get is LA this etc and a few screen shots that to tell you the truth just dont cut it anymore!!!

Sorry

I have no interest in a sequel but like a mug if it eventually works ill prob get it,unlike 30+ of my Squad mates.

Cheese
PS hope this responce doesnt get deleted like 3 of my others!!!!

[6S.Manu]

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

You're doing a great job B6; thanks again for the updates. ;)

[JG52Krupi]

You're doing a great job B6; thanks again for the updates. ;)

Ageed! Keep it up man, your doing a fantastic job.

[Stealth_Eagle]

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

Oh well, I think you are learning quite well and maybe once a week you can try to come over here and have discussions with it (Maybe like FDR's Fireside chats that he did during WW2 perhaps :cool:?). Then we can learn you more personally and we'll try to help you as much as we can. For most of us, our bark is worse than our bite (Wait a minute, who actually "bites" people around here?). Very best wishes to you BlackSix and thanks for doing this since not too many people would be able to just jump into a new language so quickly (Spanish has been the only class that I have failed in school so far, all my other grades are top notch so I can see your difficulty in learning something new.).

[rOEN911]

What is, being told absolutally nothing, again??

From people I speak to the majority don't care about any add-on as most now won't touch it, all we ask is that what we have paid for is made workable.

i agree !!

[catito14]

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

Well ... the Fridays Updates are terribles too, but instead of the grammar, the problem are the contents :rolleyes: ... joking joking ...

Blacksix, like many of the guys said, do not take any of our "complaints" personally..... You have a very hard work, and you are doing it stoically, so my hat´s off to you.

Regards

[mazex]

Yes - relax and take your time with the patch... I'm on vacation in Italy for two weeks anyway (be sure) :)

[SiThSpAwN]

Yes - relax and take your time with the patch... I'm on vacation in Italy for two weeks anyway (be sure) :)

But by no means do you have to wait for mazex to get back if it is ready before that :D

[Ze-Jamz]

But by no means do you have to wait for mazex to get back if it is ready before that :D

Agreed

[6S.Manu]

I'm on vacation in Italy for two weeks anyway (be sure) :)

Where? :-)

[Catseye]

Well ... the Fridays Updates are terribles too, but instead of the grammar, the problem are the contents :rolleyes: ... joking joking ...

snip . . . .
Regards

No need to joke here as THAT is the truth! The problem is the contents not the messenger or the grammar.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Agree with you Catseye. Maybe this Friday we can get some sort of concrete information.

I thought there was supposed to be an announcement on the sequel this month as well. I guess that's changed?

[mazex]

Where? :-)

In the middle of Tuscany - a small countryside hotel in the hills near Montaione (some 30km SW of Firenze)... Any advice what to see/do? Venice is not that close so not your backyard directly ;) PM if you have advice! Been looking for some military/aviation museums to mix with all the culture and wine yard visits but no luck yet... Have rental car so some distance is OK!

[zapatista]

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

black6,

your posts here are much appreciated, and it is good to have somebody communicate with us (even if you are not always allowed to say all you know)

if you see much frustration on this forum, please understand none of this is directed towards you personally, you are a great help here :)

[BlackSix]

Oh well, I think you are learning quite well and maybe once a week you can try to come over here and have discussions with it (Maybe like FDR's Fireside chats that he did during WW2 perhaps :cool:?). Then we can learn you more personally and we'll try to help you as much as we can. For most of us, our bark is worse than our bite (Wait a minute, who actually "bites" people around here?). Very best wishes to you BlackSix and thanks for doing this since not too many people would be able to just jump into a new language so quickly (Spanish has been the only class that I have failed in school so far, all my other grades are top notch so I can see your difficulty in learning something new.).

Thanks) My main problem is no free time for learning. If I'll find more time all will be good)

black6,

your posts here are much appreciated, and it is good to have somebody communicate with us (even if you are not always allowed to say all you know)

if you see much frustration on this forum, please understand none of this is directed towards you personally, you are a great help here :)

I understand all)

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Yes,we all appreciate your help B6,your doing a sterling job:grin:

[Majo]

I do not agree about the language barrier mentioned here.

For many of us English is not our mother language, and still we have to deal with it every day.
You learn rules in order not to put yourself into trouble using a foreign language:
- Think twice before you speak/write.
- Keep it simple. Clear ideas and short sentences.
- Be sincere.

Following these rules, from my experience, will able you to get through with your message above
90% of the time. The 10% left is usually resolved with plain data or images.

Now, please, consider the kind of communications 1C, CloD Management, Luthier, B6, whoever…
has chosen to use with/for the community.

IMHO the language is not the problem, the problem is the message.

Salutes Majo.

[No601_Merlin]

. . . but they are actively banning people that show them up, expecting us to accept this incomplete production, that we paid for a year ago that's still unusable in any way similar the to IL2 that we have loved for years.

I feel cheated and taken advantage of expecting me or anyone else to buy the next instalment.

You lot are clueless when it comes to lifetime customer value.

Best you could do is sell the right to 777 who know to cultivate a regular income stream and continue to develop what has now become an exceptional product 'Rise of Flight'

Ban away, and if anyone disagrees you have got the game you deserve.

[Fjordmonkey]

. . . but they are actively banning people that show them up, expecting us to accept this incomplete production, that we paid for a year ago that's still unusable in any way similar the to IL2 that we have loved for years.

I feel cheated and taken advantage of expecting me or anyone else to buy the next instalment.

You lot are clueless when it comes to lifetime customer value.

Best you could do is sell the right to 777 who know to cultivate a regular income stream and continue to develop what has now become an exceptional product 'Rise of Flight'

Ban away, and if anyone disagrees you have got the game you deserve.

Nobody is getting banned for voicing their opinion, but people ARE getting banned because of HOW they voice their opinion. There's a difference there that few people seem to realize.

If you stay constructive (i.e. don't go balls-out with cursing, insulting the devs/other posters and generally being a tosspot), then you won't get banned. Staying constructive even when giving negative feedback is, it seems, a lost and/or arcane art that few people seem to grasp these days.

[Volksieg]

Nobody is getting banned for voicing their opinion, but people ARE getting banned because of HOW they voice their opinion. There's a difference there that few people seem to realize.

If you stay constructive (i.e. don't go balls-out with cursing, insulting the devs/other posters and generally being a tosspot), then you won't get banned. Staying constructive even when giving negative feedback is, it seems, a lost and/or arcane art that few people seem to grasp these days.

This is totally true. In many ways I have had an awful lot of fun with CloD but, by the same token, I'm not happy about the state it is in... I'm not happy about CTDs ruining any attempt to play the game as it as, supposedly, meant to be... I'm not happy about a lot of things with CloD or how it has been handled. I've stated this many, many times! Not one infraction. Nada. Nothing. No threat of banning, no "ticking off" from a moderator... niet!

As Fjordmonkey states: Noone gets banned for simply stating their annoyance. It is HOW that annoyance is expressed.

[FS~Phat]

I do not agree about the language barrier mentioned here.

For many of us English is not our mother language, and still we have to deal with it every day.
You learn rules in order not to put yourself into trouble using a foreign language:
- Think twice before you speak/write.
- Keep it simple. Clear ideas and short sentences.
- Be sincere.

Following these rules, from my experience, will able you to get through with your message above
90% of the time. The 10% left is usually resolved with plain data or images.

Now, please, consider the kind of communications 1C, CloD Management, Luthier, B6, whoever…
has chosen to use with/for the community.

IMHO the language is not the problem, the problem is the message.

Salutes Majo.

Im sorry but you couldnt be more wrong if you tried.
Language and cultural differences are what most of the communication issues are about. Do you think they want the game to fail?? Come on have some common sense.

I just posted this in another thread in relation to the subject of Russian Language and grammar translation to English and I think it's important enough to post here as it serves as a great example. I apologise for the double post but this is important. For those of you that have read it already just skip over it.

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

I believe what Blacksix was trying to say was.

Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

Which is perfectly reasonable. (confirmed by B6 below)

Yes, that's my problem. I don't see any difference between these two phrases. They are translated into Russian the same.
Thanks Phat.


Guys please understand B6 is still learning english and a direct russian translation would lack some of the small important words that we take for granted.
Such as "if" and the context of a sentence can be completely lost in translation.

You guys have used Google to translate before and you know it does the same thing, sometimes it looses context by omitting important words or changing the order of words which has an effect on the meaning. (changing the S-V-O order can have an effect on the meaning in english)

A new english speaker often has this problem.

English and Russian language structure is generally Subject-Verb-Object but Russian language is a lot more flexible with the order, especially in more complex sentence structures.

For example, the sentence "A cat caught a mouse" can be translated into Russian in the following ways: All would be understood by a Russian native speaker to mean the same thing.

1) Кошка поймала мышь.
2) Мышь поймала кошка.
3) Поймала кошка мышь.
4) Кошка мышь поймала.
5) Мышь кошка поймала.
6) Поймала мышь кошка.

However, if we translate those same sentences back to English without an understanding of english (as google has kindly done below) you can see the meaning is completely different.

1) The cat caught the mouse.
2) The mouse has caught the cat.
3) I caught a mouse the cat.
4) The cat caught the mouse.
5) The cat caught the mouse.
6) I caught a mouse the cat.

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

So in the end we need to give B6 some slack and understanding that not everything he is trying to say will be interpreted the way he has intended.
A lot of you are always looking for the bad angle instead of trying to understand the intent given the translation from Russian to English.

Thanks for the effort B6 we appreciate your efforts especially given English is a new language for you. You are getting much better though so dont let this lot get to you!!

Here's another quick lesson on Russian and why its translations are sometimes perceived as blunt, direct or rude. Russian language doesnt need all the extra padding we use in English.

Some people say that the Russian language can be hard to learn. This is not really true, learning Russian is no harder than learning other languages. The main difficulty for a lot of people is learning the new grammar structure. If you have learnt other languages before you will already be familiar with some of these grammar concepts, such as gender and cases.

In fact, there are many things that make Russian easier to learn than other languages. The key is to use these things to your advantage. Here are some things that make Russian easier.

1. Once you learn the alphabet, you can pronounce almost all words quite accurately. With Russian the pronunciation is normally quite clear from the written form of the word.

2. Russian does not use complicated sentence structures like English. You can normally say exactly what you want with just a few words. For example, in English to be polite we would say something like “can you please pass me the salt”, however in Russian they would say something simpler like “give salt please”. Speaking so directly may even feel unusual for an English speaker, however it is perfectly normal, just add the word ‘please’ to be polite. This makes it easy to say what you want in Russian, and it will probably be correct. Less words also makes listening to people easier, as you can just pick out the important words.

3. Russian uses the case system. Instead of having a strict sentence word order like in English, you just need to change the ends of the nouns. This makes Russian a very expressive language, because you can emphasise a point by changing the order of the words in a sentence. It also helps you understand what people are trying to say.

4. Russian does not use articles. (Like “a” and “the”)

5. Russian has fewer tenses than English. Russian does not bother with the difference between “I was running”, “I had been running”, etc.

Cheers,
Phat.

[No601_Merlin]

only governments accept products that do not reasonable satisfy the stated aims a year after purchase. If you sell a product that is known to still need a great deal of development, then its reasonable for people who having given them a whole year to get it right to complain about promoting a new product before the original one is finished.

No amount of cajoling or semi condescending rhetoric will change that Fjordmonkey.

I suspect their funding was cut off by the publishers and they just had to release as it was. Read my previous posts I was happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, you will see I have only just given up hope brought on by them banning a squad member for voicing a very similar reply.

[BH_woodstock]

@Blacksix,
will the Russian P40 be included in sequel??Any version of the p40 is my favorite plane.Can you show us a screen shot of that?

[Fjordmonkey]

only governments accept products that do not reasonable satisfy the stated aims a year after purchase. If you sell a product that is known to still need a great deal of development, then its reasonable for people who having given them a whole year to get it right to complain about promoting a new product before the original one is finished.

Reasonable, yes. But at the same coin, it's also reasonable to expect people to express their displeasure with the product in a manner befitting some semblance of adultness, i.e. not with some of the temper-tantrums people have been throwing around here. As others have stated, I'm also not happy about the product in it's current state. But that doesn't mean that I'll go out of my way to behave like a 4-year old denied of sweets.

No amount of cajoling or semi condescending rhetoric will change that Fjordmonkey.

If you think my responses cajoling or semi-condescending, Merlin, that's up to you. You're free to interpret my responses as you see fit, but that doesn't change the fact that people seem unable to not behave like children denied of sweets just because a software-product isn't up to the standard they'd like it to be.

I suspect their funding was cut off by the publishers and they just had to release as it was. Read my previous posts I was happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, you will see I have only just given up hope brought on by them banning a squad member for voicing a very similar reply.

Again, your squad-member was most likely banned because of HOW he let his displeasure be know, not because he did so. There's a subtle difference there, and it seems that as soon as people get on the 'net, they forget or overlook that.

[pstyle]

only governments accept products that do not reasonable satisfy the stated aims a year after purchase. If you sell a product that is known to still need a great deal of development, then its reasonable for people who having given them a whole year to get it right to complain about promoting a new product before the original one is finished.
.

This has been brought up before..... but, here goes again;

I wonder, has anyone actually tested whether or not the product meets the description, by trying to get a return? Most countries (at least in the EU) have consumer law that protects consumer against faulty product. As yet I'm not aware of anyone actually reporting a successful return of CloD. Is this because;
1. No-one really thinks it is faulty enough to succeed in a return,
2. People are actually happy to sit and wait for what they believe will be eventual fixes to the game
3. People are playing it happily enough in spite of the reported issues

I suspect (2) is the main reason. Folks do believe the messages from 1C/ MG, and are holding on for the fixes. How long will they wait before using their legal protections and requesting refund? Will they likely succeed if they ask for refund?

[banned]

I don't know what world you live in mate but you really need to get out from behind your comp. Bleating your definition of adult behaviour just makes you sound silly and naive. This 'acting like children not getting a thing is getting a bit old and, itself, childish.

[FS~Phat]

Stay on topic please gents, these posts are about to moved or deleted if they continue in this fashion.

[SiThSpAwN]

Stay on topic please gents, these posts are about to moved or deleted if they continue in this fashion.

Next update can we take the discussion thread a step farther?

As an example:

B6 posts an update, only questions concerning the update info are allowed (and of course B6's answers)

And then a separate discussion thread for all other discussion based on that?

Only reason I ask is, 1) the language barrier/communication issues and 2) the fact that alot of good info just seems to get lost in a s**t storm of garbage.

just a suggestion...

[JG52Krupi]

Next update can we take the discussion thread a step farther?

As an example:

B6 posts an update, only questions concerning the update info are allowed (and of course B6's answers)

And then a separate discussion thread for all other discussion based on that?

Only reason I ask is, 1) the language barrier/communication issues and 2) the fact that alot of good info just seems to get lost in a s**t storm of garbage.

just a suggestion...

+1

I know it's a lot of work for you mods but it will be very useful.

[JG52Krupi]

@Blacksix,
will the Russian P40 be included in sequel??Any version of the p40 is my favorite plane.Can you show us a screen shot of that?

Woot, come on all we have seen so far is Russian/Red aircraft it's about time we saw the 109F and 190A :D but I do hope we get the p40 ;)

[catito14]

The problem is that the info and the answers that B6 gives here are zero in comparison with his activity in sukhoi.ru ....

[JG52Krupi]

The problem is that the info and the answers that B6 gives here are zero in comparison with his activity in sukhoi.ru ....

It's only happened once and the reason why was explained by FS-Phat, a simple language barrier...

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Woot, come on all we have seen so far is Russian/Red aircraft it's about time we saw the 109F and 190A :D but I do hope we get the p40 ;)

:) yes indeed, blue content please!

The Ju88 variant was cool though!

[Ataros]

The problem is that the info and the answers that B6 gives here are zero in comparison with his activity in sukhoi.ru ....

B6 is a forum member for 11+ years there. Long before he joined 1C. He would be banned there if he does not provide more information :grin: Just kidding :)

[Rjel]

If it's only a matter of a language barrier, then surely there must be someone either at 1C, this forum or the Russian forum who has a better grasp of both Russian and English who could help with the update threads. No offense to B6, but why continue to struggle putting out update threads that are difficult to understand and subject to so much interpretation that it breeds more resentment with each passing week? It might eliminate some of the division here.

[Skoshi Tiger]

only governments accept products that do not reasonable satisfy the stated aims a year after purchase. If you sell a product that is known to still need a great deal of development, then its reasonable for people who having given them a whole year to get it right to complain about promoting a new product before the original one is finished.


Not true! All non-trivial Softwares are a complex beast that have problems and requires fixes, patches and updates.

Even Microsoft has been selling opperating systems and application software since 1975, knowning full well that every single one of their products require a 'great deal of development' and don't quite meet their aims.

In fact they have turned it into a marketing ploy and even stop supporting their older version of their software and force you to buy the newer flawed version just to get their support. And Flight sims just like office software are far from perfect. For the forseable future they will all be patched and updated and evolve. Either that or they will stagnate and die.

I think we are lucky that COD's developers are looking to the future and the long term viability of the series.

The patches don't come as much as I would like true. But at least they are still working on them. I've got boxes of Sim sitting in my shed that are not being supported.

Each and every one of the titles below were great sims or games. How many are still being supported by their developers?

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/Skoshi_Tiger/Olympus068.jpg

[SiThSpAwN]

If it's only a matter of a language barrier, then surely there must be someone either at 1C, this forum or the Russian forum who has a better grasp of both Russian and English who could help with the update threads. No offense to B6, but why continue to struggle putting out update threads that are difficult to understand and subject to so much interpretation that it breeds more resentment with each passing week? It might eliminate some of the division here.


I would imagine that everyone has now seen how we act here and they cant find anyone to take over dealing with us lol...

[Rjel]

I would imagine that everyone has now seen how we act here and they cant find anyone to take over dealing with us lol...

Maybe, but it's gotta start someplace, sometime. I don't think anyone can deny this forum is fractured badly. IF CoD is fixed and it's follow ons do make it to market, it would be in Ic's best interest to have a fan base that isn't ready to rip the others' throats out.

[28_Condor]

@Blacksix,
will the Russian P40 be included in sequel??Any version of the p40 is my favorite plane.Can you show us a screen shot of that?

+1

[BlackSix]

@Blacksix,
will the Russian P40 be included in sequel??Any version of the p40 is my favorite plane.Can you show us a screen shot of that?

No, these planes there were very few. Like the P-39. We are not able to make rare aircraft now. Not enough time and people.
Maybe we'll make Hurricane, but after the release.

And don't ask me about FW-190, please. I can't say.

[He111]

No, these planes there were very few. Like the P-39. We are not able to make rare aircraft now. Not enough time and people.
Maybe we'll make Hurricane, but after the release.

And don't ask me about FW-190, please. I can't say.

HOLY CRAPE! :shock: you guys do need help. Sounds like you have a staff of 4, 1 being the janitor. :grin: No wonder you guys are flat out. Modders could help alot I suspect? ..and they're free! :grin:

.

[Allons!]

Modders could help alot I suspect? ..and they're free! :grin:

Though partly banned in this forum :)

[Feathered_IV]

And don't ask me about FW-190, please. I can't say.

Thank you for the accidental update!

[JG52Krupi]

No, these planes there were very few. Like the P-39. We are not able to make rare aircraft now. Not enough time and people.
Maybe we'll make Hurricane, but after the release.

And don't ask me about FW-190, please. I can't say.

Okay thanks B6, but from a purely buisness/fiscal perspective surely having a p-39/p-40 would boost the sales of the game in America?

[klem]

No, these planes there were very few. Like the P-39. We are not able to make rare aircraft now. Not enough time and people.
Maybe we'll make Hurricane, but after the release.

And don't ask me about FW-190, please. I can't say.

It shouldn't take much to tweak the Hurricane MkI into MkIIb and MkIIc?

[BlackSix]

Okay thanks B6, but from a purely buisness/fiscal perspective surely having a p-39/p-40 would boost the sales of the game in America?

It shouldn't take much to tweak the Hurricane MkI into MkIIb and MkIIc?

Yes.

[VO101_Tom]

No, these planes there were very few. Like the P-39. We are not able to make rare aircraft now. Not enough time and people. Maybe we'll make Hurricane, but after the release.

Hello BlackSix.

Have you thought that you should make the SDK available, and anyone can make a plane? Of course, this does not mean that crappy home-made aircraft would be included in the game: the full control, and integration into the game can only happen through 1C/MG? Like the DCS Mig-21, for example?

The publisher would be happy, because it saves work, but the game is developing.
The third-party developer would be happy, because after the sales he will get money (various percentage after the modeling, animating, texturing, programming). I think, it will be not problem, if we can buy these exras in the DLC system.
The players would be happy, because their needs will be met - even if they pay for it. Other aircraft, aircraft variants, ground units, ships, anything (I'm just guessing, if we get driveable land vehicles, the ships will soon. right? :cool:).

The DLC system is no problem if the large maps, with base planeset is also available for purchase directly from 1C (important for online play, the basic game have to contain a basic, all-purpose planeset. Do not be a disadvantage, who does not spend fortunes on the extras).

The point is, everything need to allow by 1C. Too much user-freedom ruin the game balance. But it should be possible, that the community can able to help in this long and difficult task.

[5./JG27.Farber]

The DLC system is no problem if the large maps, with base planeset is also available for purchase directly from 1C (important for online play, the basic game have to contain a basic, all-purpose planeset. Do not be a disadvantage, who does not spend fortunes on the extras).


This is a problem if you make a multiplayer campaign becuase you would have to check what aircraft everyone had. :rolleyes:

I agree with much of what you are saying except the DLC part.

Aircraft added by modders that have met the approval of MG - very good!

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hello BlackSix.

Have you thought that you should make the SDK available, and anyone can make a plane? Of course, this does not mean that crappy home-made aircraft would be included in the game: the full control, and integration into the game can only happen through 1C/MG? Like the DCS Mig-21, for example?

The publisher would be happy, because it saves work, but the game is developing.
The third-party developer would be happy, because after the sales he will get money (various percentage after the modeling, animating, texturing, programming). I think, it will be not problem, if we can buy these exras in the DLC system.
The players would be happy, because their needs will be met - even if they pay for it. Other aircraft, aircraft variants, ground units, ships, anything (I'm just guessing, if we get driveable land vehicles, the ships will soon. right? :cool:).

The DLC system is no problem if the large maps, with base planeset is also available for purchase directly from 1C (important for online play, the basic game have to contain a basic, all-purpose planeset. Do not be a disadvantage, who does not spend fortunes on the extras).

The point is, everything need to allow by 1C. Too much user-freedom ruin the game balance. But it should be possible, that the community can able to help in this long and difficult task.

I expect any prospective 3rd party would be put off by the constant stream of abusive and vindictive posts directed towards the developers.

In the developers place I would get the game engine working right first before releasing the SDK's. Otherwise if there were any issues with third party content there would be a large part of the vocal community here-abouts that would direct their anger and venom toward 1C and it's developers!

It would be a Loose-Loose situation.

[VO101_Tom]

This is a problem if you make a multiplayer campaign becuase you would have to check what aircraft everyone had. :rolleyes:

I agree with much of what you are saying except the DLC part.

Aircraft added by modders that have met the approval of MG - very good!

The planeset of the online campaigns set by the admins. I dont care, if the AI planes become player-driveable, IF the basic package contain the best fighters of the both side). The most frequent requests on this board, bombers and rare aircrafts.

ps. I dont like the DLC in the common forms (pay to cheat), i aggree, it should not be introduced here.

[BlackSix]

Hello BlackSix.

Have you thought that you should make the SDK available, and anyone can make a plane? Of course, this does not mean that crappy home-made aircraft would be included in the game: the full control, and integration into the game can only happen through 1C/MG? Like the DCS Mig-21, for example?

Thomas, the situation has not changed.

Any progress on the SDK?

Yes, but very slow. People who can write the documentation are same people who improve the game. They are buried in other tasks and cannot yet put the game away and start writing prose.

[VO101_Tom]

In the developers place I would get the game engine working right first before releasing the SDK's.

Yes, I think it's so obvious that we're unnecessary to mention :)
First priority the flawless game engine. Everything else just after that.

Otherwise if there were any issues with third party content there would be a large part of the vocal community hereabouts that would direct their anger and venom toward 1C and it's developers!

This is the question of supervision. If they pass through defective parts/planes, then they share the responsibility too.

[VO101_Tom]

Thomas, the situation has not changed.

Thanks.
Please correct me if i wrong, but previously only mentioned the map SDK, not the aircraft SDK. This means that it will be aircraft SDK too?

[Opitz]

I just hope you will release alpha DEMO of next sequel, so everyone can test next next-gen sim from Maddox Games...

btw. it seems like last problem with DX9 support is bigger that you thought...

[bongodriver]

Thanks.
Please correct me if i wrong, but previously only mentioned the map SDK, not the aircraft SDK. This means that it will be aircraft SDK too?


I can't see the point of a map SDk without the ability to make the correct aircraft for the maps.

[BlackSix]

Thanks.
Please correct me if i wrong, but previously only mentioned the map SDK, not the aircraft SDK. This means that it will be aircraft SDK too?

Aircraft, ground units, buildings, maps. Plans were great. But I don't know that we'll be able to make.

[SlipBall]

Aircraft, ground units, buildings, maps. Plans were great. But I don't know that we'll be able to make.


That's an eye opener :-P

[SiThSpAwN]

Aircraft, ground units, buildings, maps. Plans were great. But I don't know that we'll be able to make.

Do you know if the plan is to jump back onto the SDK after CoD is fixed and before the sequel is released? Or is there any sort of firm plan in place right now?

[ATAG_Doc]

And don't ask me about FW-190, please. I can't say.

We have way of making you talk. What about the 190? It's in the sequel yes?

[FS~Phat]

We have way of making you talk. What about the 190? It's in the sequel yes?

You forgot ze german accent! "Vee haff VAYS of making hyu took!"

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pNOpuOOyVpcGu8XlpDRdbsKv7Z01B_u5Oq6iLQkVNZIDEnWi Ub1tvBmYyvyyuSLmKHhezBLtyqOhY634o9p4myg/interrogation.jpg

[BlackSix]

You forgot ze german accent!

:)

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

:-PMan, that is funny!:-P

[Feathered_IV]

Presumably you would be permitted to speak of it if it weren't in the sequel (the same way you could speak of the P-39 & P-40). Therefore the 190 must be in the sequel. Sweet. Please provide a detailed list of all the other things you can't speak of. They can't do you for that... :-P

[JG52Krupi]

Come on you can tell us B6 Luther will never know ;)

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Hey B6,

Have you tried making missions online yet?

I am sure ATAG and Repka servers would love to see your skills if you did!

[SiThSpAwN]

Hey B6,

Have you tried making missions online yet?

I am sure ATAG and Repka servers would love to see your skills if you did!

+1 Would love to fly some B6 missions on ATAG :)

[JG52Krupi]

Hey B6,

Have you tried making missions online yet?

I am sure ATAG and Repka servers would love to see your skills if you did!

Great idea :D

[Robdd1]

Not true! All non-trivial Softwares are a complex beast that have problems and requires fixes, patches and updates.

Even Microsoft has been selling opperating systems and application software since 1975, knowning full well that every single one of their products require a 'great deal of development' and don't quite meet their aims.

In fact they have turned it into a marketing ploy and even stop supporting their older version of their software and force you to buy the newer flawed version just to get their support. And Flight sims just like office software are far from perfect. For the forseable future they will all be patched and updated and evolve. Either that or they will stagnate and die.

I think we are lucky that COD's developers are looking to the future and the long term viability of the series.

The patches don't come as much as I would like true. But at least they are still working on them. I've got boxes of Sim sitting in my shed that are not being supported.

Each and every one of the titles below were great sims or games. How many are still being supported by their developers?

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/Skoshi_Tiger/Olympus068.jpg

Some classic games in that lot - EF2000 was the first mainstream flight sim I bought (after the sluggish but great 'Tornado' on the Amiga) and X Wing. A few of them well supported by fans x-wing mods, il2 etc, with Rise of Flight having the best developer support with new maps and aircraft.

[=AN=Felipe]

where is the patch? im tired to simulate with buged spitfire throttle and against SUPER OVER MODELATED ENGINE power of 109´s..........................

[ATAG_Doc]

BlackSix come man. You cannot resist it. Tell us about the 190 and I will make the pain go away.
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/guyspeed.com/files/2012/03/Shoe-Nice-drinks-Vodka.png?w=625&h=0&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89

[Jugdriver]

LOL!!!

JD
AKA_MattE

[theOden]

haha Doc, you're the best.
:grin:

[furbs]

Didnt we see a FW190 model in one of the updates over a year ago?

[JG52Krupi]

Didnt we see a FW190 model in one of the updates over a year ago?

Nope, I would have recalled it as the beauty would have been burned into my iris :D

[catito14]

This is the new russian model that they will launch in the sequel

http://files.coloribus.com/files/adsarchive/part_50/508355/file/smirnov-vodka-plane-small-12308.jpg

[xpzorg]

"Absolute" - terrible vodka. Try "Russian Standard" or "VEDA" and you will see 190;)

[bongodriver]

Beluga......nuff said

[xpzorg]

I saw cost of vodka in english e-shop...it's delicious:)
"Russian Standart" three times more expensive than in Russia.

[Rjel]

You forgot ze german accent! "Vee haff VAYS of making hyu took!"

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pNOpuOOyVpcGu8XlpDRdbsKv7Z01B_u5Oq6iLQkVNZIDEnWi Ub1tvBmYyvyyuSLmKHhezBLtyqOhY634o9p4myg/interrogation.jpg

You'll never get Victor Mature to talk. Never.

[BlackSix]

Do you know if the plan is to jump back onto the SDK after CoD is fixed and before the sequel is released? Or is there any sort of firm plan in place right now?

I promised to ask Ilya after announcment.

Hey B6,
Have you tried making missions online yet?

I'm the big specialist for offline campaigns only. I'll learn to create online missions in the future. And only for sequel, sorry.

Presumably you would be permitted to speak of it if it weren't in the sequel (the same way you could speak of the P-39 & P-40). Therefore the 190 must be in the sequel. Sweet. Please provide a detailed list of all the other things you can't speak of. They can't do you for that... :-P

It's very difficult)

Didnt we see a FW190 model in one of the updates over a year ago?

No)

[BlackSix]

P.S. I have got some screenshots from Ilya now...
It will be a bomb. Nuclear bomb.
This will probably raise the spirits of our German friends after yesterday's loss.
If we'll publish it today...

[BGs_Ricky]

P.S. I have got some screenshots from Ilya now...
It will be a bomb. Nuclear bomb.
This will probably raise the spirits of our German friends after yesterday's loss.
If we'll publish it today...

FW-190 !!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen:


Just wishing it out loud ;)

[JG52Krupi]

Anyone else get the feeling that the whole forum is holding there breath waiting for the patch?

Also here is a fw190 from 1946 so we can compare...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n154/uscstaylor/il2fb2009-10-0916-18-29-78.jpg

[banned]

Anyone else get the feeling that the whole forum is holding there breath waiting for the patch?
Sorry mate, what was that? I was holding my breath and passed out.

[Helrza]

Anyone else get the feeling that the whole forum is holding there breath waiting for the patch?


I have my doubts we will see a patch... but for sure we gonna see some cool screens :D cant wait to see wat they got up their sleeve's :)

p.s. i am holding my breath for a patch :P but its all good if it dont come :)

[klem]

FW-190 !!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen:


Just wishing it out loud ;)

In the patch? Probably got a D9 FM to take on the Hurricane MkI.

What? Sour? Me?

[Toni74]

P.S. I have got some screenshots from Ilya now...
It will be a bomb. Nuclear bomb.
This will probably raise the spirits of our German friends after yesterday's loss.
If we'll publish it today...

Tedesci will never come back :D forza Italia!

[carguy_]

Also here is a fw190 from 1946 so we can compare...
Praying for the absence of the bomb rack then:mad: but...I WANT MY GUSTAV!!!

[JG52Krupi]

In the patch? Probably got a D9 FM to take on the Hurricane MkI.

What? Sour? Me?

LOL, I do feel for you reds.. I haven't played for a few weeks and hadn't realised how bad things had got, I take it that's why I have not seen 56 since I started flying again?

[Skoshi Tiger]

P.S. I have got some screenshots from Ilya now...
It will be a bomb. Nuclear bomb.


Hopefully it's a Nuclear Bomb in a good way.

Not a sort of "this is what we have been working on but due to all the negative sentiment we've decided to work somewhere that our efforts are appreciated!" type of Nuclear Bomb!
;)

Edit: I do hope they haven't Luthier near a scanner! ;)

[JG52Krupi]

A flyable welly or beaufighter would bring a smile to my face!

[Allons!]

A flyable welly or beaufighter would bring a smile to my face!

Yep, Bo´s would be great for lunch :)

[BGs_Ricky]

In the patch? Probably got a D9 FM to take on the Hurricane MkI.

What? Sour? Me?

I was thinking about screens of a FW-190 for BOM...

In the context of ClOD I don't know what they could bring that would please the germans so much...

[pstyle]

I was thinking about screens of a FW-190 for BOM...

In the context of ClOD I don't know what they could bring that would please the germans so much...


I was thinking a couple of ME 262s in Clod too.. while they're at it.

Oh, and re-equip the RAF with Bristol Bulldogs.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Do not underestimate Bristol Bulldogs, Finns even got aerial kills in them dduring Winter War. 2 kills if I recall right :)

[Osprey]

Another treat coming for the Luftwaffe, what a surprise......

[pstyle]

Another treat coming for the Luftwaffe, what a surprise......

Can't wait to see how the Eastern Font air frames compare to historical in the "sequel".... wonder if the Hurris will suddenly become more powerful to please the Russian market.... ;)

[JG52Krupi]

Oh yeah such a treat getting an aircraft that should be confirmed already, I'd they get an la5 the blues best get the 190 :evil:

[Allons!]

Yep, finally the Mussolini guys proved to be something good for at war. :grin: Italians beat british troops in ukrainian territory. Quite a scenario hihi

Germany proudly presents the final game in the EUR- championship letting the both former junior-allied nations play against each other. We wish the other nations a pleasant evening and may the best one win. :grin: :grin:

[ATAG_Dutch]

I was thinking a couple of ME 262s in Clod too.. while they're at it.

Oh, and re-equip the RAF with Bristol Bulldogs.

Yeah, but they'd give the Bulldog a Sopwith Camel FM.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Another treat coming for the Luftwaffe, what a surprise......

What after the Rata, the la5 and was there a mig3 aswell? Obviously there will be a yak1... So yes Osprey. FW190 for the blues. You reds get 3, we get one! ;)

[ATAG_Dutch]

What after the Rata, the la5 and was there a mig3 aswell? Obviously there will be a yak1... So yes Osprey. FW190 for the blues. You reds get 3, we get one! ;)

It was a LaGG 3, but you blue guys already have loads of flyables, so maybe they're addressing the imbalance! :-P

P.S. I'm betting it's a 109F. :(

[JG52Krupi]

What one fighter compared to the hurri, spit, i 16, lagg3, mig 3 and la5....

[bowlesy]

"It will be a nuclear bomb" suggests it will be a B29 surely. I don't know how they will fit that into context though.lol.:o

[ATAG_Dutch]

Yes but the new plane set will be added to the existing plane set so you've got to think of both! ;)

Plus, the screenshots don't tell us if they're flyable or not, they could all be AI, like the Defiant, Wellington, Sunderland, Beaufighter etc etc.

[carguy_]

P.S. I'm betting it's a 109F. :(
Maybe an F-4;):evil:

[BGs_Ricky]

It was a LaGG 3, but you blue guys already have loads of flyables, so maybe they're addressing the imbalance! :-P

P.S. I'm betting it's a 109F. :(

109F makes more sense for the advance on Moscow in '41, but seeing that we were shown a La-5, which entered service in late 1942, the FW-190 would fit in that time frame.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Yep, but like I edited my last post, screenshots don't tell us whether any of 'em are flyable. :(

[Feathered_IV]

p.s. I have got some screenshots from ilya now...
It will be a bomb. Nuclear bomb.
This will probably raise the spirits of our german friends after yesterday's loss.
If we'll publish it today...

262 or lerche?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Henschel 129?

[JG52Uther]

I'm not going to get too excited over a 109.

[alado]

a 747 and, of course, have a great weekend:-P

[Ze-Jamz]

I'm not going to get too excited over a 109.

I wouldn't either...not against those Russian beasties.... 190 ftw..

[JG52Krupi]

One of the main reasons we should get the 190 other than that they are getting the la5 is that they have so many diverse fighters that when mixed together they will spell trouble for the 109, by adding the 190 it will hopefully even the playing field a bit by adding some more tactics and being a great ground pounder to boot :D

[Zorin]

One of the main reasons we should get the 190 other than that they are getting thela5 is that they have so many diverse fighters that when mixed will spell trouble for the 109 the 190 will even the playing field a bit adding some more tactics and being a great ground pounder to boot :D

And it entered service way before the La-5 and, while we are at it, Yak-9. So there would be no excuse in the world to not ship BoM without a Fw190.

[csThor]

If they're talking about the Battle of Stalingrad, or even the map for BoM, then no Fw 190 has a place there. It's first appearance on the Eastern Front was in September 1942, too, but on the other side of the frontline (at Lyuban south of Leningrad). The closest a Fw 190 ever got to Stalingrad was a posting of a Staffel of ground-attack A-5 in spring of 1943 on the Taman peninsula whereas at Moscow the Fw 190 did not appear until October 1942.

I'd greatly prefer MG to limit their planeset to the historically relevant types for the operation they wish to depict and not go for some "KeWl factor" or "online balance".

[BlackSix]

I'd greatly prefer MG to limit their planeset to the historically relevant types for the operation they wish to depict and not go for some "KeWl factor" or "online balance".

The historically relevant types of aircraft on the first place, don't worry.

[carguy_]

One of the main reasons we should get the 190 other than that they are getting the la5 is that they have so many diverse fighters that when mixed together they will spell trouble for the 109, by adding the 190 it will hopefully even the playing field a bit by adding some more tactics and being a great ground pounder to boot :D
Sorry but the Gustav or even Friedrich is more than enough to counter the Lavochkin and it is easier to fly. The only reason I`d onclude the FW190 is absence of a Bf109 equiped in 20mm. Moreover, I`d prefer historical planesets now that CsThor said what he said.

And talking about personal taste - I don`t like escorting FWs.

[JG52Krupi]

If they're talking about the Battle of Stalingrad, or even the map for BoM, then no Fw 190 has a place there. It's first appearance on the Eastern Front was in September 1942, too, but on the other side of the frontline (at Lyuban south of Leningrad). The closest a Fw 190 ever got to Stalingrad was a posting of a Staffel of ground-attack A-5 in spring of 1943 on the Taman peninsula whereas at Moscow the Fw 190 did not appear until October 1942.

I'd greatly prefer MG to limit their planeset to the historically relevant types for the operation they wish to depict and not go for some "KeWl factor" or "online balance".

Was the La5 at stalingrad?

[JG52Krupi]

Sorry but the Gustav or even Friedrich is more than enough to counter the Lavochkin and it is easier to fly. The only reason I`d onclude the FW190 is absence of a Bf109 equiped in 20mm. Moreover, I`d prefer historical planesets now that CsThor said what he said.

And talking about personal taste - I don`t like escorting FWs.

Did you even bother to read what i posted.... :!:

[Bewolf]

Sorry but the Gustav or even Friedrich is more than enough to counter the Lavochkin and it is easier to fly. The only reason I`d onclude the FW190 is absence of a Bf109 equiped in 20mm. Moreover, I`d prefer historical planesets now that CsThor said what he said.

And talking about personal taste - I don`t like escorting FWs.

Jup, gimme a 109F or early G and that is suficient to keep me happy for a looooong time. A 190 can't hurt either, but I won't throw a tantrum if it is not included initially.

A Hs123 on the other hand....

[Skoshi Tiger]

If we have drivable tanks, we'll need observers. My guess is a Fieseler Storch!

[csThor]

Was the La5 at stalingrad?

Yep. First in combat was 49 IAP in the central combat zone (first claim on August 16 1942) while at Stalingrad 287 IAD (with 27, 240, 297 and 437 IAP) began flying combat missions on August 20 1942.

[Blackdog_kt]

I was mostly flying the 190 in IL2 so i'll be naturally happy if it makes an appearance in the sequel. If it's an early model we could also make use of it in the existing BoB map as well.

In fact, the BoB map is good enough for scenarios up to 43-44 (unless long range bombers are concerned), so i guess that whatever appears for the eastern front add-on could be paired with suitable RAF aircraft and be used on the channel map as well. For example, if we get 109Fs and early 190s, modifying existing RAF flyables to model Spit Mk.Vs and Hurricane Mk.IIs would give us channel front content suitable for 1942, adding a 109G and a Hawker Typhoon or mosquito could move things forward a bit more, and so on.

[JG52Krupi]

Yep. First in combat was 49 IAP in the central combat zone (first claim on August 16 1942) while at Stalingrad 287 IAD (with 27, 240, 297 and 437 IAP) began flying combat missions on August 20 1942.

Well I am all for a realistic plane set, I am by no means saying that since they get the la5 we should get the 190 its just that they have so many types that they can use against the 109 that they have every potential advantage of the 109 covered... la5 below ~3000m and the mig3 is good at high altitudes... etc

We will have to see when they officially announce the sequel.

P.S. If they bring back the infamous bar I will not be bothering :evil: there is already mutterings in the ranks about rather rare Russian aircraft variants being made standard, really hope this is not true!

[csThor]

Any server admin and mission builder with a real interest in history would have to make the Yak-1 Model 1942 (not Yak-1b, though!) the main fighter type of the VVS in 1942, anyway. Any other types (like Yak-7B, LaGG-3, La-5 or any of the Lend&Lease-Types) were far less numerous than the Yak-1 models.

[carguy_]

\
Yes, csThor. MG did the exact thing in the past.

[He111]

I'm just waiting for my beloved Cementer .. or it's deformed nemisis to shot myself down ..

Talk about inbreeding! ... :shock:

http://www.airwar1946.nl/whif/L46-me110K.htm

.

[pstyle]

First half of Friday update is posted by B6. Thread is locked tho.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Who said 109F? They win!

[tintifaxl]

Who said 109F? They win!

I guess no one did. Everyone was hoping for the FW-190.

[ATAG_Dutch]

P.S. I'm betting it's a 109F. :(

SCORE!!!!! :grin:

[SiThSpAwN]

Well June 22nd update thread, its been fun this past week, now we will respectfully watch you drop down the thread list into IL2 history *Salute*

:grin:

[banned]

Just friggin unbelievable

[Flanker]

Pacific fighters?, cant think of anything less appealing :cool:

oh, how can you NOT like flying over atolls and archipelagos and beautiful emerald green water in a Corsair or Zero!:)
Pacific Fighters IS the best sequel

[TonyD]

oh, how can you NOT like flying over atolls and archipelagos and beautiful emerald green water in a Corsair or Zero!:)
Pacific Fighters IS the best sequel

I thought so too, mainly because I saw it as a huge upgrade to CFS2 that we were playing on LAN at the time. I was the only one to get it though since one of our group did not like the unknown FM’s and DM’s – he liked to edit these since he was familiar with FS and it was similar. I found out later that he used to cheat like this, and found the PF aircraft too difficult to master :-P I flew the hell out of on my own instead.

[jojimbo]

3 days of posts vanished dammit :rolleyes:
did I miss anything?

I'll buy the sequel simply because the devs could prolly do with the cash,
more cash = fixes, I want to to flourish, so they can work on a new FB
with a HUUUUGE map of Europe, b17's 262's P51's,

any news on a windows 8 fix? it's not windows 8 btw it's this game.