Is this game anything like Heroes of Might and MAgic?

[lostn]

It looks very HOMM-like, and the original KB is what inspired HOMM, so I was wondering, is this a turn based strategy game with RPG elements? or is it an RPG with turn based gameplay (like japanese console RPGs)?

What game does it resemble most?

Also, does it support widescreen resolutions?

If the game has Starforce on it, I'm not buying, so please pressure the publisher to not use it. Securom is good enough.

[Daystar]

Yes, No, King's Bounty/HMM, thus yes, unknown, and unknown.

[Shega]

That is an RPG which turns to turn-based strategy when the battle starts, though that is certainly not a JRPG.
Widescreen is supported, and the security system will be depending on local publishers.

[Anatoly]

I would describe King's Bounty as an RPG with turn-based battles. It is more close to Final Fantasy rather than HoMM. What makes it similar to HoMM is setting and turn-based battles.

[myriac]

we just wait for it to be out in english as soon as possible. very hard to be patient at this time.:( we plead admin crew to lighten us.

[Imperial Dane]

I'd probably opt for the easiset answer and say this resembles an updated version of King's bounty the most :D But considering it is what lead to HoMM, you will find some similarites here and there. Dunno about the Jrpgs though.. personally i hate them.

[lostn]

How do you recruit troops? Do you go into a castle and buy them, ala HOMM?

The graphics engine used and perspective does not look very RPG-like. It looks like it was built as an RTS or TBS. KB's models have been designed to be viewed from a zoomed out perspective, which you would only see in a hack n slash (diablo-esque) RPG, rather than an ordinary RPG. This is interesting. To someone who doesn't know anything about the game, looking at the screenshots, they would mistake it for a strategy game, or more precisely, a HOMM clone. Especially so, if the hero can only cast spells and use abilities, but not attack or be attacked in combat.

You guys should have been given the rights to HOMM5 rather than Nival.

[Daystar]

And I am unanimous in that as well.

And yeah, I would say it is closest to...ooh, if you have ever played a heavily scripted AOM map, where you have one character that runs around doing stuff, and then turn based battles like H5 or Fantasy Wars, its a bit like that. With other things thrown in.

[Hingerson]

Yea I agree looking at the screen shots I would definitely think that it was more of a TBS then an RPG not that in my opinion that is a bad thing im still dying to play the game :) please lets make the release in june :-P

[phoenixreborn]

I remember some rpg's back in the days of Nintendo like that. Was it Ultima 4perhaps? There was one where you had a party walking around represented by one figure on the adventure map but fights went to a turn-based battlefield with all your party members.

Anyway I like the format.

[Imperial Dane]

In the end.. does it really matter ? It's King's Bounty: The legend ! Let's keep it at that, all these comparisons get boring in the long run. I'd rather see it as something unique than something like HoMM or some JRPG.
Not that HoMM is bad though, but i like it where it is :P

[Hingerson]

No it doesn't matter but its fun to talk about it im excited either way it certainly seems that it will be a unique game

[natasha]

No it doesn't matter but its fun to talk about it im excited either way it certainly seems that it will be a unique game

It is the not unique game, and rather remake Kings Bounty (1990).
http://www.zone.ee/kingsbounty/index.html
In the best traditions of classic game with a new design

[work4food]

it wud've been a remake if they only changed the appearance of the game..
but its just based on the world and has the common features with the original king's bounty, but anyways this is getting boring, just arguing about nothing really :)
so yeah in some way it deffinately is a unique game

[WannaLearnEnglish]

I am a big fan of HoMMV and playing the KB game (russian verison) now.

Since I've got some spare time and also desire to both exercise my English skills and talk a little bit about my favorite game of the moment, I would write an elaborate answer on subject.

Comments (and especially grammatical corrections) from native English speakers are highly welcome and certainly would serve as a stimilus to write more.

[WannaLearnEnglish]

1. Similarities between KB and HoMMV.

1.1. First of all, there are genetical ones. KB was here before HoMM series ... bla-bla-bla ... Everyone now knows that. :-)

1.2. Also, "fairy-tale" graphics and design. I consider them superior to HoMMV. But what is more important for me, they're very similar in spirit. Again, everyone saw these screenshots.

1.3. Now to the real stuff you guys do not know that much about. Battles.

Battles are ALMOST identical to HoMMV.

You also have a Hero and 5 stack of units. Hero cast spells, units hit the enemy stacks. Hero has spellbook and various abilities.

It is easier to explain minor differences from HoMMV. Here they are:

1. KB is hex-based.
2. You've got 5 stacks instead of 7 in HoMMV.
3. Number of units in one stack is limited by Hero's "Leadership".
4. However Computer may have any number of stacks/units per stack.
5. Initiative thing works like it was (I believe) in earlier HoMM games. There are Rounds. Every stack acts exactly once per round. Units with higher initiative may choose whether to act now or wait and act later in the round.

That is, if there are units with initiative 3,4,5 then first #5 acts or waits, then #4 acts or waits, then #3 acts. Then waited units act in reverse order. That is, #4 acts if it choosed to wait, and then #5 acts if it choosed to wait.

The system has interesting property, that units with highest initiative can act twice in a row. Very useful, hit and run away :-)

I personally like this "new-old" system more than HoMMV style. It is more predictable. So I can plan my Tactics for two-three rounds ahead ! :-)

6. Hero can cast his spells anytime, but only once per round. Or twice per round if he has certain skills. Also certain skills allow Hero to receive a little bit of extra Mana per Round.

7. The RAGE Box thing. Well, it is a MAJOR innovation that I will write about later. Maybe. Shortly, it is a kind of RAGE-based magic, as opposed to Mana-based Magic.

[WannaLearnEnglish]

2. Now the differences.

It is indeed a RPG.

2.1. You've got only ONE hero.

2.2. Your primary objective is to run about the map and do some "Quests". Search and destroy that bunch of bad guys, find these artifacts, help this guy to find his lost stuff and that guy to find a good wife. All kind of those stupid things a good "Knight" should do for living. That is for Money and Experience.

Some people like it and some do not and even find it stupid and boring.

The "strategy" component in KB is here only as long as there are many packs of monsters walking around the map, and all these monsters somehow do not let you pass through. Or own the stuff you need to get. So the solution. Hire a good army and smash them out.

2.3. That means that in fact there are no such thing as "Enemy Hero(s)". Formally, Enemy Heros are here, a lot of them, but they are completely static. It's better to say that there are "heroless" packs of monsters and "herowith" packs of monsters. In the BATTLE these heroes act like in HoMMV, cast spells etc. But they do not move around the map, do not hire units, do not upgrade their level. They're really just a part of monsterpacks, not real heros.

2.4. Castles.

Yes, you DO hire your units in the castles.

However, you do not OWN any. You do not build or upgrade anything there. Castles are something like 'Tavern' where you can hire some types of units. Artefacts and spells in limited amounts are also on sale there. When you fulfill quests, new Castles with new types of units become available. Sometimes these Quests are about to please Castle's owner, sometimes to kill or conquire him somehow.

2.5. Money ! VERY different from HoMMV.

No castles means no fixed income!

You earn your money very hard way, especially in the beginning. As trophies in the battles. As payment for Quest fulfillment. Money is really an issue in KB, and there are NO easy ways to earn it, like pressing "next" button in HoMMV.

I think that a person without good Battle Tactics skills would not cope with this issue. You see, bad tactics imply big unit losses. And your unit losses should be covered by battle's "reward money" (trophies) If your losses cost more than that trophey's money, you go bankrupt very soon.

A pecular thing is that "reward money" do NOT depend on ABSOLUTE strength of your Enemy, but on his RELATIVE strength to YOU at the moment of the battle!

Absolutely NOT LOGICAL , but forces anyone to consider his unit losses and his Battle Tactics skills very seriously.

If you attack a weak enemy you may suffer no losses, but get little money. If you attack a strong enemy, you get more money, but also suffer unit losses you have to pay for. You're well off only if your trophies are bigger than your unit losses. A thing called "Game Balance" by some. :-)

Although you can get some pocket money by doing more of those stupid side Quests, (There are only several main storyline Quests and a LOT of side Quests) its a good Battle Tactics skills that really helps.

===
All right. I would pause here. Would gladly answer any questions.

[KingImp]

Are there no stacks of gold or treasure that would contain money lying around to pick up either?

[WannaLearnEnglish]

Q: Are there no stacks of gold or treasure that would contain money lying around to pick up either?

A: Money is lying on the roads, but in very small amounts (say, 250gp). Treasure Chests contain a little bit more (say, 1000gp) but they're monster-guarded. Also all of these are only on newly-explored areas (exactly like in HoMMV) and are not renewable.

One pecular "real-time" thing is that you can in fact steal a guarded item without fighting. Just wait till monster who is supposed to guard the item, and does so by walking to and fro, moves somewhere sideways. Or play tease-and-run game: when a monster sees a player, he is eager to pursue him and forgets his guarding business for a while. But this "game designers-approved cheating" is a really time-consuming and boring process. And besides, as I mentioned, Chests are not very rich. You also can get some two grands or even less for doing a Quest. But a decent battle with about equal-strenght Monster would give me (at my current level) about 10 grands in trophies.

So really, to get rich you have to fight well :-) Maybe there are other ways, but I'm not aware of them.

[WannaLearnEnglish]

To give you the idea how much does the local money cost, a Peasant (Human level 1) costs 10gp, and a Bear (level 3) costs about 250gp.

BTW, many units are similar to HoMMV. Peasants are still simplest units, Skeletons are of two kinds: Archers and Fighters, Vampires still suck lifepoints, Fairies are level-one Elves, Elven Archers hit twice, Dragons are Black, Green, Skeleton and Red ones, etc.

However, overall balance is quite different. Low-level units are just as useful as high-levels, or even more useful. Remember that the size of your stack is limited by "Leadership". That is, you walk away with stack of 70 Peasants OR 5 Bears. So the best units in the game are probably low-level Fairies and Skeleton Archers.

Another difference is that you have to fight with the units you've got on sale. And units availability is half-randomly generated when the game starts. People say Giants are cool FAT unit, but I've got no Giants in nearby Castles, and have to cope with Bears as my Fatties.

So, although there is only one map, if you restart the game you would get a slightly different thing to play.

BTW, who said these's 20 hours gameplay time, he is wrong. Show me a man who can do it in 20 hours, a real Hero Genius :-) Probably if you know everything about storyline, unit abilities, spells availiable etc, you can do it in 20 hours. But I've read every spoiler I could find on Internet, and am playing for at least twice as much time now. I think I'm only about halfway through.

[Sol Invictus]

Thanks for the mini-review. I like the fact that the Player is forced to consider army losses and can't just throw his units into the meatgrinder without a thought. I am really looking forward to the game. Your English is quite good by the way.

[WannaLearnEnglish]

Thanx :-) Good, but not perfect. There ought to be errors, point some of them out.

3. Graphics: technical issues.

3.1. 3D Style.

Another difference from HoMMV is that in KB 3D is forced upon you. In HoMMV there was 3D camera, but I always turned on "classic camera" with 2D view from above and with the North in the proper position.

Here in KB there is no such thing as classic camera. You're FORCED to walk 3D, DOOM-style, be lost in directions, and do all those Chest-scrolls-stuff-searches real 3D-way. Build-in maps are rather sketchy. Game designers even do not allow one to look at the picture a little bit higher from above, helicopter-view camera style. To avoid us players to walk good old 2D style :-) Although would it be possible, it would speed-up the game process significantly.

Probably, game designers thought that it would embed one into proper "game athmosphere". Well, maybe they've right. Map is handmade and most of the building are unique. At first I was troubled, but eventually learned every corner of the map, and can give good "driving directions" (turn left, then turn right etc) to anyone. But again, these are RPG elements. To strategy-lover they're alien.

3.2. Just some Lyrics notes in between the lines :-)

There are some nice 3D-moments also. E.g. I remember how I was staying ON THE HILL near the Temple, somewhere near the entrance to the Graveyard. I just cheated one monster, won a hard battle against another one, but lost half of my tiny army. Enemen Guy Castle was clearly seen on the horizon DOWN THERE in the Valley. In spoilers I've heard there're some good units available. But quick monsters of "deadly" rank were moving galore in between. So I turned back, and postponed my visit to the guy. Which proved correct aftewards, since in MY map there were NO these cool units in that Castle, and I couldn't hire Skeleton Archers that were there instead, without Army Morale losses at that moment.

However the hill was not very high. I would STRONGLY ADVISE game designers to make good hills with REAL PANORAMIC views. A good hill with panoramic view would help me to accept this 3D enforcement stuff, otherwise I'm (frankly speaking) fed up with it.

3.3. Video demands

One of the consequences is that my 7600GS graphic card works well only in 1024x768 and low-profile settings. In fact, HoMMV in true 3D mode is also pretty video-demanding. But there 3D-walk was neither obligatory nor really necessary. Even if for some reason one wanted to walk around 3D-style, there were no running real-time monsters around, and low FPS was tolerable.

Here in KB not only moving Monsters, but also superb hand-made graphics of the game demands and deserves more. Luckily, time of insanely expensive 8800 series looks to be over, and NVIDIA-AMD war has produced a decent mid-priced product of almost equal power, 9600GT. That card (silent versions available !) I would probably buy, solely for KB reasons. The game picture looks significantly better in 1680x1050 (or one can rather say: "looks significantly worse in 1024x768") although FPS is too low to play on my current system.

As for STARFORCE, I had no problems with it. Never asked me for stupid letter "codes", never tried to connect to internet or something. All one needs is to keep the disk in tray. I've heard that STARFORCE protection misbehaves on old or unusual CD/DVD-drives. I'm using new ASUS SATA CD/DVD-drive, that is widely availiable for about 30 bucks or so.

3.4. Small Letters problem.

Letters are very, very small. After 4 hours of the game strained eyes are guaranteed. I understand that a good artist should have good attention to the details, and therefore is a natural-born petite lover. But I'm just a player and not only have to look at the artist's works, but also have to read what these story-tellers wrote. Also, I really READ all those hitpoint-damage information etc.

Dear KATAURI, please recall that these are NOT petite letters in WARRANCY contract ! I swear I wouldn't use them to suit the designers and claim damages :-) Just let me SEE them, not just look at them !

[KingImp]

Here's a question. Can you tell us what this unit is? (5th from left, 3rd from right)

http://www.kings-bounty.com/eng/img/unitsundead.jpg


Of all the unit screenshots, this is the one that most intrigued me.

[WannaLearnEnglish]

Can you tell us what this unit is? (5th from left, 3rd from right)


This alleged guy is a Black Knight of Undead Race.
Left to right: Skel Warrior, Ghost, Vampire (can turn into the Bat, and alter his parameters and picture), Necromancer, Black Knight, Skel Archer and Skel Dragon.

There are only 5 levels of units, compared to 7 levels in HoMMV. Also, in HoMMV it was almost mandatory to use higher-level units from one Castle/race. In KB you hire more or less whoever you want, or find available. There are only minor uncompatibilities, most of them are untolerance to undeads/demons.

I find it cool, player is fully responsible for the kinds of units he hires, and for the army balance he creates.

Levels of the units are to be understood quite differently in KB. In HoMMV there is a strict order, every race have two units of each level. It's due to the Races AND Castles system. In KB there are no proper Castles and therefore no such order. Each unit is unique and separate. His "level" attribute is mostly for reference. High level units usually have more intelligent abilities and more hitpoints, low level units are just mass-damage fighters that die easily.

In fact one can forget about "level" attribute completely. The only known usage is with some spells. E.g. "frighten" spell frightens, and frightened units do not attack units whose level is higher than theirs.

"Race" is also just a not very significant attribute. Consequently, different races have different numbers of units of each level, and many cool units are of no particular race (AKA neutrals).

One can hire all units of one race, and earn high morale, but it is a peculiar choice. A good choice for Paladin is to learn "tolerance" skill instead and hire undeads and demons to fight for his Holy Case :-) They may be evil in nature but good in fighting. Or Robbers(Marauders), since Paladins also need money. Or marry a frog and earn bonuses to Spiders and Snakes in your army. Just do not kiss this frog, one guy advises, she will turn pretty woman, yep, but where are you bonuses then? :-) Only very lame players play with all-humans :-) Is it a kind of humor from game designers? I dunno...

[phoenixreborn]

Only very lame players play with all-humans :-) Is it a kind of humor from game designers? I dunno...

But but, that's how I beat the original game...thanks for infos.

[lostn]

Thanks for the excellent review WannaLearnEnglish. That sheds a lot of light on the game.

[phoenixreborn]

Makes me want it.

KingImp that looks like a death knight or a hero or something like that.

[it-ogo]

As Wanna said it looks closest to HOMM series though player can not posess multiple heroes and realty like cities. So while HOMM is essentially an empire simulator, KB is a personal adventure of the protagonist. I think therefore they call it RPG rather then strategy. Personal statistics is different from HOMMs but not much more complicated and tends to universality.

My personal overall impression: very pleasant gameplay but completely one-time. There are nice hand-made maps, nice dialogs full of soft irony, many small nice ideas here and there still nothing revolutionary.

There is no sense to make random map generator because you can have a good strategy on random map while adventures should be hand-made only. The same is about multiplayer: no reason to do.

[WannaLearnEnglish]

OK guys, I did it! Pal/Normal/Verison 1.0 till mid-dwarves, then Patch 1.4 till the end.

Here are some corrections to my review notes:

1. Interface

Interface is good, but one haS //thanks Sol !// to know some hints that could be found (currently) either on internet or by trying. And NOT in manuals. E.g.

1.1. Pressing ALT in the battle mode is very important. Although it works differently in different patches.

1.2. R-Clicking on smiley in Unit information window shows Moral Bonuses. (at least in patch 1.4) (See also important moving hint at the end of this post)

2. Patches

Patches (fortunately or unfortunately) not only fix the bugs but also alter many other things that make the overall balance of the game SIGNIFICANTLY different patch-to-patch. As far as I understand, at this moment there are essentially THREE versions of the game:

2.1. Original version and early patches.

There was a "bug" in damage formula. Damage from low-levels to high-levels was a way too big, but was ABRUPTLY reduced with D-A>30.

This produced an interesting and INSANELY efficient tank-n-damagers tactics. Low level units were hit-dealers that exploited this "bug", attacking everyone with D lower than their A+30. A High-level unit, called a "tank", with his Defense (plus hero's defense as usual) bigger than 30+attack of enemy unit, was supposed to get every computer's units hits. This avoiding Computer to use this bug to his advantage.

It was interesting to see how some people understood this new reality directly from their battle experience, and adjusted their tactics accordingly. And yet some other people who refused to trust their eyes and trying to play "good old" HOMMV-style :-)

E.g. one guy noted that his Swordmen stack tanks well ONLY in "defend" mode. Now we know the answer: defend adds only 5-6 to defense, but in his case D-A was lower than 30, but became greater than 30 after 'defence' and altered the damage formula.

2.2. (Starting probably with patch 1.3.) Game with "damage formula bug" fixed. My Patch 1.4 belongs here, and its a different game.

2.3. They say Patch 1.5. alters game balance even further.

All money-gold balances issues are somewhat changed, chest's gold increased etc etc. High levels availability at the beginning are cut.

Also, they did a lot to make the game not that easy till the very end. People say that initially, after dwarves locations one could hire a packs of dragons-giants and play auto-battle mode till the end. Game designers probably took proper measures, since it did not worked for me in 1.4 patch.

3. Moral issues.

As far as I understand, Moral issues are still not set in their final form. All-humans Bonus line is commented in files, so there are no moral bonuses for all-humans. However there ARE bonuses for All-Dwarves and All-Elves.

There are only five dwarves units in the game and they form a kind of "preset melee squad" for players who do not want to make teams of their own.

Moral issues of Elves are more complicated. Here one can exerscise his team-making skills. But it's Elven (driad-based) teams that REALLY rule. Or you can make no-male teams for Inferno Invasions, so that local succubs do not mix up with your army's males :-) 'Agni ring' is probably a single most important artifact of the game.

There are also a kind of "robbers" subrace in human race and spiders-snakes and dragons subraces in neutrals.

So, contrary to what I said before, there actually ARE Race-n-Moral issues in this game, but they are not that simple, not given in manuals, are hand-made and may be subject to further changes.

4. Videocard

Game became SIGNIFICANTLY more robust with patch 1.4. I take my words on video back, 7600GS is reasonably playable at 1000x1600.

5. Bugs.

I had no 'crash' bugs in the beginning, neither intention to install any balance-altered patches.

However somehow in mid-game the game became increasingly crash-prone. I thought it's my hardware problem, since it was ok in the begining. But it was the patch that solved the problem.

Also, in many locations one can move through ONLY with arrow keys.

6. One last good hint (to my patch version though): do not spend your Magic crystals too easily. Unlike Runes, they are deficient till the very end of the game. Keep in mind that a useful third-level spell takes full 20 Crystals to learn. And also there are numerous spells of little or no use.

[Sol Invictus]

Thanks for the info.

I assume that you still want corrections to your English usage, so I will make you aware that the sentence after Interface; where you use Have; should be Has.

The Interface is good, but one has to know...

If you used a plural pronoun, such as We instead of One, then you could say:

The Interface is good, but players have to know... or The Interface is good, but players have(should) to be aware... or The Interface is good, but players need to know...

I will be the first to admit that I am not a a perfect English speaker; being from Eastern Kentucky; so I am very hesitant to give anyone advice on how to use English correctly, but I must say that you have an outstanding command of the English language. There are so many different ways to say the same things in English, that I don't know how anyone can master it; especially someone who is not a native speaker. Hopefully, I have not offered improper advice myself.:oops:

[HodgePodge]

… As for STARFORCE, I had no problems with it. Never asked me for stupid letter "codes", never tried to connect to internet or something. All one needs is to keep the disk in tray. I've heard that STARFORCE protection misbehaves on old or unusual CD/DVD-drives. I'm using new ASUS SATA CD/DVD-drive, that is widely availiable for about 30 bucks or so.
So King's Bounty is definitely using StarForce? I'm glad to know beforehand. Even though you didn't have any problems, I won't be buying this game because of StarForce.

[Imperial Dane]

Which might only be in Russia, starforce has an odd tendency to rarely reach Europe anymore..

[WannaLearnEnglish]

Thanks for the info.

I assume that you still want corrections to your English usage, ; where you use Have; should be Has.



Thanks a lot, Sol ! I especially appreciate your different versions.

In this way I can really cheat myself and pretend all this KB thing is not about waste of time but about Language Learning :-)

[Sol Invictus]

LOL Good spin.;)

[HodgePodge]

Which might only be in Russia, starforce has an odd tendency to rarely reach Europe anymore..
Well if that's the case, we'll have to wait and see.