The news about RRG from Oleg

[Viking]

The news that RRG studios are working on a Korea scenario, project Galba, using the SoW engine sounds like a well thought idea since most Americans and non Europeans will find little or no interest in the BoB scenario, so this will give them an incitement to buy the sim. If then 1C will be working history from BoB forward and RRG from Korea backwards they will together be able to cover the whole era in a relative short period of time. I sincerely hope that this is the intention.

Just my 0, 2 €.

Viking

[SlipBall]

I can't wait for BOB, WW11 is where my interest lies. I'm not sure that I would buy a Korea sim, I just have little interest in that era...and I am a American

[JG53Frankyboy]

indeed, interest about a scenario should not be related on where do you come from........

im German, and im not very interested in a BoB scenario - much more in such a Korean one !

but anyway , im in general interested in Aircombat - so i dont complain about any of these two.
and actually the SoW engine itself is what im looking for , it will be most propably a huge improvemnt in combat flight sims :)

[Viking]

Yes; I think its safe to say that everybody who have found their way to this forum, regardless of nationality, will buy almost anything with the word”flight” in it, either out of interest or for the sole support, but this population is far from big enough to pay back the developing money for this sim, so we need some easily recognizable buzzwords in order to reach the attention and interest of the average game buying Joe to react and reach out for just this sim( game) in the mall.
IMHO “Korea” is such word in the US and so is “Battle of Britain” in Europe. Let’s hope it works that way.

Viking

[proton45]

Yes; I think its safe to say that everybody who have found their way to this forum, regardless of nationality, will buy almost anything with the word”flight” in it, either out of interest or for the sole support, but this population is far from big enough to pay back the developing money for this sim, so we need some easily recognizable buzzwords in order to reach the attention and interest of the average game buying Joe to react and reach out for just this sim( game) in the mall.
IMHO “Korea” is such word in the US and so is “Battle of Britain” in Europe. Let’s hope it works that way.

Viking

"Battle of Britain" is a pretty big buzzword...even here in the states. I know a lot of people here who play "BoB WoV"

p.s. This is not to say that I'm not "very" interested in the Korea sim...that's why I asked about it... :)

[LEXX]

If Oleg wants to develop for "Americans" he can go XboX. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/Wink.gif

Lots of interest in Spain over Spanish Civil War. Oleg once poasted at ubi that he would love to make SCW sim. I'm hoping that modding in BoB And Beyond or even (eventually) FB/PF will allow JG-Tuckie's Spanish Civil War team to come back home to OlegWare from TargetWare.

I'm hoping Korea Sim works its way forward, covering late 1940s to early 1960s never done in any out-of-box Made In Ussia or Made In Russia combat flight The Sim.

[Krt_Bong]

Screw Xbox, that's for kiddies or those who cant get a real computer. Those games are for a very small niche market involving preteens wanting instant gratis gaming without any involvement, We are only interested in realistic flight sims or combat that only involves adult gamers. Not the sort of crap thats sold to the teen market.

[proton45]

If Oleg wants to develop for "Americans" he can go XboX. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/Wink.gif

Lots of interest in Spain over Spanish Civil War. Oleg once poasted at ubi that he would love to make SCW sim. I'm hoping that modding in BoB And Beyond or even (eventually) FB/PF will allow JG-Tuckie's Spanish Civil War team to come back home to OlegWare from TargetWare.

I'm hoping Korea Sim works its way forward, covering late 1940s to early 1960s never done in any out-of-box Made In Ussia or Made In Russia combat flight The Sim.

I'd go for a "SCW" sim...Spain is beautiful (a nicely done map of Spain would be wonderful...I wonder what the best region to map would be???)...and their is a good variety of airplanes involved in the "SCW".

Have a look at all the airplanes involved...http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/did.html

[mondo]

The news that RRG studios are working on a Korea scenario, project Galba, using the SoW engine sounds like a well thought idea since most Americans and non Europeans will find little or no interest in the BoB scenario, so this will give them an incitement to buy the sim.

I'm British and I'm more interested in a Korea sim more than BoB. While its a nice starting point I want to fly a Seafury from carrier deck and shoot down pesky Migs. Quite looking forward to the Med as well and carrier operations in general.

[Robert]

I'll buy and play both. If it flies and can shoot me down I'm there. 1916 - 1952 It makes no difference when.

[Feuerfalke]

You're sure that BoB is of little or no interest to the majority of non-Europeans, while the Korean War is much more interesting to the US-customers?

IMHO this formula is a little superficial.

How many people were interested in the eastern front-airbattle between Russia and Germany? Did this really lower the success of the series? I doubt that.

Even if BoB will not interest as many players as 1946 with all its variety, most players will see the future and they will switch to the new sim, hoping for their favourite area to be added next.

[BadAim]

You're sure that BoB is of little or no interest to the majority of non-Europeans, while the Korean War is much more interesting to the US-customers?

IMHO this formula is a little superficial.

How many people were interested in the eastern front-airbattle between Russia and Germany? Did this really lower the success of the series? I doubt that.

Even if BoB will not interest as many players as 1946 with all its variety, most players will see the future and they will switch to the new sim, hoping for their favourite area to be added next.

I think actually that Korea will have wide appeal, I am quite looking forward to saddling up on an old-school jet and duke it out with guns at 500mph. Of course I'm an uncultured American, so that's to be expected.

[Avimimus]

The news that RRG studios are working on a Korea scenario, project Galba, using the SoW engine sounds like a well thought idea since most Americans and non Europeans will find little or no interest in the BoB scenario, so this will give them an incitement to buy the sim. If then 1C will be working history from BoB forward and RRG from Korea backwards they will together be able to cover the whole era in a relative short period of time. I sincerely hope that this is the intention.

Just my 0, 2 €.

Viking

One should take into account that many non-europeans are still a bit sick of the only choice being flying for "the might eighth". Most commonwealth countries would like to see a BOB sim and would be even more interested in a Mediterranean or, better still, a Night Warfare sim.

Korea will still be nice to see - especially as a wide variety of countries participated

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing terrible in U.S.A. only sims, but if it wasn't for people like Oleg and the broader pallet of the world market there would never have been a Great Patriotic War sim (and the flightsim industry itself might be almost dead).

[Bobb4]

Does anyone remember Rowan's two big sims Mig Alley and BoB? All we need now is for Oleg to announce that KOTS are also using his engine and that would complete the trilogy, anyone remember Rowan's Flying Corps?

[skyfox]

Nationalities...pffft all sides have their own interesting histories imho. My prejudice is much narrower. "Must have props", now thats my required criteria. :)

[Feuerfalke]

I think actually that Korea will have wide appeal, I am quite looking forward to saddling up on an old-school jet and duke it out with guns at 500mph. Of course I'm an uncultured American, so that's to be expected.

Absolutely right. But the theory is, that people outside of Europe are less interested in BoB and more interested in Korea (especially people in the US).

But I am also very much looking forward to the Korea-Sim, so there are some flaws in this theory after all. :grin:

[Thunderbolt56]

I want them both.

I CAN buy both...right? I mean, There's not a sim-limit or anything out there that says I can't buy both of these sims is there?

Here's the deal guys. Our voice will be amplified 1,000-fold by using our wallets as our plug-in...not these forums.

[Avimimus]

Does anyone remember Rowan's two big sims Mig Alley and BoB? All we need now is for Oleg to announce that KOTS are also using his engine and that would complete the trilogy, anyone remember Rowan's Flying Corps?

I have two copies, but I never managed to get either to work...

[Chivas]

I would imagine most of the members of this forum are prop heads, but would buy any good historical combat flight sim. I know I bought Lomac flew it once and thought this is very good but immediately went back to IL-2. I think I have every half decent combat flight sim made in the last 10 years.

I know the server I fly on created a second server with jets and alot of the regulars moved, but most soon migrated back to the prop server.

I'm sure Oleg has put extensive thought into where to start his new series and BOB is the most logical starting point if your going to create paid add-ons for the whole WW2 air conflict. The Battle of France is much less known and will probably be done by a third party. Most of the map required for the BoF should be available on the existing BOB map, depending on how far it extends east into France and Begium.

The Med will probably be the next paid add-on, then its a toss-up from there, depending on Map size, aircraft required, as the rest of the theaters basicly overlap.

Map Size...how does it affect frame rate? Does it make a difference? Does the computer load the whole map at once, then display objects on the map as you get closer? Is it possible to create a map of the whole Med considering the amount of objects and detail in Olegs maps? Or do you think it will be a group of maps detailing only parts of the Med?

[Former_Older]

The news that RRG studios are working on a Korea scenario, project Galba, using the SoW engine sounds like a well thought idea since most Americans and non Europeans will find little or no interest in the BoB scenario, so this will give them an incitement to buy the sim. If then 1C will be working history from BoB forward and RRG from Korea backwards they will together be able to cover the whole era in a relative short period of time. I sincerely hope that this is the intention.

Just my 0, 2 €.

Viking


Hi Viking

You post confuses me

The title is "News from Oleg", but you end with "your two cents"

I can't tell if this is your opinions, or what. can you clarify

[Chivas]

Its an interesting idea for RRG to work their way back from Korea, but there has never been a hint of this happening. I'm sure RRG will definitely do something further with the SOW engine after Korea is done, if there is monies to be made. This will depend on sales and how effective the security is to stop it being put all over the net for free.

[na85]

The news that RRG studios are working on a Korea scenario, project Galba, using the SoW engine sounds like a well thought idea since most Americans and non Europeans will find little or no interest in the BoB scenario, so this will give them an incitement to buy the sim. If then 1C will be working history from BoB forward and RRG from Korea backwards they will together be able to cover the whole era in a relative short period of time. I sincerely hope that this is the intention.

Just my 0, 2 €.

Viking

I think people aren't interested in BoB because it's a tired concept that's been done many many times, ad nauseum.

[proton45]

I think people aren't interested in BoB because it's a tired concept that's been done many many times, ad nauseum.

the interest in "BoB SoW" is in the "new game" engine as well as the "BoB"...as far as I'm concerned the "BoB" is as good a place as any to start the new series...I have a feeling that their are going to be so many new aspects to "game play" (with the new engine) that we will have fun exploring the new "IL2 universe" for a few months...

But if thats still not enough for you, don't fear...I have a feeling that the "add-ons" and "up-dates" will come fast and furious once the "basic engine and game is out"

...I have a feeling we will be seeing the "BoB" in a whole new way.

[ElAurens]

As long as everyone is speculating, I'd love to see an add on of the air war in China before the arrival of the AVG.

So may different aircraft types on both sides.

From Curtiss, to Fiat, to Nakajima.

Biplanes vs. early monoplanes.

It would be amazing.

[Former_Older]

As long as everyone is speculating, I'd love to see an add on of the air war in China before the arrival of the AVG.

So may different aircraft types on both sides.

From Curtiss, to Fiat, to Nakajima.

Biplanes vs. early monoplanes.

It would be amazing.


I would too

Hi Terry

[ElAurens]

Cheers Chris.

:cool:

[BadAim]

Absolutely right. But the theory is, that people outside of Europe are less interested in BoB and more interested in Korea (especially people in the US).

But I am also very much looking forward to the Korea-Sim, so there are some flaws in this theory after all. :grin:

That's the problem with theories, we're all wrong at least half the time; the problem is figuring out which half. ;) (I think I'm wrong at least 52% of the time, but it's only a theory)

[Former_Older]

But hasn't that "theory" and it's implementation hurt us over the years?

It's assumed that the US market wouldn't want an Eastern Front flight sim- that was wrong

It's assumed that the Western market wouldn't car for Sturmoviks over Manchuria or 1946- that was wrong

It's assumed the "German community" says the VVS planes are too good

It's assumed the "Russian community" says that Oleg screwed the VVS planes

What needs to happen, and not just at Maddox games, is that the people who make combat flight sims must realize that their player base is not made up of rabid ultra-nationals who fit some boardroom's neat little graphs based on where the borders of countries lie, and wake up to the fact that we are enthusiasts who are interested in ALL aspects of combat flight simulation overall and specific aspects in particular.

And in our own flight sim community, we also must abandon these silly assumptions like "US players don't care about the Battle of Britain". It's a dismissive and wholly incorrect attitude we must get away from. We as players are not our country's stereotypes

We are flight sim and history enthusiasts. Don't assume we "don't care for" something. The history of this sim shows that line of reasoning has always been wrong

[ElAurens]

Well said sir.

Agree 100%

We all have our favorites (see my sig pic), but most of us want the whole thing. Some of the best times I've had in the whole IL2 series were back in the old days of the original IL2 when the BlitzPigs ran a series of coops for ourselves, I-16s, Mig3s and Sturmoviks over the snow covered landscape of the Eastern Front agianst horrible odds.

Nothing better, and not an American or British plane to be found. And at that point the Pigs were Americans, Brits, one each from Germany, Italy, Israel, and a hanger on from France who later became a Pig.

[Theshark888]

...their player base is not made up of rabid ultra-nationals who fit some boardroom's neat little graphs based on where the borders of countries lie...

You are spot on. Give me the Med, Spain, China-CBI, Poland, BoF etc. and all of the interesting, never done before, aircraft and theaters:!:

[robtek]

Yes, we want it all!!!
And we want it asap!!!
And of course without bugs!!!
Did I say we want it asap?

[proton45]

As long as everyone is speculating, I'd love to see an add on of the air war in China before the arrival of the AVG.

So may different aircraft types on both sides.

From Curtiss, to Fiat, to Nakajima.

Biplanes vs. early monoplanes.

It would be amazing.



agreed!

[VMF-214_HaVoK]

most Americans and non Europeans will find little or no interest in the BoB scenario

Could not disagree more as Im as excited for SoW as any Brit I would imagine although Im extremely excited for the Korean sim and have been since it was rumored.

Im American btw.

S!

[kid_SA]

I think those in this forum have a more general approach to flight simming, and would be interested in anything that involved flight, from one end of the globe to the other.

However, I think that a more "random" person will be more interested in a conflict that he has direct contact with, through his country, his relatives, his schooling, whatever, than another conflict. Once he's hooked on flight, he might fly anything, but what will make him pick up that box in the first place? Will it be a picture of the famous p51 (maybe he's seen a real model somewhere) or a more obscure chinese model?

Even within the flight community, the servers are an interesting demographic. (note: this is by no means a hard and fast rule, I fly all theaters and I know many others do). Let's take the "full switch" servers, purely because that's what I know. The western crowd flies... the Warbird servers, both western in nature, and Warclouds, western front. Many Russian servers see the light of day, mostly about the eastern front. G1 (G2 being about the Pacific), ADW, NullWar, the WarForFields that I fly on is ETO and populated mostly by Russian pilots, etc.

There are obvioulsy many exceptions, but on a general level, that is a trend that I see.

It's not right (or clever) to see a whole country in terms of the vocal nationalist few, but to think that all interests span all fronts is naive. People in America will have more of a connection with an American war, and that helps. It all depends how much that matters. For the older pilots who've been flying for a while, the flying might matter much more, but that is not the case for everyone. Maybe a young man (or woman) who has talked to a relative who owns an American built plane, or heard stories from WWII from a relative, or seen an American movie about American pilots or some such, might hold a particular interests in the events that he has had contact with, using the planes he has heard of, in the battles he's learned about. That's only natural. Let's not blind ourselves, much as we'd like it to be only about flight. Oleg still has numbers to consider.

That said, the more areas that are explored, the better. My interests lies more with the early war stuff, like the Spanish Civil War or the Battle for France, but I'll buy anything with a good flight model. I'm eagerly awaiting KOTS, BOB, RRG's sim, Black Shark, Fighter Ops, etc.

[311thCopperhead]

my concern is that we're never going to get back to the Pacific and have it done right. I think everyone will agree (that for whatever reason) Pacific Fighters wasn't a compleated product and was released unfinished. Korea & the PTO holds a lot of intrest for me. BoB...not so much. But a lack of compleate interst will not keep me from buying SoW bob. I'll follow the sim from start to finish the same way i did with Il-2...in hopes that one day we'll get back to the PTO. i waited close to 3 years for a P-47 in IL-2. I'm only hoping i don't have to wait that long gaain for one in SoW.

now don't get me wrong BoB is ok as a theater....it is the start of everything.
and if olegs plan is to begin @ the begining and follow a historical time line inthe seires..then that's where we need to start. It's just the planes in BoB that i lack interst in. I'll still by SoW....i just won't be as "into" it as much as i will when the sim produces the aircraft that do intrest me.

The eastern front intrests me. So those are the three i'm wiating for, Pacific, Korea, and back to the eastern front.

[CrazySchmidt]

I'd try any adaptation to the SoW series including a Star Wars version if it was on offer. It's the whole flight dynamics and graphical excellence thing that has me landed with 1C.

I couldn't give a moments thought to online game play quite frankly, apart from a few sessions with my Dad and brother which was quite fun.

CS. :)

[Bobb4]

I couldn't give a moments thought to online game play quite frankly, apart from a few sessions with my Dad and brother which was quite fun.

CS. :)


Frankly until you have shot or been shot down online you have not truly experienced IL2 period.
Until you have flown your bomber through waves of slash attacking fighters, all who know how to decimate your bomber in a single burst you have not experienced Il2.
No matter how good the AI, the proof of any pilot is his ability to survive online and the success of Il2 in part is owed significantly to the online community who have kept IL2 alive.
Storm of War Bob will live and die by it's ability to deliver online playability.
Literally thousands of people fly Il2 online every day.
Il2 1946 has 154 servers worldwide with players from Russia, China, Japan and many more countries.

COD4 was released as an online game with a single player game attached. This is a new trend. When Call of Duty was first released way back when, it was a single player game with an online game attatched.
Mods like Il2 commander and its ilk have opened up the Il2 experience to millions.
I would be very surprised if Storm of War is not released with such tools built in and online play a major feature of the game.
Game developers have realised the value of the online market, look at the success of the Battlefield series...
All I pray is that they have the ability to deliver to both markets.

[Theshark888]

Storm of War Bob will live and die by it's ability to deliver online playability.


I don't agree Bobb. The only way 1C will make a breakthrough hit is by doing the offline game correctly-which was kinda a problem with IL2. Hopefully a lesson was learned and more creativity and less engineering is put into SOW. I am talking making money for 1C not still seeing people playing an "old" game online 7 years after release!!

Sure, most of the 90% of offline players have probably moved away from IL2 but they are the ones who brought in the money. The 10% of online players are the real fans and the ones who keep the passion alive though.

[Bobb4]

I don't agree Bobb. The only way 1C will make a breakthrough hit is by doing the offline game correctly-which was kinda a problem with IL2. Hopefully a lesson was learned and more creativity and less engineering is put into SOW. I am talking making money for 1C not still seeing people playing an "old" game online 7 years after release!!

Sure, most of the 90% of offline players have probably moved away from IL2 but they are the ones who brought in the money. The 10% of online players are the real fans and the ones who keep the passion alive though.
Valid point, never quite thought of it like that...
I stand corrected.

[jasonbirder]

the success of Il2 in part is owed significantly to the online community

The success of IL2 is down to a few thousand people that bought the game and fly it online...not the hundreds of thousands that bought it and never fly it/flew it online??? How does that work then? Do all you onliners stuff envelopes full of roubles and post them off to Oleg every week?


Storm of War Bob will live and die by it's ability to deliver online playability

I'd have thought it lived and died by its ability to appeal to thousands of purchasers...Not a tiny commercialy insignificant minority...


Literally thousands of people fly Il2 online every day

And if they had been the only people that bought it...it wouldn't have paid 1C's electricty bill...let alone kept the company in business ;)

[robtek]

There it is again :-(
This thread is hijacked for the old online vs offline campaign.
plz stop that and start a extra thread if you feel the need to say your thing about that.

[brando]

I'll go back and quote Robert from Page 1

"I'll buy and play both. If it flies and can shoot me down I'm there. 1916 - 1952 It makes no difference when."

'Hear hear' from here. I hope both sides of this crazy online offline divide are well represented and fully functional in wherever IC Maddox or RRG takes us next.

I'll accept any posting, anywhere ;)

Brando

[Bearcat]

I'll buy and play both. If it flies and can shoot me down I'm there. 1916 - 1952 It makes no difference when.


Exactly.. I learned my lesson about that kind of silliness with IL2.. If it is a good sim, which coming from 1C I see no reason why it wouldn't be... I will have it the day it is released.

As for the online offline thing... I also have no doubt that the SoW series will be better than this one... online or offline.. and right now, in this sim ... I enjoy both.... immensely. Until 1C proves otherwise my money is theirs for any flight sim they produce ... sight unseen. I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever on any level that whatever comes after this will be better. Anyone who doubts that just needs to fire up IL2 1.0.. then fire up IL2 4.09b1.... and tell me it wont be better... if it can go from there to here on the same engine.. imagine what an entirely new engine will be like... and mind you.. what we have here is a taste of SoW... look at the Slovakia, Odessa, Bessarabia and the last MTO maps ...... and tell me you don't need a napkin.

[Beebop]

...most Americans and non Europeans will find little or no interest in the BoB scenario, ...
As an American I am VERY interested in BoB. Before I discovered IL-2 I played all the BoB campaigns in European Air War several times and hardly anything else. All my quick missions were BoB oriented. As a child my first plastic model was a Spitfire as it was the coolest looking WW II kit on the shelves to my eye. Don't underestimate American's interest in what was truly one of the most heroic struggles of WW II.

I think people aren't interested in BoB because it's a tired concept that's been done many many times, ad nauseum.
Ad nauseum? Most have done a decent job and at least to me I find them fun to fly. But then that's just me.

Although I will most likely play IL-2 for some time after the release of BoB, until more theaters and aircraft are put in, I will still buy it as soon as it's released and again take to the skies to defend England from the Nazi menace.

My 2 shillings worth.

[Flying_Nutcase]

If it needs confirming, it's the quality of the sim, not the theatre of war, at least within reason. Most of us would be more than happy to fly the non-digitised jets of the Korean War, just as we enjoy flying for Finland against the Russians, for Russia against the Germans, for Germany against the British, etc etc.

IL2 on the Russian Front became successful because of the quality of the sim. Storm of War will surely do the same. It won't matter how many BoB sims there have been or anyone's innate interest the battle. If Storm of War brings flight sims to a new level, the masses will follow.

[Avimimus]

Just what I was thinking.

[Bobb4]

I first got hooked on a flight sim called Red Baron (the original dos game), way back in the day. Since then I have bought almost every single one, be they helicopter, jet or space.
Nothing has compared to IL2 in the WW2 era and nothing is quite as good as Lomac (lockon flaming cliffs) post prop (and before I get flamed again this is only my opinion). But that said I always did like Rowan's Mig Alley, the conscept not the execution. Always thought they missed the boat, so jets over Korea in a brand new sim sounds cool.