[REL] 4.11m Guide

[daidalos.team]

Dear IL-2 fans,

As with our previous patch, we are releasing the Guide for 4.11m in advance, so you may get familiar with the upcoming features we have been working on for the last year. We are planning to release the patch within this holiday season.

For now we wish you all Merry Christmas!

4.11 Guide (pre-release version):

:arrow: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N1JF5RZX<< link broken

Updated link :arrow: http://www.mediafire.com/?9o3138015n9s2oa


Main Features
• 6DoF support with over 100 fixed cockpits
• AI improvements
• Improved radiator & overheat modeling
• Difficulty option changes
• Bomb fuzes
• Stationary plane spawning
• Reworked bomb damage
• Control surface & pilot's head positions transferred over network
• Mouse wheel zoom
• Bombing commands
• Additional waypoint parameters

New Flyable Planes
• PE-8
• TB-7 M40
• IL-4
• Fw 190 A-4 1.42 ATA
• Mosquito XVIII "Tse-Tse"

New AI Planes
• TBD-1
• Hs 123
• IK-3
• Cant Z 506B
• Ki-45 Kai Hei
• Ki-45 Kai Tei

New ground units
• Autoblindo AB 41
• Carro Armato L6-40
• Carro Armato 13-40
• Semovente 47-32
• Semovente 75-18-40
• Crusader III
• Several new groups and companies based on existing tanks & vehicles

AND MORE... (see the Guide for details)

[Fafnir_6]

Thanks and merry Christmas!

I don't suppose anyone at DT would be able to hazard a guess about release dates... Or what new planes or cockpits will be going into 4.12...

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[Aviar]

----AI plane's engine will overheat forcing AI to reduce throttle and open radiators.----

This has been long overdue.

Aviar

[Sita]

Nice)))

[harryRIEDL]

Thanks and merry Christmas

[SturmKreator]

when the patch come out? and merry Christmas!!! :grin::grin:

[Juri_JS]

Thanks for the guide DT.

As a DGen campaign builder I like to know what this means - "Added DGEN mission date workaround"

Could you give a more detailed explanation?

[redarrows2006]

Great news looking forward to the patch merry Christmas:)

[anikollag]

Cool :cool: Thanks and merry Christmas!
AI improvements looking Great!

[Faustnik]

Thank you for new info! :)

[Spinnetti]

Wow.. sounds great!

[wheelsup_cavu]

Very cool !!
Thank you for the awesome Christmas present. :cool:

Best wishes that the entire Daidalos Team have very Merry Christmas too.


Wheels

[MrBaato]

Amazing work, nice to see that some question&request are implemented

Thanks!

[_RAAF_Smouch]

Very nice read.

Thanks TD for all your work.

Merry Christmas to you guys and every reader here.

[Xilon_x]

oooooo tank you Daidalos Team you added italian tank and british tank for battle of Alamein fantastic i read this document PDF but i not find the FIAT G50 mod....propellor spinner for Italian G.50s ....and corrected venturi position.
tank you for important airplane CANT 506 this is cant 506 cokpit in italian museum
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Italy/images/Cant%20506_cockpit.jpg
tank you very much.............but still lacks many important pieces of Italian.
EXAMPLE italian navy class littorio
italian bunker
and varius italian sea plane imam ro43/44 or italian bomber savoia marchetti or br20 ecc.ec. missing ITALIAN FIGHTER class V ...reggiane 2005 missing fiat g55 ecc.ec.

[Lagarto]

I'm amazed (positively, of course) at what you did to AI. If all of it works as supposed, it's going to be a completely new offline experience. Thank you. I'll be happy to test it thoroughly and report back :)

[MicroWave]

Thanks for the guide DT.

As a DGen campaign builder I like to know what this means - "Added DGEN mission date workaround"

Could you give a more detailed explanation?

Since 4.10 it is possible to set the date of the mission in the mission file. This is used to enable some loadouts based on the date they were introduced (for example 20mm cannon on Bf 109 F-2). Since DGEN doesn't generate this on it's own, we devised a little workaround for this problem. Basically it parses the mission name generated by DGEN to get the date (DGEN format for name is ymmdd).

All other features depending on date of the mission (skin selection, etc.) should work too with DGEN generated missions.

[Xilon_x]

BUON NATALE --- DAIDALOS TEAM --- MERRY CHRISTMAS --- DT and all COMUNITY.
http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/savoia/s79_natale.jpg

[Hawker17]

Merry Christmas to all!

[Arrow]

I'm amazed (positively, of course) at what you did to AI. If all of it works as supposed, it's going to be a completely new offline experience. Thank you. I'll be happy to test it thoroughly and report back :)

That is probably the most important work DT has done for Il2. Offline flying carriers and missions will now play out completely different and much more realistic. Finally we have orders for flight to drop bombs on command and force your flight to leave bombs on when only a single enemy appears. Amazing stuff from DT!!!

[Majo]

Alive and Kicking!!!

Thank you all.

Salutes Majo.

[_RAAF_Furball]

Oh, this is indeed wonderful news !
Christmas present (your info) gratefully received.

Thank you and Merry Christmas !!

[Bolelas]

Thank you very much, nice christmass present! Just one question: the difficult seting to "no HUD messages" will still be available has it was posted before in one update?

[310_cibule]

Wow. I can't wait.


Improved radiator & overheat modeling
4.11 introduces a more detailed and more accurate radiator model. It is different from the
previous model in many ways, the main differences being:
• radiator settings now have an impact on both water/cylinder and oil temperature
• outside temperature now has an impact on oil temperatures
• engine rpm has a bigger impact
• impact of WEP is dependent on extra power generated
• mixture setting has an impact
• the density of the air has an impact
• aircraft speed has a bigger impact
• there is no longer a fixed period after which damage occurs in case of overheat
• introducing a random chance for damage depending on how strongly the engine
overheats
• type of damage is depending on if it is water/cylinder or oil overheating
You will generally find that the planes overheat a lot more, in particular if you are not on a cold
map in fast level flight. As a guideline, on hotter maps you can expect fighters to be able to
6 / 21
sustain about 70% power at 70% pitch without overheating radiators closed, for bombers it is
somewhat more. The values in many cases are reasonably close to real life maximum
continuous settings (please don't go by cockpit gauges, they aren't always accurate).
If you start a low speed full power dogfight with a closed radiator, you can expect the engine
to overheat rapidly and to get damaged quickly. War emergency power settings should
therefore only be used in an emergency, otherwise your plane might get destroyed without
your enemy even firing a shot.
To keep engine temperatures low, remember:
• use low rpm (reduce pitch), in particular oil temperature are sensitive towards rpm
• use low throttle settings (and avoid WEP)
• open the radiator
• fly faster (don't climb at too low speeds)
• use an as rich mixture as possible

Today? Tomorrow? Hurry up pls :)

[Xeno]

Hi,

List of changes is impressive. Almost like new sim :D. Thanks alot for all the things you've done.

Also I have a question, are there any plans for FOV fix for wide-screen users (fully adjustable FOV would be marvellous). All the new monitors build in at least last 4 years are 16:9 or 16:10 ratio, it would be nice if IL2 would reflect typical todays display setup.

Thanks alot once again.

[Bearcat]

This s FANTASTIC news. Personally I think that the addition of 6DoF even if it is more restricted is a very wise move. I would love to see at least one of Monguse's late war P-51s (D-25 or D-30) added to the stock roster of AC. Great stuff!! I cant wait to get this patch.

[ADorante]

I was so used to Il-2 being a 2DoF game that I spent my last seven-eight years using an old TrackIR 1 without any of that modernist Vector-Expansion (get of my lawn!). Until CloD came out and I needed a new Computer - and decided to add TIR 5 to the mix. And now I even get 6DoF in IL-2:1946 as added surprise -wonderful!

Glancing at the list in the guide I see why you refrained from publishing the patch too early and went for the mega-patch at holiday season (again). I'm not mad, I'm happy.

I just hope the dummie that I am will be ok and get accustomed soon with all the new realism settings.

Merry Christmas!

[daidalos.team]

Personally I think that the addition of 6DoF even if it is more restricted is a very wise move.

Body movements sideways, forward/backward & up/down is somewhat restricted, but the old head (camera) rotation is tweaked such way that it simulates human neck. This gives more camera movement and more natural feel.

This video should explain it better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luyogqwVTds&list=UUL8t_bJa42LMZhhwEwF5Eqw&index=1&feature=plcp

[BaronBonBaron]

Thanks guys!! :-P Merry Christmas!

[BadAim]

That looks very cool. This new patch looks impressive.

[Fafnir_6]

oooooo tank you Daidalos Team you added italian tank and british tank for battle of Alamein fantastic i read this document PDF but i not find the FIAT G50 mod....propellor spinner for Italian G.50s ....and corrected venturi position.
tank you for important airplane CANT 506 this is cant 506 cokpit in italian museum
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Italy/images/Cant%20506_cockpit.jpg
tank you very much.............but still lacks many important pieces of Italian.
EXAMPLE italian navy class littorio
italian bunker
and varius italian sea plane imam ro43/44 or italian bomber savoia marchetti or br20 ecc.ec. missing ITALIAN FIGHTER class V ...reggiane 2005 missing fiat g55 ecc.ec.

The rounded spinner on Italian G.50s is a feature of 4.10... I was one of a few people who asked to have it added (thanks DT). I'm not sure if it is selected if you choose Italy as the plane's owner or if it is linked by skin checksum like the gunsights on the D.XXI. Perhaps DT can elaborate?

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[Tropical Storm]

Amazing news! I just loved the AI changes, I was expecting this for so long... Thank you so much for your hard and good work TD team, Merry Christmas!

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

Absolutely amazing news! The contents in the read me are the most impressive to me so far!

[rfxcasey]

Excellent! This is great news. The 6DOF pilot head movement looks great but I think the most exciting part is the A.I. improvements which have been a long time coming.:-)

[Worf101]

Wow and thanks loads for all the attention and HARD WORK. Thanks in advance...

Worf

[steeldelete]

Thanks!

[Fall_Pink?]

daidalos,

Woah! Very impressive list of AI changes. Can't wait to try this ;-)

"AI planes will also try to hide in clouds in certain conditions" and "AI flights doesn't go into attack as soon as they spot the enemy anymore. Depending on the situation AI might try to avoid fight or try to improve their position before commencing the attack."

Yes...

Please also talk to 1C and CoD and its AI. We're going to need these for CoD as well...;-)

Rgs,
FP

[Deichwart]

Thank you!

[6BL Bird-Dog]

Great list of changes,looks like you guys have put a lot of time and effort into the update,Many Thanks.:grin:

[Azimech]

The improved overheating is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks DT!

[fruitbat]

Have to say, this sounds fantastic, great job guys, very impressive.:cool:

[Fenrir]

Wow, incredible list of changes there gentlemen. Before I even get my grubby sweaty little mits on the new patch can I congratulate you and thank you for your efforts; the amount of man hours that must have gone into this is, well, beyond my comprehension. TD, again, thankyou.

Here's hoping to a minimum of bugs and the continued longevity of a frankly fantastic game. S!

[RegRag1977]

TD you rock! I mean you really ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Treetop64]

"Prevented dead AI pilot from talking on radio"

Ok, now that is just creepy...:shock:

[MOG_Gunfighter]

Question....

I saw on the list of new flyable planes the Crusader III. Is that the F-8 Crusader? I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about planes, but apparently not lol....

MOG_Gunfighter

[Feathered_IV]

The Crusader tank. Not flyable however. ;)

[ECV56_Guevara]

Question....

I saw on the list of new flyable planes the Crusader III. Is that the F-8 Crusader? I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about planes, but apparently not lol....

MOG_Gunfighter
It s not in the flyable planes list, it´s a tank:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_tank

[GF_Mastiff]

Sounds still suck.

[Fenrir]

Sounds still suck.

Way to go Mastiff. No, really. I mean, your motivational efforts are quite something.

Next time you say "what the hell's wrong with this planet?" take a long hard look in the mirror chum. Might find a clue there.

[Treetop64]

GF_Mastiff's comment = Buzz Kill.

I'm sorry, but attitudes like that just kill me.

Like a bitter relative that receives gifts on Christmas that has to look past all the goodness of those gifts just to find what's wrong with them, then tells other about it.

The default sounds aren't as bad as many here purport. Could they be improved? Certainly. A half-decent sound card with good software, and good headphones - or at least a 2.1 speaker system - goes a long way in making the default sounds quite good in most cases, though.

Be thankful for what we got, which, in the case of IL-2 and other similarly in-depth games and sims, is an awful lot.

[JG27_PapaFly]

TY Team Daidalos!

Does that mean that even the later spit models will eventually overheat? Sounds almost too good to be true.Those birds have always had the most physics-defying overheat model so far.

Looking forward to the AI changes, too. The dumb AI have prevented me from ever flying an offline campaign.

Is there a chance you guys might introduce following changes in 4.13?

1) Pilot fatigue as a realism option. IL2 models stick forces, so calculating the amount of physical work a pilot puts into his flying should be feasible. Also high-g conditions require contraction of all muscles in pilot's legs, buttocks and abdomen, which should further drain his energy stores.

2) Realistic behaviour of fletner trim tabs, especially in combination with ffb sticks. Those of you who own Condor (THE soaring sim) or are RL pilots know what i mean.

3) Strengthen the arrestor cables on all carriers. They should stop the planes MUCH faster. There's lots of real ww2 footage showing arestor cable behaviour.

S!

[pupo162]

TY Team Daidalos!

Does that mean that even the later spit models will eventually overheat? Sounds almost too good to be true.Those birds have always had the most physics-defying overheat model so far.

Looking forward to the AI changes, too. The dumb AI have prevented me from ever flying an offline campaign.

Is there a chance you guys might introduce following changes in 4.13?

1) Pilot fatigue as a realism option. IL2 models stick forces, so calculating the amount of physical work a pilot puts into his flying should be feasible. Also high-g conditions require contraction of all muscles in pilot's legs, buttocks and abdomen, which should further drain his energy stores.

2) Realistic behaviour of fletner trim tabs, especially in combination with ffb sticks. Those of you who own Condor (THE soaring sim) or are RL pilots know what i mean.

3) Strengthen the arrestor cables on all carriers. They should stop the planes MUCH faster. There's lots of real ww2 footage showing arestor cable behaviour.

S!

regarding 1, that would be really hard to simulate, since it al ldepends a lot on the phisical condition of the pilot, and how one reacts to huigh g maneuvers, and flying overall. im agaisnt it.

aobut 2, are you telling me that condor actually has a realsitic trim behaviour? meaning that if im flying and i trim the plane the joysitck will compasate for the force accordingly?? WOW, i need to try that. thank you

[Daniël]

Looks nice! :cool: And on page 20 I read something about a Fokker campaign :)

[fruitbat]

GF_Mastiff's comment = Buzz Kill.

I'm sorry, but attitudes like that just kill me.

Like a bitter relative that receives gifts on Christmas that has to look past all the goodness of those gifts just to find what's wrong with them, then tells other about it.

The default sounds aren't as bad as many here purport. Could they be improved? Certainly. A half-decent sound card with good software, and good headphones - or at least a 2.1 speaker system - goes a long way in making the default sounds quite good in most cases, though.

Be thankful for what we got, which, in the case of IL-2 and other similarly in-depth games and sims, is an awful lot.

Look, i've got a really good sound system, top end creative card, really nice 5.1 sound system, and yes it does make the default sounds better, and internally they are just about bearable, externally they are however awful, and if you make vids like i do sometimes, having only 6 different external sounds for all the planes is pretty 1999.

Don't misunderstand me, i am over the moon by what we're getting, but it is a fact that the sounds suck.

However, since on balance it is very unlikely that a mod activator won't appear for 4.11 at some point its moot, since i'll be able to mod the sounds anyway, and i think that TD have concentrated on more important things anyway.

[Qpassa]

One suggestion, could you help in the development of Clod?
Great job

[JG27_PapaFly]

regarding 1, that would be really hard to simulate, since it al ldepends a lot on the phisical condition of the pilot, and how one reacts to huigh g maneuvers, and flying overall. im agaisnt it.

aobut 2, are you telling me that condor actually has a realsitic trim behaviour? meaning that if im flying and i trim the plane the joysitck will compasate for the force accordingly?? WOW, i need to try that. thank you

As a cancer researcher I know quite a bit about systems biology and physiology and in fact a really simple model would offer amazingly realistic pilot fatigue behaviour. With THAT modeled IL2FB would kick the s**t out of CoD even more than it already does.

Regarding trim: the condor sim is on the mark, giving me exactly what i experience in the real cockpit.

[MD_Titus]

Sounds still suck.

i fly modded, but i use default sounds, because no matter how good a canned recording is... it's still a canned recording.

the stock dynamic sound is, imo, a far better experience for actually playing the game rather than using it as a fly-by simulator.

cheers TD, looking forward to release.

[K_Freddie]

CLOD's a dead horse....
Rather support Team-D. ;)

[rollnloop]

Exciting update !

[NeroMoura]

Ah, yes, I have just one, quick question regarding 4.11.

Are we there yet? :grin:

Thank you guys on DT for all the hard work and all the hours of extra entertainment I will have.

On a more personal note, boy, I think I have been waiting for better AI ever since the original IL-2 was released. THANKS!

[Pursuivant]

tank you for important airplane CANT 506 this is cant 506 cokpit in italian museum

You need a LOT more than that to build a flyable aircraft in the game. Better to have pictures of the cockpit and all crew stations from all angles. Even better, provide blueprints and manuals - maintenance manuals, crew manuals and pilot manuals - for the plane.

If the plane carried equipment which is important in the game - like bomb sights - or unusual weapons - provide lots of pictures, blueprints and manuals for those things as well.


italian navy class littorio


I believe that this is being worked on as a mod/3rd party project.

italian bunker

I don't mean to be rude, but how did Italian bunkers/fortifications differ from those of other nations? If there was a significant difference, then perhaps they should be modeled. Otherwise, why bother?


varius italian sea plane imam ro43/44 or italian bomber savoia marchetti or br20 ecc.ec. missing ITALIAN FIGHTER class V ...reggiane 2005 missing fiat g55 ecc.ec.

TD and 3rd party modelers are filling in the gaps as fast as they can. Some of the planes you want are available as mods of various quality, some good some horrible.

Unless you can do professional level 3d modeling in 3ds Max or do java coding, the most useful thing you can do is provide as much information as possible about specific vehicles (ships, planes, tanks) you'd like to see in the game. The more technical and detailed the information, the better.

[Pursuivant]

As a cancer researcher I know quite a bit about systems biology and physiology and in fact a really simple model would offer amazingly realistic pilot fatigue behaviour.

I'm not nearly so well-trained, but I've studied a lot about human physiology under stress and I agree that it would be reasonably easy to add factors such as fatigue and hypoxia to the game.

A very simple method of modeling fatigue loss would be a simple "Fatigue Points" score. Under stress, such as combat or high-g maneuvers, the pilot would lose points at a set rate. Likewise, he'd recover "Fatigue Points" at some other rate when he's not exercising hard or fighting for his life - basically, it's the human equivalent of engine heating and cooling.

If Fatigue Points go below a certain level, he can't do certain things, such as hold high G turns.

More technically, as the human body is stressed and lactic acid builds up in the muscles, muscle strength goes down. It's not exactly a exponential curve, but it comes pretty close.

Just compare typical leg press strength against forces exerted on the rudder pedal during a turn of X g's and divide by the exponential function to determine if the pilot can hold a turn of X g's. Pretty simple stuff to add to the sim; not much more complex than the "hit locations" and bleeding injuries which TD introduced with the 4.10 patch.

Likewise, it would be really easy to measure progressive hypoxia above 10k feet/3 km, or sudden hypoxia which occurs above 20k feet/12 km using simple functions. These factors have been extremely well studied.

[Avimimus]

You know - usually I only agree with the plucky enthusiasm of Xilon's posts, but the Ro 43 is kinda attractive. Of course, I'd prefer a Dornier 22...

[Avimimus]

regarding 1, that would be really hard to simulate, since it al ldepends a lot on the phisical condition of the pilot, and how one reacts to huigh g maneuvers, and flying overall. im agaisnt it.

Isn't it already there (with regards to the AI "giving up" and the player blacking out more easily")?

Of course, improving the modelling would be wonderful (although taking into account the strain on the airframe created by rolling while pulling g's would be high priority).

[Pursuivant]

I finally read the 4.11 release notes. If everything works as advertised this will be the best patch yet. Bravo TD!

[addman]

OMG! Thanks TD! The "drop bomb" command would have been enough for me, the rest is just a big fat lovely bonus! Thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks!:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:

[aquila26]

Thank you for new info! :)

thank yoou and happy new year:-P

[pupo162]

I'm not nearly so well-trained, but I've studied a lot about human physiology under stress and I agree that it would be reasonably easy to add factors such as fatigue and hypoxia to the game.

A very simple method of modeling fatigue loss would be a simple "Fatigue Points" score. Under stress, such as combat or high-g maneuvers, the pilot would lose points at a set rate. Likewise, he'd recover "Fatigue Points" at some other rate when he's not exercising hard or fighting for his life - basically, it's the human equivalent of engine heating and cooling.

If Fatigue Points go below a certain level, he can't do certain things, such as hold high G turns.

More technically, as the human body is stressed and lactic acid builds up in the muscles, muscle strength goes down. It's not exactly a exponential curve, but it comes pretty close.

Just compare typical leg press strength against forces exerted on the rudder pedal during a turn of X g's and divide by the exponential function to determine if the pilot can hold a turn of X g's. Pretty simple stuff to add to the sim; not much more complex than the "hit locations" and bleeding injuries which TD introduced with the 4.10 patch.

Likewise, it would be really easy to measure progressive hypoxia above 10k feet/3 km, or sudden hypoxia which occurs above 20k feet/12 km using simple functions. These factors have been extremely well studied.

my opinion on this feature is pretty much the some off the one we got on Clod, regarding only having 2 hands.

for those who dont know COD has this feature were you can only do 2 things at the same time, as if you only had 2 hands. so , in a 109 its impossible to fly the plane (one hand for the stick) control throttle ( one hand at throttle) and trim the plane( third hand on trim).

The problem? its too counter intuitive. i used to have a g940, throttle on the big one and elevator trim on the small axis. so dispite the fact that i knew the rules of the game, in those heat moments in the middle of a dogfight where i did a trim set up and a power set up at the same time, suddenly my plane stopped working as i had tought it would, and htis was death.

My point, its hard to know what can or you cant do in every plane, especially in il2 1946 where you have a LOT of planes.

Stress is hard to measure. in my first days of flying this game i shaked my ass off ( literelly) when i had an enemy at my six. on my glory days, i was a cold blood killer, and used to watch tv while slaughtering my squadmates on internal campaign.

its ahrd to account for it. how do i know if im "stressed" in game? and why am i stressed? why am i tired? why do i know im tired?

simulation flying its tiresome on its own. after 5 mins of dogfight you are more prone to mistakes, you are more nervous, adrenaline is pumping, you have no fear of death, but in a campaign not playing for 1 hour is punishment enough.

about tired? i once flew a 3 hour patrol. for 3 hours i saw nothing. i was getting tired, the result was obvius. i wasnt checking my six, i was flying in a shamefull manner, and when i got into a dogfight i was so anxiusto kill that guy, i never toguht the stuff i usually think ( is he alone? whats is plane? cna i win? etc )... no i was so tired that i jumped right on him, lost lots of energy, did turn and burn with a plane with superior abilities.... but the other pilot was tired too, and i got the best of him.

other short story. regarding fatigue on simualtion vs real life. waths your patience to pick up a plane and fly around with it? and how aobut in real life? i did 1 hour flights in real life. obviosly we didnt sjhoot anithing down. we did some loopings barrel rolls and a split S from time to time. but flying virtully im bored in 10 mins of no action, speacilly if i know that there isnt going to be one. real life flying is far less tiresome.

So. my thougths about this is simple. how do you measure something like fatigue and stress without becoming counter intuitive?

[Pershing]

DS devicelink
"Dedicated server has additional readouts now. This is intended as interface for 3rd party
applications which want to read position of units in real time. Please see devicelink.txt for more
information.
This feature works on dedicated server only during network play and is released as
undocumented"


Am I right - insted of elemenating any posibility to use unathorized radar-software, DT is easing this? (sorry for my English)

[RegRag1977]

my opinion on this feature is pretty much the some off the one we got on Clod, regarding only having 2 hands.

for those who dont know COD has this feature were you can only do 2 things at the same time, as if you only had 2 hands. so , in a 109 its impossible to fly the plane (one hand for the stick) control throttle ( one hand at throttle) and trim the plane( third hand on trim).

The problem? its too counter intuitive. i used to have a g940, throttle on the big one and elevator trim on the small axis. so dispite the fact that i knew the rules of the game, in those heat moments in the middle of a dogfight where i did a trim set up and a power set up at the same time, suddenly my plane stopped working as i had tought it would, and htis was death.



I for one want this option for IL2 too, it may be counter intuitive as you say, but intuitivness is not what i am looking for in a WW2 sim. Using too many axis in the same time is just not realistic at all when it comes to WW2 air combat anyway: it is not a F1 racing sim, but a WW2 sim. I am all for such an option in IL2, along with pilot fatigue as described by Pursuivant.

Of course all this should come as difficulty options on the realism board, so that people that still want to play the old way can have their fun too :)

BTW guns jamming would be so nice too!

[RegRag1977]

I'm not nearly so well-trained, but I've studied a lot about human physiology under stress and I agree that it would be reasonably easy to add factors such as fatigue and hypoxia to the game.

A very simple method of modeling fatigue loss would be a simple "Fatigue Points" score. Under stress, such as combat or high-g maneuvers, the pilot would lose points at a set rate. Likewise, he'd recover "Fatigue Points" at some other rate when he's not exercising hard or fighting for his life - basically, it's the human equivalent of engine heating and cooling.

If Fatigue Points go below a certain level, he can't do certain things, such as hold high G turns.

More technically, as the human body is stressed and lactic acid builds up in the muscles, muscle strength goes down. It's not exactly a exponential curve, but it comes pretty close.

Just compare typical leg press strength against forces exerted on the rudder pedal during a turn of X g's and divide by the exponential function to determine if the pilot can hold a turn of X g's. Pretty simple stuff to add to the sim; not much more complex than the "hit locations" and bleeding injuries which TD introduced with the 4.10 patch.

Likewise, it would be really easy to measure progressive hypoxia above 10k feet/3 km, or sudden hypoxia which occurs above 20k feet/12 km using simple functions. These factors have been extremely well studied.

That would indeed rock!

[Adhocrat]

I for one want this option for IL2 too, it may be counter intuitive as you say, but intuitivness is not what i am looking for in a WW2 sim. Using too many axis in the same time is just not realistic at all when it comes to WW2 air combat anyway: it is not a F1 racing sim, but a WW2 sim. I am all for such an option in IL2, along with pilot fatigue as described by Pursuivant.

Of course all this should come as difficulty options on the realism board, so that people that still want to play the old way can have their fun too :)

BTW guns jamming would be so nice too!

I remember being burned by Condor with this feature. In Condor, when you extend the landing gear, you can see the pilot figure take his right hand off the stick (leaving his left hand on his lap), and operate the undercarriage lever. In this time your joystick is inactive. Not exactly what you want when you're in a very steep final turn! When I flew real retractable-undercarriage gliders I was told to keep my right hand on the stick and use my left hand to operate the undercarriage. Usually it's operated by a lever on the right side of the cockpit which directly extends the single retractable wheel.

[LesniHU]

DS devicelink
"Dedicated server has additional readouts now. This is intended as interface for 3rd party
applications which want to read position of units in real time. Please see devicelink.txt for more
information.
This feature works on dedicated server only during network play and is released as
undocumented"

Am I right - insted of elemenating any posibility to use unathorized radar-software, DT is easing this? (sorry for my English)
No.
You will be able to use it: if you are playing single player game; if playing track; if you are running dedicated server
You will not be able to read such data from: any MP client (does not matter if you are connected to dedicated server or normal host); normal game running as multiplayer host

[FC99]

Is there a chance you guys might introduce following changes in 4.13?

1) Pilot fatigue as a realism option. IL2 models stick forces, so calculating the amount of physical work a pilot puts into his flying should be feasible. Also high-g conditions require contraction of all muscles in pilot's legs, buttocks and abdomen, which should further drain his energy stores.

We are split on this matter, I tried simple fatigue model and I liked it but some DT members expressed some doubts about fatigue in game so this is something worth discussion which would include whole community, especially experienced RL pilots. ( They are split on this too as far as I know :-P)

[Luno13]

I support the idea, but it really depends on how you fly the game. I like long patrols and I've flown multiple-hour sorties without time compression. Mentally, one is tired enough after that. One ends up making poor decisions and maneuvers lazily.

Fatigue modeling would really only affect those used to quick TnB action in sorties lasting under ten minutes. Furthermore, everyone is different, and applying the same fatigue model to every pilot might cause an uproar among those who believe they're stronger :cool: Physical fatigue relates to mental fatigue, and flying will tire you both ways, but it's not always the case in a computer game. Putting an alert mind (player) into a fatigued body (sim pilot) will probably just induce frustration.

But if it's an option, why not?

A hypoxia model would be cool, but it would require modeling of some O2 systems. Pilots had to check their masks for ice buildup and could squeeze the hoses to test if oxygen was flowing. In Il-2, none of the O2 guages are even functional, just static eye-candy. O2 systems would also need a DM, and this might be even more complicated in pressurized aircraft (the entire cockpit skin would need hit-points, I imagine).

In terms of latent stresses on pilots and aircraft, it's my opinion that it would be more important to see some effects of accumulated damage to airframes, engines, and weapons as well as random failures. With Dgen under revision, it would be great to see something like historical dates and theatres affecting probability of failure as well as how the plane is handled from mission to mission (ie G-force stress on airframe accumulates throughout a career). It won't be popular to everyone, but again, it could become an option.

One member posted a while ago, either here or in the Clod forum, that because aircraft performance could vary depending on manufacturing conditions, that aspects of performance such as top speed, G limit, maneuverability, etc should be randomly assigned to within about a 5% margin of accepted performance figures. One mission you could be flying a top-shape hot-rod, and the next you could be assigned to the squadron beater, and not really know how the plane will behave until you fly it. It could make things interesting and possibly change the scope of "this plane should always be better than the other" discussions.

[Pursuivant]

We are split on this matter, I tried simple fatigue model and I liked it but some DT members expressed some doubts about fatigue in game

So, why not just have an option in the difficulty settings menu which allows you to turn pilot fatigue off?

Of course, I can see the skeptics point. A simple model for fatigue might not be realistic, since it doesn't take factors such as strength, physical conditioning, g-force on the body, and stress into account.

[HarryM]

It's probably a lot of work for something that a lot of people are not sure about, as opposed to univerally good things like improved AI, more planes, etc.

[Aviar]

I would only be in favor of a pilot fatigue feature if it also applied to the AI. It's bad enough the AI can fly on full power forever without overheating. We don't need any more 'cheats' for the AI.

Aviar

[Lagarto]

I would only be in favor of a pilot fatigue feature if it also applied to the AI. It's bad enough the AI can fly on full power forever without overheating. We don't need any more 'cheats' for the AI.

Couldn't agree more! AI's performance should also be limited by the blacking-out factor. It would finally put an end to these unrealistically violent, very high G maneuvers that AI is now capable of.

[ECV56_Guevara]

Hey DT this patch (4.11) got some features really incredible. Some of it wich I dreamed about. I remember when I get into the FMB world, posting in UBI asking for the static plane skin change n...no way, was the answer! today, will be possible. Thanks.

For the 4.12 is there a roadmap?
The features of Airborne radar and triggers are still in development? Can you tell us something more about it? Thanks a lot, and happy new year.

[Pursuivant]

One member posted a while ago, either here or in the Clod forum, that because aircraft performance could vary depending on manufacturing conditions, that aspects of performance such as top speed, G limit, maneuverability, etc should be randomly assigned to within about a 5% margin of accepted performance figures.

That might have been me, although I'm sure I'm not the only person to have thought of it.

Being able to downgrade a plane's performance by up to ~20% or uprate it by ~5-10% would shut up most of the "chart wars" and would eliminate many mods which purport to "fix" a particular plane's FM.

More practically, it would model factors such as manufacturing quality, wear and tear, and higher octane fuel.

[pupo162]

That might have been me, although I'm sure I'm not the only person to have thought of it.

Being able to downgrade a plane's performance by up to ~20% or uprate it by ~5-10% would shut up most of the "chart wars" and would eliminate many mods which purport to "fix" a particular plane's FM.

More practically, it would model factors such as manufacturing quality, wear and tear, and higher octane fuel.


a 20% downgrade is absolutly abusive. that would be flying a p51 without a tail section. thats loosing 120 km/h on top speed

i think this should be a difficulty option, and should be editable by mission creator. soemthing like a "plane quality" bar in the main base. if you put it 100% the players who spawn in that base get 100% performing planes. if the missio nmaker lowers that option, some planes start to get mechanical problems, and loosing sped, turn rate and such. evnetually at 0%, there should be a 100% chance you got a bad plane ( 10% speed loss at maximum) and a 50% of mechanical / weapons failure in a 45 min flight.

[Lagarto]

There are so many other interesting and less controversial features waiting to be incorporated... wouldn't that whole 'fatigue' thing be a waste of valuable resources? :) Anyway, I don't see much point in it.

[Tempest123]

Holy cow, you guys kept a lot of stuff under wraps :) This will be awesome, that testse mossie is getting its own campaign. Cant wait to try some of my missions with the new AI.

[Maori]

Being able to downgrade a plane's performance by up to ~20% or uprate it by ~5-10% would shut up most of the "chart wars" and would eliminate many mods which purport to "fix" a particular plane's FM.

It seems from from this that you don't have a proper view of what FM "modding" is about

An upgrade/downgrade does not make an FM more convicing regarding specific behavioural properties of plane in flight.

Sometimes it is really just about correcting obvious typos...

What about mistakes like a plane using the wrong engines? upgrade or down grade all you want, it is still a mistake.

Take a dive bomber whose dive brakes do not have any effect (just eyecandy) because a typo in the FM? downgrade/upgrade all you want, it won't fix the problem.

What about 2 variants of P-39 in which one has fuel tanks removed to get it ligther, but in game has the weigth & fuel reduction inverted (the ligther variant is actually heavier than the other one)

But sometmes it is about emphazising certain properties over others (say acceleration vs top speed), ie about subjective criteria on what is more important to capture the essence of an aircraft personality.

It is not about "upgrading" and "downgrading"... FMs are not THAT simple. A plane's behaviour is not a linear thing and requires making hard choices.

[Luno13]

More practically, it would model factors such as manufacturing quality, wear and tear, and higher octane fuel.


Selectable fuel grades would also be a good idea.

It seems from from this that you don't have a proper view of what FM "modding" is about

An upgrade/downgrade does not make an FM more convicing regarding specific behavioural properties of plane in flight.

Sometimes it is really just about correcting obvious typos...

What about mistakes like a plane using the wrong engines? upgrade or down grade all you want, it is still a mistake.


This is taken as granted, and it's not what we're talking about.

Sometimes performance figures vary across a wide variety of testing circumstances, and each plane can behave slightly differently. It's impossible to make a sim that is 100% correct in terms of top speed, break-up speed, g-limits, ability to absorb damage, etc. So why not add a bit of variability so that "X is actually 5kph faster than Y and thus is intentionally porked" discussions are a thing of the past. Taking into account the hurdles of wartime production and logistics could make a campaign really interesting.

[Maori]

This is taken as granted, and it's not what we're talking about.

Maybe, but Pursuivant was suggesting that such updrade/downgrade option would eliminate the need for most FM modding.

Just pointing out that this is not really true.

[Pursuivant]

Maori makes a good point that there's more to FM than just improving or degrading performance across the board. The ability to alter FM within certain parameters wouldn't just be top speed, but also things like stall speed, loaded weight, G-stress, turn radius, engine overheat time and a host of other factors.

When I proposed the -20%/+10% figure, I pulled it out of thin air; actual changes to parameters would have to be left up to those who know a lot more about aerodynamics and aviation history.

The idea is that serious reductions to performance would would represent a really beat up plane and/or a plane flying with really poor fuel. They should rightly be very rare. They'd represent things like the AVG's P-40/Hawk 81s towards the end of their service life, the F4Fs of the "Cactus Air Force" after a few months of hard use on Guadacanal, or some of the really poorly built Soviet, Japanese or Luftwaffe airframes.

Slight bonuses over nominal performance would represent factory fresh planes with souped up engines, extra weight removed, fancy wax jobs and the sort of stuff you get on racing planes, not combat aircraft. Souped up combat aircraft did appear occasionally, especially for aces, high ranking officers, factory test planes and/or propaganda purposes.

[JG26_EZ]

S~

Does anyone know what the average time span of the "Holiday Season" is?
(From which day to which? Dec. 24th? -->________? )

Oh, and btw.. In patch 4.37, can we please have the random need to urinate,
sneeze or cough added? And while you're at it, if the AI could have the urge
to scratch "this or that" while having me in their sights from time to time, that
would be nice too, or maybe a "light victory cigar" button, either that or a pony.
:mrgreen: ^ Please.. Please realize I am just joking ^ :mrgreen:

Thanks for the info/teasing us worse than the strippers did when we were 18 TD.

Cheers
EZ

*Edit*
D'oh! Just read this after I posted this..
Well sorry guys. Its not going to come today or tomorrow. There was a stepback in our plan for the release due to a few late and ugly bugs, found in the last minute, so to speak. Its not solved yet. We'll release ASAP.

[FrankB]

S~
Does anyone know what the average time span of the "Holiday Season" is?
(From which day to which? Dec. 24th? -->________? )


I was wondering that too, but since this is russian game, and in these eastern countries are Christmas celebrated on 7th Jan, we might be quite close ;)

[SPITACE]

what cockpits are fixed in the 100 fixed cockpits update in 4 .11 :|

[fruitbat]

what cockpits are fixed in the 100 fixed cockpits update in 4 .11 :|

The ones that needed it.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Haha, you expect a list now? :-D

[pupo162]

Haha, you expect a list now? :-D

well, ill refrase that to my interests, are you sure you mean 100 cockpits and not 100 planes? becosue some planes share cockpit :grin:

jezuuuuus. cant wait for this to come out

[MicroWave]

well, ill refrase that to my interests, are you sure you mean 100 cockpits and not 100 planes? becosue some planes share cockpit :grin:

jezuuuuus. cant wait for this to come out

149 cockpits were "touched" in this release . Granted, not all is 6DoF related.
Additionally, some were changed from the code and not in the 3d model (mainly default camera position).

List of cockpit 3d models "tampered with" in this release:
A-20C
A-20G
A6M2
A6M2-N
A6M5a
A6M5b
A6M5c
A6M7_62
A6M7_63
Ar-234B-2
B-25J
B-339
BeaufighterMk21
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109F-2
Bf-109G-10
Bf-109G-14
Bf-109G-2
Bf-109G-6Early
Bf-109G-6Late
Bf-109K-4
Bf-109Z
Bf-110G
BI-1
CR42
D3A1
Do-335A-0
Do-335V-13
F2A-1
F2A-2
F4F-3
F4F-4
F4U-1
F4U-1A
F6F-3
F6F-5
FW-190A-4
FW-190A-5
FW-190A-8
FW-190D-9
FW-190D-9Late
FW-190F-8
FW-190F-8Mistel
G50
Hawk
He-162A-2
He-162C
HurricaneMkI
HurricaneMkII
I-153
I-15Bis
I-16
I-16_SPB
IAR-80
IAR-81A
Il-10
Il-2-1940Early
Il-2-Late
Il-4
Il-4-BGun
Il-4-Bombardier
Il-4-NGun
Il-4-TGun
J8A
Ju-87B-2
Ju-87D-3
Ju-87D-5
Ju-88A-4
Ju-88A-4-BGun
Ju-88A-4-Bombardier
Ju-88A-4-Ngun
Ju-88A-4-RGun
Ki-100
Ki-27(Ko)
Ki-27(Otsu)
Ki-43
Ki-43-II
Ki-43-II(Kai)
Ki-61
Ki-84-Ia
Ki-84-Ib
La-5
La-5FN
La-7
La-7B20
La-7R
LaGG-3series4
LaGG-3series66
MC-200_VII
MC-200_VII_new
MC-202
MC-205
Me-163B-1a
Me-262
Me-262HG-II
MiG-3
MiG-3U(Beta)
MiG-9
Mosquito_FB_MkVI
N1K2-Ja
P-38J
P-39N-1
P-39Q-1
P-39Q-10
P-40B
P-40C
P-40E
P-40M
P-47D-10
P-47D-25
P-51B
P-51C
P-51D-20(K14)
P-51D-20(N9)
P-63C
Pe-2-BGun
Pe-2series1
Pe-2series110
Pe-2series359
Pe-2series84
Pe-3bis
Pe-3series1
Pe-8
Pe-8_NAV
Pe-8_NGUN
Pe-8_RGUN
Pe-8_TGUN
Pe-8_WLGUN
Pe-8_WRGUN
SBD-5
SeafireMkIII
SpitfireMkIXc
SpitfireMkVb
SpitfireMkVc
SpitfireMkVIII
Ta-152C-1
Ta-152H-1
TempestMkV
Yak-1
Yak-1(Fairing)
Yak-15
Yak-3R
Yak-3und9
Yak-3VK-107
Yak-7
Yak-9
Yak-9D
Yak-9T
Yak-9U

[pupo162]

Microwave.

as i see, as in example , 109F2 cockpit has been touched. since F4 shares the same cockpit as f2 ( or so i believe), does this means the f4 cockpit is changed too?

[MicroWave]

Microwave.

as i see, as in example , 109F2 cockpit has been touched. since F4 shares the same cockpit as f2 ( or so i believe), does this means the f4 cockpit is changed too?

If they share the same cockpit, then yes.

[Sita]

OMG!!!!

a lot of work!!!

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

OMG!!!!

a lot of work!!!


And mainly done by one man! (not me)

[pupo162]

AS said before... cant wait :grin:

[Sita]

And mainly done by one man! (not me)

Triple OMG!!!
0_о

[damar]

Great news.Looking forward to the release

[Sita]

Il-4-Bombardier and Pe-2-BGun --- which cockpit is this?
Pe-2-BGun - rear gunner in Pe2 in all line of Pe2?

Il-4-Bombardier --- Navigator position? someone finish work of Sergey?

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Il-4-Bombardier and Pe-2-BGun --- which cockpit is this?
Pe-2-BGun - rear gunner in Pe2 in all line of Pe2?

Il-4-Bombardier --- Navigator position? someone finish work of Sergey?

Pe-2-BGun is still just the periscope type - there were only minor changes, I bet.

IL-4 bombadier station is not finished, but we decided to continue it a bit to a degree, that is acceptable as a temporarly solution, so that you can actually 'sit in' it. It will be fully completed in next patch. Generally we wouldn't release a cockpit in that state, but in the sad case of 'Vert' we make an exception of course.

[Sita]

i dont remeber any rear gunner periscope type in Pe2 , except rear gunner in pilot cockpit, In il2 Game ...
is this something new?

[Sita]

do you need help with Navigator position for il4?)

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

do you need help with Navigator position for il4?)

More references, yes.

[Sita]

sorry about this...
i mean work with texture...

but your team already have many talanted artists)

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

sorry about this...
i mean work with texture...

but your team already have many talanted artists)


Thanks! Yes, I am doing it. No problem here. ;-)

[Sita]

I can send files in PSD if you need for Il4...

[T_O_A_D]

Your Link in first post is giving this page now.

[Snake]

Ooops! Thank God we're not on the most wanted list!:)

[Alien]

That's because of these f#####s who want to censore the Internet!

[WTE_Galway]

That's because of these f#####s who want to censore the Internet!

Its not about censorship its about extorting money under some misled delusion that they deserve to make even more billions than they do already whilst pretending its to do with stopping criminals and helping the "little guy" writer/artist.

The GOOD thing is hopefully once copyright laws get really stupid people will move more and more to open source software and try a similar model for music and so forth.

[Luno13]

DT, do you have the conf.ini code to add the recording indicator? I don't think it's listed in the guide (I glanced over it just now).

[Alien]

I've made a fresh installation on my new PC after Megaupload's death and I don't have the guide. All I want is to have the new conf.ini lines (screens and smart throttle). Can someone post it please?

[Pfeil]

I've attached the guide I have, hopefully it's the one you need.


These parameter listed in the guide could be what you're looking for:

[game]
ScreenshotType=0
(0 = screenshots are saved as TGA, 1 = screenshots are saved as JPG, 2 = screenshots are saved as TGA and JPG)

jpgQuality=1.0 (quality of JPG screenshot. Range 0.0 to 1.0)

[rts]
UseSmartAxis=0 (value 1 enables smart axis)

[Alien]

Thanks, M8, that's ecactly what I needed :D

[Snake]

I've attached the guide I have, hopefully it's the one you need.


These parameter listed in the guide could be what you're looking for:

[game]
ScreenshotType=0
(0 = screenshots are saved as TGA, 1 = screenshots are saved as JPG, 2 = screenshots are saved as TGA and JPG)

jpgQuality=1.0 (quality of JPG screenshot. Range 0.0 to 1.0)

[rts]
UseSmartAxis=0 (value 1 enables smart axis)

I don't have these lines into my conf.ini! Is it ok to introduce them manually?

[KG26_Alpha]

v4.11 guide

New link on front page added.

[Pfeil]

I don't have these lines into my conf.ini! Is it ok to introduce them manually?

Yes. Make sure you don't have duplicate sections. I.E. if you already have a [game] section, don't add another one. Put the lines for that section under the lines in the existing one.

If a section doesn't already exist, put it at the bottom of the file underneath the other sections.