Spitfire prop pitch and radiator question

[stugumby]

Greetings, im curious as to at what mark for the spitfire series do we loose the ability to manually adjust prop pitch and radiator settings. I have noticed in my 4.11 with hotfix unmodded install that i cant adjust pitch or radiator from mk8 onwards. In the small tail mk9 from late 42 and 43 online i asked on chat and was told to set a key, i have increase and decrease prop pitch set to my #11 and 12 on my logitech x3d and it works on all others i have tried. Is it a peculiar thing just with the mk8 and up? I was also unable to manually set radiator settings. I am also understanding that supercharger in these later model spits was alitude operated without pilot input so thats why i cant set those as well. Am i on the right track with my key settings as ive got # 9-10 as supercharger and #7-8 as fuel mix settings?

[NZtyphoon]

The Spitfire IX/XI and XVI and VIIs and VIIIs all had automatic radiator flaps controlled by temperature http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/spit/SPIT9MANUAL.pdf (scroll down to page 9 Part I Descriptive; 7 Engine coolant system) and the props were all constant-speed so the "pitch" control" on early Mk IXs was a speed control unit (page 12):

20. Propeller control
(i) On early aircraft the speed control lever (35) on the inboard side of
the throttle quadrant varies the governed r.p.m, from 3,000 down to
1,800.

(ii) On later aircraft the propeller speed control is interconnected with
the throttle control. The inter-connection is effected by a lever,
similar to the normal speed control lever, which is known as the
override lever. When this is pulled back to the stop in the quadrant
(the AUTOMATIC position) the r.p.m, are controlled by the
positioning of the throttle lever. When pushed fully forward to the
MAX. R.P.M, position it overrides the interconnection device and
r.p.m, are then governed at approximately 3,000. The override
lever can be used in the same way as the conventional propeller
speed control lever to enable the pilot to select higher r.p.m, than
those given by the interconnection.
It must be remembered that the interconnection is effected
only when the override lever is pulled back to the stop in the quadrant; indiscriminate use of the lever in any position forward of this stop will increase fuel consumption considerably.
At low altitudes (and at altitudes just above that at which high
gear is automatically engaged) the corresponding r.p.m, for a
given boost with the override lever set to AUTOMATIC are as
follows:
Boost (lb/.sq.in.) R.P.M.
Below +3 .. .. .. .. 1,800-1,850
At +7.. 2,270-2,370
At +12 (at the gate) .. .. 2,800-2,900
At +18 (throttle fully open) .. .. 3,000-3,050
(iii) A friction damping control (46) is fitted on the inboard side of
the throttle quadrant.

21. Supercharger controls.—The two-speed two-stage supercharger
automatically changes to high gear at about 21,000 feet
(14,000 feet on Merlin 66 and 11,000 feet on Merlin 266
installations) on the climb and back to low gear at about 19,000
feet (12,500 feet on Merlin 66 and 10,000 feet on Merlin 266
installations) on the descent. An override switch is fitted on the
instrument panel by means of which low gear may be selected at
any height. There is a pushbutton (42) on the electrical panel for
testing the gear change on the ground, and a red light (13) on the
instrument panel comes on when high-gear is engaged, on the
ground or in flight.

This set of notes is dated September 1946. I have a copy of the Mk VII/Mk VIII Pilot's Notes from December 1943 (AP 1565G and H) which does not describe an interconnected propeller speed control and throttle, so this feature was possibly introduced in these marks in 1944? Otherwise the radiator flaps were also fully automatic.

Constant speed props were introduced on Spitfire Mk Is in June/July 1940, while the automatic radiator flaps were introduced with the Mk IX; Spitfire Vs had manual controls, but I'll double check. Hope this helps.

[IceFire]

You can still manually control the RPM's via the prop pitch control in the Spitfire VIII and IX by switching from auto pitch to manual just like you would do in the Bf109 or FW190. The mechanisms are all different but this does let you reduce RPM manually in the Spitfire with automatic mode off.

[stugumby]

i am unable to do this in any spitfire past mk8 clipped boosted etc. Works fine in all previous marks. In controls section my complex engine managemnt switch is on, works fine in fw bf zero hurricane etc, just not in spit 8 and up.

[HundertneunGustav]

in the cockpit, use the control to switch autoproppitch off first.

[stugumby]

WOW, thanks for that tip, works fine now, learning something new daily with 4.11 and the help of the forums. toodles..

[GF_Mastiff]

in the cockpit, use the control to switch autoproppitch off first.

and were would that setting be?

I can not find that.

[stovak]

and were would that setting be?

You need to assign it in 'Controls'.

The setting is 'Prop Pitch Auto', it's an on/off toggle.
It's above the settings for Increase Prop Pitch and Decrease Prop Pitch.

In the settings.ini it's called 'StepAuto'

[GF_Mastiff]

You need to assign it in 'Controls'.

The setting is 'Prop Pitch Auto', it's an on/off toggle.
It's above the settings for Increase Prop Pitch and Decrease Prop Pitch.

In the settings.ini it's called 'StepAuto'

Stock 4.11.1
thank you found it, so thats were its been hiding all this time.

I tried it and the Spit F IXc still only does 470 KPH-290 MPH IAS @3000 I can not get the true wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-IX.html
IAS data speed of 380 MPH IAS. So the allied fighters are still porked. Should be at Sea level 336 MPH to 329 MPH.
So if your going to give the Blue side FW 190's and BF 109s there IAS where's the Red Allied stuff?

I'll run some more test with the equivalent BF109s and FW190s today.

BF109 G-2 1942; 470KPH-290 MPH @3000 radiator open or closed no difference
FW190 A-4 1942; 460-470 280 radiator open-290 MPH closed radiator @3000
FW190 A-4 1.42 1942; 470-90 KPH, 290 radiator open-300 MPH Closed Radiator @3000

[JtD]

Mastiff, for performance evaluation you need to look at TAS, from the yellow gauge. All the data you find is typically TAS, and if it is IAS it has so many errors to it that you cannot compare it to what you see in game.
Also, the Spitfires were tested radiators closed, which is something you can't do in game because it is an automated radiator. You'd need to fly on a very cold map, but then the performance would be wrong because of the coldness.

Generally, you can expect that planes with a recently reworked flight model have as accurate performance as possible in the game engine. It's more a matter of knowing which data was used for reference, there usually is a wide range available, and therefore the flight model can't match all of it.

[GF_Mastiff]

ah ok thanks for the information.