Why can't Ace AI beat Ace humans?

[Jumoschwanz]

Just wondering in 1 vs. 1 fighter contests if the software is limited by the programmers, by it's design, or if the software is capable but the programmers are not?

[Sita]

at first i must say that make AI equal to Human is very difficult task ..even if we talk about only Il2 ... you can make AI pilot incredably accuracy shooting ... with very argessive and clear acurate manuvers .. but you can programm some unexpected actions from live pilot.. some improvisation ... some not ordinary steps in flight and fight...
so i suppose hard to say what's the matter .. matter in software or in programmers...

[Jumoschwanz]

so i suppose hard to say what's the matter .. matter in software or in programmers...

What would I need to have a try at improving the programming of the AI, are those resources available? Or is the source-code etc. still kept away from the public?

[Ice_Eagle]

at first i must say that make AI equal to Human is very difficult task ..even if we talk about only Il2 ... you can make AI pilot incredably accuracy shooting ... with very argessive and clear acurate manuvers .. but you can programm some unexpected actions from live pilot.. some improvisation ... some not ordinary steps in flight and fight...
so i suppose hard to say what's the matter .. matter in software or in programmers...
Then introduce random variables for the AI. Truly random. For instance, AI always goes into a steep climb to try and escape. Almost. Every. Time. Why not randomly pick High-g barrel roll / Defensive spiral / Rolling scissors / High Yo-Yo / Low Yo-Yo / Split-S / Immelmann / Defensive split / Pitchback / Wingover when on or near the AI's high/low 6 o'clock, 8-4 O'clock etc. Same with head-on pass, stay and hold your line or randomly pick something else.

[Treetop64]

Can't say that I've only experienced Veteran and Ace AI performing only one evasive maneuver every time. The ace bots I fight tend to be quite varied. Not quite human, obviously, but there's only so much to expect from a 20 year old, $20 period sim for entertainment purposes on home computers.

If anything, Rookie AI tends to be too good against Veterans and Ace flying similar equipment. The vets often fly too aggressively against the noobs, then get themselves in trouble trying to egress when things don't work out. Ace 109s vs. Rookie I-16s in 1941 is a typical scenario where this regularly occurs.

[JacksonsGhost]

Ace AI improvements yes, but I don't think I would want the Ace AI to be better than human Ace pilots all of the time. This would be neither realistic or fun in my opinion.

I like the way the Ace AI have different skill sets to each other, and generally do not have super-human abilities, but I certainly agree they should all be good enough to avoid the obvious rookie moves. I can imagine it's not so easy to program though.

Keep up the good work anyway DT. Judging by the upload/download activity on M4T there are still enough people who are appreciative of your work and still enjoying this sim. Quality WWII games can endure. Just look at "Squad Leader" in the board game world; started in 1977 and still being actively added to as "Advanced Squad Leader" because no one has produced anything as comprehensively good in the genre since then. And yes I remember when people in the Pacific Fighters forums said there would be no IL-2 patches after 4.05 - hahaaha!

[Sita]

What would I need to have a try at improving the programming of the AI, are those resources available? Or is the source-code etc. still kept away from the public?

sorry for delay ..

i'm not a specialist in that area ... can't say how those resources available or not ..but for example on Aviaskins one person - LeaderAI makes few interesting mods in that dirrection .. he work mostly with 4.13.4 but as i see he make build for 4.14 too ... so it's hard to say public resources or not.

[taly001]

1 vs 1 a skilled human pilot should be able to beat AI (unless you make AI superhuman like in some older sims, which is even less fun believe me).

Play more than 1 vs 1 and the AI is very good at using wingman tactics and dragging you towards their friends!