Requesting tactical help for LaGG-3

[Flanker1985]

Hi, guys. I just want to ask how can I go against BF-109s with LaGG-3. I use to fly MiG-3 in the earlier war, but that was before the 4.11. And now I don't have enough manuverability to dodge 109's fire when I have my radiator open. So I have to turn to LaGG-3 (since I fly Lavochkin in the middle and later wars).
But the thing is LaGG-3 had no speed nor energy MiGs have. 109 can always run away if they want to, and everytime I lose the chase because they climb, since I don't have the speed to catch them. The worsest part is their shoot and run tactics, they climb very high above me and dive to shoot me, if I do the defensive manuver, I will lost so much speed and I couldn't catch them after they finish their attack dive. And that would give them the opportunity to climb very high above me and do it again. And if I don't do the defensive manuver, I will most likely end up being shot down.

If you are an experience pilot and have some solutions, please help.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I'm neigher a good pilot. The only way I found, is a not very good one:

First, I brake from following the enemy, but I differ the direction only to max 40 degree, in continuing shallow climb, watching, that I don't get too slow in climb. If the enemy is again high and far away enough, he will much probably turn in for another attack and to get me from the side and behind. At the moment, when he start to turn, I turn towards him too, but not climbing, but stay level. I'm going for an headon. Only in the last phase I pull up abit, so I have enough energy to be stable enough for aiming.

Then its 50:50 and I just hope, I shoot better. Sometime, the enemy will not even go until the end and shoot, but will pull up a bit to fly over you - THEN you really have a chance.

I repeat, this is no good solution (and I doubt, that it finds its parallels in the history that often), but if you really wanna go for a hit, then it gives you a small chance.

[IceFire]

It's a loosing battle with the LaGG-3 for the most part. The biggest question right off the bat is ... which LaGG-3? Series 4, 29, 35, or 66?

In general the LaGG-3 is always at a disadvantage as it weighs more than a 109, has a less powerful engine, and will easily go down under sustained fire. The fuselage is pretty strong but the internal components are fairly weak.

The Series 35 is the first one that really has a solid chance with a beefed up engine and some aerodynamic improvements. The Series 66 is nearly on par with the 109s but it's still inferior. I would use the tried and tested methods of aerial combat: have a better position, spot the enemy before they do, engage aggressively and fire effective short bursts.

If you do get in close the LaGG does turn fairly well over short distances so you may be able to pull lead on a maneuvering 109. Don't follow him for too long as they still have the overall advantage in turn.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

P.S.: The earlier you divert your flight path from the enemy, the earlier will he turn in again and much probably not yet be very high and far away. There is a chance, that you will get him int oa turnfight with scissors, even if he will use the first chance of climbing away again, if he get in defence. Try it again and again, he will not gain endless energy by this.

[Guggy]

I despise the Lagg early war when I'm in a 109F2. It doesnt seem to take much visible damage compared to its comrades the MiG, Yak, and I16 even. Is that just due to an outdated damage texture model as I expect, or is it really that durable a plane?

[Treetop64]

The laminated plywood construction of the LaGG series makes it more flame and damage resistant than the Yakovlevs. The I-16s and MiGs had somewhat similar construction but were more vulnerable.

As for fighting 109s when in a LaGG, I say avoid the fight in the first place if you can. The LaGG suffers every disadvantage in a fight against 109-Fs and beyond, though if flown competently against a less-than-ace or veteran AI 109-Es you have a fighting chance. If you have the initial altitude advantage then make a diving attack, but unless you outnumber the enemy, get the hell outta there after your run! Don't stick around. Now that you actually have some chance of losing the AI and bugging out I would do that and try to survive.

[CWMV]

...avoid the fight in the first place if you can...If you have the initial altitude advantage then make a diving attack, but unless you outnumber the enemy, get the hell outta there after your run! Don't stick around. Now that you actually have some chance of losing the AI and bugging out I would do that and try to survive.

Only thing Id add is don't attack unless you have the advantage!
An equal fight is for losers!
:-P

[K_Freddie]

If you get your mindset right, you can dictate the combat even in an inferior plane, and with somebody on your 6.

First of all.. you're in a slower plane.
This generally means you can turn better - So you use this to your advantage.

The ME109 is coming from 'advantage' so you need to reduce this advantage.
You 'bait' him/her/AI by going into a gentle turn but keeping an eye on your attacker.
You turn in such a way that the deflection is just too much for the attacker to get a lead shot on you. By doing this you keep your speed up and bleed their speed.
If the attacker suddenly pulls extra lead to get a deflection shot, you just roll about 30 degrees and carry on turning - they'll miss by a mile, and they'll bleed more speed.

Now's the big point:
Practise rolling your a/c at max roll rate... the best way to do this is put the aircraft into a psuedo controllable stall condition. It bleeds speed but it will whip you around so fast onto his tail (any aircraft can do this) into a firing position as he/she/AI (I'm not desciminating against the AI :-P) passes. You usually have only 1 second window to get a good shot.

A human will cra,p themselves and give up after a few go's, but maybe an AI will be dumb as usual and suck in your shells.

There you go.. simple isn't it...:confused:

[K_Freddie]

If you're doing this online go down to ground level.... and play there.

YOU'RE MAD SAYS EVERYONE...

You're mad to stay at height, I'd say... Why??

Because if you go down, you're reducing your opponents advantage over other team mates that will arrive on the scene. You do not have advantage anyway, so by going down, your opponent now has to look over their shoulder, distracting their attention from you.
This has a big psychological impact making your opponent impatient and prone to making mistakes, which you can take advantage of..

Of course if more of their mates arrive .. you're in the poo

Take your chances..
;)

[TinyTim]

Lagg-3 vs 109F is a tough, tough situation even on equal terms, let alone him having initial advantage. If you are going against a skilled pilot online, you will go down great majority of cases. Quality difference between the planes is just too big. There really isn't much your Lagg-3 can do better than your opponent. Bf 109 is faster and more maneouverable, and as if that wouldn't be tough enough to deal with, it's also a better climber and better diver! Lagg has somewhat better firepower (IMO) and is more durable (again, IMO). This would make me go for a headon Russian roulette, I'm dead already anyway.

[WTE_Galway]

You could take a big gun Lagg 3 and learn to snipe :grin:

Or get down amongst the smoke stacks and hope they run into one ... at least you are negating the diving advantage ...

[Kittle]

At very low level, the Lagg is fairly fast for that era of fighters. That is the only thing you have going for you, so use it. 109 pilots like to use their climb rates, and for good reason, they climb like home sick angels. Elevator authority in the 109 is not nearly as good at high speed however, they handle like a brick. The Lagg does not, and with this alone you can keep him in your sights. You can not be sucked in to giving up your speed, as this is your life in the Lagg. Enter the fight with speed, and keep it. If you are attacked from a superior position, wait for him to close, break, and try to lure him into a rolling scissors. If he doesn't commit, put the nose down a few degrees, and get your speed up.

This is not easy, any of it. If you stick to your doctrine of keeping your speed up, you will get better in the Lagg. It's just like flying the Hellcat, just more difficult since the F6F enjoys a decent speed advantage over it's main opponent. You can't let him use is greatest strengths against you. Negate those as much as possible with your tactics, not your flying! ;)

[MrBaato]

Like Caspar said, divert your flight path from the enemy. It's pointless chasing a high 109, and being close you have less time to respond.

Fly away in a slow climb, if he's aggresive you might be able to bait him. Once he's going for you, enter a shallow dive (bringing your speed closer to his). Try to evade him with as little manouvering as possible, the more risk the better it works. For instance rolling and pulling negative G. Get him in a turnfight or a close overshoot.

If he's a coward, find another target ;)

[Jumoschwanz]

One fact about the AI is that it seems to easily I.D. the type of aircraft you are in and it will adjust it's tactics to suit. If your type of aircraft is quick enough so that the AI will not be able to easily use energy fighting against you, then it will resort to turning and burning, if you are however flying a slower aircraft against a much faster AI, then it will do the energy fighting thing and then indeed you can do what Caspar suggested.

As long as you fly towards a faster AI aircraft, it will fly away from you until it has gained enough altitude to turn back and make a fast firing pass on you. So if you make sure you are not going in the same direction as the AI after it makes it's pass, then instead of flying away it will quickly turn back after you.

You can exploit this to keep equal Energy with the AI. The best way is to be going head-on at it on its firing pass, make it miss with a small maneuver, then continue flying straight ahead and loop back at the AI, it will be doing the same thing at the same time. At a point suitable to you, you can either take a head on shot at it, or you can make it miss again and see if you can follow it closely enough to take a shot at it's tail.

IF you fly the 1941 Lagg vs. the 109F2 it will go into energy fighting mode, but if you fly the Mig3ud against it, it will be in turn and burn mode. I flew the 41' lagg vs. an ace 109f2 and got it down with a head-on shot, and then in the mig3 I got it as it crossed my path trying to turn and burn with me.

Online all bets are off because you will be up against such a wide variety of varying abilities. Online all you can do is assume that every enemy aircraft you come into contact with is going to be piloted by the very best. After a bit of sparring you can get an idea of your opponents abilities and tactics and adjust to suit!

[Flanker1985]

Wow!!! That's a lot of helpful suggestions!! Thanks!! I love you guys!!!!!!!!!:grin:

[JimmyBlonde]

Do like Jumoschwanz and co said.

Don't follow them, don't chase them, use every opportunity you get to increase the distance between you and them and climb when it's safe to keep energy states roughly even. Set up potshots at them and don't fixate, the cannon on the LaGG is your friend here.

The LaGG-3 runs out of tricks very quickly vs any maneuvering 109 so you have to keep your speed up, stay at arms length and try not to let them box you in. If you're not leaving a merge with more E than he has then you're in trouble.

In a 1vs1 you can beat a 109 in a Co E knife fight (Energy fight, you won't beat him in a sustained turning contest), even a human piloted one, the LaGG is a handy aircraft but it is much more difficult to manage than a 109 so refuse to engage where you can if things look bad and always be looking for an exit. Don't force a bad situation to become a tragic one.