Refund Request.

[nedley]

Dear Sir/Madam,

After being exceptionally satisfied thus far with each (and all!) prior version of the MOW series (see my reviews on many game websites), I must voice my disappointment with MOW:Vietnam.

I purchase MOW games purely for PvP multiplayer, and although after reading everything possible on the game from Steam (which, at my time of purchase, had only ONE option - no 'Special Edition') I gathered from the information provided and the multiplayer icon (I noticed that the game details mention:)

Singleplayer
Multiplayer
Co-op

Surely then, this is false advertising! There is no multiplayer, only co-op! Then, after coming on today to find my game without a multiplayer, I re-visit the steam page to find that there has been a 'special edition' added with PvP multiplayer at an extra cost...

Well, I can hardly express my anger in writing. After spending no less than a small fortune on MOW titles and DLC, I'd expect the company not to attempt to squeeze another measly £'s from my pocket for something that should be available to all!!!!

Therefore, I shall be entering my complaint into formal writing and beginning a petition for a refund.
Should this blasphemy of game sales marketing go unresolved, I will be writing it up as an article and taking it to work to publish! I feel that others should be warned about what I judge to be frankly a 'scam'. I am very disappointed with the team.

[psycho pigeon]

Multiplayer was only advertised on the special edition, standard versions only stated co-op on the campaign.

[nedley]

Multiplayer was only advertised on the special edition, standard versions only stated co-op on the campaign.

Incorrect. When MOW:Vietnam first went on sale for 'pre-order' there was no 'special edition' available on the page to purchase, and it stated that Multiplayer was available.

[micromancer]

Calm down, this is not false advertising ;)
It is merely a bit of chaos release, after all it was actually meant to be release 6 pm GMT according to the Steam Store page. This is also why we don't got a CD key yet (thus Coop is only available over LAN).

Also, you may rest assured there IS multiplayer in the game. You can actually try it out: simply copy an MP map from another MoW game (assault squad works too) into your map folder. You can then start a multiplayer game over LAN on that map ;)

And I tried it out - the MP is identical to MoW. That means (even without mod support) you can simply copy any map (any game mode) and play it with the Vietnam units.

I don't guarantee correctness of this post, I might have just said rubbish.

[WeeBee886]

My understanding is that Men of War: Assault squad was to remain the series' main multiplayer game and Men of War: Vietnam had always been intended as purely a singleplayer/co-op campaign experience. That's how they advertised it from the very beginning. It's possible that it was Steam's fault for making the release rather confusing.

[it068]

My understanding is that Men of War: Assault squad was to remain the series' main multiplayer game and Men of War: Vietnam had always been intended as purely a singleplayer/co-op campaign experience. That's how they advertised it from the very beginning. It's possible that it was Steam's fault for making the release rather confusing.

toatally agree. In fact, I bet Vietnam Multiplayer might be released as a DLC for MOW:AS. (obviously this is just a guess)

[SpeedWolf]

For the one who didn't buy the Special Edition, you would have to put out $4.99 to upgrade your standard version to get the Special Edition Exclusives,

[nedley]

I'm giving 21 days from the date of this post to correct/rectify the horrific issues with this game, until I publish my thoughts and that of MANY others (quoted from steam and this forum) in the group's sites and forums.

[micromancer]

Mhm, its almost funny to see how desperate many people are trying to get a refund/support etc. Well, if it wasn't so sad that is.
I don't think this will change anything but I hope that 1C (or whoever developed this "Game") realizes that my trust in the quality of Men of War series has dropped... my next Men of War game will certainly NOT be a blind buy again. I hope others think the same.

[Fred DM]

I agree about the Blind buy part, but why should 1C give a damn if noone likes their game and it's bad? As long as they make money out the ass they couldn't care less seeing as I've seen no attempt to fix any of this at all.

funny, the official Steam group has over 300 online and some 100 playing. yet the complainers can be counted on one hand. and they seem to be same ones over here as in the Steam forum... :rolleyes:

[Fred DM]

Yes, and there's over 1,000 members yet around 200 play it. The people who like the game keep to themselves.

all i'm saying is keep things in perspective. a lot of people apparently don't have as many problems as you do, or they aren't as bothered by them. and a patch is on the way. how about giving them a chance to start fixing things? there's nothing else remotely constructive you can do, as you probably won't get a refund.

[gamerboy4life]

I only ever play MOW for the singleplayer. If you base a game too much on Multiplayer, you are missing out on what makes games so fun.

This is the problem with the gaming industry. Multiplayer is tacked on to every game. While MOW might do it right, along with other games that are usually only campaign based, it usually does a lot more damage than it does good, forcing more time spent on multiplayer then on an amazing single player.


Plus: You have to buy Multiplayer, if you want other things than just Co-Op.

[ThunderHog]

I have to agree with Nedley- I am pretty disapointed with the game. :( I and a bunch of my buddies enjoy playing in skirmish mode together, as a team, and I don't see that as an option. I get two guys to crawl around and throw knives? You have to be kidding me! WICKED FALSE ADVERTISING.
The fun of the game is deploying units and gaining ground as a team. I would take a refund right now if I could. I don't understand why game developers have something that people like, and then they make huge substantive changes like this. or fail to see what it is the gamers are doing with it and don't expand on it and capitalize.
All game developers are missing the boat on cooperative play. That mode is always the ugly sister in game releases, and it should be given priority. The first game that makes it so will take off. Gamers WANT this mode. I enjoy playing with my buddies to gain ground and win a battle cooperatively. The lack of maps in previous releases for this mode is a drag as well but I still play it, as I will now finding myself disapointed and disgusted with MoW Viet Nam. :evil:

[kane1]

This series started with squad based battles. That's when the cool things about these games were important. I started playing SHoWW2 but I think there was one before that. In the next one FoW the squads got a little bigger along with the maps. With MoW the large-scale battles started and then Gamers started complaining about all the micro-managing. So OK MoW, MoWRT, and MoWAS big battles lots of units. Now MoWV back to the squads, sounds cool!

[ThunderHog]

Seems to me they make enough money that they could accomodate all the players of the game. Instead, it is obvious they just wanted to make it easier for them$elve$.
Looks like MowVN was really a follow up to MoWRT not MoWAS.
i'll be pushing for a refund. Looks like I am done with MoW series. My buddies and I played CoH for years, until we found MoW AS. I thought I would be playing for a long time.

[Arjuna]

WICKED FALSE ADVERTISING.



I can't remember seeing a single ad for MOW:V, and every preview I read described the game exactly as it is was released. MOWAS was made by a different team, and I thought everyone knew that it was multiplayer focused while MOW:V would be focused on the campaign.

[Nike-it]

Arjuna is absolutely right about SP focus in Vietnam. We never said that it would give same MP experience as Assault Squad. Vietnam was developed by the same team as Red Tide and at the beginning any MP modes were not planned. Complaining about the lack of MP experience in this situation is a bit strange.

[ThunderHog]

Complaining about the lack of MP experience in this situation is a bit strange.
How disingenuous is that statement? This was like going into McDonalds to buy a burger, and they give you a tuna roll.
Not every gamer reads every written nuance about an upcoming game. If you play a game and you like it, alot, then you look forward to the next one. Typically it has the same name as the preceding game so you feel safe in assuming it will be the same sort of gameplay. Is that stupid or naive, or wrong to expect that? I don't think so. All you have to do is watch the trailer for the game..one of real gameplay.. and you are MISLED into believing you would have control of units shown in the trailer. There should have been a disclaimer about the game on every ad, or download page that this is not the same type of game as the previous. Instead I see "coop mode", in the release details, and what does that mean? That you get to share one squad of 5 guys and crawl around and throw knives? So lame guys, seriously. How great would it have been to re-enact Khe San for example? How about a list like this to work with that would have allowed players to control either side in these epic battles? http://www.vietnam-war.info/battles/ There should be player controlled units of every kind and at least the ability to call in F-4 napalm bombing runs, gunship attacks, artillery...etc etc etc.
Your company failed to see what and why MoW AS was so succesful and why they picked up so many new players, and you failed to disclose and or deliver.

[NoneSuch]

To be fair Thunder it's more like going in to mcdonalds and buying a burger you've not read the ingrediants of, and then complaining that it doesn't have what you wanted. You only have yourself to blame that you bought a game you didn't read up on, and it's ridiculous to blame the developers that it's not been suited to your exact prefrences.

It's not even the same studio which made Assault Squad. Digitalmindsoft, the guys behind assault squad, merely helped 1C with Vietnam.

Look, I didn't buy Vietnam because I read up on the game and realized that it wasn't what I wanted. I plan on getting it when it goes on sale in the future.

[Fred DM]

To be fair Thunder it's more like going in to mcdonalds and buying a burger you've not read the ingrediants of, and then complaining that it doesn't have what you wanted. You only have yourself to blame that you bought a game you didn't read up on, and it's ridiculous to blame the developers that it's not been suited to your exact prefrences.

It's not even the same studio which made Assault Squad. Digitalmindsoft, the guys behind assault squad, merely helped 1C with Vietnam.


this. from day one the game was announced as focussing on squad-based special operations throughout the campaign. they even published biographies of the squad mates you were to command on the official website.

i, too, find it disappointing that they didn't include at least a few larger scale conventional battles as single missions (perhaps the 5 S.E. bonus missions are more in line with this concept), but i've known from the start that the campaign would focus - exactly like the original Soldiers: Heroes of WWII - on a small group of elite soldiers behind enemy lines. in a way, Men of War is going back to its roots with Vietnam.

ideally, however, they should have mixed squad-based special operations with large-scale conventional battles. perhaps following both the exploits of an SOG detachment behind enemy lines and a Marine regiment pushing on in parallel. that would also have made the campaign a bit longer as 5 missions per side aren't much.

[ThunderHog]

It's not even the same studio which made Assault Squad. Digitalmindsoft, the guys behind assault squad, merely helped 1C with Vietnam..
Seriously, you expect an average gamer to know what studio did what? Come on, really. :confused: If that is the case, the Digitalmidsoft should have helped..MORE.
What you are seeing here from me, is a very,very disappointed FAN of this game. I doubt many average gamers talked as much about MoW-AS as I did, raved about it in fact, posted it on my FB, and clan website, encouraged and cajoled players to buy it, and am probably personally resonsible for 20 -30 copies SOLD.
I find it appalling that you guys will just skip over the logic I am conveying and dismiss it as , "Oh, he should have known."

[Fred DM]

Seriously, you expect an average gamer to know what studio did what? Come on, really. :confused: If that is the case, the Digitalmidsoft should have helped..MORE.
What you are seeing here from me, is a very,very disappointed FAN of this game. I doubt many average gamers talked as much about MoW-AS as I did, raved about it in fact, posted it on my FB, and clan website, encouraged and cajoled players to buy it, and am probably personally resonsible for 20 -30 copies SOLD.
I find it appalling that you guys will just skip over the logic I am conveying and dismiss it as , "Oh, he should have known."
yes, but surely you did take a look at the game's product description, on Steam or elsewhere. from the moment the official website was launched, it was clear that the game would focus on squad-based tactics. what has been advertised has been delivered, yet you claim to have been a victim of false advertisement.

not doing even elementary product research in advance of a purchase does not make you a victim of false advertisement. the information has been out there for months. it's your own fault if you decided not to seek it out.

that said, you certainly have a right to be disappointed.

[ThunderHog]

yeah it's not misleading at all... like what was the name of the version of this game that I did like? Oh, that's right Men of War ASSAULT SQUAD

[nca_92]

yeah it's not misleading at all... like what was the name of the version of this game that I did like? Oh, that's right Men of War ASSAULT SQUAD

Well...you can call assault squads in the game right? jaajjaj

Now seriously, you should have read the description of the game. I like Red Tide so I bought this game thinking I would have a similar experience. You can't buy blindly.

P.D. Assault Squad is an awesome game but is MP focus. And I think the name is because of the skirmish missions. What do you say Instict?

[Fred DM]

yeah it's not misleading at all... like what was the name of the version of this game that I did like? Oh, that's right Men of War ASSAULT SQUAD

so you admit you didn't actually take a look at the game's description, and now, somehow, it's the company's fault instead of your own? :confused:

if anything, Assault Squad is the exception in the MoW series. all other installments are rather singleplayer-centric and feature a story-driven campaign instead of victory point skirmishes. anyone who's played more than 1 entry in the series would know this.

[kane1]

squad-based special operations with large-scale conventional battles. perhaps following both the exploits of an SOG detachment behind enemy lines and a Marine regiment pushing on in parallel. that would also have made the campaign a bit longer as 5 missions per side aren't much.

I really like the sound of that!

[ThunderHog]

anyone who's played more than 1 entry in the series would know this.

Yeah Fred. I only played this one, for five minutes and then I came in here to have a pissin contest with you, defender of the faith, ffs.. Must be nice to know everything. I am trying to get some kind of reply from 1C admin.
I have played and completed the original, RT and AS. My #%$&*^% point is that the last game is usually, on this planet anyway, followed up by another more like it than the ones before that and I am disappointed they went back to the old way. Seems to me they could have fit some skirmish coop in a version about Viet Nam. It's a hell of an opportunity but I understand what the bottom line is. They have no interest in continuing to draw in an entire other category of player, and put no importance on keeping them. Enjoy crawling around 5 vs 200 with a knife guys, really. Anyone want my CD-Key?

[bomblol]

I have to question why they would do that after coming off of the back of such an excellent game (MOWAS that is).
Granted, what they have developed is fair enough - but put some polish on it.

I have units with terrible path finding (especially when they go into the water). Units that die in a second - I do enjoy the missions where the AI has snipers and youve got no way of detecting them at all (yeah you see the aimer come up but thats it) until they've fired and youve lost 1/4 of your squad 30 seconds into the mission.
Definatley a game of trial and error.

But back to the AI.. armored vehicles do not operate in even a remotley similar fashion to MOWAS.
You would think they would have used the same AI if they were going to just reskin and release as an SP game.
I have armored vehicles and men mounted on the top MG's not even swivel to engage when enemy infantry are directly in front of the vehicle.
I dont mean standing on top of, I mean 10 metres out front in clear LOS.

Using the helo's on the SP missions is a bit of a hit and miss affair, you target point X and instead of even missing and say hitting point T, U, V or W (as in somewhere NEAR the point of target) - its going miles off and either half the map before or after.

I am an avid MOW fan, but this has just been one dissapointment after the next.
I will continue to support 1C as Im sure they can pull somthing out of their backsides, but why release a clearly incomplete product?

[bomblol]

Oh and I should also mention just the general infantry AI.
I have a 4 man squad, fair enough, but when it is set to engage anything sighted, why does it not engage a unit in front of it?

Often I am finding I am having to select my man, or unit and tell them to fire on enemy units when they are only a short distance away.

Id be happy to sit there and detail many more points, but would any of it be taken in to consideration anyway?

[nedley]

Because of the early steam glitch - my CD key was never used. Deleted this piece of crap game and sold my CD key to some poor sod on the forums who thinks this game will be good even after reading countless compaints.

That person will no doubt download a pirate copy and use my CD key to access 'multiplayer' (using this term VERY loosely). Made my money back. No refund? Well, **** you. I suggest all who are as disappointed as I do the same.

Probably plenty of keys up for grabs!

[Fred DM]

Because of the early steam glitch - my CD key was never used. Deleted this piece of crap game and sold my CD key to some poor sod on the forums who thinks this game will be good even after reading countless compaints.

That person will no doubt download a pirate copy and use my CD key to access 'multiplayer' (using this term VERY loosely). Made my money back. No refund? Well, **** you. I suggest all who are as disappointed as I do the same.

Probably plenty of keys up for grabs!
i'm not sure if what you did is allowed under the SSA... and certainly, by now, it's impossible to sell your key.

[nedley]

It's also not allowed to refuse consumer rights or refunds under the Sale Of Goods Act (UK).

So long as the CD-Key is not bound to an account when you open MP (Gamespy) then it works!

[Fred DM]

So long as the CD-Key is not bound to an account when you open MP (Gamespy) then it works!
is the game still in your account after you've sold your key? that's illegal. you are not allowed to keep possession of any part of the game after you've sold your license, if the license may be sold at all.

what happens if you start the game now that you've sold your key? :confused:

It's also not allowed to refuse consumer rights or refunds under the Sale Of Goods Act (UK).

Valve's an American company, though. and you didn't purchase the game through a British subsidiary (there isn't one).

[nedley]

/Care? The game probably still works SP.

Got money back in my pocket and income from potential customer taken away. If they refuse to address serious issues with their products, what can we do but find our own methods of redress? It's reasons like what happened with this game and poor product support that cause pirating. If there's no support or benefit from actually buying a game, there's no incentive to pay for it!!!!!

[Fred DM]

/Care? The game probably still works SP.

*lol* until Valve suspends your account...


Got money back in my pocket and income from potential customer taken away. If they refuse to address serious issues with their products, what can we do but find our own methods of redress? It's reasons like what happened with this game and poor product support that cause pirating. If there's no support or benefit from actually buying a game, there's no incentive to pay for it!!!!!
what are you talking about? there's been a hotfix and they said they're working on a patch. the game hasn't been out for as much as a week yet, and you've already decided to sell it due to poor support?!? :confused: you didn't even give them a chance at supporting the game for crying out loud!

[nedley]

You clearly don't use steam pal. Once you've bought any MOW title on steam, it downloads, and they send you the CD-Key (or you view it by right clicking the game... You login to gamespy and a pop-up appears asking for the CD-Key, entering your own details here binds the CD-Key to the account.

If they are willing to release the game with as many issues, this 'special edition' none-sense requiring paying extra to do things that should be included, and half the features they promised on the pre-purchase (steam) information, then that is more than a chance I and many others are prepared to give them. No patch can fix that.

[Fred DM]

and half the features they promised on the pre-purchase (steam) information,
what, exactly? :confused:

[bomblol]

The issue with steam was already addressed.
It was somthing to do with release timers - your steam account recieved its associated key a bit after the launch due to a steam deley.

Long story short, your steam account has the key associated with it, but hasnt been tied to your gamespy account which is used to log on to multiplayer.

There is no real way to resell a steam key and what this bloke has done is put his own steam account at risk and potentially wasted the money of some user on the forums.
Can understand being annoyed, but hes gone about it the wrong way.

Lets just hope his steam account doesnt randomly come up as ''Under Investigation".