Friday 2010-11-26 Dev. update and Discussion

[Oleg Maddox]

Hi all,

Today is a hard day... I'm too tired, computer doesn't run well, wheather is bad, etc...
So today is a tiny update. Next probably will be much better. And I know about the bug that is visible on the shot with Hurricane :)
:)
Couple of backgrounds from the game menus and 3 shots:

[SlipBall]

That second shot looks great, also the separation of the wing is very cool:grin:

[MaD88]

Wow... I really like the London picture... and the grounded plane with all the grass around! :grin:

[_RAAF_Smouch]

Great series of shots Oleg.

Cheers mate.

[Jaguar]

Sorry that all is not well. Even the smallest of updates are appreciated by me. Get well soon as you can. Mabey its time for you and your family only this weekend.

[HB252]

Hi Oleg, Luthier and temwork guys!!

GREAT job again.

The 1 and 2 shots the atmosphere is very good,its seems almost reality.

In the 3 and 4ht shot I can see a crew member bailing out. In the 4 shot the crew member looks like falls out of control, i like that, no a controled position of bailing out (whit legs and arms extendeds). I can not think that after a hard fight some pilot o crew member can bailing out in a stable position.

The last shotis simply amazing.

Thanks Oleg

[Rodolphe]

...

Hi all,

Today is a hard day... I'm too tired, computer doesn't run well, wheather is bad, etc...
So today is a tiny update. Next probably will be much better. And I know about the bug that is visible on the shot with Hurricane :)
:)
Couple of backgrounds from the game menus and 3 shots:


Thanks ;)


...

[Daniël]

Nice! I don't see any tracks and mud by the Hurricane, but it's WIP of course.

[Dano]

That looks like how I'm going to end up a lot of the time, really feel for that pilot :(

I'm guessing that the tree doesn't have a collision model (I'm sure Oleg's said something about this but cannot remember what) otherwise I can't see how the Hurricane would have the other wing either or am I barking up the wrong tree there?

Looks great to me, status normal, cannot wait to fly this :)

[Feathered_IV]

I'm having a day just like it. Thanks Oleg for taking the time to show us something new and cheer up the rest of us. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you. ;)

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Cheers for update Oleg, we all have 'one of those days' lol.....we are snowed under in my part of England too, but I love snow anyway hehe; I should move to Russia! :)

+1 on the second shot, looks great and the clouds are looking very impressive. I like the grass/reeds surrounding the crashed Hurricane too. :)

Oleg, I know you are not a big fan of force feedback, but you mentioned a while ago that there was a possibility it could be 're-worked' in future, as new tech like the G940 has been released. I do not expect this on first release, but it would be great if it could be done somewhere down the line. FFB has pro's and cons, and can never be fully 'realistic', I accept. But a lot of people do use it, and in some ways it adds a lot to immersion. (silly cannon vibrations etc aside.) Do you have any further comments on this? (when you are feeling better of course, no hurry.)

Also, will dual GPU cards see any benefit in SOW? I'm hoping you can answer this as SOW seems to be not too far from release.

Thanks kindly.

[Desode]

Thanks for the update Oleg.
These friday morning updates make my week, and these are some Great Shots !
I hope your day gets better.
Sincerely, Desode

[Col.Flanders]

Thanks again for our Friday fix!

Shots one and two are splash screens surely? The difference in quality of clouds as just one example is enormous. Shot one, especially, looks like a painting with regard to things like detail in faces of crew and overall softness.

[Dano]

Thanks again for our Friday fix!

Shots one and two are splash screens surely? The difference in quality of clouds as just one example is enormous. Shot one, especially, looks like a painting with regard to things like detail in faces of crew and overall softness.
It's right there in Oleg's post.
Couple of backgrounds from the game menus and 3 shots:

[Katkatman]

In fifth shot the pilote looks slighty leaned on the left side.
Doesn't the pilots corp will interact with the aircraft position ?

[Col.Flanders]

It's right there in Oleg's post.

Oh, sorry. I read his post before he edited and only just got to reply now.

[Oleg Maddox]

In fifth shot the pilote looks slighty leaned on the left side.
Doesn't the pilots corp will interact with the aircraft position ?

interacting a bit :) It is visible well in a cocpit, say, of two seater... :)

[sorak]

Cheers for update Oleg, we all have 'one of those days' lol.....we are snowed under in my part of England too, but I love snow anyway hehe; I should move to Russia! :)

+1 on the second shot, looks great and the clouds are looking very impressive. I like the grass/reeds surrounding the crashed Hurricane too. :)

Oleg, I know you are not a big fan of force feedback, but you mentioned a while ago that there was a possibility it could be 're-worked' in future, as new tech like the G940 has been released. I do not expect this on first release, but it would be great if it could be done somewhere down the line. FFB has pro's and cons, and can never be fully 'realistic', I accept. But a lot of people do use it, and in some ways it adds a lot to immersion. (silly cannon vibrations etc aside.) Do you have any further comments on this?

Also, will dual GPU cards see any benefit in SOW? I'm hoping you can answer this as SOW seems to be not too far from release.

Thanks kindly.


+1 I feel the same about Force feedback. Especially for this year of planes. I know it cant be fully realistic but does add immersion. I would love an updated/improvement in the force feedback as well somewhere down the line.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nice update. Thank you. Have a nice weekend and get some rest.

[Meusli]

Are shots one and two artists paintings? If not then WOW! Also the last shot shows some different grass than what we have seen before, looks like the best grass I have seen (not straight but bendy).

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

They are splash screens Meusli, I was spoofed too! :grin: I thought it was in game as the buildings below seem to be in game renders, and I thought the flak was too. Seems the clouds are not.....thought it might be too good to be true. :)

[zxwings]

It seems to me that in today's update the long trail of black smoke from a damaged aircraft looks more beautiful than bofore. :)

[ivagiglie]

And I know about the bug that is visible on the shot with Hurricane :)


You mean the tree position and the perfect wing on the same side?
I think you could manage to reach that position after cartwheeling if you really try hard :D

By the way, are we going to see more airplanes in the air at the same time soon?

I like a lot how the screenshots have been improving lately, the only thing that is still bugging me is if in SoW we won't be able to see ~100 planes in the same mission.
Give us big raids, Oleg!!

Thanks for the update and have a nice weekend.

[Sutts]

Nice update Oleg thanks. Time for some well deserved rest I think.

Love the crash scene and the guy tumbling from the burning bomber. The flames look great streaming back from the wing too. Nice details like the jettisoned escape hatch.

May I ask....will we sometimes see flames with very little or no smoke at all? I've seen plenty of original footage where burning aircraft do not trail smoke. I posted a few in this thread a while ago.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=168098&postcount=132

Thanks:grin:

[mr71mb0]

Thanks for taking the effort to post this update Oleg, despite the troubles you stated.

Looks great.

[Daniël]

You mean the tree position and the perfect wing on the same side?


There are 4 things that aren't right:
1. No tracks and mud
2. It looks like there is gras coming out of the front of the plane
3. The landing light on the broken wing is perfectly visible, but the rest of the wing isn't as good visible as the landing light due the gras.
4. The wing of course, but mayby the airplane is glided diagonally (sorry I don't know how to say that good)

A nice detail: The pilot seems to be unconscious.

[rakinroll]

Thank you Oleg.

[kimosabi]

Thank you Oleg.

Gonna have to agree with this, I'm afraid.

[ECV56_Lancelot]

If i'm not mistaken, the fire has been improved. I never complained how it was before because it was good enough for me, but some people did, hope they are more convinced now.
Nice shots and thanks for the update!

[kristorf]

Many thanks, any update is welcomed, so again, thanks.

[raf]

great job!! I like the details of the grass and trees in the last pic

[Friendly_flyer]

Beautiful shots Oleg, the two first ones are very atmospheric! I hope you and the team have a nice weekend and get well rested!

[BadAim]

I hate those days, Oleg. Sounds like a perfect storm of "**** happening". Seriously, take the weekend off and enjoy some time with your family, SOW will still be there when you get back. (and so will we)

On the bright side, the screenies are fantastic! I'm really hoping you can get this baby out before work picks up for me in the late spring, I'm gonna really need some "quality time" with SOW.

[McHilt]

:rolleyes: ...nice! :mrgreen:

[klem]

Hi all,

Today is a hard day... I'm too tired, computer doesn't run well, wheather is bad, etc...
So today is a tiny update............

Oleg, I can't find this question being asked before but will SoW be geared towards NvIdia's "The Way Its Meant To Be Played" technology?

Hope you can say.

[kingpinda]

I've been looking at these updates for some time now and i really really can't wait untill this massive sim finally releases!!! But i will have to be patient. It looks stunning and brilliant and what not!! Good job!!

One thing though. I see a few messages about forcefeedback here and that it can't be realistic and its ok its not in final release and may be added and such.. I highly disagree!

In fact it will sadden me and I will be forced to postpone my purchase untill FF will be implemented.

The Logitech G940 is by no means "new" its a year old by now and FF equipment has been around for some time.

In my opinion Force Feedback is a lot more realistic in second worldwar crates than in modern aircraft. Modern aircraft handling are taken over by automated sytems and only require input.

I have only flew once now in a prop plane and you could definately feel the forces around you. The wind on the airelons etc. this type was flown by a yoke but the effects would seem similair. Alas i wasnt allowed to land or take off :p So i wouldnt know if the forces on the stick would be less on lower speeds etc but I imagine this to be true. But I will let the pro's decide on that. I don't need fancy effects but I would like to "Feel" the crate. Just like when I drive my car. Anyone who has rode on a highway with high cross windspeeds will have noticed that you need to put more counterpressure on the wheel.

[Jotaele]

Love the painting, are those ones screenshots overpainted?
And the crashed hurricaine, the grass with the shadow creates an awesome effect.I think that kind of detail are neccesary to create en envolving experience, so we are not going to lose the feel of being in a big world when crashlanding or in the take off, inclusive in low flying.Its going to be great for having a ground distance reference.
The color palette its being better each friday.
I wish the 1c them have a good rest thisweekend.You deserve it guys.

:mrgreen:

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

I've been looking at these updates for some time now and i really really can't wait untill this massive sim finally releases!!! But i will have to be patient. It looks stunning and brilliant and what not!! Good job!!

One thing though. I see a few messages about forcefeedback here and that it can't be realistic and its ok its not in final release and may be added and such.. I highly disagree!

In fact it will sadden me and I will be forced to postpone my purchase untill FF will be implemented.

The Logitech G940 is by no means "new" its a year old by now and FF equipment has been around for some time.

In my opinion Force Feedback is a lot more realistic in second worldwar crates than in modern aircraft. Modern aircraft handling are taken over by automated sytems and only require input.

I have only flew once now in a prop plane and you could definately feel the forces around you. The wind on the airelons etc. this type was flown by a yoke but the effects would seem similair. Alas i wasnt allowed to land or take off :p So i wouldnt know if the forces on the stick would be less on lower speeds etc but I imagine this to be true. But I will let the pro's decide on that. I don't need fancy effects but I would like to "Feel" the crate. Just like when I drive my car. Anyone who has rode on a highway with high cross windspeeds will have noticed that you need to put more counterpressure on the wheel.

Hi Kingpinda. :) Yes the G940 is not 'last week' new, but its still new tech all the same. I still have my old MSFFB2. The problem is not the hardware, it is developer will to improve its implementation, the code for FFB is ancient and not very good in IL-2 IMO, understandable of course as it is very old now.

FFB will definitely be in Pinda, its just that we will be probably at least initially be stuck with what we have in IL-2 at the moment, which could be a lot better.

Yes I'd agree its all about 'feeling' the crate, particularly control surface resistance at higher airspeeds etc.....I'm with you on that. :)

So hopefully its ok. NOT

Cheers.

[Hecke]

There are 4 things that aren't right:
1. No tracks and mud


Yes, it's a bit like the hurri has been teleported there.

[He111]

Burning He111s look excellent especially how the fire burns through the skin.

.

[EV401_Wolf]

All weeks say the same :) : Can`t wait fly this :grin: :grin: .... I hope not too old to when the phrase becomes a reality... :-P:-P:-P

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

ok it's ready!!!

i buy it!

can we have it now pretty please!! :)

eh?



eh?

[Redwan]

Good job, good job !

The grass is fantastic ! Perfect ! Nothing to say !!!
Everything looks perfect except the clouds.

Talking about clouds, I noticed that on the screen representing London and Big Ben, the cloud seem very realistic, almost like a picture ! If BoB clouds are like that it will be for sure the most beautiful whether effect ever seen in a flight sim !
But I’m not sure that this screen is an in game shot and it looks rather like some BoB-Art screen with the dark effect on the top. What's that ?

[Truppen]

A question, the BOB controls the filter antialisin and anisotropic inside the controls, in order that it is not across the control panel of the graphical card.

I wait with unpatience for the launch,
Regards and excuses for my English evil

[Hunden]

The clouds in the London shot look very good maybe even a couple of flat bottom ones.

[studenteternal]

Burning He111s look excellent especially how the fire burns through the skin.

.

Burning He111s allways look nice though :grin:

[arjisme]

There are 4 things that aren't right:
1. No tracks and mud
2. It looks like there is gras coming out of the front of the plane
3. The landing light on the broken wing is perfectly visible, but the rest of the wing isn't as good visible as the landing light due the gras.
4. The wing of course, but mayby the airplane is glided diagonally (sorry I don't know how to say that good)

A nice detail: The pilot seems to be unconscious.
The two things that I wondered about are:
1. Prop blade not damaged/bent.
2. Left wing cleanly separated (is that correct?).

[Sutts]

The clouds in the London shot look very good maybe even a couple of flat bottom ones.

Please read Oleg's words carefully guys. These are splash screens from the menu.

[Daniël]

The two things that I wondered about are:
1. Prop blade not damaged/bent.
2. Left wing cleanly separated (is that correct?).

1. Probably the engine failed before landing, so the propellor didn't move, so not all blades hit the ground.
2.I don't know (weak welds maybe:wink:)

[Robert]

Thanks Oleg. Those backgrounds are gonna look nice on my PC. I love the lighting of the jumping 111 pilot picture.

I hope all is okay. Take care of yourself.

[Bearcat]

Nice shots.. That one over London is just .. so far ahead of anything currently available when you look closely at the level of detail..

[bf-110]

The first,second and last SSs...Oh,man!

The first one is the most impressive,the details of the weather.
That was something I wanted to see.How SoW weather will be.

[Flying_Nutcase]

Loving the shot of the downed Hurricane. It looks natural. Nice work Oleg and crew!

[AdMan]

dp

[AdMan]

shot 2

not in-game??? :(

[kalimba]

The clouds over the London city shot :grin:....Would that be a first glance at the new weather system ? ;)

Beautiful !

Salute !

[Sutts]

The clouds over the London city shot :grin:....Would that be a first glance at the new weather system ? ;)

Beautiful !

Salute !

Come on guys, read the text Oleg provided for goodness sake!

The first 2 shots are just pictures, NOT from the game. London, weather, aircraft...nothing to do with the live action at all.

[Insuber]

Come on guys, read the text Oleg provided for goodness sake!

The first 2 shots are just pictures, NOT from the game. London, weather, aircraft...nothing to do with the live action at all.

I would say that they are screenshots reworked in Photoshop. Am I right, Oleg?

[heywooood]

nice shots Oleg, thanks for keeping the Friday Updates going.

looking forward the next 'bigger' update ahead

the lighting, weather, and engine fire/smoke effect look terrific as does the battle damage and overall atmospheric modeling that is apparent from these few shots.

any chance of an ingame cockpit screenshot looking through gunsight reticle whilst firing at a target aircraft? Hurri, Spit, 109, doesn't matter

also - in Wings of Prey - there is something called 'blur' which adds a sense of speed by 'blurring' the textures of the passing terrain to either side of the center of POV in the cockpit....will your sim offer this feature as an option?

I'm also curious about rain in SOW - will there be a rain effect on the windscreen/canopy glazing and can we see a WIP shot of that from inside the cockpit inflight?

I hope my asking these questions will not cause Ilya to cancel the project...haha

[C_G]

The Hurri pic it just lovely... though that grass bug is definitely going to require squashing!

It would be nice to see the grass leading to the final resting place of the Hurri flattened down, but I can live without that level of detail... perhaps something for a patch a year or two down the road?

[C_G]

OFF TOPIC will get you a minimum 1 week ban in SOW update threads

[lbuchele]

It's starting to scare me the level of photorealism of this sim...

[heywooood]

smoke the grass and it won't be scary anymore....

and I agree - the environments and atmospherics being illustrated are most impressive...proper lighting is critical and so far SOW looks to be well lit

[Towarisch]

Dear Mr. Oleg and Team,

first: GREAT JOB, GREAT GAME, GREAT PICTURES (Update)
second: dont worry, be happy:). cause we have no other weather , here. It`s cold and snowing, actuallity......brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..brrr...shl otter:) well it´s winter.

But.....


CHRISTMASTIME;)


And to the Probs of Computers: Maybe its a gift from your wife (Angel););)





Oleg.....one word ...........THANK YOU FOR YOUR GREAT WORK, and to your TEAM. Have a silent and nice weekend.



Towarisch

[Old_Canuck]

I'll second the question: "will SoW benefit from an extra video card?" Was hoping that two GTX 480s would be better than one.

Thanks for posting despite your hardships, Oleg. These Friday updates are always a good start for the day :-)

[Stiboo]

But seriously folks…

It's very important whatever walk of life we're in to take a good rest and a break, that includes too much time playing on the PC !


Oleg, have you taken any good photos of the weather ?


Hope the game is out before the Royal Wedding...an extra bank holiday to play SoW !

OFF TOPIC will get you a minimum 1 week ban in SOW update threads

[kalimba]

Come on guys, read the text Oleg provided for goodness sake!

The first 2 shots are just pictures, NOT from the game. London, weather, aircraft...nothing to do with the live action at all.


Backgrounds ...What makes you conclude that these are not from the game, with some photoshop or something ?
Oleg said that the weather system, including clouds were almost done and needed to be integrated in the engine...Therefore my question: would that be a first glance at what is coming...
And if I am wrong, well Oleg will tell me...If he thinks my question is way off, well, he'll ignore it...Simple , no ?

Salute

[McHilt]

Backgrounds ...What makes you conclude that these are not from the game, with some photoshop or something ?
Oleg said that the weather system, including clouds were almost done and needed to be integrated in the engine...Therefore my question: would that be a first glance at what is coming...
And if I am wrong, well Oleg will tell me...If he thinks my question is way off, well, he'll ignore it...Simple , no ?

Salute

Yeah, well I do believe these are shots taken from the game, at least it looks like it, the trees, buildings. The clouds...??
I think, just a hunch, that the cottonballs are a placeholder for sth totally wonderful... seeing all the stuff being so realistic I can't imagine the final clouds being the cottonballs we've seen so far, but we'll see, it's a mysterious shot anyway :)

[kalimba]

Yeah,
I think, just a hunch, that the cottonballs are a placeholder for sth totally wonderful... seeing all the stuff being so realistic I can't imagine the final clouds being the cottonballs we've seen so far, but we'll see. :)

Exactly...Placeholders I am sure of that...Because Oleg did mention that final clouds and other features were done by only one guy in his team...That's why it took a while, and his work was not yet intergrated in SOW's engine...But maybe it is now but not ready for playabilty , but ok for screenshots....;)
So that picture could show some of the new clouds system....

Salute !

[mazex]

Bugs, what are you talking about? Shouldn't the landing lights have a backup battery and turn on if the wing gets disconnected from the fuselage?

[tourmaline]

Smoking grass and flying don't go well together.

Eating grass however the first couple of flights of the new sim is more likely though!

It really is comming together nicely now. Great Job Oleg and team!
By the way, all over Europe the cold is hitting hard.

Some people predicted about -40 for Russia, Brrrr...Turn up the heating...

smoke the grass and it won't be scary anymore....

and I agree - the environments and atmospherics being illustrated are most impressive...proper lighting is critical and so far SOW looks to be well lit

[Hunden]

Please read Oleg's words carefully guys. These are splash screens from the menu.

Read my words carefully I never suggested they were in game shots, learn to read between the lines.:grin:

[McHilt]

Bugs, what are you talking about? Shouldn't the landing lights have a backup battery and turn on if the wing gets disconnected from the fuselage?


:mrgreen: If the wing gets disconnected from the fuselage you don't need a landing light, let alone a backup battery for one. :)

[SlipBall]

I was just looking again at shot #5, the torn metal of the wing section that is aft, really looks realistic. And the grass burning is getting me high on this sim:grin:

[Skoshi Tiger]

I was just looking at the detail of the trim tabs on the Hurricane in shot 5. to me it looks like they is modeled seperately to the rudder and elevator.

Will the models of the trim tabs move in response to the cockpit trim control?

Thank you for the update!

[CRO_Adriatic]

First two are something speciall.

[kendo65]

Exactly...Placeholders I am sure of that...Because Oleg did mention that final clouds and other features were done by only one guy in his team...That's why it took a while, and his work was not yet intergrated in SOW's engine...But maybe it is now but not ready for playabilty , but ok for screenshots....;)
So that picture could show some of the new clouds system....


Looks to me like the background in that pic (ie the clouds) is a photograph that has been photoshopped in. All the rest of the elements (buildings, aircraft, balloons, flak) are from the game. (I'd be delighted to be proved wrong about the clouds though, but I doubt it...)

The 2 Heinkel pics look great. Lighting is first class and they really do look very close to photo quality. Flames seem to have been tweaked and improved - they look incredible in the first pic. Look forward to seeing it in motion.

[Auger73]

Hi Kingpinda. :) Yes the G940 is not 'last week' new, but its still new tech all the same. I still have my old MSFFB2. The problem is not the hardware, it is developer will to improve its implementation, the code for FFB is ancient and not very good in IL-2 IMO, understandable of course as it is very old now.

FFB will definitely be in Pinda, its just that we will be probably at least initially be stuck with what we have in IL-2 at the moment, which could be a lot better.

Yes I'd agree its all about 'feeling' the crate, particularly control surface resistance at higher airspeeds etc.....I'm with you on that. :)

So hopefully its ok. NOT

Cheers.

Using FFB in IL-2 with my G940 makes a big difference. The tactile feel of airspeed is a great benefit, and it helps me limit how much speed I will allow myself to bleed in a turn.

For a WWII flight sim, I would not want to be without FFB.

The old MS FFB support would not be bad, although I hope that SOW will utilize the G940 SDK from Logitech, not only to use the advanced FFB drivers, but also for the lights on the G940.

[major_setback]

Great update!

If the wings break off when I hit a tree, then it will be my prefered method of landing.
:-)

It's nice that they break into 2 pieces.

[sorak]

I've been looking at these updates for some time now and i really really can't wait untill this massive sim finally releases!!! But i will have to be patient. It looks stunning and brilliant and what not!! Good job!!

One thing though. I see a few messages about forcefeedback here and that it can't be realistic and its ok its not in final release and may be added and such.. I highly disagree!

In fact it will sadden me and I will be forced to postpone my purchase untill FF will be implemented.

The Logitech G940 is by no means "new" its a year old by now and FF equipment has been around for some time.

In my opinion Force Feedback is a lot more realistic in second worldwar crates than in modern aircraft. Modern aircraft handling are taken over by automated sytems and only require input.

I have only flew once now in a prop plane and you could definately feel the forces around you. The wind on the airelons etc. this type was flown by a yoke but the effects would seem similair. Alas i wasnt allowed to land or take off :p So i wouldnt know if the forces on the stick would be less on lower speeds etc but I imagine this to be true. But I will let the pro's decide on that. I don't need fancy effects but I would like to "Feel" the crate. Just like when I drive my car. Anyone who has rode on a highway with high cross windspeeds will have noticed that you need to put more counterpressure on the wheel.

We was saying we wanted IMPROVED FF effects.. The current IL2 allready has FF. We wanted SOW to have better FF not the same engine.

[Richie]

I love the grass

[Screamadelica]

:grin:smoke the grass and it won't be scary anymore....

and I agree - the environments and atmospherics being illustrated are most impressive...proper lighting is critical and so far SOW looks to be well lit

Totally agree. The lighting and atmospherics are superb. Nothing to fear. Higher than the sun.:grin:

[Sasha]

This is my first post, so correct me if I'm wrong:

I have a feeling that clouds diversity has not been improved much from original Il-2 Sturmovik... or at least - it has not been displayed on WIP screens.

Diversity of clouds shapes is extreamly important for a modern flight sim... as much as dynamic lightning (that is well visible ;))

If there is improvement on clouds diversity - what is the reason for not displaying it... so far ?

( It is better to see once - than to hear 100 times... )

Just a "constructive question"... nothing more, nothing less.

[AKA_Tenn]

This is my first post, so correct me if I'm wrong:

I have a feeling that clouds diversity has not been improved much from original Il-2 Sturmovik... or at least - it has not been displayed on WIP screens.

Diversity of clouds shapes is extreamly important for a modern flight sim... as much as dynamic lightning (that is well visible ;))

If there is improvement on clouds diversity - what is the reason for not displaying it... so far ?

( It is better to see once - than to hear 100 times... )

Just a "constructive question"... nothing more, nothing less.

yea it seems everyone is a bit confused on that part, nobody is sure weather the clouds oleg is showing us now are the clouds we're gonna see when the game is done, or just put there temporary while the real clouds get finished.

either way, i'll bet clouds are super hard to make look good, and even il2's clouds can be made to look fairly nice too.

[Macwan]

Hi all,

Today is a hard day... I'm too tired, computer doesn't run well, wheather is bad, etc...
So today is a tiny update. Next probably will be much better. And I know about the bug that is visible on the shot with Hurricane :)
:)
Couple of backgrounds from the game menus and 3 shots:


Very nice shots ! -as usual !

A question to the dev modellers : I have the feeling that the colours of the Huricane are a bit (too ?) light, especially the dark green.
Or maybe it does come from the sun light, I don't know...

Thx for the update Oleg,

[HFC_Dolphin]

Hello Oleg,

Nice update, as usual.

One question: it seems to me that engine fire is far better than in previous shots, so, am I right? Have you worked this last period on engine fire?

Thanks,

[BigPickle]

Wonderful Update Oleg, Thank you. Tomorrow is a new day, I'm sure it will be better.

[Meusli]

This is my first post, so correct me if I'm wrong:

I have a feeling that clouds diversity has not been improved much from original Il-2 Sturmovik... or at least - it has not been displayed on WIP screens.

Diversity of clouds shapes is extreamly important for a modern flight sim... as much as dynamic lightning (that is well visible ;))

If there is improvement on clouds diversity - what is the reason for not displaying it... so far ?

( It is better to see once - than to hear 100 times... )

Just a "constructive question"... nothing more, nothing less.

The answer to your question is actually in this thread. Oleg has stated before that he has one man working on the clouds and weather system but he has yet to implement the full weather/clouds into his game to date. Keep a look out because any time soon we are going to get a full weather update!

[Insuber]

Nice pics Oleg. It's a detail maybe, but the callsign of He-111 in the 3rd pic looks wrong in size and position. Too big, too backwards and too low:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-317-0002-24%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_111.jpg

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=4005&d=1290771559

[Redwan]

Even clouds in IL2’s modded versions look better than the place holders we have seen until now in BoB’s screens and I’m sure that it will be improved in the release version but let’s see what ‘modern sim’s’ can propose:

Some examples from ROF:

Total Overcast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSkQqWrQYII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fIpziz98ws


Clouds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BsGMxdFDAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlPcZcBcYGI

Rain effect on glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIVnHeCAWuU

All these dont look bad and let’s bet that in BoB it will look even better.

[kingpinda]

We was saying we wanted IMPROVED FF effects.. The current IL2 allready has FF. We wanted SOW to have better FF not the same engine.

My apologies. I misread. Then I'm with you guys :) Although yeah.. I hope i don't come across to arrogant but in this day and age I would not even halve but fully expect this to be implemented to start with. I hope I don't brush the developers the wrong way with this because I respect your work and can't wait but if you plan to deliver a realistic sim then imo FFB will add alot to it. Simply because of the fact that WWII crates' handling has alot to do with the feedback the pilot receives from the plane during a number of conditions. Be it weather, damage, speed etc. I have this nice mental picture of Leonardo di capri in the movie the aviator. Where he flies this experimental 2 prop plane and his starboard engine gives out. Near crash you see him clutching the yoke to one side with all his might and full rudder and his other foot on the dashboard to keep the plane level. Now when the day comes that affordable FFB rudders are available and offcourse implemented in a sim.. Man I think i wouldn't leave my house for anyone or anything :p

[JAMF]

I'm curious how the Hurricane came to that position and received no damage from the tree?

[Ploughman]

That pranged Hurricane in the wheat field looks good. Thanks again. Look forward to seeing the meat and two veg of the sim as you refine it.

[The Kraken]

I'm curious how the Hurricane came to that position and received no damage from the tree?

I assume it has to be one of the following:

- heavy crosswinds
- it's the rubber tree from Monkey Island
- the damage model isn't that sophisticated yet (work in progress etc.)

[kalimba]

Looks to me like the background in that pic (ie the clouds) is a photograph that has been photoshopped in. All the rest of the elements (buildings, aircraft, balloons, flak) are from the game. (I'd be delighted to be proved wrong about the clouds though, but I doubt it...)

It seems that some of us agree on the fact that the backgrounds are from the in game engine...And taking in consideration what Oleg said a few weeks ago about the new clouds (WIP) not yet implemented in SOW's engine, I freely ;) extrapolated on the possibility that even the clouds we see in the shot #2 could be from in game too...That's all...A wishfull thinking !:rolleyes:

Salute !

[RomBinDaHouse]

Why the tree didn't cut off the right wing of Hurricane on fifth shot?

[JG52Krupi]

How do you know it slid in from that angle, it could have slid in and ended up on its side...

If there were tracks we could tell :P

[kendo65]

It seems that some of us agree on the fact that the backgrounds are from the in game engine...And taking in consideration what Oleg said a few weeks ago about the new clouds (WIP) not yet implemented in SOW's engine, I freely ;) extrapolated on the possibility that even the clouds we see in the shot #2 could be from in game too...That's all...A wishfull thinking !:rolleyes:

Salute !

I'd love you to be right :) If the background is from in-game then things have really moved on. It just looks TOO good, but like I say I would like to be wrong on this.


How do you know it slid in from that angle, it could have slid in and ended up on its side...

If there were tracks we could tell

Why the tree didn't cut off the right wing of Hurricane on fifth shot?

I assumed that was the bug that Oleg referred to - one wing gets clobbered by a tree, but the other one falls off!

[Hecke]

Wasn't it SaQSoN saying there won't be damage trails on the ground?

[Dano]

The bug is quite obviously the landing light reflecting as if there is no grass in front of it.

[Igo kyu]

I turn the clouds off in IL*2 because the AI shoot me through them. If the AI can't see me through the clouds in SoW, I will be able to turn the clouds on, which means they will be 100% better than the clouds in IL*2, no matter what they look like.

[Sven]

I'm curious how the Hurricane came to that position and received no damage from the tree?

could have been lots of ways, plane was coming from left corner and tried to avoid hitting the trees , applying to much rudder and accidental to much aileron which made the wing tip hit the ground and break off and the hurricane came spinning to a halt, just a scenario, cant tell from the picture so I guess it's useless to keep speculating, however it is quite fun:)

[JG52Krupi]

The bug is quite obviously the landing light reflecting as if there is no grass in front of it.

yes that the first thing i thought as well...

[philip.ed]

Just to add, the bug-pure and simply-appears to be grass completely oblivious (in theory) to light and reflections, and also to objects (as it surfaces through the Hurricane). ;)

Excellent update, the game looks drop-dead gorgeous.

[JG52Krupi]

Just to add, the bug-pure and simply-appears to be grass completely oblivious (in theory) to light and reflections, and also to objects (as it surfaces through the Hurricane). ;)

Excellent update, the game looks drop-dead gorgeous.

If someone says that wings of prey looks better I will make sure that they require plastic surgery when ive finished with them :rolleyes:

[IceFire]

I turn the clouds off in IL*2 because the AI shoot me through them. If the AI can't see me through the clouds in SoW, I will be able to turn the clouds on, which means they will be 100% better than the clouds in IL*2, no matter what they look like.

Fixed for 4.10 according to some older updates from Team Daidalos.

[Freycinet]

This is my first post, so correct me if I'm wrong:

I have a feeling that clouds diversity has not been improved much from original Il-2 Sturmovik... or at least - it has not been displayed on WIP screens.

Diversity of clouds shapes is extreamly important for a modern flight sim... as much as dynamic lightning (that is well visible ;))

If there is improvement on clouds diversity - what is the reason for not displaying it... so far ?

( It is better to see once - than to hear 100 times... )

Just a "constructive question"... nothing more, nothing less.

Hello "new" member. Good to see you have been following the obsessions of a few "old" members so closely.

[Old_Canuck]

Hello "new" member. Good to see you have been following the obsessions of a few "old" members so closely.

Oleg informed us long ago that weather dynamics would not be revealed until closer to release. With that in mind, we haven't yet seen all that SoW has to offer in regards to clouds and weather.

[SlipBall]

Oleg informed us long ago that weather dynamics would not be revealed until closer to release. With that in mind, we haven't yet seen all that SoW has to offer in regards to clouds and weather.


Rain puddles on the runway, snow drifts at the hanger door...we shall see:grin:

[KnightFandragon]

The Hurricane in that first pic is sweet...it looks like its black an red to me, awesome paintjob haha

[IFnXI]

if you can understand the Russian language, you might be interested:


Oleg Maddox interview

http://gameguru.ru/articles/961/view.html

[kalimba]

if you can understand the Russian language, you might be interested:


Oleg Maddox interview

http://gameguru.ru/articles/961/view.html

Are all the in game movies shown in this interview really from SOW ? :confused:
Just wondering...:rolleyes:

Salute !

[kedrednael]

Are all the in game movies shown in this interview really from SOW ? :confused:
Just wondering...:rolleyes:

Salute !

No, they also put some wings of prey footage in there :confused:
And some of the footage is from a verry old version of SOW.

[IFnXI]

short abstracts:

1:58 - there will be approximately 30 planes

2:06 - controllable by player more then 10

2:39 - map size: 300x400 kilometers


3:45 - campaign and its story is based on some book. Unfortunately, Oleg didn`t say the name of the book

[Tbag]

Thanks IFnXI! Feel free to translate more :)

[IFnXI]

Are all the in game movies shown in this interview really from SOW ? :confused:
Just wondering...:rolleyes:

Salute !

no, its not :) some from Birds of pray, some from 3D render, some from Il-2: Battle of Britain :)

[Oleg Maddox]

no, its not :) some from Birds of pray, some from 3D render, some from Il-2: Battle of Britain :)

There is no one from actual Igromir version build. The took different materiasl from different time and different games.

[Oleg Maddox]

I'm curious how the Hurricane came to that position and received no damage from the tree?

It was innacurate taxing with the turn left, not the landing.

[SlipBall]

Oleg you are very rested now, come hang out for a couple of hours:grin:
I like very much the jagged torn fabric metal in that shot.

[Sutts]

I love the new fire effects Oleg, great work.:grin:

[JAMF]

It was innacurate taxing with the turn left, not the landing.

Nice! So the left landing gear collapsed first and the left wing separated as the weight of the plane landed on it?

[Sasha]

Hello "new" member. Good to see you have been following the obsessions of a few "old" members so closely.

Didn't get your point... The only thing I am "following closely" is WIP presentation here and on youtube.

Anyway, many thanks to people who explained... should be - the last minute interpolation of "meteorology".

[Necrobaron]

3:45 - campaign and its story is based on some book. Unfortunately, Oleg didn`t say the name of the book

Interesting. So would that mean we shouldn't expect a dynamic campaign but instead scripted missions based on this book?


Great update as usual. As others have said, the Hurricane in the grass shot looks great!
________
VAPORIZERS INFO (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[IFnXI]

Interesting. So would that mean we shouldn't expect a dynamic campaign but instead scripted missions based on this book?


correct. 4:13.

P.S.In my opinion dynamic campaigns much more boring than static campaigns. If it made talented in static campaigns you can read stoty, and at same time learn history, as opposed to dynamic campaigns, generated by computer.

[major_setback]

correct

Last time I asked Oleg he said there would not be a 'scripted' campaign (following day-by-day historic events), just a dynamic one.

[IFnXI]

What is your source (who told you this)?

http://gameguru.ru/articles/961/view.html

4:13

[major_setback]

no, its not :) some from Birds of pray, some from 3D render, some from Il-2: Battle of Britain :)

Even so, the clouds are the best we have seen yet (in the footage that look like it is from SoW).

[Blakduk]

In the interests of accuracy, shouldn't the crashed Hurricane pilot be slapping his forehead with a speech bubble saying 'DOH!' ?

Just a quick question- that grass is very long, and in a earlier shot i saw a hurricane wrecked in a corn field. Is the grass treated as an object or merely an aesthetic element?
For example, landing or taxiing into grass increases the chances of tipping over?

[major_setback]

Even so, the clouds are the best we have seen yet (in the footage that look like it is from SoW).

If these are from SoW, then niiice!!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/sc01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/sc02.jpg

[The Kraken]

If these are from SoW, then niiice!!

They aren't; it's a CGI movie which for whatever reason is labelled "Storm of War beta" in youtube, but has nothing to do with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmlk99ENutw

[Foo'bar]

They aren't; it's a CGI movie which for whatever reason is labelled "Storm of War beta" in youtube, but has nothing to do with it

I thought that everybody should know about this meanwhile...

[T}{OR]

correct. 4:13.

P.S.In my opinion dynamic campaigns much more boring than static campaigns. If it made talented in static campaigns you can read stoty, and at same time learn history, as opposed to dynamic campaigns, generated by computer.

I seriously doubt that.


Last time I asked Oleg he said there would not be a 'scripted' campaign (following day-by-day historic events), just a dynamic one.

Exactly what I remember him saying too. So if it turns out to be based after a book, I believe it will have some static elements - but won't be static at all.


As for the update - I love the first two (Photoshoped probably) images. :cool:

[Flanker35M]

S!

Can not be fully dynamic if you can not win BoB as Luftwaffe. And I recall Oleg saying LW can not win BoB in SoW..so static, semi-static or what?

[csThor]

How about "dynamic where it counts, historical where it needs to be"? ;)

Seriously, you - as a pilot, even if you're commanding a Geschwader - do not have the means to influence the conduct of operations in such a way that Germany would have a (slim theoretical) chance to win. To do that you'd need to be at least Kesselring or Sperrle, both of which are Field Marshals and aren't flying. So what's it going to be: A strategy campaign for a strategy game or a flight sim campaign for a flight simulation?

[The Sheepherder]

Great shot of the Hurri, Oleg! Compliments to the dev team!

[Foo'bar]

@csThor: well said.

[Richie]

S!

Can not be fully dynamic if you can not win BoB as Luftwaffe. And I recall Oleg saying LW can not win BoB in SoW..so static, semi-static or what?

Keep going after the airfields and ignore London. Keep to the original plan and it will work!

[IFnXI]

S!

Can not be fully dynamic if you can not win BoB as Luftwaffe. And I recall Oleg saying LW can not win BoB in SoW..so static, semi-static or what?

I`ll try to translate word by word this sentence about dynamic campaign:

"...Нету динамической кампании, как таковой, которую любят аркадные игроки очень, хотя в последних аркадах я их вообще не вижу, там просто маленький набор миссий и все."

"...we don`t have dynamic campaign, as such, wich arcade players likes very much, although in recent arcades I don`t see one in general, there is just small set of missions and that's all"

May be I missed something in context, but as I understand there is fully static campaign. About dynamic campain - only that words wich I translated.

P.S. I guess, it could be better, if Oleg clarify a question with one's own hand.

[T}{OR]

I`ll try to translate word by word this sentence about dynamic campaign:

"...Нету динамической кампании, как таковой, которую любят аркадные игроки очень, хотя в последних аркадах я их вообще не вижу, там просто маленький набор миссий и все."

"...There is no dynamic campaign, as such, wich arcade players likes very much, although in recent arcades I don`t see one in general, there is just small set of missions and that's all"

May be I missed something in context, but as I understand there is fully static campaign. About dynamic campain - only that words wich I translated.

P.S. I guess, it could be better, if Oleg clarify a question with one's own hand.

You're right, this sounds like it was pulled out of the context. If it turns out to be true, which again I somehow doubt, it would go against everything Oleg has said so far.

As others have said - Oleg already stated on more than one occasion that you won't be able to win as LW. Based on your latest input - the only logical conclusion I can make is that we might get somewhat "scripted" campaign (based on that book) with dynamic missions. Based on that book.

Can you translate more of the interview for us please?

After some more thought - has Oleg ever confirmed (talked about) the dynamical campaign in the BoB??

[IFnXI]

Can you translate more of the interview for us please?



Unfortunately, full translation takes to much time. So I can translate only short abstracts of interview.

[Flanker35M]

S!

csThor..I know what you mean. But we know a LOT more than Lufties or Raffites at the time. And BoB started strategically earlier, in France already. I am sure everyone has read their history ;)

Say a player is Geschwader Kommodore of SKG210 and destroys the Home Chain and/or other radar towers succesfully, opening a path for the bombers. How can RAF then direct full force on attacking bombers? And if all the frontline fields are bombed useless LW would have air superiority over southern England etc. Of course a VERY simplified example, but you get the pic ;)

Falcon 4.0 and Falcon 4.0:Allied Force has the dynamic campaign that has not been surpassed by any sim yet. Rowan's BoB II has one too yet it has limitations on LW side as it was primarily aimed to be RAF side. Nevertheless dynamic. What SoW will have is to be seen, but high hopes that not a series of canned missions where previous outcome has no effect on next etc. Would be dull if you bombed a Sector comm center hampering Sector Command operations and in next mission all is good again..

SoW delivers a totally new experience after IL-2 in many areas, as seen on updates. Let's hope other areas are up to it as well. Content is a big part of ANY game. So fingers crossed and thumbs up SoW will become THE bench for the next decade and beyond.

[SlipBall]

I remember what turned out to be a very active debate in a poll over at the zoo. Oleg had asked Faustnik to do the poll, to find out what would be perfered dynamic campaign or etc.:grin:

[csThor]

csThor..I know what you mean. But we know a LOT more than Lufties or Raffites at the time. And BoB started strategically earlier, in France already. I am sure everyone has read their history ;)

So? Numerical superiority alone is not a guarantee to win a battle. Ask Dareios III at Gaugamela, ask Lucius Aemilius Paullus and Gaius Terentius Varro at Cannae, ask Marshal Bazaine at Mars-la-Tour. All of these enjoyed a convincing numerical superiority before the battle ... and still suffered a crushing defeat. Numerical superiority gives one side merely more options but they still have to employ them in a meaningful way.

Say a player is Geschwader Kommodore of SKG210 and destroys the Home Chain and/or other radar towers succesfully, opening a path for the bombers. How can RAF then direct full force on attacking bombers? And if all the frontline fields are bombed useless LW would have air superiority over southern England etc. Of course a VERY simplified example, but you get the pic ;)

First its Erprobungsgruppe 210 (http://foorum.mexxoft.com/images/smilies/verruekte_008.gif) and my response would be "So?". You're still a subordinate to Luftflotte 2 and get your operation orders from there. So you don't have a say in what's your target and all you can do is fulfill the order as good as you can while keeping your men alive.

So we're back at the strategic decisions which are being made by people who aren't flying combat missions anymore. Besides the Luftwaffe did not have the insights we have today, the significance of the Radar stations was not understood and they were difficult to hit so after a while it seemed wasted effort to go after them. But again ... this is not on the layer a flight sim can and should depict, this is strategy.

Falcon 4.0 and Falcon 4.0:Allied Force has the dynamic campaign that has not been surpassed by any sim yet. Rowan's BoB II has one too yet it has limitations on LW side as it was primarily aimed to be RAF side. Nevertheless dynamic. What SoW will have is to be seen, but high hopes that not a series of canned missions where previous outcome has no effect on next etc. Would be dull if you bombed a Sector comm center hampering Sector Command operations and in next mission all is good again..

I don't understand why people bring up Falcon 4 for a good campaign. Yes, it had a brilliant engine with a lot of dynamics but it utterly failed to create immersion for me. Maybe I'm too old-school but I happen to severely dislike switching units and flights, free choosing of missions, entering cockpits while already airborne and a general lack of anything that makes me believe I am a small pilot in a great conflict. In that respect, meaning making me believe I am part of a living and breathing world, I still rate Red Baron II as the very best campaign I ever played.

[Flanker35M]

S!

SoW will be at level of a squadron then, understandable. In Rowan's game you can play as a strategic game too, thus change outcome of the BoB. Even in SWOTL you could ;)

I merely gave a simplified example that IF the 210, for example, had been successfull then the bombers would have a bit more time before being intercepted. That is a lot in terms of warfare. Damage is done already if the attacking force is egressing.

Why Falcon 4.0? Because it has a dynamic campaign, plain and simple. Everything around you went on even you would just sit and watch the map. You were a mere asset in the war. That is what still makes F 4.0 great.

What would be a let down in SoW is that it would be a scripted series of missions with an outcome written in stone regardless your actions. Just let the plane Autopilot all missions, what's the difference? Just a game with exceptional graphics but that's it. We've seen BoB before and would SoW be any different in that string? Been there, done that.

With extreme sarcasm..Was the wait of 6 years worth at all when all we get is fancy graphics and a set of features, but with no real content? Why fly for Luftwaffe at all when the only challenge would be not to die in the string of canned missions? That would offer zero replay value as the outcome is already known.

Above statement aside I believe SoW will offer a lot more and be the next sim to fly for years to come. Oleg and his team pulled this off with IL-2 so SoW will be no exception.

[BadAim]

All of this is just too speculative. When Oleg is ready he tell tell us. Whatever the fact, we'll have the other 1n short order anyway. There will be mission builders building missions, and I won't be surprised to see a version of DCG for SOW eventually. We'll soon be inundated with every possible outcome of the battle........

[csThor]

Why Falcon 4.0? Because it has a dynamic campaign, plain and simple. Everything around you went on even you would just sit and watch the map. You were a mere asset in the war. That is what still makes F 4.0 great.

That, in itself, is not a virtue but a part of it. Quite frankly if the devs fail to transport that stuff (= what we call immersion) then the effort, while laudable, is a failed effort. And Falcon 4 was a failed effort in my opinion as it was as interesting as watching paint dry.

With extreme sarcasm..Was the wait of 6 years worth at all when all we get is fancy graphics and a set of features, but with no real content? Why fly for Luftwaffe at all when the only challenge would be not to die in the string of canned missions? That would offer zero replay value as the outcome is already known.

Here we disagree. I very much consider the idea that flying alone (and the performance of a single pilot to boot) could influence a confrontation such as the BoB is ludicrous to the umpteenth degree.
What I want for the campaign is accuracy in the details ... meaning for example that an Oberstleutnant (such as "Vati" Mölders) had authority over his Geschwader but he had no say in the general conduct of the battle. Various ranks have various layers of responsibility (my phrase) and I'd like to see that represented ... I want, to make a long story short, a good representation of what the everyday life of a pilot was like back then ... and not some gamey "let's ignore that Göring and Hitler are idiots and win the BoB with our knowledge and hindsight". :roll:

[T}{OR]

Here we disagree. I very much consider the idea that flying alone (and the performance of a single pilot to boot) could influence a confrontation such as the BoB is ludicrous to the umpteenth degree.
What I want for the campaign is accuracy in the details ... meaning for example that an Oberstleutnant (such as "Vati" Mölders) had authority over his Geschwader but he had no say in the general conduct of the battle. Various ranks have various layers of responsibility (my phrase) and I'd like to see that represented ... I want, to make a long story short, a good representation of what the everyday life of a pilot was like back then ... and not some gamey "let's ignore that Göring and Hitler are idiots and win the BoB with our knowledge and hindsight". :roll:

^^
This,

pretty much sums up my way of thinking as well. I do hope all you said here makes it into SoW. Having control of your own squadron and not taking part in overall war changing decisions sound just right to me if BoB is to be focused on historical accuracy.

Also, last time I heard this is a plane simulator and not a strategic game. ;)

[kalimba]

I thought that everybody should know about this meanwhile...

With all due respect, Foo'bar, it is not that obvious since we all know that Oleg still have plenty of features that we have'nt seen yet...And when you watch an official interview with Oleg, we assume ( :rolleyes: ) that what is shown is from SOW. Someone unfamilliar with SOW's development could have been mislead....

And let me take this occasion to congratulate you personnally for your impressive contribution to SOW ! :grin:

Salute !

[Flanker35M]

S!

Maybe Falcon 4.0 soon turns real, seems the northern guys are bullying around. We flew Falcon 4.0 online as co-op, started from the cockpit with pre-flights and all. That added a LOT to the immersion. Falcon still has stood the test of time, not even the DCS series have gotten even close to it as they lack the dynamic campaign. But sure do have the fidelity in systems etc. now, especially with A10C coming.

As said, we do not know what SoW will be except you can not win as Luftwaffe pilot. Fair enough IF everything else is done exceptionally well. Fancy graphics and fidelity do not mean a squat to me if the rest is poop or done halfarsed. But this is not the case with Oleg I think ;) He has put a lot of time to this and I am eagerly waiting for SoW, even some of my writings might be cynical or sarcastic.

[Chivas]

Could this campaign engine be built with a multi-cpu desktop computer.

Say using months July, August, and September.

Input known time, day, altitude, target, for each mission for both sides.

Let the AI play out the battle with the limited input of the player or players.

A damage model that stays damaged for the approximate time of repair.

If some parts of the chain home command were damaged then some flights would not be vectored to the right location making interception a matter of guess and luck.

Some flights would not take off due to damaged airfields, although the large open fields used by the RAF would be almost impossible to completely disable for any period of time.

Off-line the player would be able to stop, fast forward, etc the campaign.

The addition of military ground transport, train routes, etc would add alot of burden, but in this day of multiple CPUs it may be possible.

It should be possible for a mulitcpu computer to just keep track of the grid locations of moving aircraft and vehicles that are not in visual contact with the player.


I suppose keeping track of AI battles going on over different areas of a large map would be a nightmare of data, unless some formula was used for the outcome of air battles with no player involvement in the area.


I know this is awfully simplified, and when you get into the details it probably isn't possible at this time.

Edit.

While the campaign is going on around you, the option to select an airfield, number of aircraft in your flight, loadout, especially if you want to take a flight over the channel to France to look for targets of opportunity. Where there are triggers to launch interceptors if your spotted. The options could be almost limitless. Or missions like a lone Ju88, going deep into England, to attack a Damn site. Doing these missions with the knowledge that there is a full on war going on around you can be very immersive, not knowing what you will encounter.

[SlipBall]

Chivas..That sounds cool...I wish one of the up-dates would go into detail about the heart and soul of the game. It would be a nice break from the weekly screen shots.:grin:

[Dietger]

Greetings.

Well I see it more like Flanker35M here.
Falcon4 was a total dynamic strategy game with 3D build on top of it.
That was very impressiv! You just have to like US jets though :)
I loved it.

As for BoB.
I strongly hope to see more then just srcripted events that I have to play with!
Sperrle, Mölders or Pohl doesent matter :confused: The combination of a complex strategic, dynamic developement (in real time, as it was in F4) based on user input (your missions flow by yourself) is the kick.

Atleast, I'd like the idea to be able to chose my targets, like Flanker35M pointed out. It would be easy to get the home chain at the canal with stukas/JU88 at night and so on.....

So, to make it worth the effort, what you do HAS TO MAKE AN IMPACT.

Or why else putting in any effort?

A scripted campaign based on historical missions was already in orginal IL2.
But as I see it, it wasnt one of its strong points.
Hopes are high to see something more convincing in Olegs Battle of Britain.


Cheers Dietger

[Foo'bar]

And when you watch an official interview with Oleg, we assume ( :rolleyes: ) that what is shown is from SOW. Someone unfamilliar with SOW's development could have been mislead

Okay, your piont :) as someone who spends every day quite some time here in forum I can't believe that others don't do the same ;)

Thank you!

[SlipBall]

Greetings.

Well I see it more like Flanker35M here.
Falcon4 was a total dynamic strategy game with 3D build on top of it.
That was very impressiv! You just have to like US jets though :)
I loved it.

As for BoB.
I strongly hope to see more then just srcripted events that I have to play with!
Sperrle, Mölders or Pohl doesent matter :confused: The combination of a complex strategic, dynamic developement (in real time, as it was in F4) based on user input (your missions flow by yourself) is the kick.

Atleast, I'd like the idea to be able to chose my targets, like Flanker35M pointed out. It would be easy to get the home chain at the canal with stukas/JU88 at night and so on.....

So, to make it worth the effort, what you do HAS TO MAKE AN IMPACT.

Or why else putting in any effort?

A scripted campaign based on historical missions was already in orginal IL2.
But as I see it, it wasnt one of its strong points.
Hopes are high to see something more convincing in Olegs Battle of Britain.


Cheers Dietger


Keep in mind that all is connected...so whether you take out a spot light, radar, or command you will have an effect...at least, this is my understanding.:grin:

[Stiboo]

Oleg has said that the FMB design will be very similar to IL2, but with a few more toys to play with, I think the SoW campaign will be very similar to IL2's DCG.

But with the Battle Of Britain only lasting a few months the missions could be much more detailed.

One other thing, I was looking at a screen shot of the Beaufighter the other day and I don't think the first RAF squadron went operational with it until late 1940, and were not up to speed until Jan 1941....so prehaps Oleg is also covering the night air war into 1941 as well ?

( think there was a screen shot of He111 in night scheme? )


Does anyone remember any comments on night combat?

[The Kraken]

Greetings.

Well I see it more like Flanker35M here.
Falcon4 was a total dynamic strategy game with 3D build on top of it.
That was very impressiv! You just have to like US jets though :)
I loved it.


I didn't. Ok mostly because it was buggy as hell and only years of community work and a second commercial release finally managed to fix it (coincidentally, the same is true for Rowan's BoB ;)). But what people usually don't see (mainly because it sure gives a great and immersive environment to play around in) is that it's not very realistic. Still works ok for a ficitional setting, but creating such a system within the historical constraints of WW2 would be a nightmare. Just check how great this worked out for CFS3, where Germany and the UK would invade each other every few months...

Also consider that whatever campaign system SoW will come up with has to work with other theatres as well - the Battle of Britain is rather simple here because it lacks a ground war, front lines and tactical ground attack missions.

Sperrle, Mölders or Pohl doesent matter :confused: The combination of a complex strategic, dynamic developement (in real time, as it was in F4) based on user input (your missions flow by yourself) is the kick.

Again, for a flight sim the strategic level of Falcon4 is quite nice, but as a strategy game it's rather weak, and I personally don't want to be forced to play a not-so-great strategy game so I can play the flight sim beneath it.

So, to make it worth the effort, what you do HAS TO MAKE AN IMPACT.

Or why else putting in any effort?

Work on your kills score, help keep your squadron alive, or simply try to survive. Plenty of incentives without changing history :)

A scripted campaign based on historical missions was already in orginal IL2.
But as I see it, it wasnt one of its strong points.
Hopes are high to see something more convincing in Olegs Battle of Britain.

On the other hand it didn't keep it from being successful. While those other flight sim companies with dynamic campaign systems have all gone out of business...


Anyway, what Oleg has hinted at is a very open mission system that will hopefully provide options for 3rd party campaign systems. There were also hints for a customizable interface (I think HTML was mentioned in that context but it's been a while) so such campaigns could be integrated in a much better way than with Il2. And the missions themselves should be much more interesting with more trigger and scripting options. Although much of this is still rumours I have no doubt that we'll see some very complex (and dynamic) campaigns after release.

[Necrobaron]

I guess this is dangerously close to going off-topic (if it isn't already) but while I agree that a single pilot almost certainly could not change the course of events to earn a German victory, in a truly dynamic campaign, who is to say that other ahistorical, though plausible, events don't transpire on a larger scale to change the outcome?

For the Luftwaffe, what if there's a greater occurence of missions to destroy the radar sites or an even greater emphasis on airfield attacks? I'm no BoB historian but my understanding is that at one point the RAF was hanging by a thread and it doesn't seem that implausible to me that it could be possible for someone to get a German victory, however unlikely, if the right missions are generated.

For the RAF, what if there are more wasteful missions generated that needlessly puts their air assets at risk and in turn aids the Germans in further diminishing their ranks? On the other hand, what if RAF air crews, by luck or other means, inflict much heavier losses on the Luftwaffe and the BoB is effectively over sooner than it was in reality?

The very nature of a purely dynamic campaign means that no one's experience is exactly the same. To me, a good compromise would be to have a series of scripted, purely historical single missions for each side and also offer a dynamic campaign where anything could theoretically happen. The only constant would be that both sides start with whatever airpower they had in the Summer of 1940. What happens after that is up to the campaign generator, pilot performance (AI and human), and luck.
________
Uggs (http://uggstoreshop.com/)

[T}{OR]

I guess this is dangerously close to going off-topic (if it isn't already) ...

I am wondering that myself - is this too much OT? Please delete my post if so.


Work on your kills score, help keep your squadron alive, or simply try to survive. Plenty of incentives without changing history :)

Exactly. When I play SoW I which to be a part of history, not change it to what might have happened. There are other games that do that. :)

I am all in for destroyed objects being destroyed in the next mission, plus some deviations of what happened (like prolonged attacks on airfields), but for a change in how the Battle ended - not my cup of tea.


As far as IL2's single player goes - I have never really been able to get into the mood there. Not even remotely like what for example EAW offered. It all felt too "synthetic". If I haven't discovered how good online game play was I would probably never given this game so much attention. Then again, I didn't try much of the custom built campaigns.

In any case, I do hope SoW will stand out here.

[nynek]

S!

SoW will be at level of a squadron then, understandable. In Rowan's game you can play as a strategic game too, thus change outcome of the BoB. Even in SWOTL you could ;)

I merely gave a simplified example that IF the 210, for example, had been successfull then the bombers would have a bit more time before being intercepted. That is a lot in terms of warfare. Damage is done already if the attacking force is egressing.

Why Falcon 4.0? Because it has a dynamic campaign, plain and simple. Everything around you went on even you would just sit and watch the map. You were a mere asset in the war. That is what still makes F 4.0 great.

What would be a let down in SoW is that it would be a scripted series of missions with an outcome written in stone regardless your actions. Just let the plane Autopilot all missions, what's the difference? Just a game with exceptional graphics but that's it. We've seen BoB before and would SoW be any different in that string? Been there, done that.

With extreme sarcasm..Was the wait of 6 years worth at all when all we get is fancy graphics and a set of features, but with no real content? Why fly for Luftwaffe at all when the only challenge would be not to die in the string of canned missions? That would offer zero replay value as the outcome is already known.

Above statement aside I believe SoW will offer a lot more and be the next sim to fly for years to come. Oleg and his team pulled this off with IL-2 so SoW will be no exception.
---
With all due respect to You Flanker but I think You made cardinal mistake comparing real history events SOW with totally fictional time frame Falcon game. In the past, dynamic campaign was all over my lips. I wanted to be in charge and see effects of my shooting. Thing is after a while I found Mission4today site and I started dwld some of Their stuff. One day I found myself in Hurri plus 3 against 20+ Heinkels with 12 Bf as a bodyguards. And You know what, I didn't have time ponder about what'll be tomorrow because I was hard at thinking (about 5 second) how to stop those bombers and SURVIVE. Flanker I'm sure You witnessed some forum wars about FM, lack of ashtray in Galland Bf and so on and on. We strive for realism in performances, looks, ballistics so why not in HISTORY. Our holly grail in this game should be to finish a game alive and if it is too easy for You turn off or on those buttons in realism and try to fly campaign from the day You bought the SOW.
That's my personal view on those things what You thinking ?

nynek

[JG52Krupi]

Has Oleg mentioned damage from debris, i was just playing ROF and a tail plane surface broke off and hit my engine destroying my prop :D .

Also will the shadow of the aircraft be real time i.e. if my aircraft has the tip of the wing or a aileron blown off will the shadow show the damage.

[Dietger]

Kraken, F4 was a nightmare of bugs!
Still, it felt great to see all those things happen around you - air or ground!

>>>Work on your kills score, help keep your squadron alive, or simply try to survive. Plenty of incentives without changing history <<<

How can a mere flightsim player alter the course of history? ;)
No one will change history nor wants to do so.
Lets dont get overbord with this. The island will be sound and save ;)


A good researched historical campaign is a must , It will be a blast to "recreate" what once was. And "feel" after the events as they unfolded in our history.

No, winning or loosing isnt the point, at least not for me.
Its about user input - interaction with your playground.

For exaple, if you take out the radars, RAF shouldnt be able to direct the fighters for the interception , easy to understand and logic.
If you manage to destroy the German offensive capabilities - no bombing of, lets say, London! Thats the ways I want it to be "responsive-dynamic".
If, at the end of it, the screen tells you: Battle o. Britain over: RAF won. I have no objection with it.

I see it as a playground and I like it to be as interactive as possible, whats wrong with that?
Sure! you wont code this in a week or two. But its been a while now since developement started. And No, I dont like a dynamic but buggy campaign. I want one that works. Since the the battle was a mere air battle, relative simple (thats easy said I know) user input can be restricted to a relative smal number of things to play around/alter with. For the German side its mostly offensive decisions, the "user" can make or change. That means your targets! A very limited choise if you ask me nothing to complex.

That beeing said, I dont want to speculate too much either about it, until I see it.

Regards Dietger


Sorry Lads for beeing OT!

[speculum jockey]

Greetings.
So, to make it worth the effort, what you do HAS TO MAKE AN IMPACT.

Cheers Dietger

If you're English, your fighter can't hold enough ammo to make a significant impact on the German offensive. We're talking about days where hundreds of planes are being shot down in the course of an afternoon.

If you're German/Italian your fighter as well, can't hold enough ammo to make a difference or your bomber can't hold enough bombs or make enough sorties a day to do the same.

Look at Erich Hartmann! The guy shot down 352 aircraft on the Russian front. The Germans has ton's of 100+ aces, and they still lost the war. For every plane you shoot down, there is a an ace on the other side to do just the same. That's why you'll never see a difference.

I could see something along the lines of you being singled out by the enemy once your kill count has reached ~20 or so.

(enemy radio chatter) "There's that devil that took out Fritz/James yesterday! He's the one that's been swatting all our comrades/blokes out of the sky. Registration number 123. . . Swarm him!"

That could be sort of cool! Not something like, "The Italians have pulled out of the conflict after you downed 35 of their pasta-planes into the drink. Good show!" Or something equally unrealistic like, "The Fuhrer has ordered operation Sea Lion to go ahead. Your efforts have single-handedly resulted in the RAF being crippled as a fighting force!"

[Flying Pencil]

Is this a photoshopped image of the SoW model??

I mean to make it look like a painting, not altering the model itself.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=4003&d=1290771550

[IceFire]

I'd say it's a painting or a heavily retouched version of the 3D model. The 3D models look incredible... but not THAT incredible.

[csThor]

How can a mere flightsim player alter the course of history? ;) No one will change history nor wants to do so. Lets dont get overbord with this. The island will be sound and save ;)
Ah, now you're talking. ;)

A good researched historical campaign is a must , It will be a blast to "recreate" what once was. And "feel" after the events as they unfolded in our history.
D'accord.

No, winning or loosing isnt the point, at least not for me. Its about user input - interaction with your playground.

For exaple, if you take out the radars, RAF shouldnt be able to direct the fighters for the interception , easy to understand and logic.
If you manage to destroy the German offensive capabilities - no bombing of, lets say, London! Thats the ways I want it to be "responsive-dynamic".
If, at the end of it, the screen tells you: Battle o. Britain over: RAF won. I have no objection with it.
In principle I agree, but I also must second what speculum jockey said ... your potential for impact will be limited. It has to be there (i.e. an ace downed, a bridge destroyed etc) but it's a difficult thing to model as it's too easy to go overboard.

[Flying_Nutcase]

When I play SoW I which to be a part of history, not change it to what might have happened. There are other games that do that. :)


The thing about strictly historical thinking is that the fact that the events that occurred were not what was 'meant to be'. They were not written in stone as what had to happen. The events that transpired and decisions that were made, big and small, could have been different.

A dynamic campaign that can offer variability based on a different set of events and decisions seems pretty reasonable, in addition of course to more strictly historical campaigns. These events and decisions would largely be completely independent of the player's actions, although the player's actions would be part of the input, like successfully destroying radar stations or whatever.

For those of you with a more strictly historical mindset, what do you think about that? I'm kind of curious.

[Dietger]

Speculum and csThor,

I think it was Rowans BoB? Which had both; a complete historical part and a part where the player could setup the overall strategies and targets of the side he played on.

I expect something a long that line.
I nice historical part, to resampling histo. events.
And, if we are lucky, a possibility to redirect and asign missions or targets for what ever flight 's about to take off: Bomber, recon , fighters whatsoever.
As Necrobaron speculated there is a lot room for possibilities.
There are enough opportunity for both sides to change directives.
Oleg early on said, it wont be possible to win the battle for axis side, so I think there are limitations in terms of user input?

Untill we actually see it - we patiently wait.

Dietger

[K_Freddie]

If SOW can be adapted later to allow for:-

In campaign mode, You can play multiple rolls, from Air marshall directing/managing the campaign, pushing flags with numbers here and there, then clicking on a flag, to either join a squadron in flight, or at take off.

Once your flight is finished or you've been 'zapped', you put on your marshall cap and are back at the map - join another flight, move supplies, new recruits... you know that type of strategy thing. Here you will see the effects of your decisions/actions on a greater scale.

Doing the Air Marshall thing can make a great online campaign in mutliplayer, where you can form a military structures through which you can advance.
Endless options => Title: Air Marshal-SOW ( Remember I mentioned the title first :) )

Maybe Oleg would like me to develop this... nudge nudge!! :)
:grin:

[csThor]

I think it was Rowans BoB? Which had both; a complete historical part and a part where the player could setup the overall strategies and targets of the side he played on.
This is exactly what I don't want. It is against my idea of what a flight simulation campaign must be like. Strategic decisions (which you have to take in BoB) are the prerogative of generals which - and yes, I know I am repeating myself - do not fly combat missions.

A flight sim cannot depict the layer above the regimental plane (= Geschwader or Wing). As such any flight sim campaign that tries to mingle these two very different things is a gamey crutch and I can't stand such things. There is a lot to be done when the layers of responsibility are accurately depicted (management of aircrew, tactical planning of how to fulfill the task/mission which one's assigned by the Fliegerkorps / Luftflotte / Group Command etc). What you propose is a strategy campaign that is about as immersive to me as a blank sheet of paper. :rolleyes:

So what I wish for? Let's take Flanker's example of Erprobungsgruppe 210 and assume the player chose the rank of Hauptmann/Major and is in command of said unit. The player receives a mission target (or a group of targets) such as a bunch of CH and CHL stations in the Dover area. He receives a timeframe during which the attack has to take place (which is interwoven with the other ops of Luftflotte 2 that day) and in this case he has to plan how to employ his three Staffeln to take out the target(s) without suffering too many losses. For the briefing I see something along these lines:

"Einsatzbefehl - 13 August 1940

To: Erprobungsgruppe 210
From: Stab Luftflotte 2

You are tasked to conduct a strike against the british radar stations at Dover and Rye (map with marked target locations). The attack has to be conducted between 7:45 a.m. and 8:05 a.m. in order to reduce interceptions against our bomber forces which will cross the french coast at 8:10 a.m."

Then comes something about weather conditions, recon information, target photos and intelligence (i.e. known allocation of enemy fighter forces, enemy AAA positions etc), the aircraft pool and pilots available for that mission. Then it's up to you - you can either auto-plan the mission or do it manually.

So you can plan something but it's within believable and reasonable limits.

[T}{OR]

The thing about strictly historical thinking is that the fact that the events that occurred were not what was 'meant to be'. They were not written in stone as what had to happen. The events that transpired and decisions that were made, big and small, could have been different.

A dynamic campaign that can offer variability based on a different set of events and decisions seems pretty reasonable, in addition of course to more strictly historical campaigns. These events and decisions would largely be completely independent of the player's actions, although the players actions would be part of the input, like successfully destroying radar stations or whatever.

For those of you with a more strictly historical mindset, what do you think about that? I'm kind of curious.

Nicely put, that sounds about right. It is on the lines that would be ideal for me. Some actions / attacks happening like they were planned, but not having big enough impact on the Battle outcome. Making out actions and input count for something.

On the other hand - total reenactment of the Battle with every single plane downed as it was would also be boring and impossible to do. :)

[zaelu]

Is this a photoshopped image of the SoW model??

I mean to make it look like a painting, not altering the model itself.



Yes, we can see some jaggies from aliasing on the nose windows frames.

[Ataros]

if you can understand the Russian language, you might be interested:

Oleg Maddox interview

http://gameguru.ru/articles/961/view.html

Oleg, do you say at 4.43 AI is so strong/complex it eats up all 8 cores if you have them? Do you mean AI uses like 80-100% of i7 processors such as you used at Igromir?

For example this is the case with complex AI in Arma2 that makes my 4 cores(HT disabled) of i7 860@3.8Ghz a bottleneck in some special modes (e.g. "Warfare" in offline mode with 150+ AI) dropping frame-rates as low as 8-10fps from 40-50 (for limited 20-50 AI).

Playing with such processor load is acceptable offline but not online. My question is if you did some tests in BoB online modes that use AI planes (e.g. "battle for resources" mode or something like that). How many AI planes can we expect in online modes without significant frame-rate drops? Is AI scalable enough to include 100+ AI in online mission (not much for 300x400 km map)? Several years ago you mentioned AI in BoB would be scalable to reduce cpu load, i.e. AI that is not visible by a player will have simplified FM, DM, etc.

Could you please tell us which online modes are planned to be included in the release version of BoB?

Anyway we can wait for 16-core CPUs to utilize full BoB potential. Tnx for great games you make!

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nynek, for me AI is just AI..more or less Artificial Idiocy. Just follow it a while and you see how it operates. Not a single sim/game has had a truly inpredictable AI so far. Usually means making AI inhumanely accurate, shortcuts in it's vehicle behaviour etc. Sure coding a complex AI would bring our systems to a crawl while trying to model it all among other things like DM, FM etc.

This said, in any campaign just learn the AI behaviour/quirks. Then it is just to swat them like flies and rack up more kills than any ace ever did in BoB, for example. There are certain patterns games follow and not that hard to spot if you look at it. So "surviving to fight another day" loses it's meaning. Done it so many times before and now having certain expectations regarding SoW: Being something new, the new benchmark.

Anyways, there is a wide variety of opinions and have to respect them. Also the vision of Oleg & Team with SoW. After it has finished installing we will see how it works. And I remain positive on that it will be more than worth the wait.

[Bobb4]

Love the screen shot...

Will Aces be modeled, one of the great joys i had when fly the venerable old Red Baron 3d back in the day was downing the odd ace.
While it should make no difference to the actual outcome it may be nice from an imersion point of view to fly along side the likes of Molders, Galland or Standford, Tuck or even Bader...

[major_setback]

Oleg:
- Will weather be dynamic (change during a mission). Will we see it change with time so that a mission might start with clear weather and end up with a summer storm?

- Will clouds move?

- Will ground textures/trees colour change with the season (on initial release)?

[Redwan]

Question to Oleg:

Does the beauty of the backgrounds from the game menu represent your ambition for the graphic quality of the in-game ?

I heard that your team was, among other, working a lot on the cloud modeling. Can we expect to have a similar graphic quality in the game play as in the second background of the game menu ?


Very nice update !

[Redwan]

Oleg:
- Will weather be dynamic (change during a mission). Will we see it change with time so that a mission might start with clear weather and end up with a summer storm?
- Will clouds move?

- Will ground textures/trees colour change with the season (on initial release
)?


1- Dynamyc weather Yes - It has been said many times in previous BoB threads.
2- If the answer to question 1 is yes -> also yes for question 2 of course.
3- This feature is already available in IL2 and in almost all the best sims on the market, so I'm almost sure that it will be available also in BoB.

I hope that Oleg will confirm that all these features will be present in the first release.

[Sutts]

1- Dynamyc weather Yes - It has been said many times in previous BoB threads.
2- If the answer to question 1 is yes -> also yes for question 2 of course.
3- This feature is already available in IL2 and in almost all the best sims on the market, so I'm almost sure that it will be available also in BoB.

I hope that Oleg will confirm that all these features will be present in the first release.

I remember Oleg saying that the trees will not change with the seasons (at least not with the first release). I don't think he mentioned the terrain.

[ECV56_Guevara]

I´ve read a lot of very interesting ideas here about tactical and strategical development of SOW. When I see Il-2, with a very limited log, the comunity has created Air War, Air Domination War and a variety of campaings with a vast complexity in a strategical way. If Sow (and I hope so) comes with a more complex log, and more "tactical" choices, like radars that affect fighters vectoring for example, or triggers, the comunity will do the rest. I bet that a month later the release, a new dinamic campaing system will be out.

[Aeromaster]

The pictures look great, and I can't wait for the release. Speaking of that, is there any new prediction on when SOW will be released?

[JG52Krupi]

2 weeks for sure :P

Rumour is next spring...

This post is off topic

OFF TOPIC WILL GET YOU A 7 DAY BAN - first offense

[LukeFF]

A flight sim cannot depict the layer above the regimental plane (= Geschwader or Wing).

Unless the Geschwaderstab was in the regular habit of flying combat missions, I don't see simulating LW operations above the Gruppe level as being feasible. Otherwise, I like your ideas.

[334th_Gazoo]

"Today is a hard day... I'm too tired, computer doesn't run well, wheather is bad, etc..."

Take a look at the Date and 'Time' on the Hurricane Screen Shot.

11-26-2010 04:39 AM!

You must live at the place man!

Thank you, to you and your Crew Sir.

[JG52Krupi]

"Today is a hard day... I'm too tired, computer doesn't run well, wheather is bad, etc..."

Take a look at the Date and 'Time' on the Hurricane Screen Shot.

11-26-2010 04:39 AM!

You must live at the place man!

Thank you, to you and your Crew Sir.

Now that's what you call dedication :0

[csThor]

Unless the Geschwaderstab was in the regular habit of flying combat missions, I don't see simulating LW operations above the Gruppe level as being feasible.
Actually they were. It was expected of them to lead the Geschwader in the air. This was one of the reasons why Göring replaced most JG Kommodores in the middle of August 1940 - the younger replacements (i.e. Mölders, Galland, Schellmann, Trautloft etc) were expected to lead by example.

[Dietger]

Actually they were. It was expected of them to lead the Geschwader in the air. This was one of the reasons why Göring replaced most JG Kommodores in the middle of August 1940 - the younger replacements (i.e. Mölders, Galland, Schellmann, Trautloft etc) were expected to lead by example.



The older where replaced cos the new weapon needed new tactics which were just developed during the Spainish civil war by Lützow and later Mölders. The old fighters from the Great war couldnt get them (tactics) operational, whiles sitting behind a desk. No one expected, that they really fight any more - although Theo Osterkamp did so very well during the battle.

In pedagogy it is well know that children learn by imitation and mimicry.
Parends are in fact paragons of their children.
Prussia adapted this truth for their military: FÜHREN DURCH VORBILD.
Its in fact a maxime for better Wehrmacht Füherer as well. "leading from the front". Strictly conected to things like honor and a truthfull character building.
Ok, I describe what leads to this, I dont mean, that this virtues are in place; its up to the iduvidual of course. Dont miss understand.
Another point maybe is/was, like today, when ever political leaders cry for the youth, they are so much easier to inveigled and deceived.

[C_G]

I found that LucasFilms' Their Finest Hour (and SWOTL) had a tremendous amount of re-play value because of the strategic side of the game. Trying out different strategies was an exciting part of the game. It had a major weakness in that it simplistically extrapolated from your mission success to all other missions flown and so it was comparatively easy to cripple the enemy if you did well in the mission you flew.

That said, I don't think that Oleg is going to include a strategic component to SOW:BOB. He's never mentioned anything of the sort and, on the contrary, has re-iterated on several occasions that "one pilot could not win the war". I do hope (and expect from what he's said), however, that damage to a Chain Home station will affe3ct the RAF response capability and that that damage will likely carry over from one mission to the next in a campaign.

C_G

[Hecke]

I found a video including a short interview with Luthier about SoW BoB.
Maybe someone who understands russian language can translate it.

2:37-4:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQiSOC5EN-I


And one more (I think parts of it have already been shown?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh1_mly_oZs

[Freycinet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh1_mly_oZs

If the clip starting at 09:20 is from BoB then I think the cloud worriers can stop worrying...

[JAMF]

It started off with old material and WoP footage. I don't recall seeing the footage at interval 7:00 to 7:19.

No idea where the footage from 9:19-9:39,10:22-10:29/:40-:45 came from. It looks like it's rendered, because of the camera angles and the motion from the aircraft.

[Freycinet]

And lovely tracers in the clip starting at 10:23, really mind-blowing graphics there.

[Freycinet]

It started off with old material and WoP footage. I don't recall seeing the footage at interval 7:00 to 7:19.

That was in a BoB update a while ago.


No idea where the footage from 9:19-9:39,10:22-10:29/:40-:45 came from. It looks like it's rendered, because of the camera angles and the motion from the aircraft.

Yup, that is fascinating footage, almost looks too good to be true.

[Dano]

Footage near the end came from here, at a guess the interviewer was asking Oleg and Luthier's opinions and thoughts on WoP and the video below.

pmlk99ENutw

[Dano]

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/DHa_info/DHanimations_Blog/Entries/2007/12/31_WW2_-_Battle_of_Britain_dog_fight..html

[major_setback]

Footage near the end came from here, at a guess the interviewer was asking Oleg and Luthier's opinions and thoughts on WoP and the video below.

pmlk99ENutw

Actually, I think that is based on this original CGI (?). Maybe this is the footage shown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hG8BoXXOp4

[JAMF]

Actually, I think that is based on this original CGI (?). Maybe this is the footage shown.
Reminds me of a "Discovery" or "National Geographic Channel" show, where they did a war-vehicles head-to-head and that would have been the Spit vs. 109 part.

If the interview was purely about SoW, it was bad that they used footage from different sources.

[Dano]

Actually, I think that is based on this original CGI (?). Maybe this is the footage shown.

Nope, it's from the one I linked, watch it again. Either way it's not from Oleg's BoB.

[Skoshi Tiger]

If the interview was purely about SoW, it was bad that they used footage from different sources.

One of the original things Oleg talked about many years ago was using the SOW engine for making CGI for film/television. 'Maybe' the interview was showing what it is capiable of in this mode. It may have nothing to do with the game version of the engine or the engine at all.

Without being able to speak Russian we should not jump to conclusions about anything seen in the interview.

'IF' the graphics are half as good as whats shown in the video's when SOW is released I'll be taking my long service leave, booking my family in for a months holiday in Bali and not tell them that I won't be comming till I get them through the gates at the airport!


Cheers!

[zapatista]

I found a video including a short interview with Luthier about SoW BoB.
Maybe someone who understands russian language can translate it.

2:37-4:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQiSOC5EN-I



in that interview with luthier i think they do flash an expected release date on the screen a few times ("something russian" 2011), like they do for the other games being previewed in the same tv show clip

anybody here read russian ? its a single word that precedes 2011, not a "1e quarter" type english statment that would be 2 words in english

since it seems clear we dont get a november/december release now (bit sad after all the hype at the russian game expo presentation), and its to late for any kind of pre xmass marketing drive, i'd say that means late feb 2011 by the earliest

[Aquarius]

in that interview with luthier i think they do flash an expected release date on the screen a few times ("something russian" 2011), like they do for the other games being previewed in the same tv show clip

anybody here read russian ? its a single word that precedes 2011, not a "1e quarter" type english statment that would be 2 words in english

since it seems clear we dont get a november/december release now (bit sad after all the hype at the russian game expo presentation), and its to late for any kind of pre xmass marketing drive, i'd say that means late feb 2011 by the earliest

That "something russian" is just "release"...no season, no month:(

[philip.ed]

The game is tangible, and that's all that matters. Too much work has been put in for it to be scrapped. I think we can bet our boots we'll see it next year, and considering that it was able to run on the systems at the Moscow game show, we have the chance to save up for better systems :cool:

That spitfire-in-the-clouds video still gives me chills as well.

[Richie]

Really weird they would use Spanish 109s in CGI.

[IFnXI]

I found a video including a short interview with Luthier about SoW BoB.
Maybe someone who understands russian language can translate it.

2:37-4:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQiSOC5EN-I

There is only one interesting moment that I never heared before. It`s "highly interactive training missions". All the rest of the time Ilia explains what is the thing flight simulators.


And one more (I think parts of it have already been shown?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh1_mly_oZs

3:32 Different trajectory for different types of bullets (tracers, high-explosive, armour-piercing).

3:50 Development of British campaign has been completed. Now they are creating a German campaign.

[Trumper]

Actually, I think that is based on this original CGI (?). Maybe this is the footage shown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hG8BoXXOp4

This film i believe is from the showscan simulator ride they have at Duxford.
http://www.showscan.com/films/ Scroll down about half way to Aerial dogfight.I don't know where the Bi plane comes into:confused:
The planes are real
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40684&highlight=duxford+simulator hope this helps :)

[zapatista]

Aquarius & IFnXI,

thanks for the russian text/voice translations !

[smink1701]

I hope in SOW Oleg will significantly dial back the accuracy of the german bomber gunners. They are WAY too effective in 1946.

[II/JG54_Emil]

I hope in SOW Oleg will significantly dial back the accuracy of the german bomber gunners. They are WAY too effective in 1946.

Only for German bomber gunners?

[II/JG54_Emil]

The graphics look all great but watching the whole video, I get the feeling that BoB will be a arcade game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh1_mly_oZs

:(

[The Kraken]

The graphics look all great but watching the whole video, I get the feeling that BoB will be a arcade game.

And you base this opinion on which aspects of those rarely SoW-related snippets in that video? Or was it something Oleg said?

[Friendly_flyer]

The graphics look all great but watching the whole video, I get the feeling that BoB will be a arcade game.(

I am fairly certain the BoB engine will be good enough and versatile enough the came will be able to function bout as an arcade game on simple settings, and as a hard core sim on hard settings.

[Old_Canuck]

Only for German bomber gunners?

What a great idea! Make it so, O-Team.

[Richie]

The graphics look all great but watching the whole video, I get the feeling that BoB will be a arcade game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh1_mly_oZs

:(


Mostly in that video we're looking at Wings Of Prey, I don't know why the have that up there.

[JG52Wolfen]

anyone can translate please!!!

[mothE]

Learn Russian, guys :mrgreen:
Much to translate :-?
Nothing new, Oleg speaks again about DM, FM. Very sensitive / realistic.
Absolutely new game engine. Compare with old IL-2
Questions about online, it is usual answers. 128 persons, you can get some bot plane already in flight (gunner, navigator, etc.) without taking off, if you want, no end time for the map.
Talk about the SU-26, answers the question "preffer air" - "Spitfire".
Possibility to add more driven (more later, probably after release, in patches, even by other programmers).
New players can turn off everything (level of difficulty), also physical(trajectory) of different tracers --------
Ilya says a company ready for the RAF, in project now finishing company for LW.
"After the first series of BOB, on course planning and the Eastern Front, and possibly Africa, Italy and Korea"

Sorry for my English :rolleyes:

[mothE]

Mostly in that video we're looking at Wings Of Prey, I don't know why the have that up there.

Nobody knows this :mrgreen:
Absolutely no sense
No threads on video about Wop

[BadAim]

Typical screw up guy's, I'm sure. Someone said "we need some footage for this interview with the IL2 guy about his new project" and the guy who obviously knows nothing about the subject got the footage and spliced it in and it went to production without being checked. It happens constantly on TV and Hollywood, why not on the Internet?

[Blackdog_kt]

First of all, let me convey my belated but well deserved thanks for the update, especially since we've been told that it was not easy to get it done for us.

Things look better and better each week and that's all i can say about it for now :grin:

Now, as for the campaign engine, i guess it is within the scope of the thread since
a) it deals explicitly with important game features and
b) i don't see anyone getting banned because of discussing it, so i suppose it's safe to join in :-P

This is exactly what I don't want. It is against my idea of what a flight simulation campaign must be like. Strategic decisions (which you have to take in BoB) are the prerogative of generals which - and yes, I know I am repeating myself - do not fly combat missions.

A flight sim cannot depict the layer above the regimental plane (= Geschwader or Wing). As such any flight sim campaign that tries to mingle these two very different things is a gamey crutch and I can't stand such things. There is a lot to be done when the layers of responsibility are accurately depicted (management of aircrew, tactical planning of how to fulfill the task/mission which one's assigned by the Fliegerkorps / Luftflotte / Group Command etc). What you propose is a strategy campaign that is about as immersive to me as a blank sheet of paper. :rolleyes:

So what I wish for? Let's take Flanker's example of Erprobungsgruppe 210 and assume the player chose the rank of Hauptmann/Major and is in command of said unit. The player receives a mission target (or a group of targets) such as a bunch of CH and CHL stations in the Dover area. He receives a timeframe during which the attack has to take place (which is interwoven with the other ops of Luftflotte 2 that day) and in this case he has to plan how to employ his three Staffeln to take out the target(s) without suffering too many losses. For the briefing I see something along these lines:

"Einsatzbefehl - 13 August 1940

To: Erprobungsgruppe 210
From: Stab Luftflotte 2

You are tasked to conduct a strike against the british radar stations at Dover and Rye (map with marked target locations). The attack has to be conducted between 7:45 a.m. and 8:05 a.m. in order to reduce interceptions against our bomber forces which will cross the french coast at 8:10 a.m."

Then comes something about weather conditions, recon information, target photos and intelligence (i.e. known allocation of enemy fighter forces, enemy AAA positions etc), the aircraft pool and pilots available for that mission. Then it's up to you - you can either auto-plan the mission or do it manually.

So you can plan something but it's within believable and reasonable limits.

That's pretty much what i had in mind as well for a campaign system. I don't mind having an extra, full-on strategic mode where you are planning missions as a theater commander but flying them as if you are in the shoes of many different pilots for those who would like something like this, but not to the detriment of having what you describe: the feeling of being a tiny cog in an enormous war machine, recreating the day to day life of a single pilot in a single unit.

The player could then decide on the things he would historically have responsibility for, based on his rank. The HQ and generals assign your unit's orders/general goals/targets and if you have the appropriate rank you can plan the raids according to intel,weather and requirements of other units (or press the auto-generate button) and then fly them.

As for the effect on history, it doesn't have to be a black or white case of "either full-on ahistorical or totally scripted". Anyone remember European Air War? Whatever you did the allies would still win. However, you could influence how fast and how easily/hard it happened.
If you were doing well in your missions you got promoted and took command of a unit. If you took care to protect your pilots and accomplish your missions (thanks to that game's very good radio command interface), your unit's overall contribution to the war effort increased.

It was a very balanced deal. You actions had an effect in the dynamic campaign without overturning the historical outcome of the war. How? Small stuff and local effects.

I think this would be a very good campaign system for the SoW series as well, especially since we know we'll be getting multi-layered AI (an old example from an interview by mr Oleg Maddox: shooting the generator turns off the searchlights and the flak guns can't aim anymore).

Since SoW will feature so many individual details per each unit modelled, i think we'll have enough tools to focus on having dynamic occurences around the player while still preserving the historical accuracy in the grand scheme of things. I think this is the perfect mix, because you feel small enough to convey the feeling that you are just a soldier in a war, but not totally powerless to influence day to day situations in your part of the front.

For example if you command the best fighter bomber unit in the 8th AF, the D-day landings might happen a couple of weeks earlier and the troops on the ground in your sector might advance a little faster thanks to your support.
In a similar fashion, if you rise to command a luftwaffe unit that excels under your leadership, maybe you can delay D-Day for a couple of weeks and the allied troops in your sector advance slower because of your determined resistance, but they will still advance all the way into Germany.

The broad outcome is still historically correct, but the local situation in the air and on the ground is subjected to the effects of the player's actions, so we get the best of both worlds: historical accuracy and replayability/incentives to improve. It gives a varied yet accurate experience for each campaign we will ever start ;)

I'd really love to know what the developers think about this, because i have a feeling we'll be very pleasantly surprised.

[Richie]

Learn Russian, guys :mrgreen:
Much to translate :-?
Nothing new, Oleg speaks again about DM, FM. Very sensitive / realistic.
Absolutely new game engine. Compare with old IL-2
Questions about online, it is usual answers. 128 persons, you can get some bot plane already in flight (gunner, navigator, etc.) without taking off, if you want, no end time for the map.
Talk about the SU-26, answers the question "preffer air" - "Spitfire".
Possibility to add more driven (more later, probably after release, in patches, even by other programmers).
New players can turn off everything (level of difficulty), also physical(trajectory) of different tracers --------
Ilya says a company ready for the RAF, in project now finishing company for LW.
"After the first series of BOB, on course planning and the Eastern Front, and possibly Africa, Italy and Korea"




Sorry for my English :rolleyes:


You did a good job mothE. Thanks for your help

[caprera]

Afrika.... :rolleyes:

[addman]

Afrika.... :rolleyes:

indeed, Africa :rolleyes: we can always dream...

[Richie]

indeed, Africa :rolleyes: we can always dream...


As you can see by my avitar North Africa is my favorite arena for IL-2

[philip.ed]

Oleg has commented on Africa.... :-P

[Richie]

I'm dreaming of Libya and F4s right now. :)

I can only imagine what it will all look like in Storm Of War.