same stupid issue like in Mow ... PLEASE FIX : /

[Crni vuk]

Tigers, Kingtigers, Jagdtigers, Pershings etc. all taking again ... side shots without effect.

Why is that : /

PLEASE THIS WAS ALREADY BAD IN MOW !!! PLEASE CHANGE THAT FOR ASSAULT SQUAD !

If it happens that you dont know what I mean, situations where you happen to flank a Kingtiger for example, loading ap or aprc shells even (now possible with assault squad), get a PERFECT! shoot to the side of the Tiger II ... to see nothing happen at all. It roates its turret while you reload, shoots and youre dead (or your tank gets killed by infantry or what ever ...). THis is EXTREMLY frustrating AND unrealistic. Same with the Pershing when engaged by a Panzer IV for example. To many times you strange enough take out the tracks (sometimes on the OTHER side of the vehicle ...) but not the tank itself.

Please, again try to change that. Its already hard enough to get in the flank of tanks give us a chance to take out the heavy tanks in a realistic fashion ! I am not asking for easy kills, just to remove something which I think is rather just arcade then realistic. To many times you see the "hull pearced" apearing but the vehicle still intact ! That is not very supportive to the gameplay when the enemy has some heavy vehicles you have no chance to take out from the front. Particularly as both the 76mm and 90mm gun by the US or the 75mm high velocity guns by the Axis should have NO trouble to penetrate the sides of most if not all vehicles. I know you are suposed to eventualy overcome vehicles like a Tiger II or Jagdtiger with "tactics", but how to deploy those tactics when the game seems to react in such strange behaviour. Trying to distract a Tiger II with a Sherman jumbo for example while advancing in his flank with a M36 ... I shoot him 2 times ! With no effect. Later I tried it with the M10, beeing quite close. Same again ... nothing. Even with the APCR.

*just on a side note ... how comes that when I choose the APCR the tank load the HE shell first ... not very good, you loose a few seconds that way which can decide about life or death.

[Korsakov829]

More realistic gameplay for sure. You can take a Tiger out in the rear with a few point blank shots from a 37mm.

[Crni vuk]

More realistic gameplay for sure. You can take a Tiger out in the rear with a few point blank shots from a 37mm.
Now thats strange. The Tiger 1 beeing a vehicle which got almost as much protection in the rear like with the front (at least 80mm) so it should not be taken out by the 37mm ! Not even in the best conditions. Probably the 75mm from the Sherman would even strugle with that. The 37mm should realisticaly not even have a great chance to take out the chains of a hveavy tank. But how to take out the tracks of a tank is a story for it self as certain vehicles have been known to posses very good tracks which are hard to take out. The Tiger 1 beeing one of those vehicles. Well thats at least what you can read from Tiger 1 veterans during combat. Even direct hits to the tracks by 75 or 76mm guns would many times not result in a loost track. Damage yes. But not imobilisation.

[Korsakov829]

And about 6 months ago a King Tiger with a 57mm from the T34/57. Place the gun barrel so that it is directly targeting the target. It took 3-6 shots to the exact same place. I couldn't get anywhere with the 20mm though.

[Crni vuk]

well the 57mm had quite good penetration for its caliber. I assume the side might be vulnerable. But I do not know it for sure. I guess one would have to get extremly close for that.

Problem is that many times in MoW I would find my self using the T34/57 taking out tigers instead of flanking them with a heavier gun by the T34/85 as if you loose the 57mm version its no loos, if you can destroy the heavy tank though its a great win which is leading to rather strange and unrealistic situations. If anything the 57mm should be more in use against medium German tanks but that it can somewhat already penetrate the Hetzer from the front is rather questionable.

I say give any guns of calibers higher then 70mm and with long barrels (making it clear anti tank guns) a better chance of cracking tanks from the side. If you get in the correct range of course. The real issue should be more accuracy, not the penetration.

[Nikitns]

check out dms forums mate, the 1C forum is dead.

[szebus]

It is not dad, but a good transit for newcomers.

[Korsakov829]

Anti tank wise the T34/57 was better then the T34/76. MoW is the most advanced RTS game out there, and being that far ahead it will be some years for it to be perfect. As is it is very good.

[Crni vuk]

Anti tank wise the T34/57 was better then the T34/76. MoW is the most advanced RTS game out there, and being that far ahead it will be some years for it to be perfect. As is it is very good.
Penetration yes, here the 76mm could not beat it. But question is how much damage a 57mm can do compard to a 76mm which has a larger size. Penetration is penetration, and a 57 will very likely cause some damage after it enter the crew compartment. But it has a reason why the 57mm hanst seen any wide spreed use except for a few rare conversions and anti tank guns. The 76mm was many times prefered for its better qualities with high explosive shells which have been seen as more important then the penetration qualities which havnt been that bad either if you consider that most of the tanks in that time on the axis side have been made of Panzer IVs with short guns and the Panzer III which could be destroyed by either the KV1 or T34/76 rather easily. Only with the Panthers, Tigers and upguned versions of the Panzer IV this changed eventually leading to the decision to adopt the 85mm gun in to service for the SU85 (1943) and the T34 (1944). Particularly the Tiger 1 was it which forced here a change seeing as how it made the 76mm gun in the field obsolete so only the 85mm gun would have a chance of penetrating the Tiger 1 on usual combat ranges like 700 meters. Though of course only if the hit was straight to the front without any angle.
The 57mm was "good", but in reality it suffered from amunition of rather poor quality.

[Korsakov829]

Used mainly as a tank destroyer, getting good penetration on an engine or fuel tank would be enough to destroy a heavy tank like the Tiger or King Tiger wouldn't it? Which is what I did.

[KnightFandragon]

*just on a side note ... how comes that when I choose the APCR the tank load the HE shell first ... not very good, you loose a few seconds that way which can decide about life or death.


Yeah, it does that because hte ammo scrolls through the list instead of going where you click...its best to just map a switch ammo key and tap that, from AP to APCR is 2 taps....its annoying none the less and prolly my least favorite thing ive seen in AS.

Otherwise AS to me just seems like MoW with better looking models. THe combat is much the same except now it seems like in a High Point Games (6000+) Germans win, in low point games (3000ish) Allies win. I say this because the Panzer IVH still is a sad excuse for a medium tank, its gun anyway, im not going to say it had great armor b/c it didnt really but its gun should punch through any Sherman, save for the Jumbo, with ease....1 hit yeah....something like that. And in Low point games the Germans cant get anything bigger then a Panzy IV H, or so I thought I saw. While the Americans are able to spam thier Shermans which way out class the Panzy IV, the Germans will prolly never get thier King TIgers unless in 3K games you just sit and wait for it....not much help to your team. Then in High Point games the Germans can now spam ther King TIger and the Allies have no hope vs like 6 King Tigers....which....yes....ive seen an entire army of King TIgers, Panthers and Jagdpanthers....the Allieds lost.....badly.....

Then to boot, is it my imagination or did I seriously see the Allieds with Pershings in a no heavy tank match? Do the Germans get thier Jagdpanther and Panther in NO Heavy tank match? I know the Pershing and Panther were classified Mediums but the Pershing was called heavy for like morale boosters and stuff.....Anywho, I still saw a Pershing in a No Heavy tank match while the Germans fielded only like 1 or 2 Jagdpanthers....

All that aside, it still looks nice and will rock just like MoW =D

[Korsakov829]

How can you possibly like it? Its just a mod for Men of War.

[Crni vuk]

well its not a bad game for itself. Many smaller changes here and there which are great in my eyes. The mortars are not as powerfull anymore. The infantry survives much more now as the artillery is a rather tactical tool now. It shoots only in barrages and after it is done it recharges so you are not constantly shelled by artillery just for some time. Its better that way since you have to pick your targets. Doesnt mean artillery is useless. Still a very powerfull weapon.

Tank combat is "better" in some way and "worse" in othres. I cant see how people love the "crew injured" feature where a shell penetrates but kills half of the crew inside the enemy vehicle without any damage at all to the vehicle. This is particularly frustrating when you have a situation where you get with the achiles, m10 or M18 in the flank of a heavy tank, penetrate it and see it rotate destroying your vehicle in the first shoot. Not very great. It makes flanking pretty hard sometimes which I dont like. Flanking should be easy, once you managed to penetrate the front.

The part which I like about the combat is that the ranges play now a much more important role. Though I think they have exagerated it a bit, its like all units with the long 88mm gun can shoot about 180m, while the 90mm from the US only 160 (I think). NO clue how its with the rest of the guns. I find that a bit strange. But "ok". Could be worse I guess ...

One of the other changes are the hero units which I think are a great choice. Except for the hero infantry (Brandenburger, Panzergrenadiere etc.) which I find more or less useless. Before spending points for them its better to use them for the veteran tiger for example. But well thats me.

[firearms2k]

Penetration yes, here the 76mm could not beat it. But question is how much damage a 57mm can do compard to a 76mm which has a larger size. Penetration is penetration, and a 57 will very likely cause some damage after it enter the crew compartment. But it has a reason why the 57mm hanst seen any wide spreed use except for a few rare conversions and anti tank guns. The 76mm was many times prefered for its better qualities with high explosive shells which have been seen as more important then the penetration qualities which havnt been that bad either if you consider that most of the tanks in that time on the axis side have been made of Panzer IVs with short guns and the Panzer III which could be destroyed by either the KV1 or T34/76 rather easily. Only with the Panthers, Tigers and upguned versions of the Panzer IV this changed eventually leading to the decision to adopt the 85mm gun in to service for the SU85 (1943) and the T34 (1944). Particularly the Tiger 1 was it which forced here a change seeing as how it made the 76mm gun in the field obsolete so only the 85mm gun would have a chance of penetrating the Tiger 1 on usual combat ranges like 700 meters. Though of course only if the hit was straight to the front without any angle.
The 57mm was "good", but in reality it suffered from amunition of rather poor quality.

Just have to quote you quickly here, the 85MM gun can not penetrate a Tiger from that distance(700M). It's closer to 200-500 meters, frontally. Sides don't make too much of a difference there either, since they're still quite well protected. IS-2's were more effective, but the Germans still managed to take them on.


Otherwise, I find Hero Units just to be "free emergency units that unlock overtime." The way Germany currently plays, they need to get elite infantry to stand a chance against even the bare basic infantry of the US. So you're alocating a lot more points to infantry, and then you are pretty much hard-pressed for that Veteran Tiger. But what's the point in that, when the US still have their Special Unit points to get Jumbo 76's, and still have the remainder points to spend on their standard selection of tanks? Of course this is speaking to a standard game setting view, I really don't bother playing specific gamemodes.

[Crni vuk]

Just have to quote you quickly here, the 85MM gun can not penetrate a Tiger from that distance(700M). It's closer to 200-500 meters, frontally. Sides don't make too much of a difference there either, since they're still quite well protected. IS-2's were more effective, but the Germans still managed to take them on.
.
Depends about the amunition we are talking about and its quality. Only with late 1944 would the Soviets really get their hands on reliable amunition in good quality ~ though neither mow or as really factor in the quality of it, situations like "shatter gab" or the rockwell hardness of shell casings for example which was some issue for a few guns.

And well to say that its not really clear at which point you will penetrate and when not most sources say that its "theoreticaly" possible for the Soviet 85mm to penetrate the front armor of the Tiger 1 from up to 800 meters. But I do question which quality the amunition had. Testing with the best conditions possible doesnt mean it will happen always that way (as how the allies realizied with testing the Panther in isigny where some had very good armor and would even hold out the 17pf and 76mm guns while panthers with average or not so well done armor would get penetrated). And its not like you get in the range of 800 meters and suddenly you will penetrate, sometimes you could be in 801 meters and have success. Other times maybe you need 750m (considering your gun and amunition had the optimum). Depending which angle, maybe even the temperature and preasure or how many shells you have already fired! Balistics and penetrations regardless if with tanks or small arms are a very complex topic from what I can read.

[Parkaboy]

Ok just to let those of you who don't know.

IT'S A GAME it is not supposed to be a scaled down real life version of the real world, because that wouldn't be a balanced game.

And this is an old thread and so really has nothing to do with the last patch.

ps Korsakov829 RE How can you possibly like it? Its just a mod for Men of War.

It's clear you don't know what you are talking about.

[Crni vuk]

and this is a free forum where people can share and discuss their oppinion. Instead of telling us the obvoius (that its a game) why not say a bit more then just that ? Or just ignore if it is a "old" thread already. I mean I dont have issues with people who disagree. But I dont see any point in your comment.

[SpeedWolf]

check out dms forums mate, the 1C forum is dead.

To:Nikitns
I'm sure he is here because of the bullies in DMS who is trolling everybody that have a opinion about Assault Squad.

To:Crnivuk
May i suggest when you post a topic in DMS to put up a poll in your topic like my friend Evilsausage did here (http://www.digitalmindsoft.eu/forums/viewtopic.php?f=148&t=8719) .

This is the only way to show if people support your idea or not without needing to comment. because we know what happen when we give a opinion about Assault Squad.

as for your topic here. this what i have to say.

you will have to be lucky. you will not always kill a tank in one shot from the side every time.

i don't think it need to be change but of course is my own opinion and i will not bully you to agree with me unlike some people we know in DMS.:)

[CzaD]

"I'm sure he is here because of the bullies in DMS who is trolling everybody that have a opinion about Assault Squad."

Can't agree more. I am fed up with DMS forum. I tried to be helpful and supportive. But if moderators and admins can't think of another idea rather than closing threads, I don't see any point of posting anything there. Nothing stops the same few troublemakers from waging flame wars in order to get any thread they don't like closed. It is sad coz it is a forum where the devs are supposed to meet the players and discuss ideas. Atm, every new topic is spammed by the same few people and I don't see new players joining in the discussion, despite the fact the Steam community is constantly growing.

[SpeedWolf]

Can't agree more. I am fed up with DMS forum. I tried to be helpful and supportive. But if moderators and admins can't think of another idea rather than closing threads, I don't see any point of posting anything there. Nothing stops the same few troublemakers from waging flame wars in order to get any thread they don't like closed. It is sad coz it is a forum where the devs are supposed to meet the players and discuss ideas. Atm, every new topic is spammed by the same few people and I don't see new players joining in the discussion, despite the fact the Steam community is constantly growing.


I am a exclusive tester as well under a different name and i can tell you this that the same 3 bullies are doing the same in the exclusive tester forum as well.

even that i don't agree with your idea here about the side shot. it's your right to have a polite opinion even if 99% of the people disagree with you.

but why this 3 bullies have to go to everybody topic and calling everybody that have a opinion/suggestion about assault squad. a "noob" or "you don't know what your talking about" or "your a troll" they even go as far as calling someone a thief and a criminal by saying that they're playing a illegal copy of the game.

someone need to post a topic here about the bullies/troll in DMS because nobody can have a friendly/polite discussion without this 3 bullies/troll in it without making it in to something else.

[CzaD]

even that i don't agree with your idea here about the side shot.

What do you mean?

For myself, I complained about the situation to a DMS moderator who said nothing can be done about it at the moment.

[SpeedWolf]

What do you mean?

I was speaking about your topic that the gun don't always kill a tank from the side.

[CzaD]

Could you post a link, pls? I can't remember any topics like that.
Anyway, I guess your main point is that it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree or like or dislike a topic, what matters is that bahaviour on DMS forum must improve to stop threads from being closed.

[SpeedWolf]

Could you post a link, pls? I can't remember any topics like that.
Anyway, I guess your main point is that it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree or like or dislike a topic, what matters is that bahaviour on DMS forum must improve to stop threads from being closed.

I was talking about this one or i misunderstood your topic.

as for Digitalmindsoft forum i don't know is was not always like this. before when someone make a flam war both party got ban for a month in the Digitalmindsoft forum.

maybe because they paid for the BETA that they can get away with their bad behavior.

[Crni vuk]

To:Nikitns
I'm sure he is here because of the bullies in DMS who is trolling everybody that have a opinion about Assault Squad.


Thank you for your very kind words :)

And yeah I know what you mean with the situation you explained. Though to say that I registered here first back before As was in development. I just thought it would be the only forum regarding mow and its expansions.

On the other side. I mean as said I dont dissagree with people who have a different oppinion as long they explain their point and have some logic behind it. And even if I do NOT share the point one can always agree to dissagree in a respectfull maner. There certainly is no "correct" way to play a game like Mow just your oppinion what you personaly think might work best in the end (I mean the game is NOT a simulation afterall, a complex RTS that for sure). So when I make a point I dont say that I am right and others are now wrong. But hey I love argue what should I say :-P

The only thing I REALLY dissliked was (as you explained) the people which get in, say something like "its useless yada yada yada, just learn flanking yada yada, if you alow them Kingtiger you have done something wrong or never play games with high resources etc. etc." as like its the magical answer to everything. Of course sure we could talk about everything and always stop everything with such kind of arguments. But I think a healthy discussion is more worth then a forum where everything goes like a game is perfect. And actualy I am surprised how many people seriously think that both Mow and As would use "realistic" data for the tanks penetration making it equal to a simulation O.o