Some questions...

[Goblin Wizard]

1. Does something like charge bonus exist? I can't find anything about it in manual.

2. Does a unit get penalty/bonus for fighting uphill/downhill?

3. Are there any differences between units except 5-6 basic parameters with 0-3 possible values. For example - does the efficiency of a western swordsman maxed to 3/3/3.. will be the same as Russ version maxed to 3/3/3..? If there are other hidden parameters, please, tell me where I can find them.

4. Does the editor added to the game can only handle map modifications or I can add/modify units with it? Does a manual for this editor exist?

5. Is there any skill points cap for the commander skills?

Hmm...what can I say. This game has a huge potential. It's hard to go wrong with Mount & Blade and Total War crossover. Unfortunately, significant number of bugs makes this game very irritating after a short time. I can get over with most of them except stupid battle AI. For god sake this game is all about battles. I still occasionally play first Medieval:TW and this 10 year old game has battle AI that beats RW2 in every possible way. IMO it's the first thing that has to be fixed.
The other thing I don't like is "army exp." idea - totally unrealistic. IMO each unit should have its own exp pool. A unit should gain exp separately by fighting/shooting/killing enemies. Now, one unit fights and other unit gets upgrade :confused:.

Manual - someone should read it before uploading. There are 2 sentences that are repeated 4 times on the 3 pages (if something is so important you can make it bold, right?). Some of your commander skills' names are different than those in game. There are other things that have different names in manual and in game too.

For me, it looks like the game was released at least 2-3 months earlier that normally should.

[mitra]

1. Does something like charge bonus exist? I can't find anything about it in manual.

2. Does a unit get penalty/bonus for fighting uphill/downhill?

3. Are there any differences between units except 5-6 basic parameters with 0-3 possible values. For example - does the efficiency of a western swordsman maxed to 3/3/3.. will be the same as Russ version maxed to 3/3/3..? If there are other hidden parameters, please, tell me where I can find them.

4. Does the editor added to the game can only handle map modifications or I can add/modify units with it? Does a manual for this editor exist?

5. Is there any skill points cap for the commander skills?


Yes are all things in the game routines; have a little of patience, I will take a look to interpreted code for a short description of algorithm; if you know a little of script or programming languages I can explain you how to see them yourself


Unfortunately, significant number of bugs makes this game very irritating after a short time.


They are working on them don't worry


I can get over with most of them except stupid battle AI. For god sake this game is all about battles. I still occasionally play first Medieval:TW and this 10 year old game has battle AI that beats RW2 in every possible way. IMO it's the first thing that has to be fixed.


Well about the AI I read on various forum and reviewers and from my italian friend which take the game the opposite judgement (the played to TW also). I suppose is a matter of gaming experiences and perceptions of various players

[Sneaksie]

1. Does something like charge bonus exist? I can't find anything about it in manual.
Yes. It depends on the distance to a target. If enemy is close, cavalry will approach on trot or even walk speed and engage. But if distance allows, cavalry will automatically switch to gallop to make a powerful first strike.

You should also note what weapons are readied. After first hit (with lances if they have them) they switch to swords. If you don't give them a moment to regroup after a melee fight, they won't have time to ready their lances again and will attack with swords readied.

2. Does a unit get penalty/bonus for fighting uphill/downhill?
Yes, both for ranged and melee weapons.

3. Are there any differences between units except 5-6 basic parameters with 0-3 possible values. For example - does the efficiency of a western swordsman maxed to 3/3/3.. will be the same as Russ version maxed to 3/3/3..? If there are other hidden parameters, please, tell me where I can find them.

Skills may be the same, but equipment sometimes is not and not all men in the regiment may be equal. For example, eastern bows are composite and have more power than western ones, so, let's say, Mongol archers will have an advantage even if skills are the same.
There are some differences for other units as well. Let's compare elite regiments, Western knights and Russian Senior Druzhina or Mongol Kheshig unit. Druzhina and Kheshig are all elite warriors with the same skills. On the other hand, knight reqiment contains 50% knights, which are the most powerful warriors in the game, and 50% squires, who are somewhat less able.

4. Does the editor added to the game can only handle map modifications or I can add/modify units with it? Does a manual for this editor exist?

You can do ANYTHING except engine modifications, there are YouTube videos showing AI and GUI modification. The entire game has been made using the same editor you have.

5. Is there any skill points cap for the commander skills?


Yes, max skill level is 5.

[Goblin Wizard]

Yes are all things in the game routines; have a little of patience, I will take a look to interpreted code for a short description of algorithm; if you know a little of script or programming languages I can explain you how to see them yourself
I know a little about programming. Let me know where I should look for. If I have any problems I ask again.

Well about the AI I read on various forum and reviewers and from my italian friend which take the game the opposite judgement (the played to TW also). I suppose is a matter of gaming experiences and perceptions of various players

I don't want to argue with you so I'll give you an example from one of my latest battles:
AI took defensive positions and stood still. I set my units in line in front of AI's line. AI didn't want to attack first so I sent one of my archers on the enemy flank and started to shoot. 1st unit was reduced by more than 50%...2nd unit was reduced by more than 50%.. when the 3rd unit was close to 50% of loses AI started to react but it was far too late. My archers were firing from the short range and from the flank so they killed more than 250 enemy soldiers without loosing even one man. AI had archers too but from the unknown reasons decided not to shoot or react in any other way. How would you call that type of behavior?

Additional question: Does the number of rows in archers unit has any influence on the shooting efficiency (accuracy, damage)?

[mitra]

I know a little about programming. Let me know where I should look for. If I have any problems I ask again.


1 - open editor.exe
2 - from the menu of editor select "editor script->states machines"
3 - you will see a list of aix files and a button edit
4 - every aix files contains the battle mechanics and the AI routines: example
west europe global.aix contains AI routines, west europe group.aix the routine for group factors in battle, all the others manage routines of single soldiers or objects (open one of them with edit).
5 each aix contains different states which are a logical block of code (something similar to a class), the states are called in a logical sequence starting from a the state main. THe state have names sufficient speaking for understand what they do, wihtout reading all the before.


I don't want to argue with you so I'll give you an example from one of my latest battles:
AI took defensive positions and stood still. I set my units in line in front of AI's line. AI didn't want to attack first so I sent one of my archers on the enemy flank and started to shoot. 1st unit was reduced by more than 50%...2nd unit was reduced by more than 50%.. when the 3rd unit was close to 50% of loses AI started to react but it was far too late. My archers were firing from the short range and from the flank so they killed more than 250 enemy soldiers without loosing even one man. AI had archers too but from the unknown reasons decided not to shoot or react in any other way. How would you call that type of behavior?


This is the behaviour of peasants armies, the ai in game has three behaviour preset, defensive, aggressive, free (you can set it manually in custom battle). Depending from the situation or army type on the campaign map you has different behaviour. Anyway if you read the scripts you will see how logic the AI apply in reaction to situations.

[Goblin Wizard]

Thanks a lot! Could you tell me one more thing - where (in editor) I can find units' stats, equipment, development trees, etc.?

btw Are all your youtube videos and pdf guides for RW1242 applicable for RW2:NC too?

[mitra]

Thanks a lot! Could you tell me one more thing - where (in editor) I can find units' stats, equipment, development trees, etc.?


In the initial state of various aix is where the fixed constans are set for units or soldier. Make attention they are not absolute but are influenced by other fixed values or external variable values. Example from the state you will see the great axe used by western axemen and by russian elite axemen is the same, what make difference is the different ability with the primary weapon. You will see troops with shield bonus but shield bonus is applied only if the direction of hit comes from a direction where shield can intercept it. etc
The development trees must be part of one of interface .aix (that which manages the GUI and the menus) but is new, still I don't have found it. Perhaps is read by the AIX state using a text file.


btw Are all your youtube videos and pdf guides for RW1242 applicable for RW2:NC too?

For tactical battle yes

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

In the initial state of various aix is where the fixed constans are set for units or soldier. Make attention they are not absolute but are influenced by other fixed values or external variable values. Example from the state you will see the great axe used by western axemen and by russian elite axemen is the same, what make difference is the different ability with the primary weapon. You will see troops with shield bonus but shield bonus is applied only if the direction of hit comes from a direction where shield can intercept it. etc
The development trees must be part of one of interface .aix (that which manages the GUI and the menus) but is new, still I don't have found it. Perhaps is read by the AIX state using a text file.



For tactical battle yes

That is very interesting. *Excited*
Now Im wondering, any idea how to change so camera will strafe in 2 directions simultaneously? (Compare to Total War Series). What I mean is, Strafing for example down and left = moving the camera "southeast", if you get what I mean. I'd so much appreciate if anyone knows how to do that :)

[mitra]

That is very interesting. *Excited*
Now Im wondering, any idea how to change so camera will strafe in 2 directions simultaneously? (Compare to Total War Series). What I mean is, Strafing for example down and left = moving the camera "southeast", if you get what I mean. I'd so much appreciate if anyone knows how to do that :)

Camera movement is controlled by scripts, I think is one or more states in gui.aix which contains the states related to battle GUI. A modder can add new movements from here

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Wow, thanks. I just found it under "Advanced" in the editor. Can a completely-new-to-this person like me do that? Or will it require someone with more experience?

[Goblin Wizard]

Example from the state you will see the great axe used by western axemen and by russian elite axemen is the same, what make difference is the different ability with the primary weapon.
Could you explain "the different ability with the primary weapon"? Any examples of these abilities?

Another thing - how the reinforcements cost is scaled (..\data\gui\map.gui.aix)
var restorePrice : Integer;

= ; if selectedCommander > 0 then

= ; restorePrice := floor(100*selectedUnitsCountByTemplate*(1+1.5*sele ctedIntSize)) //restore of first humans squad cost less

= ; else

= ; begin

= ; var armorKoef : Integer = 2;

= ; case selectedUnitArmor of

= ; 0 : armorKoef := 2;

= ; 1 : armorKoef := 4;

= ; 2 : armorKoef := 8;

= ; 3 : armorKoef := 12;

= ; end;

= ; restorePrice := selectedPrice * armorKoef;

= ; end


This part looks ok but a few lines below we can see something like this:
var armorKoef : Integer = 1;

= ; case selectedUnitArmor of

= ; 0 : armorKoef := 1;

= ; 1 : armorKoef := 1;

= ; 2 : armorKoef := 10;

= ; 3 : armorKoef := 10;

= ; end;

= ; selectedPrice := selectedPrice * armorKoef;

I'm curious why units with armor >1 cost 10 times more to reinforce? Maybe it works under different circumstances?

Units with shields on the back. When does such a unit use shield or when the shield works?

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

I am still struggling with how to change the strafing. What I find is alots of variables and stuff. Does anybody have any idea where to adjust it? (As said before, I want to change so that you can strafe in 2 directions simultaneously - for example Up and Right = would be "Northeast"). I am so curious, and I cant wait for an answer :eek:

[mitra]

Could you explain "the different ability with the primary weapon"? Any examples of these abilities?


Primary weapon is the bonus you give in the upgrade unit screen, with value from 0 to 3. Higher is the value higher is the efficiency on the use of weapons . At example it modify the possibility to make a hit but not the factor related to weapon type (like armour piercing capacity or maximum damage).


Another thing - how the reinforcements cost is scaled (..\data\gui\map.gui.aix)
var restorePrice : Integer;

= ; if selectedCommander > 0 then

= ; restorePrice := floor(100*selectedUnitsCountByTemplate*(1+1.5*sele ctedIntSize)) //restore of first humans squad cost less

= ; else

= ; begin

= ; var armorKoef : Integer = 2;

= ; case selectedUnitArmor of

= ; 0 : armorKoef := 2;

= ; 1 : armorKoef := 4;

= ; 2 : armorKoef := 8;

= ; 3 : armorKoef := 12;

= ; end;

= ; restorePrice := selectedPrice * armorKoef;

= ; end


This part looks ok but a few lines below we can see something like this:
var armorKoef : Integer = 1;

= ; case selectedUnitArmor of

= ; 0 : armorKoef := 1;

= ; 1 : armorKoef := 1;

= ; 2 : armorKoef := 10;

= ; 3 : armorKoef := 10;

= ; end;

= ; selectedPrice := selectedPrice * armorKoef;

I'm curious why units with armor >1 cost 10 times more to reinforce? Maybe it works under different circumstances?


Armour 3 is a very expensive value, because make a big difference in fight (is a complete knight armour) it was the more expensive things in war with the warhorse. The routine suppose if you must reinforce a unit of knights you must pay also for their equipment which is more expensive of that of militia.

I see you start soon to play with the code :)


Units with shields on the back. When does such a unit use shield or when the shield works?

BLock hit from the back direction, if I remember well the routines

[mitra]

I am still struggling with how to change the strafing. What I find is alots of variables and stuff. Does anybody have any idea where to adjust it? (As said before, I want to change so that you can strafe in 2 directions simultaneously - for example Up and Right = would be "Northeast"). I am so curious, and I cant wait for an answer :eek:

You know how to use a debug tool?

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Hmm no I dont think so :O
Whats it used for?

[mitra]

for see in execution the flow of source code

Here a video for see how use the debug in the editor (the editor is that of 1242, so the menu are not placed at the same mode); works great for understood how work the code; you place the breakpoint in the state where there is the code you want and you can see the actions and values line for line

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgRv9NwXrA

[Goblin Wizard]

The video shows something called Script Debugger. How to run it? Does it start automatically when something is wrong?
I assume that lines in red are excluded from execution right?

[mitra]

No you place a breakpoint and the flag activate debugger in the script editor. after you run the game from the editor (menu file->test map; press esc -> select "go to main menu" and execute one of game functions) when the game running pass from one of your break-point the window open alone.

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Nice video, even though it was a bit hard to understand everything. Basically, Im wondering (as mentioned before) about how to fix strafing, if you know Mitra? ;)
I also wonder how to change unit sizes, and how to add new units to the recruitment tree?
Does it aswell work to change for example the speed of arrows when they are in the air?

[Krzych]

This is very interesting topic.. I have also take a look on the code, and its look as ... interestingly complex system :D
I have heard an opinion (interview with Shogun 2 TW programmer) that AI programming is one of the most complicated and challenging software areas..
Do you have something similar to Class Diagram of the code? The graph showing how the Classes and their objects are connected and related to each other, which methods they have etc.. this would ease the process of familiarising with the code?

Best Regards,

[mitra]

Well is possible but you must have experience with programming logic; I passed your idea of strafing to Unicorn like other suggestions (also if I must admit I don't have understood the principle of camera movement in strafing because I don't have played to NTW) they tell will ad it to their tasks and they tell is easy to do (but before leave them complete the resolution of technical problems). For modding: you have many ideas but you need to associate yourself to a modder for the technical part which can transform your ideas in code, try on TW center if someone can be interested, eventually I can give him help on how use the editor tools.

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Well actually Im not so very interested in modding ; )
The game is quite fine as it is now, could be more units ofcourse, but it's good. It's basically the strafing that I cant get over. So Im very grateful that you have passed that idea to the developers. I really hope they can fix it. =)

[mitra]

Well is complex also for me, but from what i understood every object or element of engine is linked to a library of states (the aix file), each state contain the routine (and function). In the state the interaction with hardcoded part is done with call function. There is state executed cyclacally starting from a main state, states triggered by events, states called by other states of other states of other aix. At example when I press the "form cicle" button I activate a state of gui.aix which activate a state of western.groups.aix, which prepare the geometrical form of circle and give order to single soldiers to move in this form using their movement state.

[mitra]

Well actually Im not so very interested in modding ; )
The game is quite fine as it is now, could be more units ofcourse, but it's good. It's basically the strafing that I cant get over. So Im very grateful that you have passed that idea to the developers. I really hope they can fix it. =)

I hope I have described well the process (basically is like to move in circle around a central point?)

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

Well yes, you could say so but, depends on game. What I mean is like... Compare to M&B or TW camera. For example M&B Warband: When you have died, you can look around with the camera as "Ghost" (Comming to the point now). When you do that, you can basically do any movement with camera, including Strafing in 2 directions simultaneously, which means, you strafe oblique (Think it's called so). So instead of for example first strafing down, and then rigth/left, you strafe down + right/left at the same time, so it goes oblique down (Or up ofcourse, if you're strafing that way). So that would mean you can quickly and easily get to the point of the map where you want to have the camera, and still facing the enemy (Having the camera towards the enemy so you see from your armys perspective). ;)
It's a bit hard to explain but, I hope you understood.

Regards

[Goblin Wizard]

Does anybody know where exactly I can find rate of fire value for archers and crossbowmen?

[ThisIsRealWarfare]

I've got no idea. I think Mitra knows. ;)
It would be good if they could adjust the rate of fire of siege weapons, since they shoot like one time every 5 seconds (a bit too fast). Should be about 1 per 15 seconds, if not slower.

[mitra]

Is linked to animation of reload, raising or decreasing the animation have impact on frequence; that is why the siege machine have high rate of fire there is a problem in the reload animation which is too much rapid, they are correcting it. Unluckily I don't know how modify the velocity of animation because I'm not expert of 3d graphic.

[Goblin Wizard]

Thx for the tip. I've found the way to change rate of fire via adding/removing some parts of animation but I still can't change the animation speed. It looks like it can't be done via editor. So... do you know how to unzip dat.000.pak file? I need direct access to these animations.

Does something like "how to add new unit" guide exist? I've been looking through the scripts and :confused:... each unit has so many references to nearly countless number of files that it's really overwhelming. I don't want to add new models, textures or animations. I just want to make some copies of the existing units with different names and parameters (eg. elite crossbowman with 3 armor and some other stats changed). Hmm...I wonder if it's possible to make a mounted crossbowman?

[mitra]

Here all the documents\tools I have http://www.strategygamesitalia.eu/real-warfare-guide-modding-tools-t1791.html

In the modding tools there is the unpack tool. Unicorn will do a converter for open animation and mesh.

[Goblin Wizard]

1. Do previous games like XIII Century or RW 1242 has other types of units than those in RW2:NC? I mean different models with different animations e.g. mounted crossbowman, wagons or any other units? Something that can be used in RW2:NC.

2. mitra you said here (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=10608009#post10608009) that M&B trailer was made with RW engine. Does it mean than new RW expansion will be about XVI/XVII century? Models, textures, animations are ready, right? They just need to add them to campaign and.. voila.. we have new, brilliant expansion. Do you have any info about it? btw that's why they changed the title of their games - no more of XIII century.

---- EDIT ----

3. How to remove camera restrictions on the strategic map? I'd like to get to the edges of the map.

[mitra]

1. Do previous games like XIII Century or RW 1242 has other types of units than those in RW2:NC? I mean different models with different animations e.g. mounted crossbowman, wagons or any other units? Something that can be used in RW2:NC.

2. mitra you said here (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=10608009#post10608009) that M&B trailer was made with RW engine. Does it mean than new RW expansion will be about XVI/XVII century? Models, textures, animations are ready, right? They just need to add them to campaign and.. voila.. we have new, brilliant expansion. Do you have any info about it? btw that's why they changed the title of their games - no more of XIII century.

---- EDIT ----

3. How to remove camera restrictions on the strategic map? I'd like to get to the edges of the map.

No the previous games have the same units.


I don't know if other era expansions are preview. I think the change of name was due to not link the game to a specific period.


3. How to remove camera restrictions on the strategic map? I'd like to get to the edges of the map.

Must be on the gui aix used during the strategic campaign, usually cameras are managed here.