the whole losing-the-helmet thing i STILL think is pointless..

[wtfbollos]

i would suggest that we could entirely cut-out the whole losing-the-helmet sub routines as they are pointless and distractory..(thats not a real word!)..

i thought this in the early days and still think so now i only just installed mow and have started playing it again..

:mrgreen:

[Crni vuk]

now that as you mention it ... youre are totally right. It always was anyoing but it seems I forgot about it. But yes, they should change that. As its not only very unrealistic but also not very helpfull. Before a soldier might loose his helmet (from a detonation orwhat ever) he would be probably rather dead from the effect.

[kane1]

I don't like having to put my soldiers helmet on every few minutes but I think it adds realism. It makes the soldiers less bot like, if you know what I mean.

[Korsakov829]

Mod a 30% chance to lose helmet?

[wtfbollos]

I think it adds realism.
with respect, the problem is this game doesn't give you much time to stop and admire the flowers as it is..

if my memory serves me correctly this does actually affect a soldiers resistance to bullets, in the game?

either way, in reality soldiers get bullets ping off their helmets all the time and keep them on. they have chin straps.


i'm all for a bit of macro-management, but just think it adds a pointless bit of activity you have to do (i always try and make sure my guys have their lids on..), in a game that gives you VERY little time to do much else..

[wtfbollos]

Mod a 30% chance to lose helmet?
actually thats not a bad idea..

a lot of these ideas could be made optional settings on the menu..

[Korsakov829]

either way, in reality soldiers get bullets ping off their helmets all the time and keep them on. they have chin straps.

Sometimes they shatter and can enter the soldiers shoulder or neck. This happened in 2008 South Ossetia. Georgian soldier died of internal bleeding in the neck. If a .50 or .57 cal it will often go through a helmet. Many soldiers in history do not strap on the helmet due to every helmet being just about the same size.

[kane1]

with respect, the problem is this game doesn't give you much time to stop and admire the flowers as it is..

if my memory serves me correctly this does actually affect a soldiers resistance to bullets, in the game?

either way, in reality soldiers get bullets ping off their helmets all the time and keep them on. they have chin straps.


i'm all for a bit of macro-management, but just think it adds a pointless bit of activity you have to do (i always try and make sure my guys have their lids on..), in a game that gives you VERY little time to do much else..


When I said "adds realism" I didn't mean like in "Real Life". Being able to get you helmet shot off or shooting the enemy's helmet off or picking up a helmet off the ground adds more to the game then takes away IMO. It's like shooting out a window, one more small thing that adds to the game.

I agree with most of what you said, if they took out that feature I wouldn't like the game any less, but with it in I like the game more. Like you said this game gets pretty hectic so most of the time I don't even think about my guys wearing helmets.

[KnightFandragon]

The Helm falling off might seem retarded but it stops a bullet which would otherwise really mess your soldiers world up. So its a pretty powerful item, it takes out the hat instead of head shotting him. So it stopping only 1 round and falling off makes sense for gameplay. I know this game is supposed to be closer to realism but still, would you really want the helm stopping like half a mag...and in reality those WW2 helms didnt stop much did they? So them stopping anything is already unrealistic as is. =D

[wtfbollos]

Sometimes they shatter and can enter the soldiers shoulder or neck. This happened in 2008 South Ossetia. Georgian soldier died of internal bleeding in the neck. If a .50 or .57 cal it will often go through a helmet. Many soldiers in history do not strap on the helmet due to every helmet being just about the same size.
a bullet going thru the helmet and killing the solider is fine..not much will stop a 50 cal..

it's the mechanics of the losing the helmet thing, in this game, that i have a small problem with..

[wtfbollos]

When I said "adds realism" I didn't mean like in "Real Life". Being able to get you helmet shot off or shooting the enemy's helmet off or picking up a helmet off the ground adds more to the game then takes away IMO
well i think we have enough to do without this 'feature'..

It's like shooting out a window, one more small thing that adds to the game.
that's a bit different as it's the environment. i appreciate the environment in this game, but the helmet thing is a small and a bit silly distraction, imo..

I agree with most of what you said, if they took out that feature I wouldn't like the game any less, but with it in I like the game more. Like you said this game gets pretty hectic so most of the time I don't even think about my guys wearing helmets.
well, we maybe exposing them to more damage without them?

not sure how it works in the game, a more experienced person than myself could tell us..

[wtfbollos]

The Helm falling off might seem retarded but it stops a bullet which would otherwise really mess your soldiers world up. So its a pretty powerful item, it takes out the hat instead of head shotting him.
yeah i always try and keep my guys lids on..

So it stopping only 1 round and falling off makes sense for gameplay. I know this game is supposed to be closer to realism but still, would you really want the helm stopping like half a mag...and in reality those WW2 helms didnt stop much did they? So them stopping anything is already unrealistic as is. =D
why not just treat it like anything else and have a HP count?

so 2nd or 3rd bullets would just go straight thru?

i'd be ko with that.

i'm just thinking i have enough to do restocking weapons, laying mines organising troops (which is the essence of the game) to worry about this silly helmet thing..that's all..

[Korsakov829]

I think its good because against another player there can be a big difference in skill level. A question though, are red berets etc treated the same as a helmet, in effectiveness?

[Crni vuk]

I don't like having to put my soldiers helmet on every few minutes but I think it adds realism. It makes the soldiers less bot like, if you know what I mean.

Not really. Usualy a soldier would keep his helmet and close the strips exactly to prevent it dissapearing suddenly. Thats something they usualy keep really an eye on while training (discipline and such). At least for the German army this was standart. If the instructors would find you with unaceptable shape (like open strips) you would face some punishment. Same for most other armies. All this "loosing helmet" thing does is ading another useless micromanagement to the game which should be removed as you have to keep an eye on a lot of things already and runing around to pick up your helmet is neither realistic nor really anything usefull for the gameplay (i rarely if ever do that).

Regarding protection, reall the helmet is NOT there to protect from bullets. It doesnt mean that it might give you no protection but the chance to survive a clear straight shoot even by a 9mm are very small maybe past 100 meters it would richochet, eventually (but even then only when it hits a bad angle).

What a helmet usualy should do is protect your head from injuries if you drop down or something. They say it also gives protection against shrapnels but even that probably only if the angle allows it (a helmet has a round shape afterall), because the metal is quite thin. Its a myth a helmet could protect from bullets. For example the 7.96mm mauser which wsa pretty much the standart rifle amunition for the German army would have no trouble to penetrate a usual steel helmet from more then 1500 meters (if you hit). I think the bullet could even penetrate up to 1cm of armor. But I am not sure about that. Today modern helmets "maybe" can give you aditional protection where you survive head shoots that would otherwise clearly kill you without a helmet but even that requires a bit of luck. But still the main reason for helmets is to protect the head from injuries as it can happen very fast in combat that you have to either hit the dirt or you simply fall down.

[Korsakov829]

If all soldiers strap their helmets on then the Americans in Vietnam were on marijuana.

[KnightFandragon]

I think its good because against another player there can be a big difference in skill level. A question though, are red berets etc treated the same as a helmet, in effectiveness?

From what I can tell yeah they are, ive had men with the black berets on, ive shot the sailor dudes and their caps fly off all the same as a metal hat.

[Korsakov829]

That sucks. There were sometimes a metal rim inside the hats but thats about it.

[Crni vuk]

If all soldiers strap their helmets on then the Americans in Vietnam were on marijuana.
They probably just didnt cared about it. But I am quite certain drill instructors looked for it during training. If people did it in combat or not is a different question.

But thats a competely different time and war so soldiers and their perception might have changed. There are so many factors behind it that I guess one could write a book about it. And I have no clue why for Vietnam things seem different (maybe its cause the generation which moved out for war was a different one ?).

Anyway thing is that when youre searching for images about WW2 regardless if in battle or not you will have a very hard time to find pictures where the soldiers are using their helmets without a closed strap. As simple as that. And since MoW is a WW2 game I think thats kinda relevant. Not what some desilusioned indidivuals did in Nam.

*Edit
101airborne (http://www.101airborneww2.com/warstories2.html)
It seems though that at least for some there have been mixed situations where some closed their straps while others didnt. But I assume that many have been in a somewhat "relaxed" state while the pictures have been done to say it that way. Meaning days of no sleep, marching and now a quiet moment to take a picture would leave enough room to make your self somewhat comfortable. But I guess in combat most would keep their straps closed.

Coinsidence also wants it that our helmets in the Firebrigade looked and closed very similar to a usual helmet as seen by most German soldiers. THing is that during walking or a conversation when nothing happend we would simply keep the helmet on the head without the straps. But if you knew you had to get out, or do something you would always look to close it. I can only assume it was similar for most soldiers.

http://www.loeschgruppe-strauch.de/pics/feuerwehrhelm.gif

[kane1]

"but I think it adds realism." That's what I wrote but not what I meant. I meant that It makes them less like "PC Bots". It makes it mean more to shoot them or get shot.

"It's like shooting out a window, one more small thing that adds to the game." I know their different, my point was that it's one more cool thing about this game, like using a gas can to refuel your vehicle or using matches to light a field on fire.

[MasacruAlex]

This feature is great as it is, maybe a bit optimized will do better, like the helmets would be thrown off much closer to your soldier and an option to set on/ off to auto pick helmets if not wearing one or something.

[wtfbollos]

Not really. Usualy a soldier would keep his helmet and close the strips exactly to prevent it dissapearing suddenly. Thats something they usualy keep really an eye on while training (discipline and such). At least for the German army this was standart. If the instructors would find you with unaceptable shape (like open strips) you would face some punishment. Same for most other armies. All this "loosing helmet" thing does is ading another useless micromanagement to the game which should be removed as you have to keep an eye on a lot of things already and runing around to pick up your helmet is neither realistic nor really anything usefull for the gameplay (i rarely if ever do that).
....................................

[wtfbollos]

If all soldiers strap their helmets on then the Americans in Vietnam were on marijuana.
er..i think they were?!

altho they were conscripts?

[wtfbollos]

...my point was that it's one more cool thing about this game, like using a gas can to refuel your vehicle or using matches to light a field on fire.
but it's not the same.

as was previously said, soldiers are ordered to keep their chin straps done up, otherwise they will be punished.

any shot that can rip off a persons chin strap and throw a METAL helmet what looks like 20 or 30 yards away would go straight thru a guy a kill him instantly.

thats not realistic. a truck running out of fuel is. using matches to light a fire is.

...and, as has been said recently, it just adds what is, imo, a silly micro management part to the game that is unnecessary. this is about STRATEGY not organisation, imo..

[wtfbollos]

This feature is great as it is, maybe a bit optimized will do better, like the helmets would be thrown off much closer to your soldier and an option to set on/ off to auto pick helmets if not wearing one or something.
do you make a point of making sure your troops have their helmets on, or do you just leave it?

[kane1]

but it's not the same.

as was previously said, soldiers are ordered to keep their chin straps done up, otherwise they will be punished.

any shot that can rip off a persons chin strap and throw a METAL helmet what looks like 20 or 30 yards away would go straight thru a guy a kill him instantly.

thats not realistic. a truck running out of fuel is. using matches to light a fire is.

...and, as has been said recently, it just adds what is, imo, a silly micro management part to the game that is unnecessary. this is about STRATEGY not organisation, imo..

I know I said "realism", I'm not trying to say it's realistic. I think shooting the helmets off is a nice touch a nice detail, like refueling vehicles, like starting a field on fire, like shooting out a window. In the earlier games(SHoWW2,FoW) when you had less troops to control it made more sense. I get it, you think it's unnecessary. I think the Dev's did a great job with this game.

[Crni vuk]

yes, but think about it what he says. If you have a situation with enough force to "throw your helmet" away chance are big the soldier died cause of it. As said it just looks silly to have at some point a lot of people runing around without a helmet >_<

Though I have to say this only bothered me in singleplayer very much as in MP you replace your infantry so fast that you dont notice it that much, but it happens sometimes. In singleplayer as I try to keep my men alive I had at some point 80% of them runing around without helmets or using a captured one ... now to have your russian army with axis helmets, is a nice thing :-P

[wtfbollos]

I know I said "realism", I'm not trying to say it's realistic. I think shooting the helmets off is a nice touch a nice detail, like refueling vehicles, like starting a field on fire, like shooting out a window. In the earlier games(SHoWW2,FoW) when you had less troops to control it made more sense. I get it, you think it's unnecessary. I think the Dev's did a great job with this game.
it's a nice action, the animation works well, artisticly i'd say it was a nice touch, but not as far as being important for this game, again i think it detracts from it, however slightly..

with infantry you have to think about:

where your guy is.
is he safe, what enemy are around him.
what weapons he has.
what ammo he has.
if he has enough health on him or in coop morphine.
does he need to apply a health to himself?
is he part of any plans or is he staying there on defence?
is he assigned to a number to be called instantly?

now where's that damn helmet..

i don't think if soldiers died with their helmets on, we'd suddenly have a lot of time on our hands to admire the scenery..idk about you but i never have enough time to get done what i want to do.

i played soldiers from 2005 i think hacked someones elses mod and made my own actually (http://eupeople.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=210) and it's rubbish lol (never finished it blahbla ^^). yes the devs did a great job with this game, shame the engine can only use one core tho (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=16969)!

any shot that can rip off a persons chin strap and throw a METAL helmet what looks like 20 or 30 yards away would go straight thru a guy a kill him instantly.

...and, as has been said recently, it just adds what is, imo, a silly micro management part to the game that is unnecessary. this is about STRATEGY not organisation, imo..

[G. Martel]

only noobs worry about that type of issue, i like the fact that when there is a engagement battle you see bullets, helmets, shells, explotions all around, all that create CHAOS.

[Suvqt]

Well the helmet absorbs a shot that would otherwise maybe kill your guy, wich is great! But it falls of to easy, yeh one bullet wouldn't always shoot of the helmet. Since you strap it on your head...

And plz, Don't say real soldiers dont strap the helmets on there heads. Were have you seen it? Yes In movies... Dont belive everything you seee.

I think the helmets are great, and yeh if there is helmets, shellholes, Dead bodies, Weapons lyinga around its just awsome!

[Crni vuk]

And plz, Don't say real soldiers dont strap the helmets on there heads. Were have you seen it? Yes In movies... Dont belive everything you seee.

Not just in movies. There are countless images either about WW2 or Vietnam where you can find at least US soldiers where the strap is not closed. But I think that can not be really used for combat as I would go so far to say that in combat most people had their helmet fixed. Also one should keep the situation in mind where most pictures dont show actual combat but more places and times when the soldiers have been in a rather relaxed condition like during cease fires and simply waiting in standby.

[Korsakov829]

...Were have you seen it...

Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia... I never liked helmets myself I would prefer to have a hat instead, I could never find a helmet that fit me.

[SpeedWolf]

i don't know about you guys but i vote to keep the helmet because is more realistic.

this is why http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-helmet-in-action.html

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/time-warp-kevlar-helmet.html