Microsoft not out of the flight sim game after all...

[Dano]

News to me, have I been living under a rock?

http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/

[SlipBall]

New's to me, interesting.:grin:

[Baron]

Intresting.

However, if that clip in any way shape or form resemble the actual game, ill be suprised.

Unless estimated release is 2020 that is. ;)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Funny how you click on the liks news link and you get the microsoft "We are sorry, the page you requested cannot be found." message.

I doubt the intro video is captured real time from the sim.

Cheers and hanks for the news.

[hellbomber]

However, if that clip in any way shape or form resemble the actual game, ill eat my shorts.

uhh hello, LOL! this isn't some back water 3rd world programing hack job where everyone develops games on 15 inch monitors and CPUs from circa 2000 , and take 8 weeks of vacation a year

this is America, we have knowledgeable programmers that understand DX11, and are just now getting ready to unlock the massive potential it has

[Xilon_x]

But microsoft developed only absolutely Fligh no combat no war no bullets no effect of explosion or effect and dinamic of crash.
Combat flight simulator not new product.
because microsoft not developed one simulator also combat and civil mode?
2 simulator in 1.

[Antoninus]

uhh hello, LOL! this isn't some back water 3rd world programing hack job where everyone develops games on 15 inch monitors and CPUs from circa 2000 , and take 8 weeks of vacation a year

this is America, we have knowledgeable programmers that understand DX11, and are just now getting ready to unlock the massive potential it has

Programmers that work for the same company that advertised FSX with faked Dx10 screenshots.

[philip.ed]

Man does look quite good. The environmental effects especially look good, and certainly the clouds are something that SoW should take into account, as these clouds actually look realistic ;)
Otherwise, everything else I have seen in SoW has nocked this for 6.

[Blackdog_kt]

uhh hello, LOL! this isn't some back water 3rd world programing hack job where everyone develops games on 15 inch monitors and CPUs from circa 2000 , and take 8 weeks of vacation a year

this is America, we have knowledgeable programmers that understand DX11, and are just now getting ready to unlock the massive potential it has

This is either a master trolling effort, in which case hats off, or just plain ignorance.

It's funny, because the countries who have a good reputation for producing scores of scientists that excell in mathematics, physics and computers are Russia, India, Pakistan and other "3rd world countries" like those :grin:

Sure, the US has things like NASA and lot's of money to build things, but don't knock the other nations whom upon the contributions of their scientists a lot of your achievements have been made possible. That's how science works, people exchange knowledge. When building things based on that knowledge, that's where competition and money comes in, but that's not science, it's the application of it. Cheers ;)

P.S. I wish MS would take the time to code in older machines and have to optimize their code in order for it to run acceptably, then maybe their products would actually run smooth on present day hardware.

[philip.ed]

Baron is speaking sense here. Anyone remember the promo for CFS3?

[Skoshi Tiger]

Of course, I did like the faided-out, sweat drenched Aviatrix in a mid-rift top at the side of the page. I'ld buy it just for that! That the sign of a serious simulation!

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

uhh hello, LOL! this isn't some back water 3rd world programing hack job where everyone develops games on 15 inch monitors and CPUs from circa 2000 , and take 8 weeks of vacation a year

this is America, we have knowledgeable programmers that understand DX11, and are just now getting ready to unlock the massive potential it has


Great job there dispelling the 'Ignorant, arrogant, head up his arse' American stereotype Myth there hellbomber. Keep up the good work. Might want to get a passport one day too while you're at it. When you're old enough and 'Mom' lets you travel, of course. :grin:

@Blackdog, well done in redeeming your fellow countrymen, ~S~ :grin:

[HFC_Dolphin]

This video causes "WOW" effect :-)

[Blackdog_kt]

@Blackdog, well done in redeeming your fellow countrymen, ~S~ :grin:

Thank you for considering my English good enough to pass as an American, but i'm actually Greek :)

[mazex]

Well, adding a "babe" with a headset on the marketing site and skipping "simulator" from the old worn in brand gotta say something about what we can expect from this title. M$ are now desperate after initially failing to understand the social networking Web 2.0 buzz so they will probably do some insane mash-up of a flight sim and facebook...

C'mon Oleg - do an ad site for SoW with a hot WAAF babe to counter their move!

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Thank you for considering my English good enough to pass as an American, but i'm actually Greek :)

Aieee! Yes I missed the 'your' part and read 'our', just skimmed it. I always thought you were American though....Strange that. Your English is superb btw......which should have made me suspicious anyway come to think of it. Kidding my Yank friends, chill! :grin::grin::grin:

On topic, does anyone know if the same team they fired back in 2009 are working on this, and have been rehired? The mind boggles. I hope they are not 'dumbing down' the title to appeal to the lowest common denominator just to make it more popular.....that would be a shame.

The fact they have dropped 'Simulator' from the title does not bode well methinks. Unless they are just trying to be 'Hip' and re-brand. I can see it now, a mission to rescue rapper 'Jay-Z' from a towering skyscraper inferno, and transport him to his next 'gig' in a Harrier Jump Jet. Get da kidz wit it! :grin:

[Viking]

So far I have bought most, if not all, of M$ flightsims and they have all, without exception, failed to impress me. Prove me wrong this time and I will be happy! We need more of this in order to keep the interest for this kind of software living.

Besides, if this leads to another “fight flight sim”, I am very curious to see how the Grumman “problem” will be handled.

Regards
Viking

[Meusli]

One Bullshot video does not give us enough to go on, but I like to speculate!
I think the one thing that Flight Sim X had going for it was the missions, they were fun and varied. This is where I think this is going, a smaller world with more detail and missions to complete in that world. It will make it more of a game than a Sim which is what happens when you get rid of your Sim related staff.

[IceFire]

I always felt that Flight Sim had the sim aspects of the navigation and ATC and that sort of thing down but flying always seemed kind of flat and uninteresting compared to IL-2 or LOMAC's flight modeling. When flying a plane like a Cessna, which I actually have a few real life minutes at the controls of, it never really felt like I was flying anything.

The scenery was nice anyways.

So I could hope for a more visceral flight modeling experience with the sights and sounds correct along with the feel of the aircraft. Even if it is a smaller world... that'd be ok. If they get the "flight" part of Flight done properly that'd be great. For the time being I sometimes just set myself up in some sort of aircraft in IL-2 and go sight seeing on some of the newer maps. You never know what you'll find flying around just enjoying the sensation of flight.

[Splitter]

There are two eagerly anticipated sims coming out in the near future: SoW and X-Plane10. It would be just like Microsoft to wait until these games are released, take all the good ideas contained therein, and release a sim of their own.

MS Flight Sim dominated the "flight sim" market for years. X-Plane was the "Apple" of flight sims in that it had a fairly small and very dedicated following. It's also a better flight sim, IMHO having played both (uglier, but the navigation and flight models are superior).

IL-2 garnered a huge following and took a big chunk out of MS's combat flight sim's audience.

Then MS laid off their flight sim staff. I had heard that Austin (X-Plane's owner) has tried to get them on board, but it didn't work out. It was either a money thing or a very long non-compete agreement. That's my guess anyway.

While I have come to love IL-2 recently (sorry guys, I was late to the game and had been dedicated to the Battlefield series lol), it's very apparent that the IL-2 flight models do not measure up to those of MSFS or X-Plane. It's just "too easy" to fly in IL-2 from a pure flight sim point of view.

Of course, X-Plane has been constantly updated so that would account for that impression. Unfortunately, MS Combat Flight sims stunk and X-Plane does not do combat sims for the PC/Apple market.

Those reasons are why I am eagerly anticipating SoW and hoping beyond hope that they get the "flight sim" functionality right (the graphics are good enough for me as they stand from what I have seen).

Those reasons are also why a company with huge resources, like MS, might try to jump back in with both feet. Put out a good flight sim (hah!) and then add a combat element and you corner both sides of the market.

Plus, to the best of my knowledge, many of the MS flight sim programmers are still out there. MS could take them back (might have already done so) and be working on their version of a flight sim right now.

Remember, MS is not known for their innovation. They are known to be very good at marketing and "improving" on other's innovation.

Now THAT, my fellow Americans, IS the American way :).

Just my thoughts, be gentle.

Splitter

[AndyJWest]

...it's very apparent that the IL-2 flight models do not measure up to those of MSFS or X-Plane. I've never tried X-Plane, but the MSFS flight models seem nothing like as realistic as IL-2s to me. The stall characteristics seem all wrong, and I've never seen a convincing flat spin in MSFS. Perhaps the latest aircraft are better, but it never convinced me.

Microsoft seem to be living up to their usual standards with their new promo video: all I get is a black screen... :confused:

[WWFlybert]

a bit more info here:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/203440/microsoft_flight_announced_loses_simulator_tag.htm l?tk=hp_new

[Ernst]

I would like they consider combat simulations too, then maybe Oleg and team, and even TD (with pacthes) decide to go faster.

Some concorrence is good! Things go faster, like in the war. The flight sim market is stopped, may this make it move.

[Splitter]

I've never tried X-Plane, but the MSFS flight models seem nothing like as realistic as IL-2s to me. The stall characteristics seem all wrong, and I've never seen a convincing flat spin in MSFS. Perhaps the latest aircraft are better, but it never convinced me.

Microsoft seem to be living up to their usual standards with their new promo video: all I get is a black screen... :confused:

I would suggest trying X-Plane (they have a free demo, ten minutes of flight). The flight models are generally more realistic, but it depends on how much attention to detail the plane maker had when he made it. ATC is bland to non-existent. Scenery is fugly. Expansion packs are fewer and further between but do exist (free and pay).

The difference is the flight model engine. Nothing I have tried compares. But then again, all of the bad stuff (terrible ATC and scenery) take away from the software.

Splitter

[The Kraken]

I'm sure that achievements, social network features, DLC and microtransactions will play a big role. Exactly what the sim community is waiting for.

Top it off with an annoying DRM system and we're set. Although MS isn't the worst offender in this area right now, but GfW Live is already annoying enough on its own.

[major_setback]

Thank you for considering my English good enough to pass as an American, but i'm actually Greek :)

To pass as an American is easy ;-)

So what are we supposed to be seeing in the video. It stops for me after about 5 seconds each time I play it..maybe there is another link to it?

EDIT: Got it to show. Not impressed.

[Tempest123]

"While I have come to love IL-2 recently (sorry guys, I was late to the game and had been dedicated to the Battlefield series lol), it's very apparent that the IL-2 flight models do not measure up to those of MSFS or X-Plane. It's just "too easy" to fly in IL-2 from a pure flight sim point of view"

Not really true in my opinion, I have some flying experience and of course MSFS is ahead in modelling aircraft systems and navigation, but as far a physics goes I think Il2 still has the edge. Now that being said, I'm not talking about add-ons such as accusim P-47/B-17 which are obviously much more in depth than Il2. I always wanted IL2 to be more of a study sim with more systems modelled and certainly a better CEM mode. Simple things like switching fuel tanks, or charging guns would be nice. From what I've seen TD has finally incorporated real navigation and airframe stresses, which will be great.

[Chivas]

That promo video is probably just another example of Microsoft bullcrap false advertising. Much like the FSX direct X10 screenshot and the CFS3 promo video.

I hope I'm mistaken, but they've had a very poor rep over the last few years. I did enjoy CFS1, but they went down hill ever since. Anyone that suggests Microsofts flight model with its "fill in the blanks" data is more realistic than the IL-2 series has got to be kidding.

[WTE_Galway]

Introducing “Microsoft Flight”

Twenty-eight years after the debut of “Microsoft Flight Simulator 1.0,” Microsoft Game Studios also announced the internal development of “Microsoft Flight,” a new Windows exclusive. “Microsoft Flight” will bring a new perspective to the long-standing genre, welcoming everyone, including long-time fans, to experience the magic of flight.

A teaser of the future of Flight on the Windows-based PC is available at http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight..



Sooo ... this is not for XBOX live then which was my original assumption.

[nearmiss]

MSFT is not going to waste money promoting something they don't intend to do. I'd be willing to bet the project is already significantly underway.

I don't know anymore than what I saw in the video in the first posting.

First I've heard of it, but it looks good to me.

If you look carefullyjust above the video you will see a news clickon. You can get a bit more information that way.

[WTE_Galway]

MSFT is not going to waste money promoting something they don't intend to do. I'd be willing to bet the project is already significantly underway.

I don't know anymore than what I saw in the video in the first posting.

First I've heard of it, but it looks good to me.

If you look carefullyjust above the video you will see a news clickon. You can get a bit more information that way.

Yeah the news basically says its meant to be a "Windows Live" online game.

[nearmiss]

That is so "LIVE" does have it's own issues

[BadAim]

uhh hello, LOL! this isn't some back water 3rd world programing hack job where everyone develops games on 15 inch monitors and CPUs from circa 2000 , and take 8 weeks of vacation a year

this is America, we have knowledgeable programmers that understand DX11, and are just now getting ready to unlock the massive potential it has

Just FYI, This American considers hellbomber a bloody twit, and will add him to his ignore list forthwith. One need not put down other countries to be a patriot. It's too bad that it's the biggest fools who shout the loudest and get the most attention.

Please don't consider this an attack on one person, but a defense of a whole people.

[Flying Pencil]

I am TOTALLY underwhelmed.

Looks all fluff (is that a topless chick on the right side??).

The fact it is a LIVE game,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_for_Windows_%E2%80%93_LIVE
suggests they are using the FS-X engine for online flying around.

IOW, nothing new.



I could be wrong, tho.

[Flying Pencil]

a bit more info here:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/203440/microsoft_flight_announced_loses_simulator_tag.htm l?tk=hp_new

After reading this and other comments, I am sure MS only repackaged its last MSFS in a different way, likely X-Box compatible too, to eek out some more $$ from its dead game (after all they fired/sacked/laid off nearly all its FS team, would cost them huge amounts to bring them back).

X-Plane has one major advantage. A company whose #1 mission is to make the best FS in the world, and not take over the world.


I wonder if Oleg may introduce a FS just to fly branch of his new game?
Fly Tigermoths, DC-3's (not 47), Vegas, Jungman, Ju-52 civilian, FW-200 civilian, Do-24 Search and Rescue, etc.

[bf-110]

Opened the url,but didn´t see any content.So why all the enthusiasm?

[zapatista]

looks like feurfalke has to eat another pair of shorts again !

what address do i send them to ?

[Troll2k]

They must have been working secretly in the bunker.

From another article:
"Very little is known about the game at the moment, but it is expected to see a release before the end of 2010."

Article:
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/microsoft-brings-back-flight-simulator-as-microsoft-flight-20100817/

[proton45]

Looks like a console game to me...

[Blackdog_kt]

AI can see it now, a mission to rescue rapper 'Jay-Z' from a towering skyscraper inferno, and transport him to his next 'gig' in a Harrier Jump Jet. Get da kidz wit it! :grin:

Hahaha, that's brilliant :grin:

As someone said before, this could be an expansion/plug-in for MSFS to facilitate something like a persistent online world, or a new product/modified FSX that will do something similar.

As for flight models, it's largely an individual thing for MSFS. I fly FSX quite often on a friend's PC and the difference between various aircraft is night and day.

The stock FSX flight dynamics are not that accurate. For example, flat-spins are impossible in the stock flight model and there are various inaccuracies with helicopters. However, FSX is surprisingly moddable and 3rd party add-on makers can and have used this to good effect. While FSX can't do flat spins on its own, there are add-on aircraft that can and they do it pretty convincingly.

Overall, i think IL2 is ahead in the FM department, simply because the stock version has all the necessary bits and pieces in place.

[kendo65]

...
Please don't consider this an attack on one person, but a defense of a whole people.

Almost poetic there. Nice one BadAim.

[Xilon_x]

i loock in FSX new tecnology to compare the texture immage of Google earth in FSX the program is Tyleproxy
http://www.edtruthan.com/tileproxy/tutorial/

Fsx is good beacause in internet i find all type of airplane in Free mode or Pay mode but is limited only for flight no for combat.

[hellbomber]

joek

[julian265]

Just FYI, This American considers hellbomber a bloody twit, and will add him to his ignore list forthwith. One need not put down other countries to be a patriot. It's too bad that it's the biggest fools who shout the loudest and get the most attention.

Please don't consider this an attack on one person, but a defense of a whole people.

Note that the post where he indicated he was trolling "for fun" has disappeared... along with mine, which was saying something along the same lines as what you just said. Random post deletion FTL.

[Friendly_flyer]

The sea looks nice in the short teaser, but I'll hold my judgement until I see what Oleg comes up with. Who knows what SoW will look like with all the bells and whistles.

[Chivas]

The sea looks nice in the short teaser, but I'll hold my judgement until I see what Oleg comes up with. Who knows what SoW will look like with all the bells and whistles.

Yes the water does look very good in the Microsoft teaser, but Microsoft has a history of grossly over hyping the graphic quality of their sims. I know I won't believe any of this until I see actual ingame videos from users.

[Flyby]

If it's a reworked FSX that won't be too bad. I don't expect a combat sim. I do expect the new sim to be coded for multi-core processors. I think MS got faked out when FSX came out. No doubt the thinking was that Intel would come out with a 6ghz processor one day so that FSX could be run in all it's glory. Psyche!!

MS did close it's flight sim department some time ago, iirc. So jumping back in must be in the accountants' realm of practicality. Now if they accidentally spit out CFS4 I might be interested in buying it.
Flyby out

[WTE_Galway]

MS did close it's flight sim department some time ago, iirc. So jumping back in must be in the accountants' realm of practicality.


yeah .. but that old lot were wasting time and money trying to build an actual simulator, whereas what Accounts and Marketing wanted was superficial and pretty and runnable on any generic PC with built in graphics (you know like magic School Bus with wings). They just had to go :D

[nearmiss]

No sense to get any excitement until something happens. One thing is sure, MSFT will keep you informed. MSFT will promote the wazoo out of it as soon as they have more to tell.

[Tree_UK]

wow looks really good and they are already on the marketing trail, I imagine this will be on the shelves sooner than we think.

[Immermann]

The pile of crap that is FSX makes me not want to buy this (for one thing, try to fly knife edge with the Extra). A promo video rarely says anything about the real game.

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Ever flown MSCFS on Lan? We tried to fly it because of the Spitfires at that time. All of us were flying over Normandy, some in nice clear weather, one flew next to us, but flew in hail and thunder others flew between mountains just 20mtr apart of us. We even saw players in thin air.. only prop and pilot whizzing by (stealth?). Same for the 'FS' series. All flying over Leeuwarden the Netherlands and half over the mountains (!), I'm not even mentioning the 'crates' sinking in the concrete runways.

[FAE_Cazador]

I use Mozilla Firefox, and every time I've tried to open the video from that website, XP insists in installing Windows Media Player 10 to watch it, in spite of having both VideoLan and KMPlayer media players installed (and not WMP10 indeed).

In my opinion, such M-S's persistant policy of forcing me to use their products would be alone a good reason to not to purchase such "Flight" thing, whatever it is. :)

I had enough flying CFS1 years ago (my first online Sim), then enjoying CFS2 (the best at that time, IMHO, till savage modding spreaded on line) and being disappointed with CFS3 :(

Fortunately, we have IL2 and will have SOW. Who needs another M-S Flying crap?

[julian265]

In my opinion, such M-S's persistant policy of forcing me to use their products would be alone a good reason to not to purchase such "Flight" thing, whatever it is. :)

I used a downloader (either downthemall or download helper) to bring in the wmv file, as it was un-watchable for me whilst been streamed. I could then open it in another player.

[Antoninus]

The trailer is available on youtube since several days.

[Meusli]

I use Mozilla Firefox, and every time I've tried to open the video from that website, XP insists in installing Windows Media Player 10 to watch it, in spite of having both VideoLan and KMPlayer media players installed (and not WMP10 indeed).

In my opinion, such M-S's persistant policy of forcing me to use their products would be alone a good reason to not to purchase such "Flight" thing, whatever it is. :)

I had enough flying CFS1 years ago (my first online Sim), then enjoying CFS2 (the best at that time, IMHO, till savage modding spreaded on line) and being disappointed with CFS3 :(

Fortunately, we have IL2 and will have SOW. Who needs another M-S Flying crap?

Not sure, but you might need silverlight as well.

[WTE_Galway]

The trailer is available on youtube since several days.

lol .. that says wonders for Microsoft that you need to go to youtube to get a bug free version of one of their promo videos :D

I am not surprised. I have given up trying to get Windows Live to download and install on my win7/64 work machine, (I am assuming some microsoft snoop/validation software is having trouble with our corporate firewall).

[artjunky]

Even if MS-Flight is just being started today, it's my bet that it will be on the shelves before SoW.

That's not my preference but we've been looking at videos, Screen-shots and seen interviews of Oleg and SoW for how long, 6 years now? That's a bit of a wait. SoW has always looked REALLY good but IF it never makes it to market, what does it really matter?

I liked FSX AND we didn't have to wait half a decade to see it.

That said, I REALLY liked (preferred) IL2 and it would be nice if there was some sort of sort of official indication of when it's going to be released. 2010? 2012? 2015?

Really, when?

As far as MS-Flight videos not working, perhaps it's your own system that's not set up correctly; I had NO problems viewing the video.

[Ailantd]

Come on, I cant believe that you guys can´t recognice the difference between a renderer movie and real time image. That video is renderer for sure, not RT.

[Chivas]

Even if MS-Flight is just being started today, it's my bet that it will be on the shelves before SoW.

That's not my preference but we've been looking at videos, Screen-shots and seen interviews of Oleg and SoW for how long, 6 years now? That's a bit of a wait. SoW has always looked REALLY good but IF it never makes it to market, what does it really matter?

I liked FSX AND we didn't have to wait half a decade to see it.

That said, I REALLY liked (preferred) IL2 and it would be nice if there was some sort of sort of official indication of when it's going to be released. 2010? 2012? 2015?

Really, when?

As far as MS-Flight videos not working, perhaps it's your own system that's not set up correctly; I had NO problems viewing the video.

The last official hoped for release date is sometime this fall, but it doesn't appear to be likely. Hopefully by Christmas but thats also iffy.

I doubt very much that Microsoft flight will be out before SOW, but anythings possible. The Microsoft Flight video is probably as phony as their FSX DX 10 screenshot and the promo video for CFS3. Microsoft has been using blatant false advertising for quite sometime. Microsoft Flight is supposedly being released sometime in 2011, probably late 2011. Since they dropped Simulation from the title it could come out earlier as Microsoft Light.

[FAE_Cazador]

The trailer is available on youtube since several days.

Yeah I finally downloaded it from another website and watched it.

@Artjunky: Trying to see directly on the MS website not only forced me to install WMP 10 but, as I rejected that, my Firefox 3.8 got stuck and had to kill the Firefox process to go on. It's the only time I have seen such behaviour, I can tell you I have opened a lot of videos in a lot of websites with no problems :)

Well, and what about the video :? Just to see a Boeing Stearman flying by for some seconds, on quite nice waters and something like the "Jurassic Park" island on the background? (It also reminds me Oleg's funny island shown on screenshots posted months ago)

What does it shows? Vaporware, so far.

IMHO M-S has got what they wanted: just to make Air Sim community to pay attention to them again, at very low cost.

[artjunky]

Cazador,

It's just sort of silly now that it's been 5-6 years since talk of bob started.

Frankly, I don't care all that much when it comes out. It would just be nice if I had a date so I don't have to keep coming back here all the time just to make sure I didn't, somehow, miss the release.

As far as the video is concerned, with YOUTUBE, flash, and html5, there are a lot of things that are changing video formats. It's actually sort of amazing that we can actually play videos.

AVIs are falling out of use and it's really an issue with the drivers. Sorry to imply that you didn't know what you were doing...I was just trying to suggest that your system needs to be tweaked every once in a while to keep it working... Even then, there's no guarantee. And being on a 64 bit system, you add a few more layers of complexity...often drivers are slow to be developed in 64 bit...

[udidwht]

After reading this and other comments, I am sure MS only repackaged its last MSFS in a different way, likely X-Box compatible too, to eek out some more $$ from its dead game (after all they fired/sacked/laid off nearly all its FS team, would cost them huge amounts to bring them back).

X-Plane has one major advantage. A company whose #1 mission is to make the best FS in the world, and not take over the world.


I wonder if Oleg may introduce a FS just to fly branch of his new game?
Fly Tigermoths, DC-3's (not 47), Vegas, Jungman, Ju-52 civilian, FW-200 civilian, Do-24 Search and Rescue, etc.


You get a cigar. The fact that they mention Windows Live tells you a lot. Console. This will be for Xbox360 and a port of FSX with down-loadable content. No question about it.

[robtek]

It might be that MS:Flight relates to FSX as BoP/WoP relates to IL2 1946

[nearmiss]

The WOW and other online game popularity along with the large income stream from subscribers is a very attractive business model.

M$FT is about making money, end of story.

It would be interesting to read just what M$FT views in terms of a successful application - dollar wise that is.

[ElAurens]

Oh.

Joy.

I can fly around in a plane that has essentially no FM and absolutely no DM and wait for clearance to land, and stuff.

FSX was the most boring piece of software I've ever installed. Horrible ground textures, unless you spend big money for hi res stuff that only covered limited areas. Every plane pretty much flew like every other plane, within a specified type. No indications of the onset of airframe failure do to "overstressing". Just fly along, pull up and *boink* black screen, end of "mission".

FSX was a flight procedure simulator and nothing more.

But then I guess some people enjoy pretending to be ATCs and telling other people what to do.


I'll pass.

[TheGrunch]

Oh.

Joy.

I can fly around in a plane that has essentially no FM and absolutely no DM and wait for clearance to land, and stuff.

FSX was the most boring piece of software I've ever installed. Horrible ground textures, unless you spend big money for hi res stuff that only covered limited areas. Every plane pretty much flew like every other plane, within a specified type. No indications of the onset of airframe failure do to "overstressing". Just fly along, pull up and *boink* black screen, end of "mission".

FSX was a flight procedure simulator and nothing more.

But then I guess some people enjoy pretending to be ATCs and telling other people what to do.


I'll pass.
:mrgreen: +1000

Stock FSX is dreadful. Some of the payware stuff is really good, but that's not what I buy games for, to pay more money to make them fun.

@udidwht: BTW, Windows Live doesn't necessarily imply consoles, Dawn of War II (Warhammer 40k strategy game) uses Windows Live. And Steam. What an absolute faff on that was, especially since if you couldn't login to Windows Live (for example if their servers were down or even just very busy), you could basically do nothing in the game. Anyway it says on the site that it's a PC exclusive doesn't it?

[proton45]

wow looks really good and they are already on the marketing trail, I imagine this will be on the shelves sooner than we think.

Is a web site the only thing you need to become a "true believer" ? Maybe I have been following the sim world for too long, but I need more information about the game to get my hopes up... I'm disappointed Tree... ;)


Cazador,

It's just sort of silly now that it's been 5-6 years since talk of bob started.

Frankly, I don't care all that much when it comes out. It would just be nice if I had a date so I don't have to keep coming back here all the time just to make sure I didn't, somehow, miss the release.

I dont think you have to worry about missing the release...once its out their will be a flurry of reviews and advertisements. Theirs no need for you to check in here and get depressed... :)

[Tempest123]

Oh.

Joy.

I can fly around in a plane that has essentially no FM and absolutely no DM and wait for clearance to land, and stuff.

FSX was the most boring piece of software I've ever installed. Horrible ground textures, unless you spend big money for hi res stuff that only covered limited areas. Every plane pretty much flew like every other plane, within a specified type. No indications of the onset of airframe failure do to "overstressing". Just fly along, pull up and *boink* black screen, end of "mission".

FSX was a flight procedure simulator and nothing more.

But then I guess some people enjoy pretending to be ATCs and telling other people what to do.


I'll pass.


So true, I cant stand it when I change views in FsX and all the textures go blank, and then reload for a split second, the graphics engine seemed soo old, no matter how nice it looked. I found it helpful for actual procedures training, like VORs etc. and it was a nice tool to help fly circuits, but the only view that is useful is the big old 2d panel for that kind of stuff. That being said I'm glad MS Flight Simulator exists because I think it was a good (and remarkably complex) product to get people interested in aviation, and it was available nearly everywhere. As for what you do when you are done "flying around" in FsX, well thats what Il2 is for!

[Tree_UK]

Is a web site the only thing you need to become a "true believer" ? Maybe I have been following the sim world for too long, but I need more information about the game to get my hopes up... I'm disappointed Tree... ;)




I dont think you have to worry about missing the release...once its out their will be a flurry of reviews and advertisements. Theirs no need for you to check in here and get depressed... :)

I never mentioned anything about being a true believer, I did say 'wow' it looks really good, and it maybe released sooner than we think. You are reading far too much into my posts my friend.

[Krt_Bong]

MS Flight sims are just crap and FSX is on the top of the pile, even after Landscape and Aircraft add-ons it still doesn't hold a candle to just flying around in IL-2 for the feeling of flying that you should expect from a Flight Simulator. That is just my opinion mind you but with the current trend in computer gaming to give you a big tease to whet your appetite, release a barely finished product that has to be patched endlessly and then dangling DLC in front of you to keep stringing you along I'll probably never buy this particular product or for that matter anything that says "Windows Live" or "Games for Windows" on the package ever again "Fool me once.." as the saying goes.

[Dozer_EAF19]

Why would I want a Microsoft flight sim? X-Plane is getting good now. And the former MSFS third party developers are increasingly moving to X-Plane. The most satisfying FS experiences I had - flying IFR to real-world charts in an old jet airliner, talking in a quasi-realistic way to the air traffic controllers on VATSIM, can be done in X-Plane. I was never concerned with making the ground look pretty - the runway always looks beautiful at night!

What I'm really waiting for is for Nils to make a light airliner with the same quality of systems and instruments as his jaw-dropping BK117 helicopter. Had lots of fun with a HS.748 in FS9 but the panel of that BK117 stops me enjoying any of my old FS9 aircraft...

[Blackdog_kt]

I don't have FSX but fly it often when visiting a friend. While a lot of what you guys say and despise about it is true, i'll just say that it's enjoyable to me on a different level.

Sure it's buggy, heavy on the PC and expensive to bring to a decent standard.

On the flip side, the so-called DLC is not actual DLC furnished by microsoft, but add-ons mabe by small studios of hobbyists who for the most part are honest aviation enthusiasts. On my current amount of disposable income i'd be nuts to pay $20 for a single airport. On the other hand, the amount of data that needs to be bought by the add-on makers to make some of these packages is usually expensive, as it mostly comes from satellite photos and elevation data. So, while FSX is a product of microsoft, the 3rd party industry that revolves around it is not a plot by some greedy capitalists to dominate the software market. It's just a bunch of graphic designers, amateur or professional pilots and engineers that model planes as a hobby on their PC. If the resources needed to deliver a certain quality are expensive, then the add-on becomes payware and often enough expensive payware. There are however free add-ons that are still better than the stock FSX aircraft.

It has no DM, in many cases it doesn't even model what it can model (eg, some 3rd party aircraft have full complex engine management with consequences, some others simply state what to do but there's no consequence for straying from the operating limits) and the stock FMs are highly inferior to IL2. On the other hand, if i have access to 2-3 well modelled 3rd party add-on aircraft with corrected FMs and a localized scenery pack i can fly over my home town and the neighboring areas and it does look like it. Sure, houses are randomly placed and what not, but having flown a Piper Cub at 500 feet over one of the highway exits leading outside my hometown, i could instantly recognize the shape and contours of roads, hills and mountains. Of course that terrain add-on was payware and i didn't expect it not be, when the guys obviously paid for such high accuracy satellite elevation maps, even if they didn't want to turn a profit they would have to charge something just to break even.

At the end of the day, it depends on what i'm in the mood for. If i want to immerse myself in WWII history or even a fix of quick and dirty combat flying i'll fire up IL2. If i want to pretend i'm a millionaire with my own private seaplane, taking off from the local airport, landing in the harbor in front of the city's most regonzibale landmark to pick up my friends and take off again for a weekend on the Greek islands, i'll call my buddy, ask him if he's in the mood for a co-pilot on a cross country flight, get a few beers and pay him a visit. It's the kind of virtual experience and role-playing scenario that you have in mind at the given time that decides this for the most part and truth be told, sometimes i want to take a break from being a pretend WWII veteran and be a pretend rich guy with lots of time to spend on vacation trips with friends. I actually find that i alternate between the two and almost never fly both during the same stretch of time, FSX is simply for relaxing from combat while occupying myself with other things that are no less equally challenging sometimes. Sometimes it's easier for me to dogfight P51s in a Fw190 at 10km, than flying a DME-arc approach on one of the local airports at night with bad weather. It's just the old apples and oranges comparison :grin:

I don't own FSX but that's because i've been spoiled by what i've seen and the cost of suddenly bringing a stock installation to that level would be way too much. If it was a more well-rounded product out of the box, i had more money to spare on add-ons or i could get a bundle deal on some add-ons (yes, some really are that good to have because the stock game is in fact problematic in many regards) i would probably be flying it on my own PC about half the time i'm spending on IL2.

To make it short, FSX in general is not crap. Stock FSX is crap because MS released a buggy and unfinished product. A modded FSX with a reasonable collection of free and payware add-ons however, while not excellent, can be quite good and certainly above average and if you are picky about what to install it won't break your piggy-bank either. For example, my buddy uses some freeware mods that improve the look of Greek coastlines since we mostly fly island hopping in small aircraft, there's a 40Gb add-on depicting the entire country of Netherlands and it's totally free and so on.

That's why i'm excited to see what kind of capabilities SoW will have in regards to drawing in the civilian sim crowd. For every 10 payware add-ons and 10 low quality freeware ones, there's usually a couple of high quality freeware packages that are equal to or better than the payware ones. Since FSX is now an unsupported platform, it would be silly to let whatever 3rd party talent there is to go to waste. Much better to draw them in and have them working on SoW. ;)

[Dozer_EAF19]

Blackdog, I agree completely. Every one of your posts seems to be excellently written. Are you a professional writer?

The civil flight sims (MS and X-Plane) shouldn't be regarded as a finished product straight out the box. They're more like a second operating system for your computer. A PC with Windows and nothing else is pretty stupid, using Notepad and Solitaire and Internet Explorer. Same with FSn and X-Plane. You need to invest the time and sometimes money in getting the specific software to do what you want to do. But a flight simulator with a load of stuff installed into it is a lot more fun than a PC operating system :-)

The problem I found is - maybe I'm a bit too compulsive - I end up spending more time finding, downloading, installing, maintaining, and talking on forums about the addons than I actually would spend flying and enjoying myself. But that's my own bad discipline and inability to recognise the things I do and don't enjoy in life :-)

[robtek]

As we are getting IFR, ok, rudimentarely, in 4.10 i am pretty shure that we will have NDB's and other radio-navigation aids in BoB:SoW.
From there it is but a small step to pre-war airliners like Ju52, Fw200, Ju G38, DC3, DC2, Ford Trimotor and so on.
As this game-engine will be used for the korean theater as well we will have jet engines an more IFR-aids, that might lead to super-connie, strato-ctuiser, comet, 707 and so on.
As third party developers are possible, i don't see why there shouldn't be a civil simulation with detailed maps, realistic FM and DM.
The world is wide open, and i hope it starts this autumn.

[Flyby]

I hope MS codes the new sim to make use of multi-core processors up front and not as an after-thought. I think FSX, FS2004, and other MS efforts have their place. They seem to have large followings, and companies make and sell add-on aircraft for them. I own FS2004, and it was kind of neat flying from a local airfield and cruising the area.

I liked CFS3. I liked CFS2. Both were/are beautiful sims, and there are plenty of 1% planes to add, and expand the enjoyment of these sims. CFS3 could have used coding for multi-core processors (if they were around). Perhaps a new effort on that front?

There are only a few producers of flight sims out there, and fewer still of combat flight sims. Room enough for all, and to each his own flavor. Combat flight sim fans are such a tiny market, I'd say any company trying it's hands must have a huge set to carry around. I respect that. That's my opinion. I'm sticking with it.
Flyby out

[Blackdog_kt]

Blackdog, I agree completely. Every one of your posts seems to be excellently written. Are you a professional writer?


Not really. I just make long sentences explaining every little thing so that there's as little room for misunderstanding as possible, mixed with judicious use of the preview button for proof-reading:grin:

On a more serious note, i just happened to study/learn English as a second language when i was younger. From that point on, it was thanks to getting into flight sims and computers in general at the age of 12 that i had a constant reason to use the language daily (in written form obviously), instead of ending up forgetting it through lack of use.

[Dozer_EAF19]

haha, I find myself re-writing with shorter sentences in an effort to reduce misreadability!

[The Kraken]

FWIW there's some new footage on the site which apparently shows some in-game graphics:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/

Nice but pretty much the same as FSX which shouldn't come as a surprise. Of course it's probably all WIP (maybe they'll still add DirectX 10 effects :P) and who knows what kind of gameplay they'll come up with for their new "social gaming experience" customer group...

[KG26_Alpha]

Frequently Asked Questions
Q:
What is "Microsoft Flight?"
A:
"Microsoft Flight" is a new PC game from Microsoft Game Studios. The new title will be available on the Games for Windows – LIVE service and will bring a new perspective to the long-standing "Flight Simulator" franchise. From new game play elements and enhanced scenery and terrain to new aircraft and integrated content marketplace, it is an entirely new breed of virtual flight. The Games for Windows - LIVE platform sets the stage for all your virtual flight needs while connecting you to a global base of users, content and endless exploration. Microsoft Flight builds off its heritage of deep, immersive simulation and is redesigned to make the experience easier for virtual fliers of all interests and skills.
Q:
How does “Microsoft Flight” differ from “Flight Simulator?” Why the new name? What’s changed?
A:
With “Microsoft Flight” we’re approaching the virtual flight genre from the ground up, with the focus on the universal appeal of the experience of Flight. We believe the simplicity of “Microsoft Flight” perfectly captures that vision while welcoming the millions of existing Flight Simulator fans. The new “Microsoft Flight” retains the full fidelity simulation longtime fans have come to expect while offering all players a whole new look and feel, a wide range of new game play and challenges, persistent experiences and social connectivity.
Q:
How does Games for Windows – LIVE factor in?
A:
Games for Windows – LIVE introduces a new level of connectivity to virtual flight, enhancing both the social and game play experiences of the title. Content is updated virtually. You can fly solo or join an entire global flight community online. You can easily connect with and facilitate flight experiences with your friends. The addition of Games for Windows - LIVE creates an ubiquitous virtual world of flight that offers easy and engaging access to the magic of flight for all.
Q:
Who is developing “Microsoft Flight” now that ACES is gone?
A:
“Microsoft Flight” is being developed internally at Microsoft by a team that includes many of the same creative minds that helped deliver countless entries in the “Flight Simulator” franchise.
Q:
Why did Microsoft shut down ACES Studio last January?
A:
Microsoft Game Studios is always evaluating its business model to determine what is best for both gamers and the company. Many factors were considered in the difficult decision to close ACES Studio, but we feel the 2009 closure helped us better align with our goals and long-term development plans. "Microsoft Flight" is being developed by many of the same creative minds that shaped "Microsoft Flight Simulator," and we're excited about delivering a new take on this classic franchise.

[philip.ed]

Alpha, weren't those questions posted a while ago on the site for the afore-mentioned game?
In any case, thanks for posting ;)

[KG26_Alpha]

Well where'd ya think they come from :)

I really don't care enough about Microshite's next piece of bugged to hell throw at consumer and let 3'rd party developers fix our crap software.

I have had all their flight sim stuff from FS 3.0 to FSX

None of its ever impressed me as an out of the box fully working product.

And none of the pre release screen-shots and video garbage they spew out is ever attainable at the consumer end.

If Oleg did a Civilian Flight Sim he would clean up the market if the code was as stable as IL2 1946 not withstanding the new BoB SoW engine.

Would I buy another MS FS ? NO

Would I buy a 1c Team FS ? YES

[philip.ed]

I couldn't agree more.

[AWL_Spinner]

FWIW there's some new footage on the site which apparently shows some in-game graphics:

http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/

Nice but pretty much the same as FSX which shouldn't come as a surprise. Of course it's probably all WIP (maybe they'll still add DirectX 10 effects :P) and who knows what kind of gameplay they'll come up with for their new "social gaming experience" customer group...


My thoughts exactly. i.e. nothing to see here, it's just FS-X repackaged with some "2010" graphical tweaks.

They've even got some lovely blurry vomit ground texture around the tarmac on that trailer (although at least that would indicate it is actual game footage, and they haven't just made it up).

Deeply underwhelming.

I can just about run FSX with Orbx scenery and REX cranked up to a nice level, and I don't play it online, I'm not seeing anything here to get remotely excited about so I think I'll be sticking with that for my civvie kicks.

Oleg FTW.

[Doogerie]

I can see it now, a mission to rescue rapper 'Jay-Z' from a towering skyscraper inferno, and transport him to his next 'gig' in a Harrier Jump Jet. Get da kidz wit it! :grin:

Hmm now theres a question would you rescue Jye-z from a burning buldng granted it would make you aher but you would also be subjecting us to more sub standerd rap

[ElAurens]

The real pity of the MS "sim" is that Harrier won't be armed, so you could fix the rap problem, permanently.

;)

[engarde]

naah.

microsoft dont need my money.

when i recently changed my hardware due to a failure, and windows tells me its now not a valid copy despite looking at the receipt showing the amount i paid the vendor for?

i'll gladly pay for 1c:Maddox productions.

i'll only buy what i must from microsoft, hopefully one day that will be nothing whatsoever.

thinking of dabbling in graphic operating systems at all, Oleg? ;)

[scrope]

The real pity of the MS "sim" is that Harrier won't be armed, so you could fix the rap problem, permanently.

;)
Er, you left the "C" off the front of Rap.