Hawker Hurricane.

[Rodolphe]

...

I'm a little late to react on the last Bob SoW "22nd Oct". update, I'm still recovering from a far east Jet lag. ; )

First of all I would like to thank Oleg and his team from their exceptional work.

I have some observations and questions on the cockpit screens of the flying Hawker Hurricane Mk I.


1. Does the Artificial Horizon tumble down ?

On the second Hurricane screen, if we look through the canopy, outside the window, the aero plane seems to be in a steep right hand turn (> 90°)
with quite a nose down attitude (pointing to the sea). Now if we have a look to the artificial horizon, the bank looks correct but the attitude is showing a nose up attitude.

Does the artificial horizon shown on this screens, be a gyro gimbals model that when striking the physical stops start to tumble if not caged ?


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/AH3.jpg





2. Engine management

Or more precisely fuel management.

On the Merlin III instruments panel installed on the right hand side of the forward cockpit, the engine instruments seem to be showing indications of a
running engine with 3100 RPM, 5.4 lbs pressure of boost, 90 lbs of oil pressure, Oil temp 85°, RAD Temp 100°.
But the reading on the fuel pressure gauge indicates 0 lbs, as it could be on a fail gauge.

Now if we have a look at the fuel cock control on the left side of the cockpit :
the fuel cock switch seems to be represented on the OFF position (9 O'clock position).

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Fuel2.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Fuel.jpg


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3739&d=1287754248





3. Pneumatic

As we all know, the firing and braking control system of the Hurricane is pneumatic.
Pushing the fire button or using the brake lever situated on the spade grip activate the correspondent pneumatic line, one for each system.

Have a closer look on the control column, are those pneumatic lines been represented like on this Hurricane Mk II diagram ?

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/PneumaticDiagram.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Pneumatic1.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Pneumatic6.jpg


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=3742&d=1287754268






Again, many thanks to Oleg and the Dev' team for the marvelous and splendid job they are doing with this new game.

Rodolphe



Edit : Pictures and Diagram added



...

[bolox]

tumbled AH- here's hoping! my thinking on this screenshot would be the plane is in a spin-apart from the turn /slip indicator:!: negative G might account for the zero fuel pressure?

fuel cock is in the 'reserve on' position- the off position is by rotating 180 anticlockwise (and pressing the spring loaded 'off' catch to reach this position)

air pipes certainly seem to be missing

added my own comments in the thread (probably lost in the 'chatter')about a few other minor annomalies- the 'major' one being red cardinal point markings on the compass- they were 'white' (not red) with the north marking being under a red square (for fighters- the larger bomber type had a red inverted triangle). however it does now have just 2 parallel wires instead of the later T pattern so Oleg does listen:cool:

+1000 to the thanks to the team working on this- they are doing a very very good job

[engarde]

i suggest if you research this situation in and existing il2 game, that would very likely answer your question.

[Rodolphe]

...


fuel cock is in the 'reserve on' position- the off position is by rotating 180 anticlockwise (and pressing the spring loaded 'off' catch to reach this position)


Not sure your assessment is correct. ;)


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Fuel2.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Fuel1.jpg


Though I've never had this fuel cock in hand, on the 2 pictures here above I think the cock in OFF position.


For clarification, I'll name the left part of the fuel cock the "Hammer Head" (the little cylinder in dark red colour on Oleg's screen), and the hollow right hand side, the "Handle" (in dark grey).

So from the OFF position shown on those pictures if you rotate the cock clockwise you do not need to press the catch to open the fuel valve to MAIN TANKS ON or RESERVE ON positions.
The "Hammer Head" can easily move.

If you rotate the cock anticlockwise from one of these later positions, you definitely need to press the metal catch to be able to slide the "Hammer Head" to the OFF position.
This catch should avoid to shut the fuel off in flight inadvertently.



Rodolphe

...

[bolox]

you're right- sorry for causing confusion

[Rodolphe]

...

No worries mate ;)


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Fuel3.jpg

Extract from the Hawker Hurricane Mk I Merlin II manual A.P. 1564A


...

[AndyJWest]

Now there is a classic example of bad design. If it confuses us sitting calmly in front of a PC, what must it have done to the poor b*gg*rs trying to fly the thing?

[Rodolphe]

...


4. The Cockpit Light Dimmer Switch relative position to the Remote Control System of the T.R.9D instalation.


Cockpit Light Dimmer Switch (yellow arrow = 57) , Remote Control System of the T.R.9D (red arrow = 60)

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit31.jpg

The Dimmer Switch seems to be installed between the left 02 casing/shafting Type 'C' of the Remote Control System on the screenshot above.




The Dimmer Switch could/should be installed underneath the 2 casing/shafting Type 'C', left of the Remote Control System as shown on the 4 pictures below.


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit35.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit27.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit28.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit36.jpg



...

[Rodolphe]

...


A schematic of the Remote Controller for the T.R.9D Radio .

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/TR9D3.jpg



5. Elevator Trimming Tab Control

The Trim Wheel as shown on the screenshot. (wood wheel with metal rim)

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/PitchTrim.jpg





Compare with those pictures

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/PitchTrim1.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Trim.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Trim1.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Trim4.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Trim2.jpg





Extract from Mk I and Mk II manual

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Trim3.jpg



...

[Rodolphe]

...


6.The Cine-Camera

Label "Gun Camera" Vs "Cine Camera"

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CineCamera4.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CineCamera6.jpg





Note the crispy external detail of the cine-camera installation on the leading edge of the starboard wing of the BoB Hurricane :cool: .

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CineCamera.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CineCamera2.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/CineCamera5.jpg

...

[Skoshi Tiger]

Some fine detail in those shots!

I'm getting more excited as every new detail of BoB gets released. Even with minor issues like the 'gun' camera, it shaping up to be one hell of a sim!

Cheers!

[Rodolphe]

...


6. Oxygen supply.

Though the Oxygen regulator gages are visible on the instrument panel, the Oxygen lines are, for some strange reason, missing on this WIP screen of the Hurricane.



Hurricane Mk I Air Publication 1564A

#59 Oxygen supply bayonet socket
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit33a.jpg




Hurricane Mk II Air Publication 1564B & D

#6 Oxygen supply cock.
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit17a.jpg

...

[Rodolphe]

...

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Oxygen2.jpg




http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Oxygen3.jpg




http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Cokcpit36.jpg



...

[bolox]

couple of pics valve shown in MKII Hurri

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/brit%20gauges/MKVIIIoxyvalve3.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/brit%20gauges/MKVIIIoxyvalve1.jpg

from here
http://www.spitfirespares.com/SpitfireSpares.com/Pages/oxygen.html
- listed as 'early spit'

[Rodolphe]

...

Here some details of the Oxygen Mask Hose and Connectors (Pilot equipment)


Oxygen Mask Type D 6D/108 constant flow mask fitted with the Type 19 chamois covered microphone,
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Oxygen5.jpg


The thin rubber oxygen tubes (bi-coloured) and the Mk IIIb Bayonnet connector 6D/101 to be plugged directly into the aircraft's main oxygen supply.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Oxygen4.jpg

http://www.flightgear.ch/Pictures/RAF%20Taylor%20buoyancy%20suit/oxy%204.jpg

http://www.worthpoint.com/pmimages/images1/1/0408/26/1_c4832ed92231863d310fa6495a3af186.jpg


http://www.flightgear.ch/Pictures/RAF%20B%20type/BTYPE%204050%20RAF%20CR%20P18.jpg


...

[koivis]

Rodolphe, you are such a nitpicker. That being said, I encourage you to keep doing it, because I would do exactly the same if I had such a vast knowledge of WWII aeroplane systems and details like you. Also, I'm 100% sure that when Oleg and co. get the first version out, you will be listened to, and the errors fixed. Thank you.

[philip.ed]

...

Here some details of the Oxygen Mask Hose and Connectors (Pilot equipment)


Oxygen Mask Type D 6D/108 constant flow mask fitted with the Type 19 chamois covered microphone,
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Oxygen5.jpg


The thin rubber oxygen tubes (bi-coloured) and the Mk IIIb Bayonnet connector 6D/101 to be plugged directly into the aircraft's main oxygen supply.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Oxygen4.jpg

http://www.flightgear.ch/Pictures/RAF%20Taylor%20buoyancy%20suit/oxy%204.jpg

http://www.worthpoint.com/pmimages/images1/1/0408/26/1_c4832ed92231863d310fa6495a3af186.jpg


http://www.flightgear.ch/Pictures/RAF%20B%20type/BTYPE%204050%20RAF%20CR%20P18.jpg


...

I've got a length of this, albeit repro, like the ones shown. Infact, all of these are repro, apart from maybe the legth of rubber-adapter.
I sent Oleg a lot of reference for RAF flight kit, which he's used. Some of these pictures I sent him! (although not these exact ones). great posting(s) thanks! :D

[engarde]

i have to say your calm, knowledge packed approach to improving certain details impresses me greatly.

no nonsense, pointers verified by period photos.

bravo.

now lets see if the monkeys that bash on keyboards whilst screaming at the monitor can learn from your example?

[Rodolphe]

...

7. Fuel contents gauge

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst0.jpg


On the two BoB Hurricane screenshots shown above, the Fuel contents gauge max quantity mark is 37 Gallons.

This gauge installation will be correct on an instrument panel of a ....
Supermarine Spitfire. :grin:



As per the Spifire manual :

Fuel contents gauge11.
The fuel contents gauge on the starboard side of the instrument panel indicates the contents of the bottom tank (37 gallons)

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInstSpit2.jpg


Exemple of the Spitfire Fuel contents gauge :


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInstSpit1.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInstSpit.jpg







Exemple of Fuel gauge on the Hawker Hurricane :

The Fuel contents gauge max quantity mark is F.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst4.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst5.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst6.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst7.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst8.jpg



...

[winny]

Good spot..

Here's a better pic

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz147/winistrone/SoW/Hurricanefuel2.jpg

[Flying Pencil]

Excellent work as always, Rodolphe!!

BTW, where did you come back from?
I just returned from Japan myself last night!

S!

[Mysticpuma]

I see someone looking for a job!

Now, lets start posting P-51 and P-47 info. for future releases to look correct as-well!

Seriously, very impressive detailed research.

Cheers, MP

[Rodolphe]

...



Thanks !

8. Reflector Sight Spare Lamps


Gosh ! when I'll get back on the ground, I need to ask Davy, the fitter/rigger to have those Spare Bulbs replaced. ;)

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/SpareBulbs.jpg
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/SpareBulbs3.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/SpareBulbs2.jpg
http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/SpareBulbs4.jpg








9.Instrument Digit Colours Disregard, see post #26 below

Less important details (not significant) :grin:


On the 'Oil Pressure' gauge, some figures (120 - 60) and main dashes are painted in Orange Fluorescence colour.
Check the 'Fuel Pressure' gauge (0-2-4) , the 'Radiator Temperature' gauge (60-80-100-120-140), the 'Boost' gauge Etc ...

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/EngInst.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/ColourDigit.jpg




...

[bolox]

the 'orange' paint on some numbers/lettering is the luminous paint that's 'gone off' with age. originally this would have been a creamy white colour and early on quite thick/blobby in appearance
of course the 'nightlight' view should make these 'orange' letters/numbers only 'glow'

(at least we no longer have the green numbering of late/post war instruments seen in early wip pics ;) )

spot on as usual with other points:cool:

[Rodolphe]

...

the 'orange' paint on some numbers/lettering is the luminous paint that's 'gone off' with age.
originally this would have been a creamy white colour and early on quite thick/blobby in appearance
of course the 'nightlight' view should make these 'orange' letters/numbers only 'glow'

(at least we no longer have the green numbering of late/post war instruments seen in early wip pics ;) )

spot on as usual with other points:cool:




You're right bolox. ;)

A lighter 'gone off' effect (different paint) on those exemples of my private german instruments.



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/InstGlow.jpg


the 'nightlight' view should make these 'orange' letters/numbers only 'glow'

This is an important point.


The glowing Variometer from the above collection.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/InstGlow1.jpg

...

[Rodolphe]

...


The 'creamy' digits and needles on the Blenheim IV instruments... ;)

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/InstGlow2.jpg



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/InstGlow3.jpg



And on the Spitfire Instruments.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/InstGlow4.jpg




I had a closer look on the Hurricane instruments. Although the sun shines directly on the Oil Pressure and Oil Temperature Gauges,
the needle and some of the digits seem to be in the correct 'creamy' colours as well . ; ))

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/InstGlow5.jpg



Another outstanding job ! Thanks to the Dev.

...

[bolox]

turning indicator centre is still showing 'AN' instead of AM (air ministry) in last pic- thought this had been addressed-might be a 'stray' old texture?

centre should look something like this (white lettering was painted over stamping on some early examples- slightly later were just stamped in)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/brit%20gauges/ts-centrecopy-1.jpg

[Qpassa]

bump. most interesting thread i have ever seen created by an user

[Rodolphe]

...

Muchas gracias ! ; ))



Let's come back on the previous post # 7 'Fuel Contents Gauge' , the Spitfire style gauge installed on the Hawker Hurricane instrument panel.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=197036&postcount=19


If we go behind the curtain we'll find out those aero planes are equipped with two different fuel quantity indication systems.


1. On the Supermarine Spitfire Mk I & Mk II,

The fuel gauge indication is a single tank, single transmitter system which went the push button (adjacent to the gauge) is pressed,
shows the fuel quantity remaining only in the lower tank (max 37 gals).
The dual scale on the gauge allows us to read the fuel quantity in that tank when the aircraft is in two different attitudes 'Tail on Ground' and 'Normal Flight'.
The upper tank (48 gals) is not gauged.


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/FuelGaugesInst1.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/FuelGaugesInst.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/FuelGaugesInst5.jpg





2. On the Hawker Hurricane Mk I & Mk II,

The fuel gauge is a multi tanks, multi transmitters system.

We need to select the appropriate tank with the fuel contents gauge selector arm and press the pushbutton to be able to read the remaining fuel quantity in the selected tank.
The dual scale on the gauge gives us a direct reading of the fuel quantity in the reserve tank on the upper scale or in the selected main tank, port or starboard on the lower scale.

It should be noted that these readings are not correct when the aero plane has the tail on the ground.
A table, fixed on the exit panel on the starboard side of the cockpit, allows us to convert the actual readings of the reserve and main tanks in relation to tail on the ground position of the aircraft.


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/FuelGaugesInst2.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Fuel8.jpghttp://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/FuelGaugesInst3.jpg

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/FuelGaugesInst6.jpg


The conversion table on the exit panel. Better picture needed ! :oops:

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/ConversionTable3.jpg




The exit panel of the BoB WIP Hurricane.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/ConversionTable1.jpg



...

[zodiac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOUPT9Gh_C4

In this video you can see some of the discussed parts in movement.

[ATURIUS]

I can you help im trying to make a replica of a Huricane door youve shown a great pic of the inner door do you have a pic of the outter