TARMAC Aces

[JG52Krupi]

Hi Guys,

I have a quick question, hopefully someone here can give me an answer.

Most ppl will think i am completely nuts but i have been looking at getting a stick from these guys...

http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php

I was just wondering if anyone here has ever experienced with/brought one these sticks and could give me some feedback?

As i said ~£500 so i must be slightly insane....

[Flanker35M]

S!

I would love to build a Bf109 or Fw190 cockpit for flying. And using those would make it perfect, even a bit pricey. But again which hobby does not cost in the long run? ;)

[BLR_Tonin_fr]

As far as I know => It is all good !

Never tried one but have a look to the french C6 forum, many users are posting their comments about the hardware. None negative yet.

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=105622&highlight=pour+un+vrai+manche+de+warbirds

I consider it as a serious piece of equipment. If I add all the money I've spent on saitek's cheap stuff, I'd have way enough €€€ to buy the base and the stick.

[KG26_Alpha]

I would try contacting them first as past customers have had issues with "slow" response to enquiries and purchases.

[bolox]

ok- i've got one (and throttle) and am happy with it:):):):)
i doubt i'd ever go back to 'short' sticks

downsides:-
long waiting times as mentioned :evil:
original plastic trigger spoon was a bit fragile- should be a metal one now
over 2 yrs the rubber 'boot' on the stick base seems to have hardened up a bit

anything else you want to know?

[Les]

It says on their website the universal mechanical base is soon to go out of production, to be replaced by a new version. Might be worth waiting for that, and maybe some other stick models too, depending what you're into.

Thanks for bringing them to my attention though, I'm surprised I haven't seen them mentioned here before. Just going by the info on their website, they're the most authentic replica's I've ever seen. The long throw of their sticks would be great and those pedals look amazing. Their force feedback system sounds good too, with no centering, but still with some resistance to the movement. If I was more serious about it and spent more time simming I'd definitely consider getting some of this gear too. The price is high, but so is the quality, as far as I can tell. I hope the company behind them can make a go of it. Certainly worth at least doing some more researching on.

Edit- Ok, while I was writing Bolox replied with some first hand experience.

Bolox, I'm just curious. Is the force feedback just there to provide some resisitance instead of using actual springs or something, and do they have software for adjusting it, and if so, what's that like? Also, if you've had yours for two years, has the company introduced many new products since you got yours or are they just all talk about 'going to do this, going to do that' and never delivering? Their use of plastic on the trigger seems a bit dodgy too, did they actually say later versions would have metal parts there? And in your case what sort of waiting times did you experience, these products look to me like they'd be made to order one at a time, would that explain the delay or do you think they're just slack?

[JG52Krupi]

Thanks for the advise.

ok- i've got one (and throttle) and am happy with it:):):):)
i doubt i'd ever go back to 'short' sticks

downsides:-
long waiting times as mentioned :evil:
original plastic trigger spoon was a bit fragile- should be a metal one now
over 2 yrs the rubber 'boot' on the stick base seems to have hardened up a bit

anything else you want to know?

Awesome thanks for the information, any chance you could upload some shots of your setup?

Which version do you have, the KG13?

Have you regretted your purchase or do you think that it was worth the money? (I am a keen simmer but have not played il2 for some time... I have ROF but I prefer the ww2 setting so patiently waiting for SOW)

Is there any part other than the trigger that is weak/fragile?

The hardening of the rubber boot, has it affected the use at all?

Do you think that the increased control that this stick gives you has improved your aiming or did you have to get used to flying without a deadspot?

Going back to Les post he mentioned the springs(or whatever system they use) what does the stick feel like, do you need to be firm with it... Im not a fan of light springs?

The force feedback is it strong?

[rakinroll]

Awesome equipments.

[bolox]

yep kg13

pit pics here
http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/pit/

no i haven't regreted it in the slightest. had it for 2 yrs and it gets a good workout with il2 and a little ROF

i love the no return to centre (no springs) and the smoothness of control a long stick gives- aiming might be improved slightly (you should be centred while shooting really)where it really shows is on the edge of the envelope with 'twitchy' planes, riding G blackouts etc. that and the fact it feels like a real stick between your legs- forces excepted.
rubber boot- if anything it stiffens up the stick slightly- if it were sprung i doubt i'd notice the difference

lets repeat this- THERE IS NO CENTERING SYSTEM - you push it to a position and it stays there. there is a damping system so you push against a mild force.
there was talk of some sort of force option later- this may be what the new base is about but tarmac are being tight lipped.

if you want a sprung stick
http://schreinerschmid-web.homepage.t-online.de/11501.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*
did a sprung kg13 type stick (he frequents here ocassionally aswell)
atm i can't think of a 'long stick' with ffb

[JG52Krupi]

Thanks for the quick reply and images Bolox.

I have sent an email asking for some delivery information etc hopefully i will hear back from them soon.

BTW awesome setup, I don't think I will go as far as that.

[rakinroll]

Great hardware bolox, what is the total cost of those equipments?

[bolox]

Great hardware bolox, what is the total cost of those equipments?

cost- was built over several years/ upgrades but...

tatmac aces stick/throttle ~£700
simped rudders ~£200
beta innovations controller(rip) ~£150
switches pots etc ~£200
wood/metal etc ~£100

would be a rough guess but spread over 5 yrs or so( and you could add 3 pc's:o )- still cheaper than going down the pub:-P

[rakinroll]

still cheaper than going down the pub:-P

Agree but wifes never understand... :grin:

[JG52Krupi]

Got a very quick and helpful response to the questions I asked.... now all I have to decide if its worth all that money....

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=143631&page=2

Love the set-up shown above as I have a spare X52 throttle :D , I will have to get some peddles as well.... which are the best buy atm (And no i wont be buying the tamarc ones..... :P way way waayy too expensive)

Edit.

Actually might use my G27 pedals for rudders...

[swiss]

Recently found this guy:

http://www.taffe.de/53958996b41421a0f/53958996b414daf3f/53958996e9130a107/index.html

Unfortunately his link to the stick manufacturer seems a bit weird, maybe it's worth to drop him a line anyway.

[VO101_MMaister]

Got a very quick and helpful response to the questions I asked.... now all I have to decide if its worth all that money....

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=143631&page=2

Love the set-up shown above as I have a spare X52 throttle :D , I will have to get some peddles as well.... which are the best buy atm (And no i wont be buying the tamarc ones..... :P way way waayy too expensive)

Edit.

Actually might use my G27 pedals for rudders...

I am also in the thinking box. If it had FFB I would buy it in a second. But with this no centering thing I am not very happy. I fly real aircrafts as well and despite tarmac's explanation i don't find this realistic. In flight there is always some self centering on the control stick. It is very important feedback during flying. Not to mention a well trimmed aircraft will fly straight if you release all the contols, becouse the controls are self centering into neutral.

Even if the springs can't simulate the continously changing forces on the controls it is better to have something than nothing. Of course FFB would be the absolutely best.

Let's see what will their new base bring.

Just my 2 cents.

MM

[rollnloop]

I'm the proud owner of first KG13 produced, and i never have had regrets buying it. I feared slightly after breaking two plastic triggers but, as soon as the metal ones were ready, i returned my stick for a few days and it was immediatly mounted. Tarmac C6_Trollbug is really a nice bloke, very helpful and enthousiastic IL2 player too.

There are some valid cons listed above, indeed some kind of self centering is missing sometimes, especially when i want to let the stick free (after proper trimming of course) to get this map lost in the cockpit (or the telephone in my back, or that microphone jack wrongly plugged...) for some time, it almost always falls a bit to the left.

Indeed, real aircraft have some kind of self centering at speed (at least for the ailerons), and current KG13 is to be considered as a step product. Ideally, one day, we will have force feedback, plus the stick will center in a position depending on external forces AND trim, so not necessarily full center (most centered from left to right, but a little forward at speed).

This "special" force feedback is seemingly difficult to do right, tarmac guys have been working on it with an external programmer, but have not retained a valid solution yet (as per few months old news).

Meanwhile (and this meanwhile could take a few years), what we have is a fantastic 109 (or Mirage) stick feel in hand, with a very accurate grip on the deflection, wich help much in keeping these no ail trim birds level, or ride stall speed. When it comes to keep a constant deflection on that target to pepper it withrifle caliber, it is absolutely perfect too.

For the pedals and throttle i too found the expected gain in feel not worth my buying, and kept my X45 throttle and saitek pedals, but for cockpit builder they are a welcome addition imo.

Anyway, hope you have pleasure with this stick like i do, and that with enough clients buying they will bring us soon enough the force feedback option ! :idea: