LCD Monitor or HDTV ???

[Zoom2136]

Hi, I'm looking to upgrade my monitor and I was curious what you guys were using?

I'm thinking of buying a HDTV instead of a LCD? What do you guys think?

I only fly iL2 (and in a few weeks COD).

[Hecke]

an LCD can be a HDTV.
But I would go for FullHD instead.

[=PF=Coastie]

Hey Zoom,

Good to see you around ole buddy.

I do not have an HDTV, but a couple of squad mates do and they love it. I believe they are using 32" LCD TV's.

One thing I can say is this. Be careful how big you go. The bigger the set, the farther the minimum viewing distance. I believe a 42" is something like 6 to 8 feet minimum distance or you will start to see a pixelated picture. A 32" is a bit closer of course.

But they do say that IDing AC and see dots is so much easier.

Let me know if you are looking for a squad. We (AKA Wardogs) are involved in an awesome online campaign with the FA squad. We could always use a great stick such as yourself.

[badfinger]

I'm using a 40" Samsung 60mhrz at 1650x1080, and sit 4' 6" from the screen. It looks great and really helps with the immersion. All I see is screen.

binky9

[scissorss]

I am using a 32" LCD HDTV and it works great, however screen burn in is a problem, for me at least, since the computer is also used for all my web browsing. As far as gaming goes though, I could never go back to a smaller screen.

[Ploughman]

I have a 24 inch LCD monitor and a 37 inch Samsung LCD HDTV, both 1080. Whilst I'm very happy with both products the main pain with the HDTV I find myself sat back enough that my TrackIR has trouble tracking, which is probably solved by getting one of those clip things. Of the two the large screen is more immersive as it's effectively IMAX. I where a pair of reading glasses with the larger screen to spare me any eye strain as I have to sit about 30 inches from it with the TrackIR hat on. Really, if you can spend the money, get the crispest, bestest, biggest screen you can manage that isn't going to tan your face with high energy particles.

[Porksmuggler]

Most large format monitors (32'' or greater) use many of the same panels you would find in a 1080p HDTV.

The most important part when picking is the panel type, do some research here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles.htm

I highly recommend the LG model in my sig.

[scissorss]

And if you do go the HDTV route, make sure you get a 1080p set of course. 1080i will cause seizure invoking flickering.

[fireship4]

The ability to show motion withut shadow is very important, and it is a bit annoying in fast paced scenes - for instance turning your head in game to watch a plane go past in the opposite direction, or even general dogfighting when planes are outlined against the sky.

My monitor is a good one for the money - a BENQ 2200HD - but I notice these issues every so often. My screen runs at 1920*1080@60Hz, I have wondered whether the blurring is due to refresh rate (as opposed to how long pixels take grey to grey), but I can only get 75Hz if I use a dual DVI cable (I think) whereas I currently have single.

[Porksmuggler]

My monitor is a good one for the money - a BENQ 2200HD - but I notice these issues every so often. My screen runs at 1920*1080@60Hz, I have wondered whether the blurring is due to refresh rate (as opposed to how long pixels take grey to grey), but I can only get 75Hz if I use a dual DVI cable (I think) whereas I currently have single.

The panel for your monitor is the following:
BenQ E2200HD 2ms G2G 21.5"WS AU Optronics TN Film (M215HW01 V0)

The panel overdriven to 75Hz may have a negative effect:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/overdrive_at_75hz.htm

The blurring is likely due to the TN panel type, even though it is specified at 2ms. Or possibly your eyes are more sensitive, although there's not much that can be done there, as even the LCDs marketed at 120Hz are not truly 120Hz/fps.

[WTE_Galway]

Depending on your budget there is also the option of a 2500 DPI 27" or 30" LCD.

[Porksmuggler]

Depending on your budget there is also the option of a 2500 DPI 27" or 30" LCD.

2500 DPI? Maybe I do not understand your meaning.

For displays, it's PPI, and 1080p @ 30" is approximately 73 PPI.

http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

[WTE_Galway]

2500 DPI? Maybe I do not understand your meaning.

For displays, it's PPI, and 1080p @ 30" is approximately 73 PPI.

http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

sorry I did not mean DPI that was a mistake.

What I meant to say was many 30"LCD's have resolutions up around 2560 x 1600 which is far better than 1080p.

[Oldschool61]

sorry I did not mean DPI that was a mistake.

What I meant to say was many 30"LCD's have resolutions up around 2560 x 1600 which is far better than 1080p.

Your eye isnt going to percieve a difference between the two resolutions likely. UNless you sit inches away. But your PC frame rate will certainly notice it with much lower fps.

[CharveL]

All monitors pretty much suck right now until they can improve black levels and true refresh rate to 120hz or better affordably.

Hurry the hell up OLED.

[Untamo]

S!

I have a 30" LCD screen with 2560x1600 resolution. I have it about 1m from me and the immersion is great.

The best thing with it is that I don't have to use anti-aliasing. Sure the resolution in itself is a mighty hit on the performance, but the extreme definition is definitely(pun hell, here I come) worth it :)

-Untamo

[Zoom2136]

Hey Zoom,

Good to see you around ole buddy.

I do not have an HDTV, but a couple of squad mates do and they love it. I believe they are using 32" LCD TV's.

One thing I can say is this. Be careful how big you go. The bigger the set, the farther the minimum viewing distance. I believe a 42" is something like 6 to 8 feet minimum distance or you will start to see a pixelated picture. A 32" is a bit closer of course.

But they do say that IDing AC and see dots is so much easier.

Let me know if you are looking for a squad. We (AKA Wardogs) are involved in an awesome online campaign with the FA squad. We could always use a great stick such as yourself.

Thanks for the offer Coastie. Great to hear from you too.
I have little time to fly right now. I'm only flying Ghostskies with the TUSA guys. Great bunch of guys. We could surely use a high flyer like you in Ghostskies!!!

[Zoom2136]

I'm reading up on HDTVs and it seems that some have problems with HDMI and PCs?

I bought a cheap 28" (1920x1200 monitor) from TigerDirect for 250$ a few months ago but I can't see a damm plane with it... It's like flying blind! It's like these plane all blend in perfectly with there surrounding. My previous 24" Acer that died on me did not have that problem. Damm I miss my old 21" NEC CRT :( .

So that got me thinking of a HDTV. Just want to make sure that a get one with good contrast and that the objects (read plane) don't flicker.

I will read up on the site suggested here :).

[fireship4]

Thanks for the info porksmuggler.

[Zoom2136]

Looks that the best HDTVs for gaming are either Panasonic or Sharp.

These are the companies with the less input lag (Sharp being better).

The search continues :)

[MD_Titus]

response times and refresh rates are generally better on monitors i thought?

generally for response time you want to aim for 2ms for gaming. the more hz the better as well.

personally rather happy i managed to hunt down this 22" crt viewsonic a few years ago. a bigger widescreen panel is on the cards once the CoD beastrig as been acquired though.

[Porksmuggler]

response times and refresh rates are generally better on monitors i thought?

Both are dependent on the panel type, and HDTVs use many of the same panels. The very low 1/2ms response times are typically found on low quality TN panels.

Monitors with resolutions of 2560x1600 are really for graphics/design/artist, and not gaming. They typically have much higher response time.

Again, much more correct information is here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm

[Porsche]

I use a 50" Panasonic 3Dtv for gaming. I am very happy with it. Flying is a whole different experience with a screen this large...

[Sim]

I'm gaming on 55 inch 1080P with 240hz. One small problem is that TrackIR doesn't work too well when you're sitting far away from TV.

If you go with HDTV, make sure you buy quality and something with smoothing - read reviews and don't go cheapo! And buy online since price can be 1/3 of what stores ask.

[Blackdog_kt]

Just as a heads-up on response times, it pays to know what kind of response time is measured since they are not all the same.

About 18 months ago i was looking to replace my 17" CRT monitor and did some digging around, apparently the tests quoted are very misleading not because the makers of the monitors lie, but because the benchmarking methods and standards are very lax.

In short, most of the fast response times are black to white times, which means the time it takes for an LCD crystal to switch from fully on (which allows the light from the backlight to go through) to fully off (which results in black colour). Oddly enough, it seems that it takes less time for the crystal to rotate the entire angle than it takes to switch between two intermediate positions. In the case measurements are taken for intermediate positions, this is referred to as a gray to gray response time. On any particular monitor, g2g will be slower than black to white.

Since most monitors already quote 2ms black to white RTs for years, a conclusion is hard to reach. It's better to have a measurement of g2g response time, because it's there that things will vary a lot and help you pick the fastest monitor. Not to mention that in most applications, including gaming, most of the times the monitor will be working with intermediate polarity values and not go from 0% to 100% all the time, so a g2g response time is a much better benchmark overall.

I ended up buying one of the "slow" IPS panels because of their excellent colour quality and viewing angles. It might have as much as a 6ms black to white response time when TN panels have 2ms, but it also has a a very good 8ms g2g response time as well.

I was still worried about potential ghosting so i decided to run a small test.
I fired up a quick mission in QMB and tried to make the image blur. I used my trackIR4 to look around at that time, so i decided to start switching view direction as fast as i could to force the monitor into rapid redraws of the screen and see if any ghosting will occur. My little experiment proved to me that there's no ghosting whatsoever under normal movements.

In fact, the only way i was able to produce a blurry image was when i moved my head left and right for 5 seconds or so non-stop and at a speed that was ridiculously high, i almost got dizzy. Yes, the image did ghost in the end, but that's not an issue if to make it happen you have to move your viewpoint so fast that it makes the game unplayable in the first place.

Also, since i mentioned viewing angles, that's another aspect where specs don't tell the entire truth. Many monitors boast almost 180 degree viewing angles, but when you see them with your own eyes you can often very easily perceive that there's still color/brightness distortion involved when viewing them from the sides or up/down. The reason is simple, as long as the image retains 10% of the head-on brightness, the industry standards allow the manufacturer to quote the angle as being withing the legitimate viewing angle. In practice however, 10% of the total brightness means you can't really see much.

I've been so spoiled with IPS now that i would never consider going to a TN type panel :grin:

[WTE_Galway]

I'm gaming on 55 inch 1080P with 240hz. One small problem is that TrackIR doesn't work too well when you're sitting far away from TV.

If you go with HDTV, make sure you buy quality and something with smoothing - read reviews and don't go cheapo! And buy online since price can be 1/3 of what stores ask.

There is no rule against putting the trackIR cam closer to you than the TV itself. The other solution would be to make a home made 3 reflector hat clip with extra wide distances between reflectors - sticking out 10 cm or more each side of your head and 10 cm above your head.

Of course you would look even MORE dorky than you already do with standard trackIR but it would fix the sensitivity issue.

[Kikuchiyo]

Some PC monitors can display better than "HD" quality. Personally I would go with the highest pixel count you can get. More pixels = higher quality image. A 42" HD tv actually has significantly larger pixels than a 24" monitor which more or less means a lower quality image on the larger screen.

[Zoom2136]

response times and refresh rates are generally better on monitors i thought?

generally for response time you want to aim for 2ms for gaming. the more hz the better as well.

personally rather happy i managed to hunt down this 22" crt viewsonic a few years ago. a bigger widescreen panel is on the cards once the CoD beastrig as been acquired though.

But with HDTVs you got to consider input lag which has nothing to do with the panel response time. Some HDTVs have horrible input lag, which translate into sluggish response (read you move your stick and the visual representation of your airplane respond with a delay).

So an HDTV with a low input lag (and response time) is what hardcore gamers are looking for. Odly, the more Mhz (120+) you have the more prone to input lag a HDTV is. Must be in the image processing...

Read up on the link provided before... a lot of info there...

[Zoom2136]

I'm gaming on 55 inch 1080P with 240hz. One small problem is that TrackIR doesn't work too well when you're sitting far away from TV.

If you go with HDTV, make sure you buy quality and something with smoothing - read reviews and don't go cheapo! And buy online since price can be 1/3 of what stores ask.

Tri putting your Track iR directly behind you. This way it can be closer to you without impairing your vision. But you will need to reverse it axis, and a Track Clip Pro (the one with leds) would probably be required..

[Voyager]

I'm personally using one of these HP LP2475w (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176104) and I love it. I've been thinking about getting a couple more and setting up a multipanel display, but I'm not sure if I have room on my desk. I've even got my XBox plugged into it through the Composite inputs.

My previous monitor was the 2ms version of the LG LW226WT (http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/lg-l226wt-lcd-display/4507-3174_7-32366721.html?tag=mncolBtm;rnav). It was fine, bu the color and viewing angles weren't that great, especially when going from one corner of the screen to another. The HP has an IPS panel, and while it is theoretically slower in response rate, I've never noticed it, and with the far better colour and picture I see things that I never saw on the LG.

[Sim]

Tri putting your Track iR directly behind you. This way it can be closer to you without impairing your vision. But you will need to reverse it axis, and a Track Clip Pro (the one with leds) would probably be required..



Other than modifying clip or buying clip-pro, there is no way of fixing that due to my setup.

[CharveL]

I'm gaming on 55 inch 1080P with 240hz. One small problem is that TrackIR doesn't work too well when you're sitting far away from TV.

If you go with HDTV, make sure you buy quality and something with smoothing - read reviews and don't go cheapo! And buy online since price can be 1/3 of what stores ask.

Clip or not, the best way to fix this is to find a way to bring the IR receiver closer to you.

[Heliocon]

HDTV are ugly for gaming, the low resolution compared with the large size and high cost makes it unnatractive (to me). You could go multi monitor.

I love my monitor - Dell 24inch 1920x1200, I would highly suggest a high res 24inch monitor tbh.

[Zoom2136]

I have a 28" 1920x1200 I-Inc that I got from TigerDirect. But I don't like the colors. I tried a lot of different setup to no use.

What about you guys using multiple monitors? Is it better than 1 large screen?

While we are at it, anybody using a projector? If so, how do you like it?

Guess I have some time before COD is available in Canada...

[Heliocon]

I have a 28" 1920x1200 I-Inc that I got from TigerDirect. But I don't like the colors. I tried a lot of different setup to no use.

What about you guys using multiple monitors? Is it better than 1 large screen?

While we are at it, anybody using a projector? If so, how do you like it?

Guess I have some time before COD is available in Canada...

Well I dont have a projector myself but do not do that unless you got alot of $ to throw at it. I dont know a huge amount but all I have read and the gaming one I have seen are not that good. So if you go that route make sure to get a really good quality projector (so good colors/ability to adjust twink with setting aswell I think would be a must) and have a room that is the right size to set up a projector in with a projector screen pulldown for it to display on (unless you have a really really white wall ;) ). But still I think its the same prob with tvs, you get a much larger screen but the same if not lower resolution (so like 25% less pixels and 9x the display area = you do the math ^^ ).
I only use one monitor for gaming even though I have another 3 22s for work and are different brands so it would look weird connecting them up as the sides are different shape/height/width (the monitor casing or whatever around the screen). Multi monitor systems are good, but you have to have the $ to buy the displays and the GPU's to run the games at the high resolutions that are needed. I am a nvidia person but ATI eyefinity I hear is pretty decent. In face I think a combat flight sim would be by far the best game for multimonitors, because I dont like the breakup of the image because I feel between the screens there are blindspots which distract me. But in a flight sim your cockpit has beams/supports in it, in fact if the center monitor is your forward vision, then the side screens work perfectly as your L and R periferals, and I am sure it would be less distracting since you have those blindspots in the game already in a way...

Other option is go for a 120hz monitor and buy the nvidia 3d set, I have only seen really positive reviews about it.

[Porksmuggler]

HDTV are ugly for gaming, the low resolution compared with the large size and high cost makes it unnatractive (to me). You could go multi monitor.

I'm sitting here with a 1080p 32" HDTV and multiple 24" monitors. Even with the lower PPI of the 32", I would choose it every time over the 24" multiples for gaming.

It's all about viewing distance, you will not notice the lower PPI unless you are retina burning close to the screen.

http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

[Heliocon]

Hmmm, thats really interesting stuff, maybe the tv I saw was not hd/we were using it to close.

Btw nice website :)

[Porksmuggler]

Hmmm, thats really interesting stuff, maybe the tv I saw was not hd/we were using it to close.

Btw nice website :)

I sit exactly at 1 m, at little over 3 ft. I find at 1080p the 32" is ideal for this distance, with a 24" text is too small, and a 42" is much too large to sit this close (I haven't yet tried a 37").

One of the most common problems for those with HDTVs is incorrect setup. Most newer HDTVs have a PC input setting which eliminates a lot of the processing incorporated for TV/movie viewing. Most of the complaints I see with HDTVs are from incorrect calibration/setup.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/computerworkstations/components_monitors.html#Viewing%20Distance

[Heliocon]

Stop! I surrender already ;)