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planespotter
11-09-2007, 12:12 PM
WARNING: RANT BELOW

Just looked at the Oleg post and have to admit the idea of flying antiquated Italian aircraft in the Battle of Britain just doesnt do it for me!

Nor for that matter do I want to fly clapped out Defiants, Blenheims or Gladiators.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be buying it as soon as it hits the shelves, but I just wish 1C wouldnt waste so much time on modelling the obscure and uninteresting B actors in the conflict, instead of focusing on the core aircraft and game. I mean, this quote just about sums up the Italian air force contribution to the conflict:

"The bomber effort of the CAI ended as it started, with a touch of farce when a single BR.20M flown by the CO of 240a Squadriglia took off to bomb London. Almost inevitably the crew became lost and bailed out near Abbeville."

Maybe if the devs weren't spending so much time on Regia Aeronautica CR42s, BR20s and Cant Z's (no doubt in all the relevant variants) the thing would be finished by now and we would all be zooming through the Dover skies in our Emils and Spits.

I mean hell, if there is a such a market out there of weirdo simmers who like flying obscure and pointless aircraft, release it as an add-on and keep all 5 of them happy!

END OF RANT

Jutocsa
11-09-2007, 12:20 PM
And I say, bring in the crapplanes. All of them. Its such a pity that if one wants to make money, one needs to waste time on planes like P-51, Spitfire, Bf-109...planes that can be flown in every single damn game ever made about WW2. Its almost as boring as playing Omaha Beach in all the recent WW2 fps games :roll:

Dont you think one of the main causes behind the unmatched popularity of Il-2 series was that it offered more than just the usual deadly overdone P-51vsBf 109 action ? Im glad 1C is Russian, this way not only the major powers of the WW2 got into the game, and Im sure its more like 5 simmers that feel the same way :)

planespotter
11-09-2007, 12:22 PM
hmmm, you know i always do get the italian and hungarian flags confused!

:)

just joking signore, but really, do you seriously think people bought IL2 to fly the TB-3? the IL2 itself was the drawcard, and it was the novelty of the conflict itself that the game modelled that drew people in (air war on the eastern front) not the fact they could fly a Soviet biplane against an Me 109. How much of that do you see on the online servers?

as people got bored with the central elements of the game they experimented with the weirdo aircraft, which helps longevity but is not the reason people bought the game in the first place (maybe we should do another poll...).

and the franchise has succeeded to live so long exactly because it went mainstream and modelled Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, Zeroes, Avengers etc not because it gave us the PZL P.11 and Polikarpov I-16!

my goodness we are still waiting for a Spitfire 1a/b for an IL2 game, so that in itself will be a novelty for SOW.

and yes, the Battle has been done before, in its conventional form, a number of times, most recently in the fantastic Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory from Shockwave.

but that doesnt make it any less engaging to strap on a Spitfire 1b and fly into a massed formation of Heinkels, 109e's and 110's and duke it out. and you just know Oleg is going to do it better than anyone else has ever done it before so it will be worth it.

if he ever stops piddling around with the positioning of the struts on the Feisler Storch (a critical player in the Battle of Britain) and gets back to the Spits, Hurris and Emils...

Of course, I may be out of line.

8)

123-Wulf-123
11-09-2007, 12:29 PM
They say ignorance is bliss :roll:

I don't agree, I think stupid is as stupid does :roll:

Jutocsa
11-09-2007, 12:29 PM
hmmm, you know i always do get the italian and hungarian flags confused!



Tell me about it :lol:

Skarphol
11-09-2007, 12:37 PM
I agree with Jutocsa on this one! Without the 'crap'-planes this sim would have been way to similar to other games in the market. Personally I would wish that the guys who create online maps would limit the planeset even more, so that there would be more varity in online gaming. It's so much fun to fight with the P.11, Galdiator, I16, Ki-27 or Cr.42.
I think that is one of the strongest points of this game.

I can wait half a year or more for BOB, but I'm really getting anxious to see the Solvakia map.

Skarphol

planespotter
11-09-2007, 12:47 PM
They say ignorance is bliss :roll:

I don't agree, I think stupid is as stupid does :roll:

Sorry, I thought it might be possible to have an opinion here without getting called stupid. I'm not trolling.

And I didn't actually use the word 'crap' anywhere.

Can we avoid being personal so that this thread doesnt get shut down and removed?

Jutocsa
11-09-2007, 12:57 PM
I still think many Poles bought it for the P.11c, Finns for their many crapplanes, me for the Balaton map, Rumanians for the IARs. And even if the majority bought it only for the common planes, not having anything else but the mainstream might have just killed Il-2. Marginal planes maybe arent the main food itself, but would you go to a restaurant where they dont use spices ?

GladiatorsRule
11-09-2007, 12:59 PM
THIS IS MY FIRST POST EVER ON THIS FORUM I THINK HE IS COMPLETELY WRONG BUT I ALSO THINK HE IS ENTITLED TO AN OPINION WITHOUT BEING CALLED STUPID

BUT MAYBE IM STUPID?

ANYWAY, GLADIATORS RULE DUDE - NOW, BACK TO MED AIR WAR!!

Jutocsa
11-09-2007, 01:03 PM
And you are entitled to gently press that Caps Lock again :P :roll: :lol:

planespotter
11-09-2007, 01:08 PM
Actually Juto I dont disagree with anything in your last post. I like the comment about the spice (I'm a sweet chilli girl myself).

If I could get it back on track, it is just that I wish 1C would focus a little more (narrow the scope) to get this sim finished quicker.

Would most people prefer a BOB SOW now, with Spits and Emils and Heinkels, or a BOB SOW in 2009 with Regia Aeronautica?

That seems to be what it comes down to...

Jutocsa
11-09-2007, 01:23 PM
Thats a better question. I still go for 2009 though. Also there is no telling whether the game would be out this year, hadnt they started working on Italian planes. There is more work to do yet other than Regia Aeronautica

Antoninus
11-09-2007, 02:34 PM
For me the ability to fly the lesser known planes used in a conflict contributes greatly to the atmosphere and attractiveness of the IL-2 series. Especially in such a limited episode of WW2 as the Battle of Britain it's important to have some variation in the plane set and show all aspects of the air war.

I still hope that there will be a flyable Skua in BOB one day.

BadAim
11-09-2007, 02:42 PM
I'm certainly all for the quickest possible release of a perfected BOB, but you also must consider that probably most of us are also chomping at the bit for the Med part of SOW, which will require these very planes, and then that will take that much longer.

Also I'm not convinced that the planes are even relevant to the timing of the game release, given the realities of such a complex product. If the time consuming part of the work is on the game engine, then the guys who are working on the planes might not be able to help with that anyway.

If your using every one to the best of thier given abilities, then it doesn't make sense to pull someone off one job that thier good at and throw them on another that thier not. I.E.: your house might get built faster if the framers stay and do sheet rock and trim work, but it won't be anywhere near as nice (and it night not even get done faster with a bunch of framers in the sheet rockers way).
know what I mean?

Any way I don't know any more than anyone else, but thats my take on the situation.

bigbossmalone
11-09-2007, 04:19 PM
nobody should be calling anyone stupid here, imo...
as planespotter says in his title, though, we CAN call him weird... :D
I like the more obscure planes, too, but definitely not at the expense of the more popular ones...

_1SMV_Gitano
11-09-2007, 05:11 PM
the more popular ones...

Well, it depends on the point of view: ask any Mustang-won-the-war fanboy if he cares about early Spits and Emils.

Unfortunately simmers that equally enjoy any plane are a minority...

GOZR
11-09-2007, 07:25 PM
Jutocsa I'll tell you what Pity .. make a sim based on SPits again and again to get $.. but once again forgot the French airplanes which at the time were great!!. see the year before WW2 actually really started.. battle between France and Germany just before English got smached and runaway in there island..
Germany in the air didn't have the upper hand ..

stalkervision
11-09-2007, 07:44 PM
I actually would like the real important stuff like the AI for example to be addresses first before all the added planes but that won't happen so give me the planes.. :)

Jutocsa
11-09-2007, 07:47 PM
Thats a pity indeed. Although I completely understand that every project needs money to continue, and any sim starting with Poland or French is doomed financially. Or with the Yugoslavian campaign with Hungary, just to make it personal for me too :)

SlipBall
11-09-2007, 07:49 PM
Sorry, but I like the variety of aircraft. I want a sim that lets me recreate the historic battles that took place. I enjoy flying escort, and I like being escorted. A sim with a few fighters dogfighting all the time would be a bore to me :P

GOZR
11-09-2007, 07:51 PM
Yeap.. hoping that like il2 the range of battles will be possible to be wide..

Vigilant
11-11-2007, 12:56 AM
Wow, never thought I'd find so many people who would defend such aircraft, but I understand why some would want to fly them.

Just one thing I wanted to quantify though...why are those same people pushing for those extra aircraft to be included in a sim named Battle of Britain:Storm of War?

Maybe 1C needs to rethink the title and just call it Storm of War, just to keep them happy :roll:

Jutocsa
11-11-2007, 08:55 AM
So because its Battle of Britain, it should contain nothing but British planes I suppose...fine idea :D :P

_1SMV_Gitano
11-11-2007, 09:45 AM
I think some people would prefer a "SOW:Battle of Spitfire vs Emil" title but in the Battle of Britain the Regia Aeronautica was there, as well as Defiants, Blenheims ecc. so i would like to see them all... :wink:

Fritzgryphon
11-11-2007, 11:35 AM
I'll call you weird, Planespotter.

The Italian stuff is what with be most fresh and interesting in the game. Polish and French planes, even better.

Spit and BF-109 have been done in every BoB game, and every WWII flight sim in existence. How many times can one sit in the same cockpit? It is more polygons, but still.

Like IL-2 was such an interesting game because of the Russian planes, SoW:BoB will be interesting because of the Italian ones.

I'd even go so far to say there is one variety of gamer that wants the same game over and over. They want things predictable so as not to be challenged or frightened. They play mass-market FPS clones, or online RPGs with endless grinds; for simply the sake of killing time. It is not entertainment they seek, but distraction. It is an objectless vice, perpetuating sadness and boredom, and thus perpetuating further need for distraction with things sparkly and novel, but still comfortingly familiar.

There is another gamer that refuses to tolerate the same, and the easy, because it would be a waste of their precious time. The same plane does not excite them, for it's habits are well known. The uberplane will not improve them as much as the crap plane. The popular history of Hollywood is so much debris to be dusted away in the search for the real stories of the great war who's lessons might enlighten our reason. The noob planes circle listlessly about this player, and go through the motions of fighting. But they are actually mindless, dead, piloted by those in a reflexive cycle of repetition that goes on monotonously until the ground rushes up to crush them, then to rise again, even duller than before. This player kicks ass in the CR42, dances smartly in the Su-26, and owns vultures with flak. He is more skilled, richer in mind and spirit, and intensely entertained.

Or maybe it's just me.

DKoor
11-11-2007, 12:03 PM
Me wants all those Br.20s, Sm.79s, Cant Z.1007s, Cr.32s etc.

I flew Hurris, Spits and Bf-109s in every other sim I ever played.

Vigilant
11-11-2007, 12:32 PM
I'll call your post entertaining Fritzgryphon. So you got us all pegged hey? Well maybe you're forgetting a third group, those who want to see this sim historically accurate. I'm sure you also feel that way. Personally, to me it's all these new suggestions that are being thrown around that make this all so exciting and immersing. You even referred to it as being entertained, a fair call.

But please, dont trying slotting individuals into opinon boxes to make yourself look better. That's weak. We all like flying - let's all enjoy what's coming rather than take the piss out of each other...

-Sulan-
11-11-2007, 01:19 PM
And I say, bring in the crapplanes. All of them. Its such a pity that if one wants to make money, one needs to waste time on planes like P-51, Spitfire, Bf-109...planes that can be flown in every single damn game ever made about WW2. Its almost as boring as playing Omaha Beach in all the recent WW2 fps games :roll:

Dont you think one of the main causes behind the unmatched popularity of Il-2 series was that it offered more than just the usual deadly overdone P-51vsBf 109 action ? Im glad 1C is Russian, this way not only the major powers of the WW2 got into the game, and Im sure its more like 5 simmers that feel the same way :)

I feel exactly the same!!!

There used to be a "crapplanes gallore" server on Hyperlobby (maybe there still is, I haveĀ“nt been on in a while) I was on that server alot!

I love crapplanes!!!

felix_the_fat
11-11-2007, 02:06 PM
I vote for crapplanes! they are the greatest.
I once met an old guy who flew Vickers Wellesleys and Valentias, in
Eritrea/Ethiopia at the very beginning of the war , against the Regia!
Now, that campaign would be crapplane heaven.
and Will it ever be in a later sequel to BOB?
Me and the other 2 fans arent holding our breath !