Friday 2010-07-09 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[Oleg Maddox]

Hi,



As I told we will tune graphics, effects , etc till final end. However all is working nice. Just to be sure - all will be even more better :)
Today is a bit unusual update. I want to show some features of engine for the future modeling.

Here is the view from 200 m to 40 km with modeling of atmospheric physics (contrast of hills/mountains at highest altitude will be more nicely tuned later) :

[Oleg Maddox]

You may see that we are thinking about third party developers and our own upcoming after BoB titles using this engine :) Hope you all understand what I mean.

[Oleg Maddox]

On the third shot - still in tunings trees and ground (depending of video card). Dots there - its tracers in pause. Currently they are looking as dots in pauses when we grab screen shots.


Notice: Next week Ilya will post update with some new screen shots. I will be in vacation next week.

[janpitor]

Just beautiful..nothing more to say

[Drum_tastic]

Yep Oleg it is looking superb :grin:

[Skarphol]

Fantastic sunrise!
What area is that map?

Skarphol

[DBCooper]

Looks superb! I got one question though: what will be the max. size in KM for the maps?

Many thanks in advance!

[BG-09]

Oleg, it will be really superb, if You make the fire and the flames, the smoke and the explosions more and more realistic as much as possible. And please add some long lasting bomb craters, in order for us to create "Moon surface". Everything is very good. Really!
~S!

[WTE-Newy]

Thanks Oleg, great shots, can't wait for the release

I guess it's time to start saving for a new computer :grin:

[fireflyerz]

Freakin hell Oleg...stunning, made my friday:grin:

[touchdown42]

Look like north of Portsmouth looking south.
The far coast should be Cherbourgh

[Oleg Maddox]

Looks superb! I got one question though: what will be the max. size in KM for the maps?

Many thanks in advance!

The size of the map could be unlimited (sphere) but with small amount of detail and decreased resolution.

So will be limited map.

As I told in the past there will be no Norway or Berlin.

Ok, I move in vacation right now. Sorry.

[erco]

Wow. Just WOW!

Beautiful work, guys! It seems a very good sign that you can manage a vacation at this stage in development, Oleg.

Someone needs to start the 3-D modelling of a space shuttle- looks like the SOW engine can handle it!

Amazing!

[Desode]

Oleg have a Great vacation ! Thanks for taking the time to give us these Great Shots before your trip .
DESODE

[Skarphol]

Look like north of Portsmouth looking south.
The far coast should be Cherbourgh

Seems like you are right!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Skarphol/Portsmouth2.jpg

From Google Earth, eye alt 40km:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/Skarphol/Portsmouth-1.jpg

Skarphol

[Doogerie]

Oleg the game looks almost photo reaistic I am really looking fowerd to it. When i was young (4 or 5) I wanted to be a spifire pilot (back in the 80's) I had lodes of old combat sims and I am in no doubte that this will be the best i have ever played. Mabey even better then IL2? :)

[DBCooper]

Thanks for the reply Oleg!

Have a nice vacation and don't forget your camera('s)!

[F19_lacrits]

Thanks for the update! Beautiful landscape screens :D
Have a good vacation Oleg.. don't go too far for too long though ;)

[philip.ed]

Looks absolutely awesome. I still think the landscape textures and trees have a way to go yet to look as good as the planes ;)

[ChrisDNT]

Not bad, but it would be cool for the finished game to have colors which look like the colors of the described area. I hope also that the final trees will be improved and that the land textures will have more resolution.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nice shots. Enjoy your vacation :)

[Ploughman]

Very unexpected content in this one. Looking very nice even at this stage. Enjoy your time off.

[PeterPanPan]

Lovely screenshots Oleg - I especially like the sun set/rise images. That will make flying beautiful.

Just a couple of things:

1. I know this is WIP and it's been discussed a lot, but I think the grass on the airfield (1st image, final part) is too green. I'm sure you know, but ... ;)

2. The edges of the Bf110 in the 3rd image, final part, seem very sharp. Presumably this is again WIP?

Have a great vacation!

PPanPan

[krz9000]

just to make sure everyone get it right...this is no sunset....the time is frozen but the camera moves upwarts to the sky. im pretty surprised in a very positive way that oleg decided to go the "sphere" model of the planet. that really opens up possibilities :) well done team oleg!

[LukeFF]

Not bad, but it would be cool for the finished game to have colors which look like the colors of the described area. I hope also that the final trees will be improved and that the land textures will have more resolution.

Just to remind: still WIP

.

[mazex]

Not bad, but it would be cool for the finished game to have colors which look like the colors of the described area. I hope also that the final trees will be improved and that the land textures will have more resolution.

From what I understand they are using Speedtree (?) - a third party "vegetation 3D api", and they are working with them on some problems with distance rendering of trees. Speedtree are experts in this area (most major game titles use their trees) so I suppose they will fix it... Oleg said some time ago that they have the trees at "low render settings" now while tuning them.

/Mazex

[KOM.Nausicaa]

This update is highly fascinating. If i understand correctly, the game world is curved like the shape of the earth, even if the game map is limited. And more, engine renders up to the limit of space and maybe even beyond. That opens thrilling possibilities -- wow!

Ah and sunset screenshots look all superb. Photographic quality there, congrats !

[335th_GRSwaty]

Beautiful pics!

Thank you!!

[=XIII=Shea]

Yet again beautiful screenshots,thanks oleg

[Foo'bar]

2. The edges of the Bf110 in the 3rd image, final part, seem very sharp. Presumably this is again WIP?
PPanPan

What Bf 110?

[Foo'bar]

Not bad, but it would be cool for the finished game to have colors which look like the colors of the described area. I hope also that the final trees will be improved and that the land textures will have more resolution.

What would the right colors look like?

I think resolution on surface textures are good enough for today's video card memory amount. After all we're talking about a flight sim.

[w1nd6urfa]

I want to fly NOOWWW !!! :x

Have a well deserved holiday Oleg

[philip.ed]

What would the right colors look like?

I think resolution on surface textures are good enough for today's video card memory amount. After all we're talking about a flight sim.


Hmm, it doesn't look as good as RoF or WoP in the terrain part (I'm not talking about the first 2-sets of pics that Oleg posted BTW) so I think that it still can aim higher in that part. ;)

[Chiz]

Looks fantastic! I think this is the best update so far. Thanks for kicking my weekend off to a nice start :)

[PilotError]

Amazing!:grin:

The sunrise shots are stunningly beautiful.

There are some nice details in the final set of three shots as well.

In the first one with the burning dornier (that fire looks really frightning) it appears that the gunner/navigator is looking at the camera. That is the first time I've seen any crew member not looking straight ahead.

In the last shot with the tracers it looks like there is smoke from the chimney of the house with the red roof in the bottom right corner!:o

Great update, again.

Enjoy your vacation Oleg. And a bit of advice, forget about work completely, have a nice rest, and come back fully refreshed.:cool:

[Sutts]

Thanks for the great update Oleg and have a relaxing break.

These shots demonstrate just how advanced Oleg's new engine is. The possibilities for such an engine are incredible. It's easy to forget how far we've come when we get caught up in all the nit picky details.

The shadows on the landscape at different times of day are simply mindblowing.

Having said that, I do hope the airfield grass is toned down a bit;-)
Something like this would be great...

[PeterPanPan]

What Bf 110?

Oops, quite right Foo'bar. I should of course have said Do17 :oops:

It's back to aircraft recognition school for me (again)!

PPanPan

[Grey]

Fantastic shots again!!! Thanks Oleg!!! :smile:

[Mango]

Each update is stunningly more impressive than the last! Satisfying to see, but makes the waiting that much more painful... ;)

Have a great vacation, Oleg, and rest up!

[lbuchele]

Hmm, it doesn't look as good as RoF or WoP in the terrain part (I'm not talking about the first 2-sets of pics that Oleg posted BTW) so I think that it still can aim higher in that part. ;)

IF SOW ended looking a bit not so nice than WoP in graphics , it will make sense, because WoP is all about graphics, nothing more ( I play it for three days , never fired again, because it´s not my cup of tea, really)
And SOW probably will use more realistic looking , WOP is more hollywoodish with all that green filter, impressive but I felt like I was in Mars or something...)

[philip.ed]

I know what you mean about WoP's filter, but take RoF...if it had hedgerows it could look photographic. From what Oleg said, this is meant to look photographic, but I don't think those trees look bery good at the 'mo.

[335th_GRExandas]

A big issue will be how far you can spot a boogie and what this has to do with the graphics card power.

As you all know in a dogfight the first advantage is to see the enemy before he sees you!!

[hed]

Nice pictures, Oleg!

Btw, what do you think about "outerra project". They have very good looking engine for seamless planet rendering from space down to the surface.

Example is here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lhrabcak#p/c/D2CCF9762373EA16/0/TVjCetERjN8

[johnnypfft]

Time lapse movie :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAvVIv5mAI

The fire looks excellent!!

[Dano]

Nice pictures, Oleg!

Btw, what do you think about "outerra project". They have very good looking engine for seamless planet rendering from space down to the surface.

Example is here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lhrabcak#p/c/D2CCF9762373EA16/0/TVjCetERjN8

Oleg has already made comments on it in last weeks update thread.

[choctaw111]

Oleg, are the atmospheric conditions being done in 1940 standards?
What I mean to say is that there was a lot less air pollution back then.
I also wanted to say that so many elements are being so well done are really coming together to make something unprecedented and truly extraordinary :)

[Richie]

It's beautiful. Tree have you figured out I'm Hackl?

[Friendly_flyer]

I'm used to seeing the dawn being more bluish in hue, like this:

http://www.atacamaphoto.com/atacama-coast/atacamacoast25.jpg

Is that just me coming from an area with less air pollution (I'm from Norway) or is a different time of the morning? I've always thought the early dawn in IL2, with haze clinging to the low ground was rather well done.

[baronWastelan]

Noticable improvement in colors of terrain over previous. Looks like we'll have BoB for Christmas this year. Thanks for the great update Oleg, you've earned your vacation!!!

[jocko417]

Dawn? This isn't a sunrise, I think it's a set moment in time (near sunSET, look which direction the sun is located) and the only thing changing in each shot is the altitude of the camera. I've taken off just after sunset heading west, seen the sun 'rise' in the west while climbing, then set 'again' after leveling at altitude. It's just the perspective you get at a higher viewing point.

[holdenbj]

Oleg: Very nice update - just stunning - thanks :)
Have an excellent holiday.

Sun over the Isle of Wight - thats home for me. :cool:

Any chance of a screenie of Stukas over Ventor downs radar station on the island in the next update ;) :rolleyes:

[Il2Pongo]

I hope they keep the grass strips looking like grass, not like dried out harvested wheat on a wheat field that used to be grass.

I like how the fighters on the airfield are rendered in the distance.

[kashwashwa]

I know that it's been mentioned a beefy computer will be required to run high settings - I'm wondering though, would a really fast GPU or CPU be preferred? (Hopefully ATI cards in SLI will be supported?)

[Avimimus]

Well ...an extremely impressive update. I can't help but ask if the simulation can model 60-100km range. With a more complex gravitational model orbitersim could be in for competition... Oleg: Will the moon be landable ;)

I'm used to seeing the dawn being more bluish in hue, like this:

Is that just me coming from an area with less air pollution (I'm from Norway) or is a different time of the morning? I've always thought the early dawn in IL2, with haze clinging to the low ground was rather well done.

It could also be that you're still further north. Light is different depending on latitude. A lot of games developed in California look far to bright and colour saturated for my Canadian eyes, whereas games which have semi-realistic snow covered landscape automatically get played two-three times as much (more immersive).

[C_G]

I'm not sure that the air in 1940s England was any less polluted than it is today. Remember that there was far greater and more widespread use of coal at the time (trains, ships, residential and commercial heating, factories) than there is today.

Wasn't it in the 1950s that people died in London due to heating-coal smog lasting days?

I'm not saying it wasn't less polluted than today, I'm just suggesting that we shouldn't assume that it was just because we're talking about 60 years ago.

[philip.ed]

G.Wellum describes in detail the smog that he could see over London when flying over the city in his book. At least, I believe it was London, but it was no-doubt a city he was describing. ;)

[brando]

Oleg, are the atmospheric conditions being done in 1940 standards?
What I mean to say is that there was a lot less air pollution back then.
I also wanted to say that so many elements are being so well done are really coming together to make something unprecedented and truly extraordinary :)

"...a lot less air pollution back then."

I'm sure that's not correct.
The first half of the twentieth century was all coal-fired - industry, transport, domestic - everything came from the burning of massive amounts of coal. Electricity was generated by coal burning power-stations, and 'house' gas was a by-product of coke production. (no, not that type of coke! :) ) Just the daily burning of coal in houses in , say, London created an incredible amount of air pollution. In certain atmospheric conditions London was subjected to heavy 'smog' (literally, smoke and fog) which caused a large number of deaths every year, leading eventually to the Clean Air Act which outlawed the use of coal in London. That came two decades after 1940 however, and the pollution of the time was increased by the need to produce more power, use more trains, and run more factories when war broke out.
The atmosphere over Britain was thick with the carbon particles that coal-burning churns out.

B

[Ploughman]

Quite right C_G, the Clean Air Act and the a change from using solid fuels to gas in 1970s means the air at lower levels in especially urban Britain is much cleaner than it was in the 1940s. Much of this black air would coat everything. Back in the , 70s, and 80s many old and historic buildings were cleaned. I still remember York Minster and the railway station there with their coating of industrial grime. Both were cleaned up in the 70s and 80s and have gone from brown and black to their natural stone colour. The Old Dart must of looked very grubby back when.

[Jaws2002]

Great shots overal but i have to agree with Philip.ed. The trees could look better. As i understand the trees are not made in house, that may be the reason it takes longer to adjust.

[Romanator21]

The flight at 40 km - you nailed it Oleg & Co - absolutely jaw dropping. Can't wait to fly a U-2 up there. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cZLfK4Zjk

[rookie_and_noggie]

I hope trees are not final yet. They spoil the terrain to me :(

[Hatch]

Oleg, are the atmospheric conditions being done in 1940 standards?
What I mean to say is that there was a lot less air pollution back then.
I also wanted to say that so many elements are being so well done are really coming together to make something unprecedented and truly extraordinary :)

London at least was know for it's smog.
Don't know too much about wartime years but air quality now might even be better than it was in the past.

Anyone have any idea?

[13th Hsqn Protos]

:/

Whats with the overly saturated greens and browns again in the third set ......

2010 and still screenshots have no AA :rolleyes:

After this game gets launched and you reload bank accounts, you guys need to buy all new MODERN rigs with 24' widescreen monitors .....

A good high res movie 720/1080 is in order at this point.

[steeldelete]

one of these days we'll be able to fly to the moon! Mark my words.

Very beautiful!

[choctaw111]

"...a lot less air pollution back then."

I'm sure that's not correct.
The first half of the twentieth century was all coal-fired - industry, transport, domestic - everything came from the burning of massive amounts of coal. Electricity was generated by coal burning power-stations, and 'house' gas was a by-product of coke production. (no, not that type of coke! :) ) Just the daily burning of coal in houses in , say, London created an incredible amount of air pollution. In certain atmospheric conditions London was subjected to heavy 'smog' (literally, smoke and fog) which caused a large number of deaths every year, leading eventually to the Clean Air Act which outlawed the use of coal in London. That came two decades after 1940 however, and the pollution of the time was increased by the need to produce more power, use more trains, and run more factories when war broke out.
The atmosphere over Britain was thick with the carbon particles that coal-burning churns out.

B

That is very interesting.
What about the overall pollution over rural areas? Would this have been worse back then as well?
I am only asking as I have seen photos of mountain ranges (in the US) from the 1940's and compared them to the same view today.
The view from 70 years ago is much more clear.

[proton45]

:/

Whats with the overly saturated greens and browns again in the third set ......

2010 and still screenshots have no AA :rolleyes:

After this game gets launched and you reload bank accounts, you guys need to buy all new MODERN rigs with 24' widescreen monitors .....

A good high res movie 720/1080 is in order at this point.


Oh, Protos...you are such a "card", you shuffle when you walk and you need to be dealt with (lol). ;)

[Il2Pongo]

That is very interesting.
What about the overall pollution over rural areas? Would this have been worse back then as well?
I am only asking as I have seen photos of mountain ranges (in the US) from the 1940's and compared them to the same view today.
The view from 70 years ago is much more clear.

You realize that the rocky mountains of the US were pretty much deserted at that time vs the south of england right? Your using an example of one of the(at that time) least industrialized areas of the world with one of the most industrialized areas of the world.

"London


Victorian London was notorious for its thick smogs, or "pea-soupers", a fact that is often recreated to add an air of mystery to a period costume drama
In 1306, concerns over air pollution were sufficient for Edward I to (briefly) ban coal fires in London.[11] In 1661, John Evelyn's Fumifugium suggested burning fragrant wood instead of mineral coal, which he believed would reduce coughing. The Ballad of Gresham College the same year describes how the smoke "does our lungs and spirits choke, Our hanging spoil, and rust our iron."
Severe episodes of smog continued in the 19th and 20th centuries and were nicknamed "pea-soupers". The Great Smog of 1952 darkened the streets of London and killed approximately 4,000 people in the short time of 4 days (a further 8,000[12] died from its effects in the following weeks and months). Initially a flu epidemic was blamed for the loss of life. "

[krz9000]

guys remember, colorgrading should be done as a post fx. im pretty sure oleg has lots of possibilities to desaturate and colorkey the final output. add motionblur, dof, vignetting, maybe some film-grain and you magically get a very convincing looking picture for not that much graphic power nowadays.

[furbs]

is the gunner slumped over in the last shot?

[Chivas]

The size of the map could be unlimited (sphere) but with small amount of detail and decreased resolution.

So will be limited map.

As I told in the past there will be no Norway or Berlin.

Ok, I move in vacation right now. Sorry.



This is the most interesting news yet. Unlimited map (sphere) suggests a world map, with only the BOB area being modeled in detail in the first addition of the series. Also saying that there will be no Norway or Berlin modeled brings hope that Paris will. ;)

This unlimited sphere map bodes well for future addons that included bomb raids to Berlin etc. Hopefully computers will be strong enough then to have such large detailed maps. FSX does have a world map but photo scenery looks ok at high level but sucks big time at low level.

I find the current state of the terrain scenery is good, but still needs work to make it photo realistic. Although maybe all thats needed is more varieties of trees, and hedgerows, more realistic color palette, and higher resolution. Yes I know its still a WIP.

[Xiola]

CAnt wait, looks incredible

[Xiola]

Oh, Protos...you are such a "card", you shuffle when you walk and you need to be dealt with (lol). ;)

He is what is scientifically know as a 'tit'.

[N345SD_Bear]

awesome ... i cant wait to buy this game.... any ideas when that may be??
~S~ Bear.

[AC_Black]

~S~

Bloody FANTASTIC!!! Made my Friday as well :P

Can bet it is not soon enough Bear :P

[akdavis]

Beautiful stuff.

[Splitter]

Отлично!!!!

The model that is being hinted at is incredible in potential.

I had something to say about the belief that pollution is worse now but I refrained in fear that I would be misunderstood.

Splitter

[BadAim]

Friday is my favorite day of the week. For more than one reason now. :)

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Oh, Protos...you are such a "card", you shuffle when you walk and you need to be dealt with (lol). ;)

Your aliasing bores me .....
Try another nick roflol ;)

[kapitansky]

:-Pvery very nice Oleg you and our staff will great job ,however if you have to rest you, you can come very well in southern Italy where you can make excursions subacque (your hobby) and to see wonder of archaeology Roman-Greek frets.If you have chosen different destination, can make vacation Olga. A place in my house is always found... therefore Olga sole,mare,pesce freso,frutta of season and a beautiful tan, will return in fortified Moscow so that to finish this blessed S.O.W!!

[engarde]

looks great.

in these snapshot views of the actual product, in development, it looks good.

[Friendly_flyer]

Dawn? This isn't a sunrise, I think it's a set moment in time (near sunSET

I think you are right, a sunset looks far more like it. SunSETs are usually more colourful than sunrises, at least where I come from. I suppose the reason is that the day see a combination of sunlight and wind, drying up the topsoil and sending particles up into the lower atmosphere. Also, industry, road traffic and other polluters are most active during the day. When night comes, wind subsides, temperature drops, water in the air condensates and helps clean the air.

Imagine flying over such a landscape when taking off for a night mission! I wonder what Oleg manages to get out of London burning...

[Skarphol]

The images is taken more or less due south seen from a little north of Portsmouth. The sun seems to be straight to the south. Thus it should be in the mid of the day. It is a little bit weird that the sun isn't higher on the horizon.

Skarphol

[deadmeat313]

On the highest altitude screenshot you can see an east-west line in Northern France, beyond which there is no terrain drawn. That looks like map-edge to me.

Either that or its the point where the engine stops drawing the map. The line looks to be about 150 miles away from the viewpoint.

T.

[Rodolphe]

...


Same feeling here, Deadmeat. ;)

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Kanal5.jpg

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showpost.php?p=1055913&postcount=1097






What about the "WIP settlement" of the three models of hangars on the first Do 215 screen.
Those hangar main doors are sitting intimately face to face) .

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Hangar1.jpg




A comparative study with the following aerial pictures of Thorney Island airfield(1945).



http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Hangar.jpg

During an attack on Aug 18th, 1940, the luftwaffe (Stuka) has damaged two hangars, one of which remained a burnt-out shell until after the war.

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Hangar2.jpg




These "siamese" hangars at Andover drome, in 1918 've loved to keep a respectful distance from each other. ((:)))

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Hangar6.jpg

...

[Old_Canuck]

Thanks again Oleg. There's a feeling of depth in those shots. Enjoy your vacation.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

I think it's very safe to assume hangars have only been placed there for demonstration or testing. Oleg's team knows how airfields look like, moreover airfield takeoffs and correct hangars in SoW could be seen in videos already in 2007. Some of you guys really panic at the slightest bit ;-)

[Rodolphe]

...


I'll like to thank, Doctor Nausicaa for the nice diagnosis. :grin:

But we should learn to interpret the members messages appropriately.



Please, let's maintain our sens of humour. : ))



Tchuss !
...

[whylie]

Great stuff Oleg, have a great holiday.

[Abbeville-Boy]

great looking update! today is July 10 the beginning of The Battle Of Britain :grin:

[KOM.Nausicaa]

But we should learn to interpret the members messages appropriately.



Please, let's maintain our sens of humour. : ))



Tchuss !
...

Or reading all the updates and Olegs/Luthiers comments that exist for this sim first ?
A very good translator is Globefish for Firefox...
https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/7361/

..just select the text and, voila, the translation is there..you don't even have to select which "language to language" first, it recognizes it automatically. Talk about this to the guys at checksix too ! (<--sense of humor ;-)

[zapatista]

...

What about the "WIP settlement" of the three models of hangars on the first Do 215 screen.
Those hangar main doors are sitting intimately face to face) .

...

seems rather obvious to me, its just a few buildings plonked down in the field temporarily so
1) the aircraft flying from there have a reference point to locate the field (untill scenery is improved enough to do proper VFR)
2) its a nice little challenge to fly through all 3 hangers, they all have their doors open and are aligned end on end

:)

what is more interesting, did anybody spot the smoke rising from the chimney of the english house in the other new screenshot ? about a year ago oleg also gave screenshots (in close up) of houses with interior lights on. those are nice attentions to detail which will go well with some of the other new elements we are getting to improve immersion in the game (AI road traffic, birds flying in the sky, etc..), and starting to see see it as a living breathing world we fly around in.

[lawfulfalafel]

These are stunning pics, but just out of curiosity, why is there no AA in these pics?

[Avimimus]

These are stunning pics, but just out of curiosity, why is there no AA in these pics?

Because it is an Alpha - weight a few months and you'll see player controllable antiaircraft guns (or DX11 with simultaneous anti-aliasing and HDR).

+1 on you name btw. It actually seems like something new...

[Rodolphe]

...

... its just a few buildings plonked down in the field temporarily ...



We are sharing the same progressive thoughts.


It look's obvious to everyone here. :grin:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2277&d=1273240813



TWIMC
Have you see, what could be some runway edge equally spaced markers (05 brownish dots) ??
Anyone got a idea what they could look alike ?

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Hangar1.jpg




...

[Foo'bar]

Because it is an Alpha - weight a few months and you'll see player controllable antiaircraft guns (or DX11 with simultaneous anti-aliasing and HDR).

+1 on you name btw. It actually seems like something new...

I think lawfulfalafel was talking about Anti Aliasing instead of Anti Aircraft. Oleg stated somewhen before that AA is fine tuning wich will come later.

[Immermann]

I bet those trees will look alot better with transparency AA.

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Stunning,

Great work.

Don't haste the release...

[metro163]

expect such a dawn cruise

[leggit]

Not bad, but it would be cool for the finished game to have colors which look like the colors of the described area. I hope also that the final trees will be improved and that the land textures will have more resolution.


As a professional artist and digital artist i assure you there is nothing wrong with the colour range. Try calibrating your monitor properly.

[Montoro]

Great developement work! That engine is gold

[rakinroll]

Man, awesome sunrise images, thank you.

[philip.ed]

I think it's sunset. The sun it getting higher as the camera gets higher ;)

[zapatista]

As a professional artist and digital artist i assure you there is nothing wrong with the colour range. Try calibrating your monitor properly.

i hope you were referring to the sky when you said the colour range was right, not the scenery

in the most recent screenshots with the low flying cluster of german aircraft over Brittan, the colour of trees and scrubs (and their spacing), looks to me more like the french maquis in a long bleaching summer, then the lush english vegetation in southern england (where i lived for 6 yrs)

since oleg repeatedly stated this is wip and vegetation colours and even trees shapes and types are not final, its not really worth debating if its right or wrong and i am not really concerned

somebody in the last couple of weeks posted 6 or 8 photographs of southern englands scenery (hedges and roads ?), and those colours were spot on from the way i remember them

here they are: posted by major-setback a few weeks ago: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=15218&highlight=hedges&page=15

the brightest green ones could have been after a couple of rainy days and then some hot/warm days, and the more washed out greens (still much brighter and more colourfull then the recent ones seen in oleg's latest screenshot) would have been after a week or 2 of summer weather without any rain. maybe we need to have a wip-around and get oleg a package deal for a weekend in southern england, after all it is summer there now and the colors should be about right. anybody here from southern england that can comment more on these colors ?

[Space Communist]

The fact that this engine models the terrain on a globe is just nuts, and awesome. This game will be the gold standard for a decade, just like IL-2. I am hoping Oleg licenses the engine successfully and we can see what others can do with it as well.

[PilotError]

maybe we need to have a wip-around and get oleg a package deal for a weekend in southern england, after all it is summer there now and the colors should be about right.

Oleg is on vacation right at this moment. Maybe he is already in southern England ?!? :wink:

When Oleg first started giving us regular updates there were shouts of cartoonish colours!
And now they are too washed out!:confused:
But they are all WIP.
I can't help thinking that some people have expectations that would require a top of the range computer from about 20 years from now.:grin:

I think the updates we've seen so far are showing us a preview of a game that will be ground breaking, but it will have it's limitations.
After all it will still be just a game, probably an exceptional one, but still a game.:)

[brando]

You might want to note that the summer of 1940 was in fact hot and dry. While Setback's pictures are good colourwise, I don't think they are of southern England. They look to be of hedgerows in the southwestern region; ie West of Bristol. This side of the country is directly in the path of the prevailing winds and receives far more rain than the southeast: but the southeast is where all the major action occurred. A hot dry summer in southeastern England turns grass brown very quickly.

Whether there is any plan for weather-related changes to land colours I don't know - but from midsummer to October (1940) the land would only have looked more faded with every passing week.

B

[C_G]

Clearly what the engine should do is calculate the quantities of precipitation and sunshine received with respect to a calendar of seasonal crop planting/harvesting and extrapolate the level of colour saturation and height of the grass and crops.

It should also take into account whether Farmer Jarge has decided to plant more wheat rather than mustard seed depending upon the predictions of the 1939 Almanac and war-time production priorities. It should estimate the likelihood of Farmer Jarge having taken in the crop depending upon the prior days' weather, local ale festival dates (two day hangover recovery-time), and whether his ewes came down with foot-and-mouth disease (the likelihood of this would have to be determined by a separate but reklated algorithm, obviously) and precluded him from attending to his crops. In addition, the algorithm used to calculate the breakdown/wear rate of aircraft could be applied to Farmer Jarge's farm equipment and horses/oxen to assist in the determination of field colour and length.

Finally, it would be nice to see derelict cars/poles/other obstructions placed in Farmer Jarge's South-East English fields in response to mandated precautions against German invasion gliders. Naturally, the number of said obstructions should gradually increase over time as it would be a total immersion killer to see the fields suddenly populated overnight with obstructions that had not been there the previous day.

While I'm thinking of it, it would be nice if the trees could bud/bloom/blossom in spring in accordance with their type and, conversely, change colour and lose their leaves in the fall in accordance with their type, the weather, the altitude of said trees, and local microclimates.

I hope this is not too much to ask, Oleg. All I really want is for the most realistic flight simulator possible. One which would be virtually identical to the real world, only I would be 6'1" and have a slight sexy scottish burr notwithstanding an education at Eton.

[philip.ed]

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/wallpapers/1946_1949/vampire11024.jpg

Despite some saturation from age, this is an ok example ;)

[Splitter]

The color shade thing is pretty far down on my list of things I am looking forward to.

Shades are different on different computers. I see it all the time going form office to office when they all have the same background. One monitor will look washed out, another will look too vibrant. There is nothing a combat sim could do about that.

Most systems have some way of adjusting color. Some games have sliders to adjust colors, saturation, and such. All Oleg needs to do is get it close and he will never please everyone unless they adjust their system.

Flight models, damage models, frame rate savers, good mission infrastructure, multiplayer support....those things are what will make or break the game.

I'm not saying that people who are knocking the colors are wrong, just that those things are easy tweaks for the programmers and end users.

Splitter

[Il2Pongo]

Clearly what the engine should do is calculate the quantities of precipitation and sunshine received with respect to a calendar of seasonal crop planting/harvesting and extrapolate the level of colour saturation and height of the grass and crops.

It should also take into account whether Farmer Jarge has decided to plant more wheat rather than mustard seed depending upon the predictions of the 1939 Almanac and war-time production priorities. It should estimate the likelihood of Farmer Jarge having taken in the crop depending upon the prior days' weather, local ale festival dates (two day hangover recovery-time), and whether his ewes came down with foot-and-mouth disease (the likelihood of this would have to be determined by a separate but reklated algorithm, obviously) and precluded him from attending to his crops. In addition, the algorithm used to calculate the breakdown/wear rate of aircraft could be applied to Farmer Jarge's farm equipment and horses/oxen to assist in the determination of field colour and length.

Finally, it would be nice to see derelict cars/poles/other obstructions placed in Farmer Jarge's South-East English fields in response to mandated precautions against German invasion gliders. Naturally, the number of said obstructions should gradually increase over time as it would be a total immersion killer to see the fields suddenly populated overnight with obstructions that had not been there the previous day.

While I'm thinking of it, it would be nice if the trees could bud/bloom/blossom in spring in accordance with their type and, conversely, change colour and lose their leaves in the fall in accordance with their type, the weather, the altitude of said trees, and local microclimates.

I hope this is not too much to ask, Oleg. All I really want is for the most realistic flight simulator possible. One which would be virtually identical to the real world, only I would be 6'1" and have a slight sexy scottish burr notwithstanding an education at Eton.

Don't forget the beetle blight, no shire with the beetle blight will have blooms in summer. Unless they got the pesticide shipment, which the Germans can intercept. And therefore win the war. Because no self respecting Spit pilot will land at an airfield that is one rgb value out from the expected shade of grass. The AI pilots will assume its a ruse and strafe the field.

[C_G]

Don't forget the beetle blight, no shire with the beetle blight will have blooms in summer. Unless they got the pesticide shipment, which the Germans can intercept. And therefore win the war. Because no self respecting Spit pilot will land at an airfield that is one rgb value out from the expected shade of grass. The AI pilots will assume its a ruse and strafe the field.

That's the spirit! :grin: Let's go further down the rabbit hole! Adding insect infestation should only be a little sub-routine to add ;)

[brando]

Don't forget the beetle blight, no shire with the beetle blight will have blooms in summer. Unless they got the pesticide shipment, which the Germans can intercept. And therefore win the war. Because no self respecting Spit pilot will land at an airfield that is one rgb value out from the expected shade of grass. The AI pilots will assume its a ruse and strafe the field.

I guess it means we can argue about whether the mandatory crop-dusting airplane is over- or under-modeled! :D

[stu babes]

oleg ,,,,i see that you moddelled the walrus and sunderland in green and grey camo ....these were the colours for 1941 ,,the green / brown and sky were used upto then by raf commands .the defiant was used as a night fighter in late 1940..day fighter till then....hope this acn help u in anyway,,,,,ps,,cant wait for the release m8 great work to you an your team

[Eries]

That's the spirit! :grin: Let's go further down the rabbit hole! Adding insect infestation should only be a little sub-routine to add ;)

It's going to be disappointing if they dont have bug infestation on a slider in the QMB and FMB...........and for each species of course....I'll wait for four more years for release for that jewel to be included......;)
-Eries

[WTE_Galway]

Clearly what the engine should do is calculate the quantities of precipitation and sunshine received with respect to a calendar of seasonal crop planting/harvesting and extrapolate the level of colour saturation and height of the grass and crops.

It should also take into account whether Farmer Jarge has decided to plant more wheat rather than mustard seed depending upon the predictions of the 1939 Almanac and war-time production priorities. It should estimate the likelihood of Farmer Jarge having taken in the crop depending upon the prior days' weather, local ale festival dates (two day hangover recovery-time), and whether his ewes came down with foot-and-mouth disease (the likelihood of this would have to be determined by a separate but reklated algorithm, obviously) and precluded him from attending to his crops. In addition, the algorithm used to calculate the breakdown/wear rate of aircraft could be applied to Farmer Jarge's farm equipment and horses/oxen to assist in the determination of field colour and length.

Finally, it would be nice to see derelict cars/poles/other obstructions placed in Farmer Jarge's South-East English fields in response to mandated precautions against German invasion gliders. Naturally, the number of said obstructions should gradually increase over time as it would be a total immersion killer to see the fields suddenly populated overnight with obstructions that had not been there the previous day.

While I'm thinking of it, it would be nice if the trees could bud/bloom/blossom in spring in accordance with their type and, conversely, change colour and lose their leaves in the fall in accordance with their type, the weather, the altitude of said trees, and local microclimates.

I hope this is not too much to ask, Oleg. All I really want is for the most realistic flight simulator possible. One which would be virtually identical to the real world, only I would be 6'1" and have a slight sexy scottish burr notwithstanding an education at Eton.

.. and phases of the moon, plant growth should be correct according to bio-dynamic principles.

More importantly the fishies should be correct with accurate swim models and respond appropriately to the bait used by the player :D

[zapatista]

Shades are different on different computers. I see it all the time going form office to office when they all have the same background. One monitor will look washed out, another will look too vibrant. There is nothing a combat sim could do about that.

of course there is, the presumption is that all monitors used to judge the final colors are properly calibrated (including those commenting here, and mine is).

you do have a point tho, hardly anybody uses high end CRT anymore (still the best display technology), and even within lcd brands/models there is a significant variation. also most commenting on screenshots in this forum wont have calibrated their monitors, or even know how to do it. oleg's gfx team does still use crt's for that exact reason.


those things are easy tweaks for the programmers .

yeps, fully agreed. which is why oleg keeps emphasizing the scenery shots he has up to now been posting are wip (including the colors used). this doesnt mean we cant comment on what real english summer scenery looks like :) be this before or after global warming ;)

[AndyJWest]

Since Oleg is modelling the entire globe, I assume he will be allowing for continental drift in his maps too. ;)

[WTE_Galway]

Since Oleg is modelling the entire globe, I assume he will be allowing for continental drift in his maps too. ;)

Indeed, also the large movement of the magnetic pole over the last 60 years needs to be taken into account.

http://www.physorg.com/news8917.html

[mungee]

You know, whilst I accept that the majority of requests for "fine detail/tuning" are made in jest, some are no doubt made seriously.
As far as I 'm concerned, I would like to see a flight sim released that has good FM's, graphics etc (ie by Oleg's standards ... which we know are excellent!).
I want to see SOW before I get too much older and would be happy to pay reasonable prices for subsequent add-on's.
So what I'm suggesting is that we encourage Oleg to get the product done (to his very high & exacting standards) and let the sim "develop" further thereafter.

[Splitter]

Bingo.

You know, whilst I accept that the majority of requests for "fine detail/tuning" are made in jest, some are no doubt made seriously.
As far as I 'm concerned, I would like to see a flight sim released that has good FM's, graphics etc (ie by Oleg's standards ... which we know are excellent!).
I want to see SOW before I get too much older and would be happy to pay reasonable prices for subsequent add-on's.
So what I'm suggesting is that we encourage Oleg to get the product done (to his very high & exacting standards) and let the sim "develop" further thereafter.

[Rodolphe]

...



Congratulations to the villagers of Ellesborough, Buckinghamshire.

Following the publication of our last friday update, these special guests have received the extreme honour, of becoming exclusive virtual members of the BoBSoWNoSe * community.




Ellesborough Neighbourhood looking southbound :

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Ellesborough.jpg

* BoB SoW North Sector : ))




At 51°N, even during winter solstice, I doubt the sun peeps above the horizon, to the south ?? :rolleyes:

...

[Blackdog_kt]

The earth's ecliptic plane (ie, the plane where the sun's trajectory in relation to the earth lies, if we where to consider the earth as stationary and the sun as moving in relation to it) is near the equator. The equatorial plane doesn't coincide with the ecliptic one because of the tilt in the earth's axis, but it is close.

As such, the sun might move east to west during the day, but its apparent trajectory is always offset towards the equator, regardless of where the observer is standing. What this means is that for an observer in the north hemisphere the sun's apparent trajectory is still an east to west arc across the sky, but this arc is offset to the south. Notice, the arc is offset...the rise and sundown points are still east and west, it's the arc that connects them that exhibits the shift towards the equator. For a southern hemisphere observer it's similar but offset to the north.

Now, i don't know exactly how high the sun should be, or how much to the south the arc of its apparent trajectory lies in the place we see in the screenshots, but there definitely should be a shift to the south in regards to the sun's trajectory across the sky.

Pretty impressive that they model such things if you ask me, as that could hint at more nifty features for the future...night bombing missions and navigating by the stars anyone? ;)

[Tbag]

Rudolphe, how can you be so sure that both images depict the same area?

[leggit]

i hope you were referring to the sky when you said the colour range was right, not the scenery

in the most recent screenshots with the low flying cluster of german aircraft over Brittan, the colour of trees and scrubs (and their spacing), looks to me more like the french maquis in a long bleaching summer, then the lush english vegetation in southern england (where i lived for 6 yrs)

since oleg repeatedly stated this is wip and vegetation colours and even trees shapes and types are not final, its not really worth debating if its right or wrong and i am not really concerned

somebody in the last couple of weeks posted 6 or 8 photographs of southern englands scenery (hedges and roads ?), and those colours were spot on from the way i remember them

here they are: posted by major-setback a few weeks ago: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=15218&highlight=hedges&page=15

the brightest green ones could have been after a couple of rainy days and then some hot/warm days, and the more washed out greens (still much brighter and more colourfull then the recent ones seen in oleg's latest screenshot) would have been after a week or 2 of summer weather without any rain. maybe we need to have a wip-around and get oleg a package deal for a weekend in southern england, after all it is summer there now and the colors should be about right. anybody here from southern england that can comment more on these colors ?

Sigh....1st of all let me say i've lived in southern england all my life (West Sussex) so i'm well aware of how it looks. you talk about colour as if its a fixed state. It's not it changes constantly. Colour or your perception of colour is determined by all sorts of factors; light weather the seasons time of day. You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc. my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different...most people look but only a few see.

[_RAAF_Stupot]

...



Congratulations to the villagers of Ellesborough, Buckinghamshire.

Following the publication of our last friday update, these special guests have received the extreme honour, of becoming exclusive virtual members of the BoBSoWNoSe * community.




Ellesborough Neighbourhood looking southbound :

http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Ellesborough.jpg

* BoB SoW North Sector : ))




At 51°N, even during winter solstice, I doubt the sun peeps above the horizon, to the south ?? :rolleyes:

...

It would, as it is below the arctic circle.

How did you figure out that Ellesborough location?

I think you are right about the location, BTW. You can see a river doing a bend in the screenshots, and if you check on Google maps you can see that the River Thames does that same bend!

It's funny becuase I would have guessed that the screenshots would have been taken from a location much further to the south - but maybe I am forgetting that England really is quite a small place - there is some statistic like no place in England is more than 100 km from the sea....... (or something like that).

[philip.ed]

Sigh....1st of all let me say i've lived in southern england all my life (West Sussex) so i'm well aware of how it looks. you talk about colour as if its a fixed state. It's not it changes constantly. Colour or your perception of colour is determined by all sorts of factors; light weather the seasons time of day. You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc. my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different...most people look but only a few see.

Ditto, lived in Kent all my life, and besides from some of the evergreens and areas where there may be more precipitation, leggit is spot on. I mean, we've had really hot weather recently, and then the other day it rains and there's an absence of sunlight and bingo, the grass is already greener ;)

[Rodolphe]

...

Rudolphe, how can you be so sure that both images depict the same area?




How did you figure out that Ellesborough location?



Use Google Earth to compare landscape, river valleys and woods and forests with those depicted on Oleg's screens. You Guys, that's pretty accurate ! :cool::cool::cool:

Start with the high altitude view than go down to the lower / ground level view.

http://www.checksix-forums.com/gallerie/albums/userpics/50000/Bucking.jpg



Sun position issue.


Hypothesis : The observer position alone has moved verticaly. The time is frozen.

On the high level view, check the relation between the Isle of Wight and the west coast of French Contentin and you'll find the sun has a southerly position.

On this ground level screenshot, look at the sun peeping south above the horizon.


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=2773&d=1278659463

Except if the observer lives near Tromsø, ;) at midwinter in the south UK :cool:, the sun should rise on a more eastward direction and should get a slightly more westerly sunset. :cool:


...

[Tbag]

Thanks for the explanation Rudolphe, that makes sense!

[caprera]

Fire sucks

[ECV56_LeChuck]

Fire sucks

Very productive comment.

[lbuchele]

Fire sucks

What did you mean?:)

[proton45]

I know its unlikely to happen, but I'd love to see crewmen panicking and screaming as their plane burns...

[Drum_tastic]

I hope you are joking proton45, if not your a very sick man.

[PeterPanPan]

Fire sucks

Isn't that the premise of the film Backdraft?! ;)

[zapatista]

Sigh...

you poor thing, all a bit much for you ?

You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc.

yes of course the countryside in england can dry out due to weeks of no rain, but no that doesnt mean that part of england suddenly turns into scenery that resembles the french maquis in the south of france during summer

looking closer at the pictures again, to try and identify what exactly makes the scenery in that recent shot look more southern-france then southern-england to me (cluster of low flying german bombers): i think it is mainly the color of the tree foliage being to light, it should be a much richer lively brighter green (and no, not fluro green like we had a few months ago).

my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different...most people look but only a few see.
no need for escaping into psychobabble

unless the person is color blind or has some other visual defect, seeing and interpreting the landscape color spectrum around you in real life is no magical mystery tour requiring profound interpretation, it simply is what it is and can be accurately reproduced in visual media like video or photographs.

note: oleg repeatedly stated this is wip and vegetation colours and even trees shapes and types are not final
note 2; the same screenshot i am saying has to much of a bleached look to it in tree/foliage (not the agricultural fields themselves) also for the 1e time starts to show some combined BoB elements of scenery, low flying planes, houses, roads, fields, trees, forest, hedges (yes even a monthy python shrubbery !). oleg posted the picture for that reason i suspect, and it is good to see the project coming together (looks good !)

[philip.ed]

Zapatista, don't get angry because you're wrong. He is 100% correct; as much as the colours will be affected by rain, there was a great absence of this in the major part of the BoB with the weather changing in July to one of the hottest summers in History. If you still live in Blighty, you'd know about this. No need to quote me and explain how I am wrong, both leggit and I are correct, and whilst the colours would be affected by precipitation, an absence of this means that the grass would look exactly like I can see outside. Even with some rain in the past day, the grass is still dry and yellowed.

Also, although the shots posted show all these features together, a set of screens posted last year showed mostly all of the listed features even with smoking chimneys, so apart some very WIP terrain textures we haven't really been shown much more.

[reflected]

Hmmm...the terrain looks very bright indeed, as if it was "Storm of War: Battle for Middle Earth"

Then again, it might be totally realistic. Unfortunately, I'm not British. Can anyone from the Misty Albion tell me how close this is to reality?

[philip.ed]

Hmmm...the terrain looks very bright indeed, as if it was "Storm of War: Battle for Middle Earth"

Then again, it might be totally realistic. Unfortunately, I'm not British. Can anyone from the Misty Albion tell me how close this is to reality?

Hey mate :D It's not close to how it would have looked during the BoB. I don't even think that these colours are that apparent in the wetter seasons here in Blighty...

http://www.bugbog.com/images/galleries/england_pictures/cotswolds_airview.jpg

something like this may be closer, but even then the greens may be a bit too lush ;)

[PeterPanPan]

Well, I live in the south east of England, and here's what I can see from my window right now.

http://www.360vision.co.uk/uploads/il2/grass.jpg

We have had very little rain lately, and it's been pretty hot, much like the summer of 1940. The garden on the left sees a lot of activity (kids, not Spits) and is not watered, much like a grass airfield 70 years ago. Looks pretty yellow to me.

The garden on the right has no kids and is watered all the time.

I'm guessing the one on the left is more realistic for 1940 airfield grass. Did people water their gardens in 1940? No idea. Does someone know?

Oh ... not saying which is my garden!!

PPanPan

[reflected]

They say "The neighbour's grass is always greener" so yours must be the one on the left :D

The in-game shots look a bit on the mynth green side compared to what Philip.Ed posted - me thinks

[zapatista]

and whilst the colours would be affected by precipitation, an absence of this means that the grass would look exactly like I can see outside. Even with some rain in the past day, the grass is still dry and yellowed.

why is it so hard to actually read the text that was written, instead of replacing it with your own preconceived idea's and then arguing with yourself pretending it is what i said ?

grasses and crop plants react relatively quickly to drought or rain, trees dont (roots are much deeper and able to still access water for a longer period), and it is trees that in that screenshot mostly look to bleached/light imo . if you are in indeed in kent, just go out for a walk in the countryside, and have a look at the color of the tree foliage and hedges. obviously they dont go brown or bleached in the summer (yet grasses and crops can). only in the last stages, when the tree is dying, will that actually happen

philip.ed, dont get confused by seeing forum threads as chat fest, nobody needs to agree with you (or me). other posters comment in this thread are about comparing current scenery colors/tones/shades with real life events (as much as we can do so for a ww2 period), and for that it will need photographs/video from real life, not opinion (be this yours or mine). if you want to be productive and live in kent and it is a long dry summer there again, maybe go out with a decent digital camera and go take some landscape/scenery shots to post here.

[PeterPanPan]

They say "The neighbour's grass is always greener" so yours must be the one on the left :D

Darn it, how did you guess?! :grin:

PPanPan

[zapatista]

that latest picture from peterpan exactly illustrates my point, one garden might be wattered during drought (and its grass is therefore much greener), but it makes absolutely no difference to the trees and their foliage color on either side, those are exactly the same

disclaimer: these are oleg wip shots we are talking about, with him repeatedly stating colors and textures are not final

[philip.ed]

Well, I was talking about grass; not trees so my fact stands :D

[zapatista]

Well, I was talking about grass; not trees so my fact stands :D

what still stands is your confusion :)


i hope you were referring to the sky when you said the colour range was right, not the scenery

in the most recent screenshots with the low flying cluster of german aircraft over Brittan, the colour of trees and scrubs (and their spacing), looks to me more like the french maquis in a long bleaching summer, then the lush english vegetation in southern england

that was my original comment, to which leggit replied he disagreed by saying

You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc. my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different.

to which you are brightly chirping in

Ditto, lived in Kent all my life, and besides from some of the evergreens and areas where there may be more precipitation, leggit is spot on. I mean, we've had really hot weather recently, and then the other day it rains and there's an absence of sunlight and bingo, the grass is already greener

so no, you were in fact telling me i was wrong in my suggestions for color improvements for trees and shrubs, and you were specifically commenting to ALL vegetation (except your "evergreens") and grass (as if that is what i had posted), and as you can see my original statement was never about grass at all (but trees and shrubs) :)



in consolation, may i present you with a shrubbery from the knights who say NI, NI, NI !!!

[philip.ed]

i was still referring to grass there with the added persepctive that evergrees add a lot of colour to the otherwise dry environment.
SImple misunderstanding here, as I know what I am talking about!

[zapatista]

all light hearted banter aside, in the latest screenshots this week the trees and shrubs (hedges etc) have now gone a much darker green (from the bleached and very light look we had last week), to dark i'd say in my humble opinion. looks now more like central europe, than the fair land of brits

still, since obviously oleg and Co can adjust this fairly quickly and easily "on the fly" (from one week to the next), i hope they take some of the constructive suggestions in consideration and look at some of the recent pictures posted for the "range of green" that is more typical in southern england. during the 6 yrs i lived in kent, i regularly traveled to northern france, belgium and holland. and the lush greens of england always stood out to me as having a very different "feel" and atmosphere compared to the vegetation in the neighboring countries. being able to get that "roughly right" in the colors and tones for BoB will do a lot to immersion and "suspending disbelief".

i am no photographer or digital grafix artist, but shouldnt it be possible to use some digital photographs of english scenery in a gfx program and then be able to exactly get the RGB values for the colors in the image ? doing that on a bunch of good digital images of english vegetation images should then be able to get a "color range" for the greens for different tree types, hedges, various shrubs, and grasses (the farm fields in the recent images looked pretty good to me, its the "greens" that didnt sem to represent england so far, to me at least)

hope all this is seen as the constructive feedback it is intended as :)

[philip.ed]

Well, I don't think the trees themselves look that good at the moment, so I will wait until it's released to pass judgement 100% but I agree with you zap.

Here's the thing, I was playing Il-2 today, and with forest=3 I can see the trees moving in the wind. I played WoP and the sequence looks a lot better in Il-2. As a flyer, I am happy to see moving grass, but maybe they don't need to have leaves themselves moving? Surely this way they could get better looking trees with less fps impact?

I mean, the trees in the first set of shots released look better than what we see now. I am sure everything will be tweaked a lot, but I think they should look at the trees in RoF and make ones that look similar, as the RoF trees look like English trees IMO.