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IceFire
10-31-2011, 03:48 AM
Idea popped into my head (which is always a bad thing :D)... what about flak towers? We've never had them in the game before. I'm not even sure if anyone in MOD land has ever created one.

These are what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_tower

I realize they were for city defense... but I thought some smaller ones were used for airfields too? Perhaps they could be created using stationary ships or armor with the necessary weapons already on them?

Aviar
10-31-2011, 04:40 AM
UP3 has 4 new flak units that each simulate a 'battery' of flak guns. So you only need to place one unit in order to simulate an entire battery of flak defense. As a mission builder, I find myself loving this new toy in the FMB. I wish we could get this in stock IL-2.

I suppose this is the closest thing to a 'flak tower' we have right now.

Aviar

EJGr.Ost_Caspar
10-31-2011, 10:26 AM
That would be generally easy to make. But since the freely placeable flak units in game are always on ground level, we would have to make a choise of:

1. having a few types of tower objects with fixed armament
2. importing many new AA versions, which are to use only on top of the unarmed objects

Zorin
10-31-2011, 11:45 AM
I think these are a bit excessive and not very useful anyway as we do not have suitabl maps and certainly not the CPU power to have the vast number of AA guns firing at once.

A rather simple solution for now would be to have combinations of the exsisting bunkers and varios AA guns, cause right now you can't use the bunkers as intended as the AA guns always end up inside and not on top.

ECV56_Guevara
10-31-2011, 11:50 AM
Any of these are good options! I prefer the second one but the first will be ok.

IceFire
10-31-2011, 09:04 PM
That would be generally easy to make. But since the freely placeable flak units in game are always on ground level, we would have to make a choise of:

1. having a few types of tower objects with fixed armament
2. importing many new AA versions, which are to use only on top of the unarmed objects

A couple of types with fixed armament wouldn't be a terrible thing. Aviar is right, something along those lines would be useful for building missions in some cases although copy and paste helps in a big way these days and is the single most useful addition for me in the FMB.

greybeard1
11-09-2011, 08:13 AM
Flak towers were in "Aces Over Europe" (Dynamix - 1993): it's a pity that each new software house does not start from the "state of art".

GB

IceFire
11-10-2011, 04:40 AM
I do remember trying to convince some AI planes to ram the tower while chasing me. I can't remember how successful I was :)

Pursuivant
11-14-2011, 02:13 PM
There's been some talk among modders about how to do flak towers.

The big obstacle is that you can't elevate flak guns (or most other objects) off the ground, so you can't place flak guns in flak towers. The ways around this might be:

1) Define the flak tower as a "ship" which is immobile but which can be placed on land. AA guns on the tower are part of the larger model and the tower can be "sunk" if it takes sufficient damage.

2) Define the flak tower as a "mountain" on which other objects can be placed. This idea is based on the premise that it's possible to place objects on the Mt. Suribachi object.

This sort of object would be indestructable and wouldn't require the flak guns to be part of the larger object. It would mean that individual flak guns would need to be placed on the object by mission builders, however.

So far as I know, nobody with the 3d and coding skills has had sufficient interest in flak towers to explore these options. They would be welcome additions to many German and English Channel maps.

Zorin
11-14-2011, 02:25 PM
There's been some talk among modders about how to do flak towers.

The big obstacle is that you can't elevate flak guns (or most other objects) off the ground, so you can't place flak guns in flak towers. The ways around this might be:

1) Define the flak tower as a "ship" which is immobile but which can be placed on land. AA guns on the tower are part of the larger model and the tower can be "sunk" if it takes sufficient damage.

2) Define the flak tower as a "mountain" on which other objects can be placed. This idea is based on the premise that it's possible to place objects on the Mt. Suribachi object.

This sort of object would be indestructable and wouldn't require the flak guns to be part of the larger object. It would mean that individual flak guns would need to be placed on the object by mission builders, however.

So far as I know, nobody with the 3d and coding skills has had sufficient interest in flak towers to explore these options. They would be welcome additions to many German and English Channel maps.

The elevation is done within the 3D modelling program and by the use of hooks. That is definitely not the problem.

All you need to do is load the artillery object and the bunker object into your modelling program, place the artillery ontop and remove the ground level hook of the artillery and rename the one of the bunker. Save and done.

The code will be 100% the same as the one of the regular artillery on the ground so no work involved there.

Should be done in a day for all light and medium artillery pieces we have for the three nations.

IceFire
11-16-2011, 04:34 AM
Even if there is something that makes that difficult... a stationary ship/armor object would probably suffice. Less configurable mind you but still an option.

I also found a picture of the tower I was thinking of...

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/091002-F-1234S-011.jpg

EDIT: I'm not even sure if that is a flak tower... hrmm!

magot
11-18-2011, 10:58 PM
I had in plan but for now it´s not realized done for Berlin or for Vienna town one model of Flakturm. (Flakturm VI - Stiftskasern, Vienna)
Problem is map. Is there only map of Berlin.
Map with Vienna is in progress in Czech community but in early time where not Flakturm done.
Second thing is that must be done flak40 zwiling (128cm) and flak38 vierling (4x20mm )which is not in IL2.
Third thing find solution for advanced AI which will be aim only in one air "cube" with two level light vs heavy flaks.

Is there too much things and very small use :(
Am not sure if will be in anytime realized
Now I have in progress only flak38 vierling ... but for trains/ground use

Pursuivant
11-19-2011, 10:19 AM
I also found a picture of the tower I was thinking of...

Not a flak tower. It's a French-style water tower.

THIS is a flak tower:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Vienna_flak_tower_dsc01576.jpg

or, if you want the allied version:

http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/05/thames_estuary.jpg

Not that I wouldn't object to seeing that sort of water tower in the game!

IceFire
11-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Aha... now I know :)

I was aware of this type: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_dsc01576.jpg

But not of this: http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos...es_estuary.jpg

What are those (aside from the obvious)?

Pursuivant
11-20-2011, 10:01 AM
What are those (aside from the obvious)?

I'm not quite sure what you're question is.

The German "flakturms" look like castles and were built on the outskirts of major cities such as Vienna and Berlin from 1942 on to protect against allied bombing raids. They were designed not only as AA gun outposts, but also bomb-proof command centers and air raid shelters. As you can see, they are quite tough. A few were demolished after the war, but most exist to this day.

The structures on stilts in the water are one of the Thames Estuary "sea forts" built starting in 1942 to protect against German bombing raids. Before then, German raiders could fly straight and level up the Thames estuary, more or less protected from flak as they completed their bomb runs against London.

To make things tougher for the Germans, the British constructed several "sea forts" about 6 miles off the Kentish coast. Each consisted of 6 subsidiary forts, fitted with AA guns, linked to a central command and control fort. They were manned until the 1950s, when they were either abandoned or torn down.

In the 1960s, a few were colonized by "pirate" radio station operators seeking to skirt the UK's restrictive broadcasting regulations.

Subsequently, they were abandoned again, although at least one is inhabited by a rather eccentric (former) English major and his family, who have declared their sea fort to be sovereign territory!

http://www.sealandgov.org/history.html