Just FYI, SOW is not dead

[crazyivan1970]

Greetings folks,
I see a lot of rumors going around about SOW being dead, discontinued, taking out of webstores, etc...not only on this forum, others as well...

It is NOT dead, and one of the reason Oleg is not around is THE indication of that. They are extremely busy with development, working crazy hours, etc. Oleg mentioned to me that he did not forget about you people and that IF he has time, he will organize some kind of update in the nearest future.

The end :)

[Feuerfalke]

Thanks for the heads-up, Ivan.

IMHO this is just spilling oil on the flames, though, because these threads come up more and more to raise the pressure. If they are really rewarded by information from this bullying, we will see decaying threads even more often in the future. :(

[mondo]

Cheerz Ivan. Glad to know Oleg and Co. are working away hard.

[Tree_UK]

If they had worked hard from the start it would be out by now!!:):)

[Feuerfalke]

Don't know, but I'm sure we would still be playing vanilla 1946. ;)

[robtek]

@Tree_UK
even with the smileys it is a "not very clever" remark as long as you do not know how big the workload for the team is.
Or can you prove that oleg and his team have been lazy???
Sorry if that came out a bit harsh, but i couldn´t help it.

[mondo]

If they had worked hard from the start it would be out by now!!:):)

Maybe, although producing a game these days is an expensive and time consuming process, especially since they are building there own game engine and building an engine that removes all the faults Il2 had with adding new content.

IMHO the be all and end all of this is the community is extremely demanding, to satisfy that demand Maddox and Co. have a hell of allot of work to do, to assume it won't take them less and 3 or 4 years to complete, from proof of concept to gold master is little naive.

[Tree_UK]

Hey relax Robtek, its an English thing - we generally call it joking. No offense taken though. :):)

[334th_Gazoo0]

Maybe, although producing a game these days is an expensive and time consuming process, especially since they are building there own game engine and building an engine that removes all the faults Il2 had with adding new content.

IMHO the be all and end all of this is the community is extremely demanding, to satisfy that demand Maddox and Co. have a hell of allot of work to do, to assume it won't take them less and 3 or 4 years to complete, from proof of concept to gold master is little naive.

Further to your point Mondo. I believe with the hardware changes which are ongoing, throughout the development cycle, running changes to the engine and or code itself are probably happening, resulting in a fair bit of rework.
This could result in further delays

[JG53Frankyboy]

Don't know, but I'm sure we would still be playing vanilla 1946. ;)

you mean vanilla AEP................... ;)

[Feuerfalke]

you mean vanilla AEP................... ;)

If not worse. What was the patch with the new flightmodels that were used as testing basis for BoB? :grin:

[Jughead]

"Oleg mentioned to me that he did not forget about you people and that IF he has time, he will organize some kind of update in the nearest future."

Organize? Tell him to take the easy way out. http://www.fraps.com/
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm not sure what an in-game vid is worth, but I'd sure like to see one.

[Feuerfalke]

"Oleg mentioned to me that he did not forget about you people and that IF he has time, he will organize some kind of update in the nearest future."

Organize? Tell him to take the easy way out. http://www.fraps.com/
They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm not sure what an in-game vid is worth, but I'd sure like to see one.

Wow. I didn't know that fraps record a movie, send it to UBI for approval, get positive answer despite of the current politics concerning SoW immediately, upload it on a server and post a thread plus link here. One hell of a tool. :!:

[crazyivan1970]

Unfortunately people dont really see the difference between developers and publishers :D

[kristorf]

Ta for 'heads up' Ivan

[Jughead]

"Unfortunately people dont really see the difference between developers and publishers"

Who is the publisher for SoW in Russia?

[SlipBall]

Thanks!...I never doubted for one minute, SOW is gonna be awsome:-P

[Former_Older]

Greetings folks,
I see a lot of rumors going around about SOW being dead, discontinued, taking out of webstores, etc...not only on this forum, others as well...

It is NOT dead, and one of the reason Oleg is not around is THE indication of that. They are extremely busy with development, working crazy hours, etc. Oleg mentioned to me that he did not forget about you people and that IF he has time, he will organize some kind of update in the nearest future.

The end :)

Nice effort but a waste of time Ivan. You know the score all too well. The people who want to believe SoW is dead and won't ever happen, and wouldn't ever have happened, they deceived us, blah blah blah, will never read your post and suddenly say "Oh, well I see, I was wrong, it seems. I'll be more objective in the future and I'll stop believing rumors"

On the other hand, the reasonable folks already know all this. And stuck in the middle are those that just play the realistic game: if it happens, it happens.

When I read a bunch of people posting "SoW is dead" on forums, here there everywhere, I take it for what it's worth: a lot of talk from people who know nothing and like to guess and stir up needless debate over a thing they haven't a clue about

[crazyivan1970]

@Jughead - Publisher is 1C.

@Former_Older: I do know that too well, but still had to say something. There are new people onboard and they should know things the way they are, not based on someones guesses, you know...

[HenFre]

Thank you for the situation update crazyivan. Was beginning to wonder what was going on over there in Moscow ;-)

[ElAurens]

Thanks Ivan!!!

:cool:

[proton45]

the sad thing is that this message actually dose makes me feel better...

[dflion]

Thanks crazyivan, these rumours do p... you off.

After seeing Olegs's development pics of the 'DH Tiger Moth', I knew there was a lot of hard work going on in the background.

You can also see some test/development work for SOW on the new Slovakia and Bessarabia maps, especially around the airfields.

If members are losing patience, my suggestion is to play some of the new IL-2 campaigns, featuring the new maps and re-visit the fantastic flight-sim that Oleg has already provided us.

SOW-BOB will be worth the wait.

DFLion

[Tree_UK]

Thanks for the update, i think a lot of the rumors start because online company's have given refunds from pre-orders and because some gaming shops have knocked it off their list, this is what happens if you miss your release date by a couple of years. I do not doubt it will happen, its just a case of when, what would be good is if someone at 1C or maybe even Oleg gave an update on why they are so far off the original release date, this would certainly give most people an insight into how big a project SOW is, especially with big changes in hardware that we have had over the last 2 years. Im sure a little understanding from both doubters and developers would get everybody back on board. :)

[Chivas]

Reasons for delays

Pacific Fighters
Pe-2
IL-2 1946
Plenty of free add-ons
These are just things that kept them from working on BOB SOW full tilt for the last 4 years. Nevermind all the normal delays when developing a new product.
Most of us realize they have been working very hard on all these projects and have dropped in from time to time to let us know things are progressing. I would imagine we will start seeing more detail this summer. If not...we'll see it when its ready to be seen.

[Tree_UK]

Yeah good point Chivas, i didn't realize that it was the same team still doing all the IL2 updates.

[mazex]

Thanks for the update Ivan!

As long as we know that Oleg and his staff are working hard on the game I'm content to some extent. What we do NOT know is if Oleg spends 20 hours a day trying to raise funds to keep the project running and pay the bills on his table... It does not matter how good the simulator COULD be if the costs go beyond the expected income from it. Flight simulators for the PC market are unfortunately not the most lucrative products of the gaming industry. There is someone that pays for the development of this product because they expect to get more income from the sales of the game than the money spent developing it - and if they are not worried right now I would be very surprised. The comments heard in the past about the fact the Maddox Games NEEDED to get the game done in 2007 and then 2008 makes those fears boil for some of us at least, when the release date seems to move even further into the uncertain future...

There are a lot of people that get angry for some reason when other people start to have doubts about the state of this project. Being a manager of a development department myself I am very aware that EVERY project faces a risk of being canceled up until the day of release. Every project has sponsors and when their spreadsheets starts to show red figures for too long they finally pull the plug. I have seen projects with budgets of completely other proportions that got the axe after too many millions where poured into them without the expected progress. When information about a delayed project starts to thin out it's rather natural to start asking questions...

Anyway - I'm glad to hear that the team is working hard and I really hope the the financial backing for the project is there to finish it they way we know that Oleg and his team are capable of!

/Mazex

[Skarphol]

I'm glad to hear that the project is still alive and all that, but wouldn't it be a little bit better to show some images a little bit more often than they do now?
I would be happy just to see some more pictures of the allready shown planes, like the Sunderland, Tigher Moth, Bf-110! Just the same planes from a different angle would keep me fairly satisfied for a couple of weeks. And the images we have seen on this forum doesn't really show any progress anyway, so there is nothing for competing flightsims to gain from the pictures shown. What we have seen so far on this forum are merely models of planes with higher number of polygons than we have allready in IL-2. If you fly alongside a Bf-110 in SOW:BOB at a distance of 150m I bet you wont be able to see any difference from flying along the same plane in IL-2 from 150m. So there is nothing to loose by showing some pictures, but I think it is a lot to gain in keeping the interrest up in the community. And it can't be that much job to send 5 screenshots to the mod of this forum every fourtnight.
Just my two cents.

Skarphol

[BadAim]

For my $.02, I'll straddle the fence decisively.
I can testify from Personal experience that tossing a few pictures into a hastily composed e-mail really is to much to ask after a 12-16 hr work day, especially when I haven't seen my kid awake in two weeks and my wife keeps a photo handy to make sure she recognizes me when I do get home.
I also understand the conspiracy theories all to well, hell it took us over 30 years to fugure out that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK. (and some still don't believe it)

[jermin]

@Tree_UK
even with the smileys it is a "not very clever" remark as long as you do not know how big the workload for the team is.
Or can you prove that oleg and his team have been lazy???
Sorry if that came out a bit harsh, but i couldn´t help it.


If you know, why don't you tell us?

[LEXX]

Skarp (taken out of context):: ....If you fly alongside a Bf-110 in SOW:BOB at a distance of 150m I bet you wont be able to see any difference from flying along the same plane in IL-2 from 150m....
Sadly, this by itself is true. All the extra polygons are never to be seen except in static closeup cameo screenshots on combat sim webboards, although also in advertising and gaming rag reviews in attempts to sell grafix alone. This is where air combat The Sims developers always make the same industry standard blunders trying to compete with the ground shooter sims on...on their own ground. :grin:

[Feathered_IV]

Thanks CrazyIvan. Heard it before, but it doesn't hurt to hear it again. ;)

[Vigilant]

Cheers Crazy Ivan :D I don't mind being brought back down to earth sometimes...

[SpudGun]

Thank you Crazyivan1970 for the update, I have met Oleg on a couple of occasions :)once when he was demonstrating SOW in its infancy, it looks great and will be well worth the wait:grin: The wait is probably due to ongoing new technical devepments, which take time to incorporate into the sim. Remember this is not an add on, and has a new graphics engine to boot, to take us to the next level of widescreen eye candy, everyone is waiting for!, the wait will be well worth it:-P

James UK

[Avimimus]

Skarp (taken out of context)::
Sadly, this by itself is true. All the extra polygons are never to be seen except in static closeup cameo screenshots on combat sim webboards, although also in advertising and gaming rag reviews in attempts to sell grafix alone. This is where air combat The Sims developers always make the same industry standard blunders trying to compete with the ground shooter sims on...on their own ground. :grin:

If you think about it, this is more due to hardware limitations. The hardware has been driven by first person shooters and the like (which in turn have been driven be 640x480xlotsadetail console games). If all gamers were simers we'd have 4092x3072 resolution monitors and video cards designed around them by now...

[Jughead]

The more I see of the new games the more I'm convinced that lighting and shadows are the key. Look at TV. Standard resolution stinks but it looks real because the lighting and shadows are exactly correct. Physics are very important too. I hope we see parts still attached and flapping in the wind in the damage model of SoW. Oh, and realistic reflections too. Look at car wind shields when driving down the road on a sunny day. The very bright reflections from very small areas. If I get all my wants and wishes, I'll need a Cray to run it!

[TheFamilyMan]

Thanks for the heads up, CrazyIvan. I'm in no hurry for SoW BoB and I rather it'd be released fully operational than half-arsed. Also, I'm sure I'll need a new rig for it anyways. The long we wait the better if you consider the hardware that will be available to run it full up.

[Thunderbolt56]

S!

[apparition]

Greetings folks,
I see a lot of rumors going around about SOW being dead, discontinued, taking out of webstores, etc...not only on this forum, others as well...

It is NOT dead, and one of the reason Oleg is not around is THE indication of that. They are extremely busy with development, working crazy hours, etc. Oleg mentioned to me that he did not forget about you people and that IF he has time, he will organize some kind of update in the nearest future.

The end :)


sorry ivan but nobody is that busy they cant take a few mins to make a quick post every couple weeks.

[crazyivan1970]

sorry ivan but nobody is that busy they cant take a few mins to make a quick post every couple weeks.

As i said... there is a big difference between publishers and developers...

[Feuerfalke]

As i said... there is a big difference between publishers and developers...

Yeah, this little difference seems to be a big mystery, apparently even for those who claim to work in the business and run their own projects.

If you want to have news, regular updates, movies, WIP-stuff, Dev-Diaries, advertising-campaigns and stuff like that, you should post it on the UBI-forums, not here. Oleg and his team program this game, UBI-Soft is the one responsible for everything PR related, including approval and denial of informations being released by others.

[mondo]

Feuerfalke, while in a way your argument is valid, 1C is the Russian publisher for Maddox games. So Oleg has just as much validity to post new here as he does on Ubi.

[Feuerfalke]

Feuerfalke, while in a way your argument is valid, 1C is the Russian publisher for Maddox games. So Oleg has just as much validity to post new here as he does on Ubi.

Not necessarily, as the internet is NOT limited to the Russian market. Their rights for publishing however ARE limited to that area.

As you might know from the past, there were pictures released in a game magazine about early phases of SoW, showing cockpits and stuff, before it was released in the rest of the world. How long did it take to spread the scans? Not a full day IIRC and I can very well imagine that UBI didn't really like that.

It was also mentioned several times, that 1C is not free to post news and stuff on the internet. This is not only true for SoW, but also for the Korean sim being worked on. It's pretty clearly stated on the RRG-Homepage that they cannot post updates as long as the title is not officially announced.

[mazex]

Yeah, this little difference seems to be a big mystery, apparently even for those who claim to work in the business and run their own projects.

If you want to have news, regular updates, movies, WIP-stuff, Dev-Diaries, advertising-campaigns and stuff like that, you should post it on the UBI-forums, not here. Oleg and his team program this game, UBI-Soft is the one responsible for everything PR related, including approval and denial of informations being released by others.

Can you verify that Ubisoft is still the publisher for the western hemisphere? Got link? I don't know but the 1C/Atari co-publishing deal must have put some gravel in the machinery I guess. There was for sure an agreement with Ubisoft regarding SoW:BoB as the only official press release is from Ubisoft, and it SEEMS to be excluded from the Atari deal. Very little public information is available so I can only guess that everything is not as it used to be between Ubisoft/1C/Maddox Games. By the way, as you seem informed - can you explain the financing of this game. Who pays for the development? Ubisoft, 1C or Maddox Games themselves? Who has a deal with who by the way? Are all the international publishing deals going through 1C or does Maddox Games have a "loose" relationship with 1C. Who really owns Maddox Games by the way?

Regarding the claim that all information is channeled through the publisher and their web site, what is really the deal with the images and information in this forum from Oleg? This is the only information that has been released the last year and it's not avaliable anywhere on the Ubisoft forums... Why? Why does not Oleg post there instead if the business agreements between the developer and the publisher is crystal clear and everything is nice and dandy?

/Mazex

[Feuerfalke]

Can you verify that Ubisoft is still the publisher for the western hemisphere? Got link? I don't know but the 1C/Atari co-publishing deal must have put some gravel in the machinery I guess. There was for sure an agreement with Ubisoft regarding SoW:BoB as the only official press release is from Ubisoft, and it SEEMS to be excluded from the Atari deal. Very little public information is available so I can only guess that everything is not as it used to be between Ubisoft/1C/Maddox Games. By the way, as you seem informed - can you explain the financing of this game. Who pays for the development? Ubisoft, 1C or Maddox Games themselves? Who has a deal with who by the way? Are all the international publishing deals going through 1C or does Maddox Games have a "loose" relationship with 1C. Who really owns Maddox Games by the way?

Regarding the claim that all information is channeled through the publisher and their web site, what is really the deal with the images and information in this forum from Oleg? This is the only information that has been released the last year and it's not avaliable anywhere on the Ubisoft forums... Why? Why does not Oleg post there instead if the business agreements between the developer and the publisher is crystal clear and everything is nice and dandy?

/Mazex

I'm not working with 1C, Maddox team, UBI-Soft or anything. But I do read forums and all the information I post is either posted here, on the UBI-Forums or over at SimHQ. There's nothing secret or insider-news about it. Just one minute of this nice little forum-search-tool or google will do.

You are right. There was a big storm in the fishbowl, when ATARI made the deal official they will publish future products for 1C in the western hemisphere. At this time, SoW-engine was already licensed to UBI, though, and not part of the deal with ATARI. Apparently UBI-Soft was convinced by the success of the IL2-Series, that SoW will be even more profitable and secured the deal quite early.
http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=15164

Considering all news and circumstances I guess UBI-Soft does the major part of the financing, while 1C does the rest, so of course they also dictate what information is released, how and when. To put it more clearly: Maddox Games is producing the title, UBI and 1C have licensed or "bought" it, so it is practically theirs. That is probably also the reason why we see those little tidbits of information here and not on UBI: 1C probably uses their part of the deal to put out some information. That is up to them and UBI, though, not to Maddox Games or Oleg himself.

Remember that in the past with all products from the IL2-Line, even every single producers note-clip had to be sent to UBI approved and then was published on their servers. Same is for the patches and downloadable addons.


So, the answer why Oleg does not post just as he likes to, was answered several times, but apparently not in a way that pleases people.


Link (to one of these 1Cs forum btw.):
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=33886#post33886

The release dates depend on our Western partners and their plans, so sometimes we can't give an exact answer to this question.


In other words: If UBI allows informations to be posted, there will be informations posted.

[jermin]

So, your former replies are all based on your speculation? Sweet.

[Feuerfalke]

So, your former replies are all based on your speculation? Sweet.

Are you refering to me? :confused:

[HenFre]

+1 Jermin :-)

[Feuerfalke]

Well, if you are refering to me, then there really is a lot of speculation.

But only from your side, interpretating my repeated statements that I have all my informations from the forums and google were just put forward to mask my close relationship to Maddox Games.

I'd very much appreciate a single quote of my replies, that says something different.

[JG52Uther]

Feuerfalke unfortunately in your replies to posts it does come across as though you are connected to 1C in some official way,like you are some sort of spokesman for Oleg or something! We know different but some people might be confused,and think that your answers are something more than conjecture,your opinion,or something you read somewhere on a web forum.
Maybe its a language thing.

Thanks Ivan for the heads up! Rumours must be flying thick and fast for you to have to make such a post!

[KG26_Alpha]

As i said... there is a big difference between publishers and developers...

+1

[Feuerfalke]

Feuerfalke unfortunately in your replies to posts it does come across as though you are connected to 1C in some official way,like you are some sort of spokesman for Oleg or something! We know different but some people might be confused,and think that your answers are something more than conjecture,your opinion,or something you read somewhere on a web forum.
Maybe its a language thing.

Thanks Ivan for the heads up! Rumours must be flying thick and fast for you to have to make such a post!

I doubt it's a language thing. The forum-members asking me, if I am a spokesman for Oleg do so, because I counter most of the claims and demands for information with statements already published here and on other forums.

So, while some people that stumble across this forum every once in a while to see what's the news might misinterpret my statements, people who actively participate in those threads cannot have missed where I got my informations from.

On the other hand, if understanding Olegs situation and countering some of those partially really silly posts with older quotes makes me "connected" to 1C or Oleg, I think this community really needs to relax and calm down. If we've come so far that it is community against 1C or Oleg, something went terribly wrong.

[jasonbirder]

Unfortunately…there is little or no competition within the World War 2 Combat Flight Simulation arena…there is demand from a passionate and active customer base but no supply…
Which leaves us in a situation where 1C are able to produce a game that they want to produce knowing people will end up buying it on the basis that customer choice will consist of BOB-SOW or nothing…and UBI/1C are able to completely ignore the unnecessary but courteous chore of occasionally bothering to tell people when/and or if they can expect release of the marketed product…

[Skoshi Tiger]

Unfortunately…there is little or no competition within the World War 2 Combat Flight Simulation arena…there is demand from a passionate and active customer base but no supply…
Which leaves us in a situation where 1C are able to produce a game that they want to produce knowing people will end up buying it on the basis that customer choice will consist of BOB-SOW or nothing…and UBI/1C are able to completely ignore the unnecessary but courteous chore of occasionally bothering to tell people when/and or if they can expect release of the marketed product…

The opposite side of that, is that knowing that there isn't any serious competition, they could have fed us a constant stream of glossy hiz pictures, beat up how great the product will be and then deliver a lemon.

I know that I will buy SOW because of the great amount of enjoyment I have recieved from Olegs previous titles. While other titles gather dust on my shelf, '46 stays pretty much in my drive.

I think he and his team will do their best to deliver a high quality combat flight sim, because he thats what he has done in the past. I'ld prefer to let him get on with thier work and do the job right!

[mazex]

I doubt it's a language thing. The forum-members asking me, if I am a spokesman for Oleg do so, because I counter most of the claims and demands for information with statements already published here and on other forums.


Well, I did not think that you where connected to 1C/Maddox Games when I asked some questions above - however it seems like you have read a lot of the information available in public sources so I was interested in what you knew as I'm not always up to date and we only get tiny bits of information i different forums...

Still, I have read a number of posts where people for some reason get the impression that you have the "real information" as opposed to other peoples speculations and maybe could have some relationship with some company involved. If I where you I would think this over. Maybe adding stuff like: "From what I've read in a number of forums...", "In my opinion..." etc.

Regards /Mazex

[Feuerfalke]

@ mazex
In fact most of my statements begin with IMHO or AFAIK, or "as it was posted before", making it pretty clear that I'm not an oracle or feel anywhere close to it. ;)

I must confess, though, that in response to some "I DEMAND" threads, I tend to answer in a similar way, without the 'flowers of speech'.


@ jasonbirder
Your post is a great example for what I just mentioned. And pretty straight forward wrong in almost any regard.
1. There are a number of simulations currently being worked on and with a release-date kept in secret to wait for competitors to do the first move. A sequel to M$ CFS is one of them, a project from Shockwave apparently about early WW2 is another. Additionally there is a WW1-sim, Knights of the Sky possibly being released in Q4 this year. http://wwiaircombat.com/
(Not to mention other jetsims and BlackShark, who might not directly compete within the same niche. )
Now, can you post any information here about the competitors? Any link? Any Q&A? Any release date? No? You didn't even know anything about them? Then how can you think releasing information about the status, content or release can help Oleg in any way? You know, it's not only the fans watching this forum.

2. If there is anybody really wanting, REALLY NEEDING to get this game a success it's not us fans, but Oleg, his team, 1C and UBI. They are feeding their families from their hard work on the game and the success they will have with it.

3. Neither Maddox, nor 1C or UBI owe us anything, nor do they hold back information to hurt anybodies personal feelings.

[Feuerfalke]

The opposite side of that, is that knowing that there isn't any serious competition, they could have fed us a constant stream of glossy hiz pictures, beat up how great the product will be and then deliver a lemon.

Not like this ever happened before!

Like, well, lets make a very much fictional example, calling it, uh, Pacific Fighters, maybe? :-P

Yeah, Maddox learned the hard way, how a direct and cheerful communication with the fans can very quickly backfire in your face.

[KG26_Alpha]

Pacific Fighters wasnt anything to do with Oleg.

It seems you lack factual substance and most your posts are gossip from other forums by your own admission.

Deal with facts and not opinions.

[Skarphol]

Pacific Fighters wasnt anything to do with Oleg.

It seems you lack factual substance and most your posts are gossip from other forums by your own admission.

Deal with facts and not opinions.

I think Feuerfalke has been quite clear that what he puts forward is based on information from this and other forums. Nothing wrong about that.
For some reason this thread has allmost turned into a 'Flame Feuerfalke'-thread. He is mainly just trying to explaine a lot of unpatient simmers like me the likely reason for the complete lack of substansial information on SOW:BOB.
I'm at an age of 38 as unpatient as a child on x-mas eve when it comes to SOW:BOB. But it's stupid to accuse Feuerfalke for Santa never showing up with gifts..

Skarphol

[Chivas]

Pacific Fighters wasnt anything to do with Oleg.

It seems you lack factual substance and most your posts are gossip from other forums by your own admission.

Deal with facts and not opinions.

Wrong....Pacific Fighters had everything to do with Oleg....It was a third party add-on that Olegs crew helped finish, which also delayed BOB SOW close to a year.

[Feuerfalke]

I think it's quite natural that shooting the messenger is always easier than accepting the message.

I'm no young-gun either, Skarphol, but I share your feelings about SoW:BoB and the reason why I am here is primarily the hope for bits of informations being released, too. But that doesn't mean I think i am the king because I will buy this game, nor do I think that Maddox, 1C or UBI do anything completely wrong or owe me anything. They're running this business for a long time and as I posted before, they are literally depending on the success of the engine and the new series. I'm not. My life will go on, even if the project is canceled. I'm not sure for some other people, though...


@ KG26_Alpha
Oleg had nothing to do with Pacific Fighters? That's really new to me. Maybe you can share your informations with us?
AFAIK Maddox and UBI published informations about PF pretty early and it turned out they couldn't deliver what they promised for several reasons. Some, or rather most of them were beyond Oleg's control (partially because it was 3rd Party), but it was Oleg being directly flamed for that misinformation, as well as UBI, who even printed the cover with the wrong planelist. Of course you are free to correct me, if I didn't sum it up right.

[Viking]

So….! Who is this Oleg dude and what doe’s a newbie with only 35 posts know about SoW?
Get real!

Viking

[crazyivan1970]

Folks dont fight... and dont speculate either... The point of this post is - SOW is very much alive and kicking... and lack of updates, well - that`s another story.

[mazex]

@Skarphol


I'm at an age of 38 as unpatient as a child on x-mas eve when it comes to SOW:BOB. But it's stupid to accuse Feuerfalke for Santa never showing up with gifts..


38 is a very good age (which I guess that CrazyIvan agrees to as well (1970?)) - and I'm as impatient as my oldest son the day before christmas regarding SoW too ;)

@Feuerfalke - I hope that you don't take my comment as a flame attempt as I seldom have any problems with the actual content of your posts, it's only that you sometimes sounds too much like someone defending your own company ;)

@CrazyIvan - The problem is that we are all so curious about that reason for not showing any images ;) As long as everyone at Maddox Games gets their paychecks and work hard (but not too hard) with SoW, I am content... WHEN it gets released is not my problem - I'm more worried about if it gets rushed out of the door or even dropped completely after too many delays. I'm not really concerned about seeing any graphics galore in screenshots either (as IL2 looks good enough). I would however like to see an ingame image or movie to make sure that they are getting close to beta (summer 2008 has been hinted by Oleg?). If they are not, I would be concerned if I worked at the company paying the bills...

I just hope that the next screens released are not images of splendid 3D models again that could be from some high quality 3D Studio or Maya site on the net. They are for sure extremely beautiful and the detail level is staggering, but we've got the message that the 3D models of the planes are great. Show us something else. Maybe some GUI images if Oleg want's to keep the landscape behind the curtain for a while? The problem with that is maybe that the final touches of the GUI are often the last things done with a game (from my own experience at least)...

And finally @Viking - What does someone that registered here as late as in November know ;)

/Mazex

[choctaw111]

Seven pages already. It just goes to show that many people really are excited about BoB, just like me. More folks come to this forum than any other forum on the 1C website. That also speaks volumes.
Every time a hear those rumors of "vaporware" and such, I ALWAYS say that WHEN BoB is released, it will be far more than we had ever expected. I am patiently waiting, and Oleg will release it when it is ready. He has demonstrated this so many times in the past and should have certainly earned our faith and trust by now.

[Bearcat]

Of that I have absolutely no doubt Ivan. From where I sit... no news is good news. If it was canceled then we would have been told.. we were told it is being worked on. That was the last thing we got. For my way of thinking , to think anything contrary in the absence of contrary info is just silly and a waste of time.

[DKoor]

Eh... I'd wait two more years if I know they gonna make it right...
And I have no indication that it wont be right...
I can understand that game takes long time to make... and they probably don't have as much manpower & resources as big game industry... that may be the reason why the big sharks are producing titles really fast.

I'm more than satisfied with the screens I saw, and vids I saw.
One step ahead, really...

Good times are ahead of us simmers...:cool:
KotS, SOW...


We should be glad that it is happening, because I personally know very very few people that are interested in aviation let alone WW2 aviations, let alone WW2 aviation games...

Therefore market is limited as these titles are interesting to a limited number of people.

And all the stuff that comes with this...

[Feuerfalke]

SOW is very much alive and kicking...

Never doubted that :)

[mazex]

I'm glad for everone that sees no dark clouds on the sky as long as we are promised that the development is still going on. Economy and budgets is something for the bean counters and does not affect great programmers like Oleg and his guys...

Yep - I am obviously a "glass half full" pessimistic conspiracy theorist as I'm really concerned about the economy of this project. Still, the informaton that the development is still going on is good news, but I'm not really happy before Ubisoft (or someone else!) starts a big marketing campaign. Then I know that there is a publisher with the money needed to get this product flying that is a believer too! If that happens, I have no problem with more delays...

/Mazex

[Vigilant]

Eh... I'd wait two more years if I know they gonna make it right...

Two years, be sure :wink:

[Chivas]

I little doubt that BOB SOW will be completed. That said any project can be canned, but we know from periodic information that everything is full steam ahead especially since all the work on the Il-2 series has stopped.

People have been wailing for a proper advertising campaign to start since 2005. It would have been a colossal waste of money had the developer and publisher listened to us, lol. The advertising will start when its time to start, especially since they also want to use the SOW engine for cgi movies.

[Stuntie]

Unfortunately people dont really see the difference between developers and publishers :D

Developers work for a living.
Publishers seek to take the living from the developers, whilst telling them to work harder.

[mazex]

I little doubt that BOB SOW will be completed. That said any project can be canned, but we know from periodic information that everything is full steam ahead especially since all the work on the Il-2 series has stopped.

I really hope that you are right. I remember the wait and agony when the news about Harpoon 4 started to thin out after 6 years that last time when they had showed to code to Ubisoft Romania in a last attempt to get it done. Then suddenly (but not that unexpected), the knife in the back of the project. I guess a lot of us still have a hard time falling asleep from time to time thinking of that and the promises from Ubisoft that it would be released - be sure (or similar)... Another thing that COULD happen (which would be worse than killing the project) is a press release from Ubisoft saying that SoW:BoB is now scheduled to be released on Xbox 360, PS3 and then PC a year later - with the new title "Tom Clancys Storm of War", telling that you may even use a joystick on the PC, but a gamepad is recommended ;)


/Mazex

[Chivas]

My guess at this stage if UBI pulled financial support the project would still see the light of day legally or illegally. Unless ofcourse Oleg has hit a technical wall.

[Feuerfalke]

BoB is a project that has simply gone far too long and sucked up far to much resources from the publishers and the developers to cancel the project now. Neither one could afford that and UBI is expecting to surpass the success of the IL2-series and they surely won't let this chance just pass.

Considering the competitors, I have no doubt that BoB is advanced beyond the tidbits of informations we have. Remember development started over 5 years ago, with more or less people working on it.
And the scan of the high detail WIP landscape taken from that Russian game-magazine I mentioned before, dates back to February 2006!


Btw, mazex, there is a Tom Clancy-Flight "Sim" Game planned to be released Q4 2008 ;)

[SlipBall]

My gut feeling...we will have our baby before Christmas

[Golf Pro]

Never mind bOb:sOw.

Is 4.09 still alive and kicking?

[mazex]

And the scan of the high detail WIP landscape taken from that Russian game-magazine I mentioned before, dates back to February 2006!


That's something I've missed - I tried a search for scan + magazine etc but could not find it - got link?

EDIT - thinking of it, is it that landscape with the river showing the wireframe mesh?



Btw, mazex, there is a Tom Clancy-Flight "Sim" Game planned to be released Q4 2008 ;)

I know - and I don't want another ;)

[Skarphol]

[QUOTE=Feuerfalke;41595]... to surpass the success of the IL2-series ...QUOTE]

This is a question totally beside topic of this thread, but;
Is the IL-2 series an economical sucsess?
Has there ever been released some sales figures for this game?
This is not some sort of retorical question, I just wonder.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is "The holy grail of WWII flight sims", but do the general public know?

Skarphol

[Feuerfalke]

Yeah, I was refering to the wireframe-model with the riverbed and I remember a statement, that the other screenshots still showed a modified IL2-engine, not the BoB-Landscape.

I don't know, though, what about these shots or the video for example, but I remember people making statements that the shores display 1:1 IL2 waves:
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g260/restranger/?action=view&current=cap028.jpg

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g260/restranger/?action=view&current=cap020.jpg

Not that IL2-landscape looks ugly... ;)


I don't know about the success of the IL2-series, but it was mentioned several times, that the number of sales exceeded Olegs and UBIs most daring dreams for this niche-software.

[Former_Older]

[QUOTE=Feuerfalke;41595]
There is no doubt in my mind that this is "The holy grail of WWII flight sims", but do the general public know?

Skarphol

Combat flight sims, perhaps ;)

But a better question is: why does the general public care?

How's this for a parallel:

I have been into old cars for almost 20 years. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars, bought cars, sold cars, built engines, suspensions, etc, restored lenses and instruments and body panels and chrome and whatnot and gone to shows and entered cars in shows and worked 12 hours on collector cars a day AFTER my 8 hour day job and researched and helped others and chased down original reference, and scoured junkyards for the elusive parts blah blah. I know going into this it would be expensive, time consuming...and not something most people cared about, but it was a passion.

Many people appreciated what I had done, and ohhhh'd and ahhhh'd over things I did, but they never actually got into the hobby- they registered that it was "cool", and then moved on to the things that they, personally, cared about

Same thing with combat flight sims. Plenty of people might think it's cool, but most of them just register the fact and then move on without getting involved

[Golf Pro]

I hadn't played a video game in like, 20 years, before I got into IL2. I thought I had matured beyond such things :rolleyes:. And I only got into it by accident. I was just buying a new laptop from a local store when I saw a boxed copy of the original IL-2 on a nearby shelf.

I'd always had a passing interest in WW2 aircraft, and the price was less than I was expecting, so I thought "what the hell....."

If I'd known I'd be still playing it 6 years later, spending lots of time thinking about it and talking to other people about it on the internet, I would probably have stayed well away......

It was only supposed to be 5 minutes of brainless fun.....

[Bearcat]

I hadn't played a video game in like, 20 years, before I got into IL2. I thought I had matured beyond such things :rolleyes:. And I only got into it by accident. I was just buying a new laptop from a local store when I saw a boxed copy of the original IL-2 on a nearby shelf.

I'd always had a passing interest in WW2 aircraft, and the price was less than I was expecting, so I thought "what the hell....."

If I'd known I'd be still playing it 6 years later, spending lots of time thinking about it and talking to other people about it on the internet, I would probably have stayed well away......

It was only supposed to be 5 minutes of brainless fun.....

LOL.. when I started simming i refused to spend more than $20 on a joysatick... now?

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/100_2686_0.JPG

You can't see the TIR.. but it is there...

[Ctrl E]

Feuerfalke - you mentioned the sequel to microsoft combat flight sim is being developed. is there any place i can see pics or vids of what it might look like? i made the mistake of it a while back. it was pretty basic compared to il2.

[Xiola]

Its EXTREMELY important we support Oleg if we dont want to lose his fantastic programming skills to the lure of the console money machine.

One day one idiot too many might just tip the scales so that he thinks, 'its just not worth it any more' and hes starts making arcade games for consoles that will make him a ton of money.

I hope this day never comes, but lets try hard NOT to make it happen.

I for one NEED Olegs fantastic WW2 sims to contine! :)

[Xiola]

Combat flight sims, perhaps ;)



Nope ALL flight sims ;)

[SlipBall]

Its EXTREMELY important we support Oleg if we dont want to lose his fantastic programming skills to the lure of the console money machine.

One day one idiot too many might just tip the scales so that he thinks, 'its just not worth it any more' and hes starts making arcade games for consoles that will make him a ton of money.

I hope this day never comes, but lets try hard NOT to make it happen.

I for one NEED Olegs fantastic WW2 sims to contine! :)



+1

[Jughead]

Its EXTREMELY important we support Oleg if we dont want to lose his fantastic programming skills to the lure of the console money machine.

One day one idiot too many might just tip the scales so that he thinks, 'its just not worth it any more' and hes starts making arcade games for consoles that will make him a ton of money.

I hope this day never comes, but lets try hard NOT to make it happen.

I for one NEED Olegs fantastic WW2 sims to contine! :)

I'll gladly support him when the opportunity presents itself.

[proton45]

Its EXTREMELY important we support Oleg if we dont want to lose his fantastic programming skills to the lure of the console money machine.

One day one idiot too many might just tip the scales so that he thinks, 'its just not worth it any more' and hes starts making arcade games for consoles that will make him a ton of money.

I hope this day never comes, but lets try hard NOT to make it happen.

I for one NEED Olegs fantastic WW2 sims to contine! :)


This is the only game that I would bother to support... Oleg is an artist.

His creation is more then just ones and zeros.

[choctaw111]

Its EXTREMELY important we support Oleg if we dont want to lose his fantastic programming skills to the lure of the console money machine.

One day one idiot too many might just tip the scales so that he thinks, 'its just not worth it any more' and hes starts making arcade games for consoles that will make him a ton of money.

I hope this day never comes, but lets try hard NOT to make it happen.

I for one NEED Olegs fantastic WW2 sims to contine! :)

Very good post. I absolutely agree and would go FAR out of my way to help in any way I possibly could to ensure his next sim's success.

[choctaw111]

LOL.. when I started simming i refused to spend more than $20 on a joysatick... now?

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/100_2686_0.JPG

You can't see the TIR.. but it is there...


I wish my desk was as clean as yours :)
I have so many pilots notes, maps, charts and other Il2 related things strewn about.

[Feuerfalke]

Feuerfalke - you mentioned the sequel to microsoft combat flight sim is being developed. is there any place i can see pics or vids of what it might look like? i made the mistake of it a while back. it was pretty basic compared to il2.

No, but that is, why I mentioned. There are a couple of flightsims being worked on right now, but you won't see ANY pictures soon, I guess. Not even daring to speak about WIP-videos and stuff. And when you consider some people calling BOB vaporware, because there is no info or no competitors, so Oleg has no right to hold back information, it really makes you wonder.

[Robert]

a bump a day will keep unecessary posts away.

[{adi}-luke]

Greetings folks,
I see a lot of rumors going around about SOW being dead, discontinued, taking out of webstores, etc...not only on this forum, others as well...

It is NOT dead, and one of the reason Oleg is not around is THE indication of that. They are extremely busy with development, working crazy hours, etc. Oleg mentioned to me that he did not forget about you people and that IF he has time, he will organize some kind of update in the nearest future.

The end :)

Dear Crazyivan

I believe that a new post by Oleg with news about development could delete this rumors.

Last post is from 2 months ago !

I think that Oleg should spend some minutes to keep alive interesting for SOW.

Thanks for answering.

[Feuerfalke]

Dear Crazyivan

I believe that a new post by Oleg with news about development could delete this rumors.

Last post is from 2 months ago !

I think that Oleg should spend some minutes to keep alive interesting for SOW.

Thanks for answering.


Considering the tension and how frequently people come here and check for news and post demands for news, because there are none, I think the interest for SoW couldn't be much higher ATM.

And again, Ivan posted that, because he is not bound that strictly to some rules, other people are, who probably signed a contract personally. ;)

[Golf Pro]

But in all fairness, it only takes like 2+ minutes for someone to say "we're progressing well, here's a screenshot".

We should of course give 1C plenty of leeway, but a change between being very communicative and being totally non-communicative is bound to raise suspicion.

I think just the occasional communication is plenty enough for most of us. Why is this so difficult?

[Chivas]

Maddox has given the many updates, screenshots, and stated all is full speed ahead at this point. With the latest news that there will be another update in a week or so. Not sure what else they can do or how people can expect more. I know I've checked the various forums twice a day for info on SOW since 2004. There is more info on SOW than any other WW2 prop combat sim in development bar none. Atleast the wait can now be measured in months rather than in years.

[proton45]

I would really love to see a 30 to 45 second video clip of a Spitfire (or any aeroplane frankly) being blasted apart by flak, AA and machine-gun as it flys along...it would speak volumes to how the damage model might look and feel.

AND I would love to see a 30 second video clip of Westminster Bridge or Piccadilly so we might truly understand the new depths of virtual life we will be fighting in...

These two clips would answer some questions for both "dogfighters" and "ground-pounders"...

(don't mind me I'm just dreaming...)

[Sunchaser]

Not to worry, IL2-BOB will be along soon anyway.

[Theshark888]

SOW might not be dead but I am curious as to how high on the priority list it is at 1C/Ubi? Sure it's still being worked on but by who, Oleg by himself?
2080 hours x 5.5 years = ??

Many of you think that Oleg is doing this as a hobby, it's business. If the project takes too long it will just get cut "no more good money after bad" no matter how much time has already been put into it.

[DKoor]

I agree with this PoV... everything has its limits.

[Chivas]

I have no doubt the game will be released in one form or another. In the end Oleg MAY be forced to release something less than he invisioned but it will be released. I'm also quite sure he and his team are hard at work to insure most if not all of their vision is realized. I would say there is a 0.5% chance of SOW ending up to be vaporware.

It was interesting reading the update on Fighter Ops at SimHq with the developer stating that there are many features being built into FO that he would prefer not to talk about at this time. Oleg and many other developers are keeping their features in house until the appropriate time.

[DKoor]

I also agree... seeing that they made a lot of work already, I'm sure we would have fun with SOW in its current state (judging by some SOW videos).

So... it's not too much if we ask for pre-alpha demo, now, is it:lol:?

[13th Hsqn Protos]

CrazyIvan is going to ream me on msn but ...........

...you guys need to get a grip, all this Oleg slurping doesn't do ANYTHING to motivate them. Only negative input works.

Fact is this 'vaporware' is waaaaaaaaaaaay behind schedule and all the excuse making is silly.

There have been countless 'release' dates and all of them have been bullshite. The only saving grace was that they were going to give us an 'incremental' upgrade and after MUCH pressure from people who actually care about the sim as opposed to all the Oleg baglickers they realized the virtue in creating something from the ground up.

Now lets see if they actually get the scaling, netcode and dedicated server, dynamic online campaign system and online browser/chat system right this time ..........

[Chivas]

It has nothing to do with backlicking. Its about showing apprieciation for years of hard work from a developer that has given his software for what amounts to peanuts for the rest of us. Then there are the ingrates who can only see aspects of the sim that doesn't meet their criteria. Well I suggest you break open your piggy bank and develop your own sim or become an investor in another group. And don't tell me you invested plenty in Oleg sims, those investments amount to shite.

[robtek]

If i hadn´t known what a "troll" is, after the post from 13th Hsqn Protos i know.

[Chivas]

I hear ya...but I couldn't help myself.

[crazyivan1970]

Once again... the difference between publishers and developers.. Developers will not take a second as suggested and say something or post something (screenshot, a movie, etc) without publishers authorization... And since SOW has more then one publisher it`s not two seconds anymore... just remember that. As someone mentioned here, this is not a hobby, it`s a business, so rules do apply. Hope you guys understand...

[Robert]

Once again... the difference between publishers and developers.. Developers will not take a second as suggested and say something or post something (screenshot, a movie, etc) without publishers authorization... And since SOW has more then one publisher it`s not two seconds anymore... just remember that. As someone mentioned here, this is not a hobby, it`s a business, so rules do apply. Hope you guys understand...

+1

[Feuerfalke]

Once again... the difference between publishers and developers.. Developers will not take a second as suggested and say something or post something (screenshot, a movie, etc) without publishers authorization... And since SOW has more then one publisher it`s not two seconds anymore... just remember that. As someone mentioned here, this is not a hobby, it`s a business, so rules do apply. Hope you guys understand...

Maybe they do, if somebody else than me keeps posting it... Considering how many flames I received for my posts, PM or replies, I can't believe so many people still don't know about the difference and the legal issues Oleg would run in, if he took his 2 minutes. And if he did, we would be pleased for 2 minutes, but Oleg risks a lot more. Just imagine UBI thinks Oleg disregards contracts and cancels all support for BoB and future products.

Considering that, it's getting harder and harder for me to understand, why everybody presses Oleg to post a screenshot or two and risk the death of the series that we all are waiting for, so much.

[HenFre]

Ok.. I think I understand why developers are not allowed to post updates as they want because they are bound by a contract with the publishers. But one thing I do not understand is the erratic way that updates appear?

At the beginning of this forum Oleg said, that he hoped that updates would come "every 2-3 weeks or so". I think it has been a little longer than that this time :-) Would it not be in a contract how often updates could be posted by the developers? And would a contract not contain what content was allowed to be showed? Or are contract not that precise and only specifie the rough outline of what is allowed?

And are developers not allowed to tell that it has limitations regarding updates put on them by the publishers?

Just curious to how it all works :-)

[Feuerfalke]

Ok.. I think I understand why developers are not allowed to post updates as they want because they are bound by a contract with the publishers. But one thing I do not understand is the erratic way that updates appear?

At the beginning of this forum Oleg said, that he hoped that updates would come "every 2-3 weeks or so". I think it has been a little longer than that this time :-) Would it not be in a contract how often updates could be posted by the developers? And would a contract not contain what content was allowed to be showed? Or are contract not that precise and only specifie the rough outline of what is allowed?

And are developers not allowed to tell that it has limitations regarding updates put on them by the publishers?

Just curious to how it all works :-)

AFAIK from Olegs statements and infact I already linked or quoted to most of them, UBI is having the control over the informations being released. Of course Oleg probably hoped to be able to post updates every 2-3 weeks and would like to do so, but the reason it doesn't happen is not due to the fact that he doesn't care, likes to torture us or stopped the project in the meanwhile.

No, it's most likely he even hoped for permission to post updates here, maybe especially with the reasoning, that 1C is publisher, too, and this is their board, but from the facts we have I guess this was a clear negative from UBI (again), at least concerning substantial news on the project until they officially announce the game, which they didn't do yet.

So, in a sense you are perfectly right. It very likely is in the contracts how updates are handled and as it was posted from official side on this forum: No official statements until UBI allows it. So the number and frequency of updates is ZERO.

And are developers not allowed to tell that it has limitations regarding updates put on them by the publishers?

1C already stated that it is that way, Oleg posted so before, too, so why should they keep complaining. It's the deal and at the moment UBI is the one giving the most money. And you usually don't bite the hand that feeds you by posting bad stuff about them or complaining about contracts you agreed upon before.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

It has nothing to do with backlicking. Its about showing apprieciation for years of hard work from a developer that has given his software for what amounts to peanuts for the rest of us. Then there are the ingrates who can only see aspects of the sim that doesn't meet their criteria. Well I suggest you break open your piggy bank and develop your own sim or become an investor in another group. And don't tell me you invested plenty in Oleg sims, those investments amount to shite.


A typical remark from you the chief Oleg apologizer. Stick to making crappy maps.

Wipe your chin you got some white stuff on it.

[Robert]

A typical remark from you the chief Oleg apologizer. Stick to making crappy maps.

Wipe your chin you got some white stuff on it.

Classy.

[proton45]

A typical remark from you the chief Oleg apologizer. Stick to making crappy maps.

Wipe your chin you got some white stuff on it.

wow, your cool...I could never be like you.

[Chivas]

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13th Hsqn Protos
A typical remark from you the chief Oleg apologizer. Stick to making crappy maps.

Wipe your chin you got some white stuff on it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And he's brave too. I know I'd be really scared if he said it to my face. LMFAO

[Feuerfalke]

That's what you get, when somebody fell asleep on his Tarzan-Comic again.

[Tbag]

Xtreme low level flying here?

[Oktoberfest]

I guess they'll stall and hit the deck soon....

[ElAurens]

We can only hope.

[HenFre]

And back to the topic of this thread :-)

Feuerfalke I think you are right, but it still does not answer why the updates has been so erratic in coming forward.

It is also curious that we have had two long waits for updates and when asked when they would appear, the answer was that they would be given within one week. This gives me the notion, that asking for updates will weald a result (offcourse within reason) And the key is also asking not demanding ;-)

I can understand that the Maddox team is working so hard, that they forget the updates and forum members. This also makes the erratic posting from them understandable..

[Feuerfalke]

And back to the topic of this thread :-)

Feuerfalke I think you are right, but it still does not answer why the updates has been so erratic in coming forward.

It is also curious that we have had two long waits for updates and when asked when they would appear, the answer was that they would be given within one week. This gives me the notion, that asking for updates will weald a result (offcourse within reason) And the key is also asking not demanding ;-)

I can understand that the Maddox team is working so hard, that they forget the updates and forum members. This also makes the erratic posting from them understandable..

They do not forget. And repeated asking does not insure answers. Oleg's dedication to the community does and if at all, the tone in this forum is rather contra-productive. Remember, for each wrong statement they made hoping to be able to give us something, further increases this bad behavior, thus of course makes it harder to decide to post any further statements.

My guess is, that Oleg posted this here, because it's older stuff and because it's non-relevant in terms of determining how detailed and complex BoB will really be.

[HFC_Dolphin]

Just my humble opinion.

Whoever has developed anything in a competitive environment knows that information of own and for competitors' products is vital.
For example, you may have a wonderful product, i.e. original IL-2, and luck of ideas for good campaigns. And all of a sudden you hear about BoB's campaign system and you find the "key" to complete your product and move forward, far away from any competitor.
We all get the idea, right?

I think this is the only reason we don't hear much about SoW:BoB and why not many people have access to this privileged information.
And unless we are close to late-beta, I wouldn't expect more information, not because it's difficult for Oleg and his team to give it, but rather because this would endanger the whole project and would leave it vulnerable to being copied by competitors.

Do I want SoW:BoB soonest possible? Heck yes!
Would I risk its succession just to get it earlier? Heck no!

Just my humble opinion.

[Tree_UK]

I agree Dolphin, i think the lack of info/updates tells us that the finished product is a long long way off.

[HenFre]

I understand the necessity for keeping the game innovations secret for as long as possible. So I would not mind if they only showed pictures of the different planes, vehicles and buildings. But for some reason they do not do that at a regular basis..

But still I am looking forward to this game because I know Oleg will bring us the best flightsimulator ever :-)

[proton45]

IMO: we would be hearing complaints from the development team if "BoB SoW" was vapor ware. I honestly believe that if the future of "BoB SoW" was the great "trash heap of computer dreams" that we would be hearing complaints from the people who have put their time and effort into development...

Everyone who is or has worked on "BoB SoW" has kept their mouths shut tight about what is going on...not a peep of descent has been heard from the development team. If SoW had been canceled I guarantee that we would have heard from some pissed off modeler or code monkey...computer geeks are notorious for venting their complaints on the internet, and if their was nothing at stake (if the game was never to see the light of day) someone somewhere would love to grab a little "internet fame" by being the first to "let the cat out of the bag"...

People will only unite behind a project (and keep their mouths shut) if they have something to gain (or if they are scared)...

[JG27CaptStubing]

If any of you who are complaining actually understood how things work between a developer and the publisher you would probable be pretty quiet right now.

The fact is nobody except for the developer and the publisher really knows what's going on. Add in there aren't many developers building on the PC let alone the monies made from a combat flight sim these days are tiny in comparison of other titles.

Right or wrong Combat Flight Sim titles aren't going to get the funding like a Crysis or COD4 for that matter. There is a reason why most of the flight sims we look forward to are actually not made in the States. Its a 3rd of the cost to develope offshore.

The good news is many developers and publishers want to get back into PC gaming as it's very lucrative and you don't have to pay heavy licensing fees to MS and Sony to run on their Platform. The problem stems from Piracy. There are a few titles that come to mind that where absolutely Ripped off and lost a ton of revenue because so many people downloaded it.

If piracy get addressed you will see more games for the PC. Right now PCs are outstripping some of the consoles in terms of performance.

My guess is we will see a change in 2 years.

[Chivas]

What we know:

BOB SOW started in approx 2004
The addons of Pacific Fighters, Pe-2, IL-2 1946, and free updates delayed full time work on SOW until atleast mid 2007.
There are always delays developing a new engine.
There are always delays when adding new features to an engine.
Oleg would like to have more updates but UBI has the final say with all info released.
UBI and other publishers have Valid reasons for keeping all info close to the chest. (they are not doing it to just to piss us off)
Oleg and others have mentioned that the team is working hard and are getting closer every day to the beta stage.
UBI will start an appropriate advertising campaign when the time is right. That is part of their contract as a publisher.

Speculation:

Since there are few monies coming in after the release of IL-2 1946 there is an urgency to complete SOW for the end of this year. I believe SOW will be release within a few months of the end of this year even if they have to delay a feature or two until the next addition to the series.

~Salute~
Chivas

[Chivas]

If any of you who are complaining actually understood how things work between a developer and the publisher you would probable be pretty quiet right now.

The fact is nobody except for the developer and the publisher really knows what's going on. Add in there aren't many developers building on the PC let alone the monies made from a combat flight sim these days are tiny in comparison of other titles.

Right or wrong Combat Flight Sim titles aren't going to get the funding like a Crysis or COD4 for that matter. There is a reason why most of the flight sims we look forward to are actually not made in the States. Its a 3rd of the cost to develope offshore.

The good news is many developers and publishers want to get back into PC gaming as it's very lucrative and you don't have to pay heavy licensing fees to MS and Sony to run on their Platform. The problem stems from Piracy. There are a few titles that come to mind that where absolutely Ripped off and lost a ton of revenue because so many people downloaded it.

If piracy get addressed you will see more games for the PC. Right now PCs are outstripping some of the consoles in terms of performance.

My guess is we will see a change in 2 years.

+1

[Tvrdi]

2008. 2009. 2010. ...who cares...thers a life beside foking sims

[Robert]

Though this may be improbable, lets not forget how many times BETAs of the IL2 patches were leaked prematurely. No idea who did the leaking.... whether it was an inside job close to developement or some other factor... but it did occur. So information may be even held closer to the vest than we imagine.

Add that in with all the publisher/developer/competitor things and it's no wonder info is scarce.

When something of consequence has ever come up and we the buying public needed to know, Oleg has always let us know. I have no doubt things are going forward. We'll get BoB soon enough. I myself am betting on a late 08 or early 09.

[Xiola]

A typical remark from you the chief Oleg apologizer. Stick to making crappy maps.

Wipe your chin you got some white stuff on it.

A typical remark from you, the chief IL2 d*ckhead. Why dont you just keep away and make your lame-ass remarks elsewhere.

I see you still havent made it past puberty...