A simple and little question about COD (please check!)

[Faucon]

Hi.

I hope Oleg or a member of the team will read this. My question is about the reactivity/response of commands to our action on the joystick.
In IL2, there is a little delay, but the worst is that we cant go full ailerons (or elevators or rudder, i'm speaking about all commands) instantanetly. As I have not enough vocabulary in english, the best is to see by yourself what I mean on a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61gpL5lgRb0
You can clearly see what I mean at:
2:50 to 2:58 (notice the rudder)
3:05 (notice the elevators)
3:19 - 3:26 (notice ailerons and rudder)
3:41 to 3:45 (notice the rudder and elevators)
Notice in general the instant reaction we can have in a real aerobatic plane, compare to IL2.

So, I'm just asking if we'll be able to "play" with airplane's ailerons like this in COD with the Su26 :)

If I'm not enough clear, let me know.

Thx you in advance.

[Faucon]

Hem, sorry, I just saw there is the " IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover" section up here. I posted on the wrong place.

[Faucon]

up

[swiss]

You do realize a SU26 is not a Spit or a Focke?

The difference is about 2000kg, or 300% of the Su. ;)

[Faucon]

What's your point? I dont understand.

[swiss]

What's your point? I dont understand.

Jeep Wrangler vs Humvee.

Better?

[Faucon]

You're telling me an aerobatic plane is lighter than a warbird. You're not teaching me anything and it's not answering to my question at all.

[swiss]

You're telling me an aerobatic plane is lighter than a warbird. You're not teaching me anything and it's not answering to my question at all.

What exactly do u want? Planes that behave like the Su?

[Faucon]

What exactly do u want? Planes that behave like the Su?

Lol... May be I was not enough clear in my first message. The question is not about FM (very important), just about the reaction of ailerons. Not the reaction of the plane of what we're doing with the stick, it's another problem.

In a large range of planes (aerobatics included), the stick is directly linked to the ailerons. If you pull your stick hard in 0.001sec, the elevator will react in 0.001sec. Not in IL2 (try ROF, you'll see the difference). That's why I'm asking how it's gonna be in COD.

[Azimech]

Do you have input filtering on?

[Furio]

Lol... May be I was not enough clear in my first message. The question is not about FM (very important), just about the reaction of ailerons. Not the reaction of the plane of what we're doing with the stick, it's another problem.

In a large range of planes (aerobatics included), the stick is directly linked to the ailerons. If you pull your stick hard in 0.001sec, the elevator will react in 0.001sec. Not in IL2 (try ROF, you'll see the difference). That's why I'm asking how it's gonna be in COD.

Direct linking or not, different planes have vastly different behaviour.

It depends by many factors such as inertia, control link friction, and control effectiveness, not to mention how much stability you need to overcome. A plane may react instantly at control input or not, and may stop reacting instantly when you return the stick to centre or not. In many cases, you do have a residual roll rate, requiring a little contrary stick input.

In any case, roll rates have huge differences from plane to plane.

[Faucon]

Do you have input filtering on?

I dont know how to tell. In input settings, IL2 recognize only one joystick (my pedals, and dont even show the rudder axis). I should be able to set it in the conf.ini, but where it is?

[swiss]

I dont know how to tell. In input settings, IL2 recognize only one joystick (my pedals, and dont even show the rudder axis). I should be able to set it in the conf.ini, but where it is?

In the conf.ini check for the joystick input.
Each axis goes from 0 to 100, behind the 100, there are another two digits - filtering and deadzone, if both are 0 it's off.

[brando]

If the Su-26 is included then I can't see why the reaction of the control surfaces won't be modelled as close to the real thing as possible. Those reactions don't compare to the reaction of the warbirds in IL-2, where so many other variables come into play.

A few examples would be; position of fuel tanks, fuel load, weight of guns, weight of ammunition boxes, ditto armour plates; size and composition of control surfaces (whether covered with metal or canvas), ditto airframe. And so on.

The Su-26 is built and rigged for extreme, short-duration aerobatics. I don't see any reason why this won't be reflected in the game.

[Faucon]

I already had filtering at zero.

Remember, the problem is not the reaction of the plane. It's very very very very simple compared to all the stuffs you are explaining. It's just how fast the aileron will react to the action on the joystick. Btw this is something you can test on the ground.
Try to do 2 or 3 left-right rudder inputs in 1sec with your pedals (or any other axis), on the ground, and watch how the rudder of the aircraft react. The reaction is way too slow compare to your inputs.

[janpitor]

I think zour problem is in the CPU. I had the same little delay for many years. Recently I upgraded to a new PC with 4GHz overclocked i5 and the reaction on the stick is instantaneous now.

[DD_crash]

I dont know how to tell. In input settings, IL2 recognize only one joystick (my pedals, and dont even show the rudder axis). I should be able to set it in the conf.ini, but where it is?
Hello , please read this http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&op=show&kid=261 and download http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=1021 Its called joycontrol and allows to set up ALL axis including trim, throttle and brakes You will have to register with Mission4Today but its worth it for all the skins and utils you can get :)

[Faucon]

I think zour problem is in the CPU. I had the same little delay for many years. Recently I upgraded to a new PC with 4GHz overclocked i5 and the reaction on the stick is instantaneous now.

I recently changed my computer, which is now way more powerful of course. I didnt notice about the delay, may be it's shorter. But... the delay is not the problem i'm talking about ;)

[swiss]

I recently changed my computer, which is now way more powerful of course. I didnt notice about the delay, may be it's shorter. But... the delay is not the problem i'm talking about ;)

Sure, the rudders require an OCed 980X and quad-SLI.

Had a good laugh, thx janpit.

[zipper]

Are we of the opinion that the control surfaces of the aircraft in the game are responsible for controlling said aircraft in its virtual environment? I seriously doubt this is the case. I'd be more inclined to test the timing of the response of the aircraft to the control input itself.

Having brought up response variables, I might, again, bring up the lack of initial roll rate modeling in game. It makes no difference how your aircraft is loaded, it will achieve its max roll rate in the same period of time. Try a p-47 empty versus 500lb bombs (+ ammo).

[kimosabi]

I believe what Faucon asks is NOT how the aircraft reacts, or how axis setup works.

If you press full rudder in game as fast as you can while noticing how the rudder surface reacts, you'll see that the rudder will not SLAM in position like it would on a real aircraft that has direct linkage between your pedals and rudder surface. Instead the in-game rudder moves gradually and progressively.

Doesn't matter how you set up your axis at all, it could even have been an on/off switch from 0 to 100% travel for all I care. The game doesn't allow "direct link" between your control surfaces and stick/pedals. Movement always happen gradually after stick/pedal input. Control delay is a whole different matter.

As for answering your question, Faucon, I don't think there's a way around this in IL-2 but as you, I hope there's a more direct feel in CoD:IL-2. Atleast in simulator mode. Should toughen up the difficulty quite a bit. It would also force people to handle the planes like they should(IMO) be handled. Right now, in IL-2, the progressive and gradual surface movement is practically saving you from messing up your airplanes attitude, when you jerk the stick around like many do.

[Seeker]

[QUOTE=. But... the delay is not the problem i'm talking about ;)[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean.

Some products do this. I think Target ware was the worst - they delay all inputs to what they think a guy operating mechanical/wire linkages could do in a 350 MPH wind.

Of course this is false. In real life the rudder moves as fast as the pedal.

Of course this is true. In real life the rudder moves nowhere fast at 350 MPH.

I guess the answer is, in the end, real force feedback pedals. Until then, the delay should be modelled, and we should argue about it.

How about a model where joystick filtering is speed dependant? Or do we have that already?

[NLS61]

Controll surfaces are never directly linked to the stick or foot peddals.
In the link between those and the control surface there are sevral joints.
All ofthese have a certain amount of play so the when the stick is moved this play is, much like a train departing where the tug is at at some speed already when the last wagon is still at a stand still, played out.
The same goes for the sytem with cables and rollers here cable tension is in play.
so the conection between stick aillerons, and elevator is ann the stick
cannot be ridgid.
Maybe the visual pause between actaution and actual visible movement is a bit overdone.
But I cannot believe the plane is actually reacting to the rudder position in the game.
Morelikely the world outside is directly influenced by the user input with a delay computed for the situation, height speed atittude and so on, and type of plane,

chers,

Niels

[Art-J]

I hope you remember Faucon, that Il-2 does not model direct link between joystick movement and control surface movement. A colour square you see in your input setup screen does not represent the movement of your virtual control stick, but a force your "pilot" applies to it (at least that's how it worked up to 4.09, the new patch changed something over here, but I don't know what exactly, becase the readme is a bit messy to understand in this regard :D).

Perhaps that shouldn't result in a respose delay anyway, but you have to keep all these little details in mind when doing your tests.

Cheers