IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 Vs Cliffs of Dover.

[Xilon_x]

In spite of the release of Dover Cliffs of IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 is now currently the most 'used and played on the web.

according to my estimation Oleg Maddox has failed because the project Cliffs of Dover 'did not get the same results of IL-2 1946. Today most people play more 'in 1946 that IL-2 Sturmovik IL-2 Cliffs of Dover. IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 definitely has a wide range of aircraft of World War II can be used to 'still be expanded and improved.
what are your thoughts?

[TinyTim]

Cliffs of Dover can't be compared to 1946. If anything, it should be compared to initial Il-2 Sturmovik v1.00 (which, when you mention it, had even less flyables than CoD).

[MaxGunz]

More people own cars than airplanes for much the same reason: cost. Santa has yet to bring me a PC capable of running CoD!

[scott_fitz96]

On a slightly different angle, IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 focuses on the aircraft used throughout the entire war, including some experimental aircraft that never got off the ground.

Cliffs of Dover on the other hand, is focused on the types used during the relatively short timeframe May - October 1940, give or take a couple of months. Hence, it only replicates the aircraft used in that timeframe, the Battle of Britain (and quite well I might add :) ).

Then of course there is the huge increase in computing power that is required to run the new game smoothly. Just about all they've kept from the old IL-2 is a few of the engine sounds, rather disappointingly as I was looking forward to the roar of a Rolls-Royce Merlin. Everything else - flight model, damage model, scenery, water effects - has been started from scratch and made to optimise visual enjoyment (even to the extent that they were required by law to apply the anti-epilepsy filter, which I hope has been rectified).

So really, there is simply no comparison. My suggestion is, wait until the U.S. release, by then the bugs will be ironed out. Games are typically designed to succeed in the United States, otherwise they will be doomed to fail. That may be why the Russians got the worst version first, before the rest of the world came pounding on Oleg's door wanting explanations.

I myself am really looking forward to this sim, even if no-one can make a Merlin sing...

Tally-ho,
Scott. ;)

[Bearcat]

In spite of the release of Dover Cliffs of IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 is now currently the most 'used and played on the web.
according to my estimation Oleg Maddox has failed because the project Cliffs of Dover 'did not get the same results of IL-2 1946. Today most people play more 'in 1946 that IL-2 Sturmovik IL-2 Cliffs of Dover. IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 definitely has a wide range of aircraft of World War II can be used to 'still be expanded and improved.
what are your thoughts?

You are comparing a sim that has been10 years in the making with one that has been out for less than one year.. There is no comparison.

First off like TT said... you need to compare CoD to IL2 1.0.. not 46.. 46 is the product of 10 years of development. To expect 46 to all of a sudden be eclipsed by CoD is at best a n aive and unrealistic idea. I laughed at all those who said things like .. "As soon as BoB is out I will be dumping IL2 .. " and "IL2 will be off my HD so fast once BoB is out....." I laugh at those bozos almost as hard as I laugh at the "vaporware" pundits... and those who think that CoD will go nowhere. Just look at IL2 to get an idea of where CoD will be going.... So you can slag it all you want.. warranted at the moment or not.. but I guarantee you.. barring a worldwide economic collapse.. (which is more frighteningly real than I care to think about for long) CoD will be the bar by which other flight sims will be measured well into this decade .... When the 20s get here I guarantee you that someone somewhere will be flying some version of IL2 3rd Generation (I still think UBI blew it big time by not calling this IL2 Storm of War:Cliffs of Dover.....and then IL2 SoW:Whatever the next theater is etc.. ) and considering that there are still those who fly CFS 1 & 2 today I wouldn't be surprised if some version of this sim wasn't being flown in 2018... after all TD is just getting warmed up..
http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/IL2.jpg

I am looking forward to what this new series will have to offer in the next few years.

[Xilon_x]

il-2 sturmovik born 2006 whit only 36 airplane doday il-2 sturmovik 1946 have 229 list of airplane 7 years for a incomplete list of ww2 airplane from 36 to 229. much much time for ejioy a complete satisfaction. also today il-2 sturmovik 1946 missing another 150 airplane important airplane.


IL-2 clift of dover now have 14 airplane ai and another 10 airplane how many years for a complete list of ww2 airplane in cliffs of dover? now i have 35 years old we stay 2012 for next 200 airplane another 6 years in future 2018 ckiffs of dover have 230 list airplane and i have 41 years old incredible .much much time for a complete satifaction.

[salmo]

I don't have a computer capable of running COD, but I enjoy IL2-1946 (modded) very much. I agree with Bearcat, in time COD will develop further & IL2-1946 will probably decline in use (but not at the moment).

I wonder if releasing the SDK for COD, or at least, allowing user made mod-based enhancements as early as possible, would help "speed up" the COD game development/maturity. I guess the developers want to get the game engine & other features working properly before this happens.

User contributions to the game development (mods) of IL2-1946 has seen that game reach dizzying heights with new features/game play etc. I expect that the same might occur when the users of COD are allowed to particpate in COD enhancement (mods).

[MaxGunz]

il-2 sturmovik born 2006 whit only 36 airplane doday il-2 sturmovik 1946 have 229 list of airplane 7 years for a incomplete list of ww2 airplane from 36 to 229. much much time for ejioy a complete satisfaction. also today il-2 sturmovik 1946 missing another 150 airplane important airplane.


IL-2 clift of dover now have 14 airplane ai and another 10 airplane how many years for a complete list of ww2 airplane in cliffs of dover? now i have 35 years old we stay 2012 for next 200 airplane another 6 years in future 2018 ckiffs of dover have 230 list airplane and i have 41 years old incredible .much much time for a complete satifaction.

Just to start, IL-2 first release was in 2001, not 2006.

Same year for EAW there were many 100's of planes counting mods yet IL-2 took most EAW and CFS players away. Reason IL-2 became King was not because of how many planes but how well they were modeled even though not perfect and how much better the game engine was overall. One IL-2 plane was worth many EAW planes. The IL-2 FM, DM and gunnery were so far beyond all previous sims that no amount of planes in those could make up for the new standard set -- and this was true of the IL-2 DEMO, players knew that the bar was raised even before the full game was released.

CoD is the same raising of the bar except that there is trouble needing to be fixed and that is one major reason why IL-2:1946 is more played. The other is hardware needed, many players with better hardware are playing RoF and waiting for changes to CoD.

If you go to a fair and they only have bumper cars then you play bumper cars. But if they add a go kart track then do you stay with the clunky bumper cars?

[Bearcat]

il-2 sturmovik born 2006 whit only 36 airplane doday il-2 sturmovik 1946 have 229 list of airplane 7 years for a incomplete list of ww2 airplane from 36 to 229. much much time for ejioy a complete satisfaction. also today il-2 sturmovik 1946 missing another 150 airplane important airplane.
IL-2 clift of dover now have 14 airplane ai and another 10 airplane how many years for a complete list of ww2 airplane in cliffs of dover? now i have 35 years old we stay 2012 for next 200 airplane another 6 years in future 2018 ckiffs of dover have 230 list airplane and i have 41 years old incredible .much much time for a complete satifaction.

First off like Max said.. IL2 was released in 2001 and the initial version .. before any patches were released contained 31 not 36 planes..... IL2 Forgottten Battles, which was the IL2 engine but opened up more.. and which IL2 1946 is based on was released in March of 2003.. so please get your facts straight if you are going to come here shooting off at the lip.about the sim. At least be close...

Secondly.... unless you have a crystal ball.. you don't know how much of CoD will be released when ever.. or whatever it will be like.. You can't even get your facts straight with stuff that has already happened so please .... don't try to predict the future...

Thirdly... The number of planes in any sim is moot... with all the planes in IL2 I only fly about 15.. that is including what ever axis planes I fly on the rare occasion that I do... Having said that it is not the number of planes but the quality... and since as I said.. I remember when there were no Mustangs, Jugs, Lightnings,Cats,Spits,Hurris,Mossies,Zeros,Tonys,c arriers,deserts ... or a whole bunch of other stuff that is just too long a list to name.. but it is here now.. and I for one am still digging it.. I expect CoD to be in the same vein in 5-6 years.. or close...

I don't have a computer capable of running COD, but I enjoy IL2-1946 (modded) very much. I agree with Bearcat, in time COD will develop further & IL2-1946 will probably decline in use (but not at the moment).

I wonder if releasing the SDK for COD, or at least, allowing user made mod-based enhancements as early as possible, would help "speed up" the COD game development/maturity. I guess the developers want to get the game engine & other features working properly before this happens.

User contributions to the game development (mods) of IL2-1946 has seen that game reach dizzying heights with new features/game play etc. I expect that the same might occur when the users of COD are allowed to particpate in COD enhancement (mods).


I think they need to develop the sim more before they release an SDK.. One of the strengths of IL2, and IMO one of the reasons why it has not gone the way of so many other modded sims is that the base product is so well developed... that modding it only makes it that much better in most cases.. It still annoys me the way that so many modders act as though they made this on their own.. as if they would have been able to do this had it not been for the base product of the sim... IMO Oleg & 1C will always deserve the highest props .. for creating such a product, that even 10 years after it's initial release still has room for further development on the base engine.. and it can still make a high end rig break into a sweat a decade after the fact...

[jermin]

Cliffs of Dover can't be compared to 1946. If anything, it should be compared to initial Il-2 Sturmovik v1.00 (which, when you mention it, had even less flyables than CoD).

This might sound like a reasonable excuse in the first place. But have you considered comparing the development background of the 2 games? IL2 was developed completely from scratch in 1999 while when Oleg started developing the first version (deprecated) of BoB in 2004, he had accumulated 5 years's (2004-1999) experience in flight simulation industry.

When the development of second BoB (nowadays CoD) started in 2007, his men had accumulated about 8 year's experience.

In my opinion, the failure of BoB is mainly due to a way too big and impractical ambition. They had spent too much time on things that are not so important for a flight sim, like high-poly ground objects, controllable AAA, waving grass on the ground. They wanted to develop a ground simulation within BoB. When CoD was released, they even failed to make an improved AI system. The AI of CoD is obviously ported from IL2. The FM and DM was also problematic. Let alone the awful sound system and the much inferior GUI.

They have lost their initial goal in this self-delusion. They had forgot that they were making a flight simulation game. It is just funny that they even planned to attract third-party developers from FSX with such a semi-finished product.

I'm sure Oleg knew all of these very well during the later stage of development. To fulfil his ambitious goal still needs a lot of time. But due to the all-known reason, he decided to deceive us with those Friday updates and promising Q&As to cheat us into pre-purchasing this $49.99 game. Maybe he is a talented flight sim developer. But he failed to live up to the expectation that his fans have laid on him. It's sad but bloodily true.

In my humble opinion, in order to achieve the similar success of FB+AEP, CoD still needs 1 year's development for the least. If it goes that far, I will consider buying the game. For now IL2 (stock) is far enough for me to ignore CoD.

[Blackdog_kt]

I suppose you don't have it then? Nothing wrong with it, but since i own a copy let me just say that my experience is far from that.

The sound and graphics engine is due for replacement by the end of August. Getting rid of these big tasks it will then be easier for them time-wise to focus on individual bugs. As for the AI, it's also being redone. I agree it was released early but that's exactly what a lot of the community was asking, eg "please give us an early version so we can fool around with it while you patch it to completion". I think it will be fine within 3-6 months and an adequately completed sim.

For the FM and DM now, the FM is better than IL2 but not entirely accurate: it has more parameters to take care of, but some of them need tweaking.

As for the DM, it's not problematic at all and it's the best i've ever seen in any flight sim.

Along with the new features like improved CEM, this makes it impossible for me to go back to IL2. I've been flying IL2 since the demo and the very first release version back in 2001, i switched to a AAA mods installation, then switched over to Ultrapack 2.01 version.

I too thought i'll be splitting my time between CoD and IL2 but i was wrong. After flying CoD, IL2 feels like a toy to me and that's saying something when the "toy" was not really a toy but a highly realistic combat sim. It's not that IL2 was bad, it was excellent, it's just that CoD feels so much better in some aspects that i just can't go back. I haven't even started IL2 ever since i got CoD, not once, and i stopped following its progress altogether: i still pop in the forum here regularly to check on what's new but i don't install new patches or mod packs anymore.

I might take a look at radars and night fighters when TD releases that, but the added complexities of CoD in terms of each aircraft's systems are so beyond the IL2 engine that after experiencing them IL2 feels artificial and "gamey".

As for development, IL2 was 4-5 years in development before any announcements were made in 1999 (Oleg's words, not mine). ;-)

[MaxGunz]

That's what I mean by bumper cars vs go karts. I've seen the same step-up process many times before with occasional big steps. Dinnerman's F/A-18 for the Amiga, the Dynamix Aces series, Red Baron 2/3 and then IL-2 being a few of those for me. And every one required better hardware than the ones they made look arcade.

[secretone]

I am looking forward to getting an insider's opinion one day as to what really happened with the CLIFFS release. Perhaps we will have the opportunity to read interviews with Oleg Maddox and others in the know.

The developers were ambitious and I admire that. I would prefer to bite off more than I can chew every now and then rather than to live a life of mediocrity.

[monsterZERO]

...In my humble opinion, in order to achieve the similar success of FB+AEP, CoD still needs 1 year's development for the least. If it goes that far, I will consider buying the game. For now IL2 (stock) is far enough for me to ignore CoD...


Wait. So after going on a rant about how CoD is a "failure", you admit that you don't even own the game? Dude. Come on... What can you possibly be basing your opinion on?

I've been lurking on these forums for ages, and this is the first thread where I was like, "I gotta say something", lol. Sorry to call you out like this, and I'm certainly not bashing you or anything, but I see tons of people talking like this about the game and it just irks the crap out of me.

You really need to play the game and sink a few hours into it before you can develop an opinion on whether or not it is a failure, man. The game is incredible, albeit with some pretty big issues for right now.

I most certainly do not consider CoD a "failure". Not even remotely. Yes it needs work, which it will definitely receive, going off the team's previous track record.

I don't understand some people's over the top reactions to this game's current state. It is absolutely, 100% playable, right now at this very moment, and will only get better with time. What is the issue? Is it that the game costs $49.99? If that is the reason, then I just don't understand. That is a BARGAIN! Going out to a movie here in the US costs over 10 dollars now. Hell new DVDs are in the 20s. Those entertain you for an hour or two, tops. Hell I'm pretty certain you spent more than that on your flight stick alone, unless you're using a cheapy ;).

I've bought FSX payware that costs as much as this game, and those are 1 aircraft. This is a WHOLE game...


This wasn't all directed at you, man, just people in general who have the same attitude about this game. Give it a go, an I think you'll be singing a different tune. If you even remotely enjoy WWII flight swimming, and I'm pretty sure you do, I don't see how you could NOT enjoy the hell out of it, and isn't that what this is really all about? Enjoying these incredible flight sims for what they are, and becoming utterly immersed in the experience? :)

[monsterZERO]

Along with the new features like improved CEM, this makes it impossible for me to go back to IL2. I've been flying IL2 since the demo and the very first release version back in 2001, i switched to a AAA mods installation, then switched over to Ultrapack 2.01 version.

I too thought i'll be splitting my time between CoD and IL2 but i was wrong. After flying CoD, IL2 feels like a toy to me and that's saying something when the "toy" was not really a toy but a highly realistic combat sim. It's not that IL2 was bad, it was excellent, it's just that CoD feels so much better in some aspects that i just can't go back. I haven't even started IL2 ever since i got CoD, not once, and i stopped following its progress altogether: i still pop in the forum here regularly to check on what's new but i don't install new patches or mod packs anymore.

I might take a look at radars and night fighters when TD releases that, but the added complexities of CoD in terms of each aircraft's systems are so beyond the IL2 engine that after experiencing them IL2 feels artificial and "gamey".


I feel absolutely, 100% the exact same way.

IL2 is still incredible, but after the tasting the depth of CoD, I can't go back. I just can't do it... The fidelity of the aircraft (and the environment) is an order of magnitude above the original. It's not just a little better, it's like night and day. It is the next evolution of IL2, and is the sim I will be dedicating my free time to from here on out. :-P

[Jonesyy]

Wait. So after going on a rant about how CoD is a "failure", you admit that you don't even own the game? Dude. Come on... What can you possibly be basing your opinion on?

I've been lurking on these forums for ages, and this is the first thread where I was like, "I gotta say something", lol. Sorry to call you out like this, and I'm certainly not bashing you or anything, but I see tons of people talking like this about the game and it just irks the crap out of me.

You really need to play the game and sink a few hours into it before you can develop an opinion on whether or not it is a failure, man. The game is incredible, albeit with some pretty big issues for right now.

I most certainly do not consider CoD a "failure". Not even remotely. Yes it needs work, which it will definitely receive, going off the team's previous track record.

I don't understand some people's over the top reactions to this game's current state. It is absolutely, 100% playable, right now at this very moment, and will only get better with time. What is the issue? Is it that the game costs $49.99? If that is the reason, then I just don't understand. That is a BARGAIN! Going out to a movie here in the US costs over 10 dollars now. Hell new DVDs are in the 20s. Those entertain you for an hour or two, tops. Hell I'm pretty certain you spent more than that on your flight stick alone, unless you're using a cheapy ;).

I've bought FSX payware that costs as much as this game, and those are 1 aircraft. This is a WHOLE game...


This wasn't all directed at you, man, just people in general who have the same attitude about this game. Give it a go, an I think you'll be singing a different tune. If you even remotely enjoy WWII flight swimming, and I'm pretty sure you do, I don't see how you could NOT enjoy the hell out of it, and isn't that what this is really all about? Enjoying these incredible flight sims for what they are, and becoming utterly immersed in the experience? :)^^ This. Perfect response to everybody who has decided to flame the game because it was released early. Just think of it as getting an extended BETA access, and thank God that there is so much love and support behind the game to make it as special as 1946 became.

As for me, I am just going to be playing RoF and 1946 until it is finished, but I certainly won't bash it in the meantime.

Also I do know that when I go to CloD I will probably not be able to stomach 1946 anymore. It will just feel a bit too dated.

[CWMV]

I'm not quite sure where everyone is seeing this supposed "depth" in CoD.
If anything playing CoD has made me appreciate UP3 and DBW much, much more than I did before.

[monsterZERO]

I'm not quite sure where everyone is seeing this supposed "depth" in CoD.

Right here:

...but the added complexities of CoD in terms of each aircraft's systems are so beyond the IL2 engine that after experiencing them IL2 feels artificial and "gamey".

It's the depth of the actual aircraft (the most important thing, imho). The engine management is LIGHT years ahead of vanilla IL2. Just getting my Spitfire started and off the ground is immensely satisfying to me. I can spend hours just doing pattern work in CloD and end my session with an ear to ear grin and a huge sense of accomplishment. Add to that the ability to actually fight with these aircraft (unlike FSX, etc...) and I'm sold ;)