Friday 2010-10-29 Dev. update and Discussion

[tourmaline]

I'd rather have the videocard with the best picture ingame and that is defenately ATI! Furthermore, the new series of cards announced will be faster then what nvidia has in stores.

It always has been a leapfrog game between nvidia and ati of who has the fastest card at a certain time. In the end, it's only a few frames between them.:cool:

Nice update oleg and team! Really like the sound ingame...

I am drooling!

Looking at the screenshots, there's hardly anything to moan about, the detail of the buildings is more then adequate for a flightsim.
I'd rather have correct aviation then a superb building on the ground, we just bomb them anyway,lol.



Depending on the game... ATI could come out with a better driver than NVIDIA for SOW ...Who's to tell ? ;) Would you then buy NVIDIA ?

Again my english translation may be deficient....hum...:rolleyes:

If you compare overall graphic performances between those 2 companies , they are almost identical...So ATI is a bettrer choice regarding power consumption, (and reliability ) for someone who plays different games ...

Salute !

[Les]

"For sure we use most of the real recording sounds. On the ground, in flight, in cockpit.
And is not from the simple camcoder (apriory wrong), but the simulation of the human head. Search in internet to understand these principles. This is the most right way to make realistic sound..." - Oleg.

For those interested in what Oleg's talking about here, check out these Binaural and Holophonics (different but similar technology) video's. Headphones required.

Poor quality demo and explanation of binaural recording - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h564qjkJ-5I&feature=related

Doppler effect - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOfz5yYH9u8&feature=related

Stereo music compared to binaural music (probably just an imitation of the binaural effect but you get the idea) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRih10xLhD8&feature=related

Some famous Holophonic recordings (6:36 onwards is essential listening) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3MvVPgLJWc&feature=related

More Holophonics recordings Part1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT1XuB95qMk&feature=related

**Part2 Fireworks, but imagine if something similar to this were used for the ground war in SOW - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAQVx8DqHNA&feature=related


P.S.

Anyone care to calculate the size and borders of the BOB map, based on the sliders in the picture of London Oleg posted, or would that be cheating and taking advantage of Oleg's generosity in showing us the picture?

[Splitter]

I dunno, I have always had much better luck with nVidia. I've had two ATI cards burn up and neither one really handled the games I was playing very well (the problem always seemed to be water for some reason).

Really, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other to me though. I would still buy an ATI that was a good value. Let's just be thankfull there is some competition or we would be paying $1000 for a decent card.

Splitter

[Hecke]

But I don't want to repeat each time what other people post every update more than 20 times.

I don't think it's necessary to repeat that...

the planes are gorgeous
the water is excellent
the cockpits are beautiful
the terrain is getting better each time
...

I think nobody doesn't agree with that and Oleg knows that and it's already been said so often.
Maybe I should do it like most of you.
Just put a smiley behind each sentence even if it's not hyperpositive and noone cares about it. :grin:

[kalimba]

I dunno, I have always had much better luck with nVidia. I've had two ATI cards burn up and neither one really handled the games I was playing very well (the problem always seemed to be water for some reason).

Really, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other to me though. I would still buy an ATI that was a good value. Let's just be thankfull there is some competition or we would be paying $1000 for a decent card.

Splitter

I remember playing Jane's WW2 Figthers...3DFX cards were the best for this game with its " glide" api that nVIDIA did'nt have at that time...But then 3DFX was gone...And so its fabulous "glide"...

Then we had OpenGL....Who had the "best " OpenGl api ? ;)

Now its DX11...

So everyone is equal now ! May the best win ! :grin:

Salute !

[Baron]

Regarding NVidia vs Ati, please leave it alone in this threadh.

Oleg allredy said that (as far as i can tell) Ati isnt intrested on the same level NVidia is in cooperating. Dont ask me why, but it sounds typicall Ati. (AMD)

Harsh i know, but thats how i intepret it.

[Azimech]

Ah yes... the Voodoo cards. I had a Voodoo II and used it for Half-Life, Carmageddon 2 and such... Then System Shock 2 caught my eye, and it would crash on the Voodoo. So I bought me a Matrox G200. Nice memories.

Fine with me if DirectX will be the only standard for the future. I've had enough of all those different standards. It wastes money and time for both consumer and developer.

[Dano]

P.S.

Anyone care to calculate the size and borders of the BOB map, based on the sliders in the picture of London Oleg posted, or would that be cheating and taking advantage of Oleg's generosity in showing us the picture?

Well based on a beer infused guess and some very bad and most likely incorrect mathematics I came up with this:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3794&stc=1&d=1288388207

[d165w3ll]

The night lighting is seriously atmospheric/fantastic ... but what about the blackout? Don't those residents know there's a war on?!

PPanPan

Oi! Put that light out!

http://www.literarynorfolk.co.uk/dad's_army.htm

[bf-110]

Great news!

WoW!The crash landings are far more complex than in IL2!
You used new voices for SoW?Thought the IL2 ones were going to be used.

What you mean with buildings?Strange,Combat Flight Simulator 3 had buildings such as Eiffel Tower...

[d165w3ll]

Thanks Oleg for the update. As others have said it gets better each week.

Thanks also to Rodolphe for the various interesting posts - nice bits of extra information. Appreciated.

I'd like to add the perfect accompaniment to the night-time shot:

"Put that light out!..Put that light out!!!"


Believe we may have to wait for 3rd party update to get the animated ARP wardens :)

(This will mean nothing whatsoever to people unfamiliar with a certain well-loved British comedy show.....)

Oh - I've just seen Kendo has beaten me to it! :-( AND found a pic of Hodges!

[fireflyerz]

Good greif, what a bloody mad house , gets worse every week....................

[Splitter]

I am curious...in the original post Oleg said that some structures are indestructible so as to comply with laws in those countries.

Are there really laws that prohibit such things in computer games?

I would think making those structures indestructible would fall more in line with good taste than illegal. Just curious.

Splitter

[Bogusheadbox]

If this has been mentioned previously, please forgive me. But a little criticism

The radio coms chatter. sounds to me like several comms at once and that is not possible. You should get a garbled carrier wave if one steps over the other on comms. Not hear two voices at once.

Unless i missed something that is the reason for the multiple voices

[imaca]

Sorry, I thought you were trying to say that the .303 bullets carried the tracer inside them. On some levels this is right, but none of the .303 bullets intended to inflict damage did :-P
The tracer-rounds, of course, would be in the shape/calibre of the round required to be fired.
From:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/BoB.htm

The incendiary ammunition was also variable in performance. Comparative British tests of British .303" and German 7.92 mm incendiary ammunition against the self-sealing wing tanks in the Blenheim, also fired from 200 yards (180m) astern, revealed that the .303" B. Mk IV incendiary tracer (based on the First World War Buckingham design – it was ignited on firing and burned on its way to the target) and the 7.92 mm were about equal, each setting the tanks alight with about one in ten shots fired.

[bf-110]

Why the (same) weapons sound are different?
The 50 Cal of IceFire video sounds to blow a person away,but at Xilon 50 Cal video it sounds like kid fireworks...

And BTW,is there any plans to add infantry to SoW,Oleg?

[Richie]

The other Battle Of Britain movie witch I actually like even more than the 1969 Battle Of Britain. Hope And Glory :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLJKIsCtkic&feature=email&email=comment_received

[Blakduk]

Wow!
The WIP video of SOW makes Il2-1946 look very old, especially considering that Il2 is fully mature product.
Who was flying the Hurricane? I was screaming at them to use a bit of rudder to line up their shot properly (I hope they were inaccurate on purpose and turned away to hide the damage modelling on the He111 ;-))
I also noticed the first frame had the propellor frozen and gauges at zero. They quickly snap into action when the video starts playing and bounce around for a while. I hope this doesn't mean an airstart will automatically overstress the engine components (I've had this happen a few times in Il2 in sensitive planes such as the Me262 where an airstart has jolted the throttle once i've made an adjustment and exploded the engine). I'm certain that Beta testing will reveal any flaws like this.

The first time i played Il2 vs 1.2 (many years ago) i was astounded at the 'realism' of it. With each weekly update i am becoming more certain Oleg and his team will astonish me again.
Good luck at the trade show guys!

[Necrobaron]

5th - Simply some details of important places in London (such several objects will be impossible to destroy that to have no problems with the laws in some contries).

Fantastic update!

Can you or someone else explain what I quoted above? There are laws that prevent some buildings from being depicted as damaged or destroyed? :confused:

On another tangent, I am continually amazed at people who still whine about graphics. While graphics can be an important immersive aspect, what goes on "behind the scenes*" in a sim is infinitesimally more important. True sims run much deeper that what the graphics, in a screenshot or otherwise, might show and people need to remember that. Even if SoW looked exactly the same as the IL-2 sim we fell in love with nearly 10 years ago (which it certainly does not, contrary to what some petulant buffoons might suggest or imply), I'd be willing to bet that it is what we can't see that will be far more complicated and detailed, by several orders of magnitude, than what IL-2 could achieve. Because of this, SoW will demonstrate that it is a sim of this decade and not of the last.

*Flight modelling, atmospheric/weather conditions, damage modelling, environmental effects, etc.
________
BREAKUP ADVICE DICUSSION (http://www.love-help.org/breakup-advice/)

[major_setback]

I am continually amazed at people who still whine about graphics. While graphics can be an important immersive aspect, what goes on "behind the scenes*" in a sim is infinitesimally more important.

In an update that consists of (mostly) 100 percent graphic material it would be surprising if were not discussed. Whining is another matter. I can do without that.

[klem]

Oleg, thanks very much.

A couple of questions.

Will there be adjustable turbulence at various altitudes? What we get in IL-2 seems to be quite coarse/rough. I'd like to see more use of turbulence but I think the mission builders leave it out because it is too coarse/crude especially for upper layers.

On the Tracer question, there were 'flame' type tracers which IceFire showed so well in his post. There were also the spiral (vortex?) smoke types but the third type the RAF used did not 'trace' the trajectory but gave a visible 'splash' on impact to confirm correct aim. It was called "DeWilde" ammunition and was very popular with the pilots. Will we have that?

Will the undercarriage modelling be better in SoW. Even when I pull of a 'greaser' in an IL-2 Spitfire there is a good chance it will still bounce around like a drunken turkey. The Oleo compression doesn't seem to be modelled too well (sorry). I asked a friend about this who travelled a lot in a 2 seat Spitfire (and took control etc) and he said that it might bounce in the direction of flight but it wouldn't usually 'wobble' very badly laterally. It isn't only the Spit though.

Wikipedia says you say November 2010.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_of_War:_Battle_of_Britain
2 Weeks even?
I won't hold you to that but..... this year? :-0


Thanks

[Skoshi Tiger]

Very Good work Oleg&Co!

The wait for this sim to be released will be hard!



Why the (same) weapons sound are different?
The 50 Cal of IceFire video sounds to blow a person away,but at Xilon 50 Cal video it sounds like kid fireworks...

And BTW,is there any plans to add infantry to SoW,Oleg?

Microphones on consumer vidio cameras have a very limited range compared to proffesional ones and vary in their capabilities. Also the noise is too loud or if a camera is too close to the sound source it can be pushed beyond their range.

There are other factors such as in some video's are in the open field and the another (with the flares) looks like it was shot from the deck of a boat (sorry - ship!). From the ship you would get echo's from the hard surfaces which would completly alter the sound.

Cheers!

[swiss]

ANd in the end, it is allways witch company will do the best drivers for such and such game...
SO if you are eco-friendly, ATI is the way to go....;)

ATI don't produce better cards, they produce different cards.
Sometimes ATI leads, somtimes nvidia, and it's not only about the drivers.

I consider myself eco friendly - I believe 100% in nuclear power, that's also what I have(you even have to tick away water energy in Switzerland).
NP maybe is not the final solution, but it will do until we got the fusion under control. ;)
Now, I really hate Ati for the sole reason, whenever they come up with a new driver, it may increase fps for some games, but same time produces new problems, problems which have been thought to be already solved with the previous driver.
Nvidias are like V8 engines, loud, consume a lot, generate a lot of heat, but reliable.
Atis are like boosted up mini displacement engines, cheaper at the gas station, but the require a shitload of maintenance.
(and once you got it back from the garage, you'll have to deal with new issues...)
nv ftw.

[swiss]

I am curious...in the original post Oleg said that some structures are indestructible so as to comply with laws in those countries.

Are there really laws that prohibit such things in computer games?

I would think making those structures indestructible would fall more in line with good taste than illegal. Just curious.

Splitter

In fact, I just heard today the Bristish gov. caused some trouble to a gamemaker(was it arma?) because you could pick the side of the taliban.
No sh*t, they had to remove it, and now you can pick the "opposing force" instead.

Cute, isn't it?

[=69.GIAP=TOOZ]

Firstly I loved seeing the cockpit in action and seeing all the dials jumping around, it really looks amazing!

And the screenshots are cool - but why can't I blow up them bloody germans in Buck House?

Anyway, I was looking at the London map and as I live in London just now I wanted to see where I live in comparison to what is shown in this screenie. So, I had the idea of getting a current map of London and trying to scale it so that it overlays reasonably accurately onto the SoW map posted.

I went to multimap and brought up London and chose the sattelite view as I figured the easiest way of aligning both maps was by using the Thames. So, I took a screenie, measured the height in pixels of the big curve just east of the Royal Vic Docks on both maps and adjusted the multimap screenie so it would fit roughly.

I then laid the multimap screenie on top of the SoW screenie and line em up and I found that I had done a reasonable job of scaling the curve in the river, but then I noticed that the further west you went the more out of sync the two maps were.

Now I know that the Thames has changed its course a little over the last 70-odd years but it wouldn't account for this amount of disparity. I also compared the locations of the royal parks and they were more or less the same size on each pic but were way off in alignment.

So, I wonder what was used to draw the map for the game? Did you use ordinance survey maps of the time, or aerial photographs from the time, or a combination?

Of course, the multimap pic could be wrong, and I could have mucked the scaling, but there just seems to be far too much of a difference between the two.

Anyway, what do you think: Here's my layered pic and I hope you can make out the course of both rivers for comparison:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1438/5127408916_f819568bde_b.jpg

[carl]

So everyone is equal now ! May the best win !
lol but oleg had a meeting with nvidia monday gone, so at least at first there driver/card combo could be the best:lol:

[Blakduk]

On another tangent, I am continually amazed at people who still whine about graphics. While graphics can be an important immersive aspect, what goes on "behind the scenes*" in a sim is infinitesimally more important. .

Necro- i assume you meant to say 'infinitely'.
Infinitesimal basically means something is so small as to almost be unmeasurable.
I agree with your post but couldn't resist being an irritating net-nerd and correcting your grammar;)

[Splitter]

In fact, I just heard today the Bristish gov. caused some trouble to a gamemaker(was it arma?) because you could pick the side of the taliban.
No sh*t, they had to remove it, and now you can pick the "opposing force" instead.

Cute, isn't it?

If I recall correctly, that started here in the US with the military banning the sale of MOH on bases. I'm not sure how I feel about this. I don't think it makes anyone go out and join the Taliban. But it is the military's right to say what is sold on their bases.

I like FPS shooters, but I would be a bit queasy playing a game that involves an ongoing war. It might not make sense, but I would feel that way playing for either side.

Thank goodness for WWII :)

Splitter

[major_setback]

Firstly I loved seeing the cockpit in action and seeing all the dials jumping around, it really looks amazing!

And the screenshots are cool - but why can't I blow up them bloody germans in Buck House?

Anyway, I was looking at the London map and as I live in London just now I wanted to see where I live in comparison to what is shown in this screenie. So, I had the idea of getting a current map of London and trying to scale it so that it overlays reasonably accurately onto the SoW map posted.

I went to multimap and brought up London and chose the sattelite view as I figured the easiest way of aligning both maps was by using the Thames. So, I took a screenie, measured the height in pixels of the big curve just east of the Royal Vic Docks on both maps and adjusted the multimap screenie so it would fit roughly.

I then laid the multimap screenie on top of the SoW screenie and line em up and I found that I had done a reasonable job of scaling the curve in the river, but then I noticed that the further west you went the more out of sync the two maps were.

Now I know that the Thames has changed its course a little over the last 70-odd years but it wouldn't account for this amount of disparity. I also compared the locations of the royal parks and they were more or less the same size on each pic but were way off in alignment.

So, I wonder what was used to draw the map for the game? Did you use ordinance survey maps of the time, or aerial photographs from the time, or a combination?

Of course, the multimap pic could be wrong, and I could have mucked the scaling, but there just seems to be far too much of a difference between the two.

Anyway, what do you think: Here's my layered pic and I hope you can make out the course of both rivers for comparison:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1438/5127408916_f819568bde_b.jpg

I opened London map from 'Google maps' in Photoshop Elements and layered it with the game map. I coloured the 'Google Thames' red, and showed it above the game map. I needed to rescale (keeping proportions correct) and rotate about 1 degree. They match very well. I didn't mark the airfields.

The gaps in the colour are where road and place-names were.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Clipboardmap02.jpg

[proton45]

Thanks Oleg...

I have been listening to the video with headphones....and I like the direction your taking, as is indicated by the sound(s) of the clip. The sound of the machine guns indicates a lot of weight and force (they sound deadly). I'm really curious to hear what it sounds like to get hit (damaged)...

Question: Will each hit make its own sound? Will a glass hit make a "glass sound" and will aluminum sound different then steel? Example...will a hit that penetrates an aluminum skin and then hits the armored back-plate make the appropriate sounds?

Thanks you very much

[major_setback]

Thanks Oleg...

I have been listening to the video with headphones....and I like the direction your taking, as is indicated by the sound(s) of the clip. The sound of the machine guns indicates a lot of weight and force (they sound deadly). I'm really curious to hear what it sounds like to get hit (damaged)...

Question: Will each hit make its own sound? Will a glass hit make a "glass sound" and will aluminum sound different then steel? Example...will a hit that penetrates an aluminum skin and then hits the armored back-plate make the appropriate sounds?

Thanks you very much

I agree.
We now hear a sound I have wanted for a long time: many pilots talked of their guns sounding like canvas (cloth) ripping. We can hear it now!
(Maybe it was present in FB, but if so was only heard by those with good sound systems).

[kalimba]

So everyone is equal now ! May the best win !
lol but oleg had a meeting with nvidia monday gone, so at least at first there driver/card combo could be the best:lol:

I agree with you on one thing : If you build a rig mainly for SOW and don't care too much about power consumption, nVidia would probably be the way to go for initial release...;)
I am not in a debate nVidia/ATI ...They both have good and bad in each of them...But nVIDIA should find a way to be more eco-friendly...:-)

Salute !

[kalimba]

ATI don't produce better cards, they produce different cards.
Sometimes ATI leads, somtimes nvidia, and it's not only about the drivers.

I consider myself eco friendly - I believe 100% in nuclear power, that's also what I have(you even have to tick away water energy in Switzerland).
NP maybe is not the final solution, but it will do until we got the fusion under control. ;)
Now, I really hate Ati for the sole reason, whenever they come up with a new driver, it may increase fps for some games, but same time produces new problems, problems which have been thought to be already solved with the previous driver.
Nvidias are like V8 engines, loud, consume a lot, generate a lot of heat, but reliable.
Atis are like boosted up mini displacement engines, cheaper at the gas station, but the require a shitload of maintenance.
(and once you got it back from the garage, you'll have to deal with new issues...)
nv ftw.

So we need a good nVIDIA/ATI Hybrid ! :grin:

SAlute !

[major_setback]

The lights in houses: Agreed that the blackout would mean they are not used much.

BUT if light can pass through the windows from inside, then surely burning buildings will look more real too, with flames seen through windows (or lights could be used together with flames)!!!

Like this:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/shot_20101025_162429flames3.jpg

[BadAim]

ATI don't produce better cards, they produce different cards.
Sometimes ATI leads, somtimes nvidia, and it's not only about the drivers.

I consider myself eco friendly - I believe 100% in nuclear power, that's also what I have(you even have to tick away water energy in Switzerland).
NP maybe is not the final solution, but it will do until we got the fusion under control. ;)
Now, I really hate Ati for the sole reason, whenever they come up with a new driver, it may increase fps for some games, but same time produces new problems, problems which have been thought to be already solved with the previous driver.
Nvidias are like V8 engines, loud, consume a lot, generate a lot of heat, but reliable.
Atis are like boosted up mini displacement engines, cheaper at the gas station, but the require a shitload of maintenance.
(and once you got it back from the garage, you'll have to deal with new issues...)
nv ftw.

I love the comparison, I just upgraded to a GTX 470 (after my ATI 4850 croaked), and it really reminds me of my '69 Chevelle SS396: It's noisy, runs hot, but goes like hell! I was amazed at the amount of hot air the thing blows out when running a game. (still not so much as the politicians this season)

[inferno7312]

That is funy! what kind of weapon that spitfire uses?
Laser Gun?.... Is it Star War....

[kalimba]

I love the comparison, I just upgraded to a GTX 470 (after my ATI 4850 croaked), and it really reminds me of my '69 Chevelle SS396: It's noisy, runs hot, but goes like hell! I was amazed at the amount of hot air the thing blows out when running a game. (still not so much as the politicians this season)

Winter is at our door...Your 470 will keep your feet and twins warm and comfy !;)


Enjoy your new rig ! Hope it will play SOW smoothly :grin:

SAlute!

[BadAim]

Oleg, I might be a hopeless fanboi, but this video brings it to a whole new level. Good luck at the show, and happy bug hunting! I hope all your bugs are easily squashed! I'm chomping at the bit for the final release.

[BadAim]

Winter is at our door...Your 470 will keep your feet and twins warm and comfy !;)


Enjoy your new rig ! Hope it will play SOW smoothly :grin:

SAlute!

HA! My 'game room' is always the warmest room in the house, at least now that I've switched to Nvidia. (BTW, doesn't GTX470 just sound MANLY!)

[kalimba]

HA! My 'game room' is always the warmest room in the house, at least now that I've switched to Nvidia. (BTW, doesn't GTX470 just sound MANLY!)

Haha! nVIDIA got you by the ...Manlies ! ;) They should have called it GTO 4'70 though...:grin:

Have a nice and warm evening BadAim !

Salute

[AndyJWest]

Regarding =69.GIAP=TOOZ's query about the map, and major_setback's reply, it's worth remembering that there are several different ways of projecting the surface of a sphere (like the Earth) onto a flat surface (a map), but none of them are 'correct' - they all distort in one way or another. Over the area shown on Oleg's screenshot, this isn't likely to be that noticeable though, so I'd be inclined to suggest the satellite image was distorted. To complicate things further, there may be three different 'norths' to align the map on - Magnetic North, which has the unfortunate habit of wandering around, and currently resides somewhere in Canada, True North, or the direction towards the northern end of Earth's rotational axis, which fortunately only moves slowly (over millennia), and 'Grid North' which is a convenience for cartographers - an arbitrary datum that may match True North at some point on the map, but diverges as you move away, to simplify dealing with the problems of projection. Since Oleg has said he is modelling the Earth as a sphere, he's presumably figured out which projection to use on maps, and to make comparisons, you need to find another map using the same projection, datum etc.

[Necrobaron]

Necro- i assume you meant to say 'infinitely'.
Infinitesimal basically means something is so small as to almost be unmeasurable.
I agree with your post but couldn't resist being an irritating net-nerd and correcting your grammar;)

Haha, no worries mate!

That's what I get for typing them big words in a hurry...;)
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[=69.GIAP=TOOZ]

Regarding =69.GIAP=TOOZ's query about the map, and major_setback's reply, it's worth remembering that there are several different ways of projecting the surface of a sphere (like the Earth) onto a flat surface (a map), but none of them are 'correct' - they all distort in one way or another.

I kind of thought about this myself after I'd finished my rather quick and slapdash job, as based on my pic the further away from the centre of the picture the more elongated the river becomes which on a satelite image would happen because of the curvature of the earth. Then looking at setback's attempt it shows a far better alignment, and I'm assuming he used the map setting rather than the satelite setting? Anyway, I was just curious, but the map still looks great (cept for the errant appearance of that reservoir...!).

[Damixu]

Is there a chance in the future to influence the belting of aircraft guns ammunition? Like picking more mine rounds and tracers instead of armour piercing or ball ammo? Or having more incendiary ammunition?

Depending the mission the proper belting of guns is crucial to make or fail the mission.

Usually the pilots had their preference to the machine gun and cannon belting what ammunition to have in what series. This is same as guns convergence set by a individual pilots taste and way of dogfighting.

[Blackdog_kt]

Fantastic update!

Can you or someone else explain what I quoted above? There are laws that prevent some buildings from being depicted as damaged or destroyed? :confused:

On another tangent, I am continually amazed at people who still whine about graphics. While graphics can be an important immersive aspect, what goes on "behind the scenes*" in a sim is infinitesimally more important. True sims run much deeper that what the graphics, in a screenshot or otherwise, might show and people need to remember that. Even if SoW looked exactly the same as the IL-2 sim we fell in love with nearly 10 years ago (which it certainly does not, contrary to what some petulant buffoons might suggest or imply), I'd be willing to bet that it is what we can't see that will be far more complicated and detailed, by several orders of magnitude, than what IL-2 could achieve. Because of this, SoW will demonstrate that it is a sim of this decade and not of the last.

*Flight modelling, atmospheric/weather conditions, damage modelling, environmental effects, etc.

I wouldn't have worded it exactly like this, but to be honest i couldn't agree more with the underlying meaning the above post carries. It's what's under the hood, so to speak, that i'm itching the most to know about. Graphics and sounds can be patched whenever the developer wants, but core capabilities like weather simulation or layered AI interactions don't happen overnight and that's why they are the most important parts to get right from the start.

[Bearcat]

Possible.

Coolness!! Thanks!

[Tempered]

Tracers: Part o the problem with tracers was that their ballistics were not the same as the AP or incendiary rounds. In other words (and simplified) they did not hit where the other rounds hit.

As a shooter, I can tell you that even the smallest differences in rounds can have GREAT effect on point of impact. Even different brands (manufacturers) with the exact same specifications can have different points of impact.

At close range, these effects are minimal. At longer ranges, they become huge. Obviously tracers do not do the same damage as AP rounds. So, some units took the tracers out all together and to very good result reportedly.

As for the smoke, I have never personally seen a tracer that left a smoke trail. However, smoke trails are clearly visible in some WWII footage. Maybe the composition has changed (like the change to smokeless powder in the charge for the round).

At 1000 yards, a .50 cal bullet drops around 30 feet and it IS possible to see the flight path of the bullet without it being a tracer. Whether or not this would be possible to see from an aircraft I don't know (but I would love to find out in person lol).

Oleg, thank you for the update. The night shot is amazing. The video makes me want to get my hands on it so much my palms itch. I LOVED the AI Hurricane's attack run!

Splitter

modern tracers do not smoke because the bullet actually glows from heat and chemical reaction, not from burning a combustible material.

[Bearcat]

Nothing wrong with that, but it's all about programming.
Computers have permanently developed better and better since the last 9 years. But SoW BoB doensn't look like 9 years better than IL-2. ;)
Anyway, I can't wait to get my hands on that before christmas.

I do think in the next video that I maybe will post in a two weeks, you will see the difference in detail by a very great exponete... and willl try to compare with any WWII sim to date...and with Il-2....
Or... Il-2 was also a great step ahead for its time...

You comparison is totally wrong with years. You don't see the real true and comparing uncomparable things really.

When Il-2 was born some journalists were comparing the ground modeling of tanks etc in a flight sim with tank sims of its time.....
Now.. you will see later some. And If you can't see the difference in a flight sim and don't understand why so and not so in a fligth sim, but not in shooter, then I'm sorry...
But a t first please tery to compare the size of maps in these jenres and its details... maybe this comaprison and lmts will explain you something... My english is poor top explain such things for shot time.

You hit it on the head though.. flight sims cover much much larger distances than any other genre... No other gaming genre that I know of has to have maps that potentially can cover thousands of square miles.. I think the Bessarabia map.. which is a stock map given to us by 1C in I think either 4.08 or 4.09b I cant remember, is if my calculations are correct @ 91,800 square kilometers... (@270x340) and you can land not only anywhere on that map terrain permitting... but like all the maps in this sim... anywhere off the map as well.. .. (again correct me if I am wrong.. ) and this was a feature from day one..

For me the fact that this 9 year old sim can still give you more .. with a hardware upgrade... 9 years after it's release... speaks for itself... 9 years later.... We are talking months shy of a full decade..... that is like totally mind blowing when you really, really wrap your head around it... So I for one am really expecting the release product of SoW vol I to be bigger, better, and just plain more than anything I can find anywhere right now.. or for the next few years..

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V15GQrXwUbA At 2:53 & at 4:15 you can clearly see smoke or vapour trails from aircraft ammunition..

[alexmdv]

One sample of true 3d sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbOmya3X4kw&feature=player_embedded

[Robert]

I didn't use head phones. Now my dog wants his Liva-Snaps dog treats.


edit: BTW Alex, nice clip. I do like the surround sound the clip displays. I should have added that originally.

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

thankyou oleg for the updates, they are always very welcome , your teams work is looking absoloutly fantastic and i cant wait for this beut to hit the shelves!

[Gourmand]

Oleg, please look at the video bellow, and notice that the paint of the aircraft /He-111/ is reflecting the surrounding environment significantly. Probably this is modern paint, and that is why it is reflecting the light. But I think that fresh 1940's paint should be reflecting too the picture of the surrounding environment. In SoW there is no such reflection, except on the picture of the full polished metal Spitfire screenshot, given to us by you long time ago.

So, here it is He-111:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFcszAzfIvg&feature=player_embedded

The paint is reflecting the image of the surrounding environment. Also please listen the sounds of the video.

There should no be dust in to the air taken up by the propeller wash, if there is rain, or it was raining not long time ago. Please fix this in SoW. Thanks.

~Cheers!


We model the reflections, but we also model the matt paint of the war beginning.

About sound... what I should listen? The poor compressed camcoder recording on the internal mic?

Thanks for the answer Oleg!
Good news about paint reflections!
About sounds I meant the engine sound and propeller sound. Sorry for miss-understanding. Have a nice weekend!

~Sheers!

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/x02.jpg
http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/x03.jpg

[Skoshi Tiger]

One sample of true 3d sound:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbOmya3X4kw&feature=player_embedded

That's quite cool with headphones on! (And mine are only cheapies!)

After listening to that I went back to the Olegs SOW video and rewatch it! I was blown away with the difference. It is really immersive with headphones on. You really get the feeling that the MG's are on either side of you. Completely different to listening to it on speakers!

This is about the most important update we've had!!!

I guess I'll have to budget for a decent set of headphones!


Cheers!

[BG-09]

I think, Oleg tries to say, that suggesting that video (recorded with cheapish digital camera and compressed with Fourier algorithm) as reference for the sound is approximately the same, as using it for, say, color reference. :grin:

Agree...

[SlipBall]

For me the fact that this 9 year old sim can still give you more .. with a hardware upgrade... 9 years after it's release... speaks for itself... 9 years later.... We are talking months shy of a full decade..... that is like totally mind blowing when you really, really wrap your head around it... So I for one am really expecting the release product of SoW vol I to be bigger, better, and just plain more than anything I can find anywhere right now.. or for the next few years..



That's right...there is none other that can compare right now, or for the foreseeable future. 1C does an excellent job all and all, so good in fact, that it leaves me wanting more. I want more, because I know they would do it right.

Oleg...I like this weeks up date, thanks!:grin:

[Osprey]

But I don't want to repeat each time what other people post every update more than 20 times.

I don't think it's necessary to repeat that...

the planes are gorgeous
the water is excellent
the cockpits are beautiful
the terrain is getting better each time
...

I think nobody doesn't agree with that and Oleg knows that and it's already been said so often.
Maybe I should do it like most of you.
Just put a smiley behind each sentence even if it's not hyperpositive and noone cares about it. :grin:

They aren't questions. Oleg doesn't have to reply to that. Besides, you often wrap your irrelevant question with some sort of veiled insult about how he's not managed to optimise the hardware or that some old game is way better already. Because you were asking about the windows at night and the grass we didn't get any answer on what is important, like wing vortex modelling.


Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox
5th - Simply some details of important places in London (such several objects will be impossible to destroy that to have no problems with the laws in some countries).

Selhurst Park in south London ;)
http://www.123football.com/stadiums/england/selhurst-park/selhurst-park2.jpg
http://www.cpfc.co.uk/javaImages/66/e8/0,,10323~2812006,00.jpg


In fact, I just heard today the Bristish gov. caused some trouble to a gamemaker(was it arma?) because you could pick the side of the taliban.
No sh*t, they had to remove it, and now you can pick the "opposing force" instead.

Cute, isn't it?

Get BF2 and download the free Project Reality - that has insurgent and taliban factions in it. It's a lot better than BF2 but I suspect not as good as Arma 2.

That is funy! what kind of weapon that spitfire uses?
Laser Gun?.... Is it Star War....

It's a Hurricane. Do us a favour and don't post again.

[Romanator21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V15GQrXwUbA At 2:53 & at 4:15 you can clearly see smoke or vapour trails from aircraft ammunition..

Cannon rounds.

[Foo'bar]

That is funy! what kind of weapon that spitfire uses?
Laser Gun?.... Is it Star War....

It is exact like these kind of tracers look in reality. And it is a Hurricane btw. I'm shure one day you will learn...

[Freycinet]

@ Hecke:

In one of your postings you asked Oleg "What is binaural sound?". Now that is a posting which just immediately disqualifies you as somebody I'd want to listen to any time in the future, which is why you ended up on my ignore list.

1. You should spend the two minutes it takes on Google to find out for yourself.

2. You shouldn't bother Oleg about it, because he has more important stuff to do than help you because you're too lazy to Google something.

You just wasted everybody's time (including mine writing this posting). At least I won't be bothered by you anymore, but please try not to waste Oleg's time again.

[Freycinet]

GIAP Toonz, you should match up two outlying features on the map when you try to do an overlay, not match up a single feature. Erros in the match-up of a single feature will magnify as you move away from it.

[fireflyerz]

It is exact like these kind of tracers look in reality. And it is a Hurricane btw. I'm shure one day you will learn...

Errrr, Codswallop Foobar, they do look like star wars lazers, and may only represent the real thing when caught on film at night , I assume by Olegs standards these are only placeholders and not the final product...I hope:rolleyes:

[LukeFF]

Errrr, Codswallop Foobar, they do look like star wars lazers, and may only represent the real thing when caught on film at night , I assume by Olegs standards these are only placeholders and not the final product...I hope:rolleyes:

How often have you seen tracer fire firsthand?

[kedrednael]

I think the tracers look verry realistic, in all non shaky video's you can see the tracers as long straight lines.
some video's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCsv30xysHA&feature=related

(I hope SOW won't have such small tracer hits of course!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKVH-WyTjBM&feature=related
Looks like star wars, because the makers thought these 'lasers' would look cool, but they are tracers.
I think those tracers look a lot bigger than the gun barrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l1gmT1FWS4&feature=related
A bit shaky... But the tracers apear straigt, not spiraling.
Here you can see a lot of the tracers are richoretting.
The tracers in the last video are a little bit different than 'normal' tracer rounds, they don't light up immidiately after leaving the barrel.

Of course the shutter speed and the quality from the camera makes the tracers look a bit different (longer, bigger etc) So maybe that's not excactly how they look in real life.
I haven't seen any smoke comming from the tracers.

[Skoshi Tiger]

We have a problem with beta binaural sound recording in AVI (crash....).


Hi Oleg,

To tell you the truth before today I've never heard of binaural sound, but now I've heard a few samples using headphones, but now I'm really excited about the technology.

If you manage to iron out the bugs in your beta binaural sound recording, is it your intention to link the sound sources with pilot head tracking (either using track IR or keys/mouse move pilots head)?

All the best and thankyou for all the effort you and your team are putting into this simulation.


Cheers!

[airmalik]

Sir, i realy admire your way of keeping us at bay, while stil show us stuff......dude you are awsome :) realy meen it :)


+1! And I'm glad it's this way. As much as I like the updates, I still want the release to still have surprises which haven't been shown before.

BTW terrain colours are looking great both during day and night. Also the damage modeling (collapsed landing gear) is phenomenal! I spent a lot of time in IL2 creating spectacular crash landings. Looks like SoW will keep me busy for a long time doing that :)

[Buzpilot]

.303 Tracer, made in 1943, probably used in Hurricanes.
Burns about 3 sec, and not really any smoke at all.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4186723005948721325#

[Luftwaffepilot]

Hello,

first time here and i have to say this game looks so beautiful.
Hopefully it comes out this year :grin:

[Splitter]

modern tracers do not smoke because the bullet actually glows from heat and chemical reaction, not from burning a combustible material.

That's what I thought and, honestly, I had no idea it was different in the past until I got involved in IL-2. Good post.

Splitter

[Baron]

Regarding tracers and smoke.


Im no expert but i allways thought the "smoke" was more related to air tempetures, meaning the colder it is/higher up they are fired the more smoke is beeing seen. Smoke as in vapors caused by cold air meets hot shell.


Just guessing.

[t4trouble]

For people that keep saying i dont see dis or that,
the game is not finished, im sure once we have
the full game on our computers the first words out
of our mouths will be WOW

[Old_Canuck]

That's quite cool with headphones on! (And mine are only cheapies!)

After listening to that I went back to the Olegs SOW video and rewatch it! I was blown away with the difference. It is really immersive with headphones on. You really get the feeling that the MG's are on either side of you. Completely different to listening to it on speakers!

This is about the most important update we've had!!!

I guess I'll have to budget for a decent set of headphones!


Cheers!

INDEED! "match box 5 o'clock low." As a long time headset user, binaural sound is welcome news. Brilliant decision by Oleg and Team :grin:

[The Kraken]

Im no expert but i allways thought the "smoke" was more related to air tempetures, meaning the colder it is/higher up they are fired the more smoke is beeing seen. Smoke as in vapors caused by cold air meets hot shell.

I don't think that's a factor here. Temperature and air humidity come into play with water-vapor related effects like contrails or visible wing tip vortices. Smoke however are unburnt particles which usually dissipate quickly, regardless of the atmspheric environment.

[kirq]

I'm so buying this game!

[winny]

I don't think that's a factor here. Temperature and air humidity come into play with water-vapor related effects like contrails or visible wing tip vortices. Smoke however are unburnt particles which usually dissipate quickly, regardless of the atmspheric environment.

I don't think its vapour either..

You get smoke off some tracers but not all (even the same type). If you watch any gun camera footage you can usually see some smoke, also you can get defective tracer which burn unevenly causing the round to spiral and on top of this the air flow can disrupt the flight of the rounds. The SoW tracers are pretty good but maybe a little too pure(?) in flight.

[philip.ed]

I had always been under the impression that, dependent on altitude, the tracers would burn with more smoke where the air was colder, as the chemical evaporates from the heat and reacts with the cold air to produce smoke.
I'm not 100% sure on this though.

[kalimba]

For people that keep saying i dont see dis or that,
the game is not finished, im sure once we have
the full game on our computers the first words out
of our mouths will be WOW

Well said...And we have to remember something here...

The most picky , nitpicking and critisizing guy on this forum, according to Oleg's team is ............?

OLEG MADDOX!!! ;)

Salute !

[Sutts]

Very nice update Oleg. Thanks for taking the time to post the nice video with sound. The new sound is so immersive, you could really be there.

[furbs]

a couple more vids...
heres one showing a spitfire shooting up a he111, forward the vid to 3.00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nFHQEyC2WE

the smoke here looks like its just from 20mm cannon from a 109, dont think i see tracers or smoke from MGs though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SxOIHDILmc&feature=related

by the way not moaning about SOW tracers or lack of smoke, Oleg said they have it sorted, just thought people might want a look :)

[easytarget3]

About the tracers, dont forget, most of the info goes from footage of film cameras, very old ones, with many technicals limitations on very very shaky platforms, i mention this just for the spiral and curve observations.Also shatter speed and other settings.Anyway its amazing how well some of the footage turned out, considering the conditions.

[Sutts]

In terms of tracer smoke, there is no doubt in my mind that certain .303 tracer rounds did emit smoke trails. The following is quite a well known picture of the RAF attacking an He111 formation. I've seen it as a film before but could only find this still image today.

Look closely and you'll see multiple parallel smoke trails produced by a bank of 303s belonging to a Spitfire or Hurricane. You can see more trails on the He111 itself where the rounds of another plane are finding the target.

While I agree that things like spirals and zig-zags are most likely artifacts created by camera wobble etc., the camera cannot create a smoke trail if it wasn't there.

If Oleg chooses to model a type that didn't emit smoke then that's fine by me. This is just intended to counter the old argument that .303 tracers never smoked.

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Well based on a beer infused guess and some very bad and most likely incorrect mathematics I came up with this:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3794&stc=1&d=1288388207

Haven't thought of that, but I sure hope it's larger and to the East..I personal would like the Ansons to be able to fly patrols along the Dutch coast....and not forgetting the RAF Blenheims and possibly the ALA that made attacks in 1940 over Dutch soil trying to hold back the German forces..

Would there be a map for the Norway raids or just the BoB months...

[dduff442]

Most rounds fired from rifled barrels will follow a tightly-spiralling trajectory.

An imbalance in the round will cause a wobble, much like a spinning top -- the technical word is precession. This wobble will mean the spin axis is not parallel to the direction of travel. Just as spin on a football causes it to swerve in mid-air, the interaction between the wobble, the spin and the airflow over the round will also cause swerve, only in a spiral pattern as the spin axis of the round is itself always shifting.

While modelling all this ballistically is probably not worth the effort, the spiral smoke-trails left by tracer rounds are real and would add a nice touch.

dduff

[philip.ed]

Duff, I agree, but the spiral is so small it's hardly noticeable.

[Freycinet]

As if you know? Are you a former BoB pilot? Did you ever see .303 tracer bullets fired from a plane in real life?

Man, the experts we have in here!

[furbs]

did Oleg? ;)

[BadAim]

Ack! Not a bloody one of us was there! Some of us however have studied ballistics, either as amateur enthusiasts or as professionals or have practical experience in either of the two above categories. It seems that every one in the four groups that I've mentioned agree that Oleg (A man who falls under all four categories throughout his career) is pretty much spot on.

What the Hell is the argument?! If you don't know about a subject, just bloody well give the argument to the one who does like a damn adult and move on.

/rant off

[philip.ed]

As if you know? Are you a former BoB pilot? Did you ever see .303 tracer bullets fired from a plane in real life?

Man, the experts we have in here!

Actually, I was.

[kalimba]

As if you know? Are you a former BoB pilot? Did you ever see .303 tracer bullets fired from a plane in real life?

Man, the experts we have in here!

This is a complicated situation... For most of us, the only experience with "real" WW2 tracers we have is from WW2 guncams...So the woobling and some "f/x" we used to see, are artefacts from old camera...:rolleyes:

And this is what many of us were "expecting " to see in a realistic sim...:confused:

But Oleg is reproducing what real pilots "saw" 65 years ago...ANd for some of us , it looks awkard...Reality does that sometimes ....

So few of us find it hard to accept that it wont be like they hoped it would....;)

Salute

[Splitter]

Hypothesis:

The "tracer" part of the bullet burns inconsistently. One side burns in essence.

The bullet is spiraling like an American football.

So if only one side of the tracer is "burning", the effect would be the spiral smoke trails we see.

I dunno. Just a thought. I have never seen tracer smoke trails in real life and I am guessing it only occurs on some older ammo. I think the oldest tracer ammo I have fired was from Korea and it certainly was not in .303.

Splitter

[winny]

As if you know? Are you a former BoB pilot? Did you ever see .303 tracer bullets fired from a plane in real life?

Man, the experts we have in here!

We have video for that.. that's like saying you don't know what Mount Everest looks like unless you've been there.. ie. not true.

[major_setback]

Well based on a beer infused guess and some very bad and most likely incorrect mathematics I came up with this:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3794&stc=1&d=1288388207

It will be a shame if we don't get Portland.

Actually, I tried an educated sober guess (isn't anyone out there actually good at this sort of thing?). I found an extra 3-5 percent should be added to the western side of the map compared to your finding..Maybe Portland might just make it in! It's just a very basic guess though, done on the wrong sized monitor (monitor aspect ratio or whatever it's called).

Oleg: Will Portland be on the map?

[dduff442]

There's a full account of the ballistics of this effect here (http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/index.htm).

Here are some diagrams from the same source:

http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig17.htm
http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig18.htm
http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig19.htm
http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig21.htm
http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig26.htm
http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig27.htm

The actual helical motion of the round needn't be large (though it can be for some rounds); a yaw angle of 5-7deg combined with the ejection of the tracer gas from the round at speed will exaggerate the effect. Basically, the tracer gas is ejected at an ever-shifting angle to the bullets velocity vector.

The ingenuity some people will exhibit in ignoring the evidence right in front of their eyes is incredible. The spiral pattern in the trace is obvious and unmistakable in any number of guncam clips.

The zig-zag appearance of US tracers is easily explicable as being due to camera shake. Anyone who has any theories about how camera shake could induce a spiral pattern to the tracers while leaving other straight lines, um..., unspiralled is welcome to share them now.

I would argue that this illusion -- previously unknown to photography -- doesn't exist. It's a real, plain, genuine and obvious pheonomenon known to ballistics since the earliest days of rifled weapons and exaggerated by the tracer smoke.

dduff

[major_setback]

As if you know? Are you a former BoB pilot? Did you ever see .303 tracer bullets fired from a plane in real life?
Man, the experts we have in here!



Actually, I was.

Really?
Well, you are a real asset to us and the development team.
I must think of some questions to ask you.

[rollnloop]

No SONAR, me happy :cool:

[Abbeville-Boy]

Actually, I was.

i was thinking that written eye witness accounts would be best, because of early camera, film distortions. have you any documents to offer

[fireflyerz]

i was thinking that written eye witness accounts would be best, because of early camera, film distortions. have you any documents to offer

lol ed , has this guy been diggin in yor profile as well lookin for amo , they have no idea do they .....psssssssssssssssssssss :rolleyes:

[Skoshi Tiger]

lol ed , has this guy been diggin in yor profile as well lookin for amo , they have no idea do they .....psssssssssssssssssssss :rolleyes:

I personally have a lot to do with veterans from WWII. My Dad's one and I am an associate member of the 2/16th AIF Battalion Association.

I assume it is the same world wide as it is here, but in Australia it is considered extremely low and disrespectful to try to pass ones self off as a serviceman (either ex or currently serving) or falsify a service history.

Even when marching in place of an old or infirmed serviceman there is a strict etiquette involved in wearing the service medals. If you wear the medals on the left you are claiming them as your own as opposed to wearing them on the right which signifies that you are honouring the holder of the medals by standing in for them. (Different countries /cultures will have different forms of etiquitte regarding this.)

If Phillip is an ex-service man I cannot think of a reason why he would not be proud of his service history and there would be a lot of people here (myself included) who would hang off every word of his personal experiences. I can't think of one of the veterans I know that couldn't rattle off their service number, hey some of them even greet each other with it!

Maybe Phillip meant that he has 'flown' in BoB WOV or some other simulation - bad wording on his part.

Maybe it was a joke - if it was it was in bad taste, ignorant or disrespectful of the men who were involved in the battle.

Who knows? Considering that this was the first time it was mentioned after a long time on the board I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for some further details to backup a statement like that.

Well that was my two bob's worth!

Cheers!

[The Kraken]

The ingenuity some people will exhibit in ignoring the evidence right in front of their eyes is incredible. The spiral pattern in the trace is obvious and unmistakable in any number of guncam clips.

The zig-zag appearance of US tracers is easily explicable as being due to camera shake. Anyone who has any theories about how camera shake could induce a spiral pattern to the tracers while leaving other straight lines, um..., unspiralled is welcome to share them now.

I would argue that this illusion -- previously unknown to photography -- doesn't exist. It's a real, plain, genuine and obvious pheonomenon known to ballistics since the earliest days of rifled weapons and exaggerated by the tracer smoke.

I don't really see where anyone who argues against the spiral pattern in the smoke. Especially given that this effect is already in Il2 since the very first version. The question is rather if those tracers in the SoW video should be smoking or not.

[dduff442]

I don't really see where anyone who argues against the spiral pattern in the smoke. Especially given that this effect is already in Il2 since the very first version. The question is rather if those tracers in the SoW video should be smoking or not.

Fair enough.

My guess is that larger calibre ammunition would show the effect more clearly.

dduff

[katdogfizzow]

ooooh....ahhhhhh

[StalkerKHV88]

From Russian 1C site.. translated with prompt)))

The company "1S-SoftKlab" informs that the studio 1С:Maddox Games conducts computer game working out «Silt-2 the Attack plane: Fight for Britain».

Continuation of the well-known aviasimulator «Silt-2 the Attack plane» shines events of the largest air battle of the Second World War which has lasted from July, 9th till October, 30th, 1940. During this period in the sky thousand planes of the Royal Air Forces of Great Britain and эскадрилий the Third Reich and fascist Italy rose. Now each admirer of aviasimulators will have a possibility to become the hero of Fight for Britain and to break a course of great battle!

In game in the smallest details huge territories — from London to Normandy and from Southampton to Dankerka are recreated. Interactive training will allow beginners to master quickly management of warplane, and flexible options — to optimize game process depending on level of skill of the user. Besides the single campaign including various tasks — from storms and interceptions before missions on rescue of companions, the multiuser modes will enter into game — in one fight can take part to 128 pilots.

From November, 3 till November, 6th visitors of an exhibition passing in Moscow «IgroMir 2010» will receive unique possibility to test in a role of pilots of legendary planes of World War II and to participate in Fight for Britain. All interested persons can not only play throughout «Silt-2 the Attack plane» at stands "1S-SoftKlab", but also receive particulars about the project which presentations will pass 4, on November, 5th and 6 on scenes B4 and C1.

http://games.1c.ru/images/news/6015.jpg
http://games.1c.ru/images/news/6016.jpg

I dont remember, were this screenshots in any updates?

Russian logo of the game)

[C_G]

I'm quite sure those are both new pics. Nice find.
Also nice to finally see some screenies with anti-aliasing!
C_G

[tagTaken2]

Hope someone on the forum can go and get footage!

[Chivas]

Nice find....but we have seen those pics. Thanks for posting the info.

[Rodolphe]

...


Thanks Stalker !


IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain " :-P ( SoW : any more ? )



During three days (4, 5 and 6th November) "IGROMIR - 2010" has prepared a special entertainment program of competitions and quizzes with prizes. These will take place on two stages deployed at stands C1 and B4.

The exhibition will be visited by many distinguished guests from different countries, including the developers of the most popular and anticipated worldwide projects. Get the latest information about new games, hear the comments of the authors and ask them questions - all this can be done during the official presentations, which will also be on the stands C1 and B4.

Expect exclusive screenings of Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad, Shogun 2: Total War, Il-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain", The Witcher 2: Killer of Kings "," Full drive 3 , Inversion, FEAR 3.
Billboards with the schedule of presentations will be posted in the sections "1C-SoftClub.
General technical partner and company are Meijin, LG, NVIDIA, Defender, A4Tech, Saitek, Gametrix.

But that's not all !

Details of entertainment, information on contests, promotions and surprises - will be published in our future news.

Watch for announcements at "1C-SoftClub !



http://www.igromir-expo.ru/news1/2010/248


Another translation ;)

29.10.2010 | «Il-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain": an order to take off!

Company "1C-SoftClub reports that the studio 1C: Maddox Games is developing a computer game" IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain ".

Continuation of the famous flight simulator "IL-2 Sturmovik" covers events of the largest air battles of World War II, which took place between July 9 and October 30, 1940.
During this period, the sky rose thousand aircraft of the Royal Air Force and squadrons of the Third Reich and Fascist Italy. Now every fan of flight simulators will be able to become a hero of the Battle of Britain, and change the course of a great battle !

The game has been recreated in great detail on a huge map - from London to Normandy, Southampton to Dunkerque. Online training allows beginners to quickly master the management of combat aircraft, with flexible settings to optimize the gameplay, depending on user skill level.
In addition the single-player campaign includes a variety of tasks - from assaults and interception missions to rescue comrades.
The game will also include multiplayer modes - up to 128 pilots can take part in a battle .

From 3 to 6 November, visitors of the exhibition "IGROMIR - 2010"in Moscow will have a unique opportunity to become a pilot of the legendary aircraft and take part in the Battle of Britain. Everyone will be able to play the sequel on the stands " IL-2 1C-SoftClub, but also learn more about the project. Presentations will take place on 4, 5 and 6th November at the stands C1 and B4.

Do not miss out!


http://games.1c.ru/

...

[LukeFF]

Actually, I was.

Name, unit/squadron(s)?

Call me a skeptic if you will, but I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

[albx]

...


Thanks Stalker !


IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain " :-P ( SoW : any more ? )





http://www.igromir-expo.ru/news1/2010/248


Another translation ;)




http://games.1c.ru/

...

I have been there some years ago... when i met my wife :)

[Luftwaffepilot]

Some people (russians) willing to go there and make some videos? :)
I would even pay for that stuff :cool:

Actually I think there will be journalists from game sites who will hopefully show us some material.
Youtube will hopefully be filled up with footage then.

Il-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain - This makes me wonder.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Interesting, so in a week people will see SoW live in that event. Hopefully impressions reach this forum as well :) I am sure Oleg will have a treat up his sleeve too ;)

[Foo'bar]

from assaults and interception missions to rescue comrades.

Hear hear. Rescue comrades :)

[SlipBall]

S!

Interesting, so in a week people will see SoW live in that event. Hopefully impressions reach this forum as well :) I am sure Oleg will have a treat up his sleeve too ;)


Yea, would be nice to hear about their first impression's:grin:

[Luftwaffepilot]

What if nVidia show how their 3D Vision works with SoW. That would be awesome.

[Stiboo]

Yes...

so new name?!.... IL2:BoB it makes sense to keep the IL2 brand name as it's now so famous.

and release date Feb 2011 according to PLAY ! ;)

and another 2 great screenshots thankyou, looking forward to loads of in-game videos from the games world press next week.

Is there anything else we really need to know - apart from how much is a flight to Moscow!!

[Freycinet]

As if you know? Are you a former BoB pilot? Did you ever see .303 tracer bullets fired from a plane in real life?

Man, the experts we have in here!


Actually, I was.


OK, interesting.... I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences in the battle!

Salute to you Sir!

[Stranzki]

Please note that very often games have different names in different countries / continents. As an example C&C Red Alert was selled as C&C 2 in Germany.
Maybe, and that's my assumption, BoB is not that popular in Russia and therefore 1C decided to keep the IL2 in the name. That could attract more buyers than the new brand SoW.

[Luftwaffepilot]

Hey Oleg,

how does water behave in SoW?
Does it flow in rivers?

What happens if you bomb a hole directly to the edge of a river. Does the water expand in it?



I hope you can advertise many people at the event to buy your sim.

[mark@1C]

Hi,BOSS Oleg,

still some thoughts about those details and minutiaes,

last time, I suggested that the instruction tips bubble which in your words is "help pop up line" could have some improvements in decorating, for example, when in a german plane, it can use a Gothic font, some Gothic patterns, and with an eagle symbol by it.

this time, it's about the mouse cursor.
Why not give it a set of animated appearances for different operation, for example,
an index finger switch off animation for a click indicating,
a rotate gesture animation for a gun sight adjustment indicating, etc,

at least, a http://www.wpclipart.com/signs_symbol/cursors/hand_pointers/cursor_hand_outline_up.png is better than a simple arrow http://www.bltt.org/assets/images/whitearrow.gif, I think.

and to expand some further, to integrate this feature into the whole in-cockpit GUI system, for example,

when in a tuition mode, it can offer a full cockpit instruction with a "?" question mark cursor(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/XatBackgroundsRgre1/Icons/PH-Mod.pngfor "why", http://warc.calpoly.edu/images/diagrams/alert-icon_matrix/lrg_icons/lg_triangle_yellow_questionmark.gif for CAUTION!, etc). You move it on a certain equipment, it will show some detailed descriptions just as what you have already done, to give those novices like me a more humanizing friendly feeling.

I think there are many subtle improvements you can do with the cursor and the bubble.

although these aspects are simple and subtle, it can be helpful to enhance the immersive gameplay.
Actually, I incline to believe that you have already thought about it, but just haven't got enough time to do it.

And, dear BOSS, IMHO I have to say that, to some extend, you do not know(I incline to use "CARE ABOUT") the art of packaging. Your FlightSim perhaps is the best in specialization, but sometimes it looks too harsh, a typical classical russian style, efficient but impersonal, that will drive away many craving novices, as far as I know, this has been happening in IL2 series.

or I incline to believe that you specially leave these "unimportant" minutiaes to your long term add-ons, Mods communities, and so on?

Boss, it gives me an impression that the word "humanizing" in your dictionary is for developers and veterans, not for novices.
And "garish" means guilty in such a specialized sim, and you do not need to use childish tricks such as making some GUI decoration to appeal players, because they are all hardcore players, they won't care about these minutiaes as well.
It seems that debugging is a more important work in your schedule, and dress up we can ignore.

If so, I would say I generally agree with you. However, you are making a game, sometimes it looks more like a industrial and engineering software(although it is a very positive and exclusive feature). By the way, the main UI you had posted a few weeks ago have got the some problem, clear enough but not attractive. Considering it's a WIP, I don't know if I could say the main UI needs some aesthetic improvments.

I'm not criticizing, just a little complaining, and
it's not my hope that you will remove some hardcore raw stuff, reduce the specialization,
I just hope that, to eat those hardcore raw stuff can be easy and pleasing.

For a novice, I think it's very important to give him an impression that you are in a very interesting machine rather than you are now in a iron coffin...

so give them some sweets please, and give them a feeling that they have got strong support.(As we all know, the only strong support we can get nowadays, comes from Online-communities, not the game itself)

Sometimes, some people need to add some sugar or milk in their black coffee.


hoho~~~

A veteran can learn and feel the potential of your Sim, but a novice can only SEE the potential at the very beginning

(or perhaps you can add these garish subtle features into a special novice expansion pack which is specially made for novice and has got a full detailed aviation course just like SEGA'S aero dancing/aero elite series, I would be very happy to buy one:))

[kedrednael]

Hey Oleg,

how does water behave in SoW?
Does it flow in rivers?

What happens if you bomb a hole directly to the edge of a river. Does the water expand in it?



I hope you can advertise many people at the event to buy your sim.

I think, that there will be water in craters that are on the edges of rivers. Because the rivers are not like the rivers in il2, where water was just placed on the land, but the rivers really go down,
I hope that makes sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GtsNqaE1yU look at 4:15

[Luftwaffepilot]

I think, that there will be water in craters that are on the edges of rivers. Because the rivers are not like the rivers in il2, where water was just placed on the land, but the rivers really go down,
I hope that makes sense.



I hope you are right. Would be a nice amusement to change the rivers course and to flood London. :)

[kedrednael]

I hope you are right. Would be a nice amusement to change the rivers course and to flood London. :)

I think that's inpossible, because there is no land lower than the river. ( I think)

[Luftwaffepilot]

I think that's inpossible, because there is no land lower than the river. ( I think)

Yes, but i was referring to the bomb craters, that will hopefully have a certain depth.
I think too that's impossible because that would be too much processing power needed.

[Sutts]

In terms of tracer smoke, there is no doubt in my mind that certain .303 tracer rounds did emit smoke trails. The following is quite a well known picture of the RAF attacking an He111 formation. I've seen it as a film before but could only find this still image today.

Look closely and you'll see multiple parallel smoke trails produced by a bank of 303s belonging to a Spitfire or Hurricane. You can see more trails on the He111 itself where the rounds of another plane are finding the target.

While I agree that things like spirals and zig-zags are most likely artifacts created by camera wobble etc., the camera cannot create a smoke trail if it wasn't there.

If Oleg chooses to model a type that didn't emit smoke then that's fine by me. This is just intended to counter the old argument that .303 tracers never smoked.

I've been searching but I still can't find the film behind this still shot. I've definitely seen it on a number of occasions. Can anyone help please?

[Osprey]

If Oleg chooses to model a type that didn't emit smoke then that's fine by me. This is just intended to counter the old argument that .303 tracers never smoked.

Firstly, I think that Oleg was saying that they have many types of round modelled but not yet applied, so what we are seeing is not the real thing.

Secondly, I would be disappointed if smoke wasn't shown because it's pretty clear that smoke does occur whether it be from the round itself or the atmosphere. One of the biggest difficulties I have found in IL2 is to know where you are firing with .50cal and lower, the addition of the Holy Grail and Potenz effect pack was possibly the best mod ever produced imho and if you have ever looked at the comparison videos on you tube (I posted one in a previous thread before) you will see the similarities.
Other effects I would like to see are tracer rounds bouncing off the sea, land and targets at various angles - this is very clear in a lot of the USAAF ground attack footage from P-47s

[=XIII=Shea]

Looks fantastic,thanks oleg

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kedrednael
I think that's inpossible, because there is no land lower than the river. ( I think)

Yes, but i was referring to the bomb craters, that will hopefully have a certain depth.
I think too that's impossible because that would be too much processing power needed.

But could that be possible at all? Isn't a river or sea hardcoded in the map? Othwise it could be possible to e.g. move on to the bombing of Walcheren 1943-1944. True there are no dykes to demolish.. or am i getting to far ith thoughts?

[Osprey]

Maybe it was a joke - if it was it was in bad taste, ignorant or disrespectful of the men who were involved in the battle.




Don't be such a drama queen ST, people get falsely offended so easily these days and all it does is make life unbearable. I assume you've never watched an episode of Dad's Army?

[Osprey]

Hi,BOSS Oleg,

still some thoughts about those details and minutiaes,

<snip>

If you are really on the team, are you trying to get fired?

If you haven't got the message across internally or via enhancement requests in your own incident management process then it ain't happening. I work in software development and in our team blabbing publically would be considered gross misconduct whatever the intention. But I don't know about Russian employment law or working culture. Good luck anyway.

I've really done some moaning today, sorry everyone :o

[Foo'bar]

If you are really on the team, are you trying to get fired?

He isn't.

[SlipBall]

Don't be such a drama queen ST, people get falsely offended so easily these days and all it does is make life unbearable. I assume you've never watched an episode of Dad's Army?


I gotta disagree...it would be wrong and offensive to boast a fictional military service. I'm not saying Philip did, just that it would be wrong, and disrespectful if one was to do that, for example Dick Blumenthal.:grin:

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Foo'bar,

I'm impressed with your railway works and it fits in the new release. I saw the screens with the huffin' and puffin' of the coalers...what kind of damage can they get? Altough it would be a little waste of the nice locs..the 322Sqn and other sqn's shot up the locs and the boilers blew up with a huge cloud....is that possible? If there's a better topic to discuss..please point it out and this will be removed to keep off the pollution of the update topic.

[Desgobbi]

Cool sound! :) Plane didn't shake when using weapon?

Bullet has mass and it must affect to a plane when it has been shot. So called "law of momentum conservation".
If a plane starts to shoot, then the plane must shake, then the bullet of the next should follow other trajectory.

I can not find any shake in the video and the trajectories of bullets are all the same.

Of course I don't mind that.

[Foo'bar]

Foo'bar,

I'm impressed with you railway works and it fits in the new release. I saw the screens with the huffin' and puffin' of the coalers...what kind of damage can they get? Altough it would be a little waste of the nice locs..the 322Sqn and other sqn's shot up the locs and the boilers blew up with a huge cloud....is that possible? If there's a better opic to discuss..please point it out and this will be removed to keep off the pollution of the update topic.

Your're right, in case a bullet can penetrate a steam loco boiler hull (about 2 cm of steel tin, wich is in fact armour) wich can have about 16 bar of pressure (for german locos for instance) then it should show a very huge reaction with smoke and steam.

Any questions about railway damage only Oleg can answer. Sorry I can't tell more.

And it's no waste of nice locos. Just press refly and all is fine again ;)

[Insuber]

Bullet has mass and it must affect to a plan when it has been shot. So called "law of momentum conservation".
If a plan start to shoot, then the plan must shake, then the bullet of the next should follow other trajectory.

I can not find any shake in the video and the trajectories of bullets are all the same.

Of course I don't mind that.

The Hurricane was known to be a very stable fire platform. Moreover the momentum of a 4000 kg plane at 400 km/h is 3 orders of magnitude bigger than that of eight 10g bullet at 2500 km/h ... if you see what I mean.

[JAMF]

Yes, but i was referring to the bomb craters, that will hopefully have a certain depth.
I think too that's impossible because that would be too much processing power needed.

There are other ways to achieve craters. A basic double pyramid with 6 sides only costs 16 triangles. Inverted, that looks like a hole. Graphic cards of today have a trick called tessellation. If the crater object was marked as an object that would receive tessellation, the card would increase that 16 triangles to 48, fo example. The crater now looks much smoother and the circular hole will have 12 sides.

Now add another trick, normal mapping (Dot3 bump mapping (http://www.game-artist.net/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=16)). Simplified, it's a texture, which tells the card to add extra height/thickness to a point on a model. Say white is very high/thick and black is nothing/zero. Lay a black&white noise texture over the crater and you get the inside surface to look like it's just exploded and it's covered with clumps of dirt and sand.

These effects should have little effect on the frame rate, as they can be distance-indexed, so they start to show only when you get closer. Similar to the LoD models aircraft have.

Bump mapping is an optical illusion, normal mapping really adds surface detail.

Left is bump-, right is normal-mapped. Notice the visual edge of the spheres:
http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Bump_map_vs_isosurface2.png/400px-Bump_map_vs_isosurface2.png

[Splitter]

Bullet has mass and it must affect to a plan when it has been shot. So called "law of momentum conservation".
If a plan start to shoot, then the plan must shake, then the bullet of the next should follow other trajectory.

I can not find any shake in the video and the trajectories of bullets are all the same.

Of course I don't mind that.

I think Oleg said early on in the thread that the shake was simply turned off for the video.

Splitter

[Desgobbi]

What I really love is the real-time lighting and shadows in the cockpit. It's looks so natural and correct that I guess it would be easy to take for granted or, to the uninitiated, to overlook but it really adds tons to the immersion in my opinion. Really looking forward to it!

Absolutely agree.
But I couldn't see the light reflection on a instrument moves as a plane moves. I hope to check this out.

And naturally, the trajectories of bullets should not be the same like those in the video because of the shake of a plan when it fires. I hope to check this too.

[Insuber]

.303 Tracer, made in 1943, probably used in Hurricanes.
Burns about 3 sec, and not really any smoke at all.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4186723005948721325#

I guess it is the .303" B. Mk IV incendiary tracer, which was ignited on firing and burned in flight.

[Desgobbi]

I think Oleg said early on in the thread that the shake was simply turned off for the video.

Splitter

I've checked that Oleg mentioned on the shake after I posted.

[Osprey]

I gotta disagree...it would be wrong and offensive to boast a fictional military service. I'm not saying Philip did, just that it would be wrong, and disrespectful if one was to do that, for example Dick Blumenthal.:grin:

Sure, of course, but as we agree he didn't and it was obvious he was being sarcastic.

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Your're right, in case a bullet can penetrate a steam loco boiler hull (about 2 cm of steel tin, wich is in fact armour) wich can have about 16 bar of pressure (for german locos for instance) then it should show a very huge reaction with smoke and steam.

Any questions about railway damage only Oleg can answer. Sorry I can't tell more.

And it's no waste of nice locos. Just press refly and all is fine again ;)

Good to know it's back for another round....... or 20.. ;)

Well, if possible would men be so kind to provide a shot with a blowing boiler? or is it preserved for the later war years?

[Desgobbi]

The Hurricane was known to be a very stable fire platform. Moreover the momentum of a 4000 kg plane at 400 km/h is 3 orders of magnitude bigger than that of eight 10g bullet at 2500 km/h ... if you see what I mean.

Hurricane momentum= 3000Kg*300KM/h
Hispano Bullet momentum = (0.13Kg~0.168Kg)* (3000Km/h, about 2800ft/s)

ratio of mumentum = 1 : 2300

Still can make enough shake.... Even a tiny vibrator in my iPhone can make me shake.

Of course, Oleg just played at easy mode in the video and there is no shake..

[Tree_UK]

Im sure Philip was only having a laugh, no harm done or disrespect shown IMO. :grin:

[Xilon_x]

BULLET balistic video.SLOW MOTION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg&feature=fvw
MEPHIS BELLE gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JET2KAWSmGg&feature=related

[Insuber]

Hurricane momentum= 3000Kg*300KM/h
Hispano Bullet momentum = (0.13Kg~0.168Kg)* (3000Km/h, about 2800ft/s)

ratio of mumentum = 1 : 2300

Still can make enough shake.... Even a tiny vibrator in my iPhone can make me shake.

Of course, Oleg just played at easy mode in the video and there is no shake..

1:2300 = 3 orders of magnitude ;-)

BTW if my memory is good enough, during the BoB the Hurricanes didn't have Hispanos, but 8 Brownings .303, and the muzzle speed of the 11 g bullet was some 2500 km/h, and the weight of the Hurricane was 3950 kg, and when attacking bombers I'd fly a little faster than 300 km/h ... details of course my friend :D

[Jaws2002]

Check this video. Belgian FN made .50cal gunpods.

http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/video/video.asp

Click on the "PODS" video. Watch specially the first part where the pods are used on fixed wing aircraft.
We know SOW video was recorded on easy setings. If is anything like Il-2 easy setings, this means without much vibration and most likely little to no bulet drop. I'd say SOW video looks mighty close. :grin:

[louisv]

So kinetic energy of the bullet: one half of m (mass) times v (speed) squared...

v squared is 3000 km/h squared and that is 9,000,000 and actually all this should be calculated in meters and seconds...

Which is relevant momemtum or kinetic energy ? :confused:

[Insuber]

So kinetic energy of the bullet: one half of m (mass) times v (speed) squared...

v squared is 3000 km/h squared and that is 9,000,000 and actually all this should be calculated in meters and seconds...

Which is relevant momemtum or kinetic energy ? :confused:

Momentum is simply velocity x mass :D ... and the ratio is adimensional ... that's my last post on the subject, I don't want to attract here the UBI forum's masters of physics ... :)

[kendo65]

Firstly, I think that Oleg was saying that they have many types of round modelled but not yet applied, so what we are seeing is not the real thing.

Secondly, I would be disappointed if smoke wasn't shown because it's pretty clear that smoke does occur whether it be from the round itself or the atmosphere. One of the biggest difficulties I have found in IL2 is to know where you are firing with .50cal and lower, the addition of the Holy Grail and Potenz effect pack was possibly the best mod ever produced imho and if you have ever looked at the comparison videos on you tube (I posted one in a previous thread before) you will see the similarities.
Other effects I would like to see are tracer rounds bouncing off the sea, land and targets at various angles - this is very clear in a lot of the USAAF ground attack footage from P-47s

Luthier posted a request several months back for ballistics information about how rounds ricocheted off water!! They apparently already had the land ricochets sorted, but were looking for accurate info to programme water ricochets.

Oleg has said this regarding the tracers:

Originally Posted by philip.ed
Very nice video Oleg!

But with the RAF tracer, in gun-cam films I've seen, the tracer has had smoke-trails which are missing from SoW. Will these be added? I think it really adds to the immersion.

We have many different various... Just to be sure the traces modeling is according war time document's descrition of the bullets(with its construction, type of traces, color lighting etc). Orignal UK doc. Same for Germans


Originally Posted by IceFire
Oleg I have one question: I've noticed that the British .303 tracers we've seen so far in video and elsewhere are white. Was this really the case? Just development? I thought most of the British/American guns fired red tracers... This was the case in IL-2 but also what I had previous read.

They are different depending of the type of the bullets with tracers and the year of use.

Think we can take from this that there will be various types modelled, including presumably, those with smoke trails.

Also, some of the film people have provided showing various tracers are not very useful - one had so much editing that it was completely useless as a reference - Spits turned into Hurricanes, presence of FW190s indicated film shot later than 1940, clips of what I think were Hurri 2C's (?), etc.

[Insuber]

Luthier posted a request several months back for ballistics information about how rounds ricocheted off water!! They apparently already had the land ricochets sorted, but were looking for accurate info to programme water ricochets.


Rise of Flight showed the new 1.016 engine with ricochets of tracers and rockets ... very nice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITcWgoxZDrQ

Cheers,
Insuber

[philip.ed]

Just a bit of sarcasm.

really, the subliminal point is the difference it makes from an eye-witness perspective to either recorded 'fact' or photos/videos.
As much as eye-witness accounts are great, on the surface they aren't wholly credible. I mean, a pilot could exaggerate to great lengths about events, and certainly a pilot never sat in the cockpit and said 'right, I need to remember what these tracers look like just for future reference'.
Having said that, I'm sure they would remember, and if you read any account on the battle, the pilots may explain the tracers with detail. I wish I could remember the pilot, but I have a distinct memory of ann account/book I read where the pilot went into detail about the de-wilde ammunition and how the tracers look. I think I can recall him mention the smoke-trails from the tracer, but I can't give a quote as I can't remember who the chap was.

As for photos and videos, well the old argument that they don't record what the eye sees holds a lot of water. Take anything like that with a pinch of salt really.

And fact? Well, who are we to judge? Until someone does a full test on the different types of ammunition and tracer, we won't know for certain. But certainly Air-Ministry AP's are helpful and so are pilot accounts, and lastly photos and videos.

But no, I did not fight in the war but then I would never attempt to justifiy that I did. :D and me saying 'I was' is not me trying to lead you on.

However, Tim Elkington, a famous BoB Hurricane pilot, posts (infrequently) at the a2a forums in the BoB2 section, and some of his posts really are illuminating. I'm sure if any one here who has an account there, or wishes to make one, posed the question regarding tracers (or anything similar) Tim may be able to offer a nice explanation. He does some RAF events as well, and i have always wanted to try to go to one to have a chat with him.

[Jaws2002]

Originally Posted by Tempered
modern tracers do not smoke because the bullet actually glows from heat and chemical reaction, not from burning a combustible material.

What? Are you just making this stuf up? :confused:


A tracer projectile is constructed with a hollow base filled with a pyrotechnic flare material, often made of phosphorus or magnesium or other bright burning chemicals. In US and NATO standard ammunition, this is usually a mixture of strontium compounds (nitrate, peroxide,...) and a metal fuel such as magnesium. This yields a bright red light. Russian and Chinese tracer ammunition generates red or green light using barium salts. It is not true that they use only green tracers even if identified by green bullet tips. Some modern designs use compositions that produce little to no visible light and radiate mainly in infrared, being visible only on night vision equipment.




NATO 5.56mm tracer construction:


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/5.56mm/556_ammo2.gif

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/5.56mm/556mm_M856_tracer.gif



NATO 7.62mm tracer:


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/7.62mm/762mm_tracer.gif
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/7.62mm/762mm_M62.gif

Old US .30 cal (.30-06) tracer:


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/30-06/30_M1_tracer.gif




50 BMG tracer:

http://www.ammoman.com/spotter_tracer_files/spotter.gif


Russian 7.62x54R tracers:


http://www.gunpics.net/articles/762x54_4.jpghttp://www.gunpics.net/articles/762x54_3.jpg

25mm AP sabot tracer:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/M919diag.gif


As you can see they all have a pocket for pyrotechnic flare powder. That flare is what you see in flight.

[Freycinet]

Just a bit of sarcasm.

really, the subliminal point is the difference it makes from an eye-witness perspective to either recorded 'fact' or photos/videos.
As much as eye-witness accounts are great, on the surface they aren't wholly credible. I mean, a pilot could exaggerate to great lengths about events, and certainly a pilot never sat in the cockpit and said 'right, I need to remember what these tracers look like just for future reference'.
Having said that, I'm sure they would remember, and if you read any account on the battle, the pilots may explain the tracers with detail. I wish I could remember the pilot, but I have a distinct memory of ann account/book I read where the pilot went into detail about the de-wilde ammunition and how the tracers look. I think I can recall him mention the smoke-trails from the tracer, but I can't give a quote as I can't remember who the chap was.

As for photos and videos, well the old argument that they don't record what the eye sees holds a lot of water. Take anything like that with a pinch of salt really.

And fact? Well, who are we to judge? Until someone does a full test on the different types of ammunition and tracer, we won't know for certain. But certainly Air-Ministry AP's are helpful and so are pilot accounts, and lastly photos and videos.

But no, I did not fight in the war but then I would never attempt to justifiy that I did. :D and me saying 'I was' is not me trying to lead you on.

However, Tim Elkington, a famous BoB Hurricane pilot, posts (infrequently) at the a2a forums in the BoB2 section, and some of his posts really are illuminating. I'm sure if any one here who has an account there, or wishes to make one, posed the question regarding tracers (or anything similar) Tim may be able to offer a nice explanation. He does some RAF events as well, and i have always wanted to try to go to one to have a chat with him.

All your talking cannot hide the fact that you tried to pretend you fought in uniform. Where I come from that is deeply offensive. Some things cannot be relativized, no matter how much you try.

Yes, I know Tim Elkington from the forums. But just because I read his postings I don't confuse myself with him. I wonder what he'd think about a chat with someone who tries to pass himself off as a veteran.

[Splitter]

I understand your point if someone was really trying to pass themselves off as having served but I honestly saw the original posting as a joke. A sarcastic "nahnah nah nahnah" if you will ;).

Splitter

[philip.ed]

Yes, thanks Splitter, that was all the post was meant to be :(
Sorry if I offended anyone. I never tried to pass myself off as anyone though; I didn't say I was so and so...
I do quite a good Douglas Bader impression though.....

[kendo65]

All your talking cannot hide the fact that you tried to pretend you fought in uniform. Where I come from that is deeply offensive. Some things cannot be relativized, no matter how much you try.

Yes, I know Tim Elkington from the forums. But just because I read his postings I don't confuse myself with him. I wonder what he'd think about a chat with someone who tries to pass himself off as a veteran.

Sorry, but I really think you are over-reacting. Philip's comment was obviously sarcastic, tongue in cheek - maybe ill-advised, but to build it into some calculated insult to real wartime veterans is ridiculous.

[ElAurens]

Thanks for the useful info Jaws.

The FN video taken from the fixed wing aircraft cockpit really shows best how tracers should, and will, look in the sim, with correct colors of course.

I have seen 30.06 tracers fired on a range from a bolt action rifle (US Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917. Same as the British P14 Enfield only in .30-06 instead of .303) and even standing behind the shooter who was shooting from a bench rest there was no visible "spiral" pattern of the tracer, and no smoke either. This was with WW2 era tracer ammo.

[philip.ed]

I would never dream of saying anything against the brave men/women that served our country in those times.

But my comment was clearly uncalled for. I do have quite a dry, sarcastic humour. I think if I had said that to a mate, or anyone, the expression on my face or the way I said it would have shown it was just a saracastic joke. But on the internet it's very hard to get this accross, the same way it's hard for me to say how sorry I am if I've upset you.

[philip.ed]

Thanks for the useful info Jaws.

The FN video taken from the fixed wing aircraft cockpit really shows best how tracers should, and will, look in the sim, with correct colors of course.

I have seen 30.06 tracers fired on a range from a bolt action rifle (US Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917. Same as the British P14 Enfield only in .30-06 instead of .303) and even standing behind the shooter who was shooting from a bench rest there was no visible "spiral" pattern of the tracer, and no smoke either. This was with WW2 era tracer ammo.

Do you think altitude will affect it? If the tracer is burning, wouldn't the burning tracer cause the cold air to condense...? or even if the tracer is burning, smoke would be produced?
Clearly, as Oleg has hinted/said, there were lots of different tracer types, all of which will (hopefully) be modelled.

[dduff442]

All your talking cannot hide the fact that you tried to pretend you fought in uniform. Where I come from that is deeply offensive. Some things cannot be relativized, no matter how much you try.

Yes, I know Tim Elkington from the forums. But just because I read his postings I don't confuse myself with him. I wonder what he'd think about a chat with someone who tries to pass himself off as a veteran.

You're asking us to believe he tried to pass himself off as a 90-year old BoB pilot with a very pronounced interest in the shapes of clouds in a yet to be published computer game, and that he furthermore chose to keep this information to himself but then immediately revealed it when asked.

My diagnosis is a malfunctioning irony module and, before we all go nuts, I'm being ironic (just not well).

dduff

[Redwan]

Cockpit looks great and dare we say photorealistic. Perfect job !
I also like the smoke and the fire ! Looks perfect !!!

On the screenshots, the grass looks strange ... but as it's not a ground simulator I wont be to severe on that point.

The clouds could look better and what I have seen untill now makes me a little bit worried about that point. In the previous screen sessions, the colouds looks too cartoony to me and I hope that it will be improved when all the wheather dynamics will be operational.

Now the clouds in BoB look like cotton wool bowls compared to what offer the latest simulators like ROF or FSX.

http://www.medical-world.biz/catalog/images/cotton_woolballs_l.jpg

http://www.firstaidwarehouse.co.uk/pic/280x280/02/42/cotton_wool_balls_small_242.jpg

Lets compare with some good standards of the simulation market.

BoB and FSX
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7344/bobfsx.jpg

[zakkandrachoff]

amazing. nice night view.f and hurricane damage propeller and rudder.
very very good. and the sound is great. please fix that sound problem that yu said and do a more large vid.

i still love so much the stuka pic. is my favorite
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g260/restranger/

[ElAurens]

Redwan, those FSX clouds are just photos. It's not the same as the 3D dynamic clouds necessary in a combat sim.

[Redwan]

Redwan, those FSX clouds are just photos. It's not the same as the 3D dynamic clouds necessary in a combat sim.

Uncorrect. These clouds are reald 3d clouds.
Have a looks at this videos and the related ones to convince yourself:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4id74IFprE&feature=related

[BP_Tailspin]

Redwan, those FSX clouds are just photos. It's not the same as the 3D dynamic clouds necessary in a combat sim.


Uncorrect. These clouds are reald 3d clouds. Have a looks at this videos and the related ones to convince yourself:



It looks like your just flying from one photo to the next ... it never looked as if you were interring or exiting a cloud. You never flew in the cloud, it looked like the cloud just flashed from one view to the next.

I'm not a 3d programmer, maybe Oleg can shed some light on this matter.

[peterwoods@supanet.com]

Further to the Moscow event referred to earlier.
I noticed that one of the Russian Web sites, after translation, referred to
"Total War - IL-2 - Battle of Britain" .

Maybe Ubi is giving Oleg problems with using "Storm of War"

What price "Total War" as opposed to "Storm of War"?

[undercut]

Those clouds in FSX look really nice but they also looked a little sprite-ish and static to me. The clouds in SOW are fully 3d particles and are dynamic which means they will change shape and direction based on atmospheric conditions and produce turbulence. If you watch the video he posted again and watch the edges of the clouds closely you can actually see the clouds kinda spreading away and slowly changing direction. I think these clouds in the video Oleg posted here are the most convincing fully 3d dynamic cumulus clouds I have ever seen in a game.

[major_setback]

From Russian 1C site.. translated with prompt)))

The company "1S-SoftKlab" informs that the studio 1С:Maddox Games conducts computer game working out «Silt-2 the Attack plane: Fight for Britain».

Continuation of the well-known aviasimulator «Silt-2 the Attack plane» shines events of the largest air battle of the Second World War which has lasted from July, 9th till October, 30th, 1940. During this period in the sky thousand planes of the Royal Air Forces of Great Britain and эскадрилий the Third Reich and fascist Italy rose. Now each admirer of aviasimulators will have a possibility to become the hero of Fight for Britain and to break a course of great battle!

In game in the smallest details huge territories — from London to Normandy and from Southampton to Dankerka are recreated. Interactive training will allow beginners to master quickly management of warplane, and flexible options — to optimize game process depending on level of skill of the user. Besides the single campaign including various tasks — from storms and interceptions before missions on rescue of companions, the multiuser modes will enter into game — in one fight can take part to 128 pilots.

From November, 3 till November, 6th visitors of an exhibition passing in Moscow «IgroMir 2010» will receive unique possibility to test in a role of pilots of legendary planes of World War II and to participate in Fight for Britain. All interested persons can not only play throughout «Silt-2 the Attack plane» at stands "1S-SoftKlab", but also receive particulars about the project which presentations will pass 4, on November, 5th and 6 on scenes B4 and C1.

http://games.1c.ru/images/news/6015.jpg
http://games.1c.ru/images/news/6016.jpg

I dont remember, were this screenshots in any updates?

Russian logo of the game)

This is an exceptional find for a newcomer to the forum!

I am pretty sure we haven't seen those exact screenshots before..at least not here on this forum.

[Chivas]

FSX clouds are poorly done with little substance. FSX terrain ground textures are worse. FSX water textures are worse than the terrain. If SOW looks anything like FSX I will throw up on my keyboard.

[The Kraken]

Uncorrect. These clouds are reald 3d clouds.
Have a looks at this videos and the related ones to convince yourself

They sure look nice, but more so the less they move. The FSX cloud system still uses big 2D billboards which have depth sorting issues (resulting in lots of flickering), they look unnatural when the camera is turning rapidly, they are difficult to use for line of sight calculations and they cannot change their shape dynamically (you can fade the textures in and out but that's it).

There is no perfect system for rendering clouds yet (i.e. true volumetric rendering with acceptable impact on performance), so compromises have to be made. From what I can see Oleg has chosen to further develop the Il2 cloud system, with better shading, higher resolution and more variety. He's still using less contrast than for example Rise of Flight which helps to reduce flickering, and more generic shapes which work better from all angles. That's important in a combat sim where you are more likely to fly through clouds at any angle - unlike a civilian sim where you are flying level for the most part.

Also don't forget that the REX clouds used as a reference is a commercial addon that costs about as much as the full SoW.

[major_setback]

There are other ways to achieve craters. A basic double pyramid with 6 sides only costs 16 triangles. Inverted, that looks like a hole. Graphic cards of today have a trick called tessellation. If the crater object was marked as an object that would receive tessellation, the card would increase that 16 triangles to 48, fo example. The crater now looks much smoother and the circular hole will have 12 sides.

Now add another trick, normal mapping (Dot3 bump mapping (http://www.game-artist.net/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=16)). Simplified, it's a texture, which tells the card to add extra height/thickness to a point on a model. Say white is very high/thick and black is nothing/zero. Lay a black&white noise texture over the crater and you get the inside surface to look like it's just exploded and it's covered with clumps of dirt and sand.

These effects should have little effect on the frame rate, as they can be distance-indexed, so they start to show only when you get closer. Similar to the LoD models aircraft have.

Bump mapping is an optical illusion, normal mapping really adds surface detail.

Left is bump-, right is normal-mapped. Notice the visual edge of the spheres:
http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Bump_map_vs_isosurface2.png/400px-Bump_map_vs_isosurface2.png


.


Oleg said a couple of times that craters will be bump mapped or similar (tessellation maybe), hopefully using the latest graphics technology for DX11.
I find it amazing what the new techniques can add to a flat modelled surface:


Video of tessellation on/off, a comparison:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdvZPIQpsQo
Tessellation explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPQ5Vy_5MP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uavLefzDuQ


OFF/ON

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Tessellation_aus_2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Tessellation_an_2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Unigine_Heaven_DX11_Tessellation_10.jpg?t=12885737 49



http://www.nordichardware.se/image3.php?id=10039
http://computershopper.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/directx-11-heaven-tessellation/448297-1-eng-US/directx-11-heaven-tessellation_maxwidth.jpg
http://www.evga.com/articles/00561/images/tessellation.jpg


http://www.geeks3d.com/public/jegx/201003/unigine-heaven-2-dx11-tessellation-off-03.jpg
http://www.geeks3d.com/public/jegx/201003/unigine-heaven-2-dx11-tessellation-on-03.jpg

[The Kraken]

There are other ways to achieve craters. A basic double pyramid with 6 sides only costs 16 triangles. Inverted, that looks like a hole. Graphic cards of today have a trick called tessellation. If the crater object was marked as an object that would receive tessellation, the card would increase that 16 triangles to 48, fo example. The crater now looks much smoother and the circular hole will have 12 sides.

Now add another trick, normal mapping (Dot3 bump mapping (http://www.game-artist.net/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=16)). Simplified, it's a texture, which tells the card to add extra height/thickness to a point on a model. Say white is very high/thick and black is nothing/zero. Lay a black&white noise texture over the crater and you get the inside surface to look like it's just exploded and it's covered with clumps of dirt and sand.

These effects should have little effect on the frame rate, as they can be distance-indexed, so they start to show only when you get closer. Similar to the LoD models aircraft have.

Bump mapping is an optical illusion, normal mapping really adds surface detail.

Left is bump-, right is normal-mapped. Notice the visual edge of the spheres:
http://wpcontent.answcdn.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Bump_map_vs_isosurface2.png/400px-Bump_map_vs_isosurface2.png

My understanding is that normal mapping is simply bump mapping with higher precision (explicit vs. implicit surface normals) but you still don't change the polygon shape of the object, and the shading is confined to the polygon area (no additional detail visible at the edges). That's where tesselation would come into play, I think that's what would be required to get the result on the image to the right. Could be wrong though; I've done some graphics programming but it's been a while ;)

Using displacement mapping could work nicely with craters, as this adds more depth than bump or normal maps and there'd still be one flat texture per crater like in Il2. Using actual 3D objects is still difficult because they have to go through a separate rendering pass or they'll interfere with the land surface (the crater surface has to be under the ground level). And making the landscape itself deformable with the resolution to render craters would be even more difficult. But who knows, Oleg may yet surprise us. I guess he's already chosen a technique so it's a bit late anyway to give suggestions :)

[Richie]

FSX clouds are poorly done with little substance. FSX terrain ground textures are worse. FSX water textures are worse than the terrain. If SOW looks anything like FSX I will throw up on my keyboard.
Me too

[The Kraken]

for example, when in a german plane, it can use a Gothic font, some Gothic patterns, and with an eagle symbol by it.

The luxurious seats are stuffed with eagle down and the dashboard inlaid
with the beaks of a thousand eagles. Also, there are some eagles under the
floorboards.

[airmalik]

Don't be such a drama queen ST,

all it does is make life unbearable.

ahem!

:)

[bf-110]

But this DX 11 isn´t available only for Vista and 7?

[baronWastelan]

FSX clouds are poorly done with little substance. FSX terrain ground textures are worse. FSX water textures are worse than the terrain. If SOW looks anything like FSX I will throw up on my keyboard.

Clouds & terrain look good on my install. Water: so-so. Granted I do use some 3rd party add ons. Take's more work to get it looking like this than a normal user would subject himself too...

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=187052&postcount=146

[334th_Gazoo]

http://youtubedownload.altervista.org/

Download this proggy. Its called Youtube downloader. It does just that. Right click on the url of the video you want to download. Then copy and paste it into the down load bar of the app. It'll ask you where to save it and you tell it .
It does some simple file conversions. So far anything that i've downloaded using this app, from Youtube is playable on the i pod and iphone.

[28_Condor]

Further to the Moscow event referred to earlier.
I noticed that one of the Russian Web sites, after translation, referred to
"Total War - IL-2 - Battle of Britain" .

Maybe Ubi is giving Oleg problems with using "Storm of War"

What price "Total War" as opposed to "Storm of War"?

Yes,

This is the translation by Sokol1:

Company "1C-Softlab reports that the studio 1C: Maddox Games is developing a computer game" IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain ".

Continuation of the famous flight simulator "IL-2 Sturmovik" covers events in the largest air battles of World War II, will run from July 9 to October 30, 1940. During this period, the sky rose a thousand aircraft of the Royal Air Force and squadrons of the Third Reich and Fascist Italy. Now every fan of flight simulators will be able to become the hero of the Battle of Britain, and change the course of a great battle!

The game has been recreated in great detail the huge territory - from London to Normandy from Southampton to Dankerka. Online training allows beginners to quickly master the management of combat aircraft, and flexible settings - to optimize the gameplay depending on skill level user. In addition to the single-player campaign that includes a variety of tasks - from assaults and interception missions to rescue comrades, the game will include multiplayer modes - in one battle can take part up to 128 pilots.

From 3 to 6 November, visitors of the exhibition "IGROMIR - 2010" in Moscow will have a unique opportunity to become a pilot of the legendary aircraft and take part in the Battle of Britain. Everyone will be able to play the sequel of IL-2 on the stands of 1C-Softlab, but also learn more about the project. Presentations will take place on 4, 5 and 6th November at stands C1 and B4."

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3127860/Igromir_2010_Battle_of_Britain.html

Direct source:

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=65108

;)

[Bearcat]

Oooo that must mean it is getting close..

[Skoshi Tiger]

Thanks for the useful info Jaws.

The FN video taken from the fixed wing aircraft cockpit really shows best how tracers should, and will, look in the sim, with correct colors of course.

I have seen 30.06 tracers fired on a range from a bolt action rifle (US Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917. Same as the British P14 Enfield only in .30-06 instead of .303) and even standing behind the shooter who was shooting from a bench rest there was no visible "spiral" pattern of the tracer, and no smoke either. This was with WW2 era tracer ammo.

In all this discussion nobody's mentioned that we have no idea about the condition of the barrels being used in those videos.

After the battle of Milne Bay some of the .50 cals on the RAAF Kittyhawks had been shot out to .60 cal (During the two week long battle, the RAAF fired 200,000 rounds of .50 cal from their Kittyhawks).

I'm sure the balistics from thoses guns would have been interesting.

A few pages back duff442 posted a few charts. The one I found interesting was

http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/fig18.htm which showed the 5.56mm AP round.

In it, the spiral motion reduced as the round gyroscopically stabilized itself after leaving the barrel.

Given that the charts only measured the round in the first 8000 calibres (44m for the 5.56mm) I doubt anything other than a high speed camera would be able to distinguish the motion. Unfortunately I can't read the scale (on any of the charts) that shows the magnitude of the displacement being measured.

Cheers!

[Luftwaffepilot]

Has Oleg ever mentioned that SoW will make use of the new technologies like tesselation?

[Aquarius]

Nice video, nice sound, only the aim of pilot could be better;)

Btw, I have a question...dont know if I can put it here, maybe not, just registered myself...Are you going to add some music during flying? Im used to listen to the pink floyd and velvet underground in IL-2 anyway and not going to change it, but im just curious...

[ptwparkinson]

I am eagerly awaiting the release of Storm Of War and I did pre-order through Playcom about 18 months ago . It is a pity that we did not see the release for the BOB anniversary and even worse still , it will not be released for Christmas this year . From what I understand we are now looking at February 2011 --- hopefully it will be well worth the wait --- with ref to the music question------ I think it was 2nd July this year that someone posted pictures of BOB Storm Of War beginning with an aircraft with plumes of black smoke behind it and the music soundtrack was a little bit like the music which was used in the Tom Hanks film Big when he was at the fairground machine -------- does anyone know what this music was --- the post has been removed for some reason --- it was on Youtube but it has gone now --- I think maybe the poster was someone from Oleg`s team perhaps ---- the music was as good as any Pink Floyd track and I do like Pink Floyd ---- but this music would be suitable whilst preparing for a scramble maybe !!!!
Can anyone help me with this -- it`s droving me crazy !!!!!!!!!

[JVM]

This is an exceptional find for a newcomer to the forum!

I am pretty sure we haven't seen those exact screenshots before..at least not here on this forum.

Actually, we have, on September 3rd. I have had the same feeling at first!
This proves that Oleg did show us quite a lot of stuff if it becomes so easy to forget something we saw already two months ago!

[dduff442]

Re: Tessellation

I'm not so sure games makers will be in such a hurry to adopt this. It's basically a labour saving measure for graphic designers, as I understand it at least. The number of DX11 cards out there is pretty small, and DX10 before it wasn't a massive hit with consumers.

dduff442

[LegTaste]

Its probably been said before, but i just cant understand some people, Hecke in particular.

This is the best looking sim there is, if theres anything better, let me know so i can buy it.

@ Oleg.

Will there be different intensities of light in the windows at night or do you have to make a compromise due to fps?

If you really need to ask this question, then you're not in a position to be critical of this game for not meeting your expectations, as you obviously have a poor understanding of hardware and software/game engines.

I'd go as far as saying clueless, unless you were being sarcastic. Neither work in your favour.

[Hecke]

Its probably been said before, but i just cant understand some people, Hecke in particular.

This is the best looking sim there is, if theres anything better, let me know so i can buy it.



If you really need to ask this question, then you're not in a position to be critical of this game for not meeting your expectations, as you obviously have a poor understanding of hardware and software/game engines.

I'd go as far as saying clueless, unless you were being sarcastic. Neither work in your favour.


Give it a rest! You better take your freetime to point out every good aspect of the sim each friday.

[Freycinet]

.http://www.nordichardware.se/image3.php?id=10039

Surely this is not just a difference between ON and OFF. Those are completely different 3D objects being shown. Don't think just adding tesselation will magically make roof tiles in the right shape. Or?

[SaQSoN]

Surely this is not just a difference between ON and OFF. Those are completely different 3D objects being shown. Don't think just adding tesselation will magically make roof tiles in the right shape. Or?

No, this is the same 3d object. But on the lower picture, the usual normal (or bump) map is used as a displacement map in conjunction with the tesselation. Which, basically, produces the new 3D object "on the fly". :)

The thing is, however, that this is hardly of any use in flightsim (appart from the cockpit model and water visual effects), since from the distance, a player usually see other objects in-game, the normal map works as good, as this feature.

PS On a second thought, this feature also can be used for finer ground surface generation, where even a small bumps can be modeled.

[JVM]

No, this is the same 3d object. But on the lower picture, the usual normal (or bump) map is used as a displacement map in conjunction with the tesselation. Which, basically, produces the new 3D object "on the fly". :)

The thing is, however, that this is hardly of any use in flightsim (appart from the cockpit model and water visual effects), since from the distance, a player usually see other objects in-game, the normal map works as good, as this feature.

PS On a second thought, this feature also can be used for finer ground surface generation, where even a small bumps can be modeled.
If tessellation can be "activated " function of viewing distance it would add a lot of "lifelikeness" to objects like rail ballast and sleepers, road sides, craters, generally man-made objects like houses, buildings...maybe without taxing too much FPS!
I hope professional 3D people will be able to enlighten us sooner or later :-) ...

[Old_Canuck]

Just a bit of sarcasm.

....

But no, I did not fight in the war but then I would never attempt to justifiy that I did. :D and me saying 'I was' is not me trying to lead you on.

.....

Give it up. Any credibility you thought you had is totally evaporated.

[fireflyerz]

YAAAAWWWWNNNNN, give it a rest will ya, its history....move on...Jeez:rolleyes:

[BadAim]

Some of us give military service more weight than others, that's all Jafa. I didn't take Phil seriously before that statement, but others might have, so it's easy to see some emotions might be aroused.

I think I actually kind of understand what Phil could have meant, in that us amateur historians really do get a sense of having been there, through reading about experiences of others, and through the study of the backdrop and circumstances of these events.

[speculum jockey]

Give it up. Any credibility you thought you had is totally evaporated.

Said the 25-45 year old virgin typing furiously in his mother's basement, waiting for her to bring down his din-din and explain this foreign concept of sarcasm and humour to his Aspergers riddled mind.

Grow up and get a freaking life.

All of us who have socialized in our lives (gone to that big scary room on the other side of your front door) and talked to people knew it was a joke. I especially knew that phillip was joking about being a BOB pilot since I was actually there in 1940 and I don't remember him.

p.s. I'm Douglas bader!

[fireflyerz]

Some of us give military service more weight than others, that's all Jafa. I didn't take Phil seriously before that statement, but others might have, so it's easy to see some emotions might be aroused.

I think I actually kind of understand what Phil could have meant, in that us amateur historians really do get a sense of having been there, through reading about experiences of others, and through the study of the backdrop and circumstances of these events.



BadAim, only said it in the respect that its been said enough times already and im shure if there is a message to get hes already got it, ive known phil for a couple of years now and he likes to lark arround so cut him some slack cos we were all that age once, ps he knows I hang arround here too and that I wouldnt stand for that crap either if he was trying to pass it off as real.

[Dano]

It was quite clearly an off the cuff quip with no basis in fact, how anybody could take it otherwise I just don't know.

[major_setback]

No, this is the same 3d object. But on the lower picture, the usual normal (or bump) map is used as a displacement map in conjunction with the tesselation. Which, basically, produces the new 3D object "on the fly". :)

The thing is, however, that this is hardly of any use in flightsim (appart from the cockpit model and water visual effects), since from the distance, a player usually see other objects in-game, the normal map works as good, as this feature.

PS On a second thought, this feature also can be used for finer ground surface generation, where even a small bumps can be modeled.

Oleg also mentioned that hedgerows might be 'mapped' in some way to give a 3D look, without having to model them. Bomb hole craters too maybe (as has been mentioned in this thread).

The picture: They are the same, but of course the model must be mapped in the correct way for the 3D effect to show...that is the wonder of this new graphics technology. It causes a lot less demand on your system than actual polygon modelling.
I think you need a dX11 compatible graphics card to enjoy the benefits of it.

[major_setback]

If tessellation can be "activated " function of viewing distance it would add a lot of "lifelikeness" to objects like rail ballast and sleepers, road sides, craters, generally man-made objects like houses, buildings...maybe without taxing too much FPS!
I hope professional 3D people will be able to enlighten us sooner or later :-) ...

I think SaQSoN is a professional.
Yes, I was also thinking of the railways...beaches (stones...rocks), cliffs. Even façades of bigger object buildings.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g260/restranger/shot_20101006_173127.jpg?t=1288626480

[Flanker35M]

S!

Tessellation is good for FPS games IMHO. Look at Metro 2033 and with high tessellation aka all DirectX 11 gimmicks on it brings to it's knees ANY of the new graphics cards. Really would you see from your 300mph+ speeding Spitfire or Hurricane cockpit if the stones of the railway would be bumped or not?

I really think tessellation could be dropped out of a flight sim that taxes the system hard enough without any more gimmicks to strain it even more. Sure, if an option for the screenie guys then sure, go for it. But if had to choose with it on at a 200+ plane engagement with decent FPS or horrbile FPS..no thanks.

Just my .2cents.

[major_setback]

S!

Tessellation is good for FPS games IMHO. Look at Metro 2033 and with high tessellation aka all DirectX 11 gimmicks on it brings to it's knees ANY of the new graphics cards. Really would you see from your 300mph+ speeding Spitfire or Hurricane cockpit if the stones of the railway would be bumped or not?

I really think tessellation could be dropped out of a flight sim that taxes the system hard enough without any more gimmicks to strain it even more. Sure, if an option for the screenie guys then sure, go for it. But if had to choose with it on at a 200+ plane engagement with decent FPS or horrbile FPS..no thanks.

Just my .2cents.


If it (or other techniques) can be used to make craters etc. without having polygon models then you might be getting performance benefit from it.

Anyway, I don't intend to start and finish missions in the air. There will be more to look at than sky.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by philip.ed http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/images/styles/blackyellow/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=194218#post194218)
Just a bit of sarcasm.

....

But no, I did not fight in the war but then I would never attempt to justifiy that I did. :grin: and me saying 'I was' is not me trying to lead you on.


Give it up. Any credibility you thought you had is totally evaporated.



I think that Phil is being sincere here, and wishes he gave some thought before making the post...when he first made the remark, I pictured him riding a tank with a general's rank, while the bliz...well, you know the rest:grin:

[Baron]

+1


Seems most people think tessellation wont effect fps or very little if so, compared to todays way of doing it.

It just takes some rational thinking to understand what tessellation in a game like SoW would do to framerates. Its not like they replace todays way with a more effective method, they are ADDING better graphics. More effective yes, but still MORE of it (hope u understand what i mean)

OMG my gpu just died would proppably fit in nicely if used in SoW for ex.

Hopefully in a couple of years?

[speculum jockey]

S!

Tessellation is good for FPS games IMHO. Look at Metro 2033 and with high tessellation aka all DirectX 11 gimmicks on it brings to it's knees ANY of the new graphics cards. Really would you see from your 300mph+ speeding Spitfire or Hurricane cockpit if the stones of the railway would be bumped or not?

I really think tessellation could be dropped out of a flight sim that taxes the system hard enough without any more gimmicks to strain it even more. Sure, if an option for the screenie guys then sure, go for it. But if had to choose with it on at a 200+ plane engagement with decent FPS or horrbile FPS..no thanks.

Just my .2cents.

Likewise, the only benefit I see at the moment is when you are starting up on the ground and taxiing out to the runway. As mentioned before, tesselized bomb craters would be nice, add some oomph to those evil landing gear benders.

[SaQSoN]

If tessellation can be "activated " function of viewing distance

This is exactly, how it works in the DX11, fully automatically. Basically, this feature replaces normal mapping feature. the later one is kind of "fake" 3D, which uses lighting effects to simulate small details. On the screenshot with the steam engine you can see "3D" rivetts, done with normal mapping. However, they only look 3D, while actually being flat.

Now, should the game support DX11 tesselation, at a certain distance (usually very close), the rivetts would become real 3D, in the following way: the polygon, this rivetts are painted on, would be tesselated into a HUGE number of a smaller polygons, which will be then displaced, using the same normal map as a displace map and form real 3D objects.

it would add a lot of "lifelikeness" to objects like rail ballast and sleepers, road sides, craters, generally man-made objects like houses, buildings...maybe without taxing too much FPS!..

Actually, that is what normal mapping does quite well too. And definitely with bigger FPS (since there is much less polygons used).
As I said above, you would see distictive difference between displacement map and normal map only very close to the object. In a flight sim player very rarely sees objects that close (except cockpit, offcourse).


The picture: They are the same, but of course the model must be mapped in the correct way for the 3D effect to show...that is the wonder of this new graphics technology. It causes a lot less demand on your system than actual polygon modelling.

If a model is correctly made and mapped for use of normal mapping, it will not have to be remodelled to support tesselation+displacement mapping of DX11.
So, generally speaking, if someday Oleg's programmers will decide to include support of this technology into the game, his models will work well with it without any change.

[SaQSoN]

If it (or other techniques) can be used to make craters etc. without having polygon models then you might be getting performance benefit from it.

You see, tesselation DOES BRING ADDITIONAL POLYGONS into the scene. Simply speaking, it "takes" a low-poly model and transforms it into a high-poly one (which, obviously looks better, if you are close enough to see the difference :) ).
This technology makes modeling easier, but it does not unload the GPU. On contrary, it loads it more. However, the modern (read, DX11 - compatible) GPUs can "chew" a lot more polygons, then the older ones, hence, allowing use of this technology without the significant performance drop.

PS Bomb craters are already 3D. ;)

[C_G]

re: tesselation;
Personally, I find the difference to be quite impressive.
But there are 2 concerns I have:
1- the fps hit.
If anyone has a DX11 capable card and a copy of the [-game-] [edit: Heaven benchmark] tesselation was demonstrated in, it would be interesting to know what impact the extra workload on the vid card caused (obviously while being played, not while taking still screenies).

2- can tesselation capability be easily laid over existing 3D models or does it require a complete rebuild?

C_G

[Hecke]

PS Bomb craters are already 3D. ;)

In SoW?

[SaQSoN]

In SoW?

Guess. :cool:

[Hecke]

Can you proof it? ;)

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by philip.ed http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/images/styles/blackyellow/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=194218#post194218)
Just a bit of sarcasm.

....

But no, I did not fight in the war but then I would never attempt to justifiy that I did. :grin: and me saying 'I was' is not me trying to lead you on.






I think that Phil is being sincere here, and wishes he gave some thought before making the post...when he first made the remark, I pictured him riding a tank with a general's rank, while the bliz...well, you know the rest:grin:

:D Yes, and as has been said before, the point I was attempting to make is that we may never actually be able to nail something 100% I believe in trying, but my point is that even people who served can be wrong and, similarly, correct too ;)

In comparison to other posts on here from some members, I really can't see how i was so out of line. I just should have said that I was joking in my original post.
Similarly, I don't see how a sense of humour can take away any credibility that I have. At the end of the day, one comment doesn't make me irrational; at least in my opinion. I don't want to debate my intelligence, but I am by no means stupid. My comment was stupid though; but then we are all humans, and if you've never made a mistake in your life you are boring and, probably, extremely weird.

Anyway, back to SoW? If anyone has any issues with what I said PM me. I'm happy to chat. I wish I hadn't posted that comment now, but I am struggling to see how that can get in the way of my intelligence or anything that I've done with regards to contribution (both for the forum and SoW).

[SaQSoN]

Can you proof it? ;)

Yes, I can.





That, however, doesn't mean, I will. :-P Ask Oleg. ;)

[Tree_UK]

My comment was stupid though; but then we are all humans, and if you've never made a mistake in your life you are boring and, probably, extremely weird.



I made made a mistake once, but it was that long ago that ive forgotten what it was?:confused: :grin:

[speculum jockey]

In comparison to other posts on here from some members, I really can't see how i was so out of line. I just should have said that I was joking in my original post.

Don't feel bad! These guys are just really ticked off and frustrated that their collection of 1:32 scale model WWII fighters are not raking in the chicks like they thought.

"But I have a BF-109G2 in winter camo! Why won't you go out with me!?!" Whhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. . . .

Once their moms powder their bottoms and put them to bed they'll settle down and forget your horribly offensive (sarcastic) post.

[philip.ed]

Don't feel bad! These guys are just really ticked off and frustrated that their collection of 1:32 scale model WWII fighters are not raking in the chicks like they thought.

"But I have a BF-109G2 in winter camo! Why won't you go out with me!?!" Whhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. . . .

Once their moms powder their bottoms and put them to bed they'll settle down and forget your horribly offensive (sarcastic) post.

:grin: I'm avoiding the temptation to say I agree, because if the sh*t hits the fan again, I'll need to clean the room again.

[Chivas]

Can you proof it? ;)

Its not proof, but I believe Oleg said that the damage to the hurricane in the last set of screenshots was caused by a bomb crater.

[major_setback]

Can you proof it? ;)

SaQSon knows what he is talking about. He is connected.:-)

[philip.ed]

He did :D Pretty cool IMO. This will make quick-scarmbles in bombing raids all-the-more interesting.
Did Oleg say how long the craters would remain on the airfield? It'll open up a whole can of possibilities for dynamic campaigns.

[major_setback]

He did :D Pretty cool IMO. This will make quick-scarmbles in bombing raids all-the-more interesting.
Did Oleg say how long the craters would remain on the airfield? It'll open up a whole can of possibilities for dynamic campaigns.

I don't think there was any mention of how long craters remain. Hopefully until a bulldozer comes and flattens them! :-) ...or a group of maintenance staff with shovels. 3rd party modellers take note.

[philip.ed]

That would be cool. But even to fly the next sortie (the next day) to see the holes filled and areas marked off showing an unexploded bomb.
Or, as you say, to fly home and see the ground-crew filling the holes in.
A boy can dream...

[peterwoods@supanet.com]

Apologies for unintentionally starting a hare>

Following up the discussion about the Moscow fair and references to IL-2 Battle of Britain I found this site:

http://www.igromir-expo.ru/news1/2010/248

Which, inter alia contained this paragraph:

Посетителей ждут эксклюзивные показы «Red Orchestra 2: Герои Сталинграда», Shogun 2: Total War, «Ил-2 Штурмовик: Битва за Британию», «Ведьмак 2: Убийцы королей», «Полный привод 3», Inversion, F.E.A.R. 3. Афиши с расписанием презентаций будут вывешены в секциях «1С-СофтКлаб». Генеральным техническим партнером выступит компании Meijin и LG, а техническими партнерами — NVIDIA, Defender, A4Tech, Saitek, Gametrix

Which, when translated by Live Search, gave me this:

Visitors waiting for exclusive impressions "Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad 2, Shogun: Total War, IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Britain ', ' the Witcher 2: Killer of Kings", "four-wheel drive", Inversion, F.E.A.R. 3. Poster with the schedule of presentations will be posted in section 1С-SoftKlab ". The company's technical partner will speak and LG, Meijin technical partners, NVIDIA, Defender, A4Tech, Saitek Gametrix.

I completely missed the comma after Total War and the fact that Total War was an element of “Shogun 2”. I really must read more carefully, (anybody got a spare copy of “Eats Shoots and Leaves”?).:confused:

So my money is back on “Storm of War” for the reasons stated in an earlier thread.
Pete

[major_setback]

I personally think they should abandon the Il2 tag. It only means something to those that will buy the game anyway. Everyone else wonders what it means. It is confusing and suggests it is aimed at a minimalistic group who would know it.
I have shown IL2 to several people, not one of them knew what IL2 meant or, more importantly how to say it ('eel two', 'ill too', 'aisle two').

If you can't say it you won't buy it!!!!


...

[Osprey]

All your talking cannot hide the fact that you tried to pretend you fought in uniform. Where I come from that is deeply offensive. Some things cannot be relativized, no matter how much you try.

Yes, I know Tim Elkington from the forums. But just because I read his postings I don't confuse myself with him. I wonder what he'd think about a chat with someone who tries to pass himself off as a veteran.

This is about winning an argument on the internet, nothing to do with being offended. If you get deeply offended this easily then your friends must tread on eggshells around you.

[SaQSoN]

I personally think they should abandon the Il2 tag.

To be honest, I also was extremely surprised, when I saw this title across the beta loading screen. Not the best choice, IMO

It may be completely wrong, but someone on Russian forum wrote, that according to Oleg, this was publisher's idea.

Sorry for spreading a rumor, he-he. Hopefully, Oleg will clarify this himself. ;)

[Dano]

To be honest, I also was extremely surprised, when I saw this title across the beta loading screen. Not the best choice, IMO

It may be completely wrong, but someone on Russian forum wrote, that according to Oleg, this was publisher's idea.

Sorry for spreading a rumor, he-he. Hopefully, Oleg will clarify this himself. ;)

<shakesfist>You bloody tease!!!</shakesfist>

[SaQSoN]

<shakesfist>You bloody tease!!!</shakesfist>

Yeah, you know, someone has to work hard, while you are wasting your time on this forums. :rolleyes: :-P

[Hecke]

Actually, I asked Oleg. ;)

The answer was, that he never stated there will be deep craters.

[Dano]

Yeah, you know, someone has to work hard, while you are wasting your time on this forums. :rolleyes: :-P

But, buuuut... you're on the forums too :D

I couldn't be more jealous lol :)

[SaQSoN]

Actually, I asked Oleg. ;)

The answer was, that he never stated there will be deep craters.

Neither did I, if you read my posts carefully. ;)

[Hecke]

Neither did I, if you read my posts carefully. ;)

Did I say, that you did? Man, don't interpret every single post just how you want it.

You better tell us more detailed what you know. :)

[SaQSoN]

But, buuuut... you're on the forums too :D

I need to chill a little in-between CTDs. :grin:

I couldn't be more jealous lol :)

Believe me, there is nothing to be jealous about. The build, that I have isn't in the state, where one can enjoy the game. But, even though, it looks very, very promising. :cool:

[Blackdog_kt]

Cockpit looks great and dare we say photorealistic. Perfect job !
I also like the smoke and the fire ! Looks perfect !!!

On the screenshots, the grass looks strange ... but as it's not a ground simulator I wont be to severe on that point.

The clouds could look better and what I have seen untill now makes me a little bit worried about that point. In the previous screen sessions, the colouds looks too cartoony to me and I hope that it will be improved when all the wheather dynamics will be operational.

Now the clouds in BoB look like cotton wool bowls compared to what offer the latest simulators like ROF or FSX.

http://www.medical-world.biz/catalog/images/cotton_woolballs_l.jpg

http://www.firstaidwarehouse.co.uk/pic/280x280/02/42/cotton_wool_balls_small_242.jpg

Lets compare with some good standards of the simulation market.

BoB and FSX
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7344/bobfsx.jpg

Guys, don't confuse the stock, 3d, volumetric FSX clouds with the ones from the real environment extreme payware add-on. The REX clouds are not fully 3d objects, but photographs of real clouds scanned into a PC and overlayed on the screen during gameplay. They say it themselves on their website.

You can also check it yourself by going to the FSX top-down view during a flight with cloudy weather. If you have the stock clouds, cloud cover is visible on the top-down/satellite view because the stock clouds are 3d. If you have REX installed you see clouds in all the other views but not in the satellite view. What REX probably does is read the weather information about where the default 3d clouds would appear and replace them with its own textures on the fly, which would explain why there's no clouds visible at all in the top-down view.

Don't get me wrong, they look terrific but when flying close or through them it's clearly visible that they are somewhat "flat". I like them a lot, but in a combat flight sim where people will use clouds as tactical tools there are other considerations that prevent such an approach.

If a cloud is a collection of 3-4 "flat" faces, how can the game engine calculate what's visible to each player in a multiplayer scenario? I might think i'm in the cloud trying to escape an attacker while he sees me plain as day, or vice versa. Also, how will this work (or not work) with ray-tracing/line of sight calculations for the AI, etc etc.

I wish we could have REX quality clouds through real 3d volumetric methods, but i think we don't have the PCs to do it yet. And since the question ends up being "prettier but technically dodgy or just pretty but tactically functional", for a combat flight sim the second option is best.

[philip.ed]

2007 stuff here. I have posted this before, but it shows (to me) that really good 3rd party apps for effects like clouds are available which also look great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLfHDul5XGw

[Dano]

I need to chill a little in-between CTDs. :grin:



Believe me, there is nothing to be jealous about. The build, that I have isn't in the state, where one can enjoy the game. But, even though, it looks very, very promising. :cool:

Still jealous lol :)

I'd happily spend hours compiling bug reports :D

[The Kraken]

2007 stuff here. I have posted this before, but it shows (to me) that really good 3rd party apps for effects like clouds are available which also look great.

Nice but with its own drawbacks, and there's always a risk when integrating 3rd party libraries into your code. FWIW you can try a demo of those clouds here (http://www.simul.co.uk/weather) (not sure it's the exact same thing but looks seems to use the same approach).

[philip.ed]

Nice but with its own drawbacks, and there's always a risk when integrating 3rd party libraries into your code. FWIW you can try a demo of those clouds here (http://www.simul.co.uk/weather) (not sure it's the exact same thing but looks seems to use the same approach).

Yes I thought that too...as Oleg has to model transparency etc for visibility and the AI coding, using 3rd party apps is probably too complex...

[Qpassa]

2007 stuff here. I have posted this before, but it shows (to me) that really good 3rd party apps for effects like clouds are available which also look great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLfHDul5XGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF9M4OF27_M

[major_setback]

I need to chill a little in-between CTDs. :grin:



Believe me, there is nothing to be jealous about. The build, that I have isn't in the state, where one can enjoy the game. But, even though, it looks very, very promising. :cool:

Someone will be along soon to ask you what computer you were running it on...
:-)

[major_setback]

That would be cool. But even to fly the next sortie (the next day) to see the holes filled and areas marked off showing an unexploded bomb.
Or, as you say, to fly home and see the ground-crew filling the holes in.
A boy can dream...

It would be extremely nice to see the ground look just a little different where the hole has been filled. Just a little difference in texture, a bit muddy maybe.

[Chivas]

Actually, I asked Oleg. ;)

The answer was, that he never stated there will be deep craters.

I think he said there won't be deep craters due to some sort of game engine restriction. BUT the question is how deep is deep? I would imagine they will have some depth, just not 10ft deep.

[philip.ed]

It would be extremely nice to see the ground look just a little different where the hole has been filled. Just a little difference in texture, a bit muddy maybe.

Yeah, I agree, it would be cool. I'm not sure how hard it'd be to model though?

[Dano]

I think he said there won't be deep craters due to some sort of game engine restriction. BUT the question is how deep is deep? I would imagine they will have some depth, just not 10ft deep.

About as deep as the trenches shown in shot 1 this week possibly?

[philip.ed]

If they're that deep I'd be extremely happy.
It'd be a first for cf-sims too, wouldn't it?

[bf-110]

I know I already asked,but,anyone know if Oleg told something about infantry in SoW at any time of its development?Too many posts on his threads...

[major_setback]

I know I already asked,but,anyone know if Oleg told something about infantry in SoW at any time of its development?Too many posts on his threads...

He said we would have to wait for it. It will not be in the original release. There will maybe be some civilians, and maybe some military, that's all.

EDIT: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=190279&postcount=320

..

[choctaw111]

Thanks a lot for the in game movie with sound.
Will the tracers have smoke trails?

Edit...sorry if already been asked.

[BadAim]

In my travels today, I noticed that the clouds looked painted on the sky. I wish I had a decent camera with me (my phone is very low tech, with a crap camera)(and at any rate I doubt even a good camera would have really captured the effect), because I think it would have made an interesting picture. Does that mean real life is under-modeled?

I've always thought that the clouds in Il2 were nice except for the "cotton-ball effect". Sunrises and sunsets can be quite spectacular in Il2, I doubt that we'll see something that is not exponentially better in SOW.

I'm personally just not worried about the clouds, I guess different people just have different priorities.

[Space Communist]

Its not proof, but I believe Oleg said that the damage to the hurricane in the last set of screenshots was caused by a bomb crater.

Yes he did and that is very cool, but it doesn't mean that bomb craters are 3D deformations of the terrain. In fact I seem to recall Oleg specifically saying that they are not, and that they are only bump-mapped so that they appear to have depth when you see them from altitude. You could still keep track of where they are and model damage from driving over them despite this.

Correct me if I am wrong but so far I haven't heard of anything to indicate that the engine supports deformable terrain geometry in any way.

[Fossil-Goz]

Someone will be along soon to ask you what computer you were running it on...
:-)


Hopefully they maybe more subtle and ask to help diagnose the CTD's with full details of the offending machine of course :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Yes he did and that is very cool, but it doesn't mean that bomb craters are 3D deformations of the terrain. In fact I seem to recall Oleg specifically saying that they are not, and that they are only bump-mapped so that they appear to have depth when you see them from altitude. You could still keep track of where they are and model damage from driving over them despite this.

Correct me if I am wrong but so far I haven't heard of anything to indicate that the engine supports deformable terrain geometry in any way.

I can't remember Oleg saying that they were bump-mapped but he did say
We don't promised deep craters. They will be but not so deep. Limits in engine grid.
For the deep craters renderings with so great size of map modelled you will need to wait 4-5 new generations of computers that to make it in flight sim visible completely in 3D, but not in 3D+2D. Crater has way more polygons that any of the complex building. And it is irregular in form.

I guess its how you interpret the comment "They will be but not so deep. Limits in engine grid".

Cheers