For a "new flyer" picking up COD.....

[maclean525]

So myself, like many folks, are pretty new to this whole online combat simulation deal. I've flown IL2 a little but really just waiting on COD. I am a huge fan of WW2 and being Scottish I can only fly the Hurricane or Spitfire. Since I am new I see absolutely no point at all in flying the spitfire online against experienced 109 pilots, I'm just going to get waxed immediately.

So lets say I'd like to simulate being a new WW2 pilot and only fly the missions a new pilot would fly. I'll have my trusty Hurricane at my disposal. What type missions would a new WW2 pilot fly and what opposition would they be up against? Bomber intercept missions against Heinkels and Stukas?

Also, what tactics would I employ against those bombers?

Cheers,
...Colin

[Daniël]

Main tactic: Don't attack bombers direct from their 6 o'clock. The gunners are going to hit you if you do that. And I wouldn't recommend attacking He 111s from below. You will be slower than in level flight so the gunner can quite easily hit you.

Try to keep an altitude advantage and keep your energy high. Also don't fly too long in a straight line in a dogfight...

Good luck!

[SEE]

I B&Z the bombers from high, always faster than my target . Unfortunately, the AI gunners (in Il1946) are far more deadly than they really should be and we will have to wait and see if the same applies in COD, even so, I avoid attacking a tightly packed formation unless there are others attacking too.........(such a coward I know) ..:grin: Even if your mission brief is 'attacking bombers' they will have fighter escort and you may well find yourself embroiled with the fighters.

TBH, just engage in the game, enjoy it!

[JG52Uther]

I think a lot of practise offline is going to be needed by everyone when CoD arrives.There will probably be some 'training' missions included,so it would be wise to try those.
I have a vague feeling that people who think they can just press 'start' and take off to become an instant figher ace are in for a shock!
That goes for the il2 old timers as well as new guys.

[FlyingShark]

That goes for the il2 old timers as well as new guys.
Will the difference be THAT huge?

~S~

[BigC208]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG52Uther
That goes for the il2 old timers as well as new guys.

If CoD has a more realistic physics model than Il2 flying could be a revelation. Better keep an eye on the windsock. Even a Spit or Hurri are a handfull in a x-wind. A 109 is always a handfull. Now this is just getting in the air. Gunnery and combat manouvres could be a challenge.

It took me about 15 or 20 missions into the Russian fighter career before I got a kill. I hope they have an easy setting so we can at least get of the ground. I stalled and torque rolled that demo P39 right into the ground so many times it was not funny anymore. Very rewarding though when you get the hang of it though. Flying on a full tilt server is probably going to be a humbling experience. For that reason alone I probably go Luftwaffe. The 20mm cannon are going to come in real handy for sloppy shooters like me.

I'm looking forward to the improved scenery but this game's really going to be about the flying experience for me. If they got the feel as close as RoF has gotten it I'll be a happy camper. Looks are only skin deep. If it flies like it's on rails, no matter how good it looks, it'll be a disapointment. Now knowing il2, I'm not to worried about that happening.

[Daniël]

@ BigC208, remember that the 20mm MF/FFs on the Emil have just 60 shells to play with ;)

[Richie]

When you come into Spits VS 109s make sure you say you're a new chap and tell the Luftwaffe side the number that's on your Hurricane or Spitfire.

[Blackdog_kt]

Will the difference be THAT huge?

~S~

Actually my understanding is that there will be various small differences, but they they are all added together they will necessitate significant departures from our old habits if we want to be successful. In this context, "added all together" means flying with all of the FM and DM limitations enabled. Even when i'm flying offline and i keep external cameras on for snapping screenshots, i never turn off things like damage, flight model features or limited ammo/fuel, so the actual flying, shooting and crashing is still full real even if my chosen view system is not. So, let's see what happens in that regard.

First of all, the new damage model will be way more detailed. Oleg Maddox said in a past update that the game's engine is tracking up to 400-500 different parameters for each aircraft. If less than half of them relate to the DM, it's obvious how much more detailed it will be. The meaning of this is that even low caliber weapons will be able to do good damage if sufficient concentration is used. So, getting close with a Hurricane and giving a good two second burst might not chop off anyone's wings, but it stands a good chance of severing things like hydraylic and coolant lines, controls, putting the inverter or generator of the target's electric system out of action, etc. Same thing could be said for a 109 that's out of cannon ammunition, if he can maintain a tracking shot long enough to put some serious amount of rounds on the target with his two machine guns.

Second, there will be engine limitations in high difficulty settings. We won't be able to cruise around at 100% throttle all day long. We probably won't be able to "cheat" by going more than 110% and reducing the prop pitch to stave off the overheat, since that could cause an over-torque and damage the engine. These are well known tricks in the IL2 world but i suspect they won't work in CoD due to the enhanced engine and subsystems modelling.

So, everyone will have to fly by the numbers in the book for as long as possible, keeping the engine cool and healthy for the times when it's absolutely necessary to really push it to the limits.

In essence, i don't think the feeling of flight will be much different as IL2s flight models were already accurate for the most part. The real difference will come from the worlkload of managing new variables in other respects, like aircraft subsystems. This will force people to spend more time looking at the gauges with their head down in the cockpit, which will result in reduced situational awareness overall, more bounces, more disengaged fights and less protracted fights, just like it usually happened in real life back in the day.

What i'm trying to convey is that the planes might fly more or less the same, but it will take more work to make them do so because they won't operate the same.

As for the original poster's question, CoD will feature training missions in a Tiger Moth with an AI instructor. If these are detailed, they will be a very good primer for these new features even for us old timers because once again, most of us know how to fly more or less but not a lot of us know how to operate the aircraft properly. I suggest you do the training missions, not necessarily in a strict manner of "i'm not flying on combat before i graduate", after all it's a game and it's meant to be fun, but interspersed with your combat flying you could definitely spend time with them to better acquaint yourself with the intricacies of the new features.

Once you know how to operate a piston engine and fly a trainer, get a Hurricane which is docile and stable and start practicing offline in the quick mission builder. Set small, distinct and easily achievable goals for yourself on each mission and work toward those.
This helps dissect the myriad of things a virtual combat pilot must keep in mind into distinct entities, reduces confusion by putting your focus on one thing at a time and also gives you a measurable sense of your progress and success, which will encourage you to keep learning.

Most of all, if you focus on getting down one thing at a time then some things which require a bit of certain knowledge but are repetitive in nature will become a mechanical action for you. This saves you time and improves your reflexes because it frees up your brain to think about the stuff that needs some innovation.
For example, it's not good to fly the exact same maneuvers in the exact same sequence in a fight, it's good to mix things up and remain creative and unpredictable. However, the power settings you use for certain regimes of flight are more or less a set of standards, so it's actually beneficial to be able to do them as a function of muscle memory/mechanic behavior.
If i know that +8lbs of power and 2800RPM gives me the best combat climb without risk of overheat in my hurricane, then it's beneficial to remember how the engine sounds at those settings because it enables me to tune it by ear and spend time looking at the target instead of the cockpit gauges.
Sure, the gauge is still the ultimate indication of what's going on, but i can save a few precious moments by getting it close enough by ear, then fine-tuning it as soon as i can afford to take a peek below the dashboard. ;)

As you can see, i'm not talking about tactics and flying as much as about conditioning your brain and sense coordination to operate a virtual aircraft in an effortless fashion, because it is a big deal. If you can almost fly with your eyes closed, then with your eyes open you'll be able to fly AND think at the same time ;)

For example, i would devote a mission to flying around with no enemies at all, just getting used to the Hurricane. I would fly around the base, do traffic patterns, touch and goes, climbs/dives, general handling, etc. I would push the engine over the limits and see how long it takes to cause an overheat, how easy it is to recover from it, then push it again and see how long until i cause damage to my aircraft, then when the engine is cooked i would try to bring it in for a deadstick landing, things like that.

Once i knew how to work the Hurricane inside out, i would then focus on gunnery. Set up a flight of bombers with no ammunition in the QMB but limited ammo for me so that i'm forced to take careful aim. Make an initial head on pass and aim for the bomber's cockpit, exiting at their six o'clock, swing around and fly parallel to them just outside their gun's range and a bit higher than them.

Then, when i can see them almost parallel to the side of me (ie, my 10 or or 2 o'clock depending on if it's left/right), turn towards them and place my nose in front of their projected flight path. Watch for the bomber's apparent motion in regards to a fixed reference on your aircraft, canopy frame bars are good for this:
If the bomber is moving behind the canopy bar you are going to harmlessly pass in front of him, so tighten your turn a little bit.
It it's stationary in relation to the canopy bar you are on a collision course, so widen your turn a bit.
If it's moving ahead of the canopy bar you're going to intersect flight paths. This might still mean a collision, a harmless pass behind his tail, or an intersection of flight path in a way that he crosses in front of your nose at close range, but not too close for comfort. This last thing is what you want to achieve and with a bit of practice it's way faster to do than it is to explain on the forum :-P

When you master how to intersect bombers this way give yourself a pat on the back, because you've learned how to fly pursuit curves against them. Load up the mission again and do the same thing, but before you intersect them make sure to keep your wings level with the bomber's wings. This aligns your guns' plane of motion with the bomber's plane of motion, so that your guns are shooting AT him instead of over/under him. Now all that's left to do is press the trigger sometime before he crosses your sights, to allow for deflection.

After getting comfortable with this, give the bombers some ammunition so they can shoot back at you. Observing their arcs of fire and already knowing how to fly a curved attack path, you can now finetune your method in order to exploit their blind spots.

And so forth and so on...

Take it one step at a time, set distinct, achievable challenges for yourself in order not to get swamped and demoralized with it and enjoy the learning curve.

When you know how to handle yourself, go online and fly a few sorties in a full difficulty server. Don't expect to do much, in fact expect to die a lot so act as cover for the more experienced guys. Just observe what's going on and only attack to clear a friendly's tail. This might sound stupid and/or boring, but it does a few important things for you:

1) You might not be helping much yet, but you're not getting in anybody's way. An extra target to shoot at increases everyone's chances of survival.

2) You just hang back and follow an experienced flier through his maneuvers, so if anyone bounces him you can clear his tail. After a while of doing this, you will subconsciously pick up his smoothness of flying and your control of the aircraft will improve tremendously.

3) You might get a lucky shot, or even a kill if the guy you are covering gets bounced.

4) You get on everybody's good side for being such a good sport, people like having you as a wingman and they'll start inviting your over after a couple of days. "Hey mate, we'll patrol that grid, want to tag along with us?". This gives you the chance to keep flying with more experienced people and further learn from them.

Just start with the basics and the easy stuff and go from there, because trying to suddenly become sufficiently proficient all around will drive you nuts :grin:

I'm not a hot shot by any means, but even after a long absence from online flying i am able to achieve a 50/50 kill to death ratio if i fly this way for 8-12 hours on 2-3 consecutive evenings. Sure, i forget a lot of stuff and go back to square one, but if you do it once it's that much easier to pick up again in the future.

Sorry for the long post, hope it helps you out :grin:

[Meusli]

Awesome post Blackdog_kt. What he said Maclean525, also when you are online there are always helpful guys to talk to when you a stuck. I have been flying for years and still suck as a fighter pilot so I get more enjoyment taking the bombers out for a spin.

[BigC208]

@Daniel, no worries mate, Ons Zeeuwen ben zunig!