Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:

[JG52Uther]

Nothing else to do today? Just waste your time in this thread for a while.

[Billfish]

Sadly, except for FM hacks, most are impossible for anyone to post as ONLY the user sees them......Examples:

Mirrors in planes that did not have them in the sim....
Lead compensating sights in planes that did not have them in the sim....
Altered reticles be it shape, or intensity (brightness)....
Altered smoke and vapors seen to make them show better and last longer.....
Altered visual enhancements (aircraft or objects showing better then the sim provides)....
Default skins altered to allow easier recognition....
Field of view in cockpit improved in planes as supplied in the sim, either by transparent pieces, removed or altered pieces, or degree of view movement within.....
Sounds granting better audible cues then supplied in the sim....

and the list goes on......

None of these things which make that individuals play significantly easier then the stock product players can be seen or heard by the other players only the one using them. Therefor they are impossible to prove via a track. However, if someone has any of these hacks installed, then clearly they are cheating as they have gained an advantage over other players by altering the stock product.....

How do you know has them, well you don't, you can guess and we can make some very accurate assumptions yet that would be unfair to do.....The only fair course of action is to state "anyone using a hacked product has the clear and easy potential for cheating with the ability to remain undetected"....

FM/DM/Weapons cheats poorly executed will be easy to spot (a 750km/h I-16).....However, well executed FM/DM/Weapons cheats will be impossible to spot be they slight extra speed, requiring more hits for severe damage, or weapons delivering slightly greater damage, whatever.

So except for rediculously blatant and intended to be seen cheats, most will be impossible for any to document except the user themselves........Hence the ease with which the following smug phrase is made "Prove it"......and everyone knows cheaters are not honest as they'd not be cheating if they wern't.

K2

[JG52Uther]

As I said LEB,we have another post for comments.This is just for the proof that people say they have.Lets keep it all in one place so Oleg can see it if he needs to.

[Billfish]

As I said LEB,we have another post for comments.This is just for the proof that people say they have.Lets keep it all in one place so Oleg can see it if he needs to.


I understand your intent, yet what I'm telling you is that 99% of the cheating is impossible to detect.....and that an important point to this as this thread blank would be something the cheaters would point to and state...."No Tracky, no cheatty "see?"....tee hee".

[JG52Uther]

Well people said they have proof. So obviously they can prove it.Its a serious matter.All i am asking for is some 'proof of cheating using the hack' tracks.

[fly_zo]

well you don't need proof for witch-hunt do you?

[Billfish]

As I explained Uther and you yourself know as well this simply a troll on your part......and correct Fly-zo, for a witch hunt you don't.....However, I also don't need a detailed biological analysis to know that what I just wiped off my boot after walking through the cow pasture wasn't gold either ;)

We all know....If you want proof and screenshots there is another forum that supplies them with the cheats ;)

Have your thread, it's blank intention already sullied and the truth exposed.

K2

[JG52Uther]

troll? I don't know what you mean.And I am not sure about this 'other' forum you speak of.This is the official 1C forum is it not.As I asked,please keep comments in the other thread.This is for the tracks.If anyone needs links to file hosting sites let me know.
Thanks.

[fly_zo]

... is that time of the month? ... in those age? .... i'm impressed

sorry Uther ....

[Billfish]

The other one you two are posting on as we speak LOL....whoops, you forgot about that huh? LMAO....trolls...So easy to spot :D

[fly_zo]

The other one you two are posting on as we speak LOL....whoops, you forgot about that huh? LMAO....trolls...So easy to spot :D

i was told that chocolate helps ...

still have no guts to participate over there ? .... uh but of course guts come with balls ...

[JG52Uther]

Well LEB I am concerned that links to cheats will get lost amongst all the dross in that thread. Surely it is better to have a dedicated area?
Do you have any tracks to contribute?

[RaVe]

Many of the anomalies Are very difficult to see in tracks.
The best I can tell you is that if you have played the sim for long enough you will defiantly notice things that are just not right..
Best recommendation is to boycott any servers allowing mods.
This will remove any doubt about a pure clean server experience.
More of my findings here..
http://8raven8.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=mod&action=display&thread=1197822602

[stalkervision]

No tracks.....Hard to see in the tracks huh? :)

[RaVe]

NO you can see but there are SOME things that are simply hard to see in some tracks.
That simple.

I said what I said If it wernt an issue I would not have posted
Thanks love ya..
RaVe

[kristorf]

Such a simple idea flamed already..........................

Another one bites the dust....................

Could we all grow up and act like adults instead of slagging everyone who does not agree with our own ideals.................just once?

[stalkervision]

Such a simple idea flamed already..........................

Another one bites the dust....................

Could we all grow up and act like adults instead of slagging everyone who does not agree with our own ideals.................just once?


Ahhh.. No, No one is flaming anyone here buddy. Get you story straight before you type will you? Isn't this a "post track" thread? Is not this what I asked? Apparently you didn't understand me...


I would Truly LOVE to see an actual cheating track. :) I have seen other tracks of various arguments. If cheating is so rampent then one would think someone could come up with a track by now?

stop trying to confuse the issue by spinning the argument it will you?

[stalkervision]

Here... "POST YOUR CHEATING TRACK HERE"

The reason I laughed is I have never seen one yet and doubt I ever will see one.. :)

[stalkervision]

I guess we will have just to take this argument on faith huh? Just like Santa Claus is real Huh? :)

[kristorf]

Ahhh.. No, No one is flaming anyone here buddy. Get you story straight before you type will you? Isn't this a "post track" thread? Is not this what I asked? Apparently you didn't understand me...


I would Truly LOVE to see an actual cheating track. :) I have seen other tracks of various arguments. If cheating is so rampent then one would think someone could come up with a track by now?

stop trying to confuse the issue by spinning the argument it will you?

Explain how I am trying to 'confuse the arguement' please, and your 'Get you story straight before you type will you?' line shouts for a slapping down.

If YOU read my little post YOU would (possibly) read into my exaspiration over this whole hack/mod bulls*it that should have been put to sleep ages ago.

Uther asks for tracks and the both the 'pro' and 'anti' brigade start all over again in this thread, has this not been beaten enough already.

Enough is enough is what I am saying, leave it, put it to bed, take it round the back and shoot it.whatever, just stop going on about this friggin thing, move on every-one, for the sake of this GAME, after all, thats all it is.

BTW, Santa is real

[SlipBall]

I was on-line last night in a spit, going along at 380 knots, everything cool....just then a Storch pass'es me on my port side, proceed's to empty a full load of parabomb's right in my flight path....well needless to say I will post a trac soon as proof...just wait here

[123-Wulf-123]

I have to say that Fly-Zo has really sunk to the lowest depths in his comments to LeB. If he made those comments in my country in the workplace he would be fired on the spot, and the person he made them too would easily sue him for discrimination.

Fly-Zo you really have no argument so you try to attack other members, you sir, are far from being honourable, or a gentleman, I suppose that is what one can expect from someone so pro-hack. :(

I have had enough of some of the twats in this troll thread, my last word.

[RaVe]

Enough is enough is what I am saying, leave it, put it to bed, take it round the back and shoot it.whatever, just stop going on about this friggin thing, move on every-one, for the

sake of this GAME, after all, thats all it is.

BTW, Santa is real


I hear you Kris You intentions are great.
I know you truly care about the sim.

But the point is the "sake of this GAME"
As an adult I want an adult leval of GAME play not kiddy land.

Forgetting about the problems that this mod has created, or sweeping the issue under the rug is no way to deal with the problem its use has created in the online community.

Pretending that the sim is still good is no way to look out for the the game.

Its to late now... its run amuck. The sim is porked in regard to online.
Unless you fly in honest servers or a small group of guys you trust and even there are so many different mods now that the file conflicts are problematic. I’m not talking about cheating, no the real problem is that file conflicts between users and different mods its just screwing up the program.
It makes the experience really bad not like it is supposed to be or how it was meant to be its quality is effected in a negative way . It has grown out of hand and looking the other way helps no one.
That’s a fact.
I believe in Santa too. ;)

[SlipBall]

+1
That is the only logical path for now. The fat lady is singing loudly, its time to move on.

[stalkervision]

I believe I will sooner get a track of the real Santa with Rudolph too then a cheating track... :)

[SlipBall]

Here you go Stalker, you asked for it...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0hDwQHYjLE

[BSS_Sniper]

Sadly, except for FM hacks, most are impossible for anyone to post as ONLY the user sees them......Examples:

Mirrors in planes that did not have them in the sim....
Lead compensating sights in planes that did not have them in the sim....
Altered reticles be it shape, or intensity (brightness)....
Altered smoke and vapors seen to make them show better and last longer.....
Altered visual enhancements (aircraft or objects showing better then the sim provides)....
Default skins altered to allow easier recognition....
Field of view in cockpit improved in planes as supplied in the sim, either by transparent pieces, removed or altered pieces, or degree of view movement within.....
Sounds granting better audible cues then supplied in the sim....

and the list goes on......

None of these things which make that individuals play significantly easier then the stock product players can be seen or heard by the other players only the one using them. Therefor they are impossible to prove via a track. However, if someone has any of these hacks installed, then clearly they are cheating as they have gained an advantage over other players by altering the stock product.....

How do you know has them, well you don't, you can guess and we can make some very accurate assumptions yet that would be unfair to do.....The only fair course of action is to state "anyone using a hacked product has the clear and easy potential for cheating with the ability to remain undetected"....

FM/DM/Weapons cheats poorly executed will be easy to spot (a 750km/h I-16).....However, well executed FM/DM/Weapons cheats will be impossible to spot be they slight extra speed, requiring more hits for severe damage, or weapons delivering slightly greater damage, whatever.

So except for rediculously blatant and intended to be seen cheats, most will be impossible for any to document except the user themselves........Hence the ease with which the following smug phrase is made "Prove it"......and everyone knows cheaters are not honest as they'd not be cheating if they wern't.

K2

I have to agree with this as all those things mentioned give an unfair advantage when used on servers that want only the stock IL2 in use. No one can show proof of these other than the user. You guys can't possibly disagree that those things don't give an unfair advantage when used online in that fashion can you?

[JG52Uther]

Hopefully Evgeny will delete all the other posts in this thread and leave it as I intended it to be:
For all the people who say they have proof of cheating online using the soundmod to post their proof here using tracks.

[SlipBall]

Hopefully Evgeny will delete all the other posts in this thread and leave it as I intended it to be:
For all the people who say they have proof of cheating online using the soundmod to post their proof here using tracks.



Uther, do you see the irony of your words "leave it as I intended it to be"....Oleg said the same thing, lol

[JG52Uther]

Absolutely.I always choose my words very carefully.Maybe as its a Sunday people are away from the forum.Its only been 5 hours and nobody has posted a track yet.Apparently there are hundreds of instances of soundmod cheating online,and I really want to see some of those tracks.

[CKY_86]

Absolutely.I always choose my words very carefully.Maybe as its a Sunday people are away from the forum.Its only been 5 hours and nobody has posted a track yet.Apparently there are hundreds of instances of soundmod cheating online,and I really want to see some of those tracks.

This is seconded.

Slipball, you said you were going to post evidence of an storch dropping parafrags infront of your plane, please post that track to get this going.

[SlipBall]

I'm hurrying, I'm new to this Photoshop software

[stalkervision]

Hay, I can try to make something totally up. Will that help? :)

[SlipBall]

That would be great......I'll just wait here to see it, thanks Stalker!

[JG52Uther]

No we need to see the real tracks or we will never be able to prove to these hackers that they have ruined the game online for everyone.I honestly did'nt think it would be so hard.From what I read in the other thread I thought there would be several tracks here now for Oleg to examine.

[stalkervision]

That would be great......I'll just wait here to see it, thanks Stalker!


No problem.. Got any special requests? Supersonic Il-10? Stealth Me-110?

Of course... a} No one would believe that it was real if I managed it and

b{ I havn't a clue how to do it.... :)

[SlipBall]

No problem.. Got any special requests? Supersonic Il-10? Stealth Me-110?

Of course... a} No one would believe that it was real if I managed it and

b{ I havn't a clue how to do it.... :)



No, do the Storch and parabombs....I don't want people to think I make up stories, thanks again

[RaVe]

using the hack isn't an accusation of cheating.
You guys are missing the point .
The file conflicts of all those separate mod types are making the game act in very odd ways.
one guys has a certain mod version that another guys doesn't and weird things happen .
like your suddenly all filled with holes but never hear a round.


The use of them has totally changed the on line Sim experience.
As i stated I was all for them until I started to see odd things happening .
things that don't show up in a track its only from knowing how the game should handle can one notice what has happened.
I cant expect new players to have the experience to notice the difference.

Good luck and congratulations .

[BSS_Sniper]

I have to say that Fly-Zo has really sunk to the lowest depths in his comments to LeB. If he made those comments in my country in the workplace he would be fired on the spot, and the person he made them too would easily sue him for discrimination.

Fly-Zo you really have no argument so you try to attack other members, you sir, are far from being honourable, or a gentleman, I suppose that is what one can expect from someone so pro-hack. :(

I have had enough of some of the twats in this troll thread, my last word.

He crossed WAY over the line IMO with that remark. A warning or temp ban sounds in order.

[Santa Claus]

Per your request these tracks where made today in 408m

They show several things that can be done using the "sound" mod/hack and simple cut and paste, including but not limited to the list below.

Any plane can be used in any server regardless of checkruntime= setting.
Any plane or several hacks can be used in any server regardless of server plane choices.
I can NOT type or spell :-)
Players get so upset that they can not answer a simple yes or no question.
The current server checks are not a guarantee of “safe and fair” play.

The tracks all show a mod/hacked "Lerche" in servers such as War Clouds, Skies of Fire, Wings Over Europe, Spits V 109, Skies of Valor, Zekes v Wildcats... other tracks where made but the responses in the chat were way tooooo offensive to post here.

Today..I used a simple Lerche in order to make it obvious to all.
I could have easily used a mod spit or 109 with any FM or DM. I could have kept a low profile and destroyed plane after plane. However, I will not cheat in a game or be unfair to the others in anyway. This was done as a simple online demo and brought a server admin with me as a witness. I tried to achieve this demo without disturbing the players for very long. They could all see that I had a Lerche on the scoreboard and I sensed the blood pressure rising. I stayed just long enough to get an answer/feel of how the players felt as well as long enough to prove I was really online in those servers based on the chat.

Ironically the only server that tried to boot me was the AAA server... Now that I find very funny but should issue a warning. Mods are not welcome on the AAA even though it says mods on the door.

Most people who would actually use something like this to cheat are not going to make it so obvious. Changes to cockpits, enemy aircraft colors, boosting enemy sounds louder so you can here them behind you easier(a sound mod), boosting the FM or DM to have an edge.... the list is long....and these cannot be proven by a track easily. As mentioned earlier, if you don't have some of those mods, when you play the track back you can not see it.

This simple Lerche was made using the "sound mod" and was specifically done in a way so that those who view the tracks can see the Lerche... even if they don't have a hacked game. Again... I could have used something that you couldn't see ..but that would defeat the purpose of this post.

For all those who keep implying that a server running checkruntime=2 is "safe and fair" ..please stop making a fool out of yourself. However, a server running checkruntime=1 or =2 is a good step to block many of the less talented basement dwellers.

I realize that no matter what track is posted here it will be over analyzed and picked on...have fun. I wont bother with others, because anything posted will be argued about. Why didn't I show this or that, why didn't I destroy a bunch of poor innocent flyers, why thats not proof enough...we need DNA from the victims.... blah blah blah.... have fun.
(*No flyers or animals where harmed making this.)

For Christmas you wanted a track where someone used the sound mod to cheat. Here is a little gift for you that took 5 minutes to do using the “sound mod”. If you don't know how its done, well to bad and the zip does not include directions. This was not done using some sort of video trick, its a track from IL2 4.08m today. Cross-reference the stat pages with the players in chat for each server to verify if you need to.

For those that dont think the "Sound HACK' doesn't harm online play and help contribute warping and other online issues..think about this question... Do you honestly believe that 1C used simple efficient synthesized sounds in this game because they were the best sounds he could find??? Maybe the goal was to make the best quality online WWII sim possible that would play smoothly for a majority of players. Those that have the "Sound HACK" installed, please stop complaining about the warping in your favorite servers.

Some of you can hope a better protection or server side protection comes in the future. For now... fly with your friends and just know that closed cockpit it no longer closed cockpit for all regardless of server settings.... sorry to disappoint you.

For those that really wanted these tracks....That other thing you wanted for Christmas - forget about it.

Ho Ho Ho.


*EDIT.. LOL. I see its easier to fly a mod in any server than it is to attach a 4mb zip here with ntrks in it. Now available on rapid share instead of email (http://rapidshare.com/files/77216729/SoundHack_Lerche_408m.zip.html)

[fly_zo]

I have to say that Fly-Zo has really sunk to the lowest depths in his comments to LeB. If he made those comments in my country in the workplace he would be fired on the spot, and the person he made them too would easily sue him for discrimination.

Fly-Zo you really have no argument so you try to attack other members, you sir, are far from being honourable, or a gentleman, I suppose that is what one can expect from someone so pro-hack. :(

I have had enough of some of the twats in this troll thread, my last word.

BF:
"I also don't need a detailed biological analysis to know that what I just wiped off my boot after walking through the cow pasture wasn't gold either "

yup ... words of a true lady ...

and in my country we treat women as equal to man ( feminist heaven) ... and if one acts like
"what I just wiped off my boot after walking through the cow pasture" she/he gets it equally back.

she cosed Fabianfred to be banned over "nothing" down at the zoo ... not a lady like act

... you really need a lady so you can act as gentleman ...otherwise you're throwing pearls to the ... you'll learn

[Evgeny]

Fly-zo, you must bring the public apology to Billfish for the words you said. "i was told that chocolate helps ...

still have no guts to participate over there ? .... uh but of course guts come with balls ..." - This is just unacceptable in the human society. If you respect yourself you just must to apologise.

[HanzBlixz]

Dear Santa,

Thank you for sending the ntrks showing that the "Sound Hack" is being used for more that just sounds.

At first I was annoyed that you emailed them to those wanting it. My fear being that this forum would somehow be turned into a how-to forum on cheating online.

After reading this, the other related threads and seeing the “Sound Hack Lerche” ntrks, I now understand what you where showing. I like how you announced your presence to the players on the server via chat and requested their feedback. It took me a moment to cycle the views to actually see the hacked Lerche, but I did find it and see it flying around. I also appreciate that the zip only contained the tracks and nothing more.

I think you clearly showed that the popular online servers are not “protected”, regardless of the current checkruntime settings. Whether or not cheating is widespread, it obviously can be done and this alone leads to more accusations in the online servers.

Servers need to tighten their settings and clean up their mission files to reduce the warping and internet related problems. The smoother the server runs, the less accusations there will be. Dogfight servers should run a minimum of checkruntime=1.

Players should not accept a server with planes warping all over. If you’re on coms with your wingman and everyone is seeing warping, tell the server admin to fix it or move to another server that is smooth (they do exist). If you’re the only flyer that other players see warping, fix your computer and/or internet connection.

Santa: One final thing for the list: 4.09 with improved server side security check.

Cookies and milk will be near the tree.
S`

[fly_zo]

Fly-zo, you must bring the public apology to Billfish for the words you said. "i was told that chocolate helps ...

still have no guts to participate over there ? .... uh but of course guts come with balls ..." - This is just unacceptable in the human society. If you respect yourself you just must to apologise.

sure, no problem ....as soon as she takes this back:
"what I just wiped off my boot after walking through the cow pasture"

but if you must ban me over that ... i will not hold it against you , i'll respect your judgment

[Evgeny]

Fly_zo, please, behave like a man. She didn't meant anything offensive to you personally saying that. You just must to apologise and that's all. I appreciate you as a member of our community, you've posted a lot of interesting thoughts and I hope you'll behave as a reasonable person.

[fly_zo]

Fly_zo, please, behave like a man. She didn't meant anything offensive to you personally saying that. You just must to apologise and that's all. I appreciate you as a member of our community, you've posted a lot of interesting thoughts and I hope you'll behave as a reasonable person.

ok, here it is :

my deepest apologizes to BF , i was saying that in affect ...wont happen again !


@evgeny : thanks for patience and considerations

[JG52Uther]

Evgeny can I get an apology from Baron for his threats to me in this thread please? He threatened to 'nuke my computer' and called me a bonehead and I stayed awake all night worrying about it.
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2300&page=64

Thanks.

[Evgeny]

Check the corresponding thread.

[F19_Klunk]

does this place start to remind you guys of another place?

[JG52Uther]

No, we have better mods here who allow debate and just stay in the background keeping an eye on things.

[JG52Uther]

So 20 hours,900 views,fifty replies,and no cheating tracks posted ?

[zapatista]

Sadly, except for FM hacks, most are impossible for anyone to post as ONLY the user sees them......Examples:

Mirrors in planes that did not have them in the sim....
Lead compensating sights in planes that did not have them in the sim....
Altered reticles be it shape, or intensity (brightness)....
Altered smoke and vapors seen to make them show better and last longer.....
Altered visual enhancements (aircraft or objects showing better then the sim provides)....
Default skins altered to allow easier recognition....
Field of view in cockpit improved in planes as supplied in the sim, either by transparent pieces, removed or altered pieces, or degree of view movement within.....
Sounds granting better audible cues then supplied in the sim....

and the list goes on......

None of these things which make that individuals play significantly easier then the stock product players can be seen or heard by the other players only the one using them. Therefor they are impossible to prove via a track. However, if someone has any of these hacks installed, then clearly they are cheating as they have gained an advantage over other players by altering the stock product.....

How do you know has them, well you don't, you can guess and we can make some very accurate assumptions yet that would be unfair to do.....The only fair course of action is to state "anyone using a hacked product has the clear and easy potential for cheating with the ability to remain undetected"....

FM/DM/Weapons cheats poorly executed will be easy to spot (a 750km/h I-16).....However, well executed FM/DM/Weapons cheats will be impossible to spot be they slight extra speed, requiring more hits for severe damage, or weapons delivering slightly greater damage, whatever.

So except for rediculously blatant and intended to be seen cheats, most will be impossible for any to document except the user themselves........Hence the ease with which the following smug phrase is made "Prove it"......and everyone knows cheaters are not honest as they'd not be cheating if they wern't.

K2

exactly, that is the main issue ! the problem with hacks is that it is mostly aimed at cheating online and gaining an advantage by removing cockpits, adding mirrors, increasing speed and weapons etc etc..

i am not surprised the pro-hack kids cant even understand that. with the irrational talk in the other thread that is dangled as "making an argument", they are now asking to prove a negative, saying because no reformed hacker in 2 days post a "no cockpit view" used on a full real server, it isnt being used ? duh !! i think my 6 yo can see the flaw in that.

there have been plenty of reports in the last few months of very odd online behavior and this has been observed by reliable and long term il2 users, some will even have tracks, but will will any of them right now be here reading this thread ?

do a search on google for yourself and see some of the recent il2 youtube video's posted of hack kiddies playing with the files.

i have a better suggestion, why dont you hack kiddies prove there is no cheating online, and that by simply using the improved sound files there has been no change whatsoever in any of the planes flight models ?

[RaVe]

UTHER
You must be new to this sim.
If you wern't new to it you would know better than asking for tracks to see a cheat.
didnt you read any of my post's?
You are part of the problem thank you for contributing to the demise of this sim.

[stalkervision]

zapatista
Member " see some of the recent il2 youtube video's posted of hack kiddies playing with the files."

I have seen those very very few videos and sorry but they don't prove your point...

[stalkervision]

UTHER
You must be new to this sim.
If you wern't new to it you would know better than asking for tracks to see a cheat.
didnt you read any of my post's?
You are part of the problem thank you for contributing to the demise of this sim.


Just because you claim things " feel strange with the game" proves absolutely nothing. Just because you claim in other posts cheats are hard to post evidence of proves nothing either. You are using your own lack of evidence to prove that cheating is common and deriding people who call you on it because you made a post saying lack of evidence means nothing and is your proof it exists?

Here is your evidence.. "The game feels strange" and "other members have noticed it" ?

RaVe.."If you wern't new to it you would know better than asking for tracks to see a cheat.
didnt you read any of my post's?

and please stop insulting members because they want proof and you have none to give at all and then you say a previous post of yours pointing that out is your proof." What nonesense...

[kristorf]

Rave,
Uther has been flying this sim for ages, I used to regularly go against him in Air Wars.

Could we not agree that there are them with and them without.

**Confesional bit**

I have this 'thing that should not be mentioned' and also a 'Vanilla' copy.

The altered version is for single player and squad DCG's (we all have the same bits, namely the sound and cockpit ones.
The original is for online play (this is the one Hyper Lobby is directed to.

As long as I do not go 'live' against others who don't have it I (honestly) could not give a toss, I have paid my money, from the original IL2 release up to 1946, with all the official bits between.

I still love this game, and will continue to fly it even if SOW is ever released (the range and scope is to big to leave it alone), however, I will not be shouted down or harranged into doing something because someone else does not like it.
I think its called 'freedom of expression', and in my job I see plenty of people who attempt to deny that right to others.

[stalkervision]

Hay RaVe, I found this bit of counter evidence for you from another forum by "Quazi" a mod over at Ubi..


"And just FYI? I have asked every online m8 I know that I fly with from time to time (and there are shit pot full) as often as I see them, if they are seeing any weirdness online and so far they haven't. The only thing a very good m8 of mine has noticed is that the K\D ratio between the Hellcat & Zero on Zekes vs. Wildcats has been 1:1 for many, many moons. Now it is at 2:1 in favor of the Hellcat. Of course this isn't really saying anything as far as confirming someone is cheating online with tweaked FM's\DM's. It is just something he has noticed.

[Billfish]

Well to those arguing with the hack supporters seriously do NOT waste your time in these threads as you'd realize these are only deliberate trolls even stated as such on their forum.........

That said, any who have been here long enough realize that cheating has gone on since day one in many forms.....Be it non-sim hacking (altering ones own PC's clocking and so on) hence all the settings we have below:

[NET]
..........
..........
checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.02
checkTimeSpeedInterval=2
checkRuntime=2

[MaxLag]
farMaxLagTime=0.5
nearMaxLagTime=0.5
cheaterWarningDelay=3.0
cheaterWarningNum=3

Yet, they only work so well, sadly nothing fool proof and more so as cheaters (people who deliberately try and "game the game" for an edge vs. skill) become wiser being called on it, it becomes less black and white to more shades of gray.

That said, the new mods/hacks I'm sure for the most part were intended to simply add onto and improve the simulation............Unfortunately, just as with the initial hacking of the sim, they have been made and distributed irresponsibly. That's really a pity, as most of these even the ones I mentioned could of been developed, and submitted in such a way the community as a whole would of accepted them......Think not?.....Here's an example.

Taking the Mirror & Gyro types of gunsight mods, as released they become a cheat for those using them against others expecting a stock product....Cut and dry how it is. Worse still, they are laid out so Joe hardcore cheater can alter them further.

However....

If the group had taken the time to:
1. Get their facts straight.
2. Get the graphics accurate and up to the newer standards of the sim.
3. Not added them to existing planes yet added them as a new plane varient (Spitfire IX = orig. vs. Spitfire IX Gyro = new plane add).
4. Tested them fully as alpha and beta then made corrections and adjustments.
5. Compiled it into a safe difficult to alter pack.
6. Released it as a new sim version (call it 5.01 say)....

Then, there would not be ANY reason for non-hackers to gripe as server operators could control which versions of the Spit IX were allowed, everyone up to 5.01 would be par as to play, the files could not be easily hacked further and so on.

Yet that would take some common sense.........The rush to simply have what they want now, as they want it and the ability to tweak it to gain an edge even further plus using them in 4.08 play quite simply making them cheats....

Anyone who can't see and understand that either lacking in the ability to think logically, or the morality to not cheat......Sorry to say yet it's that simple, the hackers have made the situation they're facing and we all must deal with.....It's up to them to start correcting it or expect the situation to get worse, for as it stands....most cheating online currently their doing as the old forms we could do nothing about and were rare as they stood....This new form impossible to detect, yet still as much an advantage or cheat as say the speed hack.

Such a pity.........as it could of been so much more.

K2

[stalkervision]

Thanks for all the cheating info. I am learning more about how to cheat from the non-cheaters than anywhere else! :)

The modders apparently aren't interested. can't get anything from them... :(

[carguy_]

Rave,
Uther has been flying this sim for ages, I used to regularly go against him in Air Wars.


Then he has all the experience to KNOW that there are cheats popping up every day.He has flown with/against the very lowest parts of IL2 online players. He then MUST KNOW that people use EVERY possible method to win a map. If he didn`t conclude things from his experience then what can I say?




As long as I do not go 'live' against others who don't have it I (honestly) could not give a toss, I have paid my money, from the original IL2 release up to 1946, with all the official bits between.

Doesn`t change a thing.


I still love this game, and will continue to fly it even if SOW is ever released (the range and scope is to big to leave it alone), however, I will not be shouted down or harranged into doing something because someone else does not like it.

That someone is Oleg Maddox. IL2 Sturmovik is his property.You only bought a license to him to use the game in a strict manner.


I think its called 'freedom of expression', and in my job I see plenty of people who attempt to deny that right to others.

Freedom of expression is a little different at forums which have a game you mod illegaly for the main topic.It would be nice if all of you mod supporters just stopped promoting hacks.That would be fine.

[JG52Uther]

Yep been around il2 for 7 seven years now.Even spoken to Oleg and Luthier personally about things that cannot be talked about in a public forum.
I don't really see the problem here.People have said they have proof of cheating online with the soundmod,all I am asking is for you then to post that proof here for everyone to see.You will then becomne a hero to your cause,and be forever loved and immortalised.
you say you have proof.
Show us that proof.
Or do you really have no proof,were lying all along,just stirring up trouble,and are preparing your apology as I type this.

[jasonbirder]

a game you mod illegaly

Surely you mean a game you mod potentially/i] illegally in non-US and non-Western European jurisdictions [i]even though that has never been tested in the courts and there is no relevent case law precedent to refer to...

[kristorf]

Freedom of expression is a little different at forums which have a game you mod illegaly for the main topic.It would be nice if all of you mod supporters just stopped promoting hacks.That would be fine.


Who says I am promoting, just expressing my opinion, not illegal is it??
Get of your high horse please

[zapatista]

eh the cheating hack users arnt even smart enough to use google to find some evidence of cheating ? why doesnt that surprise me !

here, just from a 30 sec search:

1) the classic example of the pilot hopping out of the plane, running around, and getting back into the plane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffIuFecRHSk

2) il2 modding 101, note that at the start of the clip he goes into multiplayer, and in some of the later clips there are text msg's from other online users like "WTF ?" you can also see the icons of the other users, and he is getting shot at
it includes a vertical takeoff for a do-335 from a carrier, controlling AI planes that arnt flyable, endless vertical powerclimb in a zero etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2BiRAPqY8

3) flyable Fi156 Storch with p39 cockpit, using sound mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4JEf8nQg8

4) new 6DOF mod version for track IR with sound mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxYyqRaOER8&feature=related
err anybody claiming adding 6DoF isnt cheating compared to what other users have available in visibility ?

5) 6dof-Ta183 with partially transparant rear cockpit, significantly increasing view from cockpit compared to other users.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6ieDHGaHsM&feature=related

etc.. lots of them available

my point is still the same, why dont you hack kiddies try and prove there is no online cheating going on, and that using a simple sound mod still completely locks and protects the rest of the file specs, like aircraft behaviour, cockpit visibility, and enemy lod model visibility etc ?

[stalkervision]

eh the cheating hack users arnt even smart enough to use google to find some evidence of cheating ? why doesnt that surprise me !

here, just from a 30 sec search:
1) the classic example of the pilot hopping out of the plane, running around, and getting back into the plane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffIuFecRHSk

2) il2 modding 101, note that at the start of the clip he goes into multiplayer, and in some of the later clips there are text msg's from other online users like "WTF ?" you can also see the icons of the other users, and he is getting shot at
it includes a vertical takeoff for a do-335 from a carrier, controlling AI planes that arnt flyable, endless vertical powerclimb in a zero etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2BiRAPqY8

3) flyable Fi156 Storch with p39 cockpit, using sound mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4JEf8nQg8

4) new 6DOF mod version for track IR with sound mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxYyqRaOER8&feature=related
err anybody claiming adding 6DoF isnt cheating compared to what other users have available in visibility ?

5) 6dof-Ta183 with partially transparant rear cockpit, significantly increasing view from cockpit compared to other users.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6ieDHGaHsM&feature=related

etc.. lots of them available

my point is still the same, why dont you hack kiddies try and prove there is no online cheating going on, and that using a simple sound mod still completely locks and protects the rest of the file specs, like aircraft behaviour, cockpit visibility, and enemy lod model visibility etc ?

You do know not one of these is apparently on-line play?

Proof there isn't cheating? Why not you try proving there is ?

[stalkervision]

here is some proof I just posted recently..

I found this bit of counter evidence for you from another forum by "Quazi" a mod over at Ubi..


"And just FYI? I have asked every online m8 I know that I fly with from time to time (and there are shit pot full) as often as I see them, if they are seeing any weirdness online and so far they haven't. The only thing a very good m8 of mine has noticed is that the K\D ratio between the Hellcat & Zero on Zekes vs. Wildcats has been 1:1 for many, many moons. Now it is at 2:1 in favor of the Hellcat. Of course this isn't really saying anything as far as confirming someone is cheating online with tweaked FM's\DM's. It is just something he has noticed.

[JG52Uther]

Posting old youtube videos showing what 'can' be done,does not prove what 'is' being done,online,in the servers you are playing on.This is what I ask for in this thread..Please if its hard for you to understand what I am asking ,tell me what language you speak and I will translate that for you.
Again,where is YOUR track showing the cheating you say you have seen that has totally ruined your online play and made your life not worth living.

[CKY_86]

eh the cheating hack users arnt even smart enough to use google to find some evidence of cheating ? why doesnt that surprise me !

As I said yesterday, we are not asking anyone else. We are asking here for proof from the people who claim they have seen cheating online using the sound mod.


here, just from a 30 sec search:
1) the classic example of the pilot hopping out of the plane, running around, and getting back into the plane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffIuFecRHSk

2) il2 modding 101, note that at the start of the clip he goes into multiplayer, and in some of the later clips there are text msg's from other online users like "WTF ?" you can also see the icons of the other users, and he is getting shot at
it includes a vertical takeoff for a do-335 from a carrier, controlling AI planes that arnt flyable, endless vertical powerclimb in a zero etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2BiRAPqY8


Both of these videos came around long before the sound mod and people have been doing this sort of stuff before the sound mod came out.


3) flyable Fi156 Storch with p39 cockpit, using sound mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4JEf8nQg8


And the posting of this video is ment to proove online cheating how?


4) new 6DOF mod version for track IR with sound mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxYyqRaOER8&feature=related
err anybody claiming adding 6DoF isnt cheating compared to what other users have available in visibility ?

5) 6dof-Ta183 with partially transparant rear cockpit, significantly increasing view from cockpit compared to other users.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6ieDHGaHsM&feature=related


Again, these videos came around before the sound mod did. Plus this 6dof mod can be worked with just track ir software alone I belive. Only when the sound mod came out was a version of the mod made to work with the sound mod, to make it easier to install. But yeah, ill give you that, but what about when poeple started using track ir online? where they cheats because they had an increased view?


etc.. lots of them available

my point is still the same, why dont you hack kiddies try and prove there is no online cheating going on, and that using a simple sound mod still completely locks and protects the rest of the file specs, like aircraft behaviour, cockpit visibility, and enemy lod model visibility etc ?

All the sound mod does is change a few sounds an make some ai aircraft flyable.

''why dont you hack kiddies try and prove there is no online cheating going on'' We are not the ones making accusations of cheating online & where I come from if you make an accusation you need proof to back it up.

[Billfish]

12.12.07
The last warning, guys. If someone continues promoting hacking, insulting each other, using obscene language or post extremely off-topic threads, the punishment will come immediately. I think no one wants to be banned. Such measures are entirely for your own good. This forum isn't going to turn into a zoo, this forum was created for honorable people, who respect themselves and each other. I think all of you are such people. So prove it and the only result will be happiness and good warm atmosphere on the forum.

[kristorf]

This is what I have been trying to say without shouting out, lets move on please and close ALL threads relating to this topic

(I doubt this will happen due to some peoples inability to move forward, be them 'purists' or other)

[Lo0n]

can't produce evidence, try another way of killing off discussion...

[JG52Uther]

This is not the ubi forum LEB, and you are not protected here more than anyone else.Trying to get a thread closed because you don't like the way it is going is not very mature.We have all read Evgenys warning.
Open discussion is allowed here.
I am not promoting hacking in this thread,on the contrary, we all want to see your proof of online cheating that everyone claims to have.
24 hours and no tracks yet.Were you all lying?

[Bandit Bill]

exactly, that is the main issue ! the problem with hacks is that it is mostly aimed at cheating online and gaining an advantage by removing cockpits, adding mirrors, increasing speed and weapons etc etc..

i am not surprised the pro-hack kids cant even understand that. with the irrational talk in the other thread that is dangled as "making an argument", they are now asking to prove a negative, saying because no reformed hacker in 2 days post a "no cockpit view" used on a full real server, it isnt being used ? duh !! i think my 6 yo can see the flaw in that.

...

do a search on google for yourself and see some of the recent il2 youtube video's posted of hack kiddies playing with the files.

i have a better suggestion, why dont you hack kiddies prove there is no cheating online, and that by simply using the improved sound files there has been no change whatsoever in any of the planes flight models ?

Funny how you throw out the Hack Kiddie insult to the pro-modders. I thought insults on this forum were not kosher.

And as proof to that, the 'other' forum has precious little 'hack kiddies'. I suspect a lot are old enough to be your poppa, judging by your own posting maturity.

A little Poll i put up on the 'other site'.. no worries, you won't be corrupted by hackitis if you only look at the poll.. there is no download links on the topic unless you choose to stray outside of the poll topic so your moral high-ground should remain high and dry.

http://tinyurl.com/2jbgsy

I think an apology is owing to the pro-modders arguing their case on this forum topic.. i don't think any are a 'hack kiddie', as you are insulting/insinuating.

[Santa Claus]

Read the earlier post.

http://rapidshare.com/files/77216729/SoundHack_Lerche_408m.zip.html

Ho Ho Ho

[fly_zo]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/fly_zo/bundy.jpg

...this is a joke ... no need to run and PM Evgeny ....

[RaVe]

I maintained no problems with mods too. Until they started to surface.

Just trying to pass on some info.

if any chose to remain in denial that's is your choice.

I have no more fingers to stick in the dike.

I just want to get a group of like minded folks together to fly in a nice full switch server with good pilots. That are at a competitive skill level.

And fly the sim as it was designed to be flown.
not with hundreds of mis matched sfs files.

I wont expend any more energy on this subject. I tried.

If any would like to fly on a server that at least tries to minimize the use of mod try us in Hyper @ Guts_Glory map/plane sets from WWI---> late war 24/7

again to fly the sim as it was designed to be flown.
not with hundreds of mis matched sfs files.

pleasant dreams RaVe

[fly_zo]

I maintained no problems with mods too. Until they started to surface.

Just trying to pass on some info.

if any chose to remain in denial that's is your choice.

I have no more fingers to stick in the dike.

I just want to get a group of like minded folks together to fly in a nice full switch server with good pilots. That are at a competitive skill level.

And fly the sim as it was designed to be flown.
not with hundreds of mis matched sfs files.

I wont expend any more energy on this subject. I tried.

If any would like to fly on a server that at least tries to minimize the use of mod try us in Hyper @ Guts_Glory map/plane sets from WWI---> late war 24/7

again to fly the sim as it was designed to be flown.
not with hundreds of mis matched sfs files.

pleasant dreams RaVe

good for you ....and i respect that

... and me as 100% offliner .... i will continue to make new maps for my campaigns .....

so this is win/win situation

[RaVe]

Read the earlier post.

http://rapidshare.com/files/77216729/SoundHack_Lerche_408m.zip.html

Ho Ho Ho



I just watched the tracks I would recommend that everyone takes a good hard look at them .

wile eating crow

from spits V 109
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809754/sound-mod-cheat-two.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809754/sound-mod-cheat.jpg

[JG52Uther]

And? I said post your proof of cheating tracks here.The guy looks like he told everyone he was in there.He wasn't trying to cheat,he was showing you that he could if he wanted to.
Again,where is your (and that means YOUR,from YOUR computer,track that YOU made in an online server of someone using the soundmod to CHEAT YOU.

Next?

[CKY_86]

I just watched the tracks I would recommend that everyone takes a good hard look at them .

wile eating crow

from spits V 109


I watched them an all I can see is a deliberate troll attempt there.

[RaVe]

Omg
the guy is in a server that does not have lerches in it .

there are no lerches in Spits v 109s


isnt that enough that he pops up with a learch?

wow... ever flown in there??

[CKY_86]

Omg
the guy is in a server that does not have lerches in it .

there are no lerches in Spits v 109s


isnt that enough that he pops up with a learch?

wow... ever flown in there??

Did you watch all the tracks or just that one? it's not a flame, just a question.

In every track apart from one the lerch user asks something along the lines of ''Hi, is it ok to use this soundmod Lerch in here? Yes or no?''

Then he says something like ''so im not allowed to use this unlikeable Lerch in here?''

That looks like a blatent troll attept to me.

Yes ive been in there, ive been in many servers since installing the soundmod. Where ever he got the use of the lerch in servers like that wasn't from the soundmod.

[SlipBall]

This is a example, that anything is possible now for certain pilots, not all on-liners, just a few,..... enough to ruin it's competitive value

[fly_zo]

This is a example, that anything is possible now for certain pilots, not all on-liners, just a few,..... enough to ruin it's competitive value

yup, but that was possible way before sound mod came out ... so who wants to cheat doesn't need sound mod ...

[stalkervision]

Pretty obvious it was a troll attempt is all. Also pretty obvious he would have been kicked out and banned if he attempted to ever use it too. It appears an anti-modder is using the mods he totally detests so to troll on the modders isn't it? Otherwise why the hell would he even ask for permission?

Didn't he worry about that slap in the face to oleg that they all are always worrying about?


what he should have typed to make it even more obvious is.."I am a trolling ant-mod hacker using un unallowed plane. Is anyone noticing this yet.." :)

[DerAlte]

Bill, you quote the "mirror" and "gunsight" as unfair advantages. That is totally wrong. Both of these Mods are historical correct. Just because they were not implanted does not mean they are not correct. IMO, someonewho uses Track IR(tm) is unfair, why, because I don't have one (very hard to find here). That is the same logic you are using. I don't have it, so it is not fair.

DerAlte

[DerAlte]

Omg
the guy is in a server that does not have lerches in it .

there are no lerches in Spits v 109s


isnt that enough that he pops up with a learch?

wow... ever flown in there??

That is older than me!!! Man, that is just changing a certain .ini to read only after you have flown a Lerche.......... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTT.

Get with it dood. NO PROOF, just a TROLL, maybe a certain fishing person here?

DerAlte

[stalkervision]

That is older than me!!! Man, that is just changing a certain .ini to read only after you have flown a Lerche.......... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTT.

Get with it dood. NO PROOF, just a TROLL, maybe a certain fishing person here?

DerAlte


That figures... :)

[SlipBall]

But Santa brought it!......for every good boy & girl

[JG52Uther]

Ok then lets review shall we.
30 hours.2000+ views. No proof of cheating using the soundmod tracks have been posted by those who said they had proof of being cheated by people using the soundmod.They were telling an untruth to spread fear amongst the online community.
Case proven.Lets move back to the other soundmod thread and continue this 'friendly discussion' shall we.

[BSS_Sniper]

Bill, you quote the "mirror" and "gunsight" as unfair advantages. That is totally wrong. Both of these Mods are historical correct. Just because they were not implanted does not mean they are not correct. IMO, someonewho uses Track IR(tm) is unfair, why, because I don't have one (very hard to find here). That is the same logic you are using. I don't have it, so it is not fair.

DerAlte

Historical and unfair advantage in gaming are two VERY different things. You can go in a stock server and use stuff like that when the others there are expecting you to not have them. How hard is that to understand? The difference with TR is that the team that actually made IL2 made it with TR in mind.

[Billfish]

Rather stunning, and sadly, such an absolute waste.....You pro-modders have no idea of the potential you are throwing away. Yet you are, and more so being adults yet doing as a youngster would who scolded, so instead of acknowledging being that everyone knows, continues to compound it as though after enough times a wrong will become right.


Fact of the matter is simple, and everyone here knows it no amount of simply claiming opposite makes it not so......

* The sim was hacked....That was wrong.
* Those hacks and how to do so were released to the world whether available or not inconsequential as I bet 90% of the folks here had no idea how and devoted little time to it....That was wrong yet could of been corrected yet wasn't *1*.
* To avoid admitting the wrong of above, and suddenly greeted by the aclaim of many even more were generated and still are....and that was wrong to a point *1*
* It was stated by many from the beginning that the irresponsibility of sharing this work the way it was (laid out and exposed)....was wrong *1*
* Everyone realizes that when alterations (mods) are made that make an advantage of some over others for ANY reason....That is wrong *1*
* and anyone with even a shred of common sense knows there have always been cheaters in the sim, that the reason many have not is they didn't know how (and no matter how slight the advantage it's still a cheat) and therefor opened and exposed the cheating will simply get worse....It's simply common sense *1*

All the spamming, trying to recruit others to get on the bandwagon, claims there is nor can be such, and rediculous points of arguments and trolling simply compounding all the wrongs as there has all this time been a chance to make it right....and it's been deliberately ignorred as though the second the wrongs are acknowledged trying to make it right....Then you'll have to deal with admitting the wrongs.

You can get 99.999% of the players here to go along with it...It doesn't make it right, it only makes 99.999% of the players doing wrong.........So how do you make it right? *1*


*1*
It can't be undone, we all know that........Yet to continue as it has been only makes the problems we all know are coming compounded.....As I have said over and over and over, it's time for the pro-modding community to step up and try and make the wrongs of above livable for all.......As we ALL must live with the ramification we ALL know is coming.

First off, the tools and the help given to tearing apart the SFS are so distributed now it having been so long it's too late to stop the damage to be done there...A month ago or more maybe.

Next, the mods generated to date need to be collected, organized and recompiled into groups....Groups like default skins, AI flyables, sight alterations and so on.....Once done, the modders need to take a very very hard look at the work insuring it is up to the quality standard we've come to expect from Maddox Games. Those that don't either get reworked or tossed out...Then these things have to be tested thoroughly to insure no conflicts, bugs or errors.................Sounding like a pain in the rump yet? Well this is what Maddox games had to do with every patch and hence subsequent ones to fix errors found. Not that any of your mods have had bugs or errors ;) awful familiar huh to what's been going on for years.

You must also, and this is a gigantic task, insure without a doubt that every single button and screw is historically accurate......BS like "well 500 planes had these out of 5,000" or "it looks ok to me even though I'm handed proof to the contrary" or "I think I read somewhere once" simply will not fly and will not be tolerated by a big portion of the community........The historical accuracy is what keeps people here, not the arcade "kinda sorta maybe's"........Find something like I mentioned before about spit sights, some had them some didn't?.......No problem, there is a NEW version of the plane, that way you don't have someone having an advantage over another unfairly...EIther one or the other version or is in the planeset used to possibly both...Yet then EVERYONE is on the same page.....Additional/new weapons, n/p get em right and accurate and add them into loadouts if all types had them or just the sub types applicable.......(and don't even try to tell us you're not going there, if not today you will tomorrow how it is, simply human nature).

Once you have a patch it MUST be recompiled in such a way that joe lazy cheater cannot simply look at the zipped files and instantly see what he can alter further......I'm assuming to some degree you're already doing this or are beginning to find the means from your .exe's. It MUST be presented in this way, or you're only compounding the wrongs above.

The patch above then should change the version number....Why? As that way, everyone who uses mods is on the exact same page not some having advantages over others.....Guess what, it works for non-modders to as their version doesn't match!....Kinda kills that whole unfair advantage and potential cheaters via the mod argument doesn't it?

On and on......It's simple, face the music, admit the wrong by TRYING TO CORRECT IT....That what we adults do, we face it, try and fix it the best we can and then and only then can you say you made a responsible effort.

Fact of the matter is this has put us ALL at risk......No problem if you just put yourself there, yet you put us ALL there the way things stand.......All the banter and nonsense only makes it worse...........As nobody, and I mean absolutly nobody is so naive or stupid to not know that advantages over others in play are cheats, no matter how small, no matter if only the client can see them or all.........and that the true cheaters, those really intending to cheat the game and online play are here and simply going to get worse.

It's a matter of responsibility, and once some responsibility is taken to try and at least chain the genie out of the bottle..........THEN you'll find your respect.

ALL OF US want more things in this sim then you all can even imagine....We all want changes and more content..........Yet we want it responsibly, not willing to risk it all for our own 1 petty thing.

It's your responsibility to do these things and more pro-modders.....As I said before, you broke it, you fix it............Past this I'm done with these two rediculous threads in this forum....How'd you all put it, ah yes:

Speak to the Hand! lmao

Bi*chfish out...

[fly_zo]

endless posts and yet no tracks to prove cheating ....

as for mods goes, its simple don't use them if you don't like them.... but they are out there and they are available to everyone so there is no disadvantage , like with trackIR ... not all player are using it but they can if they want to.... its their choice as the same as it is with mods

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

[SlipBall]

Rather stunning, and sadly, such an absolute waste.....You pro-modders have no idea of the potential you are throwing away. Yet you are, and more so being adults yet doing as a youngster would who scolded, so instead of acknowledging being that everyone knows, continues to compound it as though after enough times a wrong will become right.


Fact of the matter is simple, and everyone here knows it no amount of simply claiming opposite makes it not so......

* The sim was hacked....That was wrong.
* Those hacks and how to do so were released to the world whether available or not inconsequential as I bet 90% of the folks here had no idea how and devoted little time to it....That was wrong yet could of been corrected yet wasn't *1*.
* To avoid admitting the wrong of above, and suddenly greeted by the aclaim of many even more were generated and still are....and that was wrong to a point *1*
* It was stated by many from the beginning that the irresponsibility of sharing this work the way it was (laid out and exposed)....was wrong *1*
* Everyone realizes that when alterations (mods) are made that make an advantage of some over others for ANY reason....That is wrong *1*
* and anyone with even a shred of common sense knows there have always been cheaters in the sim, that the reason many have not is they didn't know how (and no matter how slight the advantage it's still a cheat) and therefor opened and exposed the cheating will simply get worse....It's simply common sense *1*

All the spamming, trying to recruit others to get on the bandwagon, claims there is nor can be such, and rediculous points of arguments and trolling simply compounding all the wrongs as there has all this time been a chance to make it right....and it's been deliberately ignorred as though the second the wrongs are acknowledged trying to make it right....Then you'll have to deal with admitting the wrongs.

You can get 99.999% of the players here to go along with it...It doesn't make it right, it only makes 99.999% of the players doing wrong.........So how do you make it right? *1*


*1*
It can't be undone, we all know that........Yet to continue as it has been only makes the problems we all know are coming compounded.....As I have said over and over and over, it's time for the pro-modding community to step up and try and make the wrongs of above livable for all.......As we ALL must live with the ramification we ALL know is coming.

First off, the tools and the help given to tearing apart the SFS are so distributed now it having been so long it's too late to stop the damage to be done there...A month ago or more maybe.

Next, the mods generated to date need to be collected, organized and recompiled into groups....Groups like default skins, AI flyables, sight alterations and so on.....Once done, the modders need to take a very very hard look at the work insuring it is up to the quality standard we've come to expect from Maddox Games. Those that don't either get reworked or tossed out...Then these things have to be tested thoroughly to insure no conflicts, bugs or errors.................Sounding like a pain in the rump yet? Well this is what Maddox games had to do with every patch and hence subsequent ones to fix errors found. Not that any of your mods have had bugs or errors ;) awful familiar huh to what's been going on for years.

You must also, and this is a gigantic task, insure without a doubt that every single button and screw is historically accurate......BS like "well 500 planes had these out of 5,000" or "it looks ok to me even though I'm handed proof to the contrary" or "I think I read somewhere once" simply will not fly and will not be tolerated by a big portion of the community........The historical accuracy is what keeps people here, not the arcade "kinda sorta maybe's"........Find something like I mentioned before about spit sights, some had them some didn't?.......No problem, there is a NEW version of the plane, that way you don't have someone having an advantage over another unfairly...EIther one or the other version or is in the planeset used to possibly both...Yet then EVERYONE is on the same page.....Additional/new weapons, n/p get em right and accurate and add them into loadouts if all types had them or just the sub types applicable.......(and don't even try to tell us you're not going there, if not today you will tomorrow how it is, simply human nature).

Once you have a patch it MUST be recompiled in such a way that joe lazy cheater cannot simply look at the zipped files and instantly see what he can alter further......I'm assuming to some degree you're already doing this or are beginning to find the means from your .exe's. It MUST be presented in this way, or you're only compounding the wrongs above.

The patch above then should change the version number....Why? As that way, everyone who uses mods is on the exact same page not some having advantages over others.....Guess what, it works for non-modders to as their version doesn't match!....Kinda kills that whole unfair advantage and potential cheaters via the mod argument doesn't it?

On and on......It's simple, face the music, admit the wrong by TRYING TO CORRECT IT....That what we adults do, we face it, try and fix it the best we can and then and only then can you say you made a responsible effort.

Fact of the matter is this has put us ALL at risk......No problem if you just put yourself there, yet you put us ALL there the way things stand.......All the banter and nonsense only makes it worse...........As nobody, and I mean absolutly nobody is so naive or stupid to not know that advantages over others in play are cheats, no matter how small, no matter if only the client can see them or all.........and that the true cheaters, those really intending to cheat the game and online play are here and simply going to get worse.

It's a matter of responsibility, and once some responsibility is taken to try and at least chain the genie out of the bottle..........THEN you'll find your respect.

ALL OF US want more things in this sim then you all can even imagine....We all want changes and more content..........Yet we want it responsibly, not willing to risk it all for our own 1 petty thing.

It's your responsibility to do these things and more pro-modders.....As I said before, you broke it, you fix it............Past this I'm done with these two rediculous threads in this forum....How'd you all put it, ah yes:

Speak to the Hand! lmao

Bi*chfish out...



With all due respect to you, you are dreaming. If you have ever heard the term "you can never go home"....well that applies here, to this sim. Just fly with people that you trust, and enjoy the game. It's not the end of the world, and lots of fun is still to be had.

[GOZR]

Well to me it's simple and here my advice .. until maybe 4.09 is fixed or SOW is out there only one solution for the Onliner that love adrenaline and fight...
It's "LOCKON / FLAMING-CLIFF" .... I can assure you that there are conciderably way less arcadish pilots there .. what a fun.. Sow is not out yet... my Lockon days restart again.. and same thing Hyperlobby etc.. just maybe a bit smarter this time.

Voila.. done.

Some Online pics last night
http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lockon/wingman1.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lockon/lb1.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lockon/lb2.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/lockon/formationattack104.jpg

[zapatista]

Ok then lets review shall we.
30 hours.2000+ views. No proof of cheating using the soundmod tracks have been posted by those who said they had proof of being cheated by people using the soundmod.They were telling an untruth to spread fear amongst the online community.
Case proven.Lets move back to the other soundmod thread and continue this 'friendly discussion' shall we.

yea lets review then, and since even basic concepts seem hard to grasp by the hack crowd we'll take it in little steps for you, call a friend if you still get lost along the way

from the oxford dictionary, .... you know ... one of those big books that helps you with determining the meaning of words

the question was "Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:"

the meaning of the key words in that phrase:
cheat n verb
1 act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. deprive of something by deceitful or unfair means.
2 a person who cheats.
3 an act of cheating.

about 10 links were posted of exactly that, people entering fullreal servers with the hacked soundmod files, and flying planes that are not normally available, people flying planes completely outside their normal parameters (vertical takeoff for do-335 anybody ?)

case closed, its clear by searching for 30 sec on google that lots of cheating is occurring


what you seem to want, is for a reborn hacker to turn up singing "haleluja i been saved" and post in cockpit views of flying an 1-16 at 650 km/hr with a closeup of the speed dial, or or a stork loading up a nuke and 4 x 30 mm canons in the setup screen.

your hack buddies arnt honest enough to come and confess to that here, you know that well enough to.

[JG52Uther]

You quote the Oxford English Dictionary.Well done.Now please go back and edit your post using the correct diction,capital letters,full stops and comma's that the English language demands.
Please ask your mother to make sure you take your copy of the Oxford English Dictionary back to the library on time.
As I said,you have no proof of cheating online using the soundmod on your computer.There is no case of cheating online using the soundmod in this thread,after 36 hours and several thousand views.Someone going into a server,asking permission to use the soundmod,and telling everyone they are using the soundmod does not count as cheating.
And regardless of what you think,I am not 'pro-mod' or 'anti-mod'.I just want to see proof of cheating that everyone says they have.

[zapatista]

You quote the Oxford English Dictionary.Well done.Now please go back and edit your post using the correct diction,capital letters,full stops and comma's that the English language demands.
Please ask your mother to make sure you take your copy of the Oxford English Dictionary back to the library on time.

hit a bit of a raw nerve there, did i ? try and make a better attempt next time to be a bit more precise in the words you use when you are trying to post self answering questions, it makes it less boring for the rest of us to poke holes in your arguments. word have specific meanings, if you then put them together in a correct manner it allows you to communicate clearly with others.

but lets not get sidetracked now, extensive cheating is possible with the soundmod file, and even more so with the hacked versions that the juvi's got their hands on later, and you know that to.

As I said,you have no proof of cheating online using the soundmod on your computer.There is no case of cheating online using the soundmod in this thread,after 36 hours and several thousand views.Someone going into a server,asking permission to use the soundmod,and telling everyone they are using the soundmod does not count as cheating.

you blind or something ? or cant you really think in a logical straight line for the 60 sec it takes to read a short piece of text.

you asked for links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks, and about 10 video's and tracks were posted showing exactly that.

now you been asked in return to post proof here that you have evidence and guarantees that no cheating whatsoever is occurring online since the soundfile hack was released and the il2 files were cracked. you avoiding the question ?

And regardless of what you think,I am not 'pro-mod' or 'anti-mod'.I just want to see proof of cheating that everyone says they have.

eww, you'd been totally misunderstood then , have you ? i wonder how that happened.

ahh i know, in case your attention span was really that short just read some of your earlier post in this forum and you should be able to figure that one out for yourself.

[JG52Uther]

Raw nerve? Not really,but if you must quote the Oxford English Dictionary at me,and then start writing in a style that would get my 10 year old in trouble at school, then what can I say?
As to the other statements you made,what can I say? I suppose I could post some tracks of me flying online in several different servers with no evidence of cheating going on,but what would that prove?
As I have stated on more than one occasion,I have not witnessed any instance of cheating online using the soundmod.Others have stated that they have witnessed instances of cheating online using the soundmod.
I can post my tracks of not seeing any cheating.
please post your tracks of seeing cheating.

As for the rest of it,what can I say? I am not totally blind,just partially sighted,so in response to your question 'are you blind?' then no,not quite.Maybe I am missing all the cheating due to my eyesight.If I post some tracks,can you point out the times that the cheating occurred for me so I can examine them? Thanks i appreciate it.
This is not the soundmod discussion thread,so we should really move there now for further banter.Keep this thread for your proof.

[zapatista]

I suppose I could post some tracks of me flying online in several different servers with no evidence of cheating going on,but what would that prove?

thats not what you were asked. see, we are back to the old oxford dictionary problem again were you are not paying attention to the actual meaning of the phrase.

what you were asked is "to post proof here that you have evidence and guarantees that no cheating whatsoever is occurring online since the soundfile hack was released and the il2 files were cracked"


As I have stated on more than one occasion,I have not witnessed any instance of cheating online using the soundmod....I can post my tracks of not seeing any cheating.

not valid, you're raising anecdotal evidence from one biased user and trying to generalize from it that there is no cheating. you'll need to do better.

but i'll let you in on a secret, before we all waste to much time on this. it is nearly impossible to prove a negative in a logical argument, so i know already in advance it is not something you are going to be able to prove. in the same way that unless some reborn hack kiddie posts evidence of his dirty laundry here, then you are not going to get conformation how frequent and easy cheating has become on full real servers.


As for the rest of it,what can I say? I am not totally blind,just partially sighted,so in response to your question 'are you blind?' then no,not quite.Maybe I am missing all the cheating due to my eyesight.

i am sorry, i didnt realize that. i wouldnt have made light of it if i had know you had problems with vision. my reference was to "being blinded to logic and reasoning", because a small number of people here, and i identified you as being one, are over and over pretending not to understand what issues here are at stake, and the arguments keep going around in circles, and meanwhile Rome is burning.

[fly_zo]

no no ... Rome is burning .... it is: sky is falling !

little dramatic don't you think ?

[Tbag]

Gunny, well said! +1

[JG52Uther]

At the end of the day zapatista, we all love this wonderful sim il2. I can agree to disagree on everything else,and if we continue like this we will just end up getting personal with each other and it is really not worth it.In fact I think we already started down that road and for that I apologise.
The only one who can 'fix' it now is Oleg,and I would love it if he can find a way to make 4.09 totally safe for everyone who wants an unmodded/unhacked sim.
Rather than concentrate on what 'has' happened, for which there is no going back for 4.08,we should look forward and hope 4.09 puts an end to all this.

[JG53Frankyboy]

indeed , a solution that would make online play hack-free (if wanted !!) and on the other side the possibilities to use these hacks offline (and online if the server/host allowes them) would be a perfect solution !
time will tell.................

even more perfect would be if Oleg would make some of these hacks official in an update- as examples some rearviewmirrors (espacially Hellcat), the now comming cockpittexture improvments.
the future will sure bring more things.

but as long these things are NOT official - i dont use any of these hacks.
personal decission from an 100% onliner !

[han freak solo]

Well said and is the truth. At least at the zoo, this topic is finally taboo.

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

[kristorf]

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

Well put, here endeth the lesson (hopefully), but I doubt it

[Avimimus]

Witch hunts can be fun. Make me the target!

* edited - I had an idea on how one could catch cheaters but I decided it would lead to a witch hunt *

[RaVe]

Gunny.. Great post
Thanks for the wake up call.
~S~RaVe

[zapatista]

and another kodak moment for the cheat deniers, see attached jpeg

a Frankenstein p51 with rearview mirror from a spit

and before the black helicopter brigade starts yelling photoshop, the thread i grabbed this from is here: http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2403059#Post2403059

similar problems exist with people using a "no cockpit" view in full real servers

[zapatista]

how about a spitfire with a gyro sight from a p51 ?

for those that are a bit slow in following the bush fire that has now gone out of control, the original soundmod had just a few aspects changed (mainly the sound files, but some other things as well) and you could partiallu block its use with checksum 2, now LOTS of things have been changed since any 12yo with notepad can cut and paste bits of one aircraft config into another plane, so the options are limitless and you cant detect it is being used online.

just for those kiddies who cant deflection shot using a graded reticle as it was done historically, you can now have a MKII Gyro Gunsight For the Spitfire IX

[stalkervision]

leaving out quite a bit of historical facts on purpose from the original webpage aren't we now? Why doesn't that surprise me? You are so busted....

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/786/mkiigyrogunsightaej1.jpg

========================FACTS===================== ===
The P-51D/K introduced the K-14 computing gyro gunsight, based on a British (Ferranti) design http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html

In the summer and autumn of 1944 four major improvements incorporated in Spitfire fighter variants at that time deserve special mention in this account. In order of thier entry into service they were: the installation of the gyro gunsight, the fitting of the 'E' Type wing and armament, the fitting of the bubble canopy, together with a redesigned and cut-back fuselage, and the installation of additional fuel tanks iin the rear fuselage. These Modifications greatly increased the fighting ability of the Spitfire.
: Late Mark Spitfire Aces 1942–45 - Alfred Price - Osprey puplishing
========================FACTS===================== ===

The Gyro gunsight;
In action the effectiveness of a fighter's cannon and machine guns depends on the pilot's ability to aim the rounds with sufficient accuracy to score hits on the target. During the mid-war period RAF fighters carried simple GM2 reflector gunsights. This provided an illuminated fixed aiming point in the centre of the reflector glas, surrounded by a fixed circle which helped the pilot judge the correct deflection angle when engaging a manouvering crossing target. In fact the ability to judge the deflection angle accurately in the heat of the battle was the main points that seperated the ace pilots from the also-rans. Early in the war it was realised that if an automatic device could be developed to indicate to the pilot the correct amount of deflection to use when firing during a turning combat, this would greatly enhance the effectiveness of the fighter force.
: Late Mark Spitfire Aces 1942–45 - Alfred Price - Osprey puplishing


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Gyro_Sight_Mk_IIc_Ferranti.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_gunsight

[zapatista]

leaving out quite a bit of historical facts on purpose from the original webpage aren't we now? Why doesn't that surprise me? You are so busted....

cant you even count to 10 using your own fingers ?

the problem with the unrestricted hacking in il2 is not about what people like to add or change, it is that suddenly you have 1 group flying online with the legitimate il2 specifications, and another group is on the same full real server but has added gun sight gyro's to planes that shouldnt have it, increased their visibility by removing the cockpit, added mirrors in planes that dont normally have them, increased dot sizes for distant aircraft etc..

you really still cant see that argument ?

so lets see how many fingers you need for this
1) if everybody uses the same legitimate il2 files to fly online, then there is a level playing field and no cheating
2) people can now with hacked files join full real servers and remain undetected, using completely altered game option settings (removing cockpits, adding plane sets that are not allowed etc..) and use plane sets with different features (adding mirrors, adding idiot proof gyro gun sights , ... etc)
3) nobody cares what the hack kiddies get up to late at night playing with eachother as long as they only do it in their own home, and dont harm any animals or other humans

you only needed 3 little steps to understand it so you only need one hand, and you can keep doing with the other hand what you have been doing all along so far

[fly_zo]

.... bla, bla,bla..... insults when proven wrong .... so typical

[zapatista]

.... bla, bla,bla..... insults when proven wrong .... so typical

? proven wrong about what

if you dont understand what is posted in the thread, try not to participate in the conversation because you are making a fool of yourself. you only need to follow 2 little steps

1) if everybody uses the same legitimate il2 files to fly online in full real servers, then there is a level playing field and no cheating

2) if some people can now join full real servers with hacked files and remain undetected, and use completely altered game option settings (removing cockpits, adding plane sets that are not allowed etc..) and use plane sets with different features (adding mirrors, adding idiot proof gyro gun sights , ... etc) then you have one group who is cheating and gaining an unfair advantage

simple really, aint it ?

you only needed 2 fingers to follow that one, just like at Agincourt

[Lo0n]

? proven wrong about what

if you dont understand what is posted in the thread, try not to participate in the conversation because you are making a fool of yourself. you only need to follow 2 little steps

1) if everybody uses the same legitimate il2 files to fly online in full real servers, then there is a level playing field and no cheating

2) if some people can now join full real servers with hacked files and remain undetected, and use completely altered game option settings (removing cockpits, adding plane sets that are not allowed etc..) and use plane sets with different features (adding mirrors, adding idiot proof gyro gun sights , ... etc) then you have one group who is cheating and gaining an unfair advantage

simple really, aint it ?

you only needed 2 fingers to follow that one, just like at Agincourt

or...
1. everyone uses the same modded files, which gives things like the gyro gunsite to late mark spits, rear view mirrors to planes that did actually have them (seen many photos of mustangs with mirrors - ones like the spit, ones like you get on motorbikes etc), reskinned pits, better object visibility yadda yadda, and unadulterated fm/dm/wm. then you have the level playing field. surely there is some way to load the plane files server side so that everyone gets the same deal?
2. there has still been no proof posted (unless i missed it...) that the soundmod works in chkruntime=2 servers. someone install and use fraps to record modded files, and then logging into a chkruntime=2 server. not already being in server and using something they shouldn't have, that doesn't really prove the point of secure servers being vulnerable.

and for what it's worth my shooting is better without the gyro sights, so i wouldn't call them idiot proof.

[zapatista]

or...
1. everyone uses the same modded files, which gives things like the gyro gunsite to late mark spits, rear view mirrors to planes that did actually have them (seen many photos of mustangs with mirrors - ones like the spit, ones like you get on motorbikes etc), reskinned pits, better object visibility yadda yadda, and unadulterated fm/dm/wm. then you have the level playing field. surely there is some way to load the plane files server side so that everyone gets the same deal? .

err you now going to try and tell me there is one single person is controlling all the hacks that are out there, and that this same person is smart enough to produce a brand new anti hack lock that will put the geni back in the bottle ?

i havnt hear that type of optimism since the flower power days. it's a nice idea but it aint going to happen, we've entered the realm of the absurd there.


there has still been no proof posted (unless i missed it...) that the soundmod works in chkruntime=2 servers.

yes you missed it, dont expect people here to keep going 40 times over the same things. there is no controversy there.

[Baron]

back the fishtruck up for a minute.


Lets see if i got this straight.


A sertain person with well known sentiments regarding this topic (pro modder) doesnt like where a sertain threadh is going or maby he knows its soon to be dead (Sound mod threadh) so the said person decides to start a new threadh (this one) where he ask (how polite) people to post proof, or how it actually is: to put up or shut up?

The said person then assumes the role of judge, jury (with the help of some trusted allies) and exicusioner, or moderator if u will (no offense intended towards real moderators) in examening and validating posted evidance. Nedless to say, nothing of the evidance posted (despite the surreal conditions under wich its done) is, in the end, valid. (what a shocker)

The well known pro modder puts up this "request" (how polite) here on 1C official forum as an added flavour?



Did i understand situation correctly?



Did we all move to the Twilight Zone and i missed the 1C announcement?


Maby someone went over the deep end......or lost theire marbels...or maby someone went over the deep end BECAUSE he lost his marbels?




BTW. Not intended as an insult...just a question, keep your eyes on the ?-mark. (to avoid future missunderstandings)




P.S. Zapatista, u know it, i know it, heck even some modders know it, problem is that we are using way to many bigg words trying to explain how it in facts is...it only confuses the situation. Sad but true.

[Lo0n]

err you now going to try and tell me there is one single person is controlling all the hacks that are out there, and that this same person is smart enough to produce a brand new anti hack lock that will put the geni back in the bottle ?

i havnt hear that type of optimism since the flower power days. it's a nice idea but it aint going to happen, we've entered the realm of the absurd there.




yes you missed it, dont expect people here to keep going 40 times over the same things. there is no controversy there.

ah missed this as well then -
That is older than me!!! Man, that is just changing a certain .ini to read only after you have flown a Lerche.......... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTT.

Get with it dood. NO PROOF, just a TROLL, maybe a certain fishing person here?

DerAlte
so you mean the lerche thing... apparently not proof of cheating. so, no i did catch that. and all the youtube clips you showed. someone, if they are so adamant about the cheating and getting into chkruntim=2 servers, post a movie clip showing it exactly. until then this is stuff that could be done on an unprotected server, and could simply be down to paranoid ideation.
hell maybe it is optimistic, beats being a "sky is falling, we're all doomed". and christ, the average age of most people playing this sim should be enough to think that cheating someone is a hollow victory, not as satisfying as doing it on a level field, no? and of course i'm not so dense to think that one person is controlling it all. there are probably groups that could do it, the community itself if it wasn't so intent on eating itself for example. but noooo, far more productive to start a b*tchfest witch hunt after the event, than to see what can resolve it.

[Lo0n]

back the fishtruck up for a minute.


Lets see if i got this straight.


A sertain person with well known sentiments regarding this topic (pro modder) doesnt like where a sertain threadh is going or maby he knows its soon to be dead (Sound mod threadh) so the said person decides to start a new threadh (this one) where he ask (how polite) people to post proof, or how it actually is: to put up or shut up.

The said person then assumes the role of judge, jury (with the help of some trusted allies) and exicusioner, or moderator if u will (no offense intended towards real moderators) in examening and validating posted evidance. Nedless to say, nothing of the evidance posted (despite the surreal conditions under wich its done) is, in the end, valid. (what a shocker)

The well known pro modder puts up this "request" (how polite) here on 1C official forum as an added flavour.



Did i understand situation correctly?



Did we all move to the Twilight Zone and i missed the 1C announcement?


Maby someone went over the deep end......or lost theire marbels...or maby someone went over the deep end BECAUSE he lost his marbels?




BTW. Not intended as an insult...just a question (to avoid future missunderstandings)




P.S. Zapatista, u know it, i know it, heck even some modders know it, problem is that we are using way to many bigg words trying to explain how it in facts is...it only confuses the situation. Sad but true.

with spelling like that, i think big words are way out of your league.

[Baron]

with spelling like that, i think big words are way out of your league.


Thx for confirming my thoughts.


Because if u dissegreed u would have come up with something better than that, right?



"Big words" in this case is a matter of oppinion, i agreee. I never thought words like "illigal", "no", "yes", "cheats" was big words...but apparently they are.



Thx again on the confirming part though.



BTW. Im bilingual with English as second language...how about u?

[Lo0n]

Thx for confirming my thoughts.


Because if u dissegreed u would have come up with something better than that, right?


Thx.



BTW. Im bilingual with English as second language...how about u?

no, i just said that as a way just returning the "idiot" mud throwing really. irritating isn't it?
the spelling is still off.
that lerche track posted shows it being used, it doesn't show anything else. and as someone else said this is an old cheat using a conf.ini exploit. so what i think uther was looking for was undeniable proof. this has not materialised. i think all uther wanted was osmething concrete as opposed to the hysterical "it's all cheating"

[Baron]

no, i just said that as a way just returning the "idiot" mud throwing really. irritating isn't it?
the spelling is still off.
that lerche track posted shows it being used, it doesn't show anything else. and as someone else said this is an old cheat using a conf.ini exploit. so what i think uther was looking for was undeniable proof. this has not materialised. i think all uther wanted was osmething concrete as opposed to the hysterical "it's all cheating"



So said person was "looking" for undenible proof, said person "wants" concrete evidance?

Pardon my less than perfect english (i know how it enoys u)...but i couldnt care less.


Doenst matter what kind of proof will be posted, there will allways be a "if" or "but" in there somewhere. I hope those with proof (me being one of them) will relize that in the next page or 2 so we can put this joke of a thredh to bed to. A joke, as in: never ending story.

Those with proof can show them where it actually matters, to Oleg for ex. so it can help him come up with a solution (not that i think it will happen). Maby post them over at Ubi zoo showing people what to look out for. Just a couple of examples.


BTW, Im still bilingual, with english as my second language...how about u?


Maby i can post in my native language and u can correct my spelling then to...mmm, how about it?

[Lo0n]

Pardon my less than perfect english (i know how it enoys u)...but i couldnt care less.


BTW, Im still bilingual, with english as my second language...how about u?


Maby i can post in my native language and u can correct my spelling then to...mmm, how about it?

doesn't sound like someone who couldn't care less.

as for the rest, it's simple. a fraps video showing modded files, showing version 4.08, showing log on to chkruntime=2 server, and showing in game cheating. fair enough if evidence is posted, just make it so holes can't be picked in it. the lerche "cheat" has been shown to be another factor, not the soundmod itself.
to put my position, all i have seen posted is that people have tried to use it in chkruntime=2 servers, as a test, and have failed. maybe some new files have come out, or whatever, but i have not seen those.
as for looking for the undeniable evidence... yeah i'd want that if i was being called scum. wouldn't you?

[Baron]

doesn't sound like someone who couldn't care less.

as for the rest, it's simple. a fraps video showing modded files, showing version 4.08, showing log on to chkruntime=2 server, and showing in game cheating. fair enough if evidence is posted, just make it so holes can't be picked in it. the lerche "cheat" has been shown to be another factor, not the soundmod itself.
to put my position, all i have seen posted is that people have tried to use it in chkruntime=2 servers, as a test, and have failed. maybe some new files have come out, or whatever, but i have not seen those.
as for looking for the undeniable evidence... yeah i'd want that if i was being called scum. wouldn't you?


"Doesnt sound like someone who couldnt care less"?....the me couldnt care less part is me not posting proof here of all places.


And as i said, there will allways be a "if" or a "but". Someone could show tracks of cheating saying "i was there doing it" (wich someone allredy did). and there woould still be "ifs" and "buts" (we allredy seen thoose) ..so whats the point.


U say the Lerche cheat has been proven to be somethingelse than sound mod cheat.....where was that proven?


Must have missed that part.


Checkruntime=2 has been said to stop only the complete novice, nothing more.

[zapatista]

ah missed this as well then -

so you mean the lerche thing... apparently not proof of cheating. so, no i did catch that. and all the youtube clips you showed. someone, if they are so adamant about the cheating and getting into chkruntim=2 servers, post a movie clip showing it exactly. until then this is stuff that could be done on an unprotected server, and could simply be down to paranoid ideation.
hell maybe it is optimistic, beats being a "sky is falling, we're all doomed"

you really aint the smartest kid on the block are you ?

you'r either playing the fool here thinking we aint smart enough to see through your feigned ignorance, or you aint smart enough to find the information yourself in the kiddie hack forum you been posting for the last weeks ?

which of those 2 is it ?

checksum 2 dont work no more, and it hasnt for months. the horse has bolted, case closed.

[Lo0n]

"Doesnt sound like someone who couldnt care less"?....the me couldnt care less part is me not posting proof here of all places.


And as i said, there will allways be a "if" or a "but". Someone could show tracks of cheating saying "i was there doing it" (wich someone allredy did). and there woould still be "ifs" and "buts" (we allredy seen thoose) ..so whats the point.


U say the Lerche cheat has been proven to be somethingelse than sound mod cheat.....where was that proven?


Must have missed that part.


Checkruntime=2 has been said to stop only the complete novice, nothing more.

it "has been said" but not shown. as for the rest, well apparently the lerche is done by messing with the conf.ini file.
the posted track just shows a lerche in a server, not the version used (i believe 4.05 is easier to change critical files), not the server security settings, nothing other than it being used. it is out of context, and that's what makes it really little else than a standard to gather around for anyone who has already convinced themselves.

want to prove it? post a fraps vid of all the steps, that will cover any doubt.
if you're worried about posting a cheat tutorial, well... according to you there is no need for a tutorial, is there? everyone is doing it already.

and zap, well i didn't read that bit so could you post me a link - always good to have the information. as for intelligence to do it... well, actually looking for it is more of a factor. i guess you're on there more than i am. hey! here's an idea, why don't you do the fraps vid, seeing as you have access.
as for the kiddie thing... well recent poll shows the average age to be pushing into the thirties. there may be other forums you are referring to but i guess that's the only one you've managed to find so far.

[stalkervision]

zapatista;31494 cant you even count to 10 using your own fingers ?


Apparently your the one with a real learning deficiency here not me since you can't even understand a simple web page like this one. That or your a balded face lier. Which is it?


zapatista... he problem with the unrestricted hacking in il2 is not about what people like to add or change, it is that suddenly you have 1 group flying online with the legitimate il2 specifications, and another group is on the same full real server but has added gun sight gyro's to planes that shouldnt have it, increased their visibility by removing the cockpit, added mirrors in planes that dont normally have them, increased dot sizes for distant aircraft etc..

stalker..One can download these mods or not. These gunsites and mirror mods you just mention I have found not very useful in the heat of battle. The other "mods" you mention I haven't seen on the site you quote but don't understand. I believe you must be a very very poor flier to worry about these "mods" as much as you do...


zapatista..so lets see how many fingers you need for this

Stalker.. Repeating shop worn insults seems to be your forte. At least I can count using my fingers. Your are as goofy as they come..

zapatista.. 1) if everybody uses the same legitimate il2 files to fly online, then there is a level playing field and no cheating

Stalker.. You really are the crummest flier around aren't you? Anyone can use these mods buddy or aren't you aware of this? I suggest you download them all proto because you obviously need them all and please stop constantly whining like the little girl about them will you sally?

zapatista...2) people can now with hacked files join full real servers and remain undetected, using completely altered game option settings (removing cockpits, adding plane sets that are not allowed etc..) and use plane sets with different features (adding mirrors, adding idiot proof gyro gun sights , ... etc)

Stalker...You could download all these options and it still wouldn't help you. I suggest the "idiot proof gunsite" first for you to really see if it is truly "idiot proof" Your the perfect test case..


zapatista..3) nobody cares what the hack kiddies get up to late at night playing with eachother as long as they only do it in their own home, and dont harm any animals or other humans

Stalker.."hack Kiddies"? You really are a disgrunteled hacker aren't you? What is the matter didn't pass "hack 101" ?

zapatista..you only needed 3 little steps to understand it so you only need one hand, and you can keep doing with the other hand what you have been doing all along so far

Stalker..

and what does one do with the other hand zapatista since apparently I am speaking to a real true expert here in one hand, hand management? :)

[Evgeny]

I think it's time to stop, guys. We don't need a hacking forum here.

[stalkervision]

I think it's time to stop, guys. We don't need a hacking forum here.


Thats right Evgeny. Personally I believe we should have a combat flying 101 class thread here because apparently this is where the real problem lies IMO..

These guys couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack... :)

[zapatista]

lol, and this one is the funniest one yet !

hang in there with the poor english, it gets quiet funny !



hack kiddy nr 1:
Hello I start this post to give ideas for plane hacks so the modellers can have more ideas to work, my plan is to give the name of the current plane, the possible modification and final result.
I will start with some Spanish Civil War planes so...
1-Add the Betty nose and cockpit to the He111 to have the He111B the version used in Spain by Legion Condor and in China by the nationalists
2-Add a straight wing to the PZL11 to have the Dewoitine D37
3-Add a fixed landing gear to the I153 to have the I15, the version used in Spain
4-Add a Inline engine to the U2 to have a Polikarpov Rz Natacha
5-In line engine to the Ar196 for a Heinkel 60 Seaplane

and, hello hello, who do we have here now, mr innocent himself

fly_zo:
we modded everything else why not that if there is interest ?


you gotta be freakin kiddin me , right ?

so now we are going to get a rata, with the nose and engine of a 190, and the guns of a hurricane ?

[Lo0n]

I think it's time to stop, guys. We don't need a hacking forum here.

fair do's evgeny, no we don't. sorry for anything that crosses the line in that respect.

[Lo0n]

you really are a frequent visitor zap, perhaps you aren't as innocent as you make yourself out to be.

[zapatista]

I think it's time to stop, guys. We don't need a hacking forum here.

you have my vote !

kick the lot of them out

[stalkervision]

zapatista stop whining like a girl and just try to become a better combat flier why don't you? Hell, I have shot down two to three mig 15s in a Ju-88 for christs sakes! I have shot down Me-109's in dogfights with a-20!

You apparently already are expert in one hand hand managment. Why don't you put all that constant practice to a good use for once?..... :)

[Baron]

it "has been said" but not shown. as for the rest, well apparently the lerche is done by messing with the conf.ini file.
the posted track just shows a lerche in a server, not the version used (i believe 4.05 is easier to change critical files), not the server security settings, nothing other than it being used. it is out of context, and that's what makes it really little else than a standard to gather around for anyone who has already convinced themselves.

want to prove it? post a fraps vid of all the steps, that will cover any doubt.
if you're worried about posting a cheat tutorial, well... according to you there is no need for a tutorial, is there? everyone is doing it already.

and zap, well i didn't read that bit so could you post me a link - always good to have the information. as for intelligence to do it... well, actually looking for it is more of a factor. i guess you're on there more than i am. hey! here's an idea, why don't you do the fraps vid, seeing as you have access.
as for the kiddie thing... well recent poll shows the average age to be pushing into the thirties. there may be other forums you are referring to but i guess that's the only one you've managed to find so far.



The tracks with the Lerche is 4.09...suprises me if there are any doubts about that what so ever.


And your right about the "checkruntime=2 stops only the basement dwelers"..it has only been said...as it has ONLY been said that the Lerche is a old cheat done with confini (first thing iv ever heard about such a easy cheat..wonder why noone used it before)

So, thoose things have only been said, wich leaves us with several tracks showing an ex. of what can be done by a waaay larger group than before. A Lerache on several servers (the biggest ones on HL in fact) where there shouldnt be a Learche......i know cus i fly on several of them myselfe.


I know wich i belive over other claims made or said.


Saying a posted proof is an old cheat doesnt cut it. If u or any onelse wanna contest it.....do so by posting exact same proof showing its a fake. Thats how it works.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

So said person was "looking" for undenible proof, said person "wants" concrete evidance?

Pardon my less than perfect english (i know how it enoys u)...but i couldnt care less.


Doenst matter what kind of proof will be posted, there will allways be a "if" or "but" in there somewhere. I hope those with proof (me being one of them) will relize that in the next page or 2 so we can put this joke of a thredh to bed to. A joke, as in: never ending story.

Those with proof can show them where it actually matters, to Oleg for ex. so it can help him come up with a solution (not that i think it will happen). Maby post them over at Ubi zoo showing people what to look out for. Just a couple of examples.


BTW, Im still bilingual, with english as my second language...how about u?


Maby i can post in my native language and u can correct my spelling then to...mmm, how about it?

Ok, this is so damn stupid! Someone claims to have proof, the acussed asks to see said proof, the one with proof says "I have it, but I don't think I'll show you". I'm sorry but if you say you have proof and don't produce it then that makes you a liar! I've tried to stay out of these threads because they are going nowhere but this was too much to ignore, I mean the nerve! I can't beleive you actually have the nerve to claim "I have proof" and then when asked to show it for the world to see you are right you say" ummm welll, I have proof but I...I don't wanna show it...", That if fecking insane!!!

[Baron]

Ok, this is so damn stupid! Someone claims to have proof, the acussed asks to see said proof, the one with proof says "I have it, but I don't think I'll show you". I'm sorry but if you say you have proof and don't produce it then that makes you a liar! I've tried to stay out of these threads because they are going nowhere but this was too much to ignore, I mean the nerve! I can't beleive you actually have the nerve to claim "I have proof" and then when asked to show it for the world to see you are right you say" ummm welll, I have proof but I...I don't wanna show it...", That if fecking insane!!!



Did u even read earlier posts? Especially those made by myselfe?


Please, god, dont make me repeat myselfe again.

[Lo0n]

The tracks with the Lerche is 4.09...suprises me if there are any doubts about that what so ever.


And your right about the "checkruntime=2 stops only the basement dwelers"..it has only been said...as it has ONLY been said that the Lerche is a old cheat done with confini (first thing iv ever heard about such a easy cheat..wonder why noone used it before)

So, thoose things have only been said, wich leaves us with several tracks showing an ex. of what can be done by a waaay larger group than before. A Lerache on several servers (the biggest ones on HL in fact) where there shouldnt be a Learche......i know cus i fly on several of them myselfe.


I know wich i belive over other claims made or said.


Saying a posted proof is an old cheat doesnt cut it. If u or any onelse wanna contest it.....do so by posting exact same proof showing its a fake. Thats how it works.

4.09? really? that doesn't look good for the future then.
and well actually it does cut it. weight of evidence and all that. you have to show it is a valid piece of evidence, using the fraps vid of the whole process. if i wanted to be difficult i could say that this was done in a private dogfight server, named after the famous ones, with a bunch of actors playing the part of the outraged. i don't for a minute think that, but remove any elements of doubt eh baron? oh no, because that would mean you would have to stop the arguments and finger pointing and insults. you don't care for the truth, you just want to carry on with that. repeatedly. you loooove it.

and zap, really... baron is showing you how to troll. do better.

[Baron]

4.09? really? that doesn't look good for the future then.
and well actually it does cut it. weight of evidence and all that. you have to show it is a valid piece of evidence, using the fraps vid of the whole process. if i wanted to be difficult i could say that this was done in a private dogfight server, named after the famous ones, with a bunch of actors playing the part of the outraged. i don't for a minute think that, but remove any elements of doubt eh baron? oh no, because that would mean you would have to stop the arguments and finger pointing and insults. you don't care for the truth, you just want to carry on with that. repeatedly. you loooove it.

and zap, really... baron is showing you how to troll. do better.



Like i said, if`s and buts till the cows come home.


U said it yourselfe, if u wanted to be difficoult u could................


Wich is exactly whats hapening here.



BTW, U or your modfriends dont get to decide whats trolling and whats not.......sry.


Thx.



Gonna listen to Evgeny here and drop this dead horse and move on.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

The lerche cheat was posted on ubi forums long before the sound mod and it was confirmed there that it was a trick of editing a config file at the right time and in such a way as to allow the lerche to be used on any server, again, before the sound mod. Many many people saw this thread and if the search function worked worth a crap I'd post the link. That lerche video is proof of cheating, but only that cheating happened before the sound mod ever came out, modding is not the sole inventor of cheat, print screen, cable pulling, packet manipulation of all sorts was prevalent long before the code was hacked. No one denies that the potential for cheating is there, what we are denying is that using a mod makes you a cheater and that the mods have increased the amount of cheating. I have not seen one single cheat that was attributable to the mods while flying online, I have seen packet cheaters though....

[Lo0n]

Like i said, if`s and buts till the cows come home.


U said it yourselfe, if u wanted to be difficoult u could................


Wich is exactly whats hapening here.



BTW, U or your modfriends dont get to decide whats trolling and whats not.......sry.


Thx.



Gonna listen to Evgeny here and drop this dead horse and move on.

the only "if" was "if i wanted to be difficult" which was an illustration of how far you could go to back up your claims, given the apparent lack of evidence. i do not need to go to that extent because you are incapable of posting a simple video to back up what you say. and no-one gets to decide what trolling is, it simply is trolling. you are providing a world class example. as for the horse - it's more of a bloody smear that is still being hit with sticks.
still busy at the other place zap?
oh, just for added flavour
Dont worrie Zapatista.

Some people in theese forums got it into theire heads that it is up to them to decide the rules here and what goes and what doesnt.

That will change very soon.



yep, people like Zap

you have my vote !

kick the lot of them out

But again, leave it alone in here, your only feeding the trolls.
or in this case, each other.

[LEXX]

Urufu_Shinjiro:: No one denies that the potential for cheating is there, what we are denying is that using a mod makes you a cheater and that the mods have increased the amount of cheating. I have not seen one single cheat that was attributable to the mods while flying online, I have seen packet cheaters though....
That's why this thread serves no purpose. If there is proof it would be poasted because it would need to be talked about. Further, if there is proven hack cheating, than its because of Online cheaters in anonymous public dogfight shooter servers and not honest Online players or Offline players.

[jasonbirder]

kick the lot of them out

Either people are free to discuss the Sound Mod or they aren't...
As it’s an issue that’s important to people from both sides of the argument (pro & anti-modders) it seems sensible that open discussion and debate should be allowed.
The level of interest in it can be quickly gauged by the number of posts and views of the appropriate Forum threads.
As the anti-mod camp believes they have a convincing argument, why is it that some from the anti-mod camp seem so keen to shut down further discussion and debate?
The discussion should be carried out in a spirit of fairness and amicability - without resort to insults or flaming – but who would want to move to a situation where we have locked threads, deleted threads and user bans…Surely that’s just censorship?

[zapatista]

zapatista just try to become a better combat flier why don't you? Hell, I have shot down two to three mig 15s in a Ju-88 for christs sakes! I have shot down Me-109's in dogfights with a-20!

ahh i see, you were totally misunderstood all along.

what you really meant from the beginning was that it doesnt matter that people with hacked files get onto fullreal servers, if the others get shot down it just means they are bad pilots.

and learn how to use the quote system on forums willya, the text soup you post aint worth reading

[stalkervision]

ahh i see, you were totally misunderstood all along.

what you really meant from the beginning was that it doesnt matter that people with hacked files get onto fullreal servers, if the others get shot down it just means they are bad pilots.

and learn how to use the quote system on forums willya, the text soup you post aint worth reading


No, I understand you quite well. Why is it that the most simple of minded posters always believes they are so complex they think people don't understand their nonsense, god? Even with your posts in quotes your rational isn't worth reading no matter how it is posted..

I could posts all my stuff in quotes all day long and you would still be incapable of understanding it. I figured this way you would at least bother to make an effort to try to understand what I was saying. What is the matter can't differentiate "Stalker" from your own insipid names.. zapatista! :)


.................................................. .................................................. ...................


zapatista;31494 cant you even count to 10 using your own fingers ?


Stalker..Apparently your the one with a real learning deficiency here not me since you can't even understand a simple web page like this one. That or your a balded face lier. Which is it?


zapatista... he problem with the unrestricted hacking in il2 is not about what people like to add or change, it is that suddenly you have 1 group flying online with the legitimate il2 specifications, and another group is on the same full real server but has added gun sight gyro's to planes that shouldnt have it, increased their visibility by removing the cockpit, added mirrors in planes that dont normally have them, increased dot sizes for distant aircraft etc..

stalker..One can download these mods or not. These gunsites and mirror mods you just mention I have found not very useful in the heat of battle. The other "mods" you mention I haven't seen on the site you quote but don't understand. I believe you must be a very very poor flier to worry about these "mods" as much as you do...


You see when you were talking I put "zapatista"

when I was talking I put "Stalker"

and you talk about me counting on one Hand... !!! :)

[Lo0n]

ahh i see, you were totally misunderstood all along.

what you really meant from the beginning was that it doesnt matter that people with hacked files get onto fullreal servers, if the others get shot down it just means they are bad pilots.

and learn how to use the quote system on forums willya, the text soup you post aint worth reading

zap, prove it. make that video, using the files you have access to. then you "win".
stalkers posts with the quotes are easy enough for a simpleton like me to read. see where he put his name next to the lines he added? yeah that means that bit is him. saying they aren't worth reading is oh so infantile. oh wait, you already went there didn't you?

[Lo0n]

As the anti-mod camp believes they have a convincing argument, why is it that some from the anti-mod camp seem so keen to shut down further discussion and debate?
nail. head. etc.

[zapatista]

The lerche cheat was posted on ubi forums long before the sound mod and it was confirmed there that it was a trick of editing a config file at the right time and in such a way as to allow the lerche to be used on any server, again, before the sound mod. Many many people saw this thread and if the search function worked worth a crap I'd post the link.

That lerche video is proof of cheating, but only that cheating happened before the sound mod ever came out, modding is not the sole inventor of cheat, print screen, cable pulling, packet manipulation of all sorts was prevalent long before the code was hacked.

No one denies that the potential for cheating is there, what we are denying is that using a mod makes you a cheater and that the mods have increased the amount of cheating. I have not seen one single cheat that was attributable to the mods while flying online, I have seen packet cheaters though....

urufu,

i think this is your first post in this thread, so i'll take it at face value that your not just trolling like the hack kiddies who just want to keep advertising their vandalism here.

about the "cheating" with the soundmod files, the following things are known beyond doubt:
1) the soundfile hack opened up must of the previously locked data in il2, including plane features like engines, wing shape, plane size, mirrors, cockpit shape and canopy bars/glass, removing cockpits completely, etc..
2) even on servers running checksum 2 they cant detect soundmod files or other additionally edited parameters anymore
3) i have posted you examples of people adding gyro sights to planes that normally dont have them, adding mirrors, and people flying unauthorized planes on full real servers. if you look at the files the hack kiddies use, all that is available, and you have no way of telling what is switched on/off when they then join servers online

and that makes the situation much worse then befor all this soundmod started being available to everyone and his dog.

i'm not sure what else you'd need. i'd say using any of those features on servers that are set to full real constitutes cheating since, it gives an unfair advantage compared to the other flyer's.

and as some of the hack kiddies put it themselves

:lowfighter

If I wanted to cheat with a plane I'd add just say 5% boost in any performance compartment (turn time, climb rate etc), then of course it would be hard to prove anything about my cheating.
I believe there are cheaters, but the question is how many percentagewise, and how smart?
Sure it's impossible to answer such questions...

it doesnt matter whatsoever to most legitimate il2 users if some people used hacked files like that on their own, or with their little friends in some online server. what matters is that you now dont know anymore what unfair advantages other people have when you join some of the better online servers.

[stalkervision]

zap, prove it. make that video, using the files you have access to. then you "win".
stalkers posts with the quotes are easy enough for a simpleton like me to read. see where he put his name next to the lines he added? yeah that means that bit is him. saying they aren't worth reading is oh so infantile. oh wait, you already went there didn't you?

well I guess you got the post easy enough huh loon? :) Apparently zapatista couldn't figure that one out even though he has such a superior mind we don't understand any of his logic..

[zapatista]

No, I understand you quite well. Why is it that the most simple of minded posters always believes they are so complex they think people don't understand their nonsense, god? Even with your posts in quotes your rational isn't worth reading no matter how it is posted..

I could posts all my stuff in quotes all day long and you would still be incapable of understanding it. I figured this way you would at least bother to make an effort to try to understand what I was saying. What is the matter can't differentiate "Stalker" from your own insipid names.. zapatista! :)

err and thats it ? try and use all your crayons at least

post something meaningful next time if you are going to press the submit button

[zapatista]

Urufu_Shinjiro::
That's why this thread serves no purpose. If there is proof it would be poasted because it would need to be talked about. Further, if there is proven hack cheating, than its because of Online cheaters in anonymous public dogfight shooter servers and not honest Online players or Offline players.

lexx,

i have seen your name posted there in at least one or 2 posts, so you have had a look and are familiar with the extent that files are now being modified. you then also know that none of this can be detected anymore when people join fullreal servers.

how come you arnt concerned ?

[stalkervision]

err and thats it ? try and use all your crayons at least

post something meaningful next time if you are going to press the submit button


So now you want me to use crayons colors now for you to understand the posts? I was looking for some nice smilie quote Pumkins and kitty quote pics for you. Would't you prefer those?
:)

[Lo0n]

urufu,

i think this is your first post in this thread, so i'll take it at face value that your not just trolling like the hack kiddies who just want to keep advertising their vandalism here.

about the "cheating" with the soundmod files, the following things are known beyond doubt:
1) the soundfile hack opened up must of the previously locked data in il2, including plane features like engines, wing shape, plane size, mirrors, cockpit shape and canopy bars/glass, removing cockpits completely, etc..
2) even on servers running checksum 2 they cant detect soundmod files or other additionally edited parameters anymore
3) i have posted you examples of people adding gyro sights to planes that normally dont have them, adding mirrors, and people flying unauthorized planes on full real servers. if you look at the files the hack kiddies use, all that is available, and you have no way of telling what is switched on/off when they then join servers online

good job advertising yourself there zap, seems to me that you are one of those "hack kiddies".
the locked data... well i've not seen where it has opened up wing shape or removed sections of pits, or resized them... i've seen an added mirror and a swapped out gun sight, only done with a heap of photographic and written evidence to back it up.
speaking of evidence... not seen any from yourself about this checksum=2 being broken, please do show us, come one. you must have it somewhere, someone of your vastly superior intellect and maturity must be able to produce this, surely? or do you want to leave it to throwing insults, trying to "cry to headteacher" or get those wanting to discuss this banned?

[Viking]

Please guys let it drop!

Zapatista is only striving to get this thread closed down so he can claim “victory”.
Refrain from answering and arguing and just let this thread stand as an monument over the unjust accusations.

[zapatista]

good job advertising yourself there zap, seems to me that you are one of those "hack kiddies".

its like the old joke about the fool being able to ask more questions then 10 wise men can answer lol

i'll give you a similar one in return, unless you right now jump of the roof of your house then this proves you are cheating online.

easy really, how to create an absurd argument.try and use some higher reasoning functions next time, add a bit of executive control to the thoughts popping up in your reptilian brain centers.

yeps i had a look this afternoon to see which places provided the qtim files and hacks, simple really, took exactly 3 min with google. even funnier how there seems to be no honor amongst thieves, and half you lot that are blabbering here arn't even aware what exactly can be done with those files now, or how bad things have gotten. neither do you even seem to read your own forums very well it seems.


the locked data... well i've not seen where it has opened up wing shape or removed sections of pits, or resized them... i've seen an added mirror and a swapped out gun sight, only done with a heap of photographic and written evidence to back it up.

thats why its so easy to determine most of you "hack apologists" are just trolling here, you come and pretend to be all innocent, and all this is blatant in your own back yard.

how about a nice G4 replacing the G2 109 in game ? a bit of a hack job in all the cutting and welding, or should i say cutting and pasting ?
This G4 replaces the stock G2 in the sim.
Arrow Fuselage: From G2.
Arrow Wings: Taken from G6 (>To obtain the little wing bulges ).
Arrow Wheels & undercarriage: Taken from G6 (>To obtain the fixed tailwheel ).


or how about a "G10-Erla" replaces the stock G10 in the sim ?
again all you need is a bit of cut and pasting

Tailplane: From G10.
Wheels & undercarriage: Taken from G10
Engine hood: Taken from G2 , To obtain the flat left engine hood and a correct harmonization between MGs furrows and compressor intake
Antenna: Taken from K4 (>for the specific antenna missing mast).
Wings: Taken from K4 (>for the large wing bulges )


et voila, nothing a 12 yo with notepad cant do

ahh and lets have a little guess now to see whom of you think that with all this the visibility from the cockpit will be improved or reduced compared to the stock standard planes ?

1, 2, 3... all together now, ... improved of course ! they have even removed the armored cockpit glass visual effect so you can see better.

and i have another riddle for you now, will using these planes now be detected when joining full real servers.... you should know the answer by now, of course they wont. and half the lot of you will keep jabbering on of course that using these planes is "more real", lol except of course you wont be telling the other people on the servers you are using them

http://rapidshare.com/files/77673952/frankenmonsters.zip.html

speaking of evidence... not seen any from yourself about this checksum=2 being broken, please do show us .
hang on now, you want me to hack my own files and go and cheat online to prove to the cheaters that it is possible ? you might have missed it, but i am here arguing against it.

[JG52Uther]

Ok, this is so damn stupid! Someone claims to have proof, the acussed asks to see said proof, the one with proof says "I have it, but I don't think I'll show you". I'm sorry but if you say you have proof and don't produce it then that makes you a liar! I've tried to stay out of these threads because they are going nowhere but this was too much to ignore, I mean the nerve! I can't beleive you actually have the nerve to claim "I have proof" and then when asked to show it for the world to see you are right you say" ummm welll, I have proof but I...I don't wanna show it...", That if fecking insane!!!
Thanks Urufu,it is all I ever wanted.But it is useless,it is not worth the abuse to try and put your point of view across.Best to stay out of the threads now,and let them say what they want.At the end of the day its not really important compared to what is happening in the real world is it.
Today I learned that a friend of mine had his leg blown off this week in Iraq fighting terrorists.THAT is important.This is not.

[zapatista]

Thanks Urufu,it is all I ever wanted.But it is useless,it is not worth the abuse to try and put your point of view across.Best to stay out of the threads now,and let them say what they want..

your being hypocritical uther

Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 172 Location: UK
Post Can someone please make a 109 E mirror?
Forget the poll,can someone please do this? Please

ahh but you were badly misunderstood were you, in fact you asked for it only, and weren't going to use it ?

or was it, you only were going to use it offline

mmm or was it, you were going to use it online but actually msg everybody to let them know you had extra features added to your plane ?

which was it ?

[JG52Uther]

'Today I learned that a friend of mine had his leg blown off this week in Iraq fighting terrorists.THAT is important.This is not'

You missed that bit off your quote.


And you did'nt quote this one either:

'zapatista seems to know more about modding in il2 than I ever will!
Although I love these mods,I have 2 installs of il2. Unless I am playing with friends,I use the unmodded version online.'


Yes I will only use the mirror offline,although no one has actually made one yet.

Done talking to you.

[Lo0n]

its like the old joke about the fool being able to ask more questions then 10 wise men can answer lol

i'll give you a similar one in return, unless you right now jump of the roof of your house then this proves you are cheating online.

easy really, how to create an absurd argument.try and use some higher reasoning functions next time, add a bit of executive control to the thoughts popping up in your reptilian brain centers.

yeps i had a look this afternoon to see which places provided the qtim files and hacks, simple really, took exactly 3 min with google. even funnier how there seems to be no honor amongst thieves, and half you lot that are blabbering here arn't even aware what exactly can be done with those files now, or how bad things have gotten. neither do you even seem to read your own forums very well it seems.



thats why its so easy to determine most of you "hack apologists" are just trolling here, you come and pretend to be all innocent, and all this is blatant in your own back yard.

how about a nice G4 replacing the G2 109 in game ? a bit of a hack job in all the cutting and welding, or should i say cutting and pasting ?


or how about a "G10-Erla" replaces the stock G10 in the sim ?
again all you need is a bit of cut and pasting



et voila, nothing a 12 yo with notepad cant do

ahh and lets have a little guess now to see whom of you think that with all this the visibility from the cockpit will be improved or reduced compared to the stock standard planes ?

1, 2, 3... all together now, ... improved of course ! they have even removed the armored cockpit glass visual effect so you can see better.

and i have another riddle for you now, will using these planes now be detected when joining full real servers.... you should know the answer by now, of course they wont. and half the lot of you will keep jabbering on of course that using these planes is "more real", lol except of course you wont be telling the other people on the servers you are using them

http://rapidshare.com/files/77673952/frankenmonsters.zip.html


hang on now, you want me to hack my own files and go and cheat online to prove to the cheaters that it is possible ? you might have missed it, but i am here arguing against it.

no i didn't miss that, but you have access to all this, you are accusing all of cheating and being able to, so prove it. you can delete the files once you are done and go back to stock, and you can warn the servers you are conducting a test so there are no long term implications. wouldn't want to see you banned form servers for proving your point.

actually the reason i don't know what is possible to alter for cheating is because i have zero interest in doing that. i don't fly online at all, if i ever did it would be with a fresh clean install, where is the satisfaction to be found from beating someone using cheats? so i won't be jumping off my roof, which surely is against some form of conduct, maybe not the forum RoC, but certainly those of an adult who proclaims intellectual and moral superiority.
the point of the absurd argument is that it can be extended to a ridiculous point, reductio ad absurdum, so where you say having a mirror is a cheat, i can just as easily say that having track ir is a cheat, an advantage that is not enjoyed by everyone. jesus, mirrors are no use when you have f6! you probably have a greater advantage if you use a 30 inch screen. fair enough, blatant cheats like a mk108 armed uber spitfire may be possible with the mod, but i have not seen it, i have not heard of it, and i have seen no evidence that it can be used on a chkruntime=2 server. if you are so adamant that it can be done then please post something showing it. educate me.

where were you going with that little tirade? seems you went off on a tangent and started trying to insult me. i've asked one question, nd that is what proof you have. surely 10 wise men are not needed for this. you asked no question of me so, well, what do i answer?

you need to read more at the other place, or quote in context. the frankenplanes have the fm of the planes they replace, so that g4 is a cosmetically altered g2, ditto the g10 erla. they replace a slot in the game. as far as i have seen fm dm and wm are the same as the ones they replace. so at a guess, if they were used in a server where some did not have the mods, then they would appear as a g2 and a g10 to those people. also, at a guess, they would be hardly able to tell the difference anyway. as for whether they can be used in a chkruntime=2 server... well i still don't know, because there is still nothing concrete posted to prove one way or another.

sorry the hear about your friend uther, does put stuff in perspective.

[zapatista]

'Today I learned that a friend of mine had his leg blown off this week in Iraq fighting terrorists.THAT is important.This is not'

You missed that bit off your quote.

no i didnt. you'r cheapening and disrespecting the tragedy your friend experienced, to bring it up here as somehow justifying your previous pro hack statements, which is why i didnt respond to it.

'And you did'nt quote this one either:
'zapatista seems to know more about modding in il2 than I ever will!

one moment your pretending no cheating is possible or happening, then in reply you get lots of posts proving exactly the opposite, and now your complaining the people arguing against the possibility of cheating online are actually hackers ? make up your mind.

it's this feigned ignorance and denying of how bad things are with hacks in il2 that bothers me the most with your lot posting here. half the time you dont even seem to know what is actually happening in your own little forum lair, but it doesnt seem to stop you making 50 posts pretending things are honky dory and it all doesnt matter.

fyi as a worst case scenario you now have people on full real servers flying with increased performance planes, set to no cockpits, and looking for enemy planes with fluorescent orange skins and triple sized il2 dots, etc.. does that mean this extreme form of cheating is rampant, no it isnt, but milder versions of that example are now a daily occurrence. add a gun gyro to your plane, a mirror, added visibility, its not a slippery slope, its an out of control bush fire !

'Show me the thread in which I promoted the hack? I see no evidence of links to websites,pictures of hacks,how to hack etc in any of my posts.

i'd say asking for new hack features fits the "promoting the hack" category, dont you ?

Yes I will only use the mirror offline,although no one has actually made one yet.

sure , i believe you. especially after the 10 pictures you added showing the real historical 109 E often did have a mirror. it wouldnt really be a big deal using it online then right ? i mean , other planes already have mirrors to, right ?

[Robert]

I watched them an all I can see is a deliberate troll attempt there.


What was the plane set? If the Lerche wasn't included in the planeset then yes it's DEFINATELY a cheat.

I tried to D/L the ntrk, but the uploader removed it.

[jasonbirder]

I can't help but think we're all being diverted away from the real argument here if we only discuss the pro's and con's of the Sound Mod in terms of whether any form of online cheating occurs...

The bigger picture is that the vast majority of IL2 play is offline rather than online (Oleg is quoted as saying approximately 95% of players are Offline players...which would fit well with industry estimates for the typical Online/Offline ratio of gameplayers) and of the people that do play online...only a proportion of them will play on Hyperlobby - with the rest playing on their own dedicated or squadron servers or through peer to peer connections...
So even if there is any cheating it is not something which will affect the vast majority of IL2 players.


Besides cheating has always been possible in IL2 - its not a new subject for discussion...Prnt Sreen, disconnecting, lag manipulation have existed for a long time...as has gamesmanship such as flaps on a slider, trim abuse, altering the gamma on your monitor so you can see through the G blackout etc etc...so to imply that before the existance of the Sound Mod everything was great, following its release everything is appalling is a complete misrepresentation of the situation...I can quote from threads about Online cheating that were posted back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 etc etc...

Besides...how prevelent is it really? Even if it is possible to manipulate the game on closed servers...is it really occuring with any regularity? For all the ping pong arguments in this thread...there are no examples of genuine online cheating refered to here...merely examples of people showing it is possible...I can only assume that rather than servers being full of 1000 KPH Cr42s with Rayguns that in actuality life is continuing exactly as it was before the release of the Sound Mod.

And even if it did occur, surely its the responsibility of the Server Admins and players populating a server to identify and ban any offenders...If you choose to fly in an environment that allows and encourages cheating (IE: an open access serverwhere you are flying with random, anonymous people...in a competitive, stat-driven, win at all costs environment) surely you should take responsibility for making it a fair and enjoyable environment to fly in...rather than throwing that responsibility back onto the wider IL2 community who have no interest or stake in it whatsoever.

So in summary...Cheating doesn't affect most people, its not a new thing anyway, it doesn't seem to occur that often and perhaps stopping it is the concern of the hyperlobby players and server admins rather than a concern for the bulk of the IL2 community who are neither interested nor affected!

[Lo0n]

I can't help but think we're all being diverted away from the real argument here if we only discuss the pro's and con's of the Sound Mod in terms of whether any form of online cheating occurs...

The bigger picture is that the vast majority of IL2 play is offline rather than online (Oleg is quoted as saying approximately 95% of players are Offline players...which would fit well with industry estimates for the typical Online/Offline ratio of gameplayers) and of the people that do play online...only a proportion of them will play on Hyperlobby - with the rest playing on their own dedicated or squadron servers or through peer to peer connections...
So even if there is any cheating it is not something which will affect the vast majority of IL2 players.


Besides cheating has always been possible in IL2 - its not a new subject for discussion...Prnt Sreen, disconnecting, lag manipulation have existed for a long time...as has gamesmanship such as flaps on a slider, trim abuse, altering the gamma on your monitor so you can see through the G blackout etc etc...so to imply that before the existance of the Sound Mod everything was great, following its release everything is appalling is a complete misrepresentation of the situation...I can quote from threads about Online cheating that were posted back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 etc etc...

Besides...how prevelent is it really? Even if it is possible to manipulate the game on closed servers...is it really occuring with any regularity? For all the ping pong arguments in this thread...there are no examples of genuine online cheating refered to here...merely examples of people showing it is possible...I can only assume that rather than servers being full of 1000 KPH Cr42s with Rayguns that in actuality life is continuing exactly as it was before the release of the Sound Mod.

And even if it did occur, surely its the responsibility of the Server Admins and players populating a server to identify and ban any offenders...If you choose to fly in an environment that allows and encourages cheating (IE: an open access serverwhere you are flying with random, anonymous people...in a competitive, stat-driven, win at all costs environment) surely you should take responsibility for making it a fair and enjoyable environment to fly in...rather than throwing that responsibility back onto the wider IL2 community who have no interest or stake in it whatsoever.

So in summary...Cheating doesn't affect most people, its not a new thing anyway, it doesn't seem to occur that often and perhaps stopping it is the concern of the hyperlobby players and server admins rather than a concern for the bulk of the IL2 community who are neither interested nor affected!

get out! you're not allowed such reasoned discourse here!
lol
ahh jason, that is about the best summary going.

[Rama]

No, it's not a "reasoned" discourse. It's a discourse of someone trying to proove a point and obvioulsy not sharing onliner concerns.
In an other thread I allready showed that onliners are one important part of this sim and that a big amount of the toys you're playing with in this sim were made by onliners... without them, the sim would never have became what it is now... so you can't just ignore them.
Now there's no threat on "offliners" or "free modders". hacked tools to modify at will 4.08 are available, and this will not change.... so from now on, everybody will be able to mod 4.08 to the extend he wants... and it's not gonna change.... even after 4.09 will be available.
Now there's a real potential problem online.... you want some track to proove it... just do a google search and you'll find plenty. If you want to find you will...
Discussing about it is also not going to change anything. So far by playing Aiforce War? I didn't saw obvious use of these possibilities (as somme seen on dogfight servers), but there's no doubt it's gonna come, and becomes a real problem.
My only hope is 4.09, to restore onliners confidence and keep this game still strong online until SoW:BoB.... (and in this case "free modders" will be happy with 4.08, or even 4.09 without using appropriate "CRT=3".... and onliners will be happy... )
There's absolutly no need to debate and to flame... the only thing we can do is.... wait...

[Baron]

What was the plane set? If the Lerche wasn't included in the planeset then yes it's DEFINATELY a cheat.

I tried to D/L the ntrk, but the uploader removed it.



I fly on several of thoose servers myselfe.....NO ONE of them have the Lerche avalible.


But thats ok, thoose tracks only show somone beeing ABLE to cheat if he WANTS to..it doesnt show someone actually flying arround and cheat.


So its all smooth sailing.


Dhuuuuuuuu.


To be perfectly honest, im having a blast reading all the inovative excuses the pro modders come up with. Havent had this much fun all year. LoL



The mirror on the Bf is a perfect example. Its all for the benefit of doing things as historicly correct as possible, right? I then wonder why IRL pilots REMOVED the mirror because it filled no purpose? lol....historically correct...suuure.

[Baron]

No, it's not a "reasoned" discourse. It's a discourse of someone trying to proove a point and obvioulsy not sharing onliner concerns.
In an other thread I allready showed that onliners are one important part of this sim and that a big amount of the toys you're playing with in this sim were made by onliners... without them, the sim would never have became what it is now... so you can't just ignore them.
Now there's no threat on "offliners" or "free modders". hacked tools to modify at will 4.08 are available, and this will not change.... so from now on, everybody will be able to mod 4.08 to the extend he wants... and it's not gonna change.... even after 4.09 will be available.
Now there's a real potential problem online.... you want some track to proove it... just do a google search and you'll find plenty. If you want to find you will...
Discussing about it is also not going to change anything. So far by playing Aiforce War? I didn't saw obvious use of these possibilities (as somme seen on dogfight servers), but there's no doubt it's gonna come, and becomes a real problem.
My only hope is 4.09, to restore onliners confidence and keep this game still strong online until SoW:BoB.... (and in this case "free modders" will be happy with 4.08, or even 4.09 without using appropriate "CRT=3".... and onliners will be happy... )
There's absolutly no need to debate and to flame... the only thing we can do is.... wait...


But, if there are 10 000 people who only bought the sim for offline play since orginal IL2 it surly must mean that there are 10 000 offliners active right now...doesnt it?


Same with onliners, all the 700+ online at HL at any given day..is all the same 700+ in the intire world on any given day....surly?


And like u said.....onliners are only bagage, a group that has no effect on the game what so ever. Oleg would have been twice as successfull hadnt it been for online whiners.


And Zapatista, your waisting your breath, they agreed with u and "us" long ago, they are just making u pay for being right and are enjoying every minute of it.

I know we are right, u know it, they know it, who cares if they admitt we are? They wont admitt anything, unless hell freezes over.

[zapatista]

get out! you're not allowed such reasoned discourse here!
lol
ahh jason, that is about the best summary going.

dont you get a bit embarrassed giving each other hand jobs in public ?

[zapatista]

you must be the runt of the hacker litter, because you consistently make the least sense


The bigger picture is that the vast majority of IL2 play is offline rather than online (Oleg is quoted as saying approximately 95% of players are Offline players...which would fit well with industry estimates for the typical Online/Offline ratio of gameplayers) and of the people that do play online..

so lets translate the jason-speak,....the point that you are making is that therefore online cheating should be allowed completely unrestricted, even promoted,, just because it doesnt matter to jason ?

not only is that absurd, but whatever little time oleg had to add the last few fixes to other import bugs in the 4.09 patch, it being the LAST chance to fix things, now wont occur as extensively because they have to plug the hack leak, thanks jason, great idea there !

the online multiplayer community has also been the most active in providing feedback, making requests, and influencing further developments in il2 since its inception. even if it is a part of total sales, rather than the complete market. and your quote is dated, it will nowadays be at least around 50%, with the increase in net access in the last years.


.only a proportion of them will play on Hyperlobby - with the rest playing on their own dedicated or squadron servers or through peer to peer connections...
So even if there is any cheating it is not something which will affect the vast majority of IL2 players.

you'r on a roll now. so because jason cant count on his fingers how important online fair play is on ALL coop and dogfight servers for the community at large, we therefore should be bothered with hacking the files. let me ask my 9 yo if he sees the flaw in that......


Besides cheating has always been possible in IL2 - its not a new subject for discussion...Prnt Sreen, disconnecting, lag manipulation have existed for a long time...as has gamesmanship such as flaps on a slider, trim abuse, altering the gamma on your monitor so you can see through the G blackout etc etc...so to imply that before the existance of the Sound Mod everything was great, following its release everything is appalling is a complete misrepresentation of the situation...I can quote from threads about Online cheating that were posted back in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 etc etc...

thank the gods you dont have a job that matters in the real world. you'r basically saying that because influenza does exists and can affect people, that we therefore shouldn't do anything about malaria, cholera, pox, aids, ... etc. dont you see it is irrational aspect of the "logic" you are using ?

Besides...how prevelent is it really? Even if it is possible to manipulate the game on closed servers...is it really occuring with any regularity? For all the ping pong arguments in this thread...there are no examples of genuine online cheating refered to here...merely examples of people showing it is possible...I can only assume that rather than servers being full of 1000 KPH Cr42s with Rayguns that in actuality life is continuing exactly as it was before the release of the Sound Mod.

yes, lets take the argument to the absurd in order to try and make a point. your now saying that because there is not a shower of 1000 meteor's heading for the earth right now, that meteors dont matter. since you seem to live a sheltered life, maybe get out more on some of the better servers (yes, even those not on HL, presuming you can find them), and on voice comm's see what kind of observations the regulars have. most will have seen confirmations of cheating, and there has been a significant rise in reports since the sound hack started being spread into the wild.


And even if it did occur, surely its the responsibility of the Server Admins and players populating a server to identify and ban any offenders...If you choose to fly in an environment that allows and encourages cheating (IE: an open access serverwhere you are flying with random, anonymous people...in a competitive, stat-driven, win at all costs environment) surely you should take responsibility for making it a fair and enjoyable environment to fly in...rather than throwing that responsibility back onto the wider IL2 community who have no interest or stake in it whatsoever.
your lack of having some rational perspective on all of this is stunning ! you've now said that the existence of a widespread hack, its open promotion and widespread use actually doesnt matter at all, since people should only use servers you like, and that fairness and honesty in the whole online community isnt important. and emm, if people are really silly enough to play with other ww2 aviation enthousiasts from around the world, then really they should have some mother hen overseeing them 24/7 to make sure each user isnt cheating. i have a simpler solution, you go play werever you want with whatever you want, and the rest of us want a simple secure way to play online without cheating.

So in summary...Cheating doesn't affect most people, its not a new thing anyway, it doesn't seem to occur that often and perhaps stopping it is the concern of the hyperlobby players and server admins rather than a concern for the bulk of the IL2 community who are neither interested nor affected!

i think you need more ram and a new cpu, then reboot and ask yourself the same questions.

[Beowulf]

This is so mundane.

Everyone knows the points of view. None of you are going to change the other persons point of view. Posting over and over and belittling each other because they refuse or don't see it your way is childsplay.

This thread has gone on far too long beating the same horse to death. The Modders see it their way "as savior to the sim" the realists see it their way "Modders are the anti-christ to the sim"

If you're so worried you are flying against people using the sound mod then go join a squad or fly only with people you know. Quite gripping to the community as a whole from a perceived lofty perch and attacking one another.

For the sake of the community both sides should save us all this crap. Don't turn this place into the Zoo!! go there and fight it out....

tools!!! go ahead flame on you can't control yourself...

[zapatista]

no i didn't miss that, but you have access to all this, you are accusing all of cheating and being able to, so prove it.

you can delete the files once you are done and go back to stock, and you can warn the servers you are conducting a test so there are no long term implications. wouldn't want to see you banned form servers for proving your point.

why keep going over the same ground. there is about 10 examples in this thread of various confirmed types of cheating. you should put a little effort in yourself to confirm that checksum 2 issue if that is your personal stumbling block, even your own buddies in the dark dungeons confirmed it (and so have others in this same thread).

actually the reason i don't know what is possible to alter for cheating is because i have zero interest in doing that. i don't fly online at all, if i ever did it would be with a fresh clean install, where is the satisfaction to be found from beating someone using cheats?
just read your own little forum and you'll get an idea, when seeing some of the options posted there just ask yourself which ones would be an advantage to use online against others who dont have them. but interesting you now say you dont know if it is possible to cheat, yet for the last 10 pages you have been arguing cheating doesnt exist and isnt possible. those 2 positions are quite different.


the point of the absurd argument is that it can be extended to a ridiculous point, reductio ad absurdum, so where you say having a mirror is a cheat, i can just as easily say that having track ir is a cheat, an advantage that is not enjoyed by everyone. jesus, mirrors are no use when you have f6! you probably have a greater advantage if you use a 30 inch screen.

just read your own statement again, and spot the flaw.

fair enough, blatant cheats like a mk108 armed uber spitfire may be possible with the mod, but i have not seen it, i have not heard of it, and i have seen no evidence that it can be used on a chkruntime=2 server.

you've already stated you dont play online, and you are now saying that because you personally havnt seen it online, it therefore does not exist ?

since you dont seem to get out much, just apply the Principle of Parsimony from those that spend the majority of their time online and want it to remain fair.


you need to read more at the other place, or quote in context. the frankenplanes have the fm of the planes they replace, so that g4 is a cosmetically altered g2, ditto the g10 erla. they replace a slot in the game. as far as i have seen fm dm and wm are the same as the ones they replace. so at a guess, if they were used in a server where some did not have the mods, then they would appear as a g2 and a g10 to those people. also, at a guess, they would be hardly able to tell the difference anyway.

your failing to mention, or havnt realised, that those planes have improved rear visibility compared to the stock standard models, and that the removal of slightly clouded armored glass also improves visibility. also placing the wings of one plane on another will change its flight characteristics, for better or for worse depending how it is applied (ie it is not just wing textures, but wing shapes and surface area's affected)

but my main point of listing those examples is to clearly demonstrate that the franken monster production line has started.

[Lo0n]

dont you get a bit embarrassed giving each other hand jobs in public ?

now this, this is a good one. can't answer the post, stoop to insults. you really are a fool zap. which is funny when you consistently insult others intelligence. i'm sensing a napoleon complex here, you know what that is short stuff?
jason's post is one of the non-hysterical posts, like beowulfs, in this thread. and he hasn't decided to just call you some kind of paranoid schizo for hte hell of it. i'd call that a reasonable post. maybe not one that you agree with but well, that's life.
comparing a game to disease control... that really is stretching the limits of credibility.

[Lo0n]

why keep going over the same ground. there is about 10 examples in this thread of various confirmed types of cheating. you should put a little effort in yourself to confirm that checksum 2 issue if that is your personal stumbling block, even your own buddies in the dark dungeons confirmed it (and so have others in this same thread).
because you have resolutely failed to demostrate the prevalence of online cheating in chkruntime=2 servers. show me then, pm me the link. like i said, i don't go online, and if i did i would want it to be a fair fight, otherwise what satisfaction is there from winning? or is that the aim no matter how hollow it is?[/I]

just read your own little forum and you'll get an idea, when seeing some of the options posted there just ask yourself which ones would be an advantage to use online against others who dont have them. but interesting you now say you dont know if it is possible to cheat, yet for the last 10 pages you have been arguing cheating doesnt exist and isnt possible. those 2 positions are quite different.
i have been asking for evidence, maybe you missed it? not denying that cheating could be going on, but then with the lack of evidence that would be a logical conclusion. the track posted so far is not conclusive. and so you ahve still not posted the evidence as requested. .




just read your own statement again, and spot the flaw.



you've already stated you dont play online, and you are now saying that because you personally havnt seen it online, it therefore does not exist ?it's the evidence that i have not seen, in this thread, the evidence that was promised, that is what has not been seen. is that in simple enough terms for you?.
since you dont seem to get out much, just apply the Principle of Parsimony from those that spend the majority of their time online and want it to remain fair.
[I]i get out plenty, hence the majority of my time not being online. see that logical step there? guess you are the basement dweller if you spend ost of your time online.




your failing to mention, or havnt realised, that those planes have improved rear visibility compared to the stock standard models, and that the removal of slightly clouded armored glass also improves visibility. also placing the wings of one plane on another will change its flight characteristics, for better or for worse depending how it is applied (ie it is not just wing textures, but wing shapes and surface area's affected) not changing flight characteristics when purely making a cosmetic model change, or did you miss that bit? it gives the g-2 fm to the g-4. the fm is not altered. read more. slightly clouded glass... again, read more, did you miss where i said what difference does that make when you have f6 or a huge monitor?

but my main point of listing those examples is to clearly demonstrate that the franken monster production line has started.
was that really your point? are you sure? and you miss out the other bits where it is said that new slots cannot be created so they have to take the fms of other planes. hence g4 replacing g2, g10 erla replacing g10, typhoon replacing (and having same fm as) tempest... and now for your next round of insults... and still no post showing cheating happening. oh no. that would spoil the fun. prove it and you win. continue with this pointless flaming and you lose.

[zapatista]

now this, this is a good one. can't answer the post, stoop to insults.
1) answered the post
2) responding to tag team of hack kiddies gratifying each other as if that adds weight to their arguments, even when what they said is completely nonsensical

comparing a game to disease control... that really is stretching the limits of credibility.

you need to check the big word book again, its not a comparison, its an analogy

analogy
- noun (plural analogies) a comparison between one thing and another made for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
- the process of making such a comparison.
- a thing regarded as analogous to another; an analogue.

failed to understand the analogy perhaps ?

[Lo0n]

well as an analogy it still makes you look like an over reacting, short arsed, tool.

[zapatista]

and you miss out the other mitigating bits where it is said that new slots cannot be created so they have to take the fms of other planes. hence g4 replacing g2, g10 erla replacing g10, typhoion replacing (and having same fm as) tempest..

i get it now, having an 1-16 with the engine of a 190 and the guns of a hurricane doesnt really matter as long as it takes the places of the original rata ?

mm i think there might be a flaw there in your logic ?


and now for your next round of insults..

dont be shy now, if you dish it out be prepared to be treated the same in return. when the lot of you starts to behave in a civilised manner, i think most others here will treat you the same in return.

and still no post showing cheating happening. oh no. that would spoil the fun. what is it with your bunch, do you have a brand new clone typing at the keyboard each time you logon and everything needs to be explained to you again ?

- links demonstrating cheating with the use of the soundmod files have been posted
- specific examples of the type of cheats in use were given, mirrors, gyro's etc..
- demonstrated non authorized planes in full real restricted servers being used
- franken monster plane examples given
- others from your own hack crowd confirmed here and "there" that checksum 2 doesnt work, even if you keep doubting me.

you seem to expect from me that i am going to post links to some of the actual hack files, or spend half a day creating some horror planes myself just because some doubting Thomas on some internet forum cant use google.


...you win....you lose.
err is that why you keep posting here ?

i'll have to disappoint you, its not why i am posting here, everybody has already lost , even if you dont seem to realize it.

[zapatista]

well as an analogy it still makes you look like an over reacting, short arsed, tool.

now go tell your mum you'r being rude to nice people on the internet again !

[jasonbirder]

you must be the runt of the hacker litter, because you consistently make the least sense
Good to see you are able to hold an intelligent and reasonable discussion without resorting to schoolyard insults…but I guess that really sets the tone!
so lets translate the jason-speak,....the point that you are making is that therefore online cheating should be allowed completely unrestricted, even promoted,, just because it doesnt matter to jason ?
Well as indicated, not only does it not matter to me…it doesn’t matter to the vast majority of players…it only matters to a tiny proportion of people that play IL2 – just because its important to you doesn’t mean its important in the great scheme of things…It matters to a fraction of a minority (The Hyper lobby players only being a proportion of onliners…onliners only being a tiny minority amongst IL2 players) that doesn’t mean its not something that isn’t worth discussing…but framing the whole debate about the sound mod in terms of its impact on that minority and discounting the benefits it can realize for everyone else is an extremely blinkered view.

not only is that absurd, but whatever little time oleg had to add the last few fixes to other import bugs in the 4.09 patch, it being the LAST chance to fix things, now wont occur as extensively because they have to plug the hack leak, thanks jason, great idea there !
4.09 was only ever going to be a small add on, including the new maps – I think even the inclusion of the completed new flyables (Avia, Fokker & CW Interceptor) had been discounted because of time pressures…the reason that the last chance to fix things has not occurred is because of the pressure to develop BOB-SOW, NOT because of the sound mod.

the online multiplayer community has also been the most active in providing feedback, making requests, and influencing further developments in il2 since its inception. even if it is a part of total sales, rather than the complete market. and your quote is dated, it will nowadays be at least around 50%, with the increase in net access in the last years
Any evidence for this…or is it just a feeling you have? Giving feedback…making requests…influencing further development…What does that actually mean? Does it mean anything important beyond whining for more powerful .50 calibers’ and asking for an unrealistic delay on trim controls, to prevent online abuse? As I see it, the biggest contributors from a third party point of view are the skinners and campaign writers that develop for the offline market and the creators of third party utilities like DCG, Mission Mate and Mat Manager – again developed for Offline play…
If you genuinely believe that Onliners make up 50% of IL2 users…there are an awful lot of them hiding away…IL2 sold nearly 500,000 units in the West – are there really 250,000 people flying on Hyperlobby on a regular basis?
you'r on a roll now. so because jason cant count on his fingers how important online fair play is on ALL coop and dogfight servers for the community at large, we therefore should be bothered with hacking the files. let me ask my 9 yo if he sees the flaw in that......

I’m not sure I understand?

thank the gods you dont have a job that matters in the real world. you'r basically saying that because influenza does exists and can affect people, that we therefore shouldn't do anything about malaria, cholera, pox, aids, ... etc. dont you see it is irrational aspect of the "logic" you are using ?
Aside from the obvious distaste I have when people compare something as trivial as a game with something as serious as Malaria and Aids – I really don’t understand your comparison…
yes, lets take the argument to the absurd in order to try and make a point. your now saying that because there is not a shower of 1000 meteor's heading for the earth right now, that meteors dont matter. since you seem to live a sheltered life, maybe get out more on some of the better servers (yes, even those not on HL, presuming you can find them), and on voice comm's see what kind of observations the regulars have. most will have seen confirmations of cheating, and there has been a significant rise in reports since the sound hack started being spread into the wild.

I can see you’re really getting into the swing of things now…plagues…meteor storms…we are talking about a game here you know! Talk about Hyperbole…I understand that its important to the proportion of the community that flies online, on Hyperlobby and ASE…but I am making the point that we can’t frame the entire debate in those terms…there is a bigger (much bigger) picture to consider…

your lack of having some rational perspective on all of this is stunning ! you've now said that the existence of a widespread hack, its open promotion and widespread use actually doesnt matter at all, since people should only use servers you like, and that fairness and honesty in the whole online community isnt important. and emm, if people are really silly enough to play with other ww2 aviation enthousiasts from around the world, then really they should have some mother hen overseeing them 24/7 to make sure each user isnt cheating. i have a simpler solution, you go play werever you want with whatever you want, and the rest of us want a simple secure way to play online without cheating.

On the contrary I have an entirely rational perspective…A few onliners are concerned about the Sound Mod, a few onliners aren’t concerned about the sound mod, the sound mod doesn’t affect any offline players…that’s perspective…trying to convince everyone that the game is in its terminal death throes is a lack of proper perspective…
If fairness and honesty was that important to the online community – the sound mod wouldn’t be an issue…as no-one would use it online and you would all be able to trust each other; as it is you are obviously quite happy flying with people who are keen to cheat you, as soon as the tools and the opportunity were made available to them…Small wonder I prefer to fly with friends and family rather than with some anonymous user names from around the globe.

[jasonbirder]

dont you get a bit embarrassed giving each other hand jobs in public

you must be the runt of the hacker litter

tag team of hack kiddies gratifying each other

Zapatista I understand you feel passionately about this subject, but it does not reflect well on your argument or point of view if you need to resort to childish insults and flaming at every opportunity…I am sure you have valid points to make…but lets try and keep things from getting personal, please.

[Rama]

But, if there are 10 000 people who only bought the sim for offline play since orginal IL2 it surly must mean that there are 10 000 offliners active right now...doesnt it?
Absolutly not. I know a lot of casual offline simmers that bought the sim, played a bit, then garbaged it. Number of buyers isn't representative of offliners.
In fact, neither you or me do know the number of actual active offliners.... so please don't pretend they represent 95% of the players... you just don't know.

Same with onliners, all the 700+ online at HL at any given day..is all the same 700+ in the intire world on any given day....surly?
You can have a better way to count. Currently almost 25% to 30% of the players each night play AW (Airforce War). All AW players are registered, go on AW site and count.... you'll get around 1/4 (or less) of the number of online players.... except casual players of course.

And like u said.....onliners are only bagage, a group that has no effect on the game what so ever. Oleg would have been twice as successfull hadnt it been for online whiners.
I did say that?.... I said exactly the contrary... please don't distord my words.
Just ask yourself a question: how many planes, cockpits, maps, skins, tools, missions, campaign, online wars were made by onliners from the begining of the sim up to now?
Whitout this work, The sim would have been far to be as important as it is today. It would probably be unsupported today, and played only by a few nostalgics.... maybe with a small second life with a small modder community like CFS3 for example... but not more.

In any case, the debate is biased. Offliners and "free modders" have all what they want... why would they deny to the onliners some real protection in 4.09 (which is all they can hope) ? Give me any good bloody reason?

[Rama]

As I see it, the biggest contributors from a third party point of view are the skinners and campaign writers that develop for the offline market and the creators of third party utilities like DCG, Mission Mate and Mat Manager – again developed for Offline play…

You just forget the biggest part of the third party contribution: planes, cockpit and maps... (it's funny how everybody forget it easilly). You also forget the online wars, which represent a tremendous work and are player by thousands of players.
Besides... All the skin and mission creators I know are onliners....

Either you don't know about all this (then you don't know much about IL2 world), or you conveniently forget it... just to proove your point.

[Lo0n]

i get it now, having an 1-16 with the engine of a 190 and the guns of a hurricane doesnt really matter as long as it takes the places of the original rata ?

mm i think there might be a flaw there in your logic ?
takes the place the fm dm and wm of the rate. so it will look like a mutant, but behave like a rata. this is where people swap out the fm of one model so you get a do335 that flies like a lerche.



dont be shy now, if you dish it out be prepared to be treated the same in return. when the lot of you starts to behave in a civilised manner, i think most others here will treat you the same in return.
ha fat chance. most others maybe, not you. it started civil, look where it is now.

what is it with your bunch, do you have a brand new clone typing at the keyboard each time you logon and everything needs to be explained to you again ?

- links demonstrating cheating with the use of the soundmod files have been posted
it got removed
- specific examples of the type of cheats in use were given, mirrors, gyro's etc.. and were addressed
- demonstrated non authorized planes in full real restricted servers being used didn't show the entire process, ie a fraps vid as requested
- franken monster plane examples given and? that alters appearance, not fm/dm/wm
- others from your own hack crowd confirmed here and "there" that checksum 2 doesnt work, even if you keep doubting me. i doubt you because i have not seen it, like i said, pm the direct links

you seem to expect from me that i am going to post links to some of the actual hack files, or spend half a day creating some horror planes myself just because some doubting Thomas on some internet forum cant use google.
the onus is on you to prove what you say, i ain't doing the leg work



err is that why you keep posting here ?
only because you do zap, just for you

i'll have to disappoint you, its not why i am posting here, everybody has already lost , even if you dont seem to realize it.
well, there are several thousand who would argue that... and to be quite frank, it is people like yourself who will finish the community off, co-existance is entirely possible, nay, desired by most. however you and your ilk will not let this happen and will instead stir with the insults and accusations when you get righteously owned online.

[Lo0n]

now go tell your mum you'r being rude to nice people on the internet again !

nice? hahaha that's a good one zap. real good. oh my sides.
how old are you exactly? the quality of your insults and the way you behave is reminiscent of an upset infant.

[Bandit Bill]

The phrase "never argue with a fool, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" applies.. rational people, both pro and anti-modders.. lets let it be. We have our differences. Let the idiots waste bandwidth with their petty insults, while the rest of us, play our own favorite flavor of game.

The whiners can continue to do what they do best.. whine.

[zapatista]

well, there are several thousand who would argue that... and to be quite frank, it is people like yourself who will finish the community off, co-existance is entirely possible, nay, desired by most. however you and your ilk will not let this happen and will instead stir with the insults and accusations when you get righteously owned online.

is it ground hog day where you live ? you keep spinning around in circles chasing your own tail

and what with all these RTFM errors with you lot, if you cant be bothered learning the quote system for online forums, dont expect people to to decompile the soup of text you posted and try and find something meaningful in it.

[zapatista]

nice? hahaha that's a good one zap. real good. oh my sides.
how old are you exactly? the quality of your insults and the way you behave is reminiscent of an upset infant.

you'r getting less coherent the more you post,

lol you'r reacting like Inspector Dreyfus in the pink panther movies

drooling a bit, getting a few twitches ?

try and focus on the thread subject, its always posted at the beginning of the thread in the title

[Lo0n]

is it ground hog day where you live ? you keep spinning around in circles chasing your own tail

and what with all these RTFM errors with you lot, if you cant be bothered learning the quote system for online forums, dont expect people to to decompile the soup of text you posted and try and find something meaningful in it.

chasing my tail? where exactly am i chasing my tail by pointing out that you are the kind of reprobate that will finish the community off with insults and accusations of cheating when you get owned by honest fliers online? thats a new point.
and there is no manual here, i use the qoute system as i want to. you are having the same problems as with stalker when he answered your "points" individually, i made it easier for you by putting it in bold you evidently need the help.

[Lo0n]

you'r getting less coherent the more you post,

lol you'r reacting like Inspector Dreyfus in the pink panther movies

drooling a bit, getting a few twitches ?

try and focus on the thread subject, its always posted at the beginning of the thread in the title
really dear? that's interesting. unfortunately, focus on this thread is for evidence of cheating. you have still failed to produce this. i do not lack focus on this. i do lack any evidence on what you proclaim, but not evidence of your personality.

bill, you're of course right. but then the idiots are left to do all the talking when they should be shown the door to let the reasonable people get on with it.

[Baron]

Absolutly not. I know a lot of casual offline simmers that bought the sim, played a bit, then garbaged it. Number of buyers isn't representative of offliners.
In fact, neither you or me do know the number of actual active offliners.... so please don't pretend they represent 95% of the players... you just don't know.


You can have a better way to count. Currently almost 25% to 30% of the players each night play AW (Airforce War). All AW players are registered, go on AW site and count.... you'll get around 1/4 (or less) of the number of online players.... except casual players of course.


I did say that?.... I said exactly the contrary... please don't distord my words.
Just ask yourself a question: how many planes, cockpits, maps, skins, tools, missions, campaign, online wars were made by onliners from the begining of the sim up to now?
Whitout this work, The sim would have been far to be as important as it is today. It would probably be unsupported today, and played only by a few nostalgics.... maybe with a small second life with a small modder community like CFS3 for example... but not more.

In any case, the debate is biased. Offliners and "free modders" have all what they want... why would they deny to the onliners some real protection in 4.09 (which is all they can hope) ? Give me any good bloody reason?


Im sry Rama.

I was beeing sarcastic as i agree with everything u said.


Was just trying to show where thoose promodder arguments fail. Arguments that there are 95% more offliners than onliners, wich btw is pretty outdated figures by now. And the claim that onliners dont play any significant role in the grand sceme of things.

[Bandit Bill]

bill, you're of course right. but then the idiots are left to do all the talking when they should be shown the door to let the reasonable people get on with it.

Unfortunately, the mods of this forum aren't doing what they should do ... modding, and hooking those out for a couple days vacation off the forum, who decide to use insults as the main part of their argument.

If we leave those who care to, to blather on and stew in their verbal diaherrea - alone - , they will be revealed for what they are, and their arguments will be shown to be weak at best.

It's a diminishing audience interested in this whole controversy anyway - those who care, have already picked a side to be on, there are damn few fence-sitters to convince one way or the other left, and what remains in terms of discussion will dwindle to a mutual troll-fest, as it has already.

The damage is done, one way or the other, for better or for worse depending on your view-point.. Pick a side, pick up your flavor of game, and enjoy it, whether 'Vanilla' or 'Heavenly Hash'.

[Baron]

really dear? that's interesting. unfortunately, focus on this thread is for evidence of cheating. you have still failed to produce this. i do not lack focus on this. i do lack any evidence on what you proclaim, but not evidence of your personality.

bill, you're of course right. but then the idiots are left to do all the talking when they should be shown the door to let the reasonable people get on with it.



Does Zapatist have to point out, yet again, where those proofs are located, or can u read back?

Seriously.

[Lo0n]

Unfortunately, the mods of this forum aren't doing what they should do ... modding, and hooking those out for a couple days vacation off the forum, who decide to use insults as the main part of their argument.

If we leave those who care to, to blather on and stew in their verbal diaherrea - alone - , they will be revealed for what they are, and their arguments will be shown to be weak at best.

It's a diminishing audience interested in this whole controversy anyway - those who care, have already picked a side to be on, there are damn few fence-sitters to convince one way or the other left, and what remains in terms of discussion will dwindle to a mutual troll-fest.

The damage is done, one way or the other. Pick a side, pick up your flavor of game, and enjoy it, whether 'Vanilla' or 'Heavenly Hash'.

well... with you up to a point - they are allowing discussion of the matter, futile as that may be, it is still something to be encouraged. maybe that's just me and my wishful thinking, but drawing lines doesn't do a great deal. i guess sides have pretty much been chosen, but it's the amount of venom that will determine whether a reconciliation is ever possible, or will these grudges be taken into BoB.

[Lo0n]

Does Zapatist have to point out, yet again, where those proofs are located, or can u read back?

Seriously.

he hasn't pointed out where they are one single time baron. i am not an imbecile. the only things in his posts are insults. the one track posted has now been removed. try again.

[RaVe]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/809754/31985563-asleep3.jpg

This debate is GETTING.....

BORING.ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!!

But its a great opportunity to Plug a Great server>>



Lets get back to what we love the best .

Want a fun server??

FOR THOSE THAT ACTUALLY DO FLY FULL SWITCH SETTINGS ONLINE...

I run a fun Little server called Guts&Glory in

hyper lobby.
its on the bored as :
Guts_Glory

Bring your skills only....

The server is set to run the Sim the way it was designed to be flown .

We try to minimize file conflicts by ruining the server at these settings.


The server settings are at: CheckRuntime=2

checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.02
checkTimeSpeedInterval=2
checkRuntime=2

[MaxLag]
farMaxLagTime=0.5
nearMaxLagTime=0.5



Now if your Looking to get a group of like minded folks together to fly in a nice full switch server with good pilots,that are at a competitive skill level.
That want to fly the Sim as it was designed to be flown...

Please join us.

The maps are fast paced with balanced plane sets from.

WW I ------> late war running 24/7

Find us in hyper As Guts_Glory.
Get skins at

www.RaVeNSkins.com

[choctaw111]

So where are all the tracks? I only say ONE link to the "Santa Claus" Rapid Share track and that file was already removed by the time I got to it. This thread had a VERY simple premise...to provide tracks of uncontested proof of modding of Il2. I am VERY disappointed in those of you that turned this thread into a flame war. I am also disappointed that only ONE track was provided in this thread. I was eagerly awaiting the viewing pleasure of watching that Stuka laden with 4 MK108s and HVAR's and the Storch dropping parafrags! So where are the tracks? People say that cheating is so prevalent today. I have been away from Il2 for a few months. Let me see it.

[SlipBall]

So where are all the tracks? I only say ONE link to the "Santa Claus" Rapid Share track and that file was already removed by the time I got to it. This thread had a VERY simple premise...to provide tracks of uncontested proof of modding of Il2. I am VERY disappointed in those of you that turned this thread into a flame war. I am also disappointed that only ONE track was provided in this thread. I was eagerly awaiting the viewing pleasure of watching that Stuka laden with 4 MK108s and HVAR's and the Storch dropping parafrags! So where are the tracks? People say that cheating is so prevalent today. I have been away from Il2 for a few months. Let me see it.


So what's your gut feeling on this...do you think that there are any cheater's on-line?

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

So what's your gut feeling on this...do you think that there are any cheater's on-line?

Since it seems we might be having a civil discussion I'll chime in. My gut feeling, yes, there is cheating going on. There was cheating going on before this whole debacle though. Is there MORE cheating since the mods, maybe, but if there is I think it's still a very small amount. It's possible that it may increase but I doubt it. Most people who play this sim are into it for a specific reason, be it flight simulation (as this is one of the best on the pc), or history buffs. Either way most are in it for realism and acuracy, those that are in it mearly to beat the other guy either don't stay in long or are not worth fretting over as they are very sad individuals indeed. I may be a little pie-in-the-sky about my opinions but I think the vast majority of people who play il2 don't want to cheat, heck, most want it HARDER. Those that want to cheat will be rooted out and won't have anyone to play with, they'll go back to thier shooters and cheat there eventually.

To review, yes there is cheating, yes it's possible to make more cheats with the mods, no it is not a plague of cheating, people will not automatically cheat just cause they can, those that want to cheat cheated before and will cheat after.

[zapatista]

and there is no manual here, i use the qoute system as i want to. you are having the same problems as with stalker when he answered your "points" individually, i made it easier for you by putting it in bold
no prize there, return to starting point and try again

if we are going to discuss apples and oranges, it doesnt work if you paint an orange green and start referring to it as an apple from then on. dont panic now if you cant understand that either, that was an analogy again. if you are going to use your own "special posting system" here using your own "special words" (like you seem to have your own private definition of what cheating means to you), then dont expect the rest of the universe to change its accepted conventions to decipher it and understand you. btw, it seems you put about the same lack of effort into trying to communicate here whatever thoughts are floating around in your head.

i have tried to keep this simple for you:

the question: evidence of 'cheating using the soundmod' hack

the answers given in this thread:

- links demonstrating cheating with the use of the new soundmod file hack is indeed possible, and having modified files can not be detected anymore when you join online servers, examples have been posted
- specific examples of the type of cheats that can be used were given, mirrors, gyro's, improved distance visibility etc.. also explained to you that cheats like that can not be seen by other users making a track of what happens in the server at the time.
- demonstrated non authorized planes in full real restricted servers being used, and is completely possible now.
- franken monster plane examples given, including how their use can have several advantages (ie a form of cheating)
- others from your own hack crowd confirmed here and "there" that checksum 2 doesnt work, even if you keep doubting it.

by your own admission you say you dont fly online, and the center of your argument you keep repeating is "i havnt seen it therefore it doesnt exist", cant you see the absurdety of that ?

you seem to expect from me that i am going to post links to some of the actual hack files, or spend half a day creating some horror planes myself just because some doubting Thomas on some internet forum cant use google. there have also been notes from the forum mod not to give specific information here on where and how it is being done. put some effort in yourself if you still cant figure this out with all the information you have been given, you seem to expect us to keep wasting our time to spoon feed you.

[zapatista]

Since it seems we might be having a civil discussion I'll chime in. My gut feeling, yes, there is cheating going on. There was cheating going on before this whole debacle though. Is there MORE cheating since the mods, maybe, but if there is I think it's still a very small amount. It's possible that it may increase but I doubt it. Most people who play this sim are into it for a specific reason, be it flight simulation (as this is one of the best on the pc), or history buffs. Either way most are in it for realism and acuracy, those that are in it mearly to beat the other guy either don't stay in long or are not worth fretting over as they are very sad individuals indeed. I may be a little pie-in-the-sky about my opinions but I think the vast majority of people who play il2 don't want to cheat, heck, most want it HARDER. Those that want to cheat will be rooted out and won't have anyone to play with, they'll go back to thier shooters and cheat there eventually.

To review, yes there is cheating, yes it's possible to make more cheats with the mods, no it is not a plague of cheating, people will not automatically cheat just cause they can, those that want to cheat cheated before and will cheat after.

i dont have a problem with anything you said there, the main issue is that it has created 2 opinions in the il2 community

group 1: doesnt want to do anything about the problem, many are even here loudly claiming this doesnt create any problems whatsoever, and if it affects other users negatively they dont care. all they want to do is keep tinkering with it like a mechano set.
group 2: wants to close pandora's box again so that the problem doesnt get worse over time, as is already the case now where week by week more aspects of the game are altered. this groups prime concern is that they want to have the same unaltered files/features used by all people that fly online, when they join open servers with other il2 users on it from all around the world.

[Lo0n]

no prize there, return to starting point and try again

if we are going to discuss apples and oranges, it doesnt work if you paint an orange green and start referring to it as an apple from then on. dont panic now if you cant understand that either, that was an analogy again. if you are going to use your own "special posting system" here using your own "special words" (like you seem to have your own private definition of what cheating means to you), then dont expect the rest of the universe to change its accepted conventions to decipher it and understand you. btw, it seems you put about the same lack of effort into trying to communicate here whatever thoughts are floating around in your head.

i have tried to keep this simple for you:

the question: evidence of 'cheating using the soundmod' hack

the answers given in this thread:

- links demonstrating cheating with the use of the new soundmod file hack is indeed possible, and having modified files can not be detected anymore when you join online servers, examples have been posted
- specific examples of the type of cheats that can be used were given, mirrors, gyro's, improved distance visibility etc.. also explained to you that cheats like that can not be seen by other users making a track of what happens in the server at the time.
- demonstrated non authorized planes in full real restricted servers being used, and is completely possible now.
- franken monster plane examples given, including how their use can have several advantages (ie a form of cheating)
- others from your own hack crowd confirmed here and "there" that checksum 2 doesnt work, even if you keep doubting it.

by your own admission you say you dont fly online, and the center of your argument you keep repeating is "i havnt seen it therefore it doesnt exist", cant you see the absurdety of that ?

you seem to expect from me that i am going to post links to some of the actual hack files, or spend half a day creating some horror planes myself just because some doubting Thomas on some internet forum cant use google. there have also been notes from the forum mod not to give specific information here on where and how it is being done. put some effort in yourself if you still cant figure this out with all the information you have been given, you seem to expect us to keep wasting our time to spoon feed you.

zap, give up with this trying to call me an idiot line. it got old pages ago.
theone link is dead, and was apparently a cheat not related to the soundhack, miss that bit being repeated? the cheats you mention, such as mirrors, are more an advantage than a cheat - an advantage like having track ir, or a huge monitor or equipment that varies between users. cheats are fm/dm/wm changes - things like having mk108's on a p11.c. the frankenplanes, well if you think having something like a different cowling on a 109 is a cheat then fine. as i've said it doesn't change fm/dm/wm, but you ignore this every time. you may a point with the removed headrest, but when you start going on about clearer perspex textures that's clutching at straws. whilst i don't fly online i do look around forums and such for people saying "w00t i got a supersonic gladiator". apparently cheating, from what i read, is possible (and has been for oh so long), but it requires more talent than the average user. i have repeatedly asked for pm's because i know the trouble that would follow from posting it in forums. you missed the point of this thread from the start. evidence. anyway, this thread had taken a turn for the better til you returned.
the only time that has been wasted is all the time you chose to try and turn this into a flamefest instead of a proper discussion.
good day to you, and may your turkey be burnt and dry.

[zapatista]

zap, give up with this trying to call me an idiot line. it got old pages ago.
your words, but if the hat fits, you know.... 20 pages of this and its been explained to you about 20 times, not sure what you'd call that.

theone link is dead, and was apparently a cheat not related to the soundhack, miss that bit being repeated?
you mean you are so busy typing rude posts to people and not actually reading the posts in this thread ? the poster gave it as an example of using the soundmod online recently, you think he was a plant in ninja clothing dropped in by a black UN helicopter in the deep of night ? i'd say its a bit odd you didnt download it with all the arguing about the issue you are doing here in the last week, and now your asking me to help you and repost it again ? and if you are such a smartypants didnt you even notice there is still screenshots posted in this thread from that same track by another users ?

the cheats you mention, such as mirrors, are more an advantage than a cheat -
there you go again with your green oranges trying to pretend they are apples. you can call them whatever you will, for the rest of us adding features that aid flying in online servers without other users having access to them, or knowing about it, is cheating !

an advantage like having track ir, or a huge monitor or equipment that varies between users.
i find it odd you cant figure these simple things out by yourself. anybody can go out and get a bigger pc, larger monitor, track it etc, the sim is designed to use them and anybody can. in fact it isnt even that "the bigger the better", a user with a 20' crt set at 1024x768 is much better at spotting distant aircraft dots then a 30' lcd user with his screen at native res.

cheats are fm/dm/wm changes - things like having mk108's on a p11.c. the frankenplanes, well if you think having something like a different cowling on a 109 is a cheat then fine. as i've said it doesn't change fm/dm/wm, but you ignore this every time.
bollocks ! the illustration of the franken planes i gave to show the cutting and pasting of plane structures was well in progress which you were denying. and even for the apparently very innocent ones i posted there was already IMPROVED FEATURES (like cockpit visibility and more transparent glass), this therefore constitutes a form of cheating if used online. i also posted a clip from your little zoo friend indicating they seem to believe that type of bastardizing is entirely normal and will continue.

whilst i don't fly online i do look around forums and such for people saying "w00t i got a supersonic gladiator". apparently cheating, from what i read, is possible (and has been for oh so long), but it requires more talent than the average user.

your convoluted sense of logic is flabbergasting, your now confessing you've known all along cheating is indeed possible, both in the past as well as right now ? why you keep wasting everybody's time here denying it then ?

i have repeatedly asked for pm's because i know the trouble that would follow from posting it in forums. you missed the point of this thread from the start.
no i didnt miss the point, but somehow you seem to think you'r going to be rude to people and then they are going to run around and help you just because you dont understand something, or cant find something. is that how it works in your household ? you'r going to have a bit of a rude awakening when you get out of your sheltered life you been leading.

anyway, this thread had taken a turn for the better til you returned.
the only time that has been wasted is all the time you chose to try and turn this into a flamefest instead of a proper discussion.
poor loon, is it inconvenient for you there is other forum users whom have a different opinion to your own ? dont babble so much nonsense here and they'll probably leave you alone. just stick to the community back stabbing and childish talk in your own little forum.

[Bandit Bill]

your words, but if the hat fits, you know.... 20 pages of this and its been explained to you about 20 times, not sure what you'd call that.

...

poor loon, is it inconvenient for you there is other forum users whom have a different opinion to your own ? dont babble so much nonsense here and they'll probably leave you alone. just stick to the community back stabbing and childish talk in your own little forum.

Beating, horse, dead.

Zapatista, how about you take up a more noble cause with all the time that you are spending frothing at the mouth here? Like feeding the worlds hungry or something?

The 'children' at the other thread have decided that convincing Oleg would be an easier task than convincing you and your rabid cronies, so hopefully you will be wailing and knashing your teeth together to no one else but yourself very soon.. it's time for you to refocus on something you can control.

No matter the amount of self-indignant righteousness you display here, the genie is out of the bottle, and he ain't being stuffed back in. Get over it.

[Lo0n]

your words, but if the hat fits, you know.... 20 pages of this and its been explained to you about 20 times, not sure what you'd call that.
not my words you simpleton, that is what you try to keep on saying, in your inelegant, frothy manner. there has been 20 pages of "please post evidence", and no evidence posted. just reference to the ONE track that was posted, and that was removed before i dl'd it, and the screenshots... well that showed feck all as far as i was concerned. coulda been a ckruntime=1 server for all it showed. and also, that particular "use a plane not on the planeset" cheat is the result of something other than the sound mod. as pointed out in THIS very thread. so yeah, try again zap.


you mean you are so busy typing rude posts to people and not actually reading the posts in this thread ? the poster gave it as an example of using the soundmod online recently, you think he was a plant in ninja clothing dropped in by a black UN helicopter in the deep of night ? i'd say its a bit odd you didnt download it with all the arguing about the issue you are doing here in the last week, and now your asking me to help you and repost it again ? and if you are such a smartypants didnt you even notice there is still screenshots posted in this thread from that same track by another users ?
well zap, considering the tone of your posts i'd say i've been rather restrained. and it is rich to see you saying "ignore posts" - for the love of god man, POST SOME EVIDENCE. i'd say it was odd that it was removed so quickly. and again, as posted by ooo a couple people now, that was a cheat entirely seperate from the soundmod.


there you go again with your green oranges trying to pretend they are apples. you can call them whatever you will, for the rest of us adding features that aid flying in online servers without other users having access to them, or knowing about it, is cheating !
and my point being that they are an added feature, as equally available to all equipment, like track IR. actually... no, more freely available - i don't have the money to spend on track IR.

i find it odd you cant figure these simple things out by yourself. anybody can go out and get a bigger pc, larger monitor, track it etc, the sim is designed to use them and anybody can. in fact it isnt even that "the bigger the better", a user with a 20' crt set at 1024x768 is much better at spotting distant aircraft dots then a 30' lcd user with his screen at native res.
it may be designed to use it, but not everyone has them. only those that can afford it, which is not everyone. see above.


bollocks ! the illustration of the franken planes i gave to show the cutting and pasting of plane structures was well in progress which you were denying. and even for the apparently very innocent ones i posted there was already IMPROVED FEATURES (like cockpit visibility and more transparent glass), this therefore constitutes a form of cheating if used online. i also posted a clip from your little zoo friend indicating they seem to believe that type of bastardizing is entirely normal and will continue.
ah starting to lose it there?
where exactly did i deny the frankenplanes? i have not denied them, i have merely pointed out that they use existing FM's of planes they replace. and again, more transparent glass? lame. how much difference does that actually make. the frankenplanes give cosmetic changes to existing types. it's not altered fm, dm wm, so for the G4... it is a G2 in all but appearance.


your convoluted sense of logic is flabbergasting, your now confessing you've known all along cheating is indeed possible, both in the past as well as right now ? why you keep wasting everybody's time here denying it then ?
well deary, not my fault if you can't grasp the concept of reading a few places to see what is being said. hell if people read just this thread... online would die in a day. cheating, from what i have read in the past few days when reasonable people join the thread, or in other places, has apparently existed in various forms for years. these were nothing to do with the sound mod were they, did it exist then? no. that is the point, prove the cheating that is caused by the soundmod. you SO missed the point.

no i didnt miss the point, but somehow you seem to think you'r going to be rude to people and then they are going to run around and help you just because you dont understand something, or cant find something. is that how it works in your household ? you'r going to have a bit of a rude awakening when you get out of your sheltered life you been leading.
yeah you did, you decided to turn this into a flame, try and get it locked, and then it allows you to continue with your hysterical EVERYBODY'S CHEATING flap. i have not seen it myself, i have asked people who might have, i have said please, i have received vitriol in return. if this is how it works in your house perhaps someone should call social services and have your son put with some more stable people.


poor loon, is it inconvenient for you there is other forum users whom have a different opinion to your own ? dont babble so much nonsense here and they'll probably leave you alone. just stick to the community back stabbing and childish talk in your own little forum.

no it is inconvenient that despite all of this, nothing has come of it other than a 21 page bitchfest. i like different opinions, the world would be dreadfully stagnant and boring without them. the fact that you react in such a way does not give the impression that you value others opinions any more than a starving man values a lump of coal. the childishness is entirely your own, and you are attempting to project it onto anyone that disagrees with you. continue your rant, why not get sweary and stamp your little feet and shake your little fists some more. go on, it does make for cheap amusement.

[Baron]

So, a short summery:


Promodders still wont get the arguments made/know how to define cheating/find evidance of cheating, even if it was all loaded up on a semitruck and ran over them.


But they do find the time to learn how to illigaly hack and destroy a good game.


Its wonderfull world.

[fly_zo]

So, a short summery:


Promodders still wont get the arguments made/know how to define cheating/find evidance of cheating, even if it was all loaded up on a semitruck and ran over them.


But they do find the time to learn how to illigaly hack and destroy a good game.


Its wonderfull world.


it just stroked me .... you are just jealous .... you'd like to know how its done ?

BTW did you apologize to Uther yet?

[Baron]

it just stroked me .... you are just jealous .... you'd like to know how its done ?

BTW did you apologize to Uther yet?


Come on now Zo, lets keep this Battle of the witts to one threadh.....run back to "Sound Mod" and state an oppinion, any oppinion would do at this point.


Thx.

[msalama]

U guys still want to wake me up when the carousel has stopped?

[zapatista]

no it is inconvenient that despite all of this, nothing has come of it other than a 21 page bitchfest. i like different opinions, the world would be dreadfully stagnant and boring without them. the fact that you react in such a way does not give the impression that you value others opinions any more than a starving man values a lump of coal. the childishness is entirely your own, and you are attempting to project it onto anyone that disagrees with you. continue your rant, why not get sweary and stamp your little feet and shake your little fists some more. go on, it does make for cheap amusement.

ground hog day again for inspector Dreyfus ?

twitching a little, drooling a little ? LoL

[ABC123]

I looked to see if any one used this to show how some of the mods are a problem. One is swapping fm/dm of fighters..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2BiRAPqY8&mode=related&search=


Here is has swapped the Lerche with a do###

If some one has posted this.... sorry for the repeat.

But this is what makes me sick.. Now I have to wonder did I just lose due to my error or a spit 25lb in spit vc cloths.:confused::shock::cry:

[SlipBall]

Yep, anything is possible now, nothing would surprise me anymore.....but I think that there are not many out there doing this type of thing....still enough to ruin the game though

[zapatista]

from another thread in this same forum, where some people are asking to have modifiable sound files and "lock the rest", one person who obviously *knows* enough about what has been altered confirms exactly what is being argued about in this thread



I’ve spent too many hours contributing to programs to deter online cheating and will not make this into a “How To” for the dishonest individuals out there.

1C has been sent a list of methods on how to use a sound mod to cheat and affect other online gamers.

**If anyone listed them here I would hope a moderator would delete them immediately.**

For a copy of the list sent to 1C try the following.

Post the topic/question directly to Oleg or 1C titled…
“Oleg please publish a tutorial in your forum called -
“Modding for Morons - How to exploit sound mods that pass CRT=2 so that I may ruin the online gaming experience of others.”

(I sure some of you could come up with a better title.)

1C has the list I sent them. CrazyIvan has also been given an overview.
I will let them decide if they would like to share it.

of course he could have been dropped in by black UN helicopter overnight !

[Baron]

Dont know if anyone else have seen it, but yesterday i saw AAA with theire very own server at HL.

[SlipBall]

I don't ever see many, any, on there when I take a look,...

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

from another thread in this same forum, where some people are asking to have modifiable sound files and "lock the rest", one person who obviously *knows* enough about what has been altered confirms exactly what is being argued about in this thread



of course he could have been dropped in by black UN helicopter overnight !

We all know what is "possible" with these mods, what we want cleared up is whether or not what is "possible" is being done as much as others claim. Anyone who denies that cheating is possible is as much to be ignored as the ones who say cheating is rampant. Mod users are not cheaters, cheaters are cheaters. there were cheaters before the mod, I'm sure there are those out there cheating right now that haven't used the mods. One is not a creator of the other. Those who knew how to cheat before the mod didn't neccessarily cheat either, just because knowing how to mod means it's possible to cheat doesn't mean one does.

[Bandit Bill]

We all know what is "possible" with these mods, what we want cleared up is whether or not what is "possible" is being done as much as others claim. Anyone who denies that cheating is possible is as much to be ignored as the ones who say cheating is rampant. Mod users are not cheaters, cheaters are cheaters. there were cheaters before the mod, I'm sure there are those out there cheating right now that haven't used the mods. One is not a creator of the other. Those who knew how to cheat before the mod didn't neccessarily cheat either, just because knowing how to mod means it's possible to cheat doesn't mean one does.

Oh come on, Urufu_Shinjiru, you are using the wrong logic for this topic.. It should be:

But.. But... She's a (modder) Witch! BURN Her!

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/grail/large/HolyGrail026.jpg

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Sorry, I will refrain from using logic and reason from now on, or in other word "I got better..." :)

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Ofcoarse, my appologies. I will be bringing you a shrubbery and a herring immidiatly. ;)

[Lo0n]

ground hog day again for inspector Dreyfus ?

twitching a little, drooling a little ? LoL

have you given up trying to talk sense now zap? well, i suppose it's better that you stop than continue making yourself look foolish.

the witch analogy, well ok, i take your point it could be a bit tasteless, but it does really get the hysterical "everyone is a cheater" note spot on. maybe mccarthyism would be a better one, and it's all "reds under the bed"?
anyway, have a good christmas folks

[Bandit Bill]

Man is that witch burning analogy lame.....and misplaced.

As a matter of fact I find it unscrupulous that an historical event about innocent people being persecuted and killed would be used to draw a comparison with hack users.....(who admittedly use hacks).

(Yeah, I'm aware you're using Monty Python as a joke.... ;) )

Have a great holiday everyone. Hope everyones New Year finds all the good things in life. Peace.

Puleeeaase.. enough with the PC crap and accusations of misrepresenting the plight of innocent crispy critter-witches some 500 odd years ago and offending your delicate sensibilities in the process, in relation to the Evil Empire modders.

The analogy is about as applicable as it can be. Monty Python, and this thread, are at equal planes of absurdity and parody as far as a 'serious discussion' can get, in reference to the real world.

[Santa Claus]

Ho Ho Ho

Just to clarify some mis-information and incorrect statements and assumptions. I've received a lot of Dear Santa PM in the past week, so instead replying to them all, this should cover it. (I'm a little busy right now)

The ntrks that were posted by me earlier...
Were made in Dec 2007 in version 4.08m (Not a previous version and not 409)
They were not made by some trick of the conf.ini file or any other ntrk trick.
There may be ways to do something similar in some other way. This was done simply by using the Sound Hack and downloads available at the much argued about website. No extractor or special java knowledge or tools....just the files offered from the site and no outside link.
The Lerche was NOT a choice in the servers. The violent reaction of the players in chat as they described there feelings about cheating with mods is why several of the ntrks were not posted for all.

Several asked why the Lerche didn't fly in the CTR=2 rooms or why they never saw it...It did. You needed to override the ntrk view control and cycle through the many players in the room. Instead of teaching those who have difficulty in figuring this out, I am simply re-posting a short version of the track filmed in WOE from another angle so that you can simply see it.

About a dozen similar tracks where made on the same day in servers including.
Spits vs 109s
Skies~of~Warping
UK Dedicated
Zeke vs Wilcats
WingOverEurope
and more, several of which are CRT=1 and CRT=2 and the Lerche was not a choice.

Since the original tracks were posted, several have asked for me to prove it by meeting them on their servers... Which I've done.

For those that didn't see the original ntrks, plenty of people have them and are welcome to re-post them.

Some of the naughty PMs assumed that I am against mods.
I am not against mods as long as the mods are created in a legal manor and/or the developer has given consent. There must also be a working option for the host/server to block the mods (and mutants of them) from online servers IF they are not welcome.. (LOL new technical term... mutant mods)

This ntrk simply shows that online players are not guaranteed a level playing field in 4.08m because the checkruntime is easily beat. The ntrk shows a Sound Hack Lerche take off in an online server (WOE) where the Lerche was not a choice and was not welcome. Again..this can be done in any crt=2 room. A Lerche was used to make it obvious. Using the sound hack any FM, DM or many other types of cheats could be used.

Ho Ho Ho - Still hope the Elves are working on 409 and its near release.

http://rapidshare.com/files/78861110/Sound_Hack_Lerche_ext_WOE.zip.html

[GF_Mastiff]

I thought this appropriate? yes no?


http://youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

[zapatista]

have you given up trying to talk sense now zap? well, i suppose it's better that you stop than continue making yourself look foolish.

are you paying attention now loon ?

focus 1 2 3......



Ho Ho Ho

Just to clarify some mis-information and incorrect statements and assumptions. I've received a lot of Dear Santa PM in the past week, so instead replying to them all, this should cover it. (I'm a little busy right now)

The ntrks that were posted by me earlier...
Were made in Dec 2007 in version 4.08m (Not a previous version and not 409)
They were not made by some trick of the conf.ini file or any other ntrk trick.
There may be ways to do something similar in some other way. This was done simply by using the Sound Hack and downloads available at the much argued about website. No extractor or special java knowledge or tools....just the files offered from the site and no outside link.
The Lerche was NOT a choice in the servers. The violent reaction of the players in chat as they described there feelings about cheating with mods is why several of the ntrks were not posted for all.

Several asked why the Lerche didn't fly in the CTR=2 rooms or why they never saw it...It did. You needed to override the ntrk view control and cycle through the many players in the room. Instead of teaching those who have difficulty in figuring this out, I am simply re-posting a short version of the track filmed in WOE from another angle so that you can simply see it.

About a dozen similar tracks where made on the same day in servers including.
Spits vs 109s
Skies~of~Warping
UK Dedicated
Zeke vs Wilcats
WingOverEurope
and more, several of which are CRT=1 and CRT=2 and the Lerche was not a choice.

Since the original tracks were posted, several have asked for me to prove it by meeting them on their servers... Which I've done.

For those that didn't see the original ntrks, plenty of people have them and are welcome to re-post them.

Some of the naughty PMs assumed that I am against mods.
I am not against mods as long as the mods are created in a legal manor and/or the developer has given consent. There must also be a working option for the host/server to block the mods (and mutants of them) from online servers IF they are not welcome.. (LOL new technical term... mutant mods)

This ntrk simply shows that online players are not guaranteed a level playing field in 4.08m because the checkruntime is easily beat. The ntrk shows a Sound Hack Lerche take off in an online server (WOE) where the Lerche was not a choice and was not welcome. Again..this can be done in any crt=2 room. A Lerche was used to make it obvious. Using the sound hack any FM, DM or many other types of cheats could be used.

Ho Ho Ho - Still hope the Elves are working on 409 and its near release.

http://rapidshare.com/files/78861110...t_WOE.zip.html

did you spot the really hard to understand part there ? checksum 2 or 1 didnt block what he did

yes, using unauthorized planes in servers that limit plane sets is cheating, even if in your lala land you are going to give it a different name. emm how about using a less obvious plane like the 25lpd spit in a server that has only 1942 or 1943 spits ? make sure you set blabber mode to at least 3 to try and talk your way around that. same with adding mirrors, gyro's, removing cockpit visibility limitations etc.

ahh and now that yet again another person has shown that checksum 2 limitations does diddly squat for most people that want to get around it, make sure you instantly forget it was ever posted and just keep sprouting your nonsense, since wherever you come from you seem to believe that increasing the quantity of nonsenseincrease its relevance.
you say somehow like magic it will

and fear not tomorrow when you wake up your world will be exactly the same again, as if santa's post never happened, and you never read it.

[zapatista]

We all know what is "possible" with these mods, what we want cleared up is whether or not what is "possible" is being done as much as others claim.

sure, that sounds like a great idea, but it wasnt the purpose of this specific thread. in the initial soundmod thread a small number of people kept insisting cheating with the soundmod hack was completely impossible because checksum 2 prevented its use, so as a collective act of genius one of them started this thread.

since then multiple examples have been given of what type of cheats currently exist, and that many of them cant be detected by other people making tracks. several people in these same threads (and the AAA forum) then confirmed that checksum 2 doesnt work anymore.


Anyone who denies that cheating is possible is as much to be ignored as the ones who say cheating is rampant.
it being rampant doesnt really matter, the fact that it is happening is a concern for most of the online il2 users. and what is beyond doubt is that the problem is much more of an issue then before the soundmod was first released. the genie cant be put back into the bottle either, unless a new anti hack lock is implemented in 4.09, which takes time and resources.

[JG52Uther]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro View Post
We all know what is "possible" with these mods, what we want cleared up is whether or not what is "possible" is being done as much as others claim.
sure, that sounds like a great idea, but it wasnt the purpose of this specific thread.

Yes it was.We all know that cheating is possible with il2.I started this thread for the people who said they had proof of cheating online to post their proof.So far Santa Claus (?) has posted tracks of himself going into servers and proving that it is possible to cheat if you want to.We all know this,that it is possible to cheat.I really just wanted to see the tracks that everyone had made showing all this cheating going on online.

[Arrow]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro View Post
We all know what is "possible" with these mods, what we want cleared up is whether or not what is "possible" is being done as much as others claim.
sure, that sounds like a great idea, but it wasnt the purpose of this specific thread.

Yes it was.We all know that cheating is possible with il2.I started this thread for the people who said they had proof of cheating online to post their proof.So far Santa Claus (?) has posted tracks of himself going into servers and proving that it is possible to cheat if you want to.We all know this,that it is possible to cheat.I really just wanted to see the tracks that everyone had made showing all this cheating going on online.

With all respect Uther, but how can you see in a track that someone is using for example blank cockpit in his plane? Or cockpit with good visibility as Yak-3 substituded in FW-190? Or lead computing gunsight in La-5? Or someone has changed default skins so all enemy planes are pink? I think that no track will show this and such suspicions can have very bad effect...

[JG52Uther]

Arrow, I don't know how you can see these things. The original idea for this thread was for people to post their proof of cheating that they said they had.
Really, we all know that cheating goes on in this game,as in others.It has been going on for years,in one form or another.Thats not news.All we can hope for is for 4.09 to close this particular issue.

[Jagdwaffe]

Well I can't see what the hoo-haa is about. IL2 is getting four engine bombers and other planes that IMHO should have been in the sim long ago. The sound mod gave Allied planes a decent sound at last and some Axis planes as well. The ppl over at allaircraftarcade.com are not touching f/ms or d/ms. The idea is to enhance the sim not wreck it. There have been cheats in IL2 for years and there will be now and in the future but they are such a small number so who cares. The great majority of ppl downloading the mods are enjoying flying "new" planes and hearing "new" sounds - paranoia is getting the better of some ppl.....if you get shot down it is most likely because you made a mistake and not that the shooter is hacking.

[robtek]

@jagdwaffe
most of us believe that the people at aaa have good intentions.
The bad thing is that those intentions make the abuse also possible.
That ist the fear around here. You can´t be shure anymore.

[BSS_Sniper]

Well I can't see what the hoo-haa is about. IL2 is getting four engine bombers and other planes that IMHO should have been in the sim long ago. The sound mod gave Allied planes a decent sound at last and some Axis planes as well. The ppl over at allaircraftarcade.com are not touching f/ms or d/ms. The idea is to enhance the sim not wreck it. There have been cheats in IL2 for years and there will be now and in the future but they are such a small number so who cares. The great majority of ppl downloading the mods are enjoying flying "new" planes and hearing "new" sounds - paranoia is getting the better of some ppl.....if you get shot down it is most likely because you made a mistake and not that the shooter is hacking.

Then you have people changing WM which isn't any better.

[LEXX]

robtek:: @jagdwaffe
most of us believe that the people at aaa have good intentions.
The bad thing is that those intentions make the abuse also possible.
That ist the fear around here. You can´t be shure anymore.
If we are concerned about cheating in the anonymous public servers, we should concern ourselves with those who are doing any cheating.

[RAF_Magpie]

Then you have people changing WM which isn't any better.

No there isnt... there is absolutly NO touching of FM/DM or WM's. At AAA - its strictly forbidden! I suggest you look into these things before you make wild accusations.

[zapatista]

No there isnt... there is absolutly NO touching of FM/DM or WM's. At AAA - its strictly forbidden! I suggest you look into these things before you make wild accusations.
except of course that they openly provide the tools and method to access it, and it can then be done by any 12yo who is able to cut and paste in notepad.

whatever AAA's good intention, they are part of the problem.

[Jagdwaffe]

Well what are you paranoid ppl going to do? Accept things the way they are? Quit flying IL2 online? Conduct a witch hunt to find the cheats? You should do something instead of making accusations and getting ppl arguing with each other. Be constructive.

[zapatista]

The original idea for this thread was for people to post their proof of cheating that they said they had.
Really, we all know that cheating goes on in this game,as in others.It has been going on for years,in one form or another. Thats not news..

you'r being a bit revisionist there and are failing to mention the main issue, which was that this thread was started because 3 or 4 of the pro hack kiddies kept insisting for 30 pages that online cheating with the soundmod hack was not possible, and that checksum 2 still prevents it.

all that nonsense was then used to claim that the hack kiddies were really a bunch of super cool uber programmers that were going to create a fantastic new version of il2 and everybody should be grateful for the tinkering.


so this thread was started stating:

- Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:-
To prove cheating using the soundmod and shut the hackers up once and for all post your links to your 'proof of cheating using the soundmod'


as it turned out:
- many new forms of cheating can now happen since the soundmod hack was released, and most of this cant really easily be detected by other users making tracks (removing cockpits, replacing cockpits, adding bright fluro skins to enemy planes..)
- links to specific mods were given showing exactly that you can now add mirrors, remove cockpit parts that block visibility, add gun gyro's ....
- its been shown you can create your own franken monster plane by cutting and pasting bits and pieces from various planes
- checksum 2 doesnt work if you use the "right" version of of the soundmod hack
- you can use any plane you like in full real servers, even if it isnt on the list
etc... etc...

i'd say that proves pretty conclusively that "cheating using the soundmod hack" is indeed happening, and that cheating is much more of a problem then it was before.

[RAF_Magpie]

...
- many new forms of cheating can now happen since the soundmod hack was released, and most of this cant really easily be detected by other users making tracks (removing cockpits, replacing cockpits, adding bright fluro skins to enemy planes..)
- links to specific mods were given showing exactly that you can now add mirrors, remove cockpit parts that block visibility, add gun gyro's ....
- its been shown you can create your own franken monster plane by cutting and pasting bits and pieces from various planes
- checksum 2 doesnt work if you use the "right" version of of the soundmod hack
- you can use any plane you like in full real servers, even if it isnt on the list
etc... etc...

i'd say that proves pretty conclusively that "cheating using the soundmod hack" is indeed happening, and that cheating is much more of a problem then it was before.

Mr Zapatista, Im afraid you're incorrect in a couple of aspects here... First off, yes parts of the cockpit CAN be removed, but they arent being removed (at least @ the AAA forums). "Frankenstein" aircraft, are not a cheat, infact its no different than wearing your own skin on your own aircraft. All it does is change the look. Every 'frankenstein' aircraft, is built on an aircraft featuring a simular FM/WL/DM to the 'frankenplane' in concept - and there is NO alteration to any of the 'big three' no no's. This means that all that is different, is that the person flying the franken plane see's his tempest, as a tyhoon. Thus there is absolutly NO way that can be constituted a cheat.
Secondly, the 'using anyplane in any server' is something which is not a feature of the 'soundmod hack'. If it is infact being done, it is an additional mod, more than likely one that even out dates the more recent 'sound mod'.

I personally, however, am in agreement with you in regards to the possibility that the gyro sight and mirror additions, are perhaps rather unfair. AND the only thing I can think of that even vaguely justifies the use of these mods is that, yes, they are historically correct additions.

As for the changing of default skins, I believe that it was actually possible to do before the release of the sound mod - i remember seeing something around 6 odd months ago about it.

Now, perhaps instead of just pointing fingers, guys, how about we look into a way that we could, as a community, cap, or even direct, what happens from here...

[LEXX]

Zapatista:: [I not i -- ed. LEXX ] i'd say that proves pretty conclusively that "cheating using the soundmod hack" is indeed happening, and that cheating is much more of a problem then it was before.
Sounds like a social behavioral problem on anonymous public servers that most of Oleg's customers don't face -- why do we choose to fly with people who would cheat us? That's why I said earlier that this thread serves no purpose. Proof of hack cheating on anonymous public servers would only demonstrate a social behavioral problem with some online play cheaters.

[robtek]

@lexx
as a few posts before was mentioned: where do the people with the "social behavioral problem" get the tools to do their misdeeds?

@all

again as mentioned before: The reason for this Thread was to get proof that cheating with the sound-hack on checksum 2 "protected" Servers was possible.

That was done!!!

Thread closed??

[LEXX]

robtek:: @lexx
as a few posts before was mentioned: where do the people with the "social behavioral problem" get the tools to do their misdeeds?
Correct. The tool is not the misdeed.

[LEXX]

This may be (?) a better explanation: The hacking itself can be seen as a misdeed if Oleg personally dis-likes it, which I assume. Using the hack/mod tools to cheat in anonymous public servers is a different misdeed which is not related to using the tools for non-cheating purposes.

The mod/hack tool can have no negative effect on any type of gameplay. Only the online players in anonymous public servers can cheat in anonymous public servers and so negatively effect only anonymous public server gameplay.

[zapatista]

Mr Zapatista, Im afraid you're incorrect in a couple of aspects here... First off, yes parts of the cockpit CAN be removed, but they arent being removed (at least @ the AAA forums). "Frankenstein" aircraft, are not a cheat, infact its no different than wearing your own skin on your own aircraft. All it does is change the look. Every 'frankenstein' aircraft, is built on an aircraft featuring a simular FM/WL/DM to the 'frankenplane' in concept - and there is NO alteration to any of the 'big three' no no's. This means that all that is different, is that the person flying the franken plane see's his tempest, as a tyhoon. Thus there is absolutly NO way that can be constituted a cheat.

except that if you'd actually read the whole thread you'd already know that is not the case.

the few examples i already posted of some of the franken planes had improved visibility from the cockpit, so yes, even using those constitute cheating.

Secondly, the 'using anyplane in any server' is something which is not a feature of the 'soundmod hack'. If it is infact being done, it is an additional mod, more than likely one that even out dates the more recent 'sound mod'.

not correct either, but you can try and play with words if you want to spin it in one direction or the other. i'd say the way santa clause worded it avoids most confusion...

This was done simply by using the Sound Hack and downloads available at the much argued about website. No extractor or special java knowledge or tools....just the files offered from the site and no outside link.
The Lerche was NOT a choice in the servers. The violent reaction of the players in chat as they described there feelings about cheating with mods is why several of the ntrks were not posted for all.

I personally, however, am in agreement with you in regards to the possibility that the gyro sight and mirror additions, are perhaps rather unfair. AND the only thing I can think of that even vaguely justifies the use of these mods is that, yes, they are historically correct additions.

it doesnt matter if its historical or not, what matters is that people adding bits and pieces as they see fit, and it cant be detected online, nor can it be prevented.


As for the changing of default skins, I believe that it was actually possible to do before the release of the sound mod - i remember seeing something around 6 odd months ago about it.

its now a lot easier, and every dog and cat knows where to get the files

Now, perhaps instead of just pointing fingers, guys, how about we look into a way that we could, as a community, cap, or even direct, what happens from here...

its a nice idea, but the horse has bolted, and nobody has control anymore of what happens with it from now on

[ElAurens]

Like I've said before, some of the folks at that other forum may have had the best of intentions, however they failed to take into account human nature. Once the seal to Pandora's Box was removed there was no stopping or controlling the outcome. The hacks are loose online, and there is nothing they can do about it. All the righteous words and intentions are meaningless.

You messed up.

You trusted people.

Big mistake.

Time to admit it to yourselves.

[jasonbirder]

Surely its the regular Hyperlobby players that have the issue with trust, you expect...no, indeed demand to be able to play with random, anonymous people of all ages and all nationalities and for that to be in a friendly historically accurate cheat-free environment!
Long before the Sound Mod came along there were issues with anonymous online play...whether that was suspected cheating, known exploits...(Lag Manipulation, Prnt Scrn, Disconnecting), innappropriate behaviour (bad language, abuse of chat/teamspeak), bad gamesmanship (friendly shooting, vulching, shoulder shooting, kill stealing etc etc...Thats without even mentioning the typical plane choices of many online players...
The issue is not with the Mod, but the fact that amongst Online players there will always be people who will abuse the system..whether to gain an advantage for themselves in their narrow "stat driven" mentality or simply because they enjoy spoiling other peoples fun...
Get rid of that element, be that through stronger Server Admin, Password access or private servers and you will have the gameplay you desire...Sound Mod or no Sound Mod.

[robtek]

@jasonbirder
The issue is insofar with the hack that the hack makes it possible that every tom, dick or harry can modify the game.
But that has been said many times before and i am afraid it will be ignored again.

[zapatista]

Surely its the regular Hyperlobby players that have the issue with trust, you expect...no, indeed demand to be able to play with random, anonymous people of all ages and all nationalities and for that to be in a friendly historically accurate cheat-free environment!
Long before the Sound Mod came along there were issues with anonymous online play...whether that was suspected cheating, known exploits...(Lag Manipulation, Prnt Scrn, Disconnecting), innappropriate behaviour (bad language, abuse of chat/teamspeak), bad gamesmanship (friendly shooting, vulching, shoulder shooting, kill stealing etc etc...Thats without even mentioning the typical plane choices of many online players...
The issue is not with the Mod, but the fact that amongst Online players there will always be people who will abuse the system..whether to gain an advantage for themselves in their narrow "stat driven" mentality or simply because they enjoy spoiling other peoples fun...
Get rid of that element, be that through stronger Server Admin, Password access or private servers and you will have the gameplay you desire...Sound Mod or no Sound Mod.

it doesnt really work like that in practice, and having the program files open as they are now is very different from the odd cheater pressing printscr.

the great thing about the online community with il2 has always been that at almost anytime of the day you can find some online servers with other enthusiasts on it from around the world. you dont need to know them personally for this to work, but it does/did rely on a fair and level playing field.

given the previous track record with hacks in most other games, we'll rapidly descend to the lowest common denominator.

[jasonbirder]

the great thing about the online community with il2 has always been that at almost anytime of the day you can find some online servers with other enthusiasts on it from around the world

Surely if it was such a great community, you wouldn't have to worry about people cheating you, the moment the opportunity became available?

[robtek]

@jasonbirder

what is it that you have to talk bad about the online community?
just to have the last word in a lost argument?

[LEXX]

jasonbirder:: Surely if it was such a great community, you [zapatista] wouldn't have to worry about people cheating you, the moment the opportunity became available?
robtek:: @jasonbirder

what is it that you have to talk bad about the online community?
just to have the last word in a lost argument?
That wasn't bad talk, but an observation on a small minority of hostile behaving players who can negatively effect anonymous public server gameplay and the worries of the majority of anonymous public server players.

Indeed. Hostile or non-cooperative gamer behavior on anonymous public servers years before this mod/hack is why many Online players retreated to private servers, or in extreme desperate cases, ran back to Offline play.

Zapitista raises an interesting point however and we'll take it further. One of the popular features among many customers is instantly available -- on demand -- anonymous gameplay without facing the need to trust other players on the field. For the Newbies just entering the sim, or first going Online, they may not know a "private" squad/server to join, and so see the anonymous public servers first -- along with the potentially hostile behavior and now, potential mod/hack cheating and more important, actual and popular webboard accusations of mod cheating.

Oleg poasted at ubizoo that he would split BoB And Beyond into "moddable" and "unmoddable" versions -- moddable for Offline play and open mod friendly servers, and closed or no modding to no-modding servers.

To some extent, we hope that's what happens with "moddable" 4.08 and "unmoddable" 4.09. From FB 1.0 up to now, the sim has been at one extreme -- "unmoddable" but with the mod/hack became more or less the other extreme -- "moddable." Hopefully, 4.09 will allow "unmoddable" while those wishing "moddable" will still have 4.08.

[zapatista]

Surely if it was such a great community, you wouldn't have to worry about people cheating you, the moment the opportunity became available?

i often find your sense of logic hard to follow. you make leaps and bounds between totally unrelated factors and blend them into a soup

yes, its great that you can find online servers with other enthusiasts on it from around the world, and having a level playing field.

how do you suddenly equate that with it not mattering that you can now join those same servers with hacks and other forms of cheating, and that the use of those hacks and cheats is unrestricted and remains undetected ? or that those same hack users not caring about the disruption caused to legitimate users ?

[Baron]

Ho Ho Ho

Just to clarify some mis-information and incorrect statements and assumptions. I've received a lot of Dear Santa PM in the past week, so instead replying to them all, this should cover it. (I'm a little busy right now)

The ntrks that were posted by me earlier...
Were made in Dec 2007 in version 4.08m (Not a previous version and not 409)
They were not made by some trick of the conf.ini file or any other ntrk trick.
There may be ways to do something similar in some other way. This was done simply by using the Sound Hack and downloads available at the much argued about website. No extractor or special java knowledge or tools....just the files offered from the site and no outside link.
The Lerche was NOT a choice in the servers. The violent reaction of the players in chat as they described there feelings about cheating with mods is why several of the ntrks were not posted for all.

Several asked why the Lerche didn't fly in the CTR=2 rooms or why they never saw it...It did. You needed to override the ntrk view control and cycle through the many players in the room. Instead of teaching those who have difficulty in figuring this out, I am simply re-posting a short version of the track filmed in WOE from another angle so that you can simply see it.

About a dozen similar tracks where made on the same day in servers including.
Spits vs 109s
Skies~of~Warping
UK Dedicated
Zeke vs Wilcats
WingOverEurope
and more, several of which are CRT=1 and CRT=2 and the Lerche was not a choice.

Since the original tracks were posted, several have asked for me to prove it by meeting them on their servers... Which I've done.

For those that didn't see the original ntrks, plenty of people have them and are welcome to re-post them.

Some of the naughty PMs assumed that I am against mods.
I am not against mods as long as the mods are created in a legal manor and/or the developer has given consent. There must also be a working option for the host/server to block the mods (and mutants of them) from online servers IF they are not welcome.. (LOL new technical term... mutant mods)

This ntrk simply shows that online players are not guaranteed a level playing field in 4.08m because the checkruntime is easily beat. The ntrk shows a Sound Hack Lerche take off in an online server (WOE) where the Lerche was not a choice and was not welcome. Again..this can be done in any crt=2 room. A Lerche was used to make it obvious. Using the sound hack any FM, DM or many other types of cheats could be used.

Ho Ho Ho - Still hope the Elves are working on 409 and its near release.

http://rapidshare.com/files/78861110/Sound_Hack_Lerche_ext_WOE.zip.html


Think i by misstake claimed in an earlier post that the tracks where made in 4.09.

I meant to say, of course, that it was in 4.08.

Sry, typo.

[LEXX]

Originally Posted by jasonbirder:: Surely if it was such a great community, you wouldn't have to worry about people cheating you, the moment the opportunity became available?

i often find your [jasonbirder] sense of logic hard to follow. you make leaps and bounds between totally unrelated factors and blend them into a soup

yes, its great that you can find online servers with other enthusiasts on it from around the world, and having a level playing field.

how do you suddenly equate that with it not mattering that you can now join those same servers with hacks and other forms of cheating, and that the use of those hacks and cheats is unrestricted and remains undetected ? or that those same hack users not caring about the disruption caused to legitimate users ?
Jasonbirder has offered us a too brief although deep insight into how a small minority of cheating players might negatively effect the otherwise great anonymous public server community when a possibility arises. As we covered last page, hostile or non-cooperative gamer behavior on anonymous public servers -- along with older cheats and exploits -- long before this mod/hack appeared is why many Online players retreated to private servers or even escaped back to Offline play. This long history of social behavioral problems on the FB/PF anonymous public servers shows that cheaters may be waiting to jump upon any opportunity that may arise.

However, we cannot assume that anonymous public server gameplay is the only gameplay that Oleg's customers are interested in. I think we are confusing the desire felt by many of Oleg's customers to improve alternative forms of gameplay with the desire by a few to cheat in the anonymous public servers. The solution for all of Oleg's customers would be an effective version split, say...

(1) Unhacked 4.09 for those hoping for cheat-free anonymous public server gameplay and those wanting to use new 4.09 features for any form of gameplay, including Newbies to the online aspect of the sim who would see this version first and only later (a good reason for the ubizoo Mod censoring) learn about....

(2) Hacked or unofficially "moddable" 4.08 that allows Oleg's customers to customize their sim in new ways that allow deeper simulation immersion for those who desire it.

------

Santa:: mutant mods
Good one!