Ki-43-II Kai is actually a -III model?

[taly001]

With il2 4.12.1 I noticed that the Ki-43-II Kai appears to be using a -III model shape? ie. the ejector exhausts are grouped in -III style. However the performance when i test the -II Kai is identical with the -II? From what i learnt on the internet ;) The -II Kai model increased speed almost 35kph over the -II!

I think the il2 Ki-43-II Kai model be "renamed" into the -III which it resembles more closely, and the FM changed to the -III power rating and water injection (100L tank behind pilot) it makes a very useful upgrade in later war battles.

[*{64s}Saburo]

here 3 scans of my book about ki 43 1,2,and 3.
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/458261IMAG0065.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=458261IMAG0065.jpg)

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/659829IMAG0066.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=659829IMAG0066.jpg)

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/991052IMAG0067.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=991052IMAG0067.jpg)

[shelby]

Everything about ki-43 is here :)
https://www.scribd.com/document/148770631/Bunrindo-Famous-Airplanes-of-the-World-65-Nakajima-Ki-43-Hayabusa-Army-Type-1-Fighter

[Pursuivant]

The -II/ -III model confusion might be because older sources, especially Western sources, weren't always accurate in describing the various models of Japanese planes.

The plane in the game might actually be the Ki-43-II Kai

[*{64s}Saburo]

Is it possible to change this? Perhaps with the information I gave
Since the book from which I have drawn the scans is five years old?
I can redo them in more readable if you want! let me know....

[Pursuivant]

Wow. Taly001 is right. The exhaust manifold placement is that of the Ki-43-III, rather than the Ki-43-II Kai.

That's a problem since the Ki-43-III was produced in very limited numbers.
Either some 3D work needs to be done to make the exhaust manifold conform to the actual Ki-43-II Kai model, or the FM needs to be improved to that of the Ki-43-III Ko model (the main production model).

[taly001]

Thanks for looking at it, What worried me most was the il-2 speeds@altitudes for Ki-43-II and Ki-43-II kai were identical!?! From my research......

Model 1 (10/1941) 564L tanks and 11.43m wingspan, variations in MGs 1 or 2 x 7.7/12.7mm.

Model 2 (11/1942) 528L tanks introduced (basic anti-leak wrapping), 2x12.7mm.

Model 2B (8/1943) 10.83m wingspan introduced. rear facing exhausts.

Model 2kai (7/1944) ejector exhaust 1-3-2.

Model 3 (10/1944) ejector exhaust 2-3-2, engine gets MW50 (~100L tank behind cockpit) and higher altitude for 2nd stage on supercharger.

There were noticeable variations on the MG blast tubes and engine oil coolers also during production.

[shelby]

check this
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32946
i hope some day will fix them

[Pursuivant]

So, DT has known about the problem for years and hasn't fixed it yet. :(

From what I can tell, the modders haven't fixed this problem either.

Clearly not a whole lot of love for the Hayabusa!

[shelby]

The modders did not have access in burnindo books or at least the players did not care about the plane.

[taly001]

I think team "Greybeard" made a correct Ki-43-IIB, but I don't know if they ever got TD to add it. The current il2 Ki-43-II Kai has the wrong performance and wrong 3D model!?

Each improved version of Ki-43 added about 10-15kph. The Ki-43-III actually matches the late model Zero A6M5s.

[Pursuivant]

I think team "Greybeard" made a correct Ki-43-IIB, but I don't know if they ever got TD to add it.

Many mod teams don't like DT and don't share their work with them.

I enjoy the modded version of IL2 for the vast variety of aircraft available, but I like the official version because of the vastly improved AI which was introduced in 4.13.


Each improved version of Ki-43 added about 10-15kph. The Ki-43-III actually matches the late model Zero A6M5s.

I've always gotten the impression that the Ki-43 had a slightly better roll and turn rate than the Zero, but much less potential to upgrade the airframe and armament. I'm also not sure if the Ki-43 ever suffered from the problem of heavy controls at high speeds.

Those features make the Ki-43-III an unusual aircraft for a late war fighter - a vicious turn fighter, but very little punch so you have to choose your shots carefully.

[taly001]

Those features make the Ki-43-III an unusual aircraft for a late war fighter - a vicious turn fighter, but very little punch so you have to choose your shots carefully.

The JAAF failures to make the Ki-61 reliable and the problems sorting out the Ki-84 kept the Ki-43 in service 2 years past its use by date. Nakajima factories didn't fully change to Ki-84 production until 9/1944. But Tachikawa factories kept making Ki-43-III.

Its really challenging to fly in Il2 as you need to drag the enemy AI into a turn or climb where they lose speed, I once had a 40 minute dogfight Ki-43-II vs a AI P47D-10, I kept climbing and dodging and eventually I suckered him into loosing enough speed for me to nail him.

The simplest fix for the il2 Ki-43-II Kai would be to rename it -III and do a -III flight model tweak. The -III was used at Iwo Jima by 23rd Sentai in 2/45 and Okinawa 4/45 by at least 6 Sentai's so it actually suits il2 default map sets.

[Pursuivant]

The simplest fix for the il2 Ki-43-II Kai would be to rename it -III and do a -III flight model tweak.

But the old, incorrect Ki-43 model would have to be retained, for the same reason that the old, incorrect P-40 models must be retained.

Another solution would be to do a small amount of 3D work to give the Ki-43-II Kai the correct exhaust stacks, since I don't think that doing so would require a new skin template.

The existing Ki-43 model could be converted into a new aircraft like you suggested.

[Pursuivant]

Its really challenging to fly in Il2 as you need to drag the enemy AI into a turn or climb where they lose speed, I once had a 40 minute dogfight Ki-43-II vs a AI P47D-10, I kept climbing and dodging and eventually I suckered him into loosing enough speed for me to nail him.

I'd love to see a track of that fight! You must have killed the pilot or cut the control cables to get the kill. Otherwise, the P-47 would just shrug off all those light machine gun rounds.

[taly001]

I'd love to see a track of that fight! You must have killed the pilot or cut the control cables to get the kill. Otherwise, the P-47 would just shrug off all those light machine gun rounds.

I should have saved the .trk :( definitely my most epic fight ever. Best it also happened in a proper mission, the P47D-10 followed my Ki-43-II in a very long climbing turn then i noticed he began to fall back, I was able to flip the little Hayabusa around and got a long burst into his cockpit & engine from the high 4 O'clock at ~150m range and he went down.

But the old, incorrect Ki-43 model would have to be retained, for the same reason that the old, incorrect P-40 models must be retained.

Both Ki-43 and P-40 series deserve some work as they came in many variants over many years, both having ~40mph improvement from early to late models! A Ki-43-III needs a P-40N for company!

[shelby]

i found this also
https://www.scribd.com/document/211362543/Monografie-Lotnicze-No-48-Nakajima-Ki-43-Hayabusa-Oscar

[shelby]

and more details
https://www.scribd.com/document/330367634/Aero-Detail-29-Nakajima-Ki-43-Hayabusa-Oscar-pdf

[taly001]

and more details https://www.scribd.com/document/3303...busa-Oscar-pdf

Interesting found out that the small cylinder under the fuselage of late model Ki-43 is a fuel cooler!

Pictures of early model II seem to have the longer pointed tip wings.....although Aero Detail claim all II had the shorter rounder tip wing?

[shelby]

Interesting found out that the small cylinder under the fuselage of late model Ki-43 is a fuel cooler!

Pictures of early model II seem to have the longer pointed tip wings.....although Aero Detail claim all II had the shorter rounder tip wing?To find the truth check the burnido book

[taly001]

Yes it seems only the first <150 Ki-43-II got the longer 43-I wings. So the il2 Ki-43-II represents the major production model ~2800.

But the il2 Ki-43-II Kai is a mess. The Ki-43-II Kai was an interim Nakajima design produced 4/1944-9/1944, only ~500, some even used water injected engine.
The Ki-43-III was built ~1100 starting 10/1944 at Tachikawa, all with Ha115-II water injected engine.

I have been using SFS file extracting tools and looking at SAS mods. They have proper Ha115-II engine with auto-water injection (system like Ki-84).

The easiest fix would be keeping the "coded" name KI_43_IIKAI for compatibility, but changing "game" name to Ki-43-III, and aliasing the Ha115-II engine for it, with ~100L MW tank behind pilot.

[Fhechene]

Yes it seems only the first <150 Ki-43-II got the longer 43-I wings. So the il2 Ki-43-II represents the major production model ~2800.

But the il2 Ki-43-II Kai is a mess. The Ki-43-II Kai was an interim Nakajima design produced 4/1944-9/1944, only ~500, some even used water injected engine.
The Ki-43-III was built ~1100 starting 10/1944 at Tachikawa, all with Ha115-II water injected engine.

I have been using SFS file extracting tools and looking at SAS mods. They have proper Ha115-II engine with auto-water injection (system like Ki-84).

The easiest fix would be keeping the "coded" name KI_43_IIKAI for compatibility, but changing "game" name to Ki-43-III, and aliasing the Ha115-II engine for it, with ~100L MW tank behind pilot.
It is totally possible, and easy, to have an script which changes all mentions of the keyword KI_43_IIKAI to the keyword KI_43_IIIKAI in all mis files in all the folders of your Sturmovik installation. You could also change all mentions of KI 2 to KI 3 in the properties files.

The issue would be with all the mis files in the internet, like in M4T or patrulla-azul. I don't know HTML, so I don't know if it could be possible to change already uploaded files.

[taly001]

I have still been researching how to fix the il2 Ki-43-II Kai which as at 4.13.4 is still not right.

The Ki-43-II Kai all came with bomb racks which reduced speed to that of the earlier -II models, so Il-2 version is OK there....but then the bomb racks should be added to the 3D model, and the existing 3D exhausts pipes are still wrong as they are in the -III style.

It still seems much easier to alter some 20 lines of code to make it match its 3D model which is of a Ki-43-III, by aliasing the game name to Ki-43-III and adding the Ha-115-II water injected motor specifications, with 70 ltr H2O tank behind pilot.

[Pursuivant]

I have still been researching how to fix the il2 Ki-43-II Kai which as at 4.13.4 is still not right.

I believe that the only way to fix this problem is to keep the old, incorrect, model and add the corrected model as a new plane. That was what was done with the badly-modeled early Hawk 81/P-40 series when we got a better replacement.