Friday 2010-10-01 Dev. update and Discussion

[Oleg Maddox]

I promised to look for some erlier video, but there isn't recorded sound, so I wont post it.
However we did new screen shots.

[Oleg Maddox]

Here is special screen shot to show asynchronized shooting. Its some answer for these who tried to identify something like a problem by single screenshot :)

[Flanker35M]

S!

Thanks for the update Oleg :) Have a good weekend!

[No601_Swallow]

Thanks Oleg, for keeping the fantasy alive!

S!

[Freycinet]

I'll take a video without sound Oleg :-)

[Oleg Maddox]

Now Italians attacking. Notice... pilot without helmet... that is one of situations... :)
Please take in account that the letters over old surface - this is bug at the moment, that isn't eliminated. But may be we will keep it as it is (weathering of digits-letters).

[Freycinet]

Lovely clouds in the Wellington shot, btw. Spasiba for this weeks' update!

[Flying Pencil]

SUPER!!!

I CANT WAIT!

TO me, even $100 is cheap to buy this game/sim!


BTW, I need to ask you something. I hope you have space in PM.

[DB605]

Sorry for my first comment, i didn't read post before writing. I just wanted to be first to comment at least once a life lol. But great shots anyway, thanks!

[kristorf]

Very nice, good to see the Italian contribution not forgotten

Thank you

[PeterPanPan]

Thanks Oleg. Simply superb Wellington.

PPanPan

[Affe]

Thanks sir Oleg! :-P

[Hecke]

No sound? There hasn't been any sound yet and you said you wouldn't show any sound till the release. So i don't see where the problem is.

Bummer...

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Thank you for the fantastic update ! This is going to be a benchmark in combat flight simulation.

[Cobra8472]

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the great dev update;

I was wondering if you could shed some light on my question:

In previous dev updates, the aircraft in Storm of War had an most excellent lighting shader applied to them, which basically simulated the increased amount of light bounced off the surface of the aircraft at high angles.

This created kind of an "outline" effect of the aircraft (I.e. the edges of the aircrafts sillhouette was lighter), and was literally perfect in simulating this real-world complex lighting.

I'm wondering why you guys removed it? Was it due to performance constraints or is it simply undergoing tweaking and disabled in the current build?

Here's an old dev screenie which shows it off (lower wing specifically):
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2279&d=1273240832

Cheers!

[Manchenko]

It is more then game! It is more then life! It is delightful, perfectly well!

[The Kraken]

Thanks for taking the time even when you're still in the middle of the move to the new offices. Some great stuff again.

[steeldelete]

Thanks for the update. lookin very good. I like the clouds.

[Dano]

Beautiful :D

[Oleg Maddox]

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the great dev update;

I was wondering if you could shed some light on my question:

In previous dev updates, the aircraft in Storm of War had an most excellent lighting shader applied to them, which basically simulated the increased amount of light bounced off the surface of the aircraft at high angles.

This created kind of an "outline" effect of the aircraft (I.e. the edges of the aircrafts sillhouette was lighter), and was literally perfect in simulating this real-world complex lighting.

I'm wondering why you guys removed it? Was it due to performance constraints or is it simply undergoing tweaking and disabled in the current build?

Here's an old dev screenie which shows it off (lower wing specifically):
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2279&d=1273240832

Cheers!

We didn't remove it. Simply tuned more precise angles when such thing happens. And now we have not parasitic effect on the internal surfaces, like flaps, etc, that are very good visible on the shot by your link.

[zauii]

Wonderful shots , so when is it coming out xD?
Worth a price-tag of 100$ :)

[Flying Pencil]

Mr Maddox,

Please read my post, or contact me directly on PM.

real, sincere request for special project.


Thank you.

[pupaxx]

....Thanks Oleg for the weekly update...and just a word...
poor devils in their G50...I remember an anecdocte about Inspector for Fighter Werner Mölders during BoB: he visited the units in Belgium and when he saw (his words):... an anachronistic biplane coming to landing (cr42) I realized Italians were arrived!!! they dressed their flight dress with abundant newspapers under the shirts....
Cheers

[Pato Salvaje]

Thank you Oleg for these nice pics... awesome clouds.

Keep the good work! Hope we have in the market soon!

Regards

[Richie]

Oleg are those prop blades on the Italian bombers white? Is that why the prop is almost invisible?

[Ailantd]

Hi Oleg, today is my birthday. Maby not too late for that no sound video? Would be a very great git! hehehe
Anyway great progress, this is looking amazing right now. The cloud are gorgeus.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Oleg, one thing just came up in my mind: Most of the screenshots over the last months show similar weather condition (fairly good weather). To my memory, we have not yet seen bad weather, like heavily overcast, rain, thunder/lightning.....someone correct me if I am wrong.

Is this due to you still working on such bad weather? Or is just because most screenshots are maybe made in "default" weather in game ? It would be interesting to see more extreme weather.

[mr71mb0]

Thanks for the update Oleg. I would also love to see a the video even with no sound.

Many Thanks.

[Oleg Maddox]

Mr Maddox,

Please read my post, or contact me directly on PM.

real, sincere request for special project.


Thank you.
The is now space for 5 messages.

[Oleg Maddox]

Oleg, one thing just came up in my mind: Most of the screenshots over the last months show similar weather condition (fairly good weather). To my memory, we have not yet seen bad weather, like heavily overcast, rain, thunder/lightning.....someone correct me if I am wrong.

Is this due to you still working on such bad weather? Or is just because most screenshots are maybe made in "default" weather in game ? It would be interesting to see more extreme weather.

Bugs.....

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Bugs.....

Ok I understand - thanks for your answer.

[Viking]

Thank you Oleg and team!

Hope everyting OK with the move of office and hurry home to have a good weekend.


Viking

[alexmdv]

Oleg, how many bugs you've fixed...approximately?

[Thunderbolt56]

Bugs.....

Such honesty is so refreshing these days. Glad to know there's still some integrity to "get it right" before release.

Thanks for the update.

[Hecke]

To me the cloud look strange, because they're all in the same height.

[BadAim]

Bugs! Bugs! I hate bugs! (that's why I don't camp) :) Good luck with your bug squashing and code tuning campaign. The results are thus far gorgeous. I can't wait.

[E69_Nite2]

I would like to see videos "in game", pictures are cool, but one videos is better.


Thanks

[Oleg Maddox]

Oleg, how many bugs you've fixed...approximately?

hundreds... there is some that when its corrected then other new arrived due to correction.
Its normal process, especially when product and its code is very complex.
SoW code is way more complex than Il-2 code.

Just for some example.... when two games are looking similar.. or better to say two images from differen games looking similar this doesn't means that code of the product itself is similar... and then their features, possibility to increase/grow code, etc...

Hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

[Cpt_Farrel]

Great shots! Terrain seems better and better and the codeletters on the wellingtons are Grey now. Wonderful.

What's strange with all the clouds at the same level? Isn't that how it often "works" - I've seen it several times and I've only been on some 20+ flights my entire life...

[Stiboo]

Prehaps Oleg means 'BUGS' on the windscreen as a weather effect ?!! he he he....I wonder if different types of bugs and flies be modelled ?!!

But seriously folks...

great weathering on the Italian planes, the Wellington is fab-u-lous and a pilot with no helmet!

I agree, i would pay $100 for this ( but i'll pay $50 if it has to be..)


So Oleg

how many planes can we have in a mission?

Will it be blue Vs Red on the mini-map or FMB like IL2 ( and which side is which) or will there be 3 colours with the Italians showing as green maybe?

On the FMB what actions can aircraft perform at waypoints?

[alexmdv]

Yes, I understand, thank you for your reply!

And generally how much progress in bugfixing?
For ex: approximately in your opinion... 10%... 20%...

[lbuchele]

Yes ,two similar game images doesn´t mean they have similar sofisticated code,right?
Or, it´s much more difficult to program a game in a code that is complex enough to allow a lot of space for future improvement.
I have a question,Oleg.We will be able to see bomber crews walking inside the bombers or moving to shot machine guns?
I´m asking based in the beaultiful pilot bail out animations showed in video.(I know this is not important ,just asking)

[zauii]

Yes, I understand, thank you for your reply!

And generally how much progress in bugfixing?
For ex: approximately in your opinion... 10%... 20%...

As he said bugs come and go all the time, once you fix one a new one might arrive..

[Daniël]

Thank you for the update! Very nice weathering on the G.50's. The aluminium looks really like aluminium! Great:cool:
Questions: Is that a bullethole in the machinegun of the BR.20 gunner?

The cross on the tail of the G.50 looks bright white. Shouldn't it be more dirty because the rest of the plane is very much weathered?

[Blackdog_kt]

Thanks for providing another update, even during the move to new offices.

I can't believe how good the aircraft models are, i've said dozens of times that it's the best part of what we've seen and maybe we could see something else, but i can't help still getting surprised by them.

Just look at that final shot with the Wellingots where is BU-B closer to the camera. That identation on the letter B forward of the roundel is probably the chute they used to drop packages or flares, you can see the tube starting inside the fuselage and ending on the outside.
In case this didn't sink in...(puts hands around mouth) THEY HAVE MODELLED FREAKING FLARE CHUTES :grin:

Awesome details in all of the aircraft and i think that terrain is improving too in some shots.

[335th_GRExandas]

Great job Oleg, really great job...
I think that you are in the end of the beginning of a great series.
Is there a possibility to warm us up more by increasing the posts to, lets say twice a week?

[swiss]

Great pics - thanks a bunch.

But:

I WANT THAT (no-sound) VIDEO! :grin:


...pleeease.

[McHilt]

Very nice job on the G50's, well done! THX

[OSSI]

Very nice this Italy Cabriolet :)

[Hecke]

Great pics - thanks a bunch.

But:

I WANT THAT (no-sound) VIDEO! :grin:


We are used to getting no sound videos, so i don't see any problems posting them. I think nobody expected to get a sound video.


Questions:

Are there different weathering overlays on the planes? I ask becaues the weathering in the 8th screen looks the exact same on both planes.
I asked that sometime ago, can you also fly completely unweathered planes p.e. in Multiplayer Dogfight or is the normal texture already weathered?
The bullet hole in the gun in Picture 4 looks very misplaced and false.

[David603]

Oleg,

Will it be possible to create "polished metal" skins for aircraft using the beautiful metal effect that can be seen where the paint is worn away on the Fiat G.50 fighters?

Thank you

[alado]

Nice photos, as always, but not new at all, too boring always to see the same

[Freycinet]

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the great dev update;

I was wondering if you could shed some light on my question:

In previous dev updates, the aircraft in Storm of War had an most excellent lighting shader applied to them, which basically simulated the increased amount of light bounced off the surface of the aircraft at high angles.

This created kind of an "outline" effect of the aircraft (I.e. the edges of the aircrafts sillhouette was lighter), and was literally perfect in simulating this real-world complex lighting.

I'm wondering why you guys removed it? Was it due to performance constraints or is it simply undergoing tweaking and disabled in the current build?

Here's an old dev screenie which shows it off (lower wing specifically):
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2279&d=1273240832

Cheers!

We didn't remove it. Simply tuned more precise angles when such thing happens. And now we have not parasitic effect on the internal surfaces, like flaps, etc, that are very good visible on the shot by your link.



I see what you mean by those parasitic effects, the little luminous outlines of the flaps. This is so amazing: an unheard-of level of graphical complexity. Excellent!

[Tree_UK]

Hi Oleg, thanks for the update, I understand that you could not find any video footage to show us, but next week could we have just one screenshot in DX 11 and in high res, the current screenshots are nice but we haven't seen any yet in high res it would be great to see something without those awful jaggies everywhere.

P.S, you could always ask that nice young man who leaked the last video to show you how to record some footage, if he still works for you.

[zapatista]

Hi Oleg,

thanks for the new updates, planes look great

from the high altitude in the latest shots you can see denser tree cover over part of the english landscape, much more so then we have seen in the low level altitude screenshots where the vegetation/trees is sparse

question: will high end pc's, when set on max detail for BoB, be able to show the dense tree cover at low altitude as well now ?

[EV401_Wolf]

:confused: .... Only screens ?
In Scrren can't see any dateails !!!
No fly model...

The screen is easy to make... and only see good look, nothing more...

+Feb 2011

[Tree_UK]

Hi Oleg,

thanks for the new updates, planes look great

from the high altitude in the latest shots you can see denser tree cover over part of the english landscape, much more so then we have seen in the low level altitude screenshots where the vegetation/trees is sparse

question: will high end pc's, when set on max detail for BoB, be able to show the dense tree cover at low altitude as well now ?

I think Oleg is still playing tricks with us on the terrain, the terrain in these shots look like they have been painted in water colour by a child.

[csThor]

I'd really hate to be an italian in that crate. Imagine October with cold wind, rain and then an open cockpit. *brrr*

Just wondering:

In Il-2 all graphical files (i.e. GUI, aircraft textures, markings etc) were hardcoded and not accessible for players. Will SoW allow players to modify such things according to their liking (i.e. different gfx for the GUI to create a "1940-ish feeling")? With regards to the national markings this may also be a way around the issues of swastika/hakaristi that appeared with that lew law in Russia (we exchanged mails about that a while back).

[=Kike=]

Thx for update,
Only one question....I think that its not important the maximum hard that we need to play SoW with all effects.
More interesting, for me, its to know the minimum hard to move this simulator without graphics efects....¿its possible to know this?

Thx in advance and very good job!!

[pupaxx]

:confused: .... Only screens ?
In Scrren can't see any dateails !!!
No fly model...

The screen is easy to make... and only see good look, nothing more...

+Feb 2011

An italian popular saying recites: 'This is given by the convent' ...it means.. this is what we got, don't ask for nothing more than that
Ciao :-P

[smink1701]

Oleg...I've been fight an illness that I'm not comfortable going into here. There is a very good chance that I will not make it until SOW is released. I was really hoping to see some video since that may be all I get. Please reconsider and post the bloody thing.

OK...I'm in perfect health:grin: but can you post anyway???

[Feuerfalke]

I think Oleg is still playing tricks with us on the terrain, the terrain in these shots look like they have been painted in water colour by a child.

I'm impressed with the highly artistic children must know.

[Tree_UK]

I'm impressed with the highly artistic children must know.

Thanks Feuerfalke, i notice that your not disagreeing with me on this one though :grin::grin:

[ATAG_Dutch]

I think Oleg is still playing tricks with us on the terrain, the terrain in these shots look like they have been painted in water colour by a child.

This is a 'real scenery' addon for FSX, but it has no 3D trees and few buildings. A bit like google earth.
Is it possible that a similar but improved sort of add-on may be in the pipeline for SoW?
Or just that we haven't been shown the full product yet?
Or some of the 'bugs' are landscape related?

[Splitter]

Nice shots. The effort it took to get them out while finishing the move and such is much appreciated. But the best updates were the comments made by Oleg yesterday :).

Can't believe what some pilots flew into combat!

Splitter

[swiss]

This is a 'real scenery' addon for FSX, but has no 3D trees and few buildings.

has no different lightening either. sucky.

[Hunden]

Hi Oleg thanks for the update. Did not realize you could misplace a bullet hole?:confused:

[150GCT_Veltro]

I'd really hate to be an italian in that crate. Imagine October with cold wind, rain and then an open cockpit. *brrr*

Don't worry about this, it was only a their own decision. They refused the first C-200 version with closed canopy, considered a trap.
Your pilots in Spain understood that everything was changed in the air war; the italians still believed that aerobatic was the only way to fight (Cr.32.....), and off course that an open canopy whould have been better for this fight.

[Hecke]

I think Oleg is still playing tricks with us on the terrain, the terrain in these shots look like they have been painted in water colour by a child.


If that was the case, everything would be fine.
But I am sure this unfortunately is the real thing and I am not happy with it.

[150GCT_Veltro]

If that was the case, everything would be fine.
But I am sure this unfortunately is the real thing and I am not happy with it.

I'm not really impressed too with terrain textures, but we need to wait for some video to better evaluate it.

Nice pics indeed but it's time for some video and more info. I need a start engine procedure video (with sound) with a DB601 to be really impressed. We can't wait to fly an advanced Emil over the Channel.

[ATAG_Dutch]

has no different lightening either. sucky.

Yes, I know. I'm not saying it's good, in fact at less than 3000ft I think it's pretty rubbish, but it has been said that other software companies will be developing add-ons for SoW.
I was asking a question about the possibility of scenery add-ons, also whether there were bugs in the existing landscape, erm....ducky.

[=XIII=Shea]

Thanks for the brilliant screenshots,id pay 200 euro for SOW no probs,any chance of that vid oleg,even with no sound it doesnt matter to us:-P

[Tree_UK]

Im sure someone like Cannon could sort the terrain out in no time at all :grin:, his terrain for Il2 is better than what we are seeing here at this moment in time.

[=XIII=Shea]

Im sure someone like Cannon could sort the terrain out in no time at all :grin:, his terrain for Il2 is better than what we are seeing here at this moment in time.

what terrain is that,is it a mod for il2 1946?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Im sure someone like Cannon could sort the terrain out in no time at all :grin:, his terrain for Il2 is better than what we are seeing here at this moment in time.

Hmm.. I know what you mean - see 'shades of things to come' in vids section.
That map does have its own peculiarities though, and still has many of those strange IL2 woods.
I just have a feeling we're not being shown the full terrain for some reason, which is why I asked about add-ons and bugs.

[Oleg Maddox]

Some early video. Crew animation visible outside of aircraft. Glitches are present! This was recorded some couple of months ago for the test how it looks on the video (not all frames smoothly grabbed by a programm).
Here is two merged scenes. One gunner is moving from bottom to top and then side gunner moved in bottom turret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wwIzRlohpE


No more today.

And when you will ask again please remember, that said yesterday I will look is it possible or not.
I decided - not possible. Sound is one of the main reason. Second reason I see much better on computer and can't record it now...

I always see some comments even when I say some notice that is is not the things that you will see...

So the next videos we will post only when I will say I want it post.

Hope understand-able.

[Foo'bar]

Wow! :o

[Splitter]

In other words, people look at screen shots and this video and criticize them even AFTER Oleg and company have said things like "these are old" or "these are WiP".

Thank you for posting the video. I caught some cool things in it but I am sure others will pick it apart even though it is months old.

Splitter

[Richie]

I agree with the skinner :o ....wowee

[Oleg Maddox]

Dear Mr. Maddox and team,

Thanks for your nice pictures; week to week they seem much better than the ones before...

But, don´t you think such this looooong time showing us the carrot, it's time now for some exciting video (no sound ;))??? We should be very grateful...

Regards.

Read above. And never ask again. I think what I think. And I decide when its time to show something


Dislike to see sceenshots when It was almost impossible to post... ok I will not post for some time maybe.

[Flanker35M]

S!

That video was nice, some things you could pick right away :) For example the muzzle flash when top gunner fires etc. Big improvement over IL-2 there. Also gunners move slower than in IL-2, no more Terminator Snipers at turrets. SoW will be worth the wait, Be Sure! :)

[burlaff]

wow indeed...

[rakinroll]

Thanks Oleg.

[julien673]

Read above. And never ask again. I think what I think. And I decide when its time to show something


Dislike to see sceenshots when It was almost impossible to post... ok I will not post for some time maybe.

:grin: ..;)

[Ailantd]

One thing I would like to see in BOB caemras is a not perfect fixed cam in plane view, at least as an option. Not fixed cam, a bit interpolated adds a lot of realism to that kind of views. Allways fixed center aircraft in the screen looks a bit odd to me. Would be that possible in BOB?

[Oleg Maddox]

Some my thoughts

Strange people.
Said is impossible - ask to give anyway.
I post and speak to people.... again bad...
I post each week even when told that it will be hard for me...


I think would be much beter to make like others... several screenshots and advertizing video, corrected and re-rendered... or completely rendered not in engine.... That will be cool... :)

[ATAG_Dutch]

Read above. And never ask again. I think what I think. And I decide when its time to show something

Dislike to see sceenshots when It was almost impossible to post... ok I will not post for some time maybe.

Well done, everyone.:(

[Splitter]

So the owner of the company comes onto the forum, posts works in progress, gives comments on what is in the pipeline, RESPONDS to requests, and then forum members bitch that it's not enough.

Yeah, you all will flame me and call me a fanboi, but I understand Oleg's attitude. When is enough enough? How many other games in development have the top guy interacting with fans before release? I've waited for a number of games and in only one other instant have I encountered an owner who interacts with the fan base prior to release in anything similar to this fashion and HE does it on his own terms. Oleg has gone above and beyond, you all need to shut it up for a while.

And are you all STILL griping about details that none of us will see when whizzing by at 300mph?

You all are enough to make a preacher cuss. Reminds me of my ex-wife.

Splitter

[Oleg Maddox]

One thing I would like to see in BOB caemras is a not perfect fixed cam in plane view, at least as an option. Not fixed cam, a bit interpolated adds a lot of realism to that kind of views. Allways fixed center aircraft in the screen looks a bit odd to me. Would be that possible in BOB?

Currently there is two systems of view. One like in Il-2, another new.
I'm thinking how it rework a bit... the second one.... and more and more see that Il-2 system was the best really.... But in Il-2 system is impossible to control some absolutely new things..

Some "non fixed" camera is in plan. But not ready. First we should fix the bugs, then try to think about such additional for filmmakers features.

[paf]

Thanks for the update Oleg! :grin:
Those Wellington shots are amazing. This plane has such unique lines, and its wonderfully catched in your sim.

[maclean525]

Again, many thanks for the screenshots and video. Looks fantastic! Eagerly awaiting the release :)

[Ailantd]

Some my thoughts

Strange people.
Said is impossible - ask to give anyway.
I post and speak to people.... again bad...
I post each week even when told that it will be hard for me...


I think would be much beter to make like others... several screenshots and advertizing video, corrected and re-rendered... or completely rendered not in engine.... That will be cool... :)


Please, don´t be so hard with us. All we really apreciate your work and I´m sure that all of us would not change all that wip shots for a thillion re-renderer ones. This wip work is invaluable to see the REAL work advance. But yeah, also it is hard not to want more and not to want videos... and even not to want the game, wich is in fact very good to you !
I think I speak in the name of all when I say VERY VERY THANKS TO YOU for all this.

[Qpassa]

Thanks Oleg for the screenshots and extra video

[Bloblast]

Good to see that development is in the end phase!

[JG53Harti]

Some my thoughts

Strange people.
Said is impossible - ask to give anyway.
I post and speak to people.... again bad...
I post each week even when told that it will be hard for me...


I think would be much beter to make like others... several screenshots and advertizing video, corrected and re-rendered... or completely rendered not in engine.... That will be cool... :)

That is what i thought when I read some posts here !
Always everything is bad and, nevertheless, others can do everything much better.
You can never make it probably right

[mungee]

Thank you Oleg! Excellent screenshots and a very "classy" video clip!

Please try and take no notice of those who say unkind and irritating things to you - you're the "boss"!!
Fortunately they constitute a very small number when compared with those, like me, who are grateful for any form of update.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, your excellent work brings many, many hours of enjoyment to so many people - I'm sure that it must be hard to do, but please try and keep that in the forefront of your mind!

[nearmiss]

Oleg

I just bought a 1920x1200 resolution monitor 25.5 inch.

The most popular sizes now seem to be 1920 x 1080, HDTV resolutions and prices are cheaper.

Maybe you could give us a little information on how you plan for SOW work with different resolutions.

If there will be limitations in SOW for ratio in the 1080 height it would be a help to know. We can buy monitors $100-200 less with 1920x1080 resolution.

Thanks for the screenshots, looking good.

[nearmiss]

Read above. And never ask again. I think what I think. And I decide when its time to show something


Dislike to see sceenshots when It was almost impossible to post... ok I will not post for some time maybe.

Oleg,

This is very big community of users. There will always be a few bad apples in the barrel.

Everyone, loves to see the screenshots and have discussions with you.

Don't judge us by the few that are jerks.

Do as you please that will make us all happy. You have never released an addon or patch that disappointed us, that is very good.

[philip.ed]

I agree with Nearmiss. Moaning that an update is not enough is just stupid. You f*****s are lucky to get anything from Oleg. He takes the time to post an excellent update, every week, and after he has done so you ask and whine that you want a video. Of course a video will be nice, we all know that, but after one man has taken the time out of his day to post a number of shots and answer a number of questions you still whine. Well, I think it's ludicrous personally.

Oleg, are the clouds shown final? They look quite nice, but IMHO are a bit grey? Also, they still look quite cotton-ballish. I hope this makes sense. I am sure it can be a feature that will always be tweaked from release, but this is just my two pence. Have a great weekend ;)

[PhilHL]

Thank you Oleg for the pictures and the video!!!

I also really like the shiny metal material! looks very realistic :)

And the shaking crew members :) like Luthier promissed. It can be used also a bit sarcastic when you do rolls and loops just for fun ;)

Can you maybe involve us or a part of us also in developement?! or just bug finding?? Like closed beta testing.
An idea might be that you select people and you put a pc online which runs a SoW. The selected people then can access the pc over for example TeamViewer (or other limited remote controll programm) and betatest it. Every bug found will be reported to you. And you can make a contract with those betatesting guys to keep their mouth shut!

I know that security is most important for you, maybe my idea is impossible, not sure ..

I wish i could work with and for you :)

[winny]

Some my thoughts

Strange people.
Said is impossible - ask to give anyway.
I post and speak to people.... again bad...
I post each week even when told that it will be hard for me...


This forum seems to be full of people who are very quick to criticise.. For example we've all seen the close ups of the terrain and they are very detailed and look like a lot of work has been done.. everyone says ooh nice etc.. Following week we get 'the terrain looks bad' despite you already saying you had some bugs with it, edges of river etc.

They have very short memories.

I for one appreciate that it's not easy to spend 6 years of your life on something only to have someone with no idea of what's involved post some pointless information or badly thought out argument (see gun sync last week ).

Just assume that half the people on here are stupid and you'll be ok. The half that aren't will understand. If someone says something relevant I'm sure you'll spot it.

Nice update, thanks for having the balls to actually post on here!

[Viking]

Some my thoughts

Strange people.
Said is impossible - ask to give anyway.
I post and speak to people.... again bad...
I post each week even when told that it will be hard for me...


I think would be much beter to make like others... several screenshots and advertizing video, corrected and re-rendered... or completely rendered not in engine.... That will be cool... :)

Common Oleg!
We been through this since the “good ol days” of Oleg's Ready Room.
The same monkeys jumping up and down, demanding and criticizing! Do as usual, pay no attention and just keep up the good work and in the end the result will be something to smack them all in the face with.
As before!
Regards
Viking

[=XIII=Shea]

Thanks so much oleg for the extra video:):):):):):):):)

[philip.ed]

This forum seems to be full of people who are very quick to criticise.. For example we've all seen the close ups of the terrain and they are very detailed and look like a lot of work has been done.. everyone says ooh nice etc.. Following week we get 'the terrain looks bad' despite you already saying you had some bugs with it, edges of river etc.

They have very short memories.

I for one appreciate that it's not easy to spend 6 years of your life on something only to have someone with no idea of what's involved post some pointless information or badly thought out argument (see gun sync last week ).

Just assume that half the people on here are stupid and you'll be ok. The half that aren't will understand. If someone says something relevant I'm sure you'll spot it.

Nice update, thanks for having the balls to actually post on here!

Poor terrain textures is in no-way related with the river-pattern.

Anyway, I think constructive criticism is useful; but let's not split hairs over this.

Oleg, did you see my post about Defiant-rear-gunners? It's really integral to the sim, so if your e-mail is still the same, will you want me to e-mail you more info? If you don't reply, I'll take that as a no.... ;)

[nearmiss]

So the owner of the company comes onto the forum, posts works in progress, gives comments on what is in the pipeline, RESPONDS to requests, and then forum members bitch that it's not enough.

Yeah, you all will flame me and call me a fanboi, but I understand Oleg's attitude. When is enough enough? How many other games in development have the top guy interacting with fans before release? I've waited for a number of games and in only one other instant have I encountered an owner who interacts with the fan base prior to release in anything similar to this fashion and HE does it on his own terms. Oleg has gone above and beyond, you all need to shut it up for a while.

And are you all STILL griping about details that none of us will see when whizzing by at 300mph?

You all are enough to make a preacher cuss. Reminds me of my ex-wife.

Splitter

1+

[Old_Canuck]

So the owner of the company comes onto the forum, posts works in progress, gives comments on what is in the pipeline, RESPONDS to requests, and then forum members bitch that it's not enough.

Yeah, you all will flame me and call me a fanboi, but I understand Oleg's attitude. When is enough enough? How many other games in development have the top guy interacting with fans before release? I've waited for a number of games and in only one other instant have I encountered an owner who interacts with the fan base prior to release in anything similar to this fashion and HE does it on his own terms. Oleg has gone above and beyond, you all need to shut it up for a while.

And are you all STILL griping about details that none of us will see when whizzing by at 300mph?

Totally agree. I often wonder if some to these unreasonable and persistent whiners are just trolls from the old days who have more experience now but their goal is the same: harass and annoy Oleg Maddox until he walks away from the community.

You all are enough to make a preacher cuss. Reminds me of my ex-wife.

Splitter

Totally agree. I often wonder if some of these unreasonable and persistent whiners are just trolls from the old days who have more experience now but their goal is the same: harass and annoy Oleg Maddox until he walks away from the community.

[winny]

I agree with Nearmiss. Moaning that an update is not enough is just stupid. You f*****s are lucky to get anything from Oleg. He takes the time to post an excellent update, every week, and after he has done so you ask and whine that you want a video. Of course a video will be nice, we all know that, but after one man has taken the time out of his day to post a number of shots and answer a number of questions you still whine. Well, I think it's ludicrous personally.

Oleg, are the clouds shown final? They look quite nice, but IMHO are a bit grey? Also, they still look quite cotton-ballish. I hope this makes sense. I am sure it can be a feature that will always be tweaked from release, but this is just my two pence. Have a great weekend ;)

Really?
You say all that then tell a grown man that the clouds are too grey? Come on, the guy knows what clouds look like. I'm looking out of my window at grey clouds.. who do I tell?

[philip.ed]

Really?
You say all that then tell a grown man that the clouds are too grey? Come on, the guy knows what clouds look like. I'm looking out of my window at grey clouds.. who do I tell?

What was the weather like at this point in the BoB? :rolleyes:
Even if they were rain clouds, they just wouldn't look like that. My point is, they don't look like any clouds I have ever seen in Britain. You can argue all you want, but they just aren't 2010 standard (as far as the screenshots tell). Of course, as Oleg said, these could be old shots etc
But look at the work of REX or even the new DCS game and the clouds there look better IMHO.
This is just constructive criticism; I'm not whining about it as I said that these features can be changed later. It won't put me off buying the game, but it'd be nice for photo-relastic clouds and terrain. I'm sure it could be achieved in the game.

[JG52Uther]

Thank you Oleg for taking the time to post updates here.99.99% of people are very happy with this be sure!

[swiss]

Oleg,
I begged for a video(you shouldn't have mentioned it, lol) - and we really got one.


Thank you, Sir! http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/military/p0204.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/p-military.php?page=1)

Considering the never ever happy cry babies:

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0905/you-you-stfu-military-funny-pointing-demotivational-poster-1243745077.jpg

[Fafnir_6]

Some early video. Crew animation visible outside of aircraft. Glitches are present! This was recorded some couple of months ago for the test how it looks on the video (not all frames smoothly grabbed by a programm).
Here is two merged scenes. One gunner is moving from bottom to top and then side gunner moved in bottom turret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wwIzRlohpE


No more today.

And when you will ask again please remember, that said yesterday I will look is it possible or not.
I decided - not possible. Sound is one of the main reason. Second reason I see much better on computer and can't record it now...

I always see some comments even when I say some notice that is is not the things that you will see...

So the next videos we will post only when I will say I want it post.

Hope understand-able.

Sweet vid! It is nice to see the Italians make an appearance as well (the G.50 is a fun ride in IL-2 - I have flown it a fair bit). Please take all the time you need to get the sounds done right. I'm sure everyone will be suitably impressed when you decide a video with sound is postable. I always look forward to your updates and I hope that you will continue to post them. Fridays are awesome to start with, but Fridays + SoW updates are even better!

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[winny]

What was the weather like at this point in the BoB? :rolleyes:
Even if they were rain clouds, they just wouldn't look like that. My point is, they don't look like any clouds I have ever seen in Britain. You can argue all you want, but they just aren't 2010 standard (as far as the screenshots tell). Of course, as Oleg said, these could be old shots etc
But look at the work of REX or even the new DCS game and the clouds there look better IMHO.
This is just constructive criticism; I'm not whining about it as I said that these features can be changed later. It won't put me off buying the game, but it'd be nice for photo-relastic clouds and terrain. I'm sure it could be achieved in the game.

You said they were too grey. Not unrealistic. And yes we don't know what time of year/day, weather conditions etc are set (more reason for you not to comment) I never said you were whining, just opining on something when you don't have all the relevant info.
Oleg's been in this industry for 20 plus years, what makes you think he doesn't know what he's doing?

[kedrednael]

Really?
You say all that then tell a grown man that the clouds are too grey? Come on, the guy knows what clouds look like. I'm looking out of my window at grey clouds.. who do I tell?

The clouds you see are grey because you are looking at them from beneith, they cast shadow on themselfs. On the top clouds are whiter, If there are no high clouds.
The top of the clouds shown here look great! they look like activly growing, sun bathing cumules clouds :) at least in the first shot with the Wellington (my new screensaver) But maybe the clouds also should be more white on the sides facing the sun. I think it is really nice to see some clouds again.

some normal cumules clouds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD2XYeZppHE
Of course these clouds are impossible to make in a video game, in 2010. But the tops of the clouds shown in the screenshot from the wellington today look extremely realistic.

I didn't know the AI was able to move to different places in the plane :cool: I didn't even think about it.
In the video the bullet holes look a lot more realistic than I thought they would look. :-) It are bullet holes right?
Nice update.

BTW, if you look at the terrain in this real life video at 0:30 when you see the ground best. you will notice that you can see almost no difference in colours there, even less detail in the ground as you see in the SOW pictures. That's not because in this video you see forest and in SOW you see countrysides.

[infirebaptize]

Don't judge us by the few that are jerks.

I don't know the guy but he apologized for it, there is no reason to call him names. He was asking for more materials and there is nothing wrong with that. Stop the smoke blowing, we are paying for this game :!:

[Romanator21]

Anyway, I think constructive criticism is useful; but let's not split hairs over this.


Constructive criticism is not "The terrain sucks, looks like a watercolor, looks worse than 1946, the terrain has poor resolution, this effect is not up to standards"

The fact is that we're seeing the highest resolution terrain in a sim to date, with houses and trees added painstakingly by hand. Maybe you and I and other and Oleg don't agree about the colors, but that's no reason to bash someone's years of work to say that a child could have done better. Your computer probably won't run the game at all due to its sheer complexity, and the clouds are too grey.

I agree with Nearmiss. Moaning that an update is not enough is just stupid. You f*****s are lucky to get anything from Oleg. He takes the time to post an excellent update, every week, and after he has done so you ask and whine that you want a video. Of course a video will be nice, we all know that, but after one man has taken the time out of his day to post a number of shots and answer a number of questions you still whine. Well, I think it's ludicrous personally.

Oleg, are the clouds shown final? They look quite nice, but IMHO are a bit grey? Also, they still look quite cotton-ballish. I hope this makes sense. I am sure it can be a feature that will always be tweaked from release, but this is just my two pence. Have a great weekend

This is the funniest thing I've seen all day.

Oh yeah, those "f---ers" and whiners ruining it for everyone else...

And then your second paragraph.

Tell me, did you do this on purpose to be funny? Tell me you did, because if you were serious...


Of course, we can all just point our fat fingers at the other guy for making Oleg (and maybe even his team members) upset with us. We can excuse ourselves right away with "my post was before your post" etc.

Everyone here should be pointing their snotty fingers at themselves.

I'm guilty of it too, but just listen to us experts:

To me the cloud look strange


The screen is easy to make... and only see good look, nothing more..

I am not happy with it.

Nice photos, as always, but not new at all, too boring always to see the same

Is there a possibility to warm us up more by increasing the posts to, lets say twice a week?

I WANT THAT (no-sound) VIDEO!

Yep, at this project level, maybe one video should be more appropriate...

And my favorite

I'm sure someone like Cannon could sort the terrain out in no time at all, his terrain for Il2 is better than what we are seeing here at this moment in time.

and

The terrain in these shots look like they have been painted in water colour by a child.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner.

Remember people, Oleg and team are not required to show us anything, they don't owe us anything. SoW could have been developed under covers without a single screen-shot posted.

Oleg said this week that he couldn't post a screen-shot because that would mean compiling the code and other things - too difficult because of the move. Well, he posts a screen shot anyway. He only said he might consider posting a video, and that nothing was promised. He posts a video anyway.

At least take the time to punch out a "Thank You".



So, thanks Oleg and team for all your posts and patience with all of us. Have a good week, good luck sorting out the move.

BTW, the screen-shots and video look great this week (and I sincerely mean it). Too many good things to say. (lighting, crew animation, paint flakes, bare aluminum, clouds in 5th pic look awesome - just as they should, etc....)

[philip.ed]

You said they were too grey. Not unrealistic. And yes we don't know what time of year/day, weather conditions etc are set (more reason for you not to comment) I never said you were whining, just opining on something when you don't have all the relevant info.
Oleg's been in this industry for 20 plus years, what makes you think he doesn't know what he's doing?

I think he knows what he's doing, but mistakes were made in Il-2 and the clouds here don't look realistic. The greyness of this justn't isn't representative of clouds. If clouds carry rain, they will not necessarily have the same colour all over. The clouds here look like that to me.
Is just my observation mate ;)


@Romanator; my posted was directed at those whining for videos. Since when did I do that mate? And you're wrong. These textures are not high-res. The buildings and objects are, but not the actual field textures. So you are wrong. I never said the terrain looked like watercolour....

[brando]

What was the weather like at this point in the BoB? :rolleyes:
Even if they were rain clouds, they just wouldn't look like that. My point is, they don't look like any clouds I have ever seen in Britain. You can argue all you want, but they just aren't 2010 standard (as far as the screenshots tell). Of course, as Oleg said, these could be old shots etc
But look at the work of REX or even the new DCS game and the clouds there look better IMHO.
This is just constructive criticism; I'm not whining about it as I said that these features can be changed later. It won't put me off buying the game, but it'd be nice for photo-relastic clouds and terrain. I'm sure it could be achieved in the game.

I live on the South coast of England and I see clouds as shown all the time. That's in the context of the ever changing skyscape that is real life. Once again this seems to be an attempt to analyse conditions through a frozen instant of time rather than waiting to see the unfolding scenario in realtime from your seat in your chosen plane. I'd prefer to wait until that comes around.

Anyway, comfort yourself by looking at shot #5 - notice that every cloud has a silver lining ;)

brando

[PeterPanPan]

+1 Romanator. Well said. I just hope we haven't pushed Oleg too far this time.

And just add my voice to this, most of us here SINCERELY appreciate the efforts Oleg and team go to to keep us informed during the development phase. I for one would be really upset if this privilege was taken away from us.

PPanPan

[Romanator21]

this is a commercial product, we are going to pay for it and we have the rights to ask...

It's a computer program, not a made-to-order sandwich bar.

[proton45]

Thanks for the up-dates Oleg....

The sim is just looking better and better...I'm glad you took the time to post the screen shots.

And thanks for the video...I really enjoyed the peek into the crew animations.

[swiss]

I think he knows what he's doing, but mistakes were made in Il-2 and the clouds here don't look realistic. The greyness of this justn't isn't representative of clouds. If clouds carry rain, they will not necessarily have the same colour all over. The clouds here look like that to me.
Is just my observation mate ;)


And I thought you were joking. :rolleyes:

[philip.ed]

I live on the South coast of England and I see clouds as shown all the time. That's in the context of the ever changing skyscape that is real life. Once again this seems to be an attempt to analyse conditions through a frozen instant of time rather than waiting to see the unfolding scenario in realtime from your seat in your chosen plane. I'd prefer to wait until that comes around.

Anyway, comfort yourself by looking at shot #5 - notice that every cloud has a silver lining ;)

brando

I can see what you mean. But it's hard to point out; there will be places in clouds like this that are whiter in relation to the darker areas and then there will be the dark areas which carry rain; in particular the dark bottoms of the cloud (which have been missing from any updates shown).
Anyway, it's just my observation. I too live in England, but have yet to see this type of uniform quality shown in every cloud in one area of sky ;)

[philip.ed]

And I thought you were joking. :rolleyes:

You thought wrong :rolleyes: Don't make a habit of it.

[smink1701]

Mr. Oleg,

The good news: You and your team have an incredible following.

The bad news: You and your team have an incredible following.

We are all obsessed with SOW and are having a hard time being patient. I paid $2,300 for a new computer in anticipation of running this game. OK, I needed a new computer anyway. Take all these semi-insane posts as a compliment and thanks for the video. My doctor called and he said I'm going to live. Bless you.

[kedrednael]

What was the weather like at this point in the BoB? :rolleyes:
Even if they were rain clouds, they just wouldn't look like that. My point is, they don't look like any clouds I have ever seen in Britain. You can argue all you want, but they just aren't 2010 standard (as far as the screenshots tell). Of course, as Oleg said, these could be old shots etc
But look at the work of REX or even the new DCS game and the clouds there look better IMHO.
This is just constructive criticism; I'm not whining about it as I said that these features can be changed later. It won't put me off buying the game, but it'd be nice for photo-relastic clouds and terrain. I'm sure it could be achieved in the game.


REX's clouds are 100% sure a lot less good than we just saw in the screens, and the clouds from DCS A10indeed look good, but those are finished and we didn't see them up close and HD like we did here. And the SOW clouds are still WiP I think. saying REX looks better blablabla isn't really constructive :rolleyes: The clouds from REX have have large tga texture files and only have a couple of particles per cloud, they are verry 2D. The SOW clouds are almost fully volumetric, so they can't have that big textures.

[Hatch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HcXDO_IQM&feature=related

Some nice shots of terrain as well.

One of the first thing you learn when taking up photography: Your mind plays tricks on you.
So what you "see" is quite often not what you get.

Now combine all screenshots and update's from say the last year ......
extrapolate abit ......:grin:

[Friendly_flyer]

Wohoooo! They have changed the default colouring for the British markings! Thanks Oleg!

[Letum]

Thankyou Oleg!

Please ignore the people with their ears closed. They do not matter.

[MD_Titus]

first off, thanks for the update oleg, looking fantastic. particularly liking the implication that you can knock out the guns, not just gunners.
and you make an interesting allusion to the pilots helmets, or lack of them, having some effect...
good luck with the move, and thank you for your continnued posting of updates. i've been to many other game forums and the level of involvement from developers is usually near zero, occasionally some paid mouthpiece will make an appearance, but never the guy who is actually in charge of the operation.



people would do well to consider this when making demands. we don't have a right to anything whatsoever, and in the software industry weekly updates and discussion with the developer are rarer than hen's teeth being found in rocking horse sh*t.

Oleg,

Will it be possible to create "polished metal" skins for aircraft using the beautiful metal effect that can be seen where the paint is worn away on the Fiat G.50 fighters?

Thank you
i believe i have seen early screen of a bare metal spit, with a highly polished effect to it. it looked very shiny...
If that was the case, everything would be fine.
But I am sure this unfortunately is the real thing and I am not happy with it.
you are a whiny ingrate who has very little positive to say. 6 year olds that behaved like you would get a slapped backside.
I'm not really impressed too with terrain textures, but we need to wait for some video to better evaluate it.

Nice pics indeed but it's time for some video and more info. I need a start engine procedure video (with sound) with a DB601 to be really impressed. We can't wait to fly an advanced Emil over the Channel.
1. who cares if you're impressed or not.
2. you need. don't dare to ascribe others with your same ill manners.
3. that will come when it is time, and i don't believe you are the one with the development schedule in your hand are you.
4. you'll get that when you buy the game.
Im sure someone like Cannon could sort the terrain out in no time at all :grin:, his terrain for Il2 is better than what we are seeing here at this moment in time.
hahahahahah yeah. right. have you seen some of the airfields on the french side of the channel? calling them low res would be being very complementary.
Hmm.. I know what you mean - see 'shades of things to come' in vids section.
That map does have its own peculiarities though, and still has many of those strange IL2 woods.
I just have a feeling we're not being shown the full terrain for some reason, which is why I asked about add-ons and bugs.
because it's meant to be a teaser, a work in progress, not a collection of screenshots for the back of the box.
Some early video. Crew animation visible outside of aircraft. Glitches are present! This was recorded some couple of months ago for the test how it looks on the video (not all frames smoothly grabbed by a programm).
Here is two merged scenes. One gunner is moving from bottom to top and then side gunner moved in bottom turret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wwIzRlohpE


No more today.

And when you will ask again please remember, that said yesterday I will look is it possible or not.
I decided - not possible. Sound is one of the main reason. Second reason I see much better on computer and can't record it now...

I always see some comments even when I say some notice that is is not the things that you will see...

So the next videos we will post only when I will say I want it post.

Hope understand-able.
thank you oleg. how you maintain your patience is a mystery.
In other words, people look at screen shots and this video and criticize them even AFTER Oleg and company have said things like "these are old" or "these are WiP".

Thank you for posting the video. I caught some cool things in it but I am sure others will pick it apart even though it is months old.

Splitter
+1
Some my thoughts

Strange people.
Said is impossible - ask to give anyway.
I post and speak to people.... again bad...
I post each week even when told that it will be hard for me...


I think would be much beter to make like others... several screenshots and advertizing video, corrected and re-rendered... or completely rendered not in engine.... That will be cool... :)
indeed. they confuse wip shots with finished advertising shots.
Currently there is two systems of view. One like in Il-2, another new.
I'm thinking how it rework a bit... the second one.... and more and more see that Il-2 system was the best really.... But in Il-2 system is impossible to control some absolutely new things..

Some "non fixed" camera is in plan. But not ready. First we should fix the bugs, then try to think about such additional for filmmakers features.
i had been wondering about this. il2 has, in my view, the best external view system i've come across. it makes the game something easy to get into, and means you can appreciate the effort gone into the visuals.
Bad apples..?? Jerks???... ups, I think some of you guys are doing a mountain (big one...) with all this. So we can not ask for videos, what is clear after Mr. Maddox answer to my post, but you can insult some of us just for doing this?? And one moderator... astonished...

This is only my personal opinion; of course I am grateful to Mr. Maddox and the team for showing us this fantastic product development, but please do not miss the focus: this is a commercial product, we are going to pay for it and we have the rights to ask (always in a polite and constructive way, as some of us use to do), for some more information related to the sim. And of course, you have the right to answer or not.

But please, do not critizise for doing this... and much worse to insult others, like you are doing in your post. Respect other opinions.

Thanks.
1. should be the first thing that you say tbh.
2. no, no you don't. go visit some other fora, see the lists of topics complaining that the devs don't communicate, then come back and read through here and try to understand why we are lucky and how we could ruin a good thing.
Constructive criticism is not "The terrain sucks, looks like a watercolor, looks worse than 1946, the terrain has poor resolution, this effect is not up to standards"

The fact is that we're seeing the highest resolution terrain in a sim to date, with houses and trees added painstakingly by hand. Maybe you and I and other and Oleg don't agree about the colors, but that's no reason to bash someone's years of work to say that a child could have done better. Your computer probably won't run the game at all due to its sheer complexity, and the clouds are too grey.

Remember people, Oleg and team are not required to show us anything, they don't owe us anything. SoW could have been developed under covers without a single screen-shot posted.

Oleg said this week that he couldn't post a screen-shot because that would mean compiling the code and other things - too difficult because of the move. Well, he posts a screen shot anyway. He only said he might consider posting a video, and that nothing was promised. He posts a video anyway.

At least take the time to punch out a "Thank You".

So, thanks Oleg and team for all your posts and patience with all of us. Have a good week, good luck sorting out the move.

BTW, the screen-shots and video look great this week (and I sincerely mean it). Too many good things to say. (lighting, crew animation, paint flakes, bare aluminum, clouds in 5th pic look awesome - just as they should, etc....)
+many
It's a computer program, not a made-to-order sandwich bar.
it isn't?!?!?!?!1!!?
And I thought you were joking. :rolleyes:
you've been around long enough to know that when you think "is he joking?"...

he isn't.:rolleyes:

[Splitter]

It's a computer program, not a made-to-order sandwich bar.

ROFL, exactly.

I'm paying $50 for this game so I get a say in it? Not likely.

I totally agree that giving helpful information to the development team is good for them as it probably saves them some research time. But, saying "that isn't up to 2010 standards" does nothing helpful for anyone (except maybe making the person doing the criticizing feel superior in some way).

However, feeling that because you plan to pay $50 for the game you are owed a certain change being made or a further insight into the game as it stands in Moscow today...well that's just silly and an example of an over inflated view of the worth of one's opinion.

Isn't it obvious to anyone else that we often get screen shots for what they are working on at the moment? And because what they are working on at the moment may not be compatible with something they have done in another area in the past, other aspects (like terrain, lighting, clouds, etc.) appear more rudimentary than they have in past screen shots? Isn't it strange to anyone else that in some past screen shots the terrain looks better than it does in some more recent screen shots? Do you actually think they are regressing? No, they are highlighting a certain aspect for this week.

For goodness sakes, READ the entire thread before spouting your opinion. You DO owe that to the rest of the community. How many times do we see a criticism on an item that has already been EXPLAINED by Oleg or Luthier in a previous post? They just haven't tied the "good terrain" to the "good lighting" (or whatever)...yet.

Lastly, and I promise to end this rant (ungrateful SOB's with feelings of entitlement grate my nerves, sorry), how stupid would it be for Oleg to throw all of his cards on the table for the competition to see? How dumb would it be for him to hold nothing back for the "great unveiling"? I dunno about you, but the gals I dated never showed up to a first date naked....a little mystery can be a good thing.

(ok, there was this one time that this gal...oh, never mind)

Splitter

[philip.ed]

REX's clouds are 100% sure a lot less good than we just saw in the screens, and the clouds from DCS A10indeed look good, but those are finished and we didn't see them up close and HD like we did here. And the SOW clouds are still WiP I think. saying REX looks better blablabla isn't really constructive :rolleyes: The clouds from REX have have large tga texture files and only have a couple of particles per cloud, they are verry 2D. The SOW clouds are almost fully volumetric, so they can't have that big textures.

A good point there about REX. However, REX does 'look right', if you get my drift. As I have said before, from the video leeked a few months ago showing the spit in the clouds, the clouds there seemed to 'react' amazingly. If their look could just be nailed then it would be awesome. Currently, these clouds just don't look realistic as they don't have flat bottoms or any characterisitics that one would associate with clouds. Colour is a different issue. Perhaps I was wrong to mention that in my original post, but it was just my immediate observation. Perhaps putting it into the BoB context was wrong, as obviously the shots could come from QMB.

And to all, why do you care so much what I say? It was just my observation to Oleg. You may not care about the colour of A/C lettering, but posts by forum members were noticed and now shots have been posted showing the grey lettering. The same goes for knit-picking details about the A/C. I have waited for a 'cinematic' game for years, and I just think that in some categories the shots aren't showing that. I know everything is WIP, but if everyone said it was perfect that's just false hope. Many details in the game have been rectified due to forum comments, so all I wanted was for Oleg to answer a question I have had, since the first shots were posted, about clouds. It's an important part of the sim for me. It may not be for you, but that's your business. Pick apart people's posts. Your just wasting your time. Put me on ignore if you care so much. It won't stop me from posting what I think. Why? because I don't care what you all think as you are just virtual people. You aren't talking to me face-to-face, so don't try and pretend that you know what I am thinking, or indeed feel that I need to explain myself to you. I have no beef with anyone, but getting flame for posting an obersavtion is damned silly. I wasn't even whining; my post just got blown way our of proportion. So stop picking apart people's posts and get a life. If you have the time in your day to that then clearly you need this game to come out...

[MD_Titus]

I dunno about you, but the gals I dated never showed up to a first date naked....a little mystery can be a good thing.

(ok, there was this one time that this gal...oh, never mind)

Splitter

and that's their first mistake!

[Tree_UK]

It was me who said the the Terrain looked bad, i said it looked like a child has painted it. Someone tell me that it doesn't, I can only say what i see. No offence to anyone of course.

[zauii]

It was me who said the the Terrain looked bad, i said it looked like a child has painted it. Someone tell me that it doesn't, I can only say what i see. No offence to anyone of course.

Okey so, you're ugly and I can only say what i see, but don't be offended.
Good logic.

[dali]

why do italian pilots have bigger heads than hurri pilots?





:D

[philip.ed]

Okey so, you're ugly and I can only say what i see, but don't be offended.
Good logic.

Except you can't see Tree, so great observation...

It's just plain childish. That's the kind of thing I'd have said in primary school.

[Tree_UK]

Okey so, you're ugly and I can only say what i see, but don't be offended.
Good logic.

Im not offended, because you haven't seen me, I have seen the terrain and so have you, thats why your attacking me rather than defend the terrain, because at the moment it doesn't look good from high altitude. I dont think anyone can argue with that.

[Rall]

Thanks for the update Oleg :grin:

[AWL_Spinner]

Enough about REX clouds already. They look awesome as a backdrop to a static screenshot, undoubtedly, but look bloody awful if you try flying around them and through them (that's not a criticism of REX, which is a wonderful product, but an acknowledgement of the limitations of the FSX engine which simply cannot deliver a decent volumetric cloud experience). REX is essentially a 2D photo library of beautiful clouds and NOT what I would wish to see in something like SoW.

Very impressed with the first cloud shot of the SoW Wellington, the first time we've seen something approaching an overcast (although I see in a later image that was a limited patch of cloud).

Looking forward to seeing more where that came from. Overcast, drizzle and fog please!

Cheers, Spinner

[Splitter]

It was me who said the the Terrain looked bad, i said it looked like a child has painted it. Someone tell me that it doesn't, I can only say what i see. No offence to anyone of course.

I don't agree with your characterization of the terrain. There are past screen shots where it has looked better, I will give you that.

I guess it would be more accurate to say that you, among others, have an tendency to post without any tact. There are MUCH better ways of saying what you said. More constructive and less confrontational.

Let's face it, you are in several "I told you so" arguments with others on this board. I think you are looking for opportunities to rub their faces in any flaws and that leads to these tactless postings.

Lack of tact and feelings of entitlement seem to me to be what lead Oleg to his last comments....so how well did they work?

Splitter

[proton45]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wwIzRlohpE


Its kind of a small detail...but I really like how the pilots move forward and back (in their seats) as the aeroplane pitches forward.

[Tree_UK]

Im not being confrontational im just being honest, I think Oleg would rather hear that than all the wows, whoops, fantastics and cheering. The terrain doesn't look good, at this time, feel free to disagree with me on this subject.

[philip.ed]

Enough about REX clouds already. They look awesome as a backdrop to a static screenshot, undoubtedly, but look bloody awful if you try flying around them and through them (that's not a criticism of REX, which is a wonderful product, but an acknowledgement of the limitations of the FSX engine which simply cannot deliver a decent volumetric cloud experience). REX is essentially a 2D photo library of beautiful clouds and NOT what I would wish to see in something like SoW.

Very impressed with the first cloud shot of the SoW Wellington, the first time we've seen something approaching an overcast (although I see in a later image that was a limited patch of cloud).

Looking forward to seeing more where that came from. Overcast, drizzle and fog please!

Cheers, Spinner

No I agree. But ReX just looks realistic, doesn't it? I think it could be achieved for 3D clouds, but we'll see.

[ATAG_Dutch]

because it's meant to be a teaser, a work in progress, not a collection of screenshots for the back of the box.

I know, and I wasn't complaining either.
I was attempting to politely point out to Tree that there's probably a very good reason why we maybe haven't been shown the full terrain.
In earlier update posts I've also pointed out that I'd be more than happy if this was the final result.
I don't have any gripe at all my friend, so stop being so hasty. Thanks.:)

[Tree_UK]

Some people need to be reminded that this is a thread for discussion of screenshots, I think the terrain looks bad, now try and discuss without getting personal.

[Splitter]

Im not being confrontational im just being honest....

So when your lady asks, "Do these pants make my backside look fat?", what do you say? lol. "It's not the pants...." is a bad idea, trust me.

Splitter

[Tree_UK]

So when your lady asks, "Do these pants make my backside look fat?", what do you say? lol. "It's not the pants...." is a bad idea, trust me.

Splitter

:grin::grin:

[philip.ed]

Saves her making the same mistake twice... :-P

[Jumo211]

Thank you Oleg for new update , everything is coming alone very nicely :cool:

Please , I would like to ask four questions as some other guys probably would
also like to know , if some similar IL-2 stuff graphics was carried over to the
BoB:SoW so we can know what to expect :

1. is the aircraft fuel leak effects in 2D with also some of the aircraft damage smokes in 2D ?

2. are clouds going to pop out suddenly from distance ?

3. is there color flickering with clouds ( dark/bright ) when looking at them from various angles ?

4. is there clouds jerking movement when flying around them as it is happening in IL-2 ?

Thank you so much , very appreciate that :-)

[AWL_Spinner]

No I agree. But ReX just looks realistic, doesn't it? I think it could be achieved for 3D clouds, but we'll see.


Well yes, it looks realistic because it's photographs of real clouds :)

Although the library is large, you do see the same clouds (in 2D plates!) again and again and...

I would be delighted if 3D volumetric clouds looked that good, but I'd settle for any sort of 3D volumetric cloud that formed part of a dynamic, moving, shifting weather engine (and what we've seen in terms of lighting at least so far looks great, I just want to see more types of weather).

Weather is one of the great pillars of immersion, for me. Some of the most evocative bits of all those great WWII books are weather related, whether it's pilots like Clostermann or Wellum dancing around the clouds in their Spitfires, or Gibson easing in and out of the channel murk and mist in a Beaufighter or Lancaster.

Summers days and fluffy cumulus are all very well, but I want to chase Ju88s through the mist and clag of a blustery autumn dawn with 500ft ceilings :)

[PeterPanPan]

you'r a a whiny little bitch Tree, and also a coward


OK, now that's enough. I frankly don't care who started it, but can you two please try and sort this out. This poisenous banter between you two needs to stop. I'm really tired of seeing it and I'm sure Oleg is too. If you feel so enraged, please please try and take it out somewhere else, and not here.

PPanPan

[IceFire]

Some my thoughts

Strange people.
Said is impossible - ask to give anyway.
I post and speak to people.... again bad...
I post each week even when told that it will be hard for me...


I think would be much beter to make like others... several screenshots and advertizing video, corrected and re-rendered... or completely rendered not in engine.... That will be cool... :)

They can't help it :) There will always be some "special" folks out there :)

The rest of us... the silent majority enjoy the Friday updates and the really nice screen shots. Good enough to use as desktop wall paper. Whatever pictures you'd like to show us... show. Most of us appreciate the efforts and the work involved.

[McHilt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wwIzRlohpE


Its kind of a small detail...but I really like how the pilots move forward and back (in their seats) as the aeroplane pitches forward.

Now that's incredible... like that soooo much :o

***OT: Having read this thread I think people should be happy with what they get from Oleg and stop complaining... too many childish impatient and spoiled folks around at times. Sorry to say that. :(
I don't wanna sound negative so I'll refrain
Don't feel free to quote me on this as it's not my intention to spoil this thread as some parts of it already are***


Love the updates as always... thx a lot Oleg and crew ;)

[zapatista]

Yeah we know all that, but what about the terrain?

the only general comments as "constructive feedback" about the most recent glimpses we get from the high altitude shots just seen, is that imo the current color pallet is to pastel and soft in tones (which is easy to fix and i am sure oleg and Co are aware off)

what DOES look good about it is much more interesting, scenery density looks about right (forest cover etc, rather then sparing use of trees with no hedges by roads and fields etc, as seen in some recent low alt shots), the terrain contour of the recent shots also looks good (something we havnt seen much of so far)

and what you are missing in all this is that the shots are from a mission in progress with multiple planes in the air and actual combat, its not an art exhibition for scenery paintings. oleg would be much more interested in seeing if the frame rates are decent then to see if the shade of green on the fields is right

did you really miss all that ? no you didnt, you actually know it. but instead you post your usual negative crap DELIBERATELY.

[Tree_UK]

OK, now that's enough. I frankly don't care who started it, but can you two please try and sort this out. This poisenous banter between you two needs to stop. I'm really tired of seeing it and I'm sure Oleg is too. If you feel so enraged, please please try and take it out somewhere else, and not here.

PPanPan

I agree my friend, i have asked him to pm his attacks and to keep it out of the forums but I guess he like an audience.

[Letum]

Remember when the Dev updates where untextured, rough models in a
basic realtime render?

Complaining about the updates now makes as much sense as complaining
that the untextured Do-17 in the first updates was purple all over.

It's a work in progress.

Do you really think that Oleg and his team are blind and only you can see
what still needs work?
Do you think what your looking at is what the finished product will look like?

Of course not!

It's silly to complain that an untextured model is purple and it's silly to complain
that an uninished landscape/plane/effect/sound/ etc. is one thing or another.

[T}{OR]

Thank you Oleg for posting this update, including the video, even though you said it was time consuming and you were too busy.

Please note that there are people here who appreciate the work that you do and also understand that what you're posting isn't mandatory.

Remember when the Dev updates where untextured, rough models in a
basic realtime render?

Complaining about the updates now makes as much sense as complaining
that the untextured Do-17 in the first updates was purple all over.

It's a work in progress.

Do you really think that Oleg and his team are blind and only you can see
what still needs work?
Do you think what your looking at is what the finished product will look like?

Of course not!

It's silly to complain that an untextured model is purple and it's silly to complain
that an uninished landscape/plane/effect/sound/ etc. is one thing or another.

Exactly. :)


Btw. hi there Letum, nice to see a post from you in a while.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Next week Oleg should post BLANK screenshots and a video with STATIC on it only for like 10 minutes :evil: There are some things that people seem to stick to, clouds and terrain. Again many fail to see the subtle changes in many of the pics..like the correction of lighting etc. I bet terrain or clouds are worked on but not shown yet. Do you remember Oleg mentioning he does not want to show too much as it is WORK IN PROGRESS and due competitors.

SoW has been under works a long time, gone through changes and all that. It is close to a release now and Oleg & Team has it covered what to do with their new sim. His comment about people was spot on, but seems the sim community are like that and we still wonder why simulators are a niché and not much produced :rolleyes:

Let's just sit back, enjoy the ride and soon fly SoW :) Have a nice weekend all!

[zapatista]

I agree my friend, eww jeez, all syrupy now ?

i have asked him to pm his attacks and to keep it out of the forums but I guess he like an audience.

and that means you can add being a liar to your job description to, because you havnt :) not of course that there is anything interesting to "discuss" with you, because there is no substance to your "participation" here in this forum, neither is there something you can "resolve", because that is not why you are here at all

you NEVER post technical information here, dont contribute to aviation, ww2, or il2 or BoB factual discussions or help newcomers to the forum out. the ONLY thing you do here is complain, and if you didnt make those negative posts your participation here would be zilch !

[furbs]

To be fair, Tree might post things that some people disagree with, but he never makes personal attacks on forum members here, which i thought was a banning offence?...though it seems people can post stuff like this...

"you'r a a whiny little bitch Tree, and also a coward"

...and the mods do nothing?

Anyway...back to the topic...

Myself...i agree with Tree...the landscape when compaired to the fantastic and beautifuly made aircraft and ground models, the landscape looks below par and so far to me, and nothing like England.

I made a post on Sim hq here...
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3100294/2.html



Im hoping as Oleg has said that this will improve, im sure it will.

But as i see it right now the landscape is the weak link(visually anyway).

As others have said when we see DX11 high res videos with AA and AF we can make a better judgment on how the final landscape will look.

[ATAG_Dutch]

I think the terrain looks bad, now try and discuss.

I don't really understand the people who are criticising clouds' shape and colour. All of this week's screenshots look superb to me.
Aren't clouds infinitely variable in colour, shape and size?

The terrain is either not being shown in its full glory or maybe we're just not used to the way it looks.
On trawling through older screenshots, here's one of a Hurri in SoW and one of a Spit in IL2 on the map discussed earlier.
Personally, I much prefer the more realistic 'washed out' colours in SoW, including the camouflage on the Hurri, but I can't put my finger on what it is about the landscape detail that seems amiss.
And before anyone jumps on my back, I don't think there's anything wrong and I'm not complaining, I'm sure the final result will be excellent.
I'm interested in people's opinions of the relative attributes. I only ever fly IL2 and FSX so haven't got anything more recent to compare to. I'm completely ignorant of the technicalities too!:)
Thanks.

[philip.ed]

I don't really understand the people who are criticising clouds' shape and colour. All of this week's screenshots look superb to me.
Aren't clouds infinitely variable in colour, shape and size?
.

Cloud shape is tricky. Generally mostly all clouds have flat bottoms. That's a definate. These clouds look like cotton balls, which really isn't realistic. But they may be WIP, so hopefully they'll be looked at at some point ;)
Also, the clouds will reflect a lot of sunlight too. I have yet to see that effect modelled here. On a nice summer day, the clouds will look a vibrant white, whereas the area the sun doesn't hit will be a lot greyer (maybe like the ones shown, but with more texture) ;)

Zapatista; you should count yourself lucky you haven't been banned. Name-calling like that is just childish. Women call eachother bitches. (Note, this is not a subliminal dig at you). Tree was just posting his own opinion. Your reaction was just a bit OTT. ;) If you feel that way, then a PM will save from cluttering the forum like that.

[philip.ed]

To be fair, Tree might post things that some people disagree with, but he never makes personal attacks on forum members here, which i thought was a banning offence?...though it seems people can post stuff like this...

"you'r a a whiny little bitch Tree, and also a coward"

...and the mods do nothing?

Anyway...back to the topic...

Myself...i agree with Tree...the landscape when compaired to the fantastic and beautifuly made aircraft and ground models, the landscape looks below par and so far to me, and nothing like England.

I made a post on Sim hq here...
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3100294/2.html



Im hoping as Oleg has said that this will improve, im sure it will.

But as i see it right now the landscape is the weak link(visually anyway).

As others have said when we see DX11 high res videos with AA and AF we can make a better judgment on how the final landscape will look.

+1 eloquently put.

[zapatista]

, the landscape looks below par and so far to me, and nothing like England..

and anybody that makes a civilized statement or constructive observation should be treated accordingly by other forum participants, but are you really now going to try and pretend that this is the way tree communicates here ?

even in this thread, just scroll back and see exactly what he DOES post, and he does it very deliberately.

[philip.ed]

Zap, no matter how sarcastic his posts are, they aren't really that bad. I mean, a personal attack was a bit over the top in this case. Just ignore those types of posts. If you don't agree with them, then causing an argument won't lead to anywhere as neither of you will concede.

[phlewp]

Well yes, it looks realistic because it's photographs of real clouds :)

Although the library is large, you do see the same clouds (in 2D plates!) again and again and...

I would be delighted if 3D volumetric clouds looked that good, but I'd settle for any sort of 3D volumetric cloud that formed part of a dynamic, moving, shifting weather engine (and what we've seen in terms of lighting at least so far looks great, I just want to see more types of weather).

Weather is one of the great pillars of immersion, for me. Some of the most evocative bits of all those great WWII books are weather related, whether it's pilots like Clostermann or Wellum dancing around the clouds in their Spitfires, or Gibson easing in and out of the channel murk and mist in a Beaufighter or Lancaster.

Summers days and fluffy cumulus are all very well, but I want to chase Ju88s through the mist and clag of a blustery autumn dawn with 500ft ceilings :)

I agree that weather can be a great factor when it comes to immersion. Some of my favorite experiences in IL2 have been flying above the clouds, then diving down into them to engage the enemy, and then suddenly having a panic moment as I realize I'm right in the midst of a formation of bombers. Or flying through the clouds, only to see another plane heading straight for me at the last second.


I too would prefer 3D volumetric clouds that formed part of a dynamic system, to anything 2D. I would rather have 3D volumetric "cotton balls" or amorphous blobs than the finest 2D textures/pictures of clouds.


The rest of us... the silent majority enjoy the Friday updates and the really nice screen shots. Good enough to use as desktop wall paper. Whatever pictures you'd like to show us... show. Most of us appreciate the efforts and the work involved.


Count me amongst the silent (until now that is, what with this being my first comment) majority. While I've been waiting a long time for SoW:BoB, I'd rather have it released when Oleg thinks it's ready, rather than having a bug ridden, poor experience the first time around. I find poorly written, buggy software to be more frustrating than waiting for a proper release.

It seems that Oleg just can't win though. People bitch for news on a release date, and if they don't meet that release date, people bitch. He holds out on giving a release date until he feels confident he can make that release date, and people still bitch. I've seen the same thing in the forums for Luxology's modo software, and other places. I don't think people appreciate just how non-linear creating something like SoW is. It's not a simple progression of A to B to C to D and all the way to Z. Fix or change something in step C, and you might have to go back and tweak stuff in step A.

[philip.ed]

If he released it in two years I wouldn't care. So long as it wasn;t bug ridden, as you said ;)
He has me hooked by the shots he posts each week. I don't think I give this impression though, but I really do feel that way :)

[Ernst]

Some are so much worried about graphics, clouds, terrains etc. *$#@*&%!@#$ the graphics. :eek:

My expectatives are more on SoW engine, damage models, flight models, aircraft management and the simulation features.

Graphics could be changed after in some patches or 3rd party. By the way, i am very happy about the graphics i have seen until now.

I am more curious about the aircrafts managements, but as seen i ll have to wait. :cool:

[winny]

Look.. It's not finished.

My thoughts on those who simply criticise.

I think it's rude and unfair to criticise. You don't own this game, you haven't paid any money for this game and yet you go on and on and on about silly cosmetic things without a single thought to the fact that the cosmetics come last in the list of things to do. The devs don't need someone telling them the terrain looks like it was painted by a child. Cheeky bastards.


It's a privelage to see these WIP shots, like oleg says.. he could just as easily create a big flashy movie that bears no relation to the final product. He hasn't, and for that I thank him.

[Tree_UK]

According to Oleg it is finished other than the bugs.

[ChrisDNT]

The quality of light in the video is impressive, but I would really like to see some terrain pics with colors looking like those of England.

[Old_Canuck]

It's a computer program, not a made-to-order sandwich bar.

Wow Romanator21, excellent riposte with choice usage of comparison/contrast, metaphor and who knows what else .. in one sentence. I love it. :lol:

[philip.ed]

Personally, I think that one of the main reasons why they're posted is for Oleg to read constructive criticism. This way he can gauge the opinions of some people and look into the aspects which come under question. Forum members who develop games have come on here an said exactly the same thing. It's great for the team to hear our honest opinions, as we are the market.
If everyone lied about their feelings, the sim wouldn't be as good as it is now (as many of the changed features may not have been looked into)
If Oleg didn't want the help, he wouldn't use it. Simple as that.

[Tacoma74]

Very nice looking stuff Oleg! The closeup on that weathered looking G.50 is just stunning! Its my new desktop background :):)

Can't wait to see whats in store for next week! I do agree with a couple others that you should have just posted that older video. No sound is fine by us. I just want to see things in motion. I really admire all the work you've put into this game Oleg, and i'm sure we could all say the same. Keep it up!

I do have to agree with Winny tho. The over-criticizing and nit picking by some is a little rude. There is a big difference between constructive criticism and over-criticizing. If you're going to be rude and not add to the discussions then just keep it to yourself because its a waste of our time :evil:

edit: Nevermind i guess he did post that video haha awesome

[philip.ed]

Is this rude:

Oleg, are the clouds shown final? They look quite nice, but IMHO are a bit grey? Also, they still look quite cotton-ballish. I hope this makes sense. I am sure it can be a feature that will always be tweaked from release, but this is just my two pence. Have a great weekend ;)

that's my original post. I think it got blown way out of proportion.

[Old_Canuck]

Here ya go. Makes you want to run right out and buy a copy doesn't it.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKSK9AvLUK4&feature=related

[ATAG_Dutch]

I'm interested in people's opinions of the relative attributes.

Tumbleweed floats and bounces gently across the screen..............:grin:

In answer to my own post it seems to me to be the contrast between the darkness of the trees and the paleness of the fields at this altitude in the SoW shots.
For the fields to be that pale, I'd expect the trees to be less black green and more green green, yet when we get lower, they seem more green green relative to the surrounding landscape.
Maybe a simple colour contrasting thing.
Anyone?:confused:

[MD_Titus]

I know, and I wasn't complaining either.
I was attempting to politely point out to Tree that there's probably a very good reason why we maybe haven't been shown the full terrain.
In earlier update posts I've also pointed out that I'd be more than happy if this was the final result.
I don't have any gripe at all my friend, so stop being so hasty. Thanks.:)
possibly just quoted your post from a host of others tbh, no offence meant to you personally. just friday is "update day" and having to wade through a load of negative posts to see if oleg has responded to any serious questions grates.


Cloud shape is tricky. Generally mostly all clouds have flat bottoms. That's a definate. These clouds look like cotton balls, which really isn't realistic. But they may be WIP, so hopefully they'll be looked at at some point ;)
Also, the clouds will reflect a lot of sunlight too. I have yet to see that effect modelled here. On a nice summer day, the clouds will look a vibrant white, whereas the area the sun doesn't hit will be a lot greyer (maybe like the ones shown, but with more texture) ;)

Zapatista; you should count yourself lucky you haven't been banned. Name-calling like that is just childish. Women call eachother bitches. (Note, this is not a subliminal dig at you). Tree was just posting his own opinion. Your reaction was just a bit OTT. ;) If you feel that way, then a PM will save from cluttering the forum like that.
which is it man. i see plenty of clouds without a flat pan bottom on them. in fact, here in kent, they tend to be lumpy.
According to Oleg it is finished other than the bugs.
and if you noticed he also said these are not current build shots. as in not the finished product, as in WIP.

as in ronseal.

[philip.ed]

MD, yes; in kent all clouds that I see have flat bottoms (or 99%. some clouds that break away from the larger ones won't to begin with). That, I'd say, is a safe bet. Google it and have a look ;)
Have a nice weekend.

[Foo'bar]

Here ya go. Makes you want to run right out and buy a copy doesn't it.?


Well, when I look to that then rather not. Doesn't look like anything special. Seems like Tree with all his complains ment the CFS3 instead ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeKqqGXUQuk&feature=player_embedded#!

[Tacoma74]

Is this rude:

Oleg, are the clouds shown final? They look quite nice, but IMHO are a bit grey? Also, they still look quite cotton-ballish. I hope this makes sense. I am sure it can be a feature that will always be tweaked from release, but this is just my two pence. Have a great weekend ;)

that's my original post. I think it got blown way out of proportion.

Not at all. Thats very constructive in my opinion. Its wen people say something completely unnecessary on top of that to down on the developers. Like saying that "its not up to standards and that a child could have done better." Thats what i call rude....

[philip.ed]

Not at all. Thats very constructive in my opinion. Its wen people say something completely unnecessary on top of that to down on the developers. Like saying that "its not up to standards and that a child could have done better." Thats what i call rude....

Thankyou ;)

[BadAim]

Personally, I think that the main reason Oleg posts here is because he is an aviation enthusiast who likes to interact with other aviation enthusiasts. He has of late taken to sharing his passion with this community on a large scale, and I for one appreciate it.

Oleg has given this community unprecedented access to himself and his life over the last ten plus years, to the point where many of us feel like he is an old friend. I for one don't want to see it stop, so I'm not going to contribute to the Bull any more. I'm simply going to start adding names to my ignore list, and I hope Oleg does the same.

Good bye to those of you who I've put on my list, it's been fun, but it's time to move on.

[philip.ed]

& Nearmiss or Oleg. Is it possible for the video to be posted in the original post on the first page? Thankyou ;)

[holdenbj]

Oleg,

Thanks again for another great update. Amazed you found time to do with an office move.

Are those first set of screen shots over the Isle of Wight , south coast of UK? The southern point cliffs are a little too severe, other than that the topology/terrain is just perfect. Needs the light houses are St Catherine's and the Needles too :)

[FlandersRevenge]

Looks great man! I'm eagerly waiting for it. Hopefully soon!

[Flutter]

Currently there is two systems of view. One like in Il-2, another new.
I'm thinking how it rework a bit... the second one.... and more and more see that Il-2 system was the best really.... But in Il-2 system is impossible to control some absolutely new things..

Some "non fixed" camera is in plan. But not ready. First we should fix the bugs, then try to think about such additional for filmmakers features.

Oleg,

One viewpoint I have found to be working really nice in another sim is one where the camera flies behind the target airplane (time offset of aircraft track).
Sharp turns will send the target aircraft out of view, but this adds to the dynamic properties of the shot.

Otherwise thank you for the updates

Flutter

[Achilles97]

Looks great. Thank you for the screenshots, video, and your efforts.

[LukeFF]

Thank you for the update, Oleg. It is much appreciated. :)

I know the shots are still WIP, and that the best is yet to come.

[MD_Titus]

MD, yes; in kent all clouds that I see have flat bottoms (or 99%. some clouds that break away from the larger ones won't to begin with). That, I'd say, is a safe bet. Google it and have a look ;)
Have a nice weekend.

why google when i look out the window every day.

seriously, you say flat, and it implies completely flat. or do you just mean that they have a bottom more like ~ than _

[philip.ed]

I live in Kent too ;) I think there is no way to define the flatness. It won't be ruler straight.

[ATAG_Dutch]

in kent all clouds that I see have flat bottoms

I thought that air pressure, movement, temperature, humidity, topography and thermals had more effect than what county they were observed in!:rolleyes::grin:

[PilotError]

Thanks for the update, Oleg.:grin:

I have to say that after all the trouble you went to to give us this Friday update with screenshots and a video, considering you were up to your neck in office moving, I don't blame you for getting upset by some of the comments made.
I wouldn't blame you if you decided to walk away from this forum and forget about posting any future updates, but I really hope you don't.
I (and I would guess the vast majority here) really enjoy these updates and your input.

As for the screenshots I like them and can't really see what all the complaints are about.

In every screenshot that shows the terrain there is also an atmospheric haze. If you look at anything through a haze it will lose it's colour. Actually, I think the haze looks very realistic.:cool:

The bullet hole in the gun seems quite viable to me. What struck me more about that shot was that the gunner wasn't in a static position as if holding a gun (as Il2 does now). He looks as though he has been wounded, which isn't surprising given the number of bullet holes around his position.

The aircraft, as ever, look fantastic.

The video was very interesting. Had the upper gunner been killed and that is why the other crew were changing positions?

Thanks again for the update. Some of us really do appreciate it.

[Zoom2136]

As someone that play online wars (ghost skies), I think that it would be a good idea to have an option to paint our rudder a particular color.

This may not be historically accurate, but would help us a lot in spotting our wingman.

Could be made as a server side option?

my 2c

[SlipBall]

I live in Kent too ;) I think there is no way to define the flatness. It won't be ruler straight.



Post one of Oleg's shots for me, that you feel is not correct cloud base...I don't see any way to judge the cloud base shape, because the base is not shown:confused:

[Bobb4]

What I like about the terrain is for the first time you can see definition, landsculpturing from a distance at altitude.
One can only imagine what it will be like down low and fast with a 109 glued to your arse...
The dead crew member is again something great to see, more immersion.
Also look at the level of detail in the distance. It is amazing.
Imagine flying the BoB as an Italian fighter jock ;)

[Novotny]

What bothers me is the having to find fault. Some people can't just take an update and say it looks good; for some reason, they must have a criticism. I'd hate to know these people in real life - I would avoid them like the plague.

Is it just that the internet allows people to say things they wouldn't in real life? I think so. Nevertheless, I wish I was an admin. I'd be banning left right and centre.

[philip.ed]

Post one of Oleg's shots for me, that you feel is not correct cloud base...I don't see any way to judge the cloud base shape, because the base is not shown:confused:

3rd set, shot 2 and 5. It's faintly clear here ;)

[philip.ed]

I thought that air pressure, movement, temperature, humidity, topography and thermals had more effect than what county they were observed in!:rolleyes::grin:

Sorry, poorly worded from me :D the same is true everywhere (at least every-where I've been) ;)

Obviously some clouds will differ, but usually the cloud base/bottom is quite profound.

[philip.ed]

why google when i look out the window every day.

seriously, you say flat, and it implies completely flat. or do you just mean that they have a bottom more like ~ than _

OK, this may answer the question.
This 3rd party app is something that I think should be considered for SoW, in the same way that speed-tree is used currently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLfHDul5XGw&feature=related

As can be seen, the flat-bottom isn't necessarily ruler straight, but is a lot more defined that the current SoW models.
Notice the lighting too.

[winny]

Did this forum suddenly turn into the Met office or something?

Go here (http://cloudappreciationsociety.org/gallery/) and look at some clouds, then stop generalising.

[ivagiglie]

Personally, I think that one of the main reasons why they're posted is for Oleg to read constructive criticism. This way he can gauge the opinions of some people and look into the aspects which come under question. Forum members who develop games have come on here an said exactly the same thing. It's great for the team to hear our honest opinions, as we are the market.
If everyone lied about their feelings, the sim wouldn't be as good as it is now (as many of the changed features may not have been looked into)
If Oleg didn't want the help, he wouldn't use it. Simple as that.

Exactly.

I work on software, not games, but it's the same story.
When we review customer feedback we probably spend 5% of the time on the "good" feedback (yeah, we know that's cool or at least working) and 95% on the NEGATIVE one.
Heck, we probably spend more time *getting* into the meeting room, taking seats and setting up the projector than on the positive things!

Personally I don't care about how harsh the feedback is:
I'm a professional, I'm paid to do my job so I sit down, set aside feelings and try to filter and elaborate on the good input, that is, anything that I can use when I get back to my desk to improve stuff.
Sure, there are times when you read a sentence and all you can say is "this guy's an idiot, he didn't even understand the feature!" but it still leaves you with something to think about...

What's different on a forum compared to "static" customer feedback is interactivity.
People answering back to others that made negative/bad/harsh comments are just polluting the good info, that is, again, stuff that *might* make the product better.
In this thread there are already more than 200 posts and probably only 20 or so that contain anything the team working on SoW can find useful!

One last thing and then I'll finish with this whining.
Stop talking like you were in Oleg's brain!
"I'm sure they will do it" / "It's certain they will change it"
No, you can't be sure or certain about anything and, once again you pollute the forum with nothingness.
There can be one godzillion (which is a godzilla followed by a lots of zeroes) reasons why that specific thing you are sure about in a piece of software cannot be changed with reasonable effort.

That's all, good night!

[SlipBall]

3rd set, shot 2 and 5. It's faintly clear here ;)


Now only you would claim to be able to see those cloud's base, are you going mad?;):-P:-P...you would need to be at a reasonable similar altitude, not thousands of feet above, as is the view in those shots.:confused::confused:

[Romanator21]

When we review customer feedback we probably spend 5% of the time on the "good" feedback (yeah, we know that's cool or at least working) and 95% on the NEGATIVE one.

It's one thing to offer constructive criticism (best supported with documentation/photos, etc).

It's quite another to say that the entire effort looks like some child painted it with water colors. This is where the frustration is coming in to play.

Non-meteorologists looking outside their window and commenting on the inaccuracy of clouds isn't quite constructive either, though the intentions may be good.

Lastly, the whining attitude is not exactly welcome to people who are working their asses off 13+ hours 6-7 days a week. ("We should be seeing videos at this stage, why are you still showing screen-shots, this is a boring update"). Have you noticed how many times Oleg has gotten sick this past year? I assure you it's not at all from sleeping in.

Gosh I feel like Chris Crocker when I say, all you people want is MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!

[Tone71]

Are those first set of screen shots over the Isle of Wight , south coast of UK? The southern point cliffs are a little too severe, other than that the topology/terrain is just perfect. Needs the light houses are St Catherine's and the Needles too :)

All things considered, I don't think it looks too bad:

http://www.islandbreaks.co.uk/xsdbimgs/stcatherinesaerial2.jpg

Sorry for the small pic, best I could find! This is St.Catherine's on the Isle of Wight; you can just make out how steep it really is and the 'double step' up from the sea.

[Old_Canuck]

Well, when I look to that then rather not. Doesn't look like anything special. Seems like Tree with all his complains ment the CFS3 instead ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeKqqGXUQuk&feature=player_embedded#!

I think you understand my point Foo'bar. Oleg could have waited until just before the release date and published a fantasy video like the one I posted. Instead he's chosen to show us the "real deal."

CFS3 was highly criticized after release and you could say it really hit the shelves. My copy is still on the shelf after several frustrating attempts to enjoy it. SoW will be a different story. After its release there might be a few growing pains but I believe it will another long-running playable and re-playable sim like IL-2 Sturmovik.

[Jimko]

Thank you Mr. Maddox for the update pictures and especially for your comments about the progress to date!

I have very few posts on this forum, as you can see. Usually I have had only compliments for the updates and for that I am labeled a ‘fanboy’. But, I also had only one criticism in the past, and that was agreeing with some others about the size of the Hurricane pilot. For that I am labeled a “stupid troll, ignorant terd (or was it turd), etc. :lol:

There is no winning! Either I am whining or I am groveling like a dog for approval!

But do not be discouraged. I think that some people do not even read all the previous posts in a thread and they ask for things that you have already spoken about. People are like that.

And others have a double standard. The Hurricane pilot size is not to be mentioned ‘on peril of death’, but the leaf colour, tree trunk sizes, road widths, tracer appearance, colour of the tires (just kidding) and who knows what other details, are ok to criticize…??

This is all very puzzling for someone relatively new to this forum. I think that it demonstrates the old adage “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!”. We will never agree on all points!

I, and many others, still look forward to the release of this combat flight sim.

Good luck!

[Romanator21]

For starters, cliffs erode, and sometimes rather quickly. Today's landscape isn't going to match 1940's landscape 100%.

3rd set, shot 2 and 5. It's faintly clear here

Allow me to respectfully disagree with you here and say that there is nothing out of the ordinary with these clouds, and in fact they are quite realistic as I see these types quite often. I have also flown very close to clouds (but not in them as I'm not IFR certified). Theses are already rather flat in appearance, but you shouldn't expect to see table-tops except for under certain conditions.

And others have a double standard. The Hurricane pilot size is not to be mentioned ‘on peril of death’, but the leaf colour, tree trunk sizes, road widths, tracer appearance, colour of the tires (just kidding) and who knows what other details, are ok to criticize…??

Tracer color, leaf color, etc are subjective based on our experiences and monitor calibrations. Pilot size is scaled in the 3D engine along with every other object. It's impossible to make a pilot which is shorter than you scale it to be. If it's 175cm, it's 175cm, no speculation necessary.

[bf-110]

B.R.20...Magnifico!!!!

[He111]

Excellent work! but did i see an italian fighter attacking a wimpy from behind?? .. not the best tactics, maybe an inexperienced pilot?

My $100 is burning a hole in my pocket!

He 111.

[Chivas]

The Terrain and Clouds are looking really good in todays screenshots. I'm ecstatic that the developers didn't go the route of some IL-2 map modders who went with satellite photographs to develop their terrain. Satellite photo realistic terrain looks decent at high altitude, but its total crap when flying at lower altitudes.. SOW terrain can be steadily improved upon in future updates, while satellite terrain will always look like crap.

[major_setback]

Nicest clouds we've seen yet!

[Tree_UK]

Look at the bullet/canon damage in screen shot number 4 and then compare it to this, something has gone very wrong here IMHO. The damage in screenshot no: 4 looks like a black bitmap splodge over the top of the skin.




http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/4971/spitdamage.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/spitdamage.jpg/)

[Ctrl E]

Looks awesome to me 0leg. Can't wait to play this baby.

[Richie]

Here ya go. Makes you want to run right out and buy a copy doesn't it.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKSK9AvLUK4&feature=related

I've never been so disapointed in a product in all my life. I took it back to the EB an hr. after I bought it...what a joke.

[Romanator21]

Look at the bullet/canon damage in screen shot number 4 and then compare it to this, something has gone very wrong here IMHO. The damage in screenshot no: 4 looks like a black bitmap splodge over the top of the skin.

Another prime example of constructive criticism. Way to go Tree!

[Bearcat]

I have a question about the damage model.. I know that leaks and such will be modeled... and I expect them to be well done.. but in the case of say an oil leak.. as in I am shooting a bandit.. I hit his engine and he starts to spew oil... or even if I get hit and I spew oil.. those leaks should only last for a limited duration and shortly after they stop one would expect the engine to seize up correct? I am also thinking that whatever the effect is it will be animated... yes?

[Tree_UK]

Another prime example of constructive criticism. Way to go Tree!

Stop worrying woman. :grin:

[Avimimus]

S!

Next week Oleg should post BLANK screenshots and a video with STATIC on it only for like 10 minutes :evil: There are some things that people seem to stick to, clouds and terrain. Again many fail to see the subtle changes in many of the pics..like the correction of lighting etc. I bet terrain or clouds are worked on but not shown yet. Do you remember Oleg mentioning he does not want to show too much as it is WORK IN PROGRESS and due competitors.

SoW has been under works a long time, gone through changes and all that. It is close to a release now and Oleg & Team has it covered what to do with their new sim. His comment about people was spot on, but seems the sim community are like that and we still wonder why simulators are a niché and not much produced :rolleyes:

Let's just sit back, enjoy the ride and soon fly SoW :) Have a nice weekend all!

I agree - a lot of people are pretty blind. They don't see the changes (or what is implied by them). They'd be happier with pre-rendered intro videos.

I don't think Oleg should really post update. I show up every friday for them though (but if I were him I'd have called it quits a while back). I'd say burn the forum to the ground! Leave nothing standing!

It seemed different in the old days (before Il-2 was released) - there were other WWII flight-sims in existence. If people were there it was because Il-2 had a novel environment (Great Patriotic War) and because Oleg was responsive and innovative.

IMHO, I think a lot of the whining demographic was on the CFS2 and CFS3 forums. Sure, we begged for features (politely) and there was even some groveling - but it wasn't this level of entitled bullshitting. Remember that it was a time period when only TK/EAW really consulted with fans and the Flanker team occasionally commented, but it was rare and a little aloof).

[dflion]

Thanks Oleg,
Good to see the Italian Airforce represented. Liked the shots of the Wellington (hope you are working on a future four engined British heavy).
I am reading lots of Library BOB books in anticipation of working in the new FMB. The more you read about the 'Battle of Britain' the more you see the mission building possibilties. I am really hoping for a vast improvement on IL2 in this area - lots of trigger point scenario's.
Hope you can fix the 'bad weather' bugs soon and show us some pics.
Finally, how was your move?
DFLion

[Hunden]

I promised to look for some erlier video, but there isn't recorded sound, so I wont post it.
However we did new screen shots.

LMAO you just made every whiner cry.:grin:

[Cobra8472]

Folks, it's also quite obvious that the machine utilized to snap these screenshots is not running any form of Anistrophic Filtering, or Anti-Aliasing.

Those will make an incredibly massive difference in improving the quality of the ground textures.

It has also been stated multiple times that the ground textures are not set to the maximum setting.

Please wait for some definitive screenshots before ripping it apart ;)

[Jimko]

Tracer color, leaf color, etc are subjective based on our experiences and monitor calibrations. Pilot size is scaled in the 3D engine along with every other object. It's impossible to make a pilot which is shorter than you scale it to be. If it's 175cm, it's 175cm, no speculation necessary.

Ahh..and so you are saying that road width, tree trunk size, and all other sizes are not scaled like the pilot size or in your words "every other object"?

Strangely, some others noticed a discrepency as well, when it came to pilot size...

Nevertheless, all opinions and observations should be accepted without malice which was more to the point of my post.

Cheers!

[Hunden]

Read above. And never ask again. I think what I think. And I decide when its time to show something


Dislike to see sceenshots when It was almost impossible to post... ok I will not post for some time maybe.

You see what all you whiny retards did.:evil:

[Blackdog_kt]

I think this is because we don't have a dedicated moderating team. Nearmiss is just one person and he can't be everywhere all the time.
The double edged sword about forum moderation however, is the fact that those who spent a lot of time on a forum and could possibly moderate are usually also the same people who can't keep a level headed attitude and totally lack the qualities of a good moderator :grin:

I commented on the update previously but in an effort to get things back on track i'll just say that i can't wait to see the multi-engined birds in action, that wellington is making my hands sweat :-P
I usually fly 190s in IL2 but since there's no focke wulfs in BoB i'll have to choose a different ride.

Sure, i'll fly the fighters too, but with the improvements in FM/DM and systems modelling that are coming along i think i'll greatly enjoy flying a more complex aircraft on a regular basis. If this is coupled with improved multiplayer capabilities for online flying and a "smarter" dynamic campaign engine that can maintain a good balance between triggered events and free flowing action, i think we'll be in for a treat.

Just think of the kind of missions available to twin engined aircraft for the timeframe that SoW will focus on, there are some unusual mission types that have almost never been done properly so far.

Me 110s: Starting with the more common stuff here. Apart from the usual air combat, during BoB Erprobungsgruppe 210 (is that even the correct spelling? :-P) pioneered some experimental and very effective ground attack tactics in the Jabo role. If the AI in single player is multi-layered as has been told in some old interviews and we can be vectored by radar in multiplayer, then things will be pretty much interchangeable between offline and online with regards to the amount of cool tricks we can do.

Here you go then, jump in that 110 and fly at wave-top height across the channel without the advantage of increased visibility range that high altitude flying gives you. You can't fly by the landmarks and map if all you see around is water. Draw up a flightplan that you can distribute to your wingmen (AI or human), view and edit in flight so that you know what the route legs are. Then after take off, tune that direction finder antenna or have your navigator do it and vector you (either a human navigator in multiplayer or an AI one, i wonder if there will be some scripting support so that we can create crewmen functions). Just as you pass over the radio beacon you can see the needle in the instrument reversing. You call up your inflight map and take a look at your notes, the target is at a bearing of 300 from the beacon so now you know where to fly. Nearing the coast you lose signal reception but it's almost time for the pop-up anyway. Merely miles from the radar towers you are targetting, you climb up to 2000-3000 feet to take a look at the landscape and orient yourself. Your squadmate calls "there it is, 10 o'clock low", you instruct full military power and go on a shallow dive, the entire flight releasing bombs in a single shallow pass, leveling off at tree top level to dodge the flak. Swinging around in a wide arc you settle on a south-easterly heading and cross the coast outside the range of the flak batteries. A few miles later your navigator's voice crackles in your headphones "we've got reception from the NDB again, follow the needle and it'll take us straight to it, then after reaching the beacon vector 120 for home base". For extra cool points, do it with a single 110 as a pathfinder leading a flight of Jabo 109s.

Do17: Not flyable initially, but famous for its low level attacks.

Ju88/He111: Apart from day bombing raids the 111 was also heavily involved in the night pathfinder role. Try to fly a precise heading, altitude and airspeed, because the points where the radio beams intersect to signal bomb release are fixed and don't account for different altitude and speed. The rest of the formation drops on your command.

Blenheim: Good old suicidal low-level bombing runs across the channel, targetting occupied ports and airfields. Flak bursting all around, 109s whizzing by and you're stuck with one of the most vulnerable aircraft of the time. You'll have to rely on some pretty clever routing and high speed, low level flying to maintain the element of surprise and ensure survival, but that makes bomb aiming a bit difficult. Quite the nice challenge. Need i say more?

Bristol Beaufort: I don't even know if there are plans to include it at some point, but the type flew a lot of mine laying, torpedo/anti shipping and bombing sorties during BoB. Similar missions for the beaufighter and mosquito (if and when they are included) with the addition of night fighter sorties.

Avro Anson: It could make for a cool twin engined trainer and light attack aircraft in coastal command colours.

Hampden/Wellington: The start of bomber command's offensive. They too could be used for mine laying and anti-shipping strikes, but longer ranges and heavier payloads make for some pretty daring raids if a map is released to support them at some point.

Various types: Photo reconnaisance work.

I'm not going to lie. If the aircraft systems are sufficiently modelled then 5 years down the line i'm looking forward to a big enough map so that i can get a couple of mustang escorts to scout out ahead, assemble my flight of twin engined bombers and tear across occupied Europe at tree-top level, all the way from Norway to the Ruhr valley. And that's coming from someone who spends most of his time in IL2 flying luftwaffe birds :grin:

[nearmiss]

Everyone that is what I would call a viable member of this forums wants the updates and discussions with Oleg or Luthier. That is the crux of the matter that has been bantered around a good part of today.

The developers don't have to post updates or respond to anything on this forums. I don't think any of us wants to have a repeat of the old ORR days at Ubisoft.

Moderators have tried to keep On topic discussions in the update threads, but discussions get side tracked. After the first few hours it is very rare for Oleg or Luthier to make additional responses. IMO, I don't blame them.

Regardless, from a moderation standpoint all the fire is out after the update has been posted for a couple of hours...everything else afterward is just so much "smoke" and verbs.

It is important to have on topic discussions as long as Oleg or Luthier are posting the thread. When the negative stuff starts in they get back to work, which is more productive than trying to answer nonsense whines.

Report the junk postings, especially when the updates are fresh posted. Moderators get immediate email notifications and can usually deal with the trouble postings very quickly. Otherwise, we don't always hang on the forums... we have things to do as well.

[tintifaxl]

Thanks for the pictures of the Italian aircraft! Very much appreciated.

[Baron]

Thank you very much Oleg and team for this weeks update despite the move and all.

P.S. The extra vid was in my opinion way beyond nessesery.


If u think about it, 95% of us enjoy the hell out of friday updates and relize its a work in progress. Consructive input is one thing but we also know you and the team actually knows what u are doing, please keep that in mind and keep up the good work.


Thx.

[kendo65]

Haven't posted on the update before now as I was just too pissed off with the attitudes of some people here to be bothered.

As others have already said, to get such a level of ungrateful whinging after being told we may not even get an update at all made pretty bad reading. No wonder Oleg got annoyed.

I suspect part of the problem we're hitting now is a growing mismatch between what people have been able to imagine the game would be and the approaching reality of what it actually is. You can detect an air of disbelief in some posts - "that isn't the 'real' terrain/smoke/texture/clouds - Oleg's holding it back to nearer release date..."

We've all had plenty of time, unencumbered by too many inconvenient 'facts' to create a fantasy of complete perfection - a cinematically-perfect recreation of 1940 aerial combat in which every facet that is most important to us is perfectly recreated - be it 100% accurate fm/dm, cinematic terrain, perfectly reproduced clouds, totally accurate aircrew uniforms, etc.

And we've been able to get away with this for so long because we didn't have evidence to the contrary.

Now the release date is getting closer and we find that all we are going to get is a very good flight sim! The best on the market no doubt and with room for growth and improvement, but falling short of perfection in areas where we'd begun to feel a sense of entitled certainty.

And so the disillusionment kicks in.

Anyway, I'm sure things will continue to improve up to release (and beyond). As others have said, until we really see this nearer to final production release on high settings without jaggies, etc it is next to impossible to judge its overall quality anyway - personally I am already pleased with what I've seen - it won't take too much more tweaking to get it very, very good.

But maybe we'd better get used to the idea that 'perfection' might have to wait a little longer?
-------
MD_Titus said it pretty well...
click link to view - too long to reproduce in full
...while also claiming the record for the longest forum post I've ever seen (narrowly beating Blackdog_kt's recent efforts. Blackdog always puts in well-reasoned and interesting posts, but God, they're long. One of these days I hope to read one all the way through ;) )

[Baron]

Look at the bullet/canon damage in screen shot number 4 and then compare it to this, something has gone very wrong here IMHO. The damage in screenshot no: 4 looks like a black bitmap splodge over the top of the skin.




http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/4971/spitdamage.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/spitdamage.jpg/)


Yes it looks differant and while we are at it, tell me, what graphics setting is used in those last screens in this weeks update.

Im just asking since u seem to know something/alot the rest of us dont.

[Foo'bar]

Report the junk postings, especially when the updates are fresh posted. Moderators get immediate email notifications and can usually deal with the trouble postings very quickly. Otherwise, we don't always hang on the forums... we have things to do as well.

Will be a pleasure.

[merlin1]

Oleg.

Good job. I believe the final product will be great.

Please no more friday updates becouse there is so many trols and spamers.


rgr.

[Foo'bar]

Oleg.

Good job. I believe the final product will be great.

Please no more friday updates becouse there is so many trols and spamers.


rgr.


No! Please friday updates to anybody but me :D

[Feuerfalke]

Yes it looks differant and while we are at it, tell me, what graphics setting is used in those last screens in this weeks update.

Im just asking since u seem to know something/alot the rest of us dont.

Nah.

Tree is just very thoroughly when it comes to find something negative.

And very creative to make an oddity a big life-threatening issue.

[Tree_UK]

Yes it looks differant and while we are at it, tell me, what graphics setting is used in those last screens in this weeks update.

Im just asking since u seem to know something/alot the rest of us dont.

Well thats just my point Baron, we have not seen any high res screen shots with aircraft over terrain, the only high res aircraft we have seen are the ones against a standard blue WIP background. It would be nice to have just one screenshot with everything in high res and in DX11, considering that the game is effectively finished according to Oleg, with just bugs to iron out you would think that such a screen shot wouldn't be a big ask. It just seems strange that the subject as been ignored or swerved.

[Tree_UK]

Nah.

Tree is just very thoroughly when it comes to find something negative.

And very creative to make an oddity a big life-threatening issue.

In reality im just asking the question that most of you want answered.

[The Kraken]

It just seems strange that the subject as been ignored or swerved.

In what sense is this "strange"? It's consistent with the apparent way Oleg and Luthier prefer to release progress updates. Just because you think they have to prove something to you doesn't mean that's really the case.

[Trumper]

I suspect part of the problem we're hitting now is a growing mismatch between what people have been able to imagine the game would be and the approaching reality of what it actually is. You can detect an air of disbelief in some posts - "that isn't the 'real' terrain/smoke/texture/clouds - Oleg's holding it back to nearer release date..."




Well said Kendo, i think you may have hit the nail on the head here.It is a bit like Christmas, world cup final, [whatever you find that fits the idea] ,all the build up,all the hype all the tension and then a big let down at times.
I do also have to say that MAYBE Oleg has had a bit to do with it as well by drip feeding and hinting it is all WIP and not near finished so people assume there is still 50% more improvement to come,possibly on some things but i doubt it on all.
He does need now to make a decision on starting to show what is actually going to be a finished result OR maybe leave a few weeks until he can.
I daresay we will all buy the product anyway.
An easier idea is for Oleg to post any developments as he does now BUT then it is locked and all discussions about it are deleted,if there are any obvious problems that Oleg and his team need to know [ie accuracy ] they can be sent via PM or via moderators.

[Daniël]

I'd really hate to be an italian in that crate. Imagine October with cold wind, rain and then an open cockpit. *brrr*

Just wondering:

In Il-2 all graphical files (i.e. GUI, aircraft textures, markings etc) were hardcoded and not accessible for players. Will SoW allow players to modify such things according to their liking (i.e. different gfx for the GUI to create a "1940-ish feeling")? With regards to the national markings this may also be a way around the issues of swastika/hakaristi that appeared with that lew law in Russia (we exchanged mails about that a while back).

(Sorry to start the swastika discussion again.)
Wouldn't it be possible to make a downloadable patch for the realistic markings with swastika's? The Internet is 'intercontinental water' so laws don't really matter. (Or am I wrong?) So the people who want realistic markings can download it.

[Rodolphe]

...


All things considered, I don't think it looks too bad:

http://www.islandbreaks.co.uk/xsdbimgs/stcatherinesaerial2.jpg

Sorry for the small pic, best I could find! This is St.Catherine's on the Isle of Wight; you can just make out how steep it really is and the 'double step' up from the sea.



A floral study (I know, just starting to talk about tree again :grin: :grin:)

The Undercliff and the surrounding countryside;

Then and ...

http://www.back-of-the-wight.shalfleet.net/images_undercliff/undercliff_motor.jpg




http://www.back-of-the-wight.shalfleet.net/images_undercliff/undercliff_fall.jpg




http://www.back-of-the-wight.shalfleet.net/images_undercliff/undercliff_1904.jpg



... Now.

http://www.wight-cam.co.uk/WightCAM/2006Walks/061101-Blackgang/Pana04.jpg



...

[Tree_UK]

Well said Kendo, i think you may have hit the nail on the head here.It is a bit like Christmas, world cup final, [whatever you find that fits the idea] ,all the build up,all the hype all the tension and then a big let down at times.
I do also have to say that MAYBE Oleg has had a bit to do with it as well by drip feeding and hinting it is all WIP and not near finished so people assume there is still 50% more improvement to come,possibly on some things but i doubt it on all.
He does need now to make a decision on starting to show what is actually going to be a finished result OR maybe leave a few weeks until he can.
I daresay we will all buy the product anyway.
An easier idea is for Oleg to post any developments as he does now BUT then it is locked and all discussions about it are deleted,if there are any obvious problems that Oleg and his team need to know [ie accuracy ] they can be sent via PM or via moderators.

I think its more to do with some of the things Oleg has said, for example Oleg was very dismissive of the 'Wings Of Prey' terrain, claiming that SOW would be far better, to date its simply not unless of course Oleg is holding something back which seems bizarre if we are as close to release as they would have us believe. Cinematic, and real time weather have been promised along with manning AA guns and DX11 etc , but so far we have not seen anything of these at this late date, so i think a lot of expectations have been brought about by the devs, who it seems maybe struggling to live up to them. If Oleg says listen guys the terrain has had to be scaled down in order to make the whole thing playable then thats fine with me, but im still taking his last word on the subject in that it will be a lot better than WOP/BOP and until i hear or see otherwise I can only measure what i currently see with his last statement.

[winny]

I think its more to do with some of the things Oleg has said, for example Oleg was very dismissive of the 'Wings Of Prey' terrain, claiming that SOW would be far better, to date its simply not unless of course Oleg is holding something back which seems bizarre if we are as close to release as they would have us believe. Cinematic, and real time weather have been promised along with manning AA guns and DX11 etc , but so far we have not seen anything of these at this late date, so i think a lot of expectations have been brought about by the devs, who it seems maybe struggling to live up to them. If Oleg says listen guys the terrain has had to be scaled down in order to make the whole thing playable then thats fine with me, but im still taking his last word on the subject in that it will be a lot better than WOP/BOP and until i hear or see otherwise I can only measure what i currently see with his last statement.

This is at least the 8th time you've mentioned the terrain in this thread. What is your point? Why can't understand that what you are seeing is unfinished. Oleg has already said he doesn't want the competition to see it too early.

Now it's the devs fault?

Are you saying that Oleg is a liar? Are you implying that they are not going to have better terrain than BoP/WoP? Have you seen this game running at max settings? Or maybe you think you could do a better job?

I'm not saying you can't point out what you like/don't like. But you have to take the updates in context. You simply cannot compare these rough screenshots to the final product. You should take this into account before you decide to keep on and on about something that is basically irrelevant.

[philip.ed]

Did this forum suddenly turn into the Met office or something?

Go here (http://cloudappreciationsociety.org/gallery/) and look at some clouds, then stop generalising.

My question was directed to Oleg, not to you. I have no need to explain myself to you. I have supplied evidence, and posted calmly without whinging or whineing. My original post was nicely structured, and simply asked whether these clouds models were still WIP. You blew my post way out of proportion. yet why should I have to explain myself to you every week? Are you Oleg's sacred messenger? Have you spoken to him personally and do you know what kind of realism he is aiming for? No.
Not that I am doing you a discredit, but your constant belittling of simple posts is just boring, Winny. It happens most weeks and just leeds to flame wars. I know I add to it by replying to you, but it's just boring now. I am not some cloud nut. I based my observation on what I see most (summer) days in kent, and even throughout the year the type of clouds un question (cumulus off the top of my head) will form quite profoundly. The clouds in SoW currently look like cotton-balls, and have no profund shape.
Read this:

Cumulus clouds are a type of cloud with noticeable vertical development and clearly defined edges. Cumulus means "heap" or "pile" in Latin.
As air rises, warmed up by the ground, the temperature falls by adiabatic effect (fall in pressure) to an average rate of 0.65 C per 100 m of altitude.

At 15 C (the average temperature worldwide) a cubic meter of air can contain 14 grams of water. No more.

As the rising air cools down, it has less and less place for water vapour and soon the temperature reaches what is called the dew point, i.e. when the air is 100% saturated and cannot cools any further without condensing in droplets; the cloud.

The base of the cumulus is flat because it is exactly the place where the air reaches the dew point.

But once 'in the cloud' the air cools down at a lower rate because the condensation of water creates energy released as heat. Because of that, the air inside the cloud continues to rise until, eventually the temperature becomes even with the surrounding temperature and the convective rise stops.

The reason the top of the cumulus is cauliflower shaped is that, each 'bump' is in fact the top of one cell of warm air that has been rising.

Such cells, often called thermic cells are what glider pilots are looking for because they use it to circle in and climb. You will also see birds like seagulls and eagles taking those 'elevators' to gain altitude without effort.


Thankyou Winny. I researched it for you, and I think this answer answers the question ;)


@Slipball: you may be right about seeing the bottoms of the clouds, as the view in the shots is slightly above them. Nonetheless, there is no defined shape that leads to the bottom of the clouds, as one might see when flying above clouds. It is hard to explain, but my quote (I feel) gives a good explanation of this paticular type of clouds ;)

[furbs]

Does anyone know if Oleg has shown anything in DX10 or 11 yet? or has he said what settings his screenshots are taken at?...that would at least give us some context to put the shots we have seen so far into.

[Tree_UK]

This is at least the 8th time you've mentioned the terrain in this thread. What is your point? Why can't understand that what you are seeing is unfinished. Oleg has already said he doesn't want the competition to see it too early.

Now it's the devs fault?

Are you saying that Oleg is a liar? Are you implying that they are not going to have better terrain than BoP/WoP? Have you seen this game running at max settings? Or maybe you think you could do a better job?

I'm not saying you can't point out what you like/don't like. But you have to take the updates in context. You simply cannot compare these rough screenshots to the final product. You should take this into account before you decide to keep on and on about something that is basically irrelevant.

Oleg has never said he doesn't want the competetion to see it, anyway , what competetion? If what we have been told is true the game is all but finished other than bugs, so the imaginary competeion will see it soon anyway? Doh!!

[philip.ed]

Allow me to respectfully disagree with you here and say that there is nothing out of the ordinary with these clouds, and in fact they are quite realistic as I see these types quite often. I have also flown very close to clouds (but not in them as I'm not IFR certified). Theses are already rather flat in appearance, but you shouldn't expect to see table-tops except for under certain conditions.



My post above answers this quite well. They may look good to you, but please, post a photo of clouds that look exactly like this (over England). Then I may begin to believe that these look realistic.
It's just like the smoke issue. When I first said the smoke didn't look good, people started saying I was wrong. I was called a moaner, and a whiner and I think you were one of the people you said that to me, Romanator. Then Luthier and Oleg replied by saying they hated the smoke more than the minority who had truthfully expressed their opinions. So here we had it; I was right in this instance.
Until Oleg replies, you can be as fan-boiish as you want, but it won't change the fact that Oleg and Luthier have proved you wrong in the past. That's why my original post was in good taste. It just got blown way out of proportion.

;)

[philip.ed]

Does anyone know if Oleg has shown anything in DX10 or 11 yet? or has he said what settings his screenshots are taken at?...that would at least give us some context to put the shots we have seen so far into.

He posted some DX10 shots of some trees a while ago. :grin: They'll be on Foobars site. They have DX10 printed on them.

[furbs]

you got a link to them DX10 trees? :grin:

[philip.ed]

Here you go ;)

bottom of the page:
http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/category/computerspiele/storm-of-war-computerspiele/screenshots/2010/page/5/

[winny]

Oleg has never said he doesn't want the competetion to see it, anyway , what competetion? If what we have been told is true the game is all but finished other than bugs, so the imaginary competeion will see it soon anyway? Doh!!

Yes he did.(look back through his posts, he said that when they showed IL-2 originally some of the competitors 'borrowed' the ideas and he wanted to avoid this happening again). And that wasn't really my point. Why would Oleg lie to us as you seem to be accusing him of? No competition? So there are no other flight simulators available? You'll say anything in order to add to your 'point' won't you?

I'll ask you again, we all know you think the terrain is poor, what's your point?