What about ground-attack missions?

[addman]

We all know that BoB was mostly about air-air engagements with some elements of jabo missions but will the campaigns have ANY variations other than air-air? I know it might seem a bit picky since this is a BoB sim/game and we don't know squat about how the missions will be really but flying the same type of missions might get a little repetetive. I guess that the triggers/scripting, new A.I and the new dynamic weather system will make every mission unique though.

What about the pics of german armoured vehicles/tanks we've seen? what use will they have if the germans can't "win" and stage an invasion? Only decorative and for "what if" mission builders maybe? What do I care anyway, I'll be over 3000 meters up in the air in a Fiat Br.20 training my bombsight anyway :cool:

[JG53Frankyboy]

well, looking at the so far "known" list of flyable planes , it realy looks like it will be an attack war mostly for the Axis side.........

Bf109
Bf110
Ju87
Ju88
He111
Br20

all can carry bombs.
Allied , only the Blenheim (a dream of mine would be as additional flyables the Wellington and Beaufort, torpedo attacks with "correct" torpedo limits :) )........

"Online Wars" will not have easy times with the BoB release version i guess :D

most propably we will have to wait for the next SoW scenario to get in a tactial ground war ;) ............. Northern Africa or Eastern Front :)

[Daniël]

JG53Frankyboy, the Fiat G.50 is flyable too on the axis side.
I don't think the early version of the Bf 109 E (which is in SoW) could carry bombs.

[JG53Frankyboy]

but the G.50 will not be able to carry bombs.I mentioned only the bombcarriers.

and what is a BoB game without the possibility to simulate the german Bf109 Fighterbomberraids (3./ErprGrp210, II(Schlacht)/LG2 from september on, one squadron of every fightergroup from October on) or the history of the ErprGrp210's Bf110.
BTW, in the FMB pictures that Maddox posted in the last update there were Bf109E-3/B and Bf110C-7 (a C-4/B never existed offically) in the planelist ;)

and AFAIK the Hurricane and Spitfire werent able/used to carry bombs in 1940...

[Daniël]

Yes, the G.50 couldn't carry bombs. The armament was 2 12.7 mm MGs and sometimes + 2 7.7 mm MGs in the wings I think. It would be nice if there were both versions.:cool:

[Chivas]

There will be plenty of action for ground pounders. There will be nothing to stop you from flying with whatever aircraft carries ordnance, looking for targets of opportunity on both sides of the channel..

[bf-110]

well, looking at the so far "known" list of flyable planes , it realy looks like it will be an attack war mostly for the Axis side.........



Battle of Britain was a one side attack x one side defence...

I hope we see earlier Bf-109s,like the B,C and D

[IceFire]

Battle of Britain was a one side attack x one side defence...

I hope we see earlier Bf-109s,like the B,C and D

I thought the earliest Bf109s to fight in The Battle of Britain were E-1s and that other variants had been phased out.

[WTE_Galway]

Battle of Britain was a one side attack x one side defence...



Only in the movies.

In reality the bomber and coastal commands attacked Germany, France and were attacking airfields, seaplane bases and the invasion barges right through the Battle of Britain. They also had night fighters on patrol over France intercepting outgoing and incoming German bombers.

By the end of the BoB the new Operation Rhubarb low-level fighter operations also were starting to roll out.

From Wikipedia (note the article states "9,180 sorties were flown by (British) bombers from July to October 1940") :



Bomber Command and Coastal Command aircraft flew offensive sorties against targets in Germany and France during the battle. After the initial disasters of the war, with Vickers Wellington bombers shot down in large numbers attacking Wilhelmshaven and the slaughter of the Fairey Battle squadrons sent to France, it became clear that Bomber Command would have to operate mainly at night to achieve any results without incurring very high losses.[140] From 15 May 1940, a night time bomber campaign was launched against the German oil industry, communications, and forests/crops, mainly in the Ruhr area.

As the threat mounted, Bomber Command changed targeting priority on 3 June 1940 to attack the German aircraft industry. On 4 July, the Air Ministry gave Bomber Command orders to attack ports and shipping. By September, the buildup of invasion barges in the Channel ports had become a top priority target.[141] On 7 September, the government issued a warning that the invasion could be expected within the next few days and that night, Bomber Command attacked the Channel ports and supply dumps. On 13 September, they carried out another large raid on the Channel ports, sinking 80 large barges in the port of Ostend.[142] 84 barges were sunk in Dunkirk after another raid on 17 September and by 19 September, almost 200 barges had been sunk.[141] The loss of these barges may have contributed to Hitler's decision to postpone Operation Sealion indefinitely.[141] The success of these raids was in part because the Germans had few Freya radar stations set up in France, so that air defences of the French harbours were not nearly as good as the air defences over Germany; Bomber Command had directed some 60% of its strength against the Channel ports.

The Bristol Blenheim units also raided German-occupied airfields throughout July to December 1940, both during daylight hours and at night. Although most of these raids were unproductive, there were some successes; on 1 August, five out of 12 Blenheims sent to attack Haamstede and Evere (Brussels) were able to bomb, destroying or heavily damaging three Bf 109s of II./JG 27 and apparently killing a Staffelkapitän identified as a Hauptmann Albrecht von Ankum-Frank. Two other 109s were claimed by Blenheim gunners.[143][nb 21] Another successful raid on Haamstede was made by a single Blenheim on 7 August which destroyed one 109 of 4./JG 54, heavily damaged another and caused lighter damage to four more.[144]

There were some missions which produced an almost 100% casualty rate amongst the Blenheims; one such operation was mounted on 13 August 1940 against a Luftwaffe airfield near Aalborg in north-eastern Denmark by 12 aircraft of 82 Squadron. One Blenheim returned early (the pilot was later charged and due to appear before a court martial, but was killed on another operation), the other 11, which reached Denmark, were shot down, five by flak and six by Bf 109s. Of the 33 crewmen who took part in the attack, 20 were killed and 13 captured.[145]

As well as the bombing operations, Blenheim-equipped units had been formed to carry out long-range strategic reconnaissance missions over Germany and German-occupied territories. In this role, the Blenheims again proved to be too slow and vulnerable against Luftwaffe fighters, and they took constant casualties.[146][page needed]

Coastal Command directed its attention towards the protection of British shipping, and the destruction of enemy shipping. As invasion became more likely, it participated in the strikes on French harbours and airfields, laying mines, and mounting numerous reconnaissance missions over the enemy-held coast. In all, some 9,180 sorties were flown by bombers from July to October 1940. Although this was much less than the 80,000 sorties flown by fighters, bomber crews suffered about half the total number of casualties borne by their fighter colleagues. The bomber contribution was therefore much more dangerous on a loss-per-sortie comparison.[147]

It is a testament to the courage of the men in these bomber, reconnaissance and Coastal Command units that they continued to operate throughout these months with little respite and with little of the publicity accorded to Fighter Command. In his famous 20 August speech about "The Few", praising Fighter Command, Churchill also made a point to mention Bomber Command's contribution, adding that bombers were even then striking back at Germany; this part of the speech is often overlooked.[148][149] The Battle of Britain Chapel in Westminster Abbey lists in a Roll of Honour 718 Bomber Command crew members, and 280 from Coastal Command who were killed between 10 July and 31 October .

[Wutz]

Well these where more sporadic missions in small numbers, going by that, you can then add all of northern England to the map so someone can do Rudolf Hess´s loony flight in his 110. If one wanted to catch every mini action that happened during that time, I think we would have to wait yet a long time for the game. And not to forget we would have to start then with the battle of France.....
If there where such a surplus on planes and pilots during BoB to do all these kind of missions in a effectiv way there never would have been orders handed out that individual aircraft should not stray out into the Channel area. Let alone a pull back to England from France.

[AWL_Spinner]

Battle of Britain was a one side attack x one side defence..

I agree with WTE_Galway. History seems to have forgotten it, but there was a great deal of action involving Bomber Command over this period. Oleg does "Forgotten Battles" well, and I hope this continues!

Anyone who doubts that should read Guy Gibson's biography, "Enemy Coast Ahead". Not only were the fighters trying to hold the line against the Luftwaffe, the bombers were trying to impede preparations for a German invasion, which was a very real threat in 1940 and for which the Battle of Britain was a precursor.

Even at this time the foundations were being laid for Bomber Command's transformation into the formidable machine it became (i.e. the first very large scale raids).

Allied , only the Blenheim (a dream of mine would be as additional flyables the Wellington and Beaufort, torpedo attacks with "correct" torpedo limits ).......

And the Hampden, for reasons as above. It was one of the stalwarts of the attacks on German barges, invasion shipping and ports.

Regards, Spinner

[WTE_Galway]

And the Hampden, for reasons as above. It was one of the stalwarts of the attacks on German barges, invasion shipping and ports.

Regards, Spinner

Another often forgotten plane was the Armstrong Whitley which was obsolete by 1940 but flew a lot of missions for bomber command throughout the Battle of Britain regardless:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Armstrong_Whitworth_Whitley_in_flight_c1940.jpg/300px-Armstrong_Whitworth_Whitley_in_flight_c1940.jpg

In many ways its sad that many aircraft that 1000's of allied crew fought and died in are forgotten purely because they lack the "glamor" to capture the public imagination.

The Short Stirling would also be nice to see eventually as well, though it didn't get into combat until Feb '41 so just missed the Battle of Britain. Allegedly despite being a 4 engined bomber the Stirling could out-turn Ju 88 and Bf 110 nightfighters.

[Avimimus]

Late war G.50s were outfitted with bomb racks if I'm not mistaken??

Announced:
- Identifying enemy units during low level attacks (insignia on tanks)
- A damage model for vehicles that matches the detail of aircraft DMs in Il-2
- The ability to damage different parts of a facility

Personally, I am hoping for:
- A better train damage model (hopefully with derailments or at least the ability to light the train on fire and have it keep moving). Just adding proper durability to rail cars would be great.
- A better damage model for ships (ability to strafe + light fires on deck, ability to damage the bridge or rudder, different compartments flooding with listing).
- Small objects that will create a sense of generalised mayhem during strafing

[Wutz]

Late war G.50s were outfitted with bomb racks if I'm not mistaken??

Announced:
- Identifying enemy units during low level attacks (insignia on tanks)
- A damage model for vehicles that matches the detail of aircraft DMs in Il-2
- The ability to damage different parts of a facility

Personally, I am hoping for:
- A better train damage model (hopefully with derailments or at least the ability to light the train on fire and have it keep moving). Just adding proper durability to rail cars would be great.
- A better damage model for ships (ability to strafe + light fires on deck, ability to damage the bridge or rudder, different compartments flooding with listing).
- Small objects that will create a sense of generalised mayhem during strafing
Oh yes + on that, also no invinsable crew members! That when a crew bails next to your aircraft, and runs into it, manages to totally destroy your aircraft! And a big wish would be that wreckage and debries does not disappear with in seconds, when for example a plane crashes on the runway that it disappears with in seconds so that the next plane can land as if nothing happened, that has always bothered me in IL2. Another point would be also, well I know this only of the blue side that when a bomber looses a engine, with in a fairly short time it always catches fire, I hope this can be changed in future.

[bf-110]

I once saw in Wikipedia about the presence of Blenheims in BoB,but I thought they used them as gunnery planes (like Defiant) to shoot down the Heinkels and Junkers.

[Wutz]

Another often forgotten plane was the Armstrong Whitley which was obsolete by 1940 but flew a lot of missions for bomber command throughout the Battle of Britain regardless:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Armstrong_Whitworth_Whitley_in_flight_c1940.jpg/300px-Armstrong_Whitworth_Whitley_in_flight_c1940.jpg

In many ways its sad that many aircraft that 1000's of allied crew fought and died in are forgotten purely because they lack the "glamor" to capture the public imagination.

The Short Stirling would also be nice to see eventually as well, though it didn't get into combat until Feb '41 so just missed the Battle of Britain. Allegedly despite being a 4 engined bomber the Stirling could out-turn Ju 88 and Bf 110 nightfighters.
Not just Allied planes! There are also lots of axis planes, that are almost always dropped under the table. Like the Ju86, or the Do 24 if this baby made it into the game, it would be pretty much the only plane I would fly
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/lw/norwegen/seefliegerwerft-do24-bergungsschiff.jpg

[bf-110]

Not just Allied planes! There are also lots of axis planes, that are almost always dropped under the table. Like the Ju86, or the Do 24 if this baby made it into the game, it would be pretty much the only plane I would fly
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/lw/norwegen/seefliegerwerft-do24-bergungsschiff.jpg

Ju-86,it was said to have done some secret missions...Along Ju-90...
The BV-138 and BV-222...