View Full Version : Is this an AI Error?

01-18-2012, 01:51 AM
I have been playing around for a few days with a mission and I have found this to be a little annoying.

No 3 flight does not join the formation like the other two flight do.

Initially I had left each flight at Average, but after some testing tried at Veteran and still the same. Each of the flights are "anchored" to my flight as I am the lead ship and as you can see Blue flight are not tightly formed as the rest of the squadron.

My apologies if this has been noted before. But I thought I'd mention it at least.

Also love the idea of the screenshot folder to find the 'grabs';)

01-18-2012, 02:22 AM
Maybe it's a measure to prevent the good old bomber AI demolition derby???

01-18-2012, 10:34 AM
We usually ask that you post the mission so we can try and address the particular issue(s).


01-18-2012, 10:42 PM
As requested here is the mission.

The flight in question during the whole mission does not close in.

It takes ~ 5mins for the whole group to form up.

You'll notice that waypoint 2 is still a 'normfly' waypoint as I intend using the map for further footage for a video clip and will be using the Drop On My Command order.

And I have noticed that having one flight out of position does not give a "nice drop pattern" for when the bombs hit. I would like it to look good ;)

Thanks guys.

01-19-2012, 01:35 AM
I have just been playing around with different A/C types and have noticed a few differences with where planes will form up or not at all.

I'll post some screenies soon of what I mean.

Or have a look at what happens when you change the A/C to an A-20C, or flight 1 = B-25J and flight 2,3,4 to B-24's or B-17's...

01-19-2012, 09:34 AM
I ran your mission in the FMB. When it started, I put my plane on Autopilot. Two of the bombers shortly crashed.

Then I took it upon myself to make a few changes to the mission. I did not change any of the lead flight's speed , altitude or waypoints. I simply gave the other flights their own waypoints.

Load my mission into the FMB and start it. Immediately engage the Autopilot on your plane. Then give your Squadron the command to Tighten Formation. (You can also experiment with changing formations as per the options.) Check out the formation in external view. (Speed the mission up as it takes a little time for them to form up.

See the two screenshots I took after everyone formed up. Enjoy.

*I don't have WinZip so I could not upload my version of the mission. Just take the text below and place it in a blank mis file to play it.

MAP Berlin/load.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1000.0
player B_8AF_091BG_401BS00
army 1
playerNum 0
Year 1940
Month 6
Day 15
WindDirection 0.0
WindSpeed 0.0
Gust 0
Turbulence 0
MDS_Radar_SetRadarToAdvanceMode 0
MDS_Radar_RefreshInterval 0
MDS_Radar_DisableVectoring 0
MDS_Radar_EnableTowerCommunications 1
MDS_Radar_ShipsAsRadar 0
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxRange 100
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MinHeight 100
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxHeight 5000
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxRange 25
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MinHeight 0
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxHeight 2000
MDS_Radar_ScoutsAsRadar 0
MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_MaxRange 2
MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_DeltaHeight 1500
MDS_Radar_HideUnpopulatedAirstripsFromMinimap 0
MDS_Radar_ScoutGroundObjects_Alpha 5
MDS_Radar_ScoutCompleteRecon 0
MDS_Misc_DisableAIRadioChatter 0
MDS_Misc_DespawnAIPlanesAfterLanding 1
MDS_Misc_HidePlayersCountOnHomeBase 0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat1_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat2_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat3_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
Bigship 1800
Ship 1800
Aeroanchored 1800
Artillery 1800
Searchlight 1800
Planes 4
Skill 2
Class air.B_25J1
Fuel 100
weapons 6x500lbs
NORMFLY 4219.13 63791.82 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 20983.12 49897.90 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 115291.73 25323.92 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 145533.38 22169.79 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 165117.07 25208.64 5000.00 320.00 &0
Planes 4
OnlyAI 1
Skill 2
Class air.B_25J1
Fuel 100
weapons default
NORMFLY 3759.86 63311.75 5000.00 320.00 &1
NORMFLY 20755.92 49489.88 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 115145.17 24973.41 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 145585.20 21769.20 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 165203.99 24804.77 5000.00 320.00 &0
Planes 4
OnlyAI 1
Skill 2
skin0 B-25j_us_metal.bmp
skin1 B-25j_us_metal.bmp
skin2 B-25j_us_metal.bmp
skin3 B-25j_us_metal.bmp
Class air.B_25J1
Fuel 100
weapons 6x500lbs
NORMFLY 4716.31 64388.73 5000.00 320.00 &1
NORMFLY 21080.42 50366.06 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 115351.77 25601.93 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 145503.24 22497.22 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 165041.99 25542.22 5000.00 320.00 &0
Planes 4
Skill 2
Class air.B_25J1
Fuel 100
weapons default
NORMFLY 3704.20 64284.38 5000.00 320.00 &1
NORMFLY 20686.86 50016.87 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 114986.31 25254.48 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 145229.60 22162.70 5000.00 320.00 &0
NORMFLY 164820.27 25170.16 5000.00 320.00 &0
0_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Flak18_88mm 2 117483.65 24720.66 570.00 0.0 0
7_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Flak18_88mm 2 112326.84 23901.17 570.00 0.0 0
8_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Flak18_88mm 2 111629.46 23267.25 570.00 0.0 0
10_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Flak18_88mm 2 116687.87 24434.61 570.00 0.0 0
12_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Flak18_88mm 2 115411.19 27039.17 570.00 0.0 0
13_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Flak18_88mm 2 114578.38 25453.28 570.00 0.0 0
14_Static vehicles.artillery.Artillery$Flak18_88mm 2 114199.62 25201.35 570.00 0.0 0
115375 25026 100 0
115687 25361 15 0
115858 24974 15 0


01-19-2012, 12:23 PM
Thanks for the mission mate and your help.

I have taken a ntrk and as you can see I am trying to use this mission to make a video clip, the first thing I noticed in this was the same as I had previously tried.

When on the bomb run the other flights then overtake the lead flight. Up until then the formation side of it is great.

And even when I set each waypoint target to the lead flight, bingo... flight number three jumps out of whack.

What I am trying to achieve is a nice tight formation. As my first screen shot shows that flight three should by all purposes be tighter in.

I'm keen to hear any other things that you can think of. And any other mission builders or TD would be great.


Ps: I run a free programme called Jzip http://www.jzip.com/

01-19-2012, 02:08 PM
I'll investigate this problem but it will have to wait a little, I understand that this might be a big problem for you but we have to deal with critical things first.


01-20-2012, 12:54 AM
Thanks for the reply mate,

I fully understand that other things are critical and will be a priority. In no way did I want to sound like I was 'tossing my frock' over the issue.

It was something that I had not noted previously and wanted to bring it to the IL2 communities notice so hopefully a work around could be found.

I am very grateful for all the hard work you TD boys put into keeping this great sim going and getting better.

Once again thanks for looking into the problem. and I look forward to the next release you guys make available to us.


01-24-2012, 01:44 AM
I checked this problem and it exists in older game versions too. We will have to rework the formations for 4.12 a little.

01-24-2012, 01:56 AM
Well, you learn some thing new every day ;)

I hadn't really noticed it at all in the earlier versions.

Thank you very much for taking the time to investigate it. It is very much appreciated.


01-24-2012, 01:15 PM
I haven't made any missions in a while now, but I used to like to use Quick Mission Tuner to build tight bomber formations. There is a feature where you can lay out the waypoints for first flight then "clone" the second flight staggered both horizontally and vertically from the first and so on and so forth. You could build an impressive formation with this for AI use, but as soon as a human takes over, or you attack it it kinda falls apart, as the AI cant handle being so close together under stress. I'll have to break out some of those old missions and see how they work in 4.11.

(granted all this won't help your problem, Smouch, I just wanted to impress everyone with my knowledge.) ;)