Misanthrope
08-22-2010, 01:17 PM
I've noticed that while there is an abundance of "additional units" and "realism" mods, there is a lack of suitable "rebalance" mods -- mods aimed at streamlining multiplayer balance to provide for a more intuitive, "competitive-oriented" and "faster-paced" game.
So, having experience with this, and wanting to familiarize myself with MoW modding in general, I've decided to make just such a mod.
That's great? So.. what exactly do you mean?
Well, there are two primary concerns I have with Men of War as it stands.
First, there are too many units. Now don't get me wrong; I love playing around with each and every one of them and I appreciate the passion that goes into researching various weapons and vehicles. But from a purely competitive standpoint, this leaves quite a few units which are either essentially identical to another available unit, or are so lacking in a tangible role that they're never used.
Second, I've noticed a worrying trend in how most multiplayer games end and certain "problems" with how certain factions are balanced towards one another. For instance, the German Tiger II, Sturmtiger, Jagdtiger and Hummel are essentially uncounterable, and while nobody can deny the awesomeness of sending a 380mm rocket-shell arcing across the sky and eradicating an entire city block, it isn't that great for competitive gameplay when other factions literally have no way of responding.
A third and more minor contention is the "experimental/super units" such as the IS-3, Centurion, Turtle and T-29. Again, it's very cool to play with them, but far too many multiplayer games end up with Tiger II's facing IS-3's facing Centurions facing T-29s.
I see.. so what are your plans?
Twofold. First will be a redesign of unit availability to re-prioritize faction strengths and weaknesses. Second will be a "role-call", combining and/or adding specific roles for units and factions.
Can you elaborate more on what these changes will/might be?
Essentially I'll be taking each faction, looking at each unit type (Infantry, Guns, Light Vehicles, Medium/Heavy Vehicles, Self-Propelled etc) and removing, adding or amending features to provide for a more definitive balancing perspective. Some changes will be universal; for example, infantry squads will be increased to 8; all rifle squads will receive a single MG/LMG (MG42, Bren, BAR, DP). Below is a list of the more drastic changes;
*All Rifle/Assault Squads increased to 8;
*All Rifle Squads will get a single MG (MG42/BAR/Bren/DP); this is to help boost Rifle Squad importance, as Rifles are often ignored in favour of Assault Squads.
*German Assault Squad will get ~2 StG 44's
*German AT Rifle replaced with Granatbusche; AT fitted with rifle grenade launcher
*Scout and Officer roles combined (and made cheaper)
*Soviets will get "Partisan/Guerilla" squad; adept at sneaking and setting ambushes (Molotovs) but will fold against hard opposition
*US will get .50 cal M2HB.
*Only 1 special infantry squad per faction; Waffen SS (StG 44's and G43's), Commandos (Stens & Explosives), Guards Infantry (PPSH's and SVT-40s and body armour), and US Airborne (M1 Carbines). Each special infantry squad will come with a "Marksman"; unlike the Sniper he can't scout or have special sniper aim but will be highly accurate at long range nonetheless.
*Special Infantry Squad will be priced accordingly so that it is infact a Special Infantry Squad and not provide an absolute replacement for standard squads.
*Heavy (~150-155mm and larger) Artillery replaced with more "managable" 105mm artillery (ie leFH 18, M2 105mm, 25-Pounder, M-20).
*Prices will be re-calculated across the board so that games do not devolve into simply spamming the best unit; light vehicles and light/medium tanks will still be important and used in the late game.
*I will experiment with certain features to see how they are viable; for instance giving artillery and mortars ability to fire smoke shells; giving smoke launchers to tanks and vehicles so they can lay smokescreens; and experimenting with German NbK 39 "close-in defense" weapon (essentially it shoots a load of frag grenades all around the tank to kill/ward off infantry that manage to get close by)
*Will also look into "Observation Post" vehicles; essentially vehicles with binoculars, probably based on halftracks (may even give all halftracks this ability by default)
*Importance will be given to greatly diminishing the effectiveness of "porking". Artillery/Vehicle-launched smoke screens, removal of the larger artillery, and removal of certain units (Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger, IS-3, Turtle) will help.
*Experimenting with increased flag capture radius; greatly increasing flag capture ranges may yield surprising results (imho it is too easy to simply bracket the small capture radius with artillery to prevent its capture by infantry)
Along with these specific changes, the factions will be engineered to provide for varied gameplay styles:
*Germany: Addition of MG42 to every rifle squad will give them an advantage over the Bren/DP/BAR. They will have a relatively weak "vehicle" and "medium tank" stage but the most powerful "heavy armour/late game" stage. They will however often be greatly outnumbered.
*Britain: Will have the most skilled general infantry with highly accurate No 4 rifles. They will also get the Wasp, a Universal Carrier armed with a flamethrower, as well as the AEC Mk II heavy armoured car (armed with 6-pounder). The Commando squad will be the "best" Elite Infantry squad in terms of raw stats. They will also get the Kangaroo; Sherman/Ram tanks converted into APCs which will be quite effective in the early game.
*Soviets: Will exemplify "quantity over quality". Will have cheapest general infantry, as well as even cheaper Partisan squads. Will be somewhat weak in the early vehicle stage but have the biggest howitzer (M-30 122mm) and assault gun (ISU-152) as well as Katyusha to pound the enemy into submission. Also lots of T-34's.
*USA: Shermans. Shermans everywhere. Regular Sherman, Sherman 76, Sherman 105, Jumbo Sherman... US will almost exemplify quantity over quality; they'll have the cheapest infantry after the Soviets and be slightly less "skilled" than German units. Their early game will be somewhat powerful with their good amount of support weapons such as the Scott and Greyhound, but will have a harder time in the late game against heavy armour as their only available counter will be the M36 Jackson. However much is said of the fact that the US could often field 5 Shermans to every Tiger or Panther during the war and I intend to try and match that.
So wait, your great plan is to remove units? Who will want to play a mod with less units in it?!
From experience, the more "choices" that are available in an RTS, the harder it becomes to balance it all against one another in competitive terms. My plan is to provide for a more intuitive, more competitive gaming experience, and yes, this does mean reducing the number of choices, but will hopefully result in a better game.
Wait a minute, what about Japan?
IMHO Japan doesn't make for good addition in a ground-based RTS. There's just no possible way for them to work without seriously stretching the limits of realism. Type 95 tankettes going up against IS-2s? Have no fear, I do plan on including them at some point if not initially; most likely I will include some sort of "Pacific Theatre" modifier setting which will make available British, American, Soviet and Japanese units as were used in ground engagements in Asia (for instance the standard Sherman will probably be the heaviest tank available) so that they can be properly "balanced in". I probably won't include Germany into this setting, but might include Chinese forces (they, iirc, used a lot of older German equipment such as Panzer II's, Mausers and etc).
So what's the timetable?
No idea. As I said this is an introductory effort on my part, and before I even start I wanted to get an indication of how popular this type of mod would be with the community (ie you guys) and, of course, get some feedback on my ideas before I start. I do however have what I believe is an ample "skill set" to see this through; I can model, texture and "text monkey" just fine. At this stage my primary concern is learning Men of War's engine features and archiving/game file organization system.
So, long-winded post over. Feedback/suggestions/flames GO.
So, having experience with this, and wanting to familiarize myself with MoW modding in general, I've decided to make just such a mod.
That's great? So.. what exactly do you mean?
Well, there are two primary concerns I have with Men of War as it stands.
First, there are too many units. Now don't get me wrong; I love playing around with each and every one of them and I appreciate the passion that goes into researching various weapons and vehicles. But from a purely competitive standpoint, this leaves quite a few units which are either essentially identical to another available unit, or are so lacking in a tangible role that they're never used.
Second, I've noticed a worrying trend in how most multiplayer games end and certain "problems" with how certain factions are balanced towards one another. For instance, the German Tiger II, Sturmtiger, Jagdtiger and Hummel are essentially uncounterable, and while nobody can deny the awesomeness of sending a 380mm rocket-shell arcing across the sky and eradicating an entire city block, it isn't that great for competitive gameplay when other factions literally have no way of responding.
A third and more minor contention is the "experimental/super units" such as the IS-3, Centurion, Turtle and T-29. Again, it's very cool to play with them, but far too many multiplayer games end up with Tiger II's facing IS-3's facing Centurions facing T-29s.
I see.. so what are your plans?
Twofold. First will be a redesign of unit availability to re-prioritize faction strengths and weaknesses. Second will be a "role-call", combining and/or adding specific roles for units and factions.
Can you elaborate more on what these changes will/might be?
Essentially I'll be taking each faction, looking at each unit type (Infantry, Guns, Light Vehicles, Medium/Heavy Vehicles, Self-Propelled etc) and removing, adding or amending features to provide for a more definitive balancing perspective. Some changes will be universal; for example, infantry squads will be increased to 8; all rifle squads will receive a single MG/LMG (MG42, Bren, BAR, DP). Below is a list of the more drastic changes;
*All Rifle/Assault Squads increased to 8;
*All Rifle Squads will get a single MG (MG42/BAR/Bren/DP); this is to help boost Rifle Squad importance, as Rifles are often ignored in favour of Assault Squads.
*German Assault Squad will get ~2 StG 44's
*German AT Rifle replaced with Granatbusche; AT fitted with rifle grenade launcher
*Scout and Officer roles combined (and made cheaper)
*Soviets will get "Partisan/Guerilla" squad; adept at sneaking and setting ambushes (Molotovs) but will fold against hard opposition
*US will get .50 cal M2HB.
*Only 1 special infantry squad per faction; Waffen SS (StG 44's and G43's), Commandos (Stens & Explosives), Guards Infantry (PPSH's and SVT-40s and body armour), and US Airborne (M1 Carbines). Each special infantry squad will come with a "Marksman"; unlike the Sniper he can't scout or have special sniper aim but will be highly accurate at long range nonetheless.
*Special Infantry Squad will be priced accordingly so that it is infact a Special Infantry Squad and not provide an absolute replacement for standard squads.
*Heavy (~150-155mm and larger) Artillery replaced with more "managable" 105mm artillery (ie leFH 18, M2 105mm, 25-Pounder, M-20).
*Prices will be re-calculated across the board so that games do not devolve into simply spamming the best unit; light vehicles and light/medium tanks will still be important and used in the late game.
*I will experiment with certain features to see how they are viable; for instance giving artillery and mortars ability to fire smoke shells; giving smoke launchers to tanks and vehicles so they can lay smokescreens; and experimenting with German NbK 39 "close-in defense" weapon (essentially it shoots a load of frag grenades all around the tank to kill/ward off infantry that manage to get close by)
*Will also look into "Observation Post" vehicles; essentially vehicles with binoculars, probably based on halftracks (may even give all halftracks this ability by default)
*Importance will be given to greatly diminishing the effectiveness of "porking". Artillery/Vehicle-launched smoke screens, removal of the larger artillery, and removal of certain units (Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger, IS-3, Turtle) will help.
*Experimenting with increased flag capture radius; greatly increasing flag capture ranges may yield surprising results (imho it is too easy to simply bracket the small capture radius with artillery to prevent its capture by infantry)
Along with these specific changes, the factions will be engineered to provide for varied gameplay styles:
*Germany: Addition of MG42 to every rifle squad will give them an advantage over the Bren/DP/BAR. They will have a relatively weak "vehicle" and "medium tank" stage but the most powerful "heavy armour/late game" stage. They will however often be greatly outnumbered.
*Britain: Will have the most skilled general infantry with highly accurate No 4 rifles. They will also get the Wasp, a Universal Carrier armed with a flamethrower, as well as the AEC Mk II heavy armoured car (armed with 6-pounder). The Commando squad will be the "best" Elite Infantry squad in terms of raw stats. They will also get the Kangaroo; Sherman/Ram tanks converted into APCs which will be quite effective in the early game.
*Soviets: Will exemplify "quantity over quality". Will have cheapest general infantry, as well as even cheaper Partisan squads. Will be somewhat weak in the early vehicle stage but have the biggest howitzer (M-30 122mm) and assault gun (ISU-152) as well as Katyusha to pound the enemy into submission. Also lots of T-34's.
*USA: Shermans. Shermans everywhere. Regular Sherman, Sherman 76, Sherman 105, Jumbo Sherman... US will almost exemplify quantity over quality; they'll have the cheapest infantry after the Soviets and be slightly less "skilled" than German units. Their early game will be somewhat powerful with their good amount of support weapons such as the Scott and Greyhound, but will have a harder time in the late game against heavy armour as their only available counter will be the M36 Jackson. However much is said of the fact that the US could often field 5 Shermans to every Tiger or Panther during the war and I intend to try and match that.
So wait, your great plan is to remove units? Who will want to play a mod with less units in it?!
From experience, the more "choices" that are available in an RTS, the harder it becomes to balance it all against one another in competitive terms. My plan is to provide for a more intuitive, more competitive gaming experience, and yes, this does mean reducing the number of choices, but will hopefully result in a better game.
Wait a minute, what about Japan?
IMHO Japan doesn't make for good addition in a ground-based RTS. There's just no possible way for them to work without seriously stretching the limits of realism. Type 95 tankettes going up against IS-2s? Have no fear, I do plan on including them at some point if not initially; most likely I will include some sort of "Pacific Theatre" modifier setting which will make available British, American, Soviet and Japanese units as were used in ground engagements in Asia (for instance the standard Sherman will probably be the heaviest tank available) so that they can be properly "balanced in". I probably won't include Germany into this setting, but might include Chinese forces (they, iirc, used a lot of older German equipment such as Panzer II's, Mausers and etc).
So what's the timetable?
No idea. As I said this is an introductory effort on my part, and before I even start I wanted to get an indication of how popular this type of mod would be with the community (ie you guys) and, of course, get some feedback on my ideas before I start. I do however have what I believe is an ample "skill set" to see this through; I can model, texture and "text monkey" just fine. At this stage my primary concern is learning Men of War's engine features and archiving/game file organization system.
So, long-winded post over. Feedback/suggestions/flames GO.