Friday 2010-07-30 Dev. update and Discussions

[luthier]

Very quick update today. We decided not to show any more effects or any other gameplay elements until they're ready, so the updates are going to be very peaceful for a while.

1. We've optimized our trees. They're now visible all the way to the horizon.

2. All aircraft finally have tactical markings applied.

3. We're having tons of fun playing with crew animations, which are nearly complete. But we won't make a video just yet because it would also have to contain various SFX.

[mazex]

Great that the trees work now - the high alt shot of the Hurricane shows that it's starting to look as it should now!

Thanks for the update!

[JG27_PapaFly]

Absolutely stunning!

Just one little thing: the rotating props look a little flat.

[Skoshi Tiger]

We are not worthy!

[PE_Tigar]

Absolutely stunning!

Just one little thing: the rotating props look a little flat.

You mean like this:

http://www.zazbot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/cessna172.jpg

[Doogerie]

really really nice I really don't think i can wate much longer

[fireflyerz]

Here we go again...

[Foo'bar]

Absolutely stunning!

Just one little thing: the rotating props look a little flat.

Propellor side view is perfect. From front or behind it has to look flat.

[Robert]

Thanks Luthier.

I'm quite happy with how things are looking. Keep up the great efforts.

[Bobb4]

A simple question from me, will enemy/friendly/other player/ai plane's main operating surfaces move or will we be forced like in the current IL2 to look for othe visual cues that they are trying to sideslip, barrel-roll etc.
At the moment all planes do not seem to show elevator,alerion, rudder or other movements other than on the player controlled plane. I could be wrong but all the visuals i have seen seem to reinforce this. Please tell me I am wrong.
Other than that I have to say everything looks great.

Example
Look at the screenshots of the 109's in formation and the J88's banking and all the control surfaces look static?

[dflion]

Thanks luthier for update

Just a couple of things 'bugging me'

1. The Hurricane propeller shape is not right (I will follow-up asaspo with a couple of photo scans) from the book 'My Part of the Sky' by Roland Beamont.
2. There is no seat head armour plate on the Bf109's - not sure if this model had it?

Everything else looks terrific - keep the the pics coming.

DFLion

[Hecke]

The terrain on the first shot looks weird.

The trees look like they would be flat green paper swimming on the water surface.
They seem to have no depth from sight of the sky.


Rest is nice.

[philip.ed]

Nice shots :D

was PO a squadron code for the Hurri-bus? Also, how will the markings be done? Does the game handle the various sizes of roundels in place in 1940, the various underwing schemes, etc etc ? :)

Nice to see that sfx aren't being shown although it'd be great to see the development of it.

Will clouds be edited to have flat bottoms?

A/C models look awesome.

[rakinroll]

Thanks Luthier. Btw, i agree with Hecke.

The terrain on the first shot looks weird.

The trees look like they would be flat green paper swimming on the water surface.
They seem to have no depth from sight of the sky.


Rest is nice.

[Tree_UK]

Aircraft models look good, terrain still looks like a cartoon well to me it does, but I do appreciate this is still early in development.

A great question though from Bobb4 i am also hoping that the AI control surfaces will move.

[JVM]

A simple question from me, will enemy/friendly/other player/ai plane's main operating surfaces move or will we be forced like in the current IL2 to look for othe visual cues that they are trying to sideslip, barrel-roll etc.
At the moment all planes do not seem to show elevator,alerion, rudder or other movements other than on the player controlled plane. I could be wrong but all the visuals i have seen seem to reinforce this. Please tell me I am wrong.
Other than that I have to say everything looks great.

Example
Look at the screenshots of the 109's in formation and the J88's banking and all the control surfaces look static?

That is exactly as it should be: you cannot really "see" in flight the movements or determine in a meaningful way the position of the operating surfaces.
For some strange reasons the movements in Il2 are exaggerated beyond belief and may give you a wrong impression this is normal: it is not!

Anybody having ever flown an aircraft or observed other aircraft maneuvering would tell you that the kind of operating surface travel "to the stops" you see in flight in Il2 is unrealistic: such positions will only be seen at slow speed (typically beginning of takeoff acceleration run: you may need full rudder travel if torque is important, or full elevator up to keep the wheel on the ground after landing for instance), and also due to slow speed, in some aerobatics manoeuvers (but not combat manoeuvers: you would never go that slow for obvious reasons).
Using controls with the travels shown in Il2 would instantly overstress the hull and wings, if not breaking them right away...IRL!

So you should not expect being able to guess another aircraft sideslip that easily just by noticing rudder position, unless you have really the yes of an eagle! You would notice it as you said yourself by other cues, mainly the almost undefinable "wrongness" of its flying or the fact the ailerons are not symmetrical in a prolonged way: this is the only cue which can be easily observed even for very low control travels

JVM

[Sutts]

Thanks for the update Luthier. Simply gorgeous. The crew animation sounds very exciting.

[zauii]

Aircraft models look good, terrain still looks like a cartoon well to me it does, but I do appreciate this is still early in development.

A great question though from Bobb4 i am also hoping that the AI control surfaces will move.

Early in development...oh reaallllly?...
Anyway great update.

[Sutts]

[QUOTE=dflion;172629]Thanks luthier for update

Just a couple of things 'bugging me'

1. The Hurricane propeller shape is not right (I will follow-up asaspo with a couple of photo scans) from the book 'My Part of the Sky' by Roland Beamont.

This has been covered before. There were a number of different spinner profiles used and this is a good representation of one of them. I think I remember someone saying that some Hurris were fitted with constant speed spitfire units which were slightly oversize and required an oil collection ring to be fitted behind the spinner to prevent escaped oil from getting on the screen. I think this might be one of those.

[Bobb4]

That is exactly as it should be: you cannot really "see" in flight the movements or determine in a meaningful way the position of the operating surfaces.
For some strange reasons the movements in Il2 are exaggerated beyond belief and may give you a wrong impression this is normal: it is not!

Anybody having ever flown an aircraft or observed other aircraft maneuvering would tell you that the kind of operating surface travel "to the stops" you see in flight in Il2 is unrealistic: such positions will only be seen at slow speed (typically beginning of takeoff acceleration run: you may need full rudder travel if torque is important, or full elevator up to keep the wheel on the ground after landing for instance), and also due to slow speed, in some aerobatics manoeuvers (but not combat manoeuvers: you would never go that slow for obvious reasons).
Using controls with the travels shown in Il2 would instantly overstress the hull and wings, if not breaking them right away...IRL!

So you should not expect being able to guess another aircraft sideslip that easily just by noticing rudder position, unless you have really the yes of an eagle! You would notice it as you said yourself by other cues, mainly the almost undefinable "wrongness" of its flying or the fact the ailerons are not symmetrical in a prolonged way: this is the only cue which can be easily observed even for very low control travels

JVM

The other cues are fine. But the control surfaces are not moving at all period.
Be they in the air or during take-off and landing.
Pilots heads are not moving either, a very sterile envitonment. Luthier has talked about crew animation i was just hoping control surface movement would be evident by now.
Other sims (which i will not name) have already included this.
Four J88's in a right hand bank all with exactly the same control positions????
Lokk at the Hurricaine which is obviously player controlled and you will see the rudder is moved!
Not a gripe just a question.

[the Dutchman]

Hmmmmmm,haven't seen any good lookiing terrain shot from the air as of yet,i'm getting a feeling that's something they are struggling with.........maybe they should give Gaijin a call?;)

[TallBonapart]

Not much new "stuff" from the pictures,but thanks for regular Friday updates,they are very important for the community.
Btw how is game development going?Everything according to the plan,or with some unexpected difficulties?

[JG27_PapaFly]

Propellor side view is perfect. From front or behind it has to look flat.

You're right, but when looking at it from an angle, like in pic #3, you should see some of it's thickness, specially near the axis, where it is moving slower. I see they try to implement it by inserting some shaded segments into the prop disc, but it looks odd. I've seen WIP pics shot from the side, there you clearly saw that the rotating prop is thick, but now it's totally flat.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2943&d=1280475957

http://www.airventure.de/wow04/Hawker_Hurricane.jpg

http://www.airmuseumsuk.org/airshow/2004/Chailey2004/800/images/178%20Hawker%20Hurricane%20XII%20BE417%20G-HURR%20RAC.jpg

[Tree_UK]

Early in development...oh reaallllly?...
Anyway great update.

I mean in terms of terrain, and lets be honest we are not going to see SOW this year.

[Derzasi]

Sometimes I think people complain just to to show how "smart" they are....
C'mon is "just" WIP, let them work...
Thanks Luthier

[the Dutchman]

When it first was announced i was in my 40's when it will be released i will probably be in my 50's............my god!:shock:

[Hecke]

The only good point for me for not releasing the sim this year is that ubisofts rights on the name will end (as far as I heard) and so MG could get rid of these hijackers.

[Bloblast]

These pictures look like finished to me. Great!

Love the ground detail from above in picture 1.
Great improvement on the ground colours.

Those markings on the 109's look great as well. We probably will also get a technical officer markings.

[CrazySchmidt]

I hope all of you WIP, whiner cry baby bitches are happy that we all now have to do without real progress updates!

That’s what happens when you revert to behaviour similar to your first childhood experience of difference.

Jesus, what is the average age in this forum?

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Probably around 14...yes, sad we get restricted updates now. Great shot, thanks for posting Luthier.

[Thunderbolt56]

lmao...some things never change.

I swooped in...now I swoop out.

See ya next week.

[Dano]

Hmmmmmm,haven't seen any good lookiing terrain shot from the air as of yet,i'm getting a feeling that's something they are struggling with.........maybe they should give Gaijin a call?;)

Only if you want a very small area around you visible, my money is on Oleg holding back to stop others (ie; Gaijin) nicking his techniques. Ask yourself this, The current terrain may show technical advances beyond IL2 but it so far fails to live up the overall image quality excepting a few shots, can you really see Oleg releasing the Storm of War series with terrain that looks worse that IL2? Have a little faith.

Somebody give Tree a kick, he seems to have got stuck in a loop.

[zapatista]

Oleg & Co,

thx for the update !

the aircraft look great. good to see more groups of AI flying missions together :)

one minor question: how tall is the average pilot in BoB ? the hurricane pilots look a bit smaller then the average pilot would have been in ww2, with loads of headroom clearance (which was only the case for short pilots in hurricanes afaik). this might be a minor issue

BUT for the 109, either the pilots are VERY small or we have a a proportion issue again with the aircraft (unlikely since luthier said aircraft were modeled to the milimeter). BUT we know an average sized male pilot in 1940 was cramped sitting in the 109 cockpit, with his head almost touching, or even touching, the canopy (see earlier video posted on this forum a few weeks ago, showing modern youtube video of a pilot for an english tv show sitting in, and comparing, the amount of room and access to controls the brittish/german pilots had).

historically the germans pilots were VERY cramped in the 109 with little room (unless the pilot was "jockey sized"), yet they seem to have loads of room in the current 109 BoB cockpits

[Feuerfalke]

BUT we know an average sized male pilot in 1940 was cramped sitting in the 109 cockpit, with his head almost touching, or even touching, the canopy (see earlier video posted on this forum a few weeks ago, showing modern youtube video of a pilot for an english tv show sitting in...)...

Average size of a male human in the 1930s in Germany was 167cm. Most fighterpilots, like Galland and especially Udet were almost not commissioned, because they were too small for the military standards. Comparing that to a modern man with an average size of 176cm for Europeans is silly.

Beyond that: Totally agree with TB56. Same fuss every week. I hate missing Oleg or Luthier's posts later in the thread, but I tend to just read the first page of a thread and ignore the rest. Total waste of time and energy.

[Novotny]

Thanks for the updates Oleg. Sorry about the forum regulars.

[Tempest123]

Excellent! Love the aircraft markings, almost photoreal. Not gonna nitpick until I have the sim in my hands, I have never seen aircraft that looked that good (FsX included).

[Wutz]

Yes nice up dates very enjoyable to see! The comments are less so. You have the impression of a hoard of impatient spoiled brats. Best just to look at the up dates and totally skip the comments.:roll:

[Stukadriver]

I agree with you, WUTZ. I hope that Oleg and team stay steady in their excellent efforts. Too many wish lists and peculiar requests from the peanut gallery. If all were satisfied, the game would never be finished and there would be no commercial computer strong enough to play it.

[Bloblast]

The terrain on the first shot looks weird.

The trees look like they would be flat green paper swimming on the water surface.
They seem to have no depth from sight of the sky.


Rest is nice.


PFF, what do you expect, they have to make concessions.
It still has to run on our PC's.

Thanks for the understanding

[ivagiglie]

1. We've optimized our trees. They're now visible all the way to the horizon.


Thanks for the update, I have a quick question regarding the trees:
does your sentence above mean we will not see the trees "sprouting" from the terrain anymore when we get close?
(that's what we currently see in IL2 which appears to me like going from a texture to a full 3D model).

Maybe it's just me but that's a real immersion killer... same goes for the houses :(


Sorry if the question has been asked/answered already.

[WTE_Galway]

Nice shots :D

was PO a squadron code for the Hurri-bus?

46 Squadron, out of Stapleford Tawney in Essex.

They also saw action in Norway.

[The Kraken]

Thanks for the update, I have a quick question regarding the trees:
does your sentence above mean we will not see the trees "sprouting" from the terrain anymore when we get close?

The previous terrain shots with individual trees showed them disappearing after some distance, as it is not possible to render them to the horizon even with all kinds of programming tricks.

My understanding is that this update shows the most simplified tree/forest LOD that is overlaid over the landscape at distances where no individual trees are rendered anymore.

The fact that Luthier probably still uses a low-end graphics card on purpose (as announced recently) doesn't help the overall quality impression, but as these are development shots these complaints are missing the point.

[Avimimus]

That is exactly as it should be: you cannot really "see" in flight the movements or determine in a meaningful way the position of the operating surfaces.
For some strange reasons the movements in Il2 are exaggerated beyond belief and may give you a wrong impression this is normal: it is not!

Of course, a keen I could pick up the movement - especially if one of the aerolons picked up the sun for a moment. Some of us also tend to fly early aircraft and often end up at around 200kph for most of the fight. We don't all fly '44 and '45 BnZ.

[philip.ed]

46 Squadron, out of Stapleford Tawney in Essex.

They also saw action in Norway.

Cheers :D

---

Updates may be restricted but it's not as if we're missing out. I'd rather not see details which the crew absolutely hate and are crap than see them myself. When things are close to how they'll look, then we should be shown them with the added incentive that they can be tweaked until release.
put it this way; would you rather be shown a fugly woman or wait a month and be shown a beautiful one? ;)

[Avimimus]

2. There is no seat head armour plate on the Bf109's - not sure if this model had it?


In real life some of the 109s did and some didn't during BoB. A similar situation to the Hurricane. If I recall correctly there were at least two Bf-109 micro-variants planned for this sim.

[Ikarus]

Jesus, what is the average age in this forum?

+1
plus im sure many people here is playstation & xbox gamers and fly one hour of week in some arcade setings server in Hlobby.and now come here to say how to make the flight sim...pfff omg!!
and every time they killed from other pilot then cry cheaters hakers etc....:)
thanx oleg and tean for update continue your job!

[The Kraken]

Updates may be restricted but it's not as if we're missing out. I'd rather not see details which the crew absolutely hate and are crap than see them myself. When things are close to how they'll look, then we should be shown them with the added incentive that they can be tweaked until release.
put it this way; would you rather be shown a fugly woman or wait a month and be shown a beautiful one? ;)

The point about development shots (just like back with Il2 on the Blue Byte forums, for those who remember) is to see what they are working on, not to be impressed by shiny screenshots. That includes dead ends, half-finished stuff and reduced quality settings. I sure am still interested in seeing that. But maybe too many people are unable to put things into the proper context.

In other words, I sure feel like missing out.

[Hecke]

PFF, what do you expect, they have to make concessions.
It still has to run on our PC's.

Thanks for the understanding


Pff, hopefully i'm gonna love at you when Luthier tells us that they hate it more than we do. You are just a damn FANBOY.
But I can tell you, you won't have any advantage sucking up Oleg and his team.

For Oleg critique is more helpful than your "Perfect", "Stunning", "Awesome", etc: He can read it and gain inspiration and see what the potential customers expect.

It's our money that he wants and if you don't have any prospects... well, than be quiet because you're not any help at all.



P.S It's just small critique, not an insult to MG!

[Novotny]

These posts are NOT for critique. Do you really think Oleg posts updates because he's dying to know what a bunch of 14 year olds think?

[Hecke]

These posts are NOT for critique. Do you really think Oleg posts updates because he's dying to know what a bunch of 14 year olds think?


Do you really think Oleg wants to know what a bunch of fanboys tells about it?

Surely not, because they will buy it anyway according to no prospects.



BTW I would say noone here is 14, hm, maybe you but noone else.

[philip.ed]

The point about development shots (just like back with Il2 on the Blue Byte forums, for those who remember) is to see what they are working on, not to be impressed by shiny screenshots. That includes dead ends, half-finished stuff and reduced quality settings. I sure am still interested in seeing that. But maybe too many people are unable to put things into the proper context.

In other words, I sure feel like missing out.

Accepted, but then people are bound to comment on things that are bad in order for that aspect to be improved. We people are the main people that'll buy the game, so I feel that if enough people feel strongly about a certain aspect then the devs really need to look into it. I don't mind seeing WIP shots, but I think that people should be able to say whether they like it or not ;)

[jocko417]

The only good point for me for not releasing the sim this year is that ubisofts rights on the name will end (as far as I heard) and so MG could get rid of these hijackers.

Now that is the most exciting thing I've heard in a long time, if it's true. Ubi$oft has a long history of meddling with things and forcing titles out before they are ready, all to the detriment of the developer.

[Novotny]

Hecke, you're missing the point. Oleg is not looking for feedback here, he's just letting us see a few pics because he knows the community really wants to see them.

The arrogance which leads people to think that Oleg wants to know their opinion astounds me.

[zakkandrachoff]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2944&d=1280475967

that pic of Ju88 is just lovely :)

and what about more skins for hurri and 109 (i prefear without yellow;)). Them someone else will do it and will be a so heavy skin.

And i am very interesting to see (if will be) the nose art in planes:cool:

http://lodela.110mb.com/aviones600/612me109ecoldeoro.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2167/2051413855_6364101749.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3535/3776289524_13dae35057.jpg

[Tree_UK]

Hecke, you're missing the point. Oleg is not looking for feedback here, he's just letting us see a few pics because he knows the community really wants to see them.

The arrogance which leads people to think that Oleg wants to know their opinion astounds me.

Look at the thread title its called Dev.update and discussions, of course Oleg wants some feeback you plum otherwise the updates would be locked like they were previously.

[Novotny]

I believe it's more a case of allowing discussion, as per the title, and not feedback, which is not in the title. But anyways, I'm derailing, so let's leave it.

[Hecke]

Hecke, you're missing the point. Oleg is not looking for feedback here, he's just letting us see a few pics because he knows the community really wants to see them.

The arrogance which leads people to think that Oleg wants to know their opinion astounds me.



Just be fair to let people tell their opinion about it whether positive or negative and let Oleg decide what he does with it.

[philip.ed]

Just be fair to let people tell their opinion about it whether positive or negative and let Oleg decide what he does with it.

I completely agree.

[csThor]

Ilya - Just to be sure I understand that correctly: You can select the german staff markings in any colour you wish, right? Because they were always only in black & white and sometimes even just in one of the two colours (or even just an outline in some rare cases). Or did I miss something here?

[Dano]

I believe it's more a case of allowing discussion, as per the title, and not feedback, which is not in the title. But anyways, I'm derailing, so let's leave it.

Any form of discussion arising from the updates posted become feedback the instant anybody involved in the Sim reads them, the only way for them not to be feedback would be for Oleg, Luthier and crew to never read them whatsoever.

[Dude27]

Sorry but we are on a FORUM here, not a cold war CCCP TV... it's normal that people express DIFFERENT opinions, bad or good, especially when the shots of the week are far from perfect...

Like others, I truly hope the terrains will be MUCH better (more realistic colorwise, really different following the proper altitude, and with a nice atmospheric haze and weather effects, closer than the actual WOP reference in the matter - I mean the visual overall feeling to fly in an atmospheric real world at every altitude level, which is for me the strongest point of WOP)... SOW's Terrain is one of the area which is really NOT in par with the fabulous work on the planes with their hundreds of little details and the nice reflection's shadders on their painted metal surface.

There is nothing wrong to express an opinion... we just have GREAT expectations for this game, that's all. The fact that the release date seems very (too) close to see all these changes/finalization really happen is a bit disturbing for some of us ;)

[engarde]

Hecke, you're missing the point. Oleg is not looking for feedback here, he's just letting us see a few pics because he knows the community really wants to see them.

The arrogance which leads people to think that Oleg wants to know their opinion astounds me.

a perfect post.

if i could add something, it would be that the asinine stupidity demonstrated by faceless nobodys through ignorant demanding posts, and obsessing over increasingly detailed minutiae must despair the devs horribly.

must must MUST give the impression, however small, that no matter how hard you work balancing time with productivity with playability, groups of ignorant gorillas will pound out stupid ranting put downs to your efforts.

who wants to make anything for such drooling idiots?

if I were a dev on this title, i would glance but once at these threads and never more.

EDIT: or i'd sift through the thread for the prize stupid posts, and send them off to a ...."bathroom tissue" manufacturer to print up a few rolls to supply the office?

i appreciate Oleg posting pics to whet the appetite.

[Fansadox]

Where are the swastikas?

[zauii]

a perfect post.

if i could add something, it would be that the asinine stupidity demonstrated by faceless nobodys through ignorant demanding posts, and obsessing over increasingly detailed minutiae must despair the devs horribly.

must must MUST give the impression, however small, that no matter how hard you work balancing time with productivity with playability, groups of ignorant gorillas will pound out stupid ranting put downs to your efforts.

who wants to make anything for such drooling idiots?

if I were a dev on this title, i would glance but once at these threads and never more.

EDIT: or i'd sift through the thread for the prize stupid posts, and send them off to a ...."bathroom tissue" manufacturer to print up a few rolls to supply the office?

i appreciate Oleg posting pics to whet the appetite.

+1 Quote for truth.

[Troll]

Wonderfull work, on the first shot, the terrain colour is pretty well done due to the haze.

[Hecke]

a perfect post.

if i could add something, it would be that the asinine stupidity demonstrated by faceless nobodys through ignorant demanding posts, and obsessing over increasingly detailed minutiae must despair the devs horribly.

must must MUST give the impression, however small, that no matter how hard you work balancing time with productivity with playability, groups of ignorant gorillas will pound out stupid ranting put downs to your efforts.

who wants to make anything for such drooling idiots?

if I were a dev on this title, i would glance but once at these threads and never more.

EDIT: or i'd sift through the thread for the prize stupid posts, and send them off to a ...."bathroom tissue" manufacturer to print up a few rolls to supply the office?

i appreciate Oleg posting pics to whet the appetite.



FANBOY...

Why do you assume to talk for Oleg and Team.


BTW: What does SFX mean?

[Dude27]

FANBOY...


The most dangerous kind... faith zealots. ;)
To them: Open your mind and get a life! It's not just one way... :o

SFX: special effects :)

[Zorin]

luthier, am I correct in assuming that there will be two versions of the He111 in game? From the screenshots it looks like there is a P-2 and H-3 version.

[perproqra]

everything look great. nice fresnel trick with reflection on planes ;)

but the first impresson about pilots and proportions... these guys are just too small (maybe there is some geometry intersection problem when pilots are bigger)
especially 1o9 pilot looks like ewok in plane.


please compare proportions of head (helmet/headphones) with canopy

fotos
http://www.kurfurst.org/Engine/Boostclearances/605D_clearance198.html

video - lightly build modern pilot squished inside 1o9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YVei2Yb_k&feature=related

[Robert]

I think Oleg and crew have a good idea who the whiner/demanding types are. There's always a select few who ask or critique things to 'improve the development', but in reality they're just pissing against the wind.

(EDIT: I need to change pissing into the wind TO pissing in the pool. Now we don't get to see the full updates because of a few. Everyone out of the pool!)

There are ways of pointing out omissions and corrections. Many find it difficult to critique without sounding like children prattling around with their baby spoon, baby forks, and pacifiers.

Show me one improvement made by the developer at the instigation of a whiny brat.


Some of you should look back at a few updates and see the detail around hangers, the support vehicles, cities et al. Remember how great the Spit and 109 pit looks. Then ask yourself, with that attention to detail do you really think Oleg's gonna let sub par land mesh go out the door?

I don't think so.


You may think this is wild eyed raving from an Oleg ball washer, but no. It's someone who's watched development of BoB, and has seen improvements and increased detail over the last 6 months. I may not have liked everything, but it's WOP. It says that on every update.

Look at the progress and have a bit of faith that things will get ironed out to the best of their ability.

[katdogfizzow]

Only if you want a very small area around you visible, my money is on Oleg holding back to stop others (ie; Gaijin) nicking his techniques. Ask yourself this, The current terrain may show technical advances beyond IL2 but it so far fails to live up the overall image quality excepting a few shots, can you really see Oleg releasing the Storm of War series with terrain that looks worse that IL2? Have a little faith.

Somebody give Tree a kick, he seems to have got stuck in a loop.

Yes, I think most of us realize the point of the terrain shot was to show the trees all the way to the horizon ...not some final version that I imagine will look like 352's channel with no tiling and trees rendering for miles and miles in all directions ...wa wa wee wa!!!


planes @ water height...looking great!

[Flanker35M]

S!

Can't stop admiring the sleek lines of the Bf109E ;) :D

[Robert]

S!

Can't stop admiring the sleek lines of the Bf109E ;) :D


AHhhhhhhhh yes. Back on topic. I think I'm in love with the 109. She's sexy, sleek, and oh so dangerous..... (well not in my hands, but I digress).

[Ploughman]

S!

Can't stop admiring the sleek lines of the Bf109E ;) :D

Yes, that gaggle of yellow nosed fellows'll be my desk top untill at least this time next week.

[Mysticpuma]

Well I clicked on the images, then clicked again, then zoomed in and I have to say I rather disappointed by the paint scheme.

The 'skins' look very soft and lacking detail as do the surface textures of the aircraft. I had hoped by now that Direct X effects would be present so that we'd be able to see bump-mapping along with sharp detailed skins as the next generation is supposed to be 2048x2048, and when you look at some of the skins you get now from skinners like Cpt Farrell and Kristorf, the ones on the Hurricane and He-111 look soft and quite disappointing?

This, I know is WIP, but I had hoped that we would see some land texture, paint-scheme texture and bump-mapping by now?

So, sitting back and sipping the pint I mentioned in my previous thread....hopefully a video will be coming soon?

Cheers, MP

[choctaw111]

Once again, absolutely gorgeous!
I don't have the words to describe the absolute beauty of the things you are putting into the sim.

[jj_bravo]

NICE!

I was wondering if the game will support multiple monitors? Does anyone know?

Great pics!

[TheFamilyMan]

Bumping this:
Where are the swastikas?
+1

I remember some taboo about that for IL-2. Does it still apply?

But regardless, it's absolutely beautiful. This WILL BE state of the art CFS when it's released; I'll have cash in hand!

[Zorin]

everything look great. nice fresnel trick with reflection on planes ;)

but the first impresson about pilots and proportions... these guys are just too small (maybe there is some geometry intersection problem when pilots are bigger)
especially 1o9 pilot looks like ewok in plane.



It did look alright in previous screenshots, ut todays shot make them look like sitting too low in the cockpit. The way they look it appears to be impossible to look through the gun sight.

Previous = looks alright
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_shot_20100531_141445.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=shot_20100531_141445.jpg)

Today = too low?
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_shot_20100729_171440.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=shot_20100729_171440.jpg)

Original
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_Unbenannt.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=Unbenannt.jpg)

[proton45]

I'm excited about the fact Oleg and team are working on "crew animations"...I really like the idea of these fantastic aeroplanes being filled with moving and reacting people. I think it would be a nice detail to have crewman that respond to the changing tactical situation. Some of the details might go unseen (during the heat of battle) but just knowing that their is an (possible_hopeful_wishing) animation of the co-pilot taking over the duty's of a wounded pilot, or an animation of a the crewmen as they inflate a rubber raft following an ocean ditch...animations and activity like this will really add to the feeling of "reality".

p.s. I'm sure the movie makers will enjoy this added detail of reality...

[Necrobaron]

I learned long ago that the sim community, beyond most all others, has a knack for nitpicking about absolutely irrelevant details. I understand it's important to have as much accuracy as possible (it is a sim after all) and I want Oleg and Co. to put out the best product they possibly can, but most of the nitpicking concerns graphical limitations and things that don't make a bit of difference in the long run. I'm more concerned about FMs, DMs, and that sort of thing, you know...things that are actually important in a combat flight simulator. Unfortunately, those aspects can't really be conveyed in a screenshot, so I just enjoy the screenshots for what they are: Brief, momentary glimpses of a much larger picture.
________
Website Design (http://hostndesign.com)

[Bolelas]

I aggre with you mr necrobaron. About the question of moving control surfaces to be seen, question has been answered before in the forum, yes, we will see them mooving, but only close distance. in the today picture of the JU88 i think (not sure) is seen that elevator is not neutral.
Other aspect not refered yet is, if buttons can be programed to act not only as momentary but also as toggle switch, witch would be very usefull to cockpit builters etc.

[Mysticpuma]

p.s. I'm sure the movie makers will enjoy this added detail of reality...

Once we know what cameras we have?

I'd love a camera on the gunsight, but looking back at the pilot. This would be fantastic to record the pilot animations as combat ensues. A movie-makers dream camera that would be.

Cheers, MP

[the Dutchman]

I learned long ago that the sim community, beyond most all others, has a knack for nitpicking about absolutely irrelevant details.

Ah,but who started it?
How many updates have we seen that aren't relevant to a flightsim,eh?
I personally don't care about the "physics of a swiveling antenna on the rotating turrent of an armoured car"..........

[RedToo]

The 'skins' look very soft and lacking detail as do the surface textures of the aircraft.

They do sharpen up quite nicely in Photoshop:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/RedToo/x02.jpg

RedToo.

[Splitter]

The baron speaks the truth.

I think the development team is doing the right thing in toning down the updates. All they lead to is people nitpicking and asking for silly "additions". Plus, I believe Olegg recently conveyed the reality that other entities steal ideas and such from them. So why publish graphical updates for the competition and the ungrateful?

What update do I want? What do most of us want? A report on how progress is coming concerning a release date. Just let me know if the sim is going to be ready for the Christmas gift season. Is that estimate still on track?

...and you can't call ME a FANBOY as I just purchased 1946 and haven't had the chance to play it yet :).

Splitter

I learned long ago that the sim community, beyond most all others, has a knack for nitpicking about absolutely irrelevant details. I understand it's important to have as much accuracy as possible (it is a sim after all) and I want Oleg and Co. to put out the best product they possibly can, but most of the nitpicking concerns graphical limitations and things that don't make a bit of difference in the long run. I'm more concerned about FMs, DMs, and that sort of thing, you know...things that are actually important in a combat flight simulator. Unfortunately, those aspects can't really be conveyed in a screenshot, so I just enjoy the screenshots for what they are: Brief, momentary glimpses of a much larger picture.

[genbrien]

we are not going to see SOW this year.

would you please stop saying that in each thread, on multiple web sites... we kinda got the message

Thx

[Friendly_flyer]

Hallo Luthier and company! Very nice shots, and to my eyes the propellers look great!

The serial on the Hurricane is off though. British WWII military serials was not hyphenated, but simply a 1 letter 4 numbers, like this (photoshopped):

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Serial.jpg

If the serials are added as an actual code in an appropriate font, I suppose this would be an easy thing to fix.

[Blackdog_kt]

A simple question from me, will enemy/friendly/other player/ai plane's main operating surfaces move or will we be forced like in the current IL2 to look for othe visual cues that they are trying to sideslip, barrel-roll etc.
At the moment all planes do not seem to show elevator,alerion, rudder or other movements other than on the player controlled plane. I could be wrong but all the visuals i have seen seem to reinforce this. Please tell me I am wrong.
Other than that I have to say everything looks great.

Example
Look at the screenshots of the 109's in formation and the J88's banking and all the control surfaces look static?

Actually, it's clearly visible that the Ju88 closer to the camera has its elevators slightly deflected upwards, the one in front also has a slight upward elevator but it's harder to spot...maybe they've already used their ailerons to bank and they are now just pulling on the stick to make the turn.

Now, as for why they have the exact same control inputs, i think this is to save CPU power in AI calculations. Just like IL2, it seems that AI in formation tend to move in almost perfect unison (although AI planes still do wiggle back and forth a bit in formation, you can check this out if you engage autopilot and up the time compression a bit). It sure would be nice to have some variation to make it feel more "human", but it won't bother me much if it saves processing power for other equally important things.

[Friendly_flyer]

To Oleg and Luthier.

In all the screenshots so far, the RAF planes have had the 24 inches wide by 27 inches tall finflash. This was first introduced in August 1940, but was not universal throughout Fighter Command before December 1940 (the squadrons presumably having more pressing issues than repainting markings).

An order for tail-markings for RAF planes was issued in May. It specified tricolour markings in RAF paint colours, red forward, and stated that they should "cover as much of the fin area as possible". Thus, a number of versions appeared. These are all taken from photos of Hurricanes in 1940:

"Full" tails:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Full8.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Full10.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Full11.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Full13.jpg

"Cropped" tails:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Fullcropped65.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Fullcropped8.jpg http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Fullcropped10.jpg

Finflash:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Flash8.jpg

RAF flew with the various "full" and "cropped" tail markings all through the Channel clashes in summer 1940, by late September/early October perhaps half of the squadrons had changed, and some stragglers flew with them even into early 1941.

Do you plan to have a look at this rather amazing variety of tail markings? If so, I have started collecting data on what squadron had what tail markings, and when they changed over to the regulation flash.

[kendo65]

Concerning the ongoing debate about criticism, whether Oleg and co want it, whether it's valid, useful, etc, etc, etc, I think the main issue has been that despite being told again and again and again that certain aspects are WIP and will be improved many of us seem incapable of really taking it on board.

It seems to raise a real sense of panic in some people to be confronted with the 'work in progress' aspects - as if they can't make the leap of faith needed to really believe that it will really be improved and get better.

They then feel compelled to point out the faults just in case Oleg and co haven't noticed. Unfortunately, in most cases I think they probably already knew. Then we work ourselves into a lather over 5 or 6 pages, before one of the dev team has to step in to cool things down by restating what was posted on Page 1: "This is WIP".

(Luthier has taken to near-pleading recently "Have some faith in us")

I think the developers had an interest in giving us an insight into the current state of play in the development process, sometimes 'warts and all', but they always told us when it was so. Seems they've concluded that the strategy was more trouble than it was worth and that we just weren't capable of handling the WIP elements.

A shame, but I can't say that I blame them.

[Tree_UK]

would you please stop saying that in each thread, on multiple web sites... we kinda got the message

Thx

Well dont get upset with me I never suggested a BOB anniversary release date in 2010!! :grin: You have to keep saying it because there are a few on here who believe its going gold now whilst Oleg is on holiday..... honestly!!

[robtek]

And why shouldn't it???

[Sutts]

It did look alright in previous screenshots, ut todays shot make them look like sitting too low in the cockpit. The way they look it appears to be impossible to look through the gun sight.

Previous = looks alright
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_shot_20100531_141445.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=shot_20100531_141445.jpg)

Today = too low?
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_shot_20100729_171440.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=shot_20100729_171440.jpg)

Original
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/th_Unbenannt.jpg (http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/ZorinW/?action=view&current=Unbenannt.jpg)


I think this might just be the effect of the viewing angle. In all 3 shots you can see the pilots shoulders sitting above the canopy rails. To me this means the body position is probably correct.

Another factor to consider is the style of canopy. I too have read accounts of how close the canopy top was to the typical pilots head but from what I gather, these accounts were based on the heavy framed square canopy, not the lighter one with curved glass edges that we see here. Perhaps this type was introduced to rectify the head room problems? Dunno, I'm no expert.

[Bobb4]

Actually, it's clearly visible that the Ju88 closer to the camera has its elevators slightly deflected upwards, the one in front also has a slight upward elevator but it's harder to spot...maybe they've already used their ailerons to bank and they are now just pulling on the stick to make the turn.

Now, as for why they have the exact same control inputs, i think this is to save CPU power in AI calculations. Just like IL2, it seems that AI in formation tend to move in almost perfect unison (although AI planes still do wiggle back and forth a bit in formation, you can check this out if you engage autopilot and up the time compression a bit). It sure would be nice to have some variation to make it feel more "human", but it won't bother me much if it saves processing power for other equally important things.


My bad, just looked at the pic from my home computer with a bigger monitor and you are right. The control surfaces are moving. Thanks for setting me straight :)

[AdMan]

safe to say that terrain was not ready to have been shown

doh! :oops:

[LukeFF]

Ilya - Just to be sure I understand that correctly: You can select the german staff markings in any colour you wish, right? Because they were always only in black & white and sometimes even just in one of the two colours (or even just an outline in some rare cases). Or did I miss something here?

A bump for this as well. The tactical markings look a hundred times better than in stock IL2 (yes people, I know about MAT Manager), but it's important that the correct colors are used.

[JG53Frankyboy]

In real life some of the 109s did and some didn't during BoB. A similar situation to the Hurricane. If I recall correctly there were at least two Bf-109 micro-variants planned for this sim.

indeed! there was no "standard" how the 109 looked like during BoB.
the main versions were E-4 and E-1.

they could have the rounded or later canopy.
"external" windshield armour or not.
head armour or not.
rearview mirror or not.

its pure in 1Cs decission how the ingame 109E will look like !!
all is correct :D

[Skoshi Tiger]

You have to keep saying it because there are a few on here who believe its going gold now whilst Oleg is on holiday..... honestly!!

I also believe in Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny and the Soul Cake Duck!

Learning to live with disapointment is an aquired trait.

Cheers!

[Avala]

I think this might just be the effect of the viewing angle. In all 3 shots you can see the pilots shoulders sitting above the canopy rails. To me this means the body position is probably correct.

Another factor to consider is the style of canopy. I too have read accounts of how close the canopy top was to the typical pilots head but from what I gather, these accounts were based on the heavy framed square canopy, not the lighter one with curved glass edges that we see here. Perhaps this type was introduced to rectify the head room problems? Dunno, I'm no expert.

Thats a midget pilot. In previous image he brought his phone books and encyclopedias in the cockpit to seat on them. This friday he forgot them.

[dflion]

[QUOTE=dflion;172629]Thanks luthier for update

Just a couple of things 'bugging me'

1. The Hurricane propeller shape is not right (I will follow-up asaspo with a couple of photo scans) from the book 'My Part of the Sky' by Roland Beamont.

This has been covered before. There were a number of different spinner profiles used and this is a good representation of one of them. I think I remember someone saying that some Hurris were fitted with constant speed spitfire units which were slightly oversize and required an oil collection ring to be fitted behind the spinner to prevent escaped oil from getting on the screen. I think this might be one of those.

Thanks Sutts and Avimimus for clearing up my query, though I don't think the prop is right. I have attached some photo scans. One of the photos titled 'Scramble' on a French airfield clearly shows 2 prop types, on the others the prop is much more pointed.

[Blakduk]

indeed! there was no "standard" how the 109 looked like during BoB.
the main versions were E-4 and E-1.

they could have the rounded or later canopy.
"external" windshield armour or not.
head armour or not.
rearview mirror or not.

its pure in 1Cs decission how the ingame 109E will look like !!
all is correct :D

The case was the same, and to some extent more extreme, among the RAF units. Planes in the same units had a wide variety of different spinners, windshields, armour, even propellors. Early in the BOB some of the Spitfires went into battle with a two-bladed, fixed pitch prop- they were replaced in the field but consider this was the most modern plane the British had at the time. I'll find some photos to post that show the variation of the planes within the units. Also be mindful there was an extensive network of salvage crews who cannabalised wrecked aircraft to get airworthy ones back up to the fight- standardisation was a goal that was barely achieved.

I not as excited by the pictures that have been posted this week, but the comment about 'crew animation' has certainly got my interest!

[luthier]

Sorry I'm a bit late with the replies.

Ilya - Just to be sure I understand that correctly: You can select the german staff markings in any colour you wish, right? Because they were always only in black & white and sometimes even just in one of the two colours (or even just an outline in some rare cases). Or did I miss something here?

Yes it's not restrictive. Like in Il-2, you can set any plane group to be a certain geschwader - gruppe - staffel. Then, new in BoB, you can set any plane to be any number or a pre-set such as a geschwaderkommodore or a technical officer or a staffel pastry chef. Which means you can potentially have a geschwaderkommodore flying for a 6. Staffel, which would color his markings yellow.

We could restrict it to only historical possibilities, but why should we? If a mission creator wants to have green or red staff markings, and the game already supports it by definition, why go through the extra trouble of coding restrictions?

Where are the swastikas?

Russia recently passed a new law similar to the German one making any kind of Nazi symbols illegal. The law does not have provisions for historical context. 1C being based in Russia, if we were to manufacture a product with swastikas in it, we could be taken to court for Nazi propaganda.

luthier, am I correct in assuming that there will be two versions of the He111 in game? From the screenshots it looks like there is a P-2 and H-3 version.

H-2 and P-2 actually.

It did look alright in previous screenshots, ut todays shot make them look like sitting too low in the cockpit. The way they look it appears to be impossible to look through the gun sight.

It's all part of the animation thing. Our stock pilots are 175 cm I think. With tight cockpits like the 109, we have to find a fragile balance between height and shoulder room so they don't clip through the sides of the cockpit during maneuvers.

This of course has absolutely no bearing on player camera position.


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Skinning/Serial.jpg

Iiiii don't know what I'm doing, that's all.

An order for tail-markings for RAF planes was issued in May. It specified tricolour markings in RAF paint colours, red forward, and stated that they should "cover as much of the fin area as possible". Thus, a number of versions appeared. These are all taken from photos of Hurricanes in 1940:

We have all those variants. There's a huge jump ahead compared to Il-2 markings. I want to keep it the details a secret for now, until we're ready to show that in a screenshot as well.


Re: Hurricane prop. We stand by it. We've got references up the wazoo, it's historically accurate.


Re: whining. We do appreciate and welcome constructive criticism. We never claim to be flawless, and we really do want to see your feedback, both positive and negative.

On the other hand, the posters that are a bad version of top 20 radio station, with the same song playing over and over and over and over again week after week after week, that's just completely unnecessary. We get it. Fine. We're working on improving the sim on all fronts, so it'll either get corrected eventually, or if it isn't, you're more than welcome to resume whining when it ships that way in the release. Honestly. Once or twice is enough.

[LukeFF]

Russia recently passed a new law similar to the German one making any kind of Nazi symbols illegal. The law does not have provisions for historical context. 1C being based in Russia, if we were to manufacture a product with swastikas in it, we could be taken to court for Nazi propaganda.

So, can it presumed, then, that there will be one version of SoW for all regions that omits the depiction of the swastika? Or might there be a "hidden" swastika file like in IL2?

[IceFire]

A simple question from me, will enemy/friendly/other player/ai plane's main operating surfaces move or will we be forced like in the current IL2 to look for othe visual cues that they are trying to sideslip, barrel-roll etc.
At the moment all planes do not seem to show elevator,alerion, rudder or other movements other than on the player controlled plane. I could be wrong but all the visuals i have seen seem to reinforce this. Please tell me I am wrong.
Other than that I have to say everything looks great.

Example
Look at the screenshots of the 109's in formation and the J88's banking and all the control surfaces look static?

In IL-2 single player you can see these things. In multiplayer no. I always figured it was a bandwidth consideration... given the other items that are more important. Like bullets :)

[luthier]

So, can it presumed, then, that there will be one version of SoW for all regions that omits the depiction of the swastika? Or might there be a "hidden" swastika file like in IL2?

No there won't be a hidden swastika, and Russian legal climate being what it is, we can even potentially get in trouble if one is made as a pure user mod with no help from us.

I mean, lots of other Russian teams, video games, movies, books, etc, continue to splash swastikas all over their work and they don't get in trouble, but who knows what the climate will be in a year or two or five. We'd rather stay 100% legal, and that means no swastikas, no SS runes, no portraits of Hitler, and so on. We have a wide variety of historical posters for example appear randomly on our buildings (British in England, French and German in France) and we scrubbed out anything remotely Nazi from the German ones. So trust me, there won't be a hidden swastika feature.

[swiss]

.

[Zorin]

H-2 and P-2 actually.



Ah, ok. Cause from my references, the H-3 was the first to have waist gunners. Additionally, the H-2 was only build less than 200 times, while the H-3 was build more than 350 times.

And for both applies that there should be a forward firing postion in the ventral gondola.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[LukeFF]

No there won't be a hidden swastika, and Russian legal climate being what it is, we can even potentially get in trouble if one is made as a pure user mod with no help from us.

I mean, lots of other Russian teams, video games, movies, books, etc, continue to splash swastikas all over their work and they don't get in trouble, but who knows what the climate will be in a year or two or five. We'd rather stay 100% legal, and that means no swastikas, no SS runes, no portraits of Hitler, and so on. We have a wide variety of historical posters for example appear randomly on our buildings (British in England, French and German in France) and we scrubbed out anything remotely Nazi from the German ones. So trust me, there won't be a hidden swastika feature.

Thanks for that detailed reply. In the long run, it's not a big deal, as I'm sure modders will be releasing skins with swastikas on them within days (if not hours) after the game's release.

Speaking of skins, will the skins that ship with the game be moddable, or will they be hard-coded, like the defaults in IL2?

[csThor]

Thx for clearing that up Ilya. I was just wondering since my approach to a historical flight sim is attention to historical details.

Please remember, however, that a Stab was not part of a Squadron as it was superordinated to them. A Stab contained the command ofa Gruppe or Geschwader and therefor presided over them. While it was not unusual for its members to fly missions with individual Staffeln they were an organizationally separate entity. :)

[swiss]

Concerning convergence settings in SOW:

I would love to have an advanced settings option where you can adjust each gun individually, with independent lateral(sp?) and elevation settings.

2 pages from a FW190 manual to make it a bit clearer.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/290/fw190gun1.jpg

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7283/fw190gun2.jpg

[Robert]

Well dont get upset with me I never suggested a BOB anniversary release date in 2010!! :grin: You have to keep saying it because there are a few on here who believe its going gold now whilst Oleg is on holiday..... honestly!!

Oh, Come on Tree. You don't really think that anyone suggesting that were doing anything more than fantasizing? Do you?

[Friendly_flyer]

Thanks Sutts and Avimimus for clearing up my query, though I don't think the prop is right. I have attached some photo scans. One of the photos titled 'Scramble' on a French airfield clearly shows 2 prop types, on the others the prop is much more pointed.

Just to make things really difficult, The Hurricane has 4 distinct propeller/spinners throughout its history.

- The first production Mk.I batches (early L-serials) has a Watts two-bladed, fixed propeller with a small and quite elegant pointed spinner. This is what the No 85 Squ Hurricane in the picture you posted has.

- LaterMk.I L-serials had a 3-bladed de Havilland constant-speed propeller. This required a somewhat bulkier spinner, though de Havilland tried to keep the lines by making it pointed. It is the type of spinner you will find on the Mk.I in IL2, which is correct for the pre-war export version we have in-game. Here's a Hurri with a de Haviland spinner:

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albums/Hurricane/BB_2A60_1.jpg

- De Haviland could not deliver enough propellers, so most late Mk.I Hurricanes got Rotol propellers. These were really made for the Spitfire, and did not quite fit the somewhat slimmer Hurricane nose. This made the propeller squirt oil, so Hawker introduced an oil-collector ring behind the spinner. This was kept in later models, despite having spinners that fitted. In this picture, the closest plane has a Rotol propeller, the other de Havilands:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/Hawker_Sea_Hurricanes.jpg

- The Mk.II Hurricanes had a slightly longer Merlin XX engine and an all new propeller. The spinner was noticeably longer than the earlier spinners, and semi-pointed. This is the spinner that the Mk.IIb and IIc Hurricanes in IL2 has:

http://images12.fotki.com/v217/photos/1/133612/2680436/hur1-vi.jpg

All these variations could conceivably be found during the Battle of Britain (the Mk.II was introduced in autumn 1940), sometimes even in the same unit!

The Hurricane spinners shown in the development shots posted by Oleg and Luthier are all Rotol spinners, which would have been the most common spinner during the late summer/early autumn of 1940. I'd like to see a few de Haviland spinners too (simply as I find them more elegant), but the blunt Rotol spinners modelled in the screen-shots looks spot on to me.

[Friendly_flyer]

We have all those variants. There's a huge jump ahead compared to Il-2 markings. I want to keep it the details a secret for now, until we're ready to show that in a screenshot as well.

This I am really, really looking forward to!

[philip.ed]

Great answers Luthier, thanks.


See, Friendly-Flyer was able to present valuable info for SoW which may not have been noticed when it came to final release....
Clearly evidence that these discussions are valuable to the team ;)

[Feuerfalke]

Oh, Come on Tree. You don't really think that anyone suggesting that were doing anything more than fantasizing? Do you?

Why do you think he keeps quoting those statements? He's the one hoping it will go gold right now and is disappointed tomorrow when it hasn't.

Tree's a master in creating and destroying his own bubbles and even more in making a real fuss about it. ;)

[Tbag]

Thank you very much for the update and the answers Ilya. Would it be possible for you to comment a bit on the gameplay, especially concerning the campaign. Example questions: How is the briefing done? As you move from the training aircraft to the operational units, will there be aircraft familiarization and tactical briefs? Will there be newspaper articles? Do victories need to be claimed and confirmed in a campaign?

Cheers

[SlipBall]

No there won't be a hidden swastika, and Russian legal climate being what it is, we can even potentially get in trouble if one is made as a pure user mod with no help from us.

I mean, lots of other Russian teams, video games, movies, books, etc, continue to splash swastikas all over their work and they don't get in trouble, but who knows what the climate will be in a year or two or five. We'd rather stay 100% legal, and that means no swastikas, no SS runes, no portraits of Hitler, and so on. We have a wide variety of historical posters for example appear randomly on our buildings (British in England, French and German in France) and we scrubbed out anything remotely Nazi from the German ones. So trust me, there won't be a hidden swastika feature.


I find this new's, VERY disappointing, but I realize the position the law places you in. It certainly will affect the immersion level for some players, this one included.:(

[BG-09]

Luthier, it seems to me that the human model is smaller than it should be... The pilot looks like child. I think that we need bigger pilot figure. Luthier, please do some measurements and tell us is this a kid, hijacking militarily aircraft, or a fully grown man. The pilot just seems SMALL compared to the aircraft. I am very painfully sensitive about the pilot figure!!! BECAUSE THE PILOT IN TO THE COCKPIT IT IS ME!!!

NOW SERIOUSLY:
Luthier, and team, please look at all pictures of Hurricanes below, and see that even the pilots has bent their heads forwards, the top of the head of the pilot is still at level equal to the cockpit's roof! Now look at the picture from the current 30/07/2010 weekly update and see, that there is a plenty of room above the head of the pilot of the Hurricane. It is obvious then, that the pilot's figure is smaller than it should be! It hurts me a lot, straight in to the heart!

Please do something...


~S!

[Tree_UK]

Why do you think he keeps quoting those statements? He's the one hoping it will go gold right now and is disappointed tomorrow when it hasn't.

Tree's a master in creating and destroying his own bubbles and even more in making a real fuss about it. ;)

I am really hoping its going gold, but deep down I know its not - but thats a good thing if we see a superb product rather than an unfinished one. It will be interesting to see what the next speculated release date from Oleg is though!

[LukeFF]

Luthier, and team, look at this picture oh Hurricane below, and see that even the pilot has bent his head forwards, the top of the head of the pilot is at the level equal to the cockpit's roof! Now look at the picture from the current 30/07/2010 weekly update and see, that there is a plenty of room above the head of the pilot of the Hurricane. It is obvious then the pilot's figure is smaller than it should be! It hurts me a lot, straight in to the heart!

Please do something...

If you had bothered to read Luthier's replies, you would've seen his response in post #103 in this thread.

[Friendly_flyer]

I find this new's, VERY disappointing, but I realize the position the law places you in. It certainly will affect the immersion level for some players, this one included.:(

In IL2, there is a way to manually edit the campaign file so that you can make the whole squadron use a particular skin. If this feature is made s a tad more accessible in SoW, a user-made skin and such a feature would probably solve that problem very easily.

[ChrisDNT]

Sad, about the swastiska thing, I wouldn't have imagined that the "PC brigade" would also be able to operate within Russia. But just curious, who obliged the Douma to pass this law, the same lobbies like in the Western world or specific Russian interests ?

[tourmaline]

I agree with you, WUTZ. I hope that Oleg and team stay steady in their excellent efforts. Too many wish lists and peculiar requests from the peanut gallery. If all were satisfied, the game would never be finished and there would be no commercial computer strong enough to play it.

+1

All looks fine to me and one other concern is gameplay, you have to give up on realism somewhere to make it playable...

[Fansadox]

Russia recently passed a new law similar to the German one making any kind of Nazi symbols illegal. The law does not have provisions for historical context. 1C being based in Russia, if we were to manufacture a product with swastikas in it, we could be taken to court for Nazi propaganda.

Wow thats not good news... I have an idea though. I assume that there is a company lawyer? You could try and find out in a testtrial what thersult would be cause the context where the swastika is being used in your product has nothing to do with propaganda for the Nazis. That way a court could judge that the new law isnt intented to be used in this context.

Its just an idea but worth a try in my opinion.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Even if they find a way in Russia, they will have a problem on the German market. And I must say, as a German I couldn't care less about the swastika. In the strict sense, thats a party symbol, not a military marking. When the sim comes out there will be an explosion in custom made skins with the swastika for those who want, and I wouldn't be surprised if some nifty guy finds a way to enable it with a little program on the default skins as well.

[Hecke]

@ Oleg and Team:

Don't worry about swastikas, just make it very easy for us to include the skin ourself.

[esmiol]

@ Oleg and Team:

Don't worry about swastikas, just make it very easy for us to include the skin ourself.

like in il2 ;)

[Splitter]

As the Russians head down their fairly new path of freedom and democracy, I would have hoped that they would have learned from our mistakes here in the US. Apparently the PC brigade is in full swing there too where people believe that learning real history is somehow harmful. I had more faith in the Russians given their tradition of learning the lessons history teaches.

+1 on the option to set individual aim points for the guns. Pilots had differing preferences on how they liked their guns set up. I remember distinctly a former P-51 pilot saying he liked to have all of his rounds from every gun pass through a single point (he said the size of a quarter lol) at a certain distance for maximum hitting power. Other pilots wanted a spread, especially in heavily armed craft like the P-47 where the outside guns were set to converge further out than the inboard guns (or vice versa).

One of the advantages often talked about in the P-38 was that all guns were centered in front of the pilot with no need for interrupters and such.

Any hint on where the sim stands as far as being on schedule for a 2010 release?

Splitter



Sad, about the swastiska thing, I wouldn't have imagined that the "PC brigade" would also be able to operate within Russia. But just curious, who obliged the Douma to pass this law, the same lobbies like in the Western world or specific Russian interests ?

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

There is a very real reason for the prohibition of Nazi symbolism in Russia, being that Russia contains more than half of the worlds Neo-Nazi's (estimated at around 90,000).
These knuckle dragging Gorrilas ironically do not seem to comprehend that Russia suffered terribly fighting against Fascism, and that Hitler considered most Slavs to be 'Untermenschen' and sub-human (lol.....what a f*cking dick). I'd love to know what (if anything) goes through these peoples heads. Hate crimes against those from the Southern Caucausus, Tajiks, blacks and anyone who is not ethnically Russian, as well as anti-Semitism are on the increase. It is a very real problem.....not just in Russia but elsewhere too.

I would agree that in the context of a computer game this is quite ludicrous, historical veracity never turned anyone into a Nazi, unless they were f*cked in the head already. :)

1c are being very wise in playing it safe IMO, it would be foolish to jeopardise development over this frankly inconsequential point. It is of course a simple matter for skin makers to overcome this 'problem'.....end of story really.

Glad to see that things are progressing Ilya, some of the criticisms have merit but its WIP, you guys are probably tearing your hair out over some of the OTT BS comments. Constructive criticism is of course a good (and necessary) thing, but some folk take things a bit too far IMO.

Carry on, it will be out when its out and keep up the good work. Don't let the b*stards get you down. :grin:

[proton45]

Wow thats not good news... I have an idea though. I assume that there is a company lawyer? You could try and find out in a testtrial what thersult would be cause the context where the swastika is being used in your product has nothing to do with propaganda for the Nazis. That way a court could judge that the new law isnt intented to be used in this context.

Its just an idea but worth a try in my opinion.


I can just see the headlines in the gaming news... "1C hires lawyers to include/display swastika in new game". That seems like a reasonable way to spend the cash & generate publicity...lol

[kendo65]

Just what we need - having the game's release held up in a 5-year court hearing. :evil:

[Vylsain]

It's going to be like old Pro evolution soccer versions where Roberto Carlos was called Roberto Larcos... ^^

Svastika branches will be reversed, Adolf Hitler will be called Adilf Hatler and Hermann Goering will be Gernamm Hoering...

Seriously, that's a sad piece of news but you're right to play the safety !

[Richie]

I mean in terms of terrain, and lets be honest we are not going to see SOW this year.

Tree you would make a great opposition politician

[BG-09]

If you had bothered to read Luthier's replies, you would've seen his response in post #103 in this thread.

It seems you have clear view just as me. Let the force be with You!

~S!

[SlipBall]

In IL2, there is a way to manually edit the campaign file so that you can make the whole squadron use a particular skin. If this feature is made s a tad more accessible in SoW, a user-made skin and such a feature would probably solve that problem very easily.



Maybe...but this one sentience might mean maybe not...also it may even be a deal breaker for some of us

Originally Posted by luthier http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/images/styles/blackyellow/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=172835#post172835)
No there won't be a hidden swastika, and Russian legal climate being what it is, we can even potentially get in trouble if one is made as a pure user mod with no help from us.

To scrub the worlds unpleasant history, is the best way to repeat it's mistakes.

[luthier]

Just to clarify, the Nazi thing wasn't my personal decision. It was made after consulting with legal, and made at a much higher level than myself.

The Russian law is extremely vague. It basically says "manufacture and distribution of any Nazi symbols in any form is punishable by such and such." If somebody wanted a pretext to go after 1C, the courts would interpret it whichever way was needed. And not only would 1C be slapped with a huge fine that would dwarf any potential profits from BoB, the actual actors, most likely myself and / and Oleg, could look at a prison sentence.

So can we please close this subject once and for all?

[SlipBall]

I just slammed my door shut:-P

[schnorchel]

Just to clarify, the Nazi thing wasn't my personal decision. It was made after consulting with legal, and made at a much higher level than myself.

The Russian law is extremely vague. It basically says "manufacture and distribution of any Nazi symbols in any form is punishable by such and such." If somebody wanted a pretext to go after 1C, the courts would interpret it whichever way was needed. And not only would 1C be slapped with a huge fine that would dwarf any potential profits from BoB, the actual actors, most likely myself and / and Oleg, could look at a prison sentence.

So can we please close this subject once and for all?

OK, Luthier. I promise no mention on that. But can we have a feature to enable user add any symbol they like on the German plane's rudder, just like the feature of Geschwader emblem on the fuselage?

[Friendly_flyer]

JSo can we please close this subject once and for all?

Would it be possible to make the setting for the skin a squadron uses in an off-line campaign accessable to the player? It is possible to do now in IL2 by manually editing the mission file, but it require people fiddle around in the game folders where they normally don't go. If this setting is a made available from the campaign screen, Much of the swastica trouble will go away as soon as user made skins are available. It would also benefit people who like to skin themselves and have the squadron fly with their own designs.

[Old_Canuck]

When it first was announced i was in my 40's when it will be released i will probably be in my 50's............my god!:shock:

When it was first announced I was in my 50's .. I'm taking lots of vitamins and hoping to still be alive when it's released :-)

[dflion]

Thanks Friendly Flyer for clearing up the prop/spinner query - you are right it would be good to see some DeHavilland spinners mixed in with the Rotols.
DFLion

[swiss]

So can we please close this subject once and for all?

Yes, please.

So, what about individual aim points for the guns?

[Robert]

It's going to be like old Pro evolution soccer versions where Roberto Carlos was called Roberto Larcos... ^^

Svastika branches will be reversed, Adolf Hitler will be called Adilf Hatler and Hermann Goering will be Gernamm Hoering...

Seriously, that's a sad piece of news but you're right to play the safety !



LOL. Thanks for the jolt down memory lane. There was a non sanctioned baseball video game released in the states a long time ago. Because they didn't have the Major League Baseball Assoc. contract they couldn't use any real names - much like the game you mentioned.

I played as the Boston Red Sox and laughed at some of the names. The funniest was the third baseman's name. Wade Boggs was changed to "Spayed Froggs."

[Blakduk]

There is a very real reason for the prohibition of Nazi symbolism in Russia, being that Russia contains more than half of the worlds Neo-Nazi's (estimated at around 90,000).
These knuckle dragging Gorrilas ironically do not seem to comprehend that Russia suffered terribly fighting against Fascism, and that Hitler considered most Slavs to be 'Untermenschen' and sub-human (lol.....what a f*cking dick). I'd love to know what (if anything) goes through these peoples heads. Hate crimes against those from the Southern Caucausus, Tajiks, blacks and anyone who is not ethnically Russian, as well as anti-Semitism are on the increase. It is a very real problem.....not just in Russia but elsewhere too.

I would agree that in the context of a computer game this is quite ludicrous, historical veracity never turned anyone into a Nazi, unless they were f*cked in the head already. :)

1c are being very wise in playing it safe IMO, it would be foolish to jeopardise development over this frankly inconsequential point. It is of course a simple matter for skin makers to overcome this 'problem'.....end of story really.

Glad to see that things are progressing Ilya, some of the criticisms have merit but its WIP, you guys are probably tearing your hair out over some of the OTT BS comments. Constructive criticism is of course a good (and necessary) thing, but some folk take things a bit too far IMO.

Carry on, it will be out when its out and keep up the good work. Don't let the b*stards get you down. :grin:

Good post- I believe the most moronic thing i have ever seen is pictures of neo-Nazis in Israel!!!!!
I agree- play it safe, get the game together, ignore the clowns- it's looking good and the scale of this game seems incredible.

[baronWastelan]

Here's what a real Hurricane looks like. The SOW Hurri is not too far from this...

[Friendly_flyer]

Here's what a real Hurricane looks like. The SOW Hurri is not too far from this...

Actually, this is allmost what a real Hurricane Mk.I looks like, the propeller spinner is the wrong shape. It is R4118, while most of the plane was rebuilt using the original bits, the constant speed propeller had to be rebuilt from scratch. It seems to be based on the longer spinner from a Mk.II Hurricane, but made pointed to resemble a de Haviland spinner. There are no flying Hurricane or Sea Hurricane Mk.I today that has the correct spinner.

The correct shape of the de Haviland spinner can be seen is this photo:

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albums/Hurricane/BB_2A60_1.jpg

[mungee]

When it was first announced I was in my 50's .. I'm taking lots of vitamins and hoping to still be alive when it's released :-)

Hehe! Me too!

[tourmaline]

Would it be possible to make the setting for the skin a squadron uses in an off-line campaign accessable to the player? It is possible to do now in IL2 by manually editing the mission file, but it require people fiddle around in the game folders where they normally don't go. If this setting is a made available from the campaign screen, Much of the swastica trouble will go away as soon as user made skins are available. It would also benefit people who like to skin themselves and have the squadron fly with their own designs.

+1.

[Billy885]

When it was first announced I was in my 50's .. I'm taking lots of vitamins and hoping to still be alive when it's released :-)

You think you have troubles, I was in my 60's! I don't think I will make it.

[BaylorMax]

When it was first announced I was in my 50's .. I'm taking lots of vitamins and hoping to still be alive when it's released :-)



Me, too! :-)

[Rubberchicken]

Funny, the sim veterans are getting as old as the WW2 veterans we watch in the History channel documentaries.

[=KAG=Bersrk]

We have here a pilot in 3rd Assault squadron of our Virtual Group, he was born on 1939... And still good enough to be good tankbuster and even shoots Messers with his Il-2 :)

[Splitter]

Luthier, my criticism was directed at the misguided and silly law, not you. Then again, we have our share of silly laws here in the States too, no? lol

Fingers crossed that you all are still on schedule.

Splitter





Just to clarify, the Nazi thing wasn't my personal decision. It was made after consulting with legal, and made at a much higher level than myself.

The Russian law is extremely vague. It basically says "manufacture and distribution of any Nazi symbols in any form is punishable by such and such." If somebody wanted a pretext to go after 1C, the courts would interpret it whichever way was needed. And not only would 1C be slapped with a huge fine that would dwarf any potential profits from BoB, the actual actors, most likely myself and / and Oleg, could look at a prison sentence.

So can we please close this subject once and for all?

[Rodolphe]

...

The Hurricane Spinner Memo Strip : )

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Spinners.jpg


TBC by Friendly Flyer ;-)


Watts 11'3" two-blade fixed-pitch wooden propeller


Rotol 10'9" three-blade variable-pitch metal propeller (Spitfire style)


de Havilland Hamilton Hydromatic 10'8" three-blade variable-pitch metal propeller


Rotol 11'3" three-blade variable-pitch composite (Jablo) propeller




Note : Rolls-Royce ejector exhaust except on the early Mk.I (Watts propeller) with Kidney exhaust stacks .



...

[Friendly_flyer]

Thank you Rodolphe, saved for a rainy day!

[mark@1C]

Hi, Staff

A little idea for the Clickable Cockpit(May be a digression, But I can't find the former Sticky Q&R SOW thread):
Perhaps, SOW series can support touchscreen technology when in a Clickable Mode.

Regards.

[BadAim]

O-O-O-O-O-O! And maybe the instrument panel could be sent to a second screen as well? This would be a great feature for pit builders. (granted only if all this wouldn't cut into development time)

[zakkandrachoff]

Just to clarify, the Nazi thing wasn't my personal decision. It was made after consulting with legal, and made at a much higher level than myself.

The Russian law is extremely vague. It basically says "manufacture and distribution of any Nazi symbols in any form is punishable by such and such." If somebody wanted a pretext to go after 1C, the courts would interpret it whichever way was needed. And not only would 1C be slapped with a huge fine that would dwarf any potential profits from BoB, the actual actors, most likely myself and / and Oleg, could look at a prison sentence.

So can we please close this subject once and for all?

So…, how you going to do the skins of a Continuation War simulator in the future?

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/213330-1/Finnish++Hurricane
http://piezaapieza.net/images/AMLd4822.01.jpg
;)

[Viking]

How about not at all!

Viking

Or at least not to your liking.
Read the writing on the wall.

[LukeFF]

So…, how you going to do the skins of a Continuation War simulator in the future?

Just like in IL2. Duh.

[Eries]

I am really hoping its going gold, but deep down I know its not - but thats a good thing if we see a superb product rather than an unfinished one. It will be interesting to see what the next speculated release date from Oleg is though!

Its obvious from your posts on this thread that your only intention in visiting this forum is to insult and harass Oleg and 1C. Otherwise why would you post the identical complaint in every thread ?
It isnt working.

So why the passive aggressive behavior and back handed insults ? Is it fruitful behavior ? The only accomplishemnt so far is a temporary ban on your account . Are trying for more?

Now you may say that my intent is only to harass you.....but the difference is ......everyone here enjoys that.


Luthier--- Thanks for another great update. Much appreciated.

Eries

[proton45]

I have a question in regards to "pilot animations"...

I wonder if it will be possible to have your AI wingman communicate through hand signals and visual body gestures. As people know...before the wide spread use of radios fighter pilots communicated through visual gestures. This could also be a nice feature for observing radio silence or for when a radio gets destroyed. I'm not sure of the standardized signals (of the era), but the old "point at eyes with the V signal and then indicate a direction" is easy enough to understand.

I understand that this is a feature that might not make it into the first release of the game...but their are some theaters of the war where this feature could really add the immersion of game play....Thanks !!!!

[Tree_UK]

Its obvious from your posts on this thread that your only intention in visiting this forum is to insult and harass Oleg and 1C. Otherwise why would you post the identical complaint in every thread ?
It isnt working.

So why the passive aggressive behavior and back handed insults ? Is it fruitful behavior ? The only accomplishemnt so far is a temporary ban on your account . Are trying for more?

Now you may say that my intent is only to harass you.....but the difference is ......everyone here enjoys that.


Luthier--- Thanks for another great update. Much appreciated.

Eries

Grow up woman.... you dont have to read my posts. Check out your friends list you are far more isolated than you think.

[proton45]

Grow up woman.... you dont have to read my posts you can always f*ck off. Check out your friends list you are far more isolated than you think.

That seems a bit un-called for...he is entitled to his opinion, and it was stated in a civilized manor.

[Blackdog_kt]

So…, how you going to do the skins of a Continuation War simulator in the future?


Just like in IL2. Duh.

Actually, if i'm not mistaken the hackencreuz is an inverted/mirror image of the other swastikas that are used in Finnish air force markings and various tribal insignia around the world. So, since it's not the exact same symbol there should be no problem ;)

[nearmiss]

Its obvious from your posts on this thread that your only intention in visiting this forum is to insult and harass Oleg and 1C. Otherwise why would you post the identical complaint in every thread ?
It isnt working.

So why the passive aggressive behavior and back handed insults ? Is it fruitful behavior ? The only accomplishemnt so far is a temporary ban on your account . Are trying for more?

Now you may say that my intent is only to harass you.....but the difference is ......everyone here enjoys that.


Luthier--- Thanks for another great update. Much appreciated.

Eries

Tree_UK is persistently pessimistic just put him on your ignore list.

[Novotny]

Tree_UK does bring up the same points frequently; so do I, and so do most of the forum regulars. We all have our favourite things to moan about. For this is not a forum to discuss IL-2 - this is a forum to winge and moan.

I've moderated much bigger, much younger communities than this: and they're usually more respectful. Perhaps because their authors don't feel that their opinions are so important. People who play IL-2 are very concerned with the validity of their opinions.

The IL-2 community is just as immature as any other - why, just look at how our moderator gets torn to shreds on SimHQ for his own immature remarks. No point in posting the links, I know he'll remove them.

I'll probably get banned for this, and frankly couldn't care less. It's about time I stopped 'contributing' here and just used it to note Oleg's news. There are so many, much better places to discuss flight sims.

[JtD]

How's all that related to the last Friday update?

[Novotny]

It's not, of course; this is the bananas forum.

[csThor]

Actually, if i'm not mistaken the hackencreuz is an inverted/mirror image of the other swastikas that are used in Finnish air force markings and various tribal insignia around the world. So, since it's not the exact same symbol there should be no problem ;)

Actually there is. German law throws any kind of swastika into the same pot, NS swastika and finnish hakaristi are not kept separate. Ilya already said that the russian law is a "rubber law" that allows various ways of reading it. Which means the situation is as clear as stirred mud for 1C. I doubt they're going to risk a confrontation with the state so they'll play it safe and remove any swastika from the game.
I, too, don't suppose that 1C is going to change its marketing strategy so I guess there'll be one worldwide version (plus a russian one) and that's about it. And the smallest common denominator in that regard is german law which doesn't allow swastikas in a PC game.

[WTE_Galway]

Its only really the tail aircraft symbols that cause an issue.

The ground unit insignia such as the Afrika Korps one with the palm tree and hakenkreuz are too small to really be noticeable in a game.

Air Identification flags on tanks came later in the war. Also whilst many units did just use the NSDAP Flag or sometimes the Third Reich Battle Ensign the official Balkenkreuz Air Identification Flag shown below was also common and its historically accurate to use that on ground vehicles.

http://www.pzg.biz/f47_balkenkreuz.jpg


The Balkenkreuz Air Identification Flag was never flown as a flag but is commonly used in this role as a substitute for the NSDAP Flag by WWII recreation groups.

[esmiol]

if i remember it was the same problem in il2 no? swastika was not able to be show on the plane because of the german law.

but it is not something to debate.... because people who want swastika for historical reality on plane will just have to do a skin.

i suggest we stop speaking about that in this thread... we are clearly out of topic here ;)

[proton45]

if i remember it was the same problem in il2 no? swastika was not able to be show on the plane because of the german law.

but it is not something to debate.... because people who want swastika for historical reality on plane will just have to do a skin.

i suggest we stop speaking about that in this thread... we are clearly out of topic here ;)

Yea...you are right, its not a new issue.

But its still, waaaay closer to being on-topic then some of the posts here. ;)

[Tree_UK]

Tree_UK is persistently pessimistic just put him on your ignore list.

Thats a bit unfair, im not pessimistic, im realistic, you told me i was pessimistic when i suggested that SOW would most likely be released in March 2010 back in March 2009, now on the scale of things i was being overly optimistic. Also I was told I was pessimistic and frankly rubbished by most on here when I announced that ubisoft were no longer involved in the project , I think now that most would agree that that is most certainly the case.
I am very pleased with the progress of SOW, and furthermore I simply love the work Oleg and team do, and I will gladly praise him for it all day long, but it does not mean I have to hang on his every word or believe everything he says regarding 'hinted' release dates like some here do. I think that it is good and healthy for debate to have a balance on the forums from all perspectives as long as we all believe in the product which i am certain we all do.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Your right Tree!

Sometimes we need to be grounded ;)

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

So…, how you going to do the skins of a Continuation War simulator in the future?

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/213330-1/Finnish++Hurricane
http://piezaapieza.net/images/AMLd4822.01.jpg
;)

This is how we do it :) :

http://www.zg52.com/DDS.png

[kendo65]

im not pessimistic, im realistic

Pessimists ALWAYS see themselves as realists. Other people disagree.

Pessimists don't care - they just see other folks as naive ;)

[Xilon_x]

THIS SIMBOL have double FACE?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2GyGv-RqFM&feature=related

[Hecke]

Nice random stuff, but:

- unnecessary
- not working

[Sven]

I think you are lost Xilon, and I doubt if you will ever find the right path

good to see even more progress in SOW BOB, keep it up!

[Xilon_x]

no no sven not important if i lost or i winn i think this is only a simple simbol not dagerous for world simbols not is important but the very importance is the human mentality.

[Tree_UK]

Pessimists ALWAYS see themselves as realists. Other people disagree.

Pessimists don't care - they just see other folks as naive ;)

No grey areas there then Doctor Kendo........ :confused:

[Robert]

Thats a bit unfair, im not pessimistic, im realistic, you told me i was pessimistic when i suggested that SOW would most likely be released in March 2010 back in March 2009, now on the scale of things i was being overly optimistic. Also I was told I was pessimistic and frankly rubbished by most on here when I announced that ubisoft were no longer involved in the project , I think now that most would agree that that is most certainly the case.
I am very pleased with the progress of SOW, and furthermore I simply love the work Oleg and team do, and I will gladly praise him for it all day long, but it does not mean I have to hang on his every word or believe everything he says regarding 'hinted' release dates like some here do. I think that it is good and healthy for debate to have a balance on the forums from all perspectives as long as we all believe in the product which i am certain we all do.


I have to admit, though Tree's persistent slagging at BoB release dates is long in the tooth, I believe he's a fan looking forward to the game's release. He's rarely been overtly negative when it comes to developer updates. He's even supportive.

Why does he do what he does? IDK. Maybe it's a shtick. Maybe he's trolling. Who knows. For all we know he's disabled and is really looking forward to this game for his own private reasons and truly is frustrated at the delays we've all experienced. We DON'T know. But he's been here since the opening of this forum. If he was negative in other aspects I'd be hard on him, but relatively, Tree is just the car alarm that goes off every now and then. Annoying? To some. But we're all adults here.

At least with Tree I can laugh it off. How many folks come in here and act like demanding asshats thinking they know everything, but provide no real useful information to help the progress of the game? They bother me infinitely more than Tree's mosquito like buzzing.

As a word of advise to Tree. Take it for what it's worth. We all know how you feel regarding release dates, and the delays. I'll even add: "You were right." Might it behoove you to tone it down? Respectfully, it is to the point where it's unnecessary.

[swiss]

no no sven not important if i lost or i winn i think this is only a simple simbol not dagerous for world simbols not is important but the very importance is the human mentality.

1st time agree with you.
(maybe I should mark this day in the calendar)

But it's not about mentality but some crazy paranoia.

Profanity is prohibited on this forums

[Foo'bar]

Totally unneccessary discussion about swastica and german or russian law. Once americans permitted germans to use it and today americans complain about germans don't want to use it any more, lol ;) Paint it onto the skin if you can't live without...

More important is the following:

I wonder why nobody is complaining about pilot's size? If I got luthier right then MG sized down the pilots inside cockpits in external models to prevent them to clip canopy when beeing animated.

I still ask myself if I got that matter right, and if so then I have do disagree. I'd rather would have less animations in a 109's cockpit than a 1,20 m dwarf. If a cockpit is too tight to make any gymnastics inside then, well, I can't make them.

[Tree_UK]

I have to admit, though Tree's persistent slagging at BoB release dates is long in the tooth, I believe he's a fan looking forward to the game's release. He's rarely been overtly negative when it comes to developer updates. He's even supportive.

Why does he do what he does? IDK. Maybe it's a shtick. Maybe he's trolling. Who knows. For all we know he's disabled and is really looking forward to this game for his own private reasons and truly is frustrated at the delays we've all experienced. We DON'T know. But he's been here since the opening of this forum. If he was negative in other aspects I'd be hard on him, but relatively, Tree is just the car alarm that goes off every now and then. Annoying? To some. But we're all adults here.

At least with Tree I can laugh it off. How many folks come in here and act like demanding asshats thinking they know everything, but provide no real useful information to help the progress of the game? They bother me infinitely more than Tree's mosquito like buzzing.

As a word of advise to Tree. Take it for what it's worth. We all know how you feel regarding release dates, and the delays. I'll even add: "You were right." Might it behoove you to tone it down? Respectfully, it is to the point where it's unnecessary.

Noted and thanks Robert, I think that your words are of fair judgement.

[zapatista]

I wonder why nobody is complaining about pilot's size? If I got luthier right then MG sized down the pilots inside cockpits in external models to prevent them to clip canopy when beeing animated.

I still ask myself if I got that matter right, and if so then I have do disagree. I'd rather would have less animations in a 109's cockpit than a 1,20 m dwarf. If a cockpit is too tight to make any gymnastics inside then, well, I can't make them.

"complaints" about the pilots size started with my post on pg 4 :) iirc about another 6 or 7 posters have made similar remarks in this thread after that.

if this is a short term compromise however and is not easy to fix because of complex pilot animation factors, then it isnt really that critical imo. not worth causing delays over to try and sort it out just before release time. i would expect/hope this be a priority issue to be resolved in the first patches however.

for the german 109's, it is very obvious the pilot is about 25% to small

[Flanker35M]

S!

Let's use the oldest release dates in sim industry! When it is done = not even in beta, maybe on drawing board :D 2 weeks = there is something cooking up already, but still not quite there :D

[MD_Titus]

Grow up woman.... you dont have to read my posts. Check out your friends list you are far more isolated than you think.
teh first sentence, scanning the thread means they get read
the second sentence, and what difference does that make?
Tree_UK is persistently pessimistic just put him on your ignore list.
instructions please?
How's all that related to the last Friday update?
bwahahaha, hopeful man JtD!

[Zorin]

Totally unneccessary discussion about swastica and german or russian law. Once americans permitted germans to use it and today americans complain about germans don't want to use it any more, lol ;) Paint it onto the skin if you can't live without...

More important is the following:

I wonder why nobody is complaining about pilot's size? If I got luthier right then MG sized down the pilots inside cockpits in external models to prevent them to clip canopy when beeing animated.

I still ask myself if I got that matter right, and if so then I have do disagree. I'd rather would have less animations in a 109's cockpit than a 1,20 m dwarf. If a cockpit is too tight to make any gymnastics inside then, well, I can't make them.

It's all part of the animation thing. Our stock pilots are 175 cm I think. With tight cockpits like the 109, we have to find a fragile balance between height and shoulder room so they don't clip through the sides of the cockpit during maneuvers.

I think wha he is saying is, that they settled on 175cm for the pilot figure to make it fit every cockpit and allow for all the animations to be flawless.

And 175cm was not unusual for pilots, taller ones usually ended up as bomber/transport pilots due to the restrictive nature of the fighter cockpits.

[zapatista]

It's all part of the animation thing. Our stock pilots are 175 cm I think. With tight cockpits like the 109, we have to find a fragile balance between height and shoulder room so they don't clip through the sides of the cockpit during maneuvers.

I think wha he is saying is, that they settled on 175cm for the pilot figure to make it fit every cockpit and allow for all the animations to be flawless.

And 175cm was not unusual for pilots, taller ones usually ended up as bomber/transport pilots due to the restrictive nature of the fighter cockpits.

wasnt the english pilot in the recent video posted here 1.76 cm tall ? and he was VERY cramped in the 109 cockpit and his head touched the canopy when closed

for the hurricane and spitfire this is less critical (even if the same oleg-BoB pilot figure still looks a bit to small/short) because real life pilots ( as seen in several real life photographs posted here in recent threads confirm) had more room.

still, not a reason to spend weeks/months of bug fixing time on right now imho. solve it after release :)

[fireflyerz]

Well, scrolling through the vairious screenshots the figure size looks undersized in almost all fighter and bomber cockpits , I was under the impression this was just a place holder ?