Modded my X52 pro - it's another stick!!

[albx]

Hi, just yesterday I decided to mod my X52 pro, the classic magnet reposition, and, wow, it's another stick!! I didn't liked how the X52 was (exponential, less sensible at the center and more when at extremes), now is linear and precise like never seen! I suggest to everybody own this stick to do it, you can find alot of info about this mod on internet. :-)
Now with a little tweaked joystick's curve in IL-2 it's a pleasure to fly.

[=WF=RAW]

actually i did more brutal mod with replacing all mechanics to full metal construction. now it precise like a surgeon's scalpel. all lufts disappeared. every millimetral move of stick have response from aircraft. all movements now smooth and stable at all positions. modded x52 is best stick i ever seen. but not the factory one.

[Dano]

A link would be nice...

[albx]

A link would be nice...

it's a topic in spanish

http://www.ala13.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=6460

translated
http://translate.google.it/translate?hl=it&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ala13.com%2Fforo%2Fviewtopic.ph p%3Ft%3D6460

and also a video from a guy
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJNiHmEszk

[SEE]

I have a Pro and Std model X52, the latter has the magnet mod and performs far better than my unmodded X52Pro. Definitely well worth carrying out the mod on either of these sticks.

I carried out the mod in a different way than described in most articles so that the position of the hall centre could be easily adjusted for precise centering after the magnets were re-located - calibration is then carried out with the stick fully re-assembled (minus the base cover of course).

[MD_Titus]

i have both, modded the standard version as a practice run, liked the effect but still found the spring too sloppy. so the pro got the same treatment. well worth it and a piece of cake to do. don't forget to use blutack rather than glue though, you'll have to jiggle them things around to get them centred!

[albx]

i have both, modded the standard version as a practice run, liked the effect but still found the spring too sloppy. so the pro got the same treatment. well worth it and a piece of cake to do. don't forget to use blutack rather than glue though, you'll have to jiggle them things around to get them centred!

yep, used a sort of bi-adesive, but no centering problem, it self centered when unplugged and then plugged again, is perfectly centered. The only problem i had with one axe (X) was the limit, it didn't reached the most right limit. After i reduced the distance sensor-magnet it was perfect. Also tried joytester, and i could finally draw a perfect circle, like Giotto :D, before it was like a rotated rectangle, most like a diamond... who tried it know what i'm talking about

[Sokol1]

A link would be nice...

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=17437&highlight=sokol1&page=3

:)

Radical gimbal MOD, laser cut one:

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=573&start=0

Sokol1

[recoilfx]

This mod is awesome - Once it's done, the x52 standard is more accurate than my MSFFB2. Check out the attached pictures. Its resolution is 11bit(2048steps) vs MSFFB2's 10bit (1024 steps).

Another tricky thing about the standard X52 (don't know about pro), the y-axis is choppy when you pull the stick.

You have to go slow - as you slowly pull, notice the values jump a lot at certain ranges.

The solution is to hold one of the throttle base buttons - for some reason, choppiness is gone when one button is held down. I've soldered the button connection so that it's always on - which means I've lost a button :-\

[jimbop]

actually i did more brutal mod with replacing all mechanics to full metal construction. now it precise like a surgeon's scalpel. all lufts disappeared. every millimetral move of stick have response from aircraft. all movements now smooth and stable at all positions. modded x52 is best stick i ever seen. but not the factory one.

Got any pics? Magnet mod is great but still leaves the loose feeling in the centre. The response is there now but still feels sloppy overall.

[Hunden]

Hi, just yesterday I decided to mod my X52 pro, the classic magnet reposition, and, wow, it's another stick!! I didn't liked how the X52 was (exponential, less sensible at the center and more when at extremes), now is linear and precise like never seen! I suggest to everybody own this stick to do it, you can find alot of info about this mod on internet. :-)
Now with a little tweaked joystick's curve in IL-2 it's a pleasure to fly.

Thanx ended up using the mod and added a plastic spacer under spring works great.:grin:

[recoilfx]

Quick question guys, I'm at work and can't watch the videos...

How much does this mod run? And can it be accomplished by someone with hobbyist skills, but no technical soldering skills? How hard is it to get the parts?

Costs nothing - you don't need to get additional parts either - just a Philips screw driver, some clay putty, a safety pin/needle/paper clip (whatever to push the existing magnets out).

Hobbyist skill is fine, no need to solder. It just requires some patience to align the magnets while the stick is open and connected to the computer. Make sure you have clay putty- they are good for repositioning the magnet.

[LoBiSoMeM]

I don't go talk about the Thrustmaster TM16000M anymore, because people don't like to know that a cheap and all plastic joystick is more precise than their expensive "professional" HOTAS stick...

Keep doing mods in this design crap, the X52 series.

[Tvrdi]

I don't go talk about the Thrustmaster TM16000M anymore, because people don't like to know that a cheap and all plastic joystick is more precise than their expensive "professional" HOTAS stick...

Keep doing mods in this design crap, the X52 series.

hehe exactly....well putted..dont see a point in purchasing sx52 hotas with unprecise and floppy joystick (which can die anytime) just to heavily modify...but of course for current owners mods are welcome...

well....Im keep asking myself for fok sake why nobody manufacture a stick which is not hotas, is precise, with hal sensors and not made out of cheap plastics....and cost less than x52 hotas and a bit more than T16000M......this one paired with used x52 throttle and simped vario pedals would be a best setup ever....ans its really sad that after so many years MS SW FF2 is still the best force feedback stick on the market....how sad is this...I had x52 pro and sold it still fresh...its by far the crappiest piece of gaming equipment I ever owned....now I have used (in fact new as it was never used) Sidewinder precision 2, x52 pro throttle and simped vario usb pro pedals.....

[recoilfx]

I don't go talk about the Thrustmaster TM16000M anymore, because people don't like to know that a cheap and all plastic joystick is more precise than their expensive "professional" HOTAS stick...

Keep doing mods in this design crap, the X52 series.

Lot of people, like me, got their x52 before t16000m was available. Either way, it's a good stick with a flaw that can be easily fixed, much better than TM's cougar debacle.

[jimbop]

Keep doing mods in this design crap, the X52 series.

I have the X52 Pro and couldn't agree with you more. I did the magnet mod using a paperclip support (great improvement, by the way and highly recommended) and became interested so pulled it apart completely to have a look. Four hours later I had re-soldered all the connections in the stick (many were just barely hanging on) and put it back together.

Deeply unimpressed with the internal build quality and will be flogging it off soon for something else before the rubbish internal plastic components fail completely. Far too sloppy in the centre for my liking, too.

[Bearcat]

I am in the process of modding my X-52 like I modded my X-45.. almost done... I started this about 4 months ago and then got sidetracked.. Finally got back to it this weekend. Her's a pic of my old X-45 mod..

http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-45mod_0.jpg
Modded X-45 (R.I.P.)

I'll post pics when I am done...

Sokol you were the inspiration for that X-45 a few years back..

[albx]

I am in the process of modding my X-52 like I modded my X-45.. almost done... I started this almost a year ago and then got sidetracked.. Finally got back to it this weekend. Her's a pic of my old X-45 mod..

http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-45mod_0.jpg

I'll post pics when I am done...

Sokol you were the inspiration for that X-45 a few years back..

very nice, and the stick? what you did for the stick?

[recoilfx]

Why do people dislike sloppy center? I find it necessary for accuracy flying. In fact, I have my spring clipped by zip ties to relief the centering tension so there is less detent when reversing the stick from one direction to another. This + shaft extension makes formation flying so much easier.

[Bearcat]

very nice, and the stick? what you did for the stick?

http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/100_2686_0.JPG

Don't forget.. IL2 will see up to 4 controllers.. I use my X-52 stick as a button bay ... With the X-45 it was a little easier because t was all switches and pots.. The HE sensors on the X-52 and the different makeup of the stick make a more challenging task in some respects but in may ways it is a lot easier because the X-52 circuitry is more modular.. With the X-45 had to make my own connectors.. When I originally got the X-45 I really only wanted the throttle. I had this big old stick sitting on my desk and I figured what the heck.. I might as well use the buttons. One day I was looking at some posts by Sokol @ UBI and I decided to give it a shot.. That stick lasted me until the board went and I couldn't get another one without buying one.. so I figured if was going to buy another stick I might as well buy an X-52.. Then I got tired of the whole big stick on my desk thing again.. so here I am..I'll post pics when I am done..

4.10 makes it even better because more things are now on an axis so I can actually find a use for the three extra axii.. (The X,Y & Z). As it is right now I have rudder trim on the slider throttle slider for my MSFFB2. Aileron & elevator trim are on the wheels on my throttle.. and I always did have zoom on a slider/switch even before the 6DoF mod.. but now I don't have to use a macro so it is on the thumb slider of my throttle.. I think I will assign my rudder trim to the Z pot on the X-52 once I get it done and make the throttle on my MSFFB2 my radiator control and figure out what to do with the two X & Y axii of the X-52 once I figure out how I want to set them up.. Even now I use all the switches and have it set up for 3 modes.. with mode 1 being T/O & Landing, Mode 2 is Combat and Mode 3 is Emergency or lesser used stuff like Bail and drop tanks etc.. It is shaping up pretty well so far... the time between the first two and the third pic is



http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/x-52_details_ref.jpg

http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/x-52_details_0.jpg

update

http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-52_mod.JPG

[klem]

And now the big question for the X52. Where can I get replacement buttons (those little diaphragm ones) and pots for the Throttle?

Saitek have pushed their support out to another outfit and they won't supply parts like Saitek UK used to do.

I have got close on the diaphragm switches, slightly oversize but a possible fit, but those flat profile pots elude me.

Does anyone have an answer to these?

[Bearcat]

Hmmm the throttle doesn't use HE sensors like the stick? I never took it apart.. If my Throttle ever started to go south I am not sure what I would do..

[Sokol1]

X-52/PRO and even X-65F use HALL only in X and Y axis, throttle and rotaries use pots.

If the maker dont offer replacement is difficult change pots, since stick use pots with 60, 90
degrees for course, diameter and length of axis in many cases are specifics.

Fortunately is relative ease replace pots with DIY HALL sensor assembles.

Sokol1

[klem]

Well I have a long standing technical background but its a bit out of date.

1. Can I simply buy the 'right' hall sensor and wire it in in place of the pot or 2. Does it need some kind of interface/driver?

If the answer to question 1 is Yes, where do I get the sensors and magnets?
If the answer to question 2 is Yes, well I guess that's a dead idea :(

[recoilfx]

Well I have a long standing technical background but its a bit out of date.

1. Can I simply buy the 'right' hall sensor and wire it in in place of the pot or 2. Does it need some kind of interface/driver?

If the answer to question 1 is Yes, where do I get the sensors and magnets?
If the answer to question 2 is Yes, well I guess that's a dead idea :(

You need to get a ratiometric, linear hall sensors like Allegro A1302. They come in three prongs just like the pots. Wire them the same way.

Do a google search for Allegro A1302, you should get some places that sell them, I know that Jameco sells them. Magnets should be neodymium - you can pick those up at craft stores such as Michael's.

[klem]

You need to get a ratiometric, linear hall sensors like Allegro A1302. They come in three prongs just like the pots. Wire them the same way.

Do a google search for Allegro A1302, you should get some places that sell them, I know that Jameco sells them. Magnets should be neodymium - you can pick those up at craft stores such as Michael's.

Thanks,

I'm in the UK but I've found a site that sells the magnets and so far one in Thailand that sells the Sensors. Just need to try to find a European/US supplier if I can.

[Sokol1]

Klen,

Actually USB joystick with pots use this as voltage divider: vary voltage from 0 to 5 volts (some, like entry level Saitek and Logitec vary from 0 to 3,5 volts).

HALL sensor work in the same way, vary the voltage from 0 to 5 volts when a magnetic field change in front them.

Like Recoilfix say, HALL like Alegro A1302 come whit 3 prongs - but pay attention in HALL .PDF for where prongs go.

Potentiometers prongs typically are:
+5V - Signal - Gnd (if you need invert response change wires between +5 and Gnd).

Alegro A1302 use this arrange - front view (BTW search for A1321 that is more sensible):

+5V - Gnd - Signal (If you need invert response just turn magnets 180 degrees).

The major difficulty in this assemble is find correct alignment between HALL and magnets, due small size o HALL ~ 3 x 4 x 2 mm.

Basic setup:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7439/hallxmag.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/hallxmag.jpg/)

But this assemble is flexible, you can place HALL in front magnet, between two magnets (ie around Bic pen tube), inside a circular magnet...

Sample o pot convert to HALL:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9369/pothall.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/pothall.jpg/)

Note - If stick circuit aliment pots with +5V volts, you just solder pots wires in HALL (accord HALL .PDF).

If stick circuit only proven 3,5 v to pots (Saitek EVO, Logitech 3D PRO...) you need wire HALL direct to USB +5V and Gnd cable and use additional components (resistor and trim pot) to fool USB circuit that he still handled 3,5v pots. Look here:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3161753/Searchpage/1/Main/323416/Words/crazydoc/Search/true/Re_Need_help_converting_saitek.html#Post3161753

For joystick firmware the change from pots to HALL dont make difference - they continue receiving voltages changes. So no additional software or drives is need.

And finally: HALL is cheap. ;) (But some joystick makers prefer use 0,09U$ pots... Laudable exception is CH that use ~5,00U$ ones.) :)

Sokol1

[SEE]

I cannot see how you can modify an X52 to use Hall sensors for the Throttle Rotaries as direct replacement. The pots are in a very confined area and rely on a gear driven shaft. Has this conversion actually been done succesfully on an X52 and if so are there any pics or threads on how it was carried out?

The pots themselves can be removed and dismantled to expose the carbon track and cleaned with soft tissue using a solvent based switch cleaner. Stripping these sticks often results in wires coming away from the PCB's during removal and dismantling so make notes of the colour codes and connection points if you are contemplating any sort of repair/replacement.

I bought an X52 with faulty MFD (works fine otherwise) as a source of spares for my good one from Ebay, (one went the other night relatively cheap). They do come up from time to time.

[Bearcat]

Well I have a long standing technical background but its a bit out of date.

1. Can I simply buy the 'right' hall sensor and wire it in in place of the pot or 2. Does it need some kind of interface/driver?

If the answer to question 1 is Yes, where do I get the sensors and magnets?
If the answer to question 2 is Yes, well I guess that's a dead idea :(

Yeah me too.. but I am too lazy to do the hard work.. that's why I like the X-52.. it is so modular. On the X-45 I had to do a lot of splicing and soldering.. But nothing like some of the stuff Sokol was doing.. Hey Sokol I found some of those pics on an older drive from some of those X-45 mods you were showing a few years back..

[klem]

Question:
I assume I need diametric Magnets
http://www.first4magnets.com/diametrically-magnetised-magnets-32-c.asp
with North South polarity across the face, not North on one face and South on the other?
Only problem is they are 6mm but they may not be too large.

The Face-Face polarity magnets can be got in 4mm:
http://www.first4magnets.com/f343---4mm-dia-x-1mm-thick-n42-neodymium-magnets---01kg-pull-pack-of-50-a10y-100-p.asp

Also if it helps anyone else I found the Leo Bodnar site fopr the sensors
http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/

[jimbop]

Why do people dislike sloppy center? I find it necessary for accuracy flying. In fact, I have my spring clipped by zip ties to relief the centering tension so there is less detent when reversing the stick from one direction to another. This + shaft extension makes formation flying so much easier.

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll have a go at that. The other X52 mod to increase spring tension is just terrible.

[klem]

Why do people dislike sloppy center? I find it necessary for accuracy flying. In fact, I have my spring clipped by zip ties to relief the centering tension so there is less detent when reversing the stick from one direction to another. This + shaft extension makes formation flying so much easier.

My spring is pretty relaxed after the three years I've had the X52 Pro. I do prefer the lighter feel, it was very heavy to start with.

However I have completed stage 1 and done the video'd magnets mod and I realise now that the standard setup has a mechanical deadzone because the Hall sensor doesn't react to the first millimetre or two of stick movement at the centre. If you couldn't see on the video (it was a bit dark in the stick base), the sensor sits between two opposite polarity magnets which swing towards/away from it depending on which way you move the stick' It changes its output as one of the magnets moves closer to it. The initial travel had no effect on the sensor until one of the magnets got a little closer.

I really like the immediate (modded) response to movement at the centre which I hadn't noticed I didn't get before. Makes for more precise flying (as opposed to dead-zone flying) although it needs close attention when you're aiming etc..

I doubt if I'll do the spring tensioning mod though.

Now to order some magnets and sensors for the Throttle pots mods. I think there'll be enough room on top of the rotary spindles for some bluetack and magnets plus the sensor. I think I'll need diametric magnets as they will revolve under the sensor instead of moving across it. Hmmm.... or I could make a little arm for them to swing on if there's room.

Has anyone tried that yet?

[klem]

Well I stripped the Throttle and there is simply not enough room to get magnets and sensor in to replace the Rotary pots. One pot was a faint possibility but the myriad of wires running over the existing pots makes it a very risky business so I will leave it.

[Bearcat]

Almost done... everything works.. I just have to come up with some kind of cover and some kind of knob for the two Z & Y sliders in the middle. The red switc is the shift button and the two black buttons are triggers 1 & 2. Knob is Z pot. The st6ick is hed to the throttle with velcro so I can take it apart if I have to ever fix anything... I had to expand the base of the stick beyond what I had initially cut.. All the boards are on the top part and all I have to do is disconnect the sliders from the board underneath.


http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-52_1.JPG


http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-52__2.JPG