I know it's way too early for this

[Blackdog_kt]

...but if the rumors about a Mediterranean expansion are true i might as well get the ball rolling on this one.

If there's an interest for a Mediterranean scenario later on for BoB:SoW, i could collect some information about squadrons, insignias and markings to have the HAF represented in it. For example, a lot of the aircraft displayed mixed markings, using the blue/white Greek roundels on the fuselage and the RAF blue/white/red colors on the wing roundels and the fin flash, or vice versa.

There's also some potential for very challenging scenarios during the initial Italian invasion, as the HAF was using PZL24s, Henschel 123s, Bloch MB.151Cs and Potez 633 bombers against Italian Fiats, Savoia Marchettis and later Me109s.

Those PZLs were a mix of F and G models, incorporating improvements like larger fuel tanks and propeller spinners. The F type used 2x7.92mm machine guns and 2x20mm Oerlikon cannons (i think these are the same guns found on the Me109E), while the G type used 4x7.92mm machine guns. There is also talk about PZL losses being replaced by RAF Gladiators.

The P24 was a much more competent aircraft than the P11c we have in IL-2 (900-1000hp engine), especially if we judge by the records of the time. It's thought to have been good enough to fight against early 109s (Jumo engined, not the 109E with the DB601) and PZL24s accounted for 40 Italian aircraft shot down during the conflict, despite a total lack of spares (Poland and France being already overrun, the engine was of French design). Also, the french types used by the HAF could be used for other theaters as well, if a battle of France scenario comes to life.

This is not something i can do in a matter of a few months (which is fine as the game still has some way to go before completion), but there are some people i know that can come up with 99% of all the information needed. My father used to run a scale model shop and some of the customers there could tell you what kind of camo Galland's 109 was wearing in 43 in RLM codes :grin:

One of them knows a retired HAF pilot that actually served in the Middle East (he's written a book about it as well), but sadly i don't know if the old pilot is still alive. In any case, there's sufficient material going around and using the book as reference i could also get an idea on the kind of missions they were flying.

Here's some images of representative aircraft.

[Avimimus]

Yes, its interesting isn't it?

I think the evidence consists of early polls (prior to PF) on the UBI website showed a strong preference for the Mediterranean. It also has never been modeled before. Oleg's decision to model the Italians well naturally would make the transition easier.

If so, I am really looking forward to this as it will be the first time it is professionally modeled. It is also very meaningful for the Commonwealth (up there with the night campaign)

[Blackdog_kt]

Yup, i'm thinking of Beufighters surfing the waves as they move in on some convoy. And don't get me started on the night campaign, pathfinder Mosquito with incendiary bombs, properly structured online missions with a master bomber, early electronic aids and so on :grin:

In fact, if the med and night ops are modeled i'll be flying on the allied side much more often.

After some quick reading it seems that the HAF also used Blenheims. The wellingtons in the image i posted are probably post war though.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

It also has never been modeled before.

Not entirely correct...one of CFS3's biggest expansions is MAW (Mediterranean). It's user made, but with a very big number of planes and lots of good research. It also has a big map. Coast of Africa, Malta, Italy, Crete...it's rather impressive.

[JG53Frankyboy]

im also looking forward to a planned SoW:MTO , even if this a look in the far future :D

and it will be exciting to wait for wich scenario Maddox game will decide.
because i dont thing it will be a "whole MTO" thing , i belive it will be very scenario/battle related. To reduce work, on map and planeset.
and for that i doubt the greek campaign of 1941 will have a chance..............even it is interesting (with all this early war planes :) )

the SoW:MTO should perhaps be something like this:

SoW:MTO for 1940/41

Libya/Cyreneika and Sicily/Malta maps

Bf109E-7/Trop
Bf110D
Ju87B/R
Ju88A-4
He111H with Torpedoarmament available

G.50
Cr.42
MC.200
SM.79-II
Br.20M
Ba.65 <- doubtfull, any sources of cockpits ?

Gladiator II
Hurricane Ia Vokes
Hurricane IIb Vokes
Tomahawk IIb
Blenheim IV
Wellington Ic
SeaGladiator
Fulmar II
SeaHurricane Ib
Swordfish

For FAA operations:
Carriers
HMS Illustrious
HMS Eagle
HMS Audacity :D


Totaly new planes would be:
MC.200
Tomahawk
Fulmar
Swordfish
SM.79
Ba.65

If Gladiator and Wellington will be flyable in SoW:BoB is not sure.
The rest would be modifications from the SoW:BoB planes.
Ju88A-4 would actually be very differ from Ju88A-1 , espacially in cockpit.



and than, even later, an PayAdon for the MTO part of SoW: “Tobruk-1942”

Bf109F-4/Trop
Bf109F-4/B/Trop
Bf109G-2/Trop
Ju87D-1

Mc202_VII

Hurricane Mk.IIc Vokes
Hurricane Mk.IId Vokes
Spitfire Mk.Vc Abukir
Kittyhawk Mk.III
P-40F
Boston Mk.III
Baltimore Mk.III



but this whole thing here is actually like IL2 thinking............. so its even not sure if the different "volumes" of the SoW series will be possible to merge !!
and before the MTO thing appears, i hopw for a SoW:BoB PayAdon like this:
“Dieppe 1942”

Hurricane Mk.IIc
Spitfire Mk.Vb
Spitfire F.Mk.IXc
Typhoon Mk.Ib
Mustang Mk.I
Boston Mk.III
B-17E

Bf109G-1
Fw190A-3
Do217E

that the estimated very huge work for the Channel map can be used also for other timeframes.
Even that announced 3.Party Moddeller tool could be released with such an AdOn - if it will be not ready with the original SoW:BoB release.
and sure, other new gamefeatures could also be released than - feature we are unable to think about at this time ;)



actually , the next years will be absolutly exciting for us combatflightsim enthusiasts :) - thanks to Maddox games !

[Blackdog_kt]

If the modding tools are anything like the rumors say, it could be feasible for a group of enthusiasts to come up with a new theater on their own and then submit it to 1c for approval. That being said, i know that a Balkan campaign won't be a high priority.

Nevertheless, there were HAF squads flying in the Middle East and i'd like to see them represented when the time for the addon comes, especially since they were using RAF equipment that will be modeled anyway.

I'm not talking about a few obscure planes here and there, there were definitely two full fighter squads and a light bomber squad per RAF standards and included in the RAF roster. They also took part in important battles like El Alamein.

We'll be getting Spits and Hurricanes anyway, all it takes is some research on serial numbers and markings for skins and i can come up with the needed information.

[csThor]

It's rather improbable that a whole theater will be "modded". Reasons:

a) The user-made maps will be limited in size. Not sure how much but I guess they won't be useful for anything but gangbanging at 500ft between two bases. :rolleyes:

b) User-made aircraft will not have the "full FM" package SoW offeres - this will be limited to creations of Maddox Games or user-made aircraft they deem "perfect enough" to be considered "canon".

[bhunter2112]

Drool.....

[Blackjack]

b) User-made aircraft will not have the "full FM" package SoW offeres - this will be limited to creations of Maddox Games or user-made aircraft they deem "perfect enough" to be considered "canon".

this also can be interpreted a lot , so i.e. you would not be able to create fm-"monsters" like the lerche or any specific stallbehaviour, you would only be able to create FMs on the level of current il2 1946 ;)
I dont think it would be any more dumbed down.

[Avimimus]

Not entirely correct...one of CFS3's biggest expansions is MAW (Mediterranean). It's user made, but with a very big number of planes and lots of good research. It also has a big map. Coast of Africa, Malta, Italy, Crete...it's rather impressive.

I stand corrected. I actually meant "never officially modeled before". I believe SWOTL, AOE, FS:SDOE, CFS1, CFS3 and probably a few other sims have mods. But, it is still a first the same way Oleg's modeling of the Great Patriotic War was a first...

[proton45]

What would you guys think of an Italian map like this (as part of the MTO expansion for "SoW")? I think a well done map of Italy would be a dream to fly (fight) over (I would cream my jeans for this)...dogfights, bomber sorties, P-47 ground pounding, Anzio, Gustav line, the Winter line....

I based the size of this map from descriptions of the "BoB SoW" map...

[csThor]

this also can be interpreted a lot , so i.e. you would not be able to create fm-"monsters" like the lerche or any specific stallbehaviour, you would only be able to create FMs on the level of current il2 1946 ;)
I dont think it would be any more dumbed down.

Well my reading of Oleg's words is this: The full FM capabilities remain solely in Maddox Games's hands. External developers will have access to a limited set of variables - which basically means not "dumbed down" but not "full blown", either.