oleg, can we use the german 88 mm as accurate field artillery guns in BoB ?

[zapatista]

Oleg,

in one of your recent interviews for a russian tv program (clips posted in last weeks update thread) you mention the different correct ballistics programmed into the BoB simulator for various caliber projectiles and types of shells

does this mean it would now be possible to use the german 88 mm guns with the new physics model as accurate field artillery guns in BoB ? if tthey shoot "upwards" as AA guns accurately, and if the physics of the objects trajectory are correctly modeled in the game, it should then be also possible to lower that same gun and use it as an artillery piece. mission makers will have good fun placing a number of these guns together, and using them for a artillery barrage against ground based objects :)

the most important part for this is the right physics modeling of the projectile (which i think you have made great improvements in), and the other issue would be correct modeling of air resistance (depends on altitude, wind direction and strength, and weather type)

since it is reasonably straight forward to calculate how those shells should land over a given distance, it would be a good illustration in game of how accurate the sim is, and the effect of different munitions types on objects they hit (houses, tanks, and other ground objects)

starting to adapt and use some of the aircraft sim objects in a more versatile role, takes us slowly one more step into the direction of an integrated sim that involves air/ground/sea units, a common dream many of us have had for some years

please consider :)

short clip here of how versatile the gun was, and its effectiveness as artillery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C7Hl28MHio

[IceFire]

The Flak 88 in game will make short work of a tank formation given the opportunity. The AI does prioritize aircraft targets but if there are none it will fire at tanks...

Still I'm hoping that the same abilities, perhaps with a way to prioritize types of targets, will exist in Storm of War.

[WTE_Galway]

I presume what you are really asking for is HE and armor piercing ammunition for the Flak 36/37.

[zapatista]

if the german 88 with its lage shell size has an historical ccuracy up to 4000 or 5000 meters (but a 2000 m effictive range for tank killing ?), and we now have maps at historically accurate sizes, it would have neem interesting to see how accurate the game engine is in moddeling shells being fired at that range (by manually controlling the gun and firing at a known target). simply put, if you can adjust the gun manually in game, and you know the exact location of the objective you are firing on, then in the game it should land exactly where intended.

somebody here on those forums had reall life experience in a tank unit, at least 2 others in the flightsim forums i know have been in an artillery unit during their military service, it would have been good to see their feedback on how accurate oleg's sim is :)

it is much harder to do with aircraft firing at an object (because the aircraft is moving, and the shells are much smaller), similarly dropping a 250 kg or 500 kg bomb is a bit harder to compare with real life behaviour because it just makes a big bang and you cant trace the trajectory so easy.

[bf-110]

AFAIK,the 88 was used against tank and planes (bombers,I suppose).

But will we use that large babe in SoW?Or just a few types of AA will be playable?

[TeeJay82]

Dude your supposed to fly planes... not sit on the ground

[WTE_Galway]

Dude your supposed to fly planes... not sit on the ground

lol yep

... and using the gun-sight for the 88 which was a hand held version of the range finder sight used in tanks is not exactly simple either:

http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/1728/t/Ranging-Turmzielfernrohr-TZF-9b-gun-sight-optics.html

http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/33d16e137775e895c1d62684d27b7fb11565e813.gif

[zapatista]

Dude your supposed to fly planes... not sit on the ground

Tjay, that shows you are not very well informed on this sim :)

oleg intends to expand SoW with features that allow you to control some ground vehicles (including tanks), and some ships etc.. ie it is his ambition to create a fully integrated air/ground/sea ww2 environment. many of the needed components are already built into the sim engine (which is why many of the ground vehicles look so detailed, and why it has taken so long to create the new sim). most people that have followed the oleg creative trail hope these new elements will be gradually activated once the main flightsim part of the series has started bringing in money (to recover their expenses and fund future work). right now oleg has already confirmed several ground vehicles are drivable, but it looks like it wont be included yet at release time because of other bug fixing priorities and the looming release deadline.

at release time you/we will already be able to control some individual AA guns at airfields, and switch to that position in the same way you switch to another plane (or vehicle in future), so you can use them to defend airfields (or create a flak screen ?)

what oleg hasnt specified is the calibre of AA gun we can control, i had presumed it would be high altitude AA (both brittish and german) which would have meant the german 88's. it is possible however this will only be the smaller AA guns (which would not make them very effective, except against very low flying aircraft strafing an airfield)

so if we can control large AA guns like the 88's, it would be a perfect test for the game engine to do some ballistics testing by firing at a known target 4000 or 5000 m away :)

[swiss]

somebody here on those forums had reall life experience in a tank unit, at least 2 others in the flightsim forums i know have been in an artillery unit during their military service, it would have been good to see their feedback on how accurate oleg's sim is :)


Leo2A4 here.
Only, my feedback will not help at all, since a lot changed since WW2; the ammunition, let alone the invention of fire-control systems.

You can get the penetration data from wiki:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/8,8-cm-FlaK_18/36/37

tiger data: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkampfwagen_VI_Tiger_II


However, even in a modern tank the upper limit is around 2500m - you just dont expect to hit a 3m target beyond that distance.
I had a relative who served as tankdriver(Tiger, and very successful too btw) in the Wehrmacht, if remember correctly he said hitting a tank at 2000m was considered rather luck than skill.

[Letum]

oleg intends to expand SoW with features that allow you to control some ground vehicles (including tanks), and some ships etc..

Not the case AFAIK. Oleg has only said that the engine is designed so that 3rd parties could do this.
i.e. another software house could buy a license to make a tank/ship/car/etc. game or add-on using the IL2 engine. AFAIK Oleg hasn't expressed any intention to do this himself.
If I am wrong, I would like to see your source.

[Chivas]

Not the case AFAIK. Oleg has only said that the engine is designed so that 3rd parties could do this.
i.e. another software house could buy a license to make a tank/ship/car/etc. game or add-on using the IL2 engine. AFAIK Oleg hasn't expressed any intention to do this himself.
If I am wrong, I would like to see your source.

Oleg has said the SOW engine has been designed for tank/ship/car/etc. BUT he did not say who would be doing the development. In SOW's initial release I'm sure we could see us having access to AAA guns like the 88, and if its as detailed as other equipment, you should be able to lower the barrel and use it on whatever you wish.

A full combined arms sim is something we will see after most of the air theaters are completed. I'm sure Oleg will want to do a major part of this development also, as he is doing in the air theaters. With 3 parties having access to parts of the development he deems necessary, or profitable.

This of course won't happen unless the first installments of SOW are successfull.

[TeeJay82]

Teejay, that shows you are not very well informed on this sim :)

ye ive figured he plans to expand with different plattforms of vehicles

again... your supposed to fly planes :P
its the meaning of life..
if you wanna sit on the ground and poke around... go take your car for a spin :P