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Helios
09-06-2011, 07:43 PM
It just occurred to me that the Life Light spell might be pretty good for the battle against Karador (I assume this is why the Tree of Life Sprout quest gives you the spell right outside his castle). Is it actually useful in practice? I'll give it a shot in my game this time around, but I just started. Has anyone had any success using the spell in that battle?

Edit: If it only makes undead units run away one hex, then it's probably better to spend the mana elsewhere. I didn't realize it only made them run one hex.

Vulture
09-07-2011, 02:02 PM
It does work like that. It makes them leave the area. It is indeed useful with Karador if you have the spellcast and mana to spare (aka not as a warrior ><).
It could be better, tho, I agree. And I would really love a spell like that for the Archdemon Baal battle.
Just yesterday I was reminded how much of a cunt Baal is >< If he wasn't so dumb to punch out all his mana on Demon Portals so he is oom after 4 rounds, he wouldn't be beatable without losses whatsoever.

Usually I'd mind changing the subject of a thread but given the circumstances that we're only 4 active members at the moment on here anyway: who gives a crap ? ^^

Screen in the attachment.

Warrior lvl 28, 24k ldr, 26 Atk, 16 Def, 13 Int
133 Ancient Vamps
299 Vamps
119 Demons
187 Demoness
1849 Skeleton Archers

Helios
09-07-2011, 07:35 PM
I was so desperate for space against Karador that I thought this would have been a good tactic, but I was too busy blinding his archers and necromancers and dispelling hypnosis or fear to get a chance to cast anything like Life Light. When I beat him on level 18, I ran around my house cheering. I was incredibly lucky to win--on some turns I let Karador have my hypnotized unit, just so they wouldn't take a crushing blow from the 170 or so black knights waiting behind another stack. I only won because I teleported a stack of thorn warriors to his necromancers, which caused his army crushing one stack of black knights (and other more negligible units) to make a dash for the thorns and giving me the time to move my army into position over the bodies of the dead and reform a three unit front line (with the Ice Ball).

And congrats on Baal with no losses! I think I ressed all but a few units after with my Paladin. I usually get bored ressing after round 25 and just finish. My fewest casualties in a playthrough has been ~1400 counting the training grounds, and 25% of that total being dismissed troops.

I like that he uses Demon Portal--it helps me to shore up my front line by blocking a space. :p Mass Magic Shackles has been pretty helpful for me with him, and I had surprisingly good support from a stack of Knights with morale boosted from a baton and the armor, along with Circle Attack. They held the line and cleaned up those Archdemons trying to break up rear units. I think Holy Anger is one of the most underrated skills in the game with such a massive boost against some of the toughest bosses like Karador and Baal.

And don't mind changing subjects in here, like you said, I'm thrilled to find anyone with a pulse in here to discuss how to improve my gameplay!

And I'm still curious on EXP: what do you have in the way of EXP boosting skills on equips on your Warrior? I was at level 28 at Baal, too when I had 3x Learning, 3x KoL, a Tactics Treatise, and half of the game Rina with a modded baby that gave 20% EXP. If you were that high for him without some of those skills, then maybe KoL and the TT aren't needed to hit level 30 on Impossible.

Vulture
09-08-2011, 02:33 PM
Well, I had 1 point in learning and was wearing the Tactics Treatise for a while for the lack of a good second artifact (all late in the game for me). No KoL or Blood Band.
And then again, I used all the tricks you can, like buying every upgradeable item and upgrade them (I have 2 Archmage's Staffs and sold them. I never had 2 with a mage and now I get two as a Warrior). Also I killed everything outside the Labyrinth and Murock (logically, Key Quest and all) before I went to Baal. Nothing special actually.

And I made sure to beat the early bosses on as low a lvl as possible for they yield the most exp. Like the Giant Turtle. Killed her with one Ancient Vampire (of course I made sure I have one in the game) and random ranged units incl Archmage to give the vamps their shield. And casting magic spring. The turtle cannot kill the Ancient Vampire in one hit with those buffs so he regenerates after each round giving you enough time to kill the Turtle (which ar lvl 3 and some 10-odd Bowmen takes a while ^^).

I also complete every quest in a way so that I get the most XP out of them. For instance if you hoist King Mark's flags over the Frog's houses you get more XP. Most people would make it so that the quest ends in favor of one of the frogs because they'll have some desired item or troop after that and because hoisting Mark's flag will fail the quest for Bagaba/Squelch retroactively (but you keep the XP you got :P ) and people don't want a failed quest in their summary. But you get to fight one more frog castle and can complete the quest in favor of Frogis, to boot.
There are other examples which I can't think of now.

btw: funniest shit ever. Yesterday I killed Dragon Dreddho in the tournament in 3 rounds (before he could even begin to think about casting Geyser xD ) because he was as stupid as to lightning my Vampire bats that were in the top position. But everybody else on my team was out of reach. So what happened ? He Lightning'd his entire army, shocking them. So nobody except the Evil Beholders that stood right in front of the Vampire Bats was able to attack in round one with their one Action Point ^^ My Skellies took out 122 Knights in two turns. And the Dragons suicided themselves by attacking my two vampire stacks and the two demons (taking marginal damage only. I had to ress ONE Demon ^^), dying from mass Dragon Slayer'd supported retaliation (Demonesses slew 8 Red Dragons without (!) the Whip equipped)
Long story short, I didn't even have to use Time Back so I just Underground Blade'd them once and then Black Hole'd them all. Round 1 Icy Thorns for the Skellies ofc. I was lucky he cast Pygmy on my Demonesses in round two instead of Geyser (idiot ^^). And his last stack died before they could move in round 3.

Easy Dragon Slayer Sword and know what the good thing is ? I had one before already. Now I have 2 Dragon Slayer Swords and Dragon Slayer spell at lvl 3 (mass) :>
But I only wear one of them because Demetrius makes more sense to me in the other slot. -20% ldr for Demons and I currently run with Demons and -esses. At the cost of one Atk. Fair deal :>

@Edit: dismissed troops do not count as losses, dude. Only what is displayed as such after battles qualifies as losses.

Helios
09-08-2011, 10:15 PM
Thanks for the info on your EXP. I didn't know you got more EXP for that Ancient Vamp Turtle trick. Those are some interesting ways to boost EXP. Is there a way to start a battle with Vamps in bat form? It sure would be nice to start with that initiative boost.

And that's one hilarious outcome for the tournament! Nice of him to reserve his geyser for his own death. That fight was a breeze for me last time through, too, as King Mark had a Dragon Slayer sword for sale at the start of my game. It's amazing how much damage units do with two of those equipped. I wasted Ultrax battles in two rounds each (with minor casualties) with those on.

How do you achieve no losses with the Haas incarnation Dragon Weir and his geyser-spamming? You have to wait for him to run out of mana, right, eating the spell many times? Or do you beat him down as quickly as possible and hypnotize his last unit so he doesn't get a turn? (I hadn't thought of that previously.)

Vulture
09-09-2011, 01:21 AM
Yeah, exactly the same with me. The Dragon Slayer sword was available from scratch. I didn't even intend to pick a game that has that. It was a bonus from searching a game that has Resurrection and Sacrifice as early as on the Islands; Target, Phantom, Stone Skin, Magic Spring, Dragon Arrows, all my desired troops (of which Ancient Vampire is a must for getting past the turtle without a single fight. Unless I play mage and/or have Shamans to heal for example Magic shielded Knights or Horsemen tanking it)

About the Bats. No, there is none except you get actual Vampire Bats which I did on this playthrough. But you get the initiative with Dark Commander and Zombie Rina. All undeads and Demoness (Ruby) move before Black Dragons every round :> Demons in the first round at least. Vital.

About the Incarnation: Second option is desired. First option is more likely. Abuse the shit out of Drain Life and time Time Back with sacrifice. Double-sacc the tanks for instance to bring back archers and supporters once each, then Time Back. After that: one or two rounds of saccing Vampire Bats and Ancient Vampire Bats depending on your mana reserves (which as a warrior is a pain in the ass) to bring back whatever needs it and then play the mana game with Charm by the Demonesses on a male humanoid troop (works with Imps and Demons, too, as I just found out all over again btw) or with Beholders or just using Gift (impossible as a Warrior mana-wise).

Helios
09-10-2011, 04:37 AM
Yes, I didn't think I'd chose a game that had that sword at the start, but had too many other things perfect about the game to not choose it. I only used the sword against enemy heroes prior to meeting dragons since I had no shot at winning the suppression battles until much later.

And thanks for the info about the bats--I don't recall ever seeing them for sale in that form, but then again, I wasn't looking for them prior to this game! As for ancient vampires, there's no way to tell on the Scanner if one is going to pop out of a carved coffin until you actual use one, is there? I didn't get lucky enough with my Undead army to get any ancients, but the game dealt me cursed ghosts and decaying zombies at the ghost ships in Darion. I wasn't going to make them available to myself until at least the IoF. I didn't know they could pop up so early.

And thanks again for the additional resurrection strategies. I think the lack of mana for doing so is my biggest drawback to the warrior class.

Vulture
09-10-2011, 03:09 PM
No, sadly you cannot tell if an Ancient Vamp jumps out of a carved coffin. But the chances are so incredibly minimal it shouldn't matter. Sarcophagi have a much better chance and the Savegame Scanner can tell you that, luckily :> So s'all good.

Btw Decaying Zombies are crap and Cursed Ghosts are very fragile and constantly rise over the leadership maximum. You might want to look for alternatives :>

Helios
09-11-2011, 07:27 AM
Ah! A sarcophagus! That explains it. I thought everyone kept starting new games until a carved coffin finally popped one in Marshan Swamp.

And yes, I don't like either Decaying Zombies nor Cursed Ghosts, but I'm not giving myself access to Necromancers, Black Knights, and Bone Dragons until later. I almost never even end up having the Zombies do anything, as the CG and vampires soak up all the melee attention and they'd just needlessly die if I sent them in. They're just the protectors of my Skelly Archers.

I've put some Ancient Vamps first available to me in the Eastern Islands upon defeating the ghost ship there.

Vulture
09-11-2011, 02:39 PM
Well, back then we did. Before there was a savegame scanner.

If you don't grant yourself access to Necros, Ancient Vamps and Bone Dragons (Black Knights blow ^^) yet why don't you just take Royal Snakes and Evil Beholders until then ?

Helios
09-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Past that part now. Ancient Vamps are much better than Decaying Zombies. I guess with both kinds of vampires the Black Knights are pretty redundant as tanks--this army doesn't need one with the bats restoring themselves.

Vulture
09-13-2011, 04:00 PM
Except against full undead and plant hero armies. I'd bring the Black Knights for Time Back tanking if I had to stick with undeads. The 30% physical resistance and 50 more hitpoints could come in handy if you can't restore yourself :>

Which makes me think of what I hate the most in my games: the Deserted Castle in Verlon Forest. I ******* hate it with all my guts >< Because this early in the game you just don't have the loss preservation techniques you wish you had. So for me as a no-casualty player I have to come back when I'm over the level.

Helios
09-14-2011, 08:30 PM
OK, I'll keep some BKs in reserve for those battles. I was starting to get reckless with vampires until I ran into all plants and other undead armies. And yes, I hate the old castle, too. I always have to come back to it later, along with Enemen.

But my least favorite place in the game, by far is the IoF. I don't know why, but it always takes me several RL days to get through there, and is such a grind for me. I don't think I've ever gotten any significantly better equipment there, and don't like most of the units available there either (other than the Shamans). It seems like I should be able to breeze through, but am usually not strong enough to dive right in against the enemies there and end up sailing around grabbing everything that isn't nailed down. I especially hate the pirate ships, which I hate tracking down.

Vulture
09-15-2011, 12:22 AM
I love the Islands ^^ Everything is for free ! I go there at lvl 3 and snatch 95% of the goodies and shops. When I return from my shopping (more like shoplifting, eh?) trip from the Islands I just rape Darion in just 1-2 hours tops until I feel strong enough for castle Bogacho (which I wish I could do earlier but playing no loss you just can't rush it too much). I mean I end up with Reaper at 29 or 30 either way but I just HATE playing without Time Back.

But I agree on the pirate ship issue. They're a pain in the ass to play and track down to begin with.

Helios
09-16-2011, 12:33 AM
That's a better approach. I don't know why I haven't tried it. It's not like beating the turtle boss is hard and I don't care how many days it takes me to beat the game, either, so I wouldn't mind losing in-game time to get through there easier. And it makes some sense to get that extra "quest" from the orc outside the embassy after the peace treaty is signed anyway (I've never gone back that late into the story missions). I'll probably do your approach from now on.

Vulture
09-16-2011, 02:51 AM
All about sharing experiences, huh ? :>

I finished my Warrior game just now.

Lvl 30 and a bit
49 Days
27 Atk
15 Def
13 Int
110 Rage
98 Mana (Although I had 6 roasted rats (they wouldn't give me a 7th in this game :<) Ancient Amulet ftw :>
Zombie Rina as wife throughout the entire game.
26590 Ldr

Final team was:

147 Ancient Vampires (Bats)
332 Vampires
132 Demons
300something Inquisitors (don't remember because I only used them for some bossfights that I feared would become long due to resurrection orgies; used Skellies 95% of the time, half of it with Dragon Arrows)
166 Shamans
using Cloak Of Shadows and Vampire Ring, Well Of Mana Belt, Cloak Of Wizardry, Miner's Helmet (love this thing so much :>) Fought Haas at night (you can imagine the numbers dished out by the Vampires with these items and 3/3 Nighttime Operations and Dark Commander ^^ They had something around 80 Atk)

Had a funny bug when fighting Bagud. After I beat him the dialogue would start all over and I had to fight him again ! Which I tried but it's kinda hard with Skellies out of control due to over-saccing them in the kill before (ONCE in my time as a player I had a situation where the amount gained through sacrifice was exactly the amount of Skellies that I had lost ^^ This time ofc not) and I was out of mana (20 or so left). I reloaded, killed him again and then it worked.

Haas was a big ol' joke this time. As you can see in the screenshot, he only had 1 stack of Blacks and one stack of Emeralds. Reds are predictable as f.uck so that was just a joke, although they were 4 stacks. Mass Dragon Slayer and went for it. Haas sheeped my Shamans twice, then my Demons twice, then pygmied my Inquisitors and sheeped the Shamans again. I dispelled it all and he never bothered casting Armageddon :D It took me 10 rounds altogether including resurrecting fallen ones because I didn't have to ress any (Ancient)Vampire as they both one-shot-critted themselves to max number ^^

I didn't even use my second Dragon Slayer Sword and instead used Demetrius because I wanted to try it without changing anything. I had a Plan B tho. Use the second sword and bring Knights (I took Iron Fist just for that. I ended with 0/0/0 runes left and some 800k gold ^^) instead of the Inquisitors and try a quick kill without much ressing. But apparently that wasn't needed :>

In the end my Might tree was completely filled out except I only had 2/3 Combat Readiness. I took Tolerance 2/2 in the Mind tree and except of Glory I maxed nothing. Just for requirements. That way my Inquisitors had +1 morale (Baton) and dished out a fine 15k Crit against the Bone Dragons :> I took Tolerance solely for the purpose of bringing Knights and Inquis and not having their morale downed by the Demons. Well, in the end no knights were needed ^^
In the Magic tree I went down until Archmage 3/3 for Shamans and Inquisitors (166 Shamans are huge, man ^^) and took everything else except Destroyer (duh!), except Chaos only 2/3 for Sacrifice and the Mana/max Scrolls talent 2/3. 3/3 Healer really helps reducing your ress times.

I was very lazy with my Spirits. This time I wasn't aiming for perfection with lvl30 on all Spirits (pain in the ass if you ask me since I rely on Time Back in round 2). Reaper hit lvl 30 before the Labyrinth even.
Time Back, 1-5, rest 3, 20 rage
Soul Drain, 40% or 50%, rest 1, 70 rage

Chargers 3/3 at 6 each. Lazy me. But my mana pool was so huge I really didn't feel I would've needed more anyway; and except on huge ldr buffs (promotion, ldr at lvlup) I never went past round 10 anyway.
Icy Thorns at 15 mana, rest 2

Never found Rahha's Shield or a dagger. Didn't care because I planned it as an Undead mainly playthrough to begin with. Gladiator Sword only in the Knight's Tent in the Labyrinth (no 50 battles left ofc). Had an early Banner Of True Faith which I was angry that I couldn't use because of my Undeads ^^
Had Telescopic Sight and Ale Barrel but never used them because The former only applies to the unit's base atk (which with the Skellies is practicall nonexistent) and I never used another archer. I really became a melee player... :)

Any questions ? :>

Helios
09-17-2011, 01:16 AM
Wow, knowing what I know now, that sounds like an ultimate army setup! And all those items and skills in combination are killer! I can only imagine what it would have been like had you gotten an Equilibrium Sword and build it into a Sword of Darkness. (I've only seen that sword twice.)

That's a lot of Mana for a Warrior. When I didn't know any better, I ended with like 53 Mana, including the Roasted Rats. If I'm not mistaken, can't you get 8 RRs including the Dwarf in the belly of the whale?

That sucks with Bagud! The same thing happened to me in Murock last time, both with Bagud and the hero fight against that priest that seems to be in every game. Must be something buggy with the heroes there.

Goading Haas into Sheeping seems to be pretty easy if you have the right army setup. He did something similar to that with his Mana against my Paladin. That is a huge number of Shamans! I don't think I've ever seen that many. It sounds like you did a great job of using your runes if you ended with none! I've always had some glut leftover, even when I went so far as to count how many I'd get via the Scanner and leveling up my character via the cheat console in the Trial to see how many runes he would get. (I totally planned out my current Warrior that way, too. The game doesn't give nearly enough Mind runes to the Warrior and Mage, imo.) My plan has him with something like 30-40 Might runes leftover at lv 30.

It's interesting that you didn't give your Lina quite the workout level-wise. I didn't know until last time through that you get more crits when the Rage meter is higher, so I've been more lax in using spirits to exploit that in my current game.

I hate it when the game gives a great item like the Gladiator Sword that late. It really should drop all of those X victory items before Karador. I hate having to break down the Pain Skull during those tougher late-game battles when you need the Mana. I've had the game (this time!) put the Pain Skull for sale at the Dwarven Necromancer. I read on the forums that Noric can drop it, but that might be bs.

In my current Undead game, I got the True Faith Banner at King Mark's castle to start, and equipped it in Darion, getting the runes out, and sold it after :( since I didn't want that whole-game morale penalty. That Banner is awesome--it's like a baton + a good shield, and all those runes.

Thanks for the report. It's interesting to see how your spirits and troops ended up. Your Demons and Skellies dominated (heh). I've never seen such a high percentage of kills on a unit, let alone two. Did you get Demons early on? I've seen them at the Dragon Tooth Tavern for sale. Early sacrificing would be awesome to get a stack of them going that soon!

Vulture
09-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Well, it doesn't matter when you get them (unless it's as late as Ellinia, Labyrinth or Murock) because you only have to fight 2 battles to be able to go everywhere I want before that. 3 if I want to check Ellinia and The Lands of The Dead but that's not on the table at lvl 4 ofc ^^
1. Robber with the Plugens
2. Turtle
+ Bribe Lucky James
Be in Demonis at lvl 4 and get Demons or whatever the f.uck else you want :>

I don't remember if in this particular game I had them in the Tavern or went to get them. I know that in my current Mage game they were in the Tavern.

About the heroes: sometimes it's really strange. In that game the Skeleton Kemilhu wasn't in the Labyrinth but in Murock Oo. never had that before.

About the Shamans: well, I skilled 3/3 Archmage. 20% less leadership is huge if you have the Runes to spare.

btw I had an Equilibrium sword. Just too late so I couldn't turn it into Darkness. Shame really ^^ But well, Dragon Slayer is better anyway. Boosting all troops, not only the 2 Vamps ^^

The Lina thing was a mistake. As I said in an earlier post somewhere, the Warrior game was an old one from at least 1 year ago. I checked it last week with the Scanner and saw that it's actually awesome but it was too late to level-up Lina all the way to 30.

Helios
09-17-2011, 08:13 PM
Level 4! I've got to try that out next time, and will probably have to for all Archers and a Mage. That would solve some of the item issues. It seems to me that Karador always has has something good that takes a lot of battles to unlock. Last game, I got the Pain Skull from him and the promotion from King Mark gave me the Gladiator Sword, hence me rushing Karador before killing anything else in Ellinia.

The skeleton was in Murock? I've never seen that one.

I'm looking forward to my Equilibrium Sword in my current game, which I'll get for getting the peace treaty signed. My Undeads will love shredding the humanoids with it. I'm pretty sure the Land of the Dead is going to be the hardest area for my Undeads, with few battles that include any units for the vamps to restore themselves.

Vulture
09-19-2011, 02:31 AM
Gah, I hate Mages... I wasn't able to Sacrifice anything because my innate spellpower is already too great and my Sacrifice kills every stack I have except my Demons (when Archmage-shielded). Which is pointless as I will get Resurrection in Demonis first. Except Royal Snakes but it kills so many that I can't bring them back with Inquis. And Gift is out of reach for the moment.

I totally forgot that in my last games as Warr/Pal I had 1 or 2 int early on and I could sacrifice and Inquisitor-Ress away as much as I wanted.

Now I have to wait with reinforcing my ranks until after I bribed Lucky and got Resurrection. Killing the Robber with the Plugens without a single unit gained... :sad:
Stupid Inquisitors should be resurrecting Demons ! Although that is quite antithetical to the logic of the setting but I don't care, I wanna have my vampires maxed for the Turtle ! :evil:

Helios
09-19-2011, 10:49 PM
I hated that about my Mage, too. He killed so many with Sacrifice that I couldn't restore them all very easily. I was tempted to remove his Int-boosting equipment for some fights, but it sounds like it's your base Int that's already causing the problem. That sucks.

Vulture
09-20-2011, 12:21 AM
Yeah, it makes it impossible to kill Lucky James only with free goodies. The key units are scarce. Only 2 Demons while I could have 15 or so, same for Horsemen and Knights. The only high hp lvl 4 unit I have available on the Islands are Polar Bears and it's not enough for a kill without losses because I only have 19 Inquisitors and those resurrect a whopping ONE Polar Bear...
I tried bringing Priests to heal them up but then I lack damage to take his units out before Priests and Inquis run out of charges. 2 heals and one ress isn't enough, sadly. With Archmages to shield the Polar Bears and Stone Skin + Target being mandatory for a no losses kill I just can't dish out the damage necessary. And I only have Magic Runes for one point in Higher Magic (I miss 2 for 2/3).

GNAAARRRR... looks like I have to pay up. I hate playing a Mage. With a Warrior I would have picked one unnecessary fight against a random Greenwort humanoid army and sacrificed / drain lifed my troop to max ldr and just bashed Lucky no-loss-style with Vampires / Sacc at lvl 5 with only 3 battles prior to that. But no, with a 7 int Mage you can't pull that off :/

Vulture
09-20-2011, 03:39 PM
In case you wanna know how it looks if you beat the Turtle at lvl 4 and have Higher Magic at 5, here are the pics ^^

Helios
09-20-2011, 11:24 PM
Nicely done! I assume you reached that level merely by doing the Plugens fight, and other fetch quests that didn't involve fighting?

Vulture
09-21-2011, 12:30 AM
Si !

Vulture
09-24-2011, 03:08 PM
So, I'm lvl 12 now (Temptres Isshara, Treaty with the Dwarves, Good Beer! and exp shrines gave 2 levels each ^^) and have only fought about ~7 battles. Robber, Turtle, Zerock activation battle, Trial Of Will, Zombie Miller Ring suppression and a thorns battle or two in order to Sacrifice/Ressurection my stack of 5 Vampires up to 88 to be ready for Bogacho castle which I easily did without losses.
I then cleared Greenwort (I just love the automatic mana replenishment at the Magic School :>), leveling Spirits and boosting the Sprites I stored after the trainig missions, the 269 Lake Fairies I found at the trader in Demonis and my current main team (Ancient Vampire Bats, Vampires, Demons, Skeleton Archers, Demonesses) to over maximum.
It's still tedious tho, because the opposing armies don't even have as much health combined as my sacrifice does damage to the Vampires xD So I still have to rely on using resurrect III after two Sacrifice Is on my Demons but that'll change as soon as I'm on the Islands.

But before that, I'll go pig out Egnum and grab the Crystals and Shamans from Karrakh in Ellinia :> Free loot ftw !

Helios
09-25-2011, 01:11 AM
Thanks for the report, Vulture. It's interesting to see how a game where you go around collecting resources goes. Pigging out Egnum is a great idea, too. I know what my Archers game is going to start by doing! It really only matters if you get one of those win X number of battle items if it's at Karador's Castle, the ensuing Lord promotion from King Mark, or if it's in Haas' Labyrinth or Murock. Do you try to get Fandor's Map without fighting much, too, and get the Cold Brook quest for the total +12 of every rune? I found it really hard to tag the Obelisk in the Gray Wasteland without fighting.

The Magic School in Greenwort fills your Mana every time you visit it?! I didn't know that! That would make things a lot swifter in Darion!

Vulture
09-25-2011, 03:36 AM
To be honest I knew it once and forgot it and just accidentally noticed it yesterday as I was doing a quest. Then I recalled it and just blew all my mana in every game (I'm so glad that sacrificing gives ~10 rage on avg, I'm always full) ^^

Btw there is literally nothing on the map in this game that you cannot reach easily without fighting (unless ofc the access is blocked through a battle-related quest). Except one mini island in Verlon forest. There's literally no space. The rest is piece of cake. Although it needs a little bit of practice. But I have been doing that for 2 years now and it's like I never did anything else ^^ Especially in the Grey Wasteland as there are not even half as many enemies on such little ground as, say, the Western Islands or Taron Mines.
There are like what, 8 stacks in the entire land ? You have that on the main island of the Westies even ^^

Thanks for reminding me of the Cold Brook. I constantly forget that when I'm scouting. I don't recall if Violetta accepts the Map before Karador is dead. Do you have any information on that ? You see, I usually don't scout'n'loot past Demonis because all I want is Reaper to not miss more than the 3 battles necessary to get him.

Helios
09-26-2011, 03:53 AM
That's great about the Magic Academy. Darion should be a breeze and the investment in Meditation could be more easily put off that way. BTW, when, if at all, do you invest in Alchemy?

No idea on Violetta and the map. I bet she wouldn't. That would just be weird if she did. Too bad, that would be a great source of runes! I'll try next time out and see.

I guess I need to brush up my skills on avoiding battles! I usually end up grumbling when I'm trying to avoid enemies in Marshan Swamp and the crypts.

Vulture
09-26-2011, 03:32 PM
You can clear all crypts' loot without a single battle. Except if you get a Vampire Bat on the map in the smallest one (the square one with the 2 sarcophagi and a skeleton in the wall).

Btw Meditation is never worth investing in at all whatsoever. Let's put it this way: especially as a Mage, where your rage inflow is weak and you are more likely to use Inquisitors in the first place, your source of mana and rage will be endless anyway which means you can always kite the last survivor and boost your mana before the battle ends. This is vital as a mage anyway because if you use Meditation you lose precious rage you can't afford to forgo.

I just finished clearing up Darion including Enemen. I'll let Noric live because he had the audacity to give me a Bronze Ring when I killed him (mofo -.-). I still don't have a wife. I wanna go with Xeona because I just need weapon slots. Until then I think I'll just go without a wife. The ridiculously low amount of Might runes so far tells me that I'm gonna be spending my fortune on them anyway. I don't want to lose too much money on a divorce.

Helios
09-27-2011, 05:48 AM
That's a good strategy for maintaining Mana, and a way to save a few Magic Runes! I've been trying to master the art of finishing battles with max Rage and Mana. A bit more frustrating without using Inquisitors the way I am for my current wacky games, but I can still do it pretty well. I can't wait for my Mage game.

I'm surprised you've already beaten Enemen! I always have a hard time with him.

Hopefully Noric will drop something better than a ring. He usually goes through a cycle of four different items. I'm really suspecting his drops are class-based, given that I haven't ever had him drop a ring during Warrior and Paladin testing. Maybe you'll get a Fire Necklace. My Paladin kept getting that really late in the game. :)

Vulture
09-27-2011, 06:08 AM
Well, I was already 15 when beating Enemen. The free quests in Ellinia and Land Of The Dead and clearing Darion made me 15 and I'm still way overpowered ^^ I have something around 11k Ldr as a mage and 26 intellect. Which is funny because I never nuke.

Mage is just too easy. Equip him like a warrior and play him like a warrior, only with the TREMENDOUS advantage of 2 spells per turn. Enemen is a joke with that. Infernal Swap my Vampires with a Necro or Skeleton Archer stack of his using my Demonesses and then just Target and Stone Skin. Timeback in the end of round two, sweep up free kills without retaliation using Ancient Vampire Bats, Royal Snakes and the Distant Attack skill of the Demonesses.

So, I tried setting up my archer play and it's terrible. I really hate the playstyle having no initiative and no melees that go first, attracting the enemy's attention. Most of the time the enemy goes first (Veteran Orcs and Goblins, lolol, they're in my face before I can even act) and is 2 or 3 tiles away. Using Demons as tanks is a terrible idea if you have no Demonesses to teleport them into the enemies' ranks with. And then, again, what would I do with the swapped enemy unit anyway as I have no melee left at my base line ? ^^

Naw-naw, that's not my game. Plus the damage really isn't too impressive. Except that of the Skeleton Archers but that's a given. Elves suck donkey balls once their double shot is out (even with Precision), Hunters are doing alright but not impressive, Cannoneers are just ridiculous. And all that although I have Elven Bow, Sight and Barrel now (3/3 Bowmen Commander, too). I saved before I went to get my archer lineup and that is what I'm going to load next time I play... disappointing, really.

Helios
09-27-2011, 06:20 AM
Well that would make Enemen a lot easier. I miss my Demons and Demonesses.

Man, my Archer game may get slaughtered even with editing in a +1 Initiative and Morale bonus to my Archer wife. (I'm deleting Feanora's +3 Int to compensate a bit). I was horrified when I looked at the leadership of units and saw that a level 1 Mage doesn't even have enough leadership to have a Cannoneer. The lack of leadership is going to compound the lack of damage I'll be able to dish out.

Vulture
09-27-2011, 06:35 AM
I think a warrior would be a more suitable character for a heavy archer team. But then again, I'd only bring 2 Archers and use Demon and Demoness + Shaman along. And then it's not really effective to wear 3 items that benefit archers only when you could just equip Atk and Ldr instead.

Maybe it's me tho. I like sticking to things I'm used to and have expertise on. As soon as I saw that I don't automatically have initiative (generally playing a Zombie Rina, Dark Commander game with Ancient Vampire Bats makes you become spoiled) I was about to hit F8 already. I decided to finish the battle though, ending up pumping out 60 mana to resurrect what has been hit by the "Running" opponents.
Maybe someone with more patience will have more fun playing that.

Helios
09-27-2011, 06:53 AM
I try a Mage and see. I may regret it, though.

Vulture
09-29-2011, 12:32 PM
Don't have much time to play atm.

Cleared the Western Islands and got me the Gremlin castle (forgot that the Gladiator Sword in my game is with a Skeleton in the castle (lol? ^^)). The castle is extremely hard to kite so I just decided to clear it instead. I really need the Might Runes asap ><

Helios
09-29-2011, 10:43 PM
That skeleton (the one stuck under a fallen wooden beam) has had at item 50% of the time I've played. Never that good, though!

Vulture
09-30-2011, 04:29 AM
For me it wasn't the one under the beam this time, it was the one just one room before the final cave with the round shield. It's easily missed.

Done with the Islands now, killed the Kraken in less than 5 rounds with no loss, see screen below. Mage is just too brutal in early and mid-game ^^ It's also easy Rage Spirit leveling with Inquisitors. I just keep Gifting them, producing mass rage while using the Demon's Summons, a Phantom and a charmed (Demoness) male humanoid unit (if available) simultaneously with Magic Spring. I make 60 Mana with one double cast and it's only lvl 2 yet.

I could of course just double-cast Geyser and two-shot-nuke everything or let the Demons retaliate everthing but that doesn't get me my Rage XP :>

Kinda sucky atm because Reaper is already lvl 16 and it still only ranges from 1-3. I have to Time Back the Vampires all the time and can only use the Demons as part of the mana regeneration machine with their Summons. Chargers are at 2 each 8/8 and Lina is 15 I think. I can live with that. Concentration is at lvl 2 which I think it's gonna stay.

Btw I managed to get 9 roasted rats this game Oo The tenth and consecutive ones I was offered didn't show up in the inventory as usually. I really thought it only goes up to 7. Well, I won't complain :> 110 Mana and 70 rage for a lvl 18 Mage is, uhm... extreme I'd say ^^ But then again, I'm wearing the Gladiator Sword, counting the last 5 battles until I get the runes. So ofc I have bigger max rage.

Helios
10-01-2011, 03:46 AM
Wow, that's a great explanation of how to milk a situation for Mana and Rage Exp! Printed! (Though I think you forgot the screenshot of the Kraken.)

And that's a crazy amount of Mana and Rage! I guess I need to pester those Dwarves some more for rats. I've never heard of anyone getting more than 7 (8 with the one in the whale)! At a Mage level-up, when presented with Rage vs. Mana, would you take Rage?

And did you invest in Alchemy at all? I can't tell if I'm going to need any help with the crystals since I'm not going to go around nuking everything this time around.

Vulture
10-01-2011, 02:38 PM
I have Alchemy 3/3. I just generally like to have a big spell book to be able to react to everything properly and to the fullest extent and upgrading the big spells costs a fortune in crystals. Might have been one point too many, though.

Sorry about the Kraken Screen, attaching it now and adding the Spider Kill which was a joke because the Spider Queen cast spiders exactly ONCE and that was even in round one. One Geyser, all dead but one stack. Rest of the time I just put magic spring on both vampire bats and attacked with summons to get retaliation without losses. Bats sucked themselves full everytime ofc.

As for the question: that greatly depends on the situation and your rage and mana levels. I decide priority-wise. I take a look at both stats and figure out which is too low for my level. I think I was given the exact same choice at lvl 17 or so and I picked rage.

The eighth rat was in the Whale for me, too but while clearing the Islands I went to kill Lucky so I can kill the Kraken and well, the first rat I was offered by one of the Dwarves showed up in my inv and I was able to use it, too :>

Helios
10-02-2011, 07:14 AM
I'm still impressed by your five turn victory over the Kraken. Very nicely done, considering the damage you have to dish out in such a short period of time. Good work on the Spider Queen, too. The first time I played a Mage and didn't have a grasp of the spells and units, I won an epic 2 hour battle with her and her 800+ spider stacks had destroyed my wall of totems.

I'll post more about this in my "Best Class..." topic, but 3 Alchemy seems like a no-brainer given the glut of Magic runes the Mage gets.

Thanks for the priority advice. It seems it's always wise to remain flexible with one's approach to this game and not get stuck in a rut of "I will choose Rage every time with a Mage".

Vulture
10-04-2011, 03:34 AM
Well, the priority approach and the careful pre-planning of things both have their advantages. While the former saves you time and gives you the freedom to adjust what you need in a certain situation, the former will definitely give you a clearer and straighter final build you agreed on with yourself beforehand. A mixture of both should be perfect.

About the Kraken: well, you have to take into account that I had 37 Int and 12k ldr and I was lvl 18 or so. Way too high and way too well equipped/specced for an encounter like that. I just got carried away beating the skirmishes on the Islands that I didn't notice I wanted to do it first thing ^^