Saitek x65

[F19_Klunk]

As some of u probably have understood I am trying to figure out my next move regarding a hotas setup. I have another thread where we discuss the Logitechm but right now I am not sure if this is the way I wanna go, considering some characteristics that doesn't seem right .

I have a few friends with the Warthog and the impression I have from that one is positive but mixed.. The other option I see is the saitek x65 but I haven't read or heard much about this one... it is kind of "special" with the force thihy non moving stick.

could those of you who do have one or have tried it out write your impressions and thoughts about it?

thank you

[JG53Frankyboy]

and if its throttle quadrant can be used seperatly from the joystick, to be specific, if its throttle can be used with a M$ FFB2 :)

(as example, the G940 throttle can not be used seperatly :( )

[Qpassa]

and if its throttle quadrant can be used seperatly from the joystick, to be specific, if its throttle can be used with a M$ FFB2 :)

(as example, the G940 throttle can not be used seperatly :( )

the throttle of G940 can be used seperatly, but only after 4.10 version ;)
You have the configuracion in HOTAS

[DD_crash]

and if its throttle quadrant can be used seperatly from the joystick, to be specific, if its throttle can be used with a M$ FFB2 :)

(as example, the G940 throttle can not be used seperatly :( )
I think it should be OK to use just the throttle, is is on the X52. although you might have to keep the stick connected to the throttle. (No need with the X52) I turned my stick into a button bay :)

[Artist]

the throttle of G940 can be used seperatly, but only after 4.10 version ;)
You have the configuracion in HOTAS

Probably a misunderstanding, Qpassa: The meant using the throttle without having to connect the stick as well. And this cannot be done: The throttle (and the pedals) have D-Sub 9 connectors to the stick, the stick contains the controllors and connects to the PC with USB... You cannot connect throttle and/or pedals to the PC directly.

Artist

[JG53Frankyboy]

Probably a misunderstanding, Qpassa: The meant using the throttle without having to connect the stick as well. And this cannot be done: The throttle (and the pedals) have D-Sub 9 connectors to the stick, the stick contains the controllors and connects to the PC with USB... You cannot connect throttle and/or pedals to the PC directly.

Artist

exactly :)

[Qpassa]

Yes It was a misunderstood :D

[F19_Klunk]

to me it seems like no-one have got this gear.... as I have seen very few comments and reviews of it.

[speculum jockey]

to me it seems like no-one have got this gear.... as I have seen very few comments and reviews of it.

Mostly because nobody trusts Saitek to make a product actually worth that amount.

[JG53Frankyboy]

and force sensing is most propably not the best idea for a WWII engine aircraft........
Perhaps ask more in a Jet flight forum :D

[Blackdog_kt]

Actually that would be the main reason.

Some kind of feedback is necessary when you don't have fly by wire jets with a head up display to give you all the relevant data.

For the older warbirds, that feedback usually comes in the form of "the plane used to turn/climb/dive better when i applied that kind of pressure before", at which point the virtual pilot can realize something's wrong with their current maneuver :-P

In force feedback sticks, it's obvious that you get a lot of tactile information about this.

However, even a simple spring loaded stick can provide a reference: when equal amounts of stick displacement result in different amounts of directional change on the screen, with a bit of experience and after some practice you can judge what's wrong.

It's not like force feedback where you have a direct force resisting your moving the stick. For example, i'm flying a 109 and i pull the stick 15 degrees back and see the nose rising 5 degrees per second on one case...i do the same on another occasion but the nose rises only 2 degrees per second. I instinctively know that i'm probably going too fast and i'm encountering the 109's elevator stiffness.

A FF stick would convey that as actual force resisting the stick's motion, with a simple spring loaded stick you rely on the difference between amount of actual stick input and results on the screen.

However, a force sensing stick lacks much of that feedback. It doesn't provide any resistance to motion because it doesn't move at all. For the exact same reason, it also can't serve to judge performance by comparing between stick movement vs in-game movement like the simple spring loaded sticks.

The only thing that would work is getting used to it to the point that you can actually "remember" the amount of force you apply each time and compare that one with the in-game resulting motion. That's much like the spring loaded stick but without any movement to help you accurately judge it.

I don't know if the X65 is a good or a bad HOTAS set, all i know is that it's probably better suited by design to modern jet sims.

Also, a fun little fact to keep in mind is that the initial F16 models were fitted with a similar system, a force sensing stick that didn't move. Well, pilots complained so much about lack of tactile feedback during maneuvers, that the manufacturers were eventually forced to implement a small range of motion for the stick regardless of its force sensing nature ;)

[swiss]

Mostly because nobody trusts Saitek to make a product actually worth that amount.

lol, so true.

BTT, a guy on our forum wrote a pretty extensive review.
I'll just link the google translation(which sux badly) as I'm not going to translate it.
http://translate.google.ch/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.sturmovik.de%2Fview topic.php%3Ff%3D7%26t%3D123&sl=de&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

I think you should be able to figure out the most important parts. ;)

[MicroWave]

There is an extensive review of the stick on SimHQ:
http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_088a.html
Sadly, there is only a very short description about handling in Il-2.

[Tvrdi]

IMHO the best setup would be:

Joystick: MS FFB2 or Precision 2 (if you dont like FFB)
throttle: x52 or x52 pro
pedals: Simped vario usb

this is all time best in terms of durability, precision and comfort

[swiss]

I actually have the first two - however, the FFB2 is giving me lots of problems under W7.
Suddenly disappearing centering force leaves you with rumble only etc...
(could be with UP only though)

[notafinger!]

IMHO the best setup would be:

Joystick: MS FFB2 or Precision 2 (if you dont like FFB)
throttle: x52 or x52 pro
pedals: Simped vario usb

this is all time best in terms of durability, precision and comfort

Can the X52 throttle be used without the X52 stick?

[Tvrdi]

Can the X52 throttle be used without the X52 stick?

yep

[gabberfreak]

IMHO the best setup would be:

Joystick: MS FFB2 or Precision 2 (if you dont like FFB)
throttle: x52 or x52 pro
pedals: Simped vario usb

this is all time best in terms of durability, precision and comfort

My setup:
Joystick: Thrustmaster T.16000M
Throttle: X52