SOW BOB : OpenGL or DirectX ?

[ebrain]

Does anyone knows FOR SURE what is the graphic API behind this game ? Sometimes I read OpenGL, sometimes I read DirectX, I dont' know what to think.

For me it's quite simple. If it's based on DirectX, I will never play that game, for beeing on Linux. If it's based on OpenGL, Wine should work quite good, as it's the case with IL-2. And trust me, I will NEVER install a shitty OS (to my point of view at least, I don't want to troll about that) just to play one game, this is really out of question.

Thank you for your answers :confused:.

[Feuerfalke]

AFAIK it will be DX.

[Masi67]

DirectX11 if I recall, no OpenGL support. You won't be playing IL2 in Linux, why not make dualboot:)

[Feuerfalke]

DirectX11 if I recall, no OpenGL support. You won't be playing IL2 in Linux, why not make dualboot:)

Naaah, he will NEVER install a shitty OS.

Quite bad, when the bullhead get's in the way of living.

[Tree_UK]

Should be DX 11 according to Oleg, hopefully will see some screenies soon. :grin:

[Masi67]

Naaah, he will NEVER install a shitty OS.

Quite bad, when the bullhead get's in the way of living.

Actually when you are not playing, there is more time for Living :grin:

[Feuerfalke]

Actually when you are not playing, there is more time for Living :grin:

Good point.

[ebrain]

I thought I was clear about not installing Windows, and not trolling about this ;). I make choices that I don't want to sacrifice for one god damn game, respect at least that. I hope you make choices in your life too, even if it's not about computers.

Well, I'll play to IL-2, at least it's fun, even if it's not really pretty anymore :).

[Feuerfalke]

We all make choices. Some of them are good, some of them are bad, most of them are revised or regretted sooner or later.

Anyway, my most important choice was to keep an open mind.


The world is much to colorful to judge in black and white, no and yes, good and bad.



And to make a rule for living about something as unimportant for my life as my hobby-PC..., well, your choice.

[ebrain]

We all make choices. Some of them are good, some of them are bad, most of them are revised or regretted sooner or later.

You're so quick to choose the path walked by the righteous !

[Masi67]

I thought I was clear about not installing Windows, and not trolling about this ;). I make choices that I don't want to sacrifice for one god damn game, respect at least that. I hope you make choices in your life too, even if it's not about computers.

Well, I'll play to IL-2, at least it's fun, even if it's not really pretty anymore :).

Of course I respect your choice, I have PC from 2003, so I should upgrade my system in order to play. And I am not at all sure I will spent 1000€ just to play Sow.

I think I anyway buy the game, just to support and keep sim genre alive:)

BTW, If SoW runs only in DirectX11, then we as WinXP-users are out too

Choices Choices:)

-Masi

[kendo65]

Of course I respect your choice, I have PC from 2003, so I should upgrade my system in order to play. And I am not at all sure I will spent 1000€ just to play Sow.

I think I anyway buy the game, just to support and keep sim genre alive:)

BTW, If SoW runs only in DirectX11, then we as WinXP-users are out too

Choices Choices:)

-Masi

Don't worry - it will run in DX9, DX10 and DX11. Oleg said so.

[robtek]

I think it is NEVER ok to reduce the options one has!
I'm running win7/64, the best windows ever imho, and i would install linux asap if thats what is needed for SoW:BoB!
But each his own.

[merlin1]

Don't worry - it will run in DX9, DX10 and DX11. Oleg said so.


Please confirm that with some link...:confused:

[Dano]

Please confirm that with some link...:confused:

This is how the sim looks in DX9 right now, the simplest of all possible renders. The final version will look better with DX9, but DX11 will offer the best visuals.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=125267&postcount=19

[WTE_Galway]

You can do DirectX under wine with some tweaking.

To be honest though Linux sux as much in many areas as OSX or WinDoze despite the claims of the fanboys who learn it at university.

The only really good operating system was VMS but its been dead in the water for a few years now.

[kendo65]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=125267&postcount=19

Thanks Dano. Could'nt recall exactly where I'd read it. I also seem to remember it being mentioned in one of the external interviews that Oleg did?

again, no link I'm afraid

The basic issue here is one of sales and reaching the max audience. There is no way they will want to lose all those people that still use Win XP.

[mr71mb0]

I thought I was clear about not installing Windows, and not trolling about this ;). I make choices that I don't want to sacrifice for one god damn game, respect at least that. I hope you make choices in your life too, even if it's not about computers.

Well, I'll play to IL-2, at least it's fun, even if it's not really pretty anymore :).

Operating Systems are just tools to do a job. You use the right tool for each job. Simple, no sense blocking off a particular avenue just because of some irrational view about other O/S.

[T}{OR]

DCS A-10C Warthog was going to be released with directX 9, 10 and 11 support. Until they said that it will only support DX 9.

Call me a pessimist but I have a feeling that SoW will follow the same road...

[Feuerfalke]

You can do DirectX under wine with some tweaking.

To be honest though Linux sux as much in many areas as OSX or WinDoze despite the claims of the fanboys who learn it at university.

The only really good operating system was VMS but its been dead in the water for a few years now.

That's true. A lot of propaganda on this.

When Windows Vista was published, German ChaosComputerClub in Berlin had a weekend-summit of Europes best hackers. They were assigned to krack all common systems as quickly as possible from another computer.

I don't know the exact times and the article I bookmarked doesn't exist any more, but Apples OSX withstood about 26minutes, a Linux-based system (don't know which) 46min and Vista almost 3 hours. The funny sidenote: Vista was stated uncrackable in the given time, unless one of the hackers noted Apple's QuickTime was installed on that OS. They used the Apple-application as the weak backdoor - LOL

So, if you say Microsoft is B$ and everything else is great, it's time to upgrade from Windows 98.

[ebrain]

Operating Systems are just tools to do a job. You use the right tool for each job. Simple, no sense blocking off a particular avenue just because of some irrational view about other O/S.

Let's get the facts in my case :
Buy a second hard disk (yes, my current one is full now), buy a Windows license, install it, install and configure all the software needed to get it to run correctly (anti-shit softwares, updates that requires to reboot everytime, defragmentation, and so on).

Do you really think that is worth the cost in time and money for one game ?

Like anyone here I've known Windows too, and this is something I don't want to be pulled through anymore. Unlike you, I don't judge the other OS users. If you find Windows fine, like I did too for many years, I'm okay with that and it's only a matter of taste.

And you dare try to teach me awareness... :o

/edit for Feuerfalke :
You are not really inspired, I think you need to refill your trolling tank, don't you ? :D : http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/

[kendo65]

DCS A-10C Warthog was going to be released with directX 9, 10 and 11 support. Until they said that it will only support DX 9.

Call me a pessimist but I have a feeling that SoW will follow the same road...

You're a pessimist...:)

..that game is an open beta isn't it?

[IceFire]

DCS A-10C Warthog was going to be released with directX 9, 10 and 11 support. Until they said that it will only support DX 9.

Call me a pessimist but I have a feeling that SoW will follow the same road...

Did they say why they didn't got with the DX10 or DX11 rendering options? I know they have been working with DX9 for a long time so I can see familiarity is a huge thing (and let's be honest... A-10C DCS looks incredible anyways) but I'm wondering what happened.

I imagine it depends on what Oleg's development roadmap looks like versus what DCS had planned. Storm of War is totally new while DCS has had a few releases out with this engine and they may not want to break stuff. Just speculating.

[mr71mb0]

Let's get the facts in my case :
Buy a second hard disk (yes, my current one is full now), buy a Windows license, install it, install and configure all the software needed to get it to run correctly (anti-shit softwares, updates that requires to reboot everytime, defragmentation, and so on).

Do you really think that is worth the cost in time and money for one game ?

Like anyone here I've known Windows too, and this is something I don't want to be pulled through anymore. Unlike you, I don't judge the other OS users. If you find Windows fine, like I did too for many years, I'm okay with that and it's only a matter of taste.

And you dare try to teach me awareness... :o

/edit for Feuerfalke :
You are not really inspired, I think you need to refill your trolling tank, don't you ? :D : http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/


I think you misunderstand my point, I actually run linux on 2 of my main machines out of choice, regularly use OSX but my main rig is Windows7. The point I was trying to make is that you should use whichever OS you prefer for a particular task. Obviously when a particular piece of software will only run on a windows platform then you'll be forced down that route.

Saying you will avoid a hotly anticipated game just because you have a seemingly irrational dislike of the OS it has to run on seems a little closed minded to me.

And yes you'll need to buy a license and perhaps a new hdd to store it on, but many people will be building whole new machines just to play SOW on.

If you really have something against windows, I wouldn't be arrogant enough to presume to try and persuade you to change but windows has changed a lot over the years and if you're not familiar with Windows7 it really is a big improvement over the past. I really treat it as a gaming OS as I prefer to run Linux as my desktop.

If you are remotely into gaming you need Windows7, that's pretty much fact.

[The Kraken]

Did they say why they didn't got with the DX10 or DX11 rendering options?

I think it was as simple as the DX11 version not making it in time for the planned release. As they want to keep updating the base engine anyway with each module (if possible - although not guaranteed - even for previous releases), they decided to skip it for now.

DX10 was never on the table for DCS A10 from what I've read.

[Feuerfalke]

/edit for Feuerfalke :
You are not really inspired, I think you need to refill your trolling tank, don't you ? :D : http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/

^^THIS is exactly what I meant with keeping an open mind. I have Linux on a secondary Boot-HDD ;)

And I'm also not trying to convince other to do keep it or abandon it. If you don't want Windows that's fine with me. But please spare us with your crusader-rebel-story against the evil-M$-empire. That wasn't even funny when it had a realistic background some 15 years ago.

Do you really think that is worth the cost in time and money for one game ?

Yes. XP costs 30 Euros, takes 300MB and cost you 15 minutes for installation.

Trying to install WHINE and find workarounds for DirectX will cost you at least double the time at least for configuration. And you still don't have a programmable joystick, then.

[Feuerfalke]

Did they say why they didn't got with the DX10 or DX11 rendering options? I know they have been working with DX9 for a long time so I can see familiarity is a huge thing (and let's be honest... A-10C DCS looks incredible anyways) but I'm wondering what happened.

They wanted to release DCS:A-10C this year and it was impossible to get it all done. And DX11 was a low priority option, so they dropped in favor of other features.

SoW is a different matter, as they built a new engine based on modern technology. No need to rewrite an engine, that was built for DX10&11.

[Madfish]

ebrain, I run Win and *nix boxes, including Mac.
1. You do NOT need to defragment a Windows machine anymore since Vista. And even before that it was only of minor use if you used smarts to set up your drive correctly (partition it, *nix doesn't do it much differently).
2. You do NOT need to install anti-shit softwares unless you do sh*t. And in fact most vulnerabilities come from 3rd party software (Acrobat anyone? ;P)
3. Updates are frequent on *nix too
and before 2009 you had to do frequent reboots as well. Innovations like Ksplice are neat, yes. But Windows too has a ton of stuff that just blows away any *nix out there. You made your choice, which is fine, but if you don't want to be trolled why be a troll yourself? Comparing OS's is up to personal preference. If you don't need the Windows features that's fine - but most people out there don't need *nix features either.
Let me tell you something: I ran win boxes straight for 1 year+ without rebooting. I knew they were locked down so I didn't care for updates either. I had no problems. But of course you can be unlucky - the same can happen on *nix too though. Tons of *nix's are hackable, faster than many Windows machines actually. Same with mac.


Actually DX11 was supposed to be released for Mac and *nix but legal issues came in between. It was announced back in 2008 if I remember correctly but I doubt you'll see much of it in the near future.

So yeah, if you want to get into gaming you have 2 choices. Either install windows for less the cost of a damn TrackIR which is really overpriced for what it does (at least here in Germany) or you could wait until OpenCL really kicks in as I'm sure it'll be a great alternative and many companies will use it.

In fact we don't even know for sure if openGL / openCL won't be implemented (or do we?)
I was waiting for this game for a looong time and I'm sure they will have thought about it as a future platform if they're investing that much energy into it.


One closing remark: "Like anyone here I've known Windows too, and this is something I don't want to be pulled through anymore."
Have you ever worked on an SGI workstation? They cost about as much as a good sized car back in the days and let me tell you, they have been great and shitty at the same time. Compared to a modern Windows 7 they were horror - and MUCH much pricier than some cheapo *nix like a free Ubuntu or something. So keep in mind that products CHANGE and that you can't compare something from the stoneage to a new release. Linux get's getter all the time (well, mostly), same goes for Windows as well. Especially Windows 7 is a solid OS with great producitivity. And if you recommend others to re-fuel their trolling somewhere I might remind you that you sound more than equally biased yourself.
Really smart is if you use the best tool available when necessary. Without hatred or fanboyism. I have no problems using a Mac for leisure or some work (video editing e.g.) or Windows for Office, Adobe, general Workstation purpose in a I/O rich environment and *nix servers (let's not forget freeBSD).


@Feuerfalke I would not recommend XP anymore since it is EOL aside from the SP3 Version (which will EOL soon anyways).
So even if a Windows 7 OEM edition will cost you twice as much it is recommended to buy it since you will be able to use it 12 times as long or more.

[Feuerfalke]

@Feuerfalke I would not recommend XP anymore since it is EOL aside from the SP3 Version (which will EOL soon anyways).
So even if a Windows 7 OEM edition will cost you twice as much it is recommended to buy it since you will be able to use it 12 times as long or more.

I'd always recommend Vista/7 unless you are insisting that OS' come for free - then you go for the lowest price. ;)
And if you really just want to play a single game and do nothing else, XP will do fine.

[ebrain]

All of this is perfectly ridiculous. My first message here was really to know what's under the hood of SOW, just to know if if was worth waiting for. I had my answer. I never asked you anything else, did I ?

You are all making thoughts for me, for things that I don't think and don't say.
You do assertions from the point where your needs have to be anyone's.
You don't care what I say, and you are childish.

So please stay in your perfect little world, and forget me, because I will forget you for sure !
This is closure for me. Out.
:rolleyes:

[T}{OR]

You're a pessimist...:)

..that game is an open beta isn't it?

Generally I am an optimist, but lately, when I see what kind of games get released I tend to lean the other way. ;)

Yes, an open beta.


Did they say why they didn't got with the DX10 or DX11 rendering options? I know they have been working with DX9 for a long time so I can see familiarity is a huge thing (and let's be honest... A-10C DCS looks incredible anyways) but I'm wondering what happened.

I imagine it depends on what Oleg's development roadmap looks like versus what DCS had planned. Storm of War is totally new while DCS has had a few releases out with this engine and they may not want to break stuff. Just speculating.

My thoughts exactly. But, we still have to see a DirectX 11 SoW shot, don't we?

I do hope I am wrong though.


I think it was as simple as the DX11 version not making it in time for the planned release. As they want to keep updating the base engine anyway with each module (if possible - although not guaranteed - even for previous releases), they decided to skip it for now.

DX10 was never on the table for DCS A10 from what I've read.

IIRC I have read that they planned for DX 10 and 11. But I can't find the source now.

[Madfish]

All of this is perfectly ridiculous. My first message here was really to know what's under the hood of SOW, just to know if if was worth waiting for. I had my answer. I never asked you anything else, did I ?

You are all making thoughts for me, for things that I don't think and don't say.
You do assertions from the point where your needs have to be anyone's.
You don't care what I say, and you are childish.

So please stay in your perfect little world, and forget me, because I will forget you for sure !
This is closure for me. Out.
:rolleyes:

When you step into the public and ask the general audience for opinions you have to expect a broad variety of answers as well. You've made 5 posts and many of them seem to be kind of... rude.

If you don't want to hear the rough guesses of clueless people like us, why post in the first place? We are not developers and if you want to hear it from them send them an e-mail. You probably know how to do that, right? :P

This is not a hotline where you ask a support employee and get a guaranteed answer. It eventually seemed to many of us that you didn't know this simple fact.
But obviously we are not allowed to talk to you and you better wait for an official to answer your "support ticket" for a non existing game. ;P

Of course we have to put up with your, "perfectly ridiculous", false claims as well. Next time you tell us we have to ask you for permission to speak on an open forum first, to ensure you only get the results you want while insulting everyone else and stating things that are everything but correct.
So much for making thoughts for you - I can guarantee you that most of us are rather tolerant and nice people and many probably wish they made your thoughts for you, since to me it is rather obvious that you didn't put much thought into your postings to begin with. :p



But anyways, since he's out he's out. I still hope that openGL / openCL is in. I'm not a programmer but I have the feeling that the openGL tweaks of IL-2 were eventually easier to implement because of it's open documentation? Switching to openGL certainly boosted my graphics in IL-2 at least.
I also imagine that with openGL the game could be ported to other OS's easier and thus increase the playerbase, even if it's just by a margin.
Eventually I just like the touch of OpenGL/CL and there is no reason to include it and the modding community could have done with direct-x as well?

[Feuerfalke]

All of this is perfectly ridiculous. My first message here was really to know what's under the hood of SOW, just to know if if was worth waiting for. I had my answer. I never asked you anything else, did I ?

And trust me, I will NEVER install a shitty OS (to my point of view at least, I don't want to troll about that) just to play one game, this is really out of question.

You're right - you didn't ask us anything else. You just made some very clear statements and so did we. What goes around comes around. Guess this wisdom works in Linux as well.

[Triggaaar]

Do you really think that is worth the cost in time and money for one game ?It depends how much enjoyment that game would give you. For me, SOW is the only game I want on my PC. I will be spending a few hundred dollars (equivellant) just on a graphics card for it. The time and effort it takes to get it working on my system will be worth it for me.

But if you need to install a new OS, just to play this game, when there are plenty of other games you'll be playing anyway, then perhaps it's not worth it for you. If however, you are just cutting your nose off to spite your face, that's not so clever.