What is the worst thing in this sim series poll

[Evgeny]

Well, after analysing the "worst thing" topic, I decided to start a poll about the same thing. So vote and, please, comment on the option you chose.

[JG27_brook]

Hmmm 109 :wink: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDImSVoiJJY

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

those bomber gunners are a bit too sharp..

[Antoninus]

The AI, for me not necessarily how the Ai pilots their airplane but how they behave in certain situations.

Ai squadrons are overly aggressive, they search combat much too often in situations were an ordinary human pilot would just try to save his life.

They fight if they are totally outnumbered and continue to do so even with already damaged planes until the last one has crashed or no enemy remains. Rarely I've seen planes that try to disengage and escape.

Sometimes fighters abandon the bombers they are tasked to escort just to chase a single enemy over half the map. Also as soon as AI planes have entered the landing pattern they totally ignore all orders given to them and do not defend them self anymore when they are attacked by enemy fighters.

[SlipBall]

I voted for the sound.....while not terrible, it is not at the level of the grafic's quality

[SFM-SPIT]

Good idea a Poll..

Even if IL2 is certainly the best WWII sim ever seen ( until we fly BoB) all is not really at 100% sometimes only 99,99 :D

Seriously

Sound is certainly the main weakness of the sim.. sound are not bas buit only acceptable.. I know talking about sound actually is a bit Hot... But obviously better sound was possible ( no doubt in BoB the lesson will be retained)

I see many fan shooting on AI.. ( quite normal.. too) but i think IA ist not so bad
As our squad by choice play coop against IA : we prefer a bit more historical situation than sport competition our goal is to act as a real squad thant to have a good kill ratio..
So we play aagainst AI all along the year..
Ok AI is not top notch , and can be strange sometime..

Maybe many probs come from mission bulding.. using groups of 4 plane cause thing like wingmen only following leader and be very passive
Using max 2 planes group or better 1 plane force the IA to be more agressive.
But i'm ok AI can be upgraded :)

But i think anyone can agree IL2 is the better sim i 've seen.. for WWII..
and my first Sim was Flight Simulator 1 around late 70's on Tandy TRS 80


Oopps.. i'm too old to play :D

[Bearcat]

Id have to go with all of the above... but ya know... if BoB was delayed 12 months Id still be flying 456 every day that I could. Warts and all it is still hands down without a doubt THE absolute best WWII flight sim available today. The AI really frustrates me the most though... and I lump the invulnerable gunners with the AI...

[Monty_Thrud]

I voted for sounds, as said, it's not equal to the great graphics.

However, the AI, although not very bad, is not as good as it has been, was it 3.04 or 3.05?, where it was pretty good.

My complaints are:-

1] AI still get stuck in that dive and climb merry-go-round, continually as if about to attack, then climbing again.

2] AI ignoring orders, eg-" #1 bandit on your six"...im thinking great!, i've got a live one here...#2 cover me... "rgr" says #2...cannon shells zip past my CP...erm..#2 attack enemy fighters..."rgr" says #2...more cannon shells...erm...ok this is getting serious, emergency...sqd, i've got a total pratt for a wingman, can anyone help me PLEASE!!...silence

This doesent happen all the time, but far to often.

3] Far to many collisions, i realise this happened IRL, but still to often.

4] Ai inability to attack ground targets.

5]Ace mode should be very difficult to shoot down and performing incredible moves and usually requiring you to get your wingman or sqd to help you, veteran should be difficult to shake off your tail, but not as good at getting hits on you...average should be capable but resonably easy to shake with slight chance of getting a hit on you, rookie should be the ones flying level in combat zone, and struggling keeping up with his leader in combat zone, and a bad shot. IMHO

To me the sign of a quality sim/game is in its graphics/ attention to detail/sounds for immersion/AI/online, and others...IL2 Sturmovik 1946 has most of these qualities.

[tagTaken2]

Sounds are pretty rancid, but as an offliner, I'm going to have to pick AI. It's hard to care whether your squadron makes it through when they continually steal kills and shoot through you :x

I've made this comment before, but Oleg should hire the guys who work on BoB:WoV... sensational AI.

Thank you for listening, BTW

[Evgeny]

That was the 2000th post on this forum. Congratulations!

[tagTaken2]

*weeps*

What have I won?

[Evgeny]

Well, actually, nothing. :) But anyway, that's nice to see you, guys, there. Your participation in this forum is very pleasant for us and we're happy to work for you. Thank you, tagTaken2, that you were the one who made the 2000th post. :wink:

[csThor]

I don't like the term "worst thing". It implies that there is something seriously wrong with core features. However I think there are things which detract from the enjoyment we can get out of the sim.

1.) AI

The AI has its moments. Both positively and negatively. My main gripe is with the bomber AI as it doesn't behave like a bomber AI but more like a bomber pilot who wanted to be a fighter jock. A B-17 doing loopings and barrel rolls? Huh? :shock:
Then there are the gunners. The only predictable thing about them is them being unpredictable - sniper now, blind and deaf the next second.
And finally there are the fighter AI issues which have already been brought up (shoulder-shooting, inability to use deflection etc).

2.) DM inconsistencies

Ever seen a Yak burn from its engine? Or a LaGG-3? The P-47 with a glass jaw? The "one hit and you're crawling slower than a snail" Fw 190? Nuff said.

3.) default textures and markings

There's so much diversity between the default skins (see Fw 190 A-6 vs F6F3, those are dimensions apart) that it takes away. I regularly use skins for all aircraft as I just can't stand the defaults anymore. They're partially 5 years old and that shows ... The markings are not the best, either, but that's also owed to the game's age.

And and and ... IMO there are a lot of tiny things which detract from the sim's enjoyment, but you probably won't see them unless you've spent a lot of time with the sim. 8)

[DKoor]

Rendering of distance...
Because it affects both offliners and onliners and also I don't wanna be selfish on either way :lol:

[SFM-SPIT]

Agree with you Thor

For AI i've only think to fighters AI not too bads

For bomber its effectively quite surprising to see heavy's try to fly like fighters. Even see a bomber hit a wing ripped apart and see the gunners contiuning to fire at you :wink:

Intelligence of AI is sometimes surprising.. I've seen one time only one.. a Yak i'm hunting slowing down manoeuvering in S with full flaps and finally extending gear..


For Skins and Markings there's so many skinners creating good stuff, i think old default skins ( sometimes really bas) are not a problem..

As said by Thor. after many hours spend with all IL2 opus we have seen many many things..

Each time we fly in our squad there's always a guy to say " Wow... It's really great.. "

[fly_zo]

Well, actually, nothing. :) But anyway, that's nice to see you, guys, there. Your participation in this forum is very pleasant for us and we're happy to work for you. Thank you, tagTaken2, that you were the one who made the 2000th post. :wink:


yup but our patience can endure for that long..... where the h**l is Oleg?

sorry just had to let it out...

~S~
Z

[Dozer_EAF19]

1.) AI

2.) DM inconsistencies

3.) default textures and markings

Wot 'e sed. For me the most frustrating thing is flying against the AI. I think I identified the Four Maddening Habits of AI pilots at one point - seemingly always faster in a shallow climb, unable to deflection-shoot, flying into the ground while formating on you when you land, spotting you through cloud, always knowing when you're reaching convergence range on their low six somehow and then diving, then flying in a straight line for home while you gently shoot them to pieces... can't remember the exact list. I know that despite this the Il-2 AI is still the best there is and brilliant in other ways, but it's a joy to go to HL and fly against human pilots!

Variable damage models also are an irritation. Some are just weird, like the Storch and Po-2. The way that AI aircraft always seem to fall slower than yours after a collision is really strange too - watching a He111 rotating like a helicopter as it gently spirals into the ground... I really hope that there's some clearly-defined standard for damage models, written in big letters on the 1C SoW office wall somewhere...

[Bearcat]

I don't like the term "worst thing". It implies that there is something seriously wrong with core features. However I think there are things which detract from the enjoyment we can get out of the sim.

1.) AI

The AI has its moments. Both positively and negatively. My main gripe is with the bomber AI as it doesn't behave like a bomber AI but more like a bomber pilot who wanted to be a fighter jock. A B-17 doing loopings and barrel rolls? Huh? :shock:
Then there are the gunners. The only predictable thing about them is them being unpredictable - sniper now, blind and deaf the next second.
And finally there are the fighter AI issues which have already been brought up (shoulder-shooting, inability to use deflection etc).

2.) DM inconsistencies

Ever seen a Yak burn from its engine? Or a LaGG-3? The P-47 with a glass jaw? The "one hit and you're crawling slower than a snail" Fw 190? Nuff said.

3.) default textures and markings

There's so much diversity between the default skins (see Fw 190 A-6 vs F6F3, those are dimensions apart) that it takes away. I regularly use skins for all aircraft as I just can't stand the defaults anymore. They're partially 5 years old and that shows ... The markings are not the best, either, but that's also owed to the game's age.

And and and ... IMO there are a lot of tiny things which detract from the sim's enjoyment, but you probably won't see them unless you've spent a lot of time with the sim. 8)

Yes you have a point Thor.. AFAIC there are no show stoppers in this sim... It isnt perfect.. but it is the closest thing to it that we have at the moment.

[Triad773]

Have to say I can overlook the other issues- but when flying an offline mission and you tell your squad to return to base, and some of them blindly fly into a mountain, or your wingman who maybe you forgot to tell them to return to base flys along side you until you land. Of course that results in disaster for the wingman, who has flown into the ground of his own accord.

I had started making a Machinima movie after recording a mission: basic story line goes something like this-
- Flying Tigers in P-40's hurriedly take off (two squads of 3 each- take off from opposite ends of the runway- this part of not so smart AI works as it ends up being exciting seeing if the other 5 planes will hit each other or not as they take off :P )
- 4 Japanese Betty Bombers incoming with a load of love for the Flying Tigers' base
- Action ensues with 2 Bettys downed by Flying Tigers, but then...
- 2 remaining Bettys seem to :? Kamikaze into the forest short of their own runway.

I wrote the story line around the action that the last 2 bombers were so bereft of seeing the demise of their comrades that they couldn't take it.

If I can ever finish the soundtrack for it, and upload it somewhere, I think it would be a hoot :P

Thanks for the poll Evgeny 8)

Cheers

Triad

[II./JG1_Krupinski]

I voted rendering distance due to the rendering of bogeys at distance.

Seems that they should blend more than they do, maybe its a haze thing or something.

-Raven

[choctaw111]

I voted for bad AI...but I don't like how stuff just "pops up" out of nowhere in the distance. Heck, all of the choices in the poll would have been good picks, but I could only pick one.

[RockStar]

Tough choice between AI and sounds but I went with sounds. They just don't measure up IMO even with a kick arse sound setup.

[BadAim]

I...Can't ....... Choose.......AAAAAArrrrrrrggggggggg! Seriously though, I think all of the above are just about equal.

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

The sounds, it has always been the series weakest link. Microsoft allready had real or very believable engine sounds in their sims, but Il-2 sounded outdated from the beginning.

The AI isn't too bad, it is better then any other sims. And AI gunners, well, you really had to watch out for them in real life anyways. In the war, it was also not adviced to approach them flat and from the rear.

[SlipBall]

The AI isn't too bad, it is better then any other sims. And AI gunners, well, you really had to watch out for them in real life anyways. In the war, it was also not adviced to approach them flat and from the rear.



I also think that the AI are ok..........real pilots did avoid being flat, and they changed their speed alot to throw off gunners....ground, ship, and air

[JG4_Greif]

For me it is simply the sound. I saw the 109 flying last year at the ILA and the year before on the Oldtimer Flight Show(Hahnweide) and it has such an amazing sound, it is so great. I am so glad that I had the chance to hear that. i just don`t get why it is difficult to make it. You have 109 flying with their DB605 at the Messerschmitt-Stiftung.

[HFC_Dolphin]

Actually the worse thing of IL-2 series has always been its offline mode and especially its campaigns.
I still cannot understand how anyone can enjoy them and I've given it many tries. Result always the same: why am I torturing myself? :shock:

On the other hand, its online mode is the best game ever published.

All in all, it's the best game ever, but has significant problem keeping you offline.

S!

[HenFre]

I voted AI. The AI is terrible at low level. In 2 out of 3 engagements it crashes into the ground while performing high risk manouvers at treetop height. I know that it accured in real life, but I just don't believe that it happend that often..

I hope that the AI will be greatly improved with SOW:BOB and hopefully the missionbriefings will also see some much need attention.

Henrik

[3./JG51_Rudel]

The AI, it seems that OLEG got everything right except the dang AI. The worst part of it the maneuvers they perform.

[sdcruz]

PLease please please improve AI - your team is very smart indeed and I now they can make the AI code smarter!

Thankyou!
Shelton.

[sdcruz]

Actually the worse thing of IL-2 series has always been its offline mode and especially its campaigns.
I still cannot understand how anyone can enjoy them and I've given it many tries. Result always the same: why am I torturing myself? :shock:

On the other hand, its online mode is the best game ever published.

All in all, it's the best game ever, but has significant problem keeping you offline.

S!

What's so bad with the offline campaigns ?

[Billfish]

Worst thing is not in the poll.......That being the ability to switch off the F6 & F7 functions as a server difficulty setting for online play IMLTHO.

[Vigilant]

To be honest none of the poll options grabbed me.

What I will say though, and I know some will think this is not important, and I apologise if this has been covered before - but for my two cents - the net code and ladder support are absolutely critical for 1C to include in the next incarnation of IL-2. Why? Because in my most humble opinion as a gamer, if 1C does not address this, then some other developer will come along and nail it (ie. the MP code and ladder support) , probably also noting 1C's strongpoints in damage and physics rendering but probably not doing so good an effort. A lesser game, marketed well, could eat away at the player base of IL-2. I don't think any of us want that here.

Rather, if 1C spent a little time on the multiplayer aspect and looked at how things like the much applauded (and also criticised) Hyperlobby have changed IL-2, and made it easier for teams to arrange matches and interact with each other, you could/should/will have an űber-sim so to speak...

I am a former CO of an Australian squadron that constantly had problems with matchups that HL wasn't able to solve. In the end, but principally by other factors, the isolation of infrequent matches killed the Squadron. Now firstly, I am in no way blaming anybody except myself for this, however - had there been a proper matchup system implemented into IL-2 earlier it would significantly improved our chances of staying in the air.

The combat flight sim community has a lot of dedicated enthusiasts without a doubt. What needs to happen is for those people to be able to get into the air as quickly as possible with a minimum of fuss. Ladder support and attention to the multiplayer aspect would go a long way into achieving another long period with BoB becoming the choice of us combat propeller-heads.

I would also really hope that the next FMB editor allow creation of new maps (specifically terrain etc.) for us to contribute to recreation of all theatres of war without having to wait for patch updates hoping that what we desire to have in the game gets released.

I can appreciate that 1C already has a lot on it's plate at the moment, and BoB is already shaping up to be the next generation CFS that we are hoping for - but since I haven't seen anyone in any forum say much about these topics, I thought it was worth at least discussing.

Thanks for listening :D

[ElAurens]

Worst thing is not in the poll.......That being the ability to switch off the F6 & F7 functions as a server difficulty setting for online play IMLTHO.

Agree 100%

Only have external for your aircraft and no padlock of any kind would totally change the sim for the better.

[planespotter]

Agree with the comments about the offline campaign being the biggest weakness. But to answer the question about what is wrong with the offline dynamic campaign:

- no atmosphere, each mission briefing is just a matter of 'go here - do that'

- no 'storyline' or drama, just dry technical gameplay.

- often very difficult to guess what the mission objective is, and thus to achieve it. The briefing tells you it's a bomber intercept. But you often have to destroy an unknown (and unrealistic % of a) target formation to succeed. Often to achieve this you have to rely on your wingmen to contribute as there is no way (except with unlimited ammo) you could achieve it on your own.

It is a huge immersion/enjoyment killer to fly a bomber intercept mission, bring down a bomber and maybe a 109 as well, and then be told your mission is a failure! Or to find yourself tangling with two fighter staffel, bring down two 109s, and find you didn't attack the 'target' staffel, so you fail.

- no ability to steer the strategic level of the conflict, you are always just playing at a tactical level and in BOB SOW this would very much limit the joy of experimenting with alternative histories. (BOBII campaign is a nice example of how to model the strategic level of a WWII air war)

Having said that the ability of IL2 MB to allow users to create scripted offline campaigns is fantastic! With all respect to the creators of BOBII I personally don't think anything can match the enjoyment of a well scripted Battle of Britain campaign such as Poymando's Battle over Britain or Cobra427s Hurricane Season/SpitnFire. Yes they both have to use the Gulf of Finland map, but the ability to script the missions, with random elements, makes every mission immersive and challenging.

A big reason these campaigns work however is that while the mission goal is stated in the briefing text, in actual play, the mission is usually deemed 'achieved' by reaching a recon waypoint, meaning the player is free to play every mission with a complete freedom of action. (This is similar to the BOBII campaign in effect, once in the air, you are in control of your own destiny and not punished for making rational choices in the thick of combat).

The mission may be a bomber intercept, but as in real life, if the player gets tangled with Emils and survives or downs a few, the mission is not declared a 'failure' and has to be reflown; the player still lives to fight the next mission. Sure, as the player you know you didn't achieve the objective and stop the bombing raid, but you can make your own judgement about whether you want to refly. Most simmers are grown ups, and this format treats them as such!

This contributes greatly to the enjoyment and I really hope SOW learns from this and gives this kind of freedom to the player in the offline campaign. If you look at the most popular offline campaign downloads you will see they have this free-form format, and there is a lesson in that.

[heywooood]

worst thing about this old sim is its, whiney, ungrateful, chartbrandishing, bias accusing, patch impatient, ace hating, cheat hacking, soul sucking online forum community....but I love you guys as much as Oleg does be sure?

[zapatista]

Rendering of distance

right now on a pc screen/monitor the il2 aircraft LoD models at medium and far distances blend in to much with the terrain and background, and they should stand out more !

object visibility distances for spotting, tracking, and identification of objects (trucks, planes, tanks etc..) is 50 to 70 % less than what it is in real life.

we cant be expected to permanently fly in the max zoom view, and should see those objects correctly when we select the "normal" FoV (being "normal" for our specific monitor size).

ideally during initial game installation you should be asked to enter your monitor size , and this would then set the correct FoV for the "normal" default view. you can then still have a zoom view set to another key, and a max view to increase situational awareness when needed.

that should then start people with the correct object visibility (if the il2 objects stand out enough against the 2D terrain being seen on a pc monitor), and they can still go and edit it in the setup options for their FoV if they want to change it later.

[BlitzPig_Voidcracker]

I voted for the uber gunners...though i agree with most of the things posted in this thread about other things as well.
Still my favorite sim of all time though.


8)

[number9ark]

I voted sounds but I love the game and have never really found a problem with any part of it. but full stero sound or 5.1 or 7.1 surround would be awsome to have in it .. :wink:

[GOZR]

For me what is the worst is the distance of sight and objects..

Those overcast clouds and fog together make the peoples not use those kind of weather witch were very very frequent..

Overcast with no haze like we have now that would be great to have the choice.

Snow with the wind settings adjustable same with rain.

this should of be done long agao already..

[Insuber]

Can't choose an option. Some details to improve/add IMHO:

- allow community created maps (and maybe planes?)
- online/offline missions improvable
- refueling / rearming procedures (but don't know how honestly)
- real time real time on-screen gunnery statistics (for training purposes)
- predictive gunsight, as an aiming aid (for training pusposes again -- my aim sucks ...)

Anyway it's a beatiful sim and addictive game.

Regards,
Insuber

[Schwarz.13]

Well i've not been playing the game all that long but being a purist with a high-end (X-Fi) sound card - i would love authentic engine sounds!

But i have to say the 'canned' AI responses offline are irritating - like during a high-speed bounce from up and under - the blind spot - that the AI planes automatically break into a downward defensive spiral/barrel roll JUST before you reach your set convergance range (or is it just me?)!!

But as i plan to play only online (as soon as i think i'm good enough to survive on a decent server) then the sounds are the big one for me...

[CrazySchmidt]

I had to go with Immortal bomber gunners, although the rendering distance does bother me also.

But as has already been said, the IL-2 series is by far the best WWII sim on the market and has been for years, regardless of these minor problems.

Cheers, CrazySchmidt. :)

[HanneG]

Bomber gunners here too, though I don't think they're immortal, just super-athletes who can shoot from the hip when they should barely be able to breath.

Sounds have never bothered me, at least they're consistent, if somewhat boring.

Better rendering of distant objects and scaling for higher resolutions should be a given.

AI I don't care about, it will always be predictable and flawed.

[Sim]

Sound - since original Il2 they has been horrible. I've changed systems, sound cards, speakers (always top brand) and I really don't see change of quality. I know Oleg multiple times on multiple forums said that it is 'our' settings, speakers, sound cards.... but if so many people have problems, it maybe a good idea to adapt to them, not them to 'horrible sound engine'

IMHO.

[HFC_Dolphin]

planespotter pretty much said what I would say myself as well sdcruz.

IMHO, the lack of a campaign map is the biggest problem.
People like to think that they can do the difference in war with their actions.
So far, Oleg has stated that it is unrealistic to think that a pilot can change the course of a campaign and I agree.
But why not giving us more options for the whole army of our preference?
Why not combining single flying with some strategy touch?
So many of us are lovers of strategy and besides IL-2 we play strategy games like Hearts of Iron & Civ4 and we would love to have the option to fly a campaign where we'll have something more to think besides "kill those easy-to-kill-AIs".

I've been playing this game since its release and believe it or not I've tried many times to like its offline mode. It was just impossible. And I just run to HL to fly in one of the online wars where I have stats that matter (since I compete with other human) and some map where I see the results of each mission I'm flying.

If BoB provides a good offline mode, it can double its clients IMO.