Please Oleg, improve the sounds !

[IbnSolmyr]

You Oleg and team have all my respect and admiration for your kind work, but please, improve some of the sounds that aren't decent comparing in all the wonderful work you did with ClOD.

Even 3rd parties did a lot better in Il-2 ! For instance :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwatLvmWbRc

At this moment, some videos show us that we can start a V12 exactly as we start our cars' 1L 4 cylinders... or even a lawn mower ! It's really a shame. :(
Exterior sounds simply are exactly the same ones as in the stock Il-2, from about 10 years now !... Unbelievable !

Sounds are very important in a simulation, so please, improve all this stuff as quick as possible ! (before clouds, and even dynamic campaign..)

I know we are a lot to think what is said here. This criticism isn't a bad thing, but wants to simply be constructive, in order to get the best that we wait for... :)

Regards,
Solmyr.

[LukeFF]

How many new posts and threads about this topic do we really need? :rolleyes:

[Hecke]

How many new posts and threads about this topic do we really need? :rolleyes:

As long as the devs don't get it, we still need more.

[JG52Uther]

Sounds are the least of their problems just now...
Personally,I can live with them,while they sort the rest of the game.

[JG27_PapaFly]

Don't care much about external sounds, I only get to listen to them in tracks. Thank god the in cockpit sounds are good. If i had to choose between better external sounds and better frame rate i'd go for the latter.

BTW is the sonar finally gone? You know, the ability to hear approaching planes while in the cockpit. That is a huge pain in the ass with IL2FB.

[Romanator21]

While Jafa's sounds are generally nice, in some situations they unfortunately have the strange effect of sounding like someone who is blowing a raspberry.

To be honest, I rather like stock Il-2 sounds, but I guess it depends on the sound card or speakers?

But I would hold back any comments on CoD sounds for now. I doubt they're final or are just buggy (sound in outside view is the same regardless of viewing position, which is strange considering that this is not the case in Il-2:'46)

[dali]

I think it is the publisher to be blamed, it seems that ubicrap is only collecting money from sales, but have contributed a horse's figue to the development...

[the Dutchman]

I never heared them better than in Jane's WWII fighters!
And how many years ago is that?
I think (external) sounds are very important,it's a SIM after all!
If you've ever been to an airshow you know that every warbird has it's own destinctive sound,it all add's to the reality feel.....exactly what a sim should do!

[Tree_UK]

It has to be said that the modded IL2 sounds do knock the spots off the CLOD sounds at the moment. Im sure Oleg could borrow some easily enough.

[the Dutchman]

How hard is it to send out 1 or 2 man with soundrecording equipment and record them from the source itself,i think that's what A2A simulations did?
If third party modders can find them what's the problem?

[proton45]

I'm not saying that the present solution in the "Cliffs of Dover" engine is ideal...but I don't think its as bad a solution as some people make it out to be...Many natural effects like the doppler effect...or engine damage...or echo/reverb effects (like taxi out of a shed into open air), can not be adequately delivered by sound files alone...The initial impact of a pre-recorded engine start up is outstanding, but what about all the "little" details of reality, like how sound waves travel and change (decay,reflect,shift) as the sound source moves around the "player"? What about engine damage, or changes in RPM? I have heard some convincing work done by "outside" modders for the "IL2 1946" game engine. But I don't think that, that solution is perfect either...I'm always hearing the microphone compression, and sound file looping to match RPM ect...its good work, very good even. But it always sounds like a recording to me...it doesn't "sound live".

[Oldschool61]

You Oleg and team have all my respect and admiration for your kind work, but please, improve some of the sounds that aren't decent comparing in all the wonderful work you did with ClOD.

Even 3rd parties did a lot better in Il-2 ! For instance :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwatLvmWbRc

At this moment, some videos show us that we can start a V12 exactly as we start our cars' 1L 4 cylinders... or even a lawn mower ! It's really a shame. :(
Exterior sounds simply are exactly the same ones as in the stock Il-2, from about 10 years now !... Unbelievable !

Sounds are very important in a simulation, so please, improve all this stuff as quick as possible ! (before clouds, and even dynamic campaign..)

I know we are a lot to think what is said here. This criticism isn't a bad thing, but wants to simply be constructive, in order to get the best that we wait for... :)

Regards,
Solmyr.

Your worried about sounds when there is major stuttering and fps issues

[Blackdog_kt]

How hard is it to send out 1 or 2 man with soundrecording equipment and record them from the source itself,i think that's what A2A simulations did?
If third party modders can find them what's the problem?

They told us why they didn't do it this way in some posts during the previous months.The problem with this is not so much having to fly expensive equipment overseas on a chartered flight (although it can be expensive as well), but most of all that getting someone to run an engine that's now a very expensive to run and maintain museum piece with no readily available spare parts is going to cost a lot of money.

Thinking about it, some engines are pretty rare (especially German ones) and their total hourly cost (operation and maintenance) could be higher than that of a modern engine used in a modern general aviation aircraft. Now imagine how many hours are needed to get accurate recordings across the entire RPM range or rent a ride on a flying warbird to capture the propeller and wind noise at high speed.
Finally, nobody's going to let you run a DB601 at WEP when they use reduced power settings on flying 109s to preserve engine life, probably not even if you paid a good amount of money.

I'm not saying what we're getting is optimal, but i can certainly understand why it is the way it is. If i won in a lottery or something i'd rent a charter flight, fly their sound engineers to some museums and pay for the expenses of running the engines, but sadly i haven't won in one yet :grin:

Also, this:

I'm not saying that the present solution in the "Cliffs of Dover" engine is ideal...but I don't think its as bad a solution as some people make it out to be...Many natural effects like the doppler effect...or engine damage...or echo/reverb effects (like taxi out of a shed into open air), can not be adequately delivered by sound files alone...The initial impact of a pre-recorded engine start up is outstanding, but what about all the "little" details of reality, like how sound waves travel and change (decay,reflect,shift) as the sound source moves around the "player"? What about engine damage, or changes in RPM? I have heard some convincing work done by "outside" modders for the "IL2 1946" game engine. But I don't think that, that solution is perfect either...I'm always hearing the microphone compression, and sound file looping to match RPM ect...its good work, very good even. But it always sounds like a recording to me...it doesn't "sound live".

A recording is a recording, it's not dynamic. To get a truly believable effect we'd have to spend hours upon hours of recording in very small increments across the entire RPM range, which means even more expenses.

A modern turboprop can push an aircraft's hourly operating cost to $400 or so. I'm going by memory here from the Cessna Caravan manuals, you can find them online, and that one uses the ubiquitous Pratt and Whitney PT-6 series which is a much simpler engine and probably has less moving parts than the high powered pistons found in warbirds, it's reliable as hell and has readily available spare part supply and servicing. I'm just guessing here, but i think that running a rare WW2 engine could probably cost at least $1000 per hour total (fuel, servicing, inspections, etc).

[Fafnir_6]

It seems to me that there are two camps here. One group is happy with the stock in-game sounds of IL-2 while the other desires and pushes for the modded sounds from the likes of Jafa and Tiger33 (this has been true since the beginning of Il-2 modding). I belong to the latter group but I can respect the viewpoint of the stock purists. It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that you cannot easily reconcile these two camps. In light of this, I say that the Cliffs of Dover devs allow for modded sounds to be selected by the user (thanks Azimech for the idea). Include the the stock sounds as default for the purists but have a switch in the sound setup that will make the game look to an alternate(user-defined?) sound sample folder. Standardize the file structure of this alternate location to make sound modding easy and let the users decide how their game sounds. Sound files will not compromise the integrity of the game as far as gameplay is concerned. I believe now that this is the only way to make everyone happy and that by doing this, the sounds issue that began with IL-2 in 2001 will disappear forever. I hope this approach is taken by both the Cliffs of Dover devs and by DT for the original IL-2.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[kimosabi]

Actually, if cost is their only reason to why they haven't gotten some realistic sounds, they must be flat broke lol. As for stock IL-2 sounds, that's for pigheaded laymen IMO. I can make stock IL-2 engine sounds myself every single day when I go for my daily morning #2.

I like your thinking fafnir. Can't please us all with one solution and I can't kill each and every "IL-2 purist" either. :D

[T}{OR]

This is from my (original series) IL2 experience and what I was able to see/hear from the YT videos:

There is no denying that both the original and latest IL2 sounds aren't accurate. They don't sound like the Merlin or Daimler Benz engines we are used to hearing from YT videos and flight shows.

However... when put in the game context - to follow engine physics, damage, fly-byes etc, they do the job far better than any other moded sounds I've ever heard. In other words, they serve their purpose and get the job done. Moded sounds are great, and have come a long way. But still not up to the level they should be IMO.

Now, mind you I am sort of an audiophile (audiophile wannabe would probably suite me better :D), so having these stock sounds is in no way satisfactory from my point of view. But, with what they had - not having big enough budget to fly their sound engineer to UK and record them, they did a darn good job. At least the in cockpit sound (engine) is very much believable.

[Fafnir_6]

Actually, if cost is their only reason to why they haven't gotten some realistic sounds, they must be flat broke lol. As for stock IL-2 sounds, that's for pigheaded laymen IMO. I can make stock IL-2 engine sounds myself every single day when I go for my daily morning #2.

I like your thinking fafnir. Can't please us all with one solution and I can't kill each and every "IL-2 purist" either. :D

Thank you for your support :). Credit for the idea should go to Azimech, though (he dreamt it up as a possible addition in a future DT patch for the original IL-2). The idea may also help focus Maddox games' limited resources on coding (fixing stutters, framerates, 64-bit exe, etc) rather than cooking up new sound files. Something DOES need to be done about the sounds, regardless of where you sit in the debate. A quick look at the number of outraged posts about the sounds in CoD confirms that this is an important issue for many of us.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[kimosabi]

This is from my (original series) IL2 experience and what I was able to see/hear from the YT videos:

There is no denying that both the original and latest IL2 sounds aren't accurate. They don't sound like the Merlin or Daimler Benz engines we are used to hearing from YT videos and flight shows.

However... when put in the game context - to follow engine physics, damage, fly-byes etc, they do the job far better than any other moded sounds I've ever heard. In other words, they serve their purpose and get the job done. Moded sounds are great, and have come a long way. But still not up to the level they should be IMO.

Now, mind you I am sort of an audiophile (audiophile wannabe would probably suite me better :D), so having these stock sounds is in no way satisfactory from my point of view. But, with what they had - not having big enough budget to fly their sound engineer to UK and record them, they did a darn good job. At least the in cockpit sound (engine) is very much believable.

~S~ Thor,

I don't really feel that stock IL-2 sounds is capable of more than a doppler effect and giving you a rough idea on what your rpm you're running. Even the rpm sounds way too high than what you'd actually experience in a big a$$ V12 running at 3000rpm maximum and usually 2000rpm.

Here's one of the reasons to why I swear to guys like Jafaem when I play the game. The DB600 soundpack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBwSYxhJllQ

I'm sure I myself will find the in cockpit sounds in CoD believeable to some extent but compared to the visuals and FM/DM in CoD, from what I've seen from released in game vids, sounds are lagging far behind quality wise.

[T}{OR]

Fair enough, I will admit I do not have the latest installment of moded sounds. ;)

This video really tells the story. About CoD, I will have to test it before making any judgment. YT videos really aren't a good comparison.

[proton45]

Also, this:



A recording is a recording, it's not dynamic. To get a truly believable effect we'd have to spend hours upon hours of recording in very small increments across the entire RPM range, which means even more expenses.


Is that the only way?

I wonder if their might be a way to digitally model each of the engine sounds more accurately? I don't hate the idea of synthesized engine sounds...I just think that they could have spent some more time modeling the various characteristics of each engine.

[GOA_Potenz]

let us have an option for modded sounds

[SlipBall]

I have not heard the sounds as of yet, and I hope that I will like them. I always enjoyed the sounds in the original IL2 release, but maybe there is just too much other things going on, so sounds suffer in cod:(

[Chivas]

I will wait until I hear the sounds direct from the game dvd thru to my speakers before passing judgement. I'm not sure of the quality of the sound from the videos but those sounds are clearly not the same as the old IL-2 sounds.

[IbnSolmyr]

I will wait until I hear the sounds direct from the game dvd thru to my speakers before passing judgement. I'm not sure of the quality of the sound from the videos but those sounds are clearly not the same as the old IL-2 sounds.

Depends on what you talk about : if you talk about exterior engine sounds, it's false : they're exactly the same ones. But yes, the in-cockpit sounds are a lot better than in stock Il-2, they're rather good, even if they pretty lack of subtle differences. But in general, engine sounds aren't as good as we could hope, and really without being too demanding.

[Chivas]

Depends on what you talk about : if you talk about exterior engine sounds, it's false : they're exactly the same ones. But yes, the in-cockpit sounds are a lot better than in stock Il-2, they're rather good, even if they pretty lack of subtle differences. But in general, engine sounds aren't as good as we could hope, and really without being too demanding.

I suppose the outside engine sounds could sound the same to you, they don't to me, either way all the engine sounds have been built from scratch for the new game engine. Are you basing your assumption of the sounds on the game or videos of the game? There could be a big difference depending on the quality of your sound system. That why I'm waiting to hear the sounds on my system direct from the game software.

[Richie]

For me the internal sounds aren't bad at all. It probably will be no problem to fix the external sounds of those fighters. Cockpit is actually not too load in a 109 probably because the stacks are down at your feet.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50JXKxMLyUc

[the Dutchman]

I think the bottom line is that it CAN be done,examples enough,so there is just no excuse..........other then it didn't have their full attention,sorry.

[csThor]

The problem most of you don't see is that professional sound capturing for a business project costs sh*tloads of money. First you need to have the sound equipment (which isn't cheap to begin with), then you need people who own the original engines and are willing to run them in the capturing setup across the whole performance band (which is unlikely today due to the rarity of these engines) and then you need to get your people to the aircraft in question (which are, inconveniently, spread across the globe) ... All of that will surely cost a 6-digit sum which is probably the same amount of money which using other people's sound samples will cost.

It's not just a question of getting "better" sound samples. It's all about logistics and money ...

[fireflyerz]

Regardless of all the mumbo jumbo , its just no longer acceptable , the porked mod sites and huge downloads of sound packs is proof enough , internal sounds remind me of FS and the externals are at least on the fighters the same(and yes I have the game already) as of old.

[Tvrdi]

I suppose the outside engine sounds could sound the same to you, they don't to me, either way all the engine sounds have been built from scratch for the new game engine. Are you basing your assumption of the sounds on the game or videos of the game? There could be a big difference depending on the quality of your sound system. That why I'm waiting to hear the sounds on my system direct from the game software.

Chivas, external engine sounds are clearly just a slight better than stock IL2. But I agree with you, once I try them on MY PC I will make a final judgement....altough, internal engine sounds are awesome...modded external sounds in IL2 are fantastic. Dunno why they cant be used in COD. Ofcourse will be with MOD ON but why not in official version of the game. Now in IL2 with mods I can clearly distinguish who is flyin near me just by engine sound...its very cool isnt it?

[Romanator21]

By the way guys, be sure to listen with headphones. The sound you hear in the CoD videos is drastically different due to the binaural sound engine.

[Feathered_IV]

Luckily the sounds in-cockpit are acceptable enough. Excellent opportunity for the arcade players to get used to closed pit flying.

[ZaltysZ]

Well, from outside BF109 in CoD sounds like BF109 in old IL2. Hurricane sounds the same (like BF109 in old IL2). Surely, if they wanted to use old sounds, then Hurricane would probably sound like Hurricane in IL2, not like BF109. Placeholders?

[Blackdog_kt]

Is that the only way?

I wonder if their might be a way to digitally model each of the engine sounds more accurately? I don't hate the idea of synthesized engine sounds...I just think that they could have spent some more time modeling the various characteristics of each engine.

It's not the only way of course (in case you didn't notice from my posting habbits, i happen to like options even if i don't use them, someone else might and that's good for the community ;) ).
That is another can of worms though, since to get really accurate synthesized sounds would either need:

a) A dedicated engine sound module that does CPU crunching physics work on the background in real-time according to what's going on in the game. This is obviously the ideal solution, but i doubt we have the hardware to run it on top of everything else that's inside CoD.

People said that on the current, un-patched Russian version the complex engine management has a noticeable effect on the performance of the game. Add up to 300 individually damageable components per aircraft, some of which with inter-dependencies to simulate sequential failures, and it's getting up to a lot of processing load.
I've actually seen something like this on a youtube vid, the player scores hits on a spitfire, the spit starts emitting smoke and the left side exhaust stacks emit orange flames (ie, the left cylinders only are running rough with too much fuel in the mixture). After a few seconds the Spit starts streaming another couple of smoke trails, catches on fire and goes into the Channel.

This is obviously going to tax our PCs a lot. On the other hand, i do believe that this is the optimal solution in the long run. Maybe it's something to keep in mind for the future.

b) Doing the same thing as above but only for engine sounds and not in real-time. In such a case, this would entail coding that sound engine as a dedicated stand-alone platform and using it as a sample creation suite.
This would not be completely dynamic, but it would allow the developers to record accurate engine sounds that would be up to the job in most regards and integrate them into the game by replacing the previous sound-set.

Essentially, it's like making a dynamic engine for the engine sounds but using only the output sound files over a range of predetermined conditions. It's a good compromise overall but once again, it's specialized work that would take quite some time to develop.

However, keep reading if you want, because there are other ways too that will enable the users themselves to take the matter in their own hands ;)

It seems to me that there are two camps here. One group is happy with the stock in-game sounds of IL-2 while the other desires and pushes for the modded sounds from the likes of Jafa and Tiger33 (this has been true since the beginning of Il-2 modding). I belong to the latter group but I can respect the viewpoint of the stock purists. It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that you cannot easily reconcile these two camps. In light of this, I say that the Cliffs of Dover devs allow for modded sounds to be selected by the user (thanks Azimech for the idea). Include the the stock sounds as default for the purists but have a switch in the sound setup that will make the game look to an alternate(user-defined?) sound sample folder. Standardize the file structure of this alternate location to make sound modding easy and let the users decide how their game sounds. Sound files will not compromise the integrity of the game as far as gameplay is concerned. I believe now that this is the only way to make everyone happy and that by doing this, the sounds issue that began with IL-2 in 2001 will disappear forever. I hope this approach is taken by both the Cliffs of Dover devs and by DT for the original IL-2.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

This is the best of both worlds. I too fly IL2 with mods and i would like a way to change what's activated from within the game instead of running separate versions.

I think the only think we need to do is wait. They will be releasing an SDK for Cliffs of Dover a few months down the line and everyone will be able to create new content. This is part of the "open to mods" strategy they adopted and their effort to create a 3rd party industry around their engine.

The way i see it, the optimal way to handle this would be to have a mods folder within the main installation folder, where each mod is placed in it's own sub-folder.
Then, mods could be made server-enforceable just like difficulty settings by using a very simple and streamlined software logic. Having an on/off switch for every single mod (ie, the way it is for realism options) would be a very time consuming task to do and compile updated lists for.

Instead, it could work like this: all mods off unless mod_name=(any of the server's compiled list of accepted mods).

This means that i could just install whatever i want in that mods folder and still fly on all servers with one installation/version.

This could also help loads in managing scripts if the scripting tools (confirmed in the manual but not yet released because the documentation is not ready yet) end up getting used a lot by the community: you could have scripts that would be giving too much of an unfair advantage in multi-player but be fine for single player, scripts for arcade-type gameplay (like all-seeing radar) and scripts for full-real gameplay.

Imagine for example being able to code a separate command menu to manage your AI crew in bombers (just like the TAB radio menu we have, but for AI inside our own aircraft). You might be able to instruct your gunners on how to fire (fire at close/long/medium range, fire for effect or only take aimed shots, etc), have your navigator give you steering instructions and ETA based on current speed for user selectable waypoints on the fly, or calculate endurance and range based on your current power settings and fuel on board, have your crewmen call out contacts, etc.

Overall, i believe things are looking good, we just need to wait for the SDK release and its documentation.

[Fafnir_6]

Cool! I was unaware of the release of a SDK. That's for the info. I have a lot of hope that the sounds will be addressed with this now :).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[Chivas]

Chivas, external engine sounds are clearly just a slight better than stock IL2. But I agree with you, once I try them on MY PC I will make a final judgement....altough, internal engine sounds are awesome...modded external sounds in IL2 are fantastic. Dunno why they cant be used in COD. Ofcourse will be with MOD ON but why not in official version of the game. Now in IL2 with mods I can clearly distinguish who is flyin near me just by engine sound...its very cool isnt it?

Nothing annoys me more in IL-2 than people hearing me as I close on their six.

[Tvrdi]

Nothing annoys me more in IL-2 than people hearing me as I close on their six.

hehe but you can hear them with stock sounds also so the topic is about quality/sounding of external engine sounds not about should they be noticable or not, when someone is on your 6. Thats another topic.

[Chivas]

hehe but you can hear them with stock sounds also so the topic is about quality/sounding of external engine sounds not about should they be noticable or not, when someone is on your 6. Thats another topic.

You brought it up. You said you like not only hearing them but what type they were. ;)

[Fearfactor]

Don't care much about external sounds, I only get to listen to them in tracks. Thank god the in cockpit sounds are good. If i had to choose between better external sounds and better frame rate i'd go for the latter.

BTW is the sonar finally gone? You know, the ability to hear approaching planes while in the cockpit. That is a huge pain in the ass with IL2FB.The sounds in the mods for IL2 are much better than the stock game and that includes the external sounds. And I just did a frame rate test using the Black Death track, one for stock 4.101 and one for UP2.01 and the both the average and max frames were actually better for UP2.01! I had vertical sync forced off. The min frames was a little better for stock game at 57, UP was 55.

So great sounds don't necessarily mean a significant performance hit.

[Fafnir_6]

The sounds in the mods for IL2 are much better than the stock game and that includes the external sounds. And I just did a frame rate test using the Black Death track, one for stock 4.101 and one for UP2.01 and the both the average and max frames were actually better for UP2.01! I had vertical sync forced off. The min frames was a little better for stock game at 57, UP was 55.

So great sounds don't necessarily mean a significant performance hit.

Indeed. The stock sound samples are simply replaced by new ones. No added processing power required (provided things like sampling rate are the same between the sounds).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[Tvrdi]

OK they are using their samples for engine sounds (external) which they think are ok..But the question is why are they almost identical to stock IL2 external sounds. All the planes sounds similar in flight. In il2 with soundmod we can clearly distinguish merlins from DBs etc...such sounds are clearly more convincing and more like the real thing....and cool....I know that external sounds were the least important in develompent of COD but it was the weakest spot of original IL2...sounds are important
What is odd to me, they made completely new in-cockpit engine sounds which are very very good and left external sounds almost unchanged compared to original IL2 (at least they sound almost identical).
This is not complaining...just, I was hoping they would make more effort on sounds not only in cockpit but also outside cockpit...flybys and headons have another dimension in IL2 with sound mods ON....ofcourse there are bad examples of external sounds in sound-mods in IL2, like the sound of Hellcat engine which sounds like quiet filtered washing-machine...

[Sternjaeger]

there are clever ways to get around the problem: you can overlap different recordings at different RPMs, all you need is an idle, a 50% and a full throttle.
Considering the limited number of planes in CoD at the moment and the availability of recorded engine sounds available today, it's completely unjustifiable not to have them ingame.

Same goes for machinegun sounds and that horrible "submarine creak" going on when pulling too many Gs. Maddox Games should pay attention to these things, just like the quality of their textures, which I'm sorry but

1) it's low resolution compared to what we see in other sims

2) it's (and I'm sorry for who's behind it) not up to the current standards. We have way more talented skinners out there who enhanced the quality of our old IL-2 incredibly.

[Blackdog_kt]

To be honest, i don't know why everyone focuses on cosmetic improvements.

Sure, sounds and graphics are important to me too, but that's the "make-up" and not the "person": if the girl under the make-up is not looking good on her own, no amount of plaster and paint will make her attractive :-P

What i'm trying to say is, we'll be getting an SDK in a few months to do whatever we want, so why worry?

People want better skins? They can make some.

People want different sounds? They will be able to make some.

People want improved FM/DM and complex engine management? Well, if that's not already in the game people are just about f*cked, because they CAN'T make some of that on their own.

That's why i'm glad the developers focused on the foundation and left the cosmetic details (which would be endlessly debated anyway) for us to deal with ;)

[Tvrdi]

To be honest, i don't know why everyone focuses on cosmetic improvements.

Sure, sounds and graphics are important to me too, but that's the "make-up" and not the "person": if the girl under the make-up is not looking good on her own, no amount of plaster and paint will make her attractive :-P

What i'm trying to say is, we'll be getting an SDK in a few months to do whatever we want, so why worry?

People want better skins? They can make some.

People want different sounds? They will be able to make some.

People want improved FM/DM and complex engine management? Well, if that's not already in the game people are just about f*cked, because they CAN'T make some of that on their own.

That's why i'm glad the developers focused on the foundation and left the cosmetic details (which would be endlessly debated anyway) for us to deal with ;)

cosmetic? hell no...its immersion

[1337Avi80R]

Imagine a NASCAR Racing game with the cars sounding like Go-Karts...
"Incredible attention to detail" doesn't stop at the sound department in my opinion. We need some "earcandy" too. ;)
Why does Battlefield Bad Company 2 posses this extreme immersive battlefield atmosphere? Because it sounds right!

[Tvrdi]

Imagine a NASCAR Racing game with the cars sounding like Go-Karts...
"Incredible attention to detail" doesn't stop at the sound department in my opinion. We need some "earcandy" too. ;)
Why does Battlefield Bad Company 2 posses this extreme immersive battlefield atmosphere? Because it sounds right!

nothing to add...

[Blackdog_kt]

cosmetic? hell no...its immersion

Of course it is and it's important for everyone, me included. But immersion is not only in graphics and sounds, that's what i'm trying to say.

Immersion is also in having a constant sandbox-type online mode, being able to get an idea of how difficult it really was to fly these planes (FM/DM and CEM), having the defensive guns on a bomber interact with the airflow and many other things too that have been included in this sim, some of them for the first time in the history of flight simulation games.

The difference between all these kinds of immersion is not how important each one is, because i can honestly say that i can't put one above the other.
The only difference is that we can improve some aspects of it ourselves, but not all of it.
So, it just makes sense for the developers to focus first on what the community can't improve on their own. ;)

[Sternjaeger]

yeah but this is not some kind of cottage farm project, it's a software house which is in serious need of a better project managing. There is no excuse, it's obvious that the product is not complete, and if they really want to go to the next level they need to change their attitude and mentality.

They boasted about the binaural recording of the audio and then what happened with it? Bear in mind that most of the warbirds owners are normally cool with having a software house go and record sound, take pictures and what not, and it's not gonna cost them a fortune to do, they just don't care about these details cos "someone" deems them as "secondary", and the result is that they release this half formed products, which have enormous potential, but they don't deliver a full punch in term of quality.

I'm sorry Oleg and team, I do respect the work that you've done, but as I've said before you need to understand that you need better PR and above all a superior attention to "cosmetics", period.

[kimosabi]

Imagine a NASCAR Racing game with the cars sounding like Go-Karts...
"Incredible attention to detail" doesn't stop at the sound department in my opinion. We need some "earcandy" too. ;)
Why does Battlefield Bad Company 2 posses this extreme immersive battlefield atmosphere? Because it sounds right!

Oh hell yes. Spot on. BC2 is a great example.

In addition I'd like to say that there are three key ingredients to make a fully immersive simulator. 1. Visuals 2. Interaction and 3. Sound. Visuals as in graphics, interaction as in controllability/physics/FM etc. and Sound as in...lol sound. If either of those are too far out, your immersion suffers. That's just how it is. You mainly use three senses when you play a computer simulator. If I hear stock IL-2 sounds tomorrow when I fire up my game, I gotta admit, I will be a bit disappointed. No doubt. Sound is not "cosmetic" in a computer game. If it was, why are we using speakers/headphones if it's not that important?

[Trumper]

:( Are we saying Merlins don't sound like Merlins.I can only live with that IF it will be modded in the future:(
Sounds are one of our strongest senses so to say it's not important is silly.

[Blackdog_kt]

Again, i'm not saying it's not important. I'm just saying that for me (as in, my personal opinion and i'm fine if people disagree with it) it's not more important than other aspects but only equal, that's all really. And since

a) for whatever reason they couldn't do everything on time
b) the community can improve feature set A
c) the community can't improve feature set B

it makes sense for the developers to focus on B first. By the time they get around to fixing A, there will be enough community ideas and interaction on how to do it.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, all i'm saying is that different things hold a different amount of importance to different people. It's like talking about a cube, if one side is missing it's not a cube anymore but some people prefer one side to the other, even if they are all equally important :grin:

[proton45]

Imagine a NASCAR Racing game with the cars sounding like Go-Karts...
"Incredible attention to detail" doesn't stop at the sound department in my opinion. We need some "earcandy" too. ;)
Why does Battlefield Bad Company 2 posses this extreme immersive battlefield atmosphere? Because it sounds right!

"Battlefield, Bad Company 2" sounded great....but it was also a little "Hollywood" sounding.

[Trumper]

:) Hi Blackdog_kt, i wasn't having a crack at you :oops: sorry if it came across to you as such, apologies :)I am just frustrated really because this sim has been under development for so long and yet sound does seem to be unimportant ,or maybe at the moment less important.
I am fortunate to live within 20 minutes of many Spitfires,some p51's and a Hurricane and believe me there is nothing that makes people look up quicker than the sound of a Merlin engine in the area.
I hope it is on the agenda for the future although i have my doubts unless it is from external sources.
S :)

[bf-110]

Well,thankfully,Storm of War sounds are totally different from IL2 ones.

[SlipBall]

I'm very surprised that so many are disappointed with the sounds, I sure hope that they will work for me. Development had a full plate before them, but after FB sound reviews, I would have expected that a lot of attention would be devoted to the sounds...go figure:grin:

[Blackdog_kt]

:) Hi Blackdog_kt, i wasn't having a crack at you :oops: sorry if it came across to you as such, apologies :)I am just frustrated really because this sim has been under development for so long and yet sound does seem to be unimportant ,or maybe at the moment less important.
I am fortunate to live within 20 minutes of many Spitfires,some p51's and a Hurricane and believe me there is nothing that makes people look up quicker than the sound of a Merlin engine in the area.
I hope it is on the agenda for the future although i have my doubts unless it is from external sources.
S :)

No offence taken and i'm not going against anyone either on a personal level, i just like trying to defuse situations so we can be calm, get better discussion, ideas and hopefully results in the long run. Here's hoping we do get an even more improved sound module along with the gradual onset of other optimizations ;)

[JumpingHubert]

for me good sound is as important for immersion as graphics. After installing my first soundmod in IL2 i thought: wow....a new game! The new cockpitsounds are good, but far away from the authenticity of the IL2-soundmods.

[MD_Titus]

While Jafa's sounds are generally nice, in some situations they unfortunately have the strange effect of sounding like someone who is blowing a raspberry.

To be honest, I rather like stock Il-2 sounds, but I guess it depends on the sound card or speakers?

But I would hold back any comments on CoD sounds for now. I doubt they're final or are just buggy (sound in outside view is the same regardless of viewing position, which is strange considering that this is not the case in Il-2:'46)

I'm with you on this tbh. The best option to be added to the jsgme was for default sounds. They may not br fantastic, but they are dynamic and represent what is happening in game way better imo. Canned prerecorded samples do nothing for me.

[IbnSolmyr]

Just a word to say that, anyway, what we're waiting for is Oleg or Luthier say to us that they will work hardly to improve all the wrong things about the sounds, and even if there are others concerns, we want to hear this ! (most of us at least...)

[Heliocon]

"Battlefield, Bad Company 2" sounded great....but it was also a little "Hollywood" sounding.

There was 4 or 5 different settings like realistic, film, etc for you to adjust to get the right atmosphere - was incredible. WOP has great music/sound too.

[zauii]

There was 4 or 5 different settings like realistic, film, etc for you to adjust to get the right atmosphere - was incredible. WOP has great music/sound too.

Yep correct, however as DICE themselves even said in their recent dev diary about BF3, the BC2 sounds were far too much hollywood and cinematic, they did indeed sound incredible but it was far from realistic.
One major issue they had with BC2 was the fact that you couldn't distinguish things properly, BF3 has a more realistic(sounds) and much more clean tone to it and ditched that "cinematic" only idea they had for BC2.

[McHilt]

I'm not trying to convince anyone, all i'm saying is that different things hold a different amount of importance to different people. It's like talking about a cube, if one side is missing it's not a cube anymore but some people prefer one side to the other, even if they are all equally important :grin:

:mrgreen:

[kimosabi]

Although the sounds bug me, after trying the game last night, they do indeed have craploads of things to sort out before they go after the bongo drum gun/cannon sounds and universal engines. :grin:

[Qpassa]

Most of the planes sounds like the BF109 in IL2

[katdogfizzow]

You Oleg and team have all my respect and admiration for your kind work, but please, improve some of the sounds that aren't decent comparing in all the wonderful work you did with ClOD.

Even 3rd parties did a lot better in Il-2 ! For instance :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwatLvmWbRc

At this moment, some videos show us that we can start a V12 exactly as we start our cars' 1L 4 cylinders... or even a lawn mower ! It's really a shame. :(
Exterior sounds simply are exactly the same ones as in the stock Il-2, from about 10 years now !... Unbelievable !

Sounds are very important in a simulation, so please, improve all this stuff as quick as possible ! (before clouds, and even dynamic campaign..)

I know we are a lot to think what is said here. This criticism isn't a bad thing, but wants to simply be constructive, in order to get the best that we wait for... :)

Regards,
Solmyr.


That is a "work in progress" video you posted..just FYI. Not a working in-game sound.:rolleyes:

[fireflyerz]

Errr it is working in game just not released yet FYI:rolleyes:

[Hellfire257]

A Merlin that doesn't sound like a Merlin is not a Merlin. How can you insult one of the best sounding engines ever designed in this way? :( There is nothing like the sound of a Merlin at full power! ;)

[Trumper]

A Merlin that doesn't sound like a Merlin is not a Merlin. How can you insult one of the best sounding engines ever designed in this way? :( There is nothing like the sound of a Merlin at full power! ;)
+ 1 million

[Tvrdi]

on top of everything in IL2 you have different (but ugly) default sounds for different planes..in COD all sounds like Me109 from IL2...external sounds I mean..

[BadgerSmedly]

The sounds are quite subtle. I'm using headphones and just whacked up the volume - sounded heaps better, seriously! :grin:

[Tvrdi]

Guys I just heard from Oleg (answered on PM). There will be completely new external sounds in the next patch. They didnt get in time for the initial release. Good news.

[TheSwede]

Guys I just heard from Oleg (answered on PM). There will be completely new external sounds in the next patch. They didnt get in time for the initial release. Good news.

I hope this is not some kind of crude April Fools comment?! ;)

I really really hope that we have place holders in this current version.

I cant imagine Oleg and CO has gone to the extreme with all the details and forgot to even try to add different sounds for the fighters.

[Tvrdi]

I hope this is not some kind of crude April Fools comment?! ;)

I really really hope that we have place holders in this current version.

I cant imagine Oleg and CO has gone to the extreme with all the details and forgot to even try to add different sounds for the fighters.

it is a crude 1st april joke....

[sigur_ros]

All sound like single engine cessna, even twin engine. :(