The EXPLOSIONS in to The Battle Of Britain - Storm Of War.....

[BG-09]

Well Gentlemen,
Oleg and team,
It seems that every thing in Battle Of Britain - Storm Of War will be exceeding all expectations of the virtual pilot! But there is something that is making this simulator a combat simulator - THE EXPLOSIONS!!!

The explosions have simple logic - all physical objects fly away from one point in the middle of a imaginable sphere in equally retardant manner, and their trajectory is curved by the Earth gravity. Also air wave blast effect affects all objects around.

Will we see such magnificent EXPLOSIONS with all debris and earth peaces flying in to the air hundreds of meters in to the sky, as we can see them in to the old WWI and WWII documentary films?

If real physics of the explosion is modeled the Battle of Britain will be the not only the Ultimate flight simulator, but also the Ultimate War simulator!

Here is what I see as basic points for developing realistic explosions:
1. Explosions in to the air;
2. Explosions on to the surface of water;
3. Explosions under the water;
4. Explosions on to the surface of the earth;
5. Explosions under the surface of the earth.

Oleg, just imagine 1000 kg bomb exploding 6 meters below the ground and hundreds of stones flying in to the sky, and slowly falling down. What a PLEASURE!

ALL THAT I MEANT IN MY POST, IS HERE / THANKS TO Tone71!!! /
Enjoy the real Battle Of Britain EXPLOSION in seconds: 0:53 on this YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sImRRPrqMqo&feature=player_embedded

OLEG'S Answer to this topic:

Oleg Maddox
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 624
"We again calculate real pices flying in different sides.
But with more complex DM it is now more accurate."

Thanks Oleg! ;)

~S!

<------BG-09------<<<

[AKA_Tenn]

those are final effects, their the last things to be put into the game, and the likelyhood is we won't see those kindsa things till the thing is finished beta and gone gold. so far all oleg has shown us are models, with only the intention of showing us models, specifically stating that everything else is just because thats the only way to show the models, and that everything else has nothing to do with the final version of sow... in other words... he makes screenshots to show one specific detail most of the time, therefor the only way ur gonna see explosions and stuff is if oleg specifically wants to show you the explosions, and those explosions will be in the final game.

[BigPickle]

BG-09, you start your post saying as though stuff to do with explosions is going to happen and how much detail it will have etc, then you ask if it is going to happen.

Have I missed an annoucement about the explosion physics? or are you asking for these details, cos it sounds like its way beyond what is currently possible for the average pc.

A stick of 6 500lb bombs all exploding with the extended physics particals you are talking about would bring most average pc's to their knees surely?

[K_Freddie]

Do they actually have bombs exploding 6m below the ground.. For deep targets (the earthquake 20Klbs) that's OK, but bombs preferably should explode on or a few metres above the surface for maximum effect (as with modern day missiles..ect)
:grin:

[Skoshi Tiger]

They definately had contact and delayed action fuses for the bombs. Getting a bomb to detonate above ground was a bit iffy, I've seen pictures of bombs with contact fuses extending a yard or so out the front of the bomb. (Daisy cutters???)

There is a WWII war time documentry film called "Mission for today", in it they talk about bombing factories, they explain through use of drawings that with contact fuses the bombs detonate on the roof of the factories causing minimal damage to plant and machinery. By using delayed action fuses the bombs detonate at the ground level for maximum damage.

Cheers!

[Tone71]

Hi all. Been a lurker here for a few years now, waiting patiently for the release of BoB:SoW. Have read many posts with interest but haven't felt much need to reply until now.

I thought this might be of interest to some; here in the UK a TV series was recently aired called Blitz Street, where the effect of various WWII bombs was measured on a mock 1940's street. I have included a link to a YouTube vid that summarises the effect of 3 bombs but I urge anyone interested in the subject to look for the full episodes.

Overview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sImRRPrqMqo&feature=channel

Summary of SC-50, SC-500 and SC-1000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blZz5bo-GeQ

Tone.

[Space Communist]

Hi all. Been a lurker here for a few years now, waiting patiently for the release of BoB:SoW. Have read many posts with interest but haven't felt much need to reply until now.

I thought this might be of interest to some; here in the UK a TV series was recently aired called Blitz Street, where the effect of various WWII bombs was measured on a mock 1940's street. I have included a link to a YouTube vid that summarises the effect of 3 bombs but I urge anyone interested in the subject to look for the full episodes.


Huh very interesting. This makes me feel less frustrated about killing tanks. I used to be annoyed that I could land a 1000 kg bomb within several meters of a tank and not even scare it. I would have thought that even if the tank itself survived, the blast wave ought to kill the crew. However, if people in a little dirt and steel shelter would have suffered only ear damage 22 m from such a blast I should think tank crews would only be stunned. I would assume they all wore ear protection anyway to protect against their own main gun.

[BigPickle]

sadly its findings are totally false, all detonations are done without fragmentation and just blast from C4. Frag makes all the difference in an explosion, the outcome from 500lb bomb and the equivalent in C4 form are huge.

[swiss]

Frag will not penetrate the tank. The blast however could cause parts of the armor plates on the inside of the tank to disintegrate and cause shrapnels inside the tank - therefore killing crew.
HESH ammo works like that.
Keep in mind all AT weapons are only anti crew weapons, none is intended to wreck the tank itself(pretty impossible).

[Igo kyu]

Keep in mind all AT weapons are only anti crew weapons, none is intended to wreck the tank itself(pretty impossible).
That depends upon what you think the tank is.

The motor, electronics, ammo, smaller guns, turret bearings, tracks, wheels are all pretty destructible in certain circumstances, and if the thing "brews up", the chances of any of those except the wheels and tracks and maybe the engine surviving is minimal.

The blast however could cause parts of the armor plates on the inside of the tank to disintegrate and cause shrapnels inside the tank - therefore killing crew.
HESH ammo works like that.
Hesh relies on high explosive in direct contact with the outside of the tank. A near miss doesn't have that contact, and is unlikely to break chunks off the inside of the armour. Armour plate is tough and thick. Blast from a near miss is more likely to set off the ammo inside the tank, and that's not really likely either. Injury to the crew through the tank being thrown about is more likely, but even that's not very likely.

[swiss]

That depends upon what you think the tank is.

The motor, electronics, ammo, smaller guns, turret bearings, tracks, wheels are all pretty destructible in certain circumstances, and if the thing "brews up", the chances of any of those except the wheels and tracks and maybe the engine surviving is minimal.


Hesh relies on high explosive in direct contact with the outside of the tank. A near miss doesn't have that contact, and is unlikely to break chunks off the inside of the armour. Armour plate is tough and thick. Blast from a near miss is more likely to set off the ammo inside the tank, and that's not really likely either. Injury to the crew through the tank being thrown about is more likely, but even that's not very likely.

Believe me, I am a former tank cmdr.

what does HEAT do? Fry the crew with fluid copper
What does KE dos? the debris it tears off on the inside of (the armor plate of) the crew department are the projectiles to shred the crew.
Also, you dont light up the ammo, it's in a special compartment with a blast door anyway, but the hot oil of the hydraulics. Yummy, fried again.

Hesh: I googled a sec, sorry, it's German, but you get the idea.
http://gamelaunch.de/MEMBERS/manni/panzer/Prinzip_Hesh.jpg

S.o. told me once they calculate about 3crews until you have write off the tank, sounds about right. I talked to an Israeli who joined the IDF after the war, their job was to scratch the former crews from the walls - the tank itself was fine tho(or fixable)

[Xilon_x]

SCIENZE AND PHYSIC of BALLISTIC study.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JNP3D5KDcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHPEP7ziKmU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97nyIePE07o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAxySDG_jjs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnhUX78_YuU&feature=related

[BadAim]

I'd only add that all tanks are not created equal. Especially modern tanks compared to WWII tanks. I don't know of any WWII tanks with sealed ammo compartments like modern tanks. complete destruction of tanks by the ammo "brewing up" was very common in WWII, they didn't call the Sherman the "Tommy Cooker" for nothing (the Brits were somewhat less amused by this nickname than were the Germans). As a matter of fact, given the ammo storage arrangements in most WWII tanks it was rare to cause enough heat inside a tank to kill the crew without setting off the ammo (If ever). (Granted individuals might be killed by debris, or unable to bail out before brew up)

[Space Communist]

Again I am not talking about any kind of warhead contact on the tank itself. I just referring to being frustrated about dropping a pair of 1000 lb bombs a dozen meters from a tank and having them survive (in IL-2 obviously) This used to bother me immensely but now it seems more reasonable. I still can't imagine it being undamaged, but the thing is that the game (very reasonably) doesn't have advanced damage models for ground vehicles, they are basically alive or dead.

Actually now that I write that I am curious how the damaging of ground units works exactly in IL-2. I said they were either alive or dead but I guess they must have some sort of "hit-points" or something since it usually takes multiple gun strikes to take certain things out. Does anybody know precisely how this works?

[Stafroty]

Believe me, I am a former tank cmdr.

what does HEAT do? Fry the crew with fluid copper
What does KE dos? the debris it tears off on the inside of (the armor plate of) the crew department are the projectiles to shred the crew.
Also, you dont light up the ammo, it's in a special compartment with a blast door anyway, but the hot oil of the hydraulics. Yummy, fried again.

Hesh: I googled a sec, sorry, it's German, but you get the idea.
http://gamelaunch.de/MEMBERS/manni/panzer/Prinzip_Hesh.jpg

S.o. told me once they calculate about 3crews until you have write off the tank, sounds about right. I talked to an Israeli who joined the IDF after the war, their job was to scratch the former crews from the walls - the tank itself was fine tho(or fixable)

its not fluid copper, but acts as fluid because of really high pressure its having against armour plate when going innit in high speed. same thing bit with sabot rounds fired in test shots. (aluminium against something cant remember) the metal flows in metal. metals acts like they were fluid/melt even when they werent, and just because of high pressure.

there been tests done with heat ammo, cuttin cone in several pieces, shot on water and then extracted, to see if they melt together. didnt.


also, for simulation next to come i really hope that planes are not anymore flying 500kg boms when they explode midair/on ground.

most of my deaths in il-2 comes in this sim just because gettin caught by these monster explosions planes make after i shoot at them. sometimes they ignite to burn while i fly past them, then go boom when they are way behind me, killin me too.

there aint so much to go big boom in plane. not fuel can do such huge boom when its still in fuel tank and not perfectly mixed in huge area with air. fuel tank makes more likely buff, not a real explosion. sure it can rip plane in parts but thats just cause of huge amounts of gasses created but not going with high speed. few 10 meters per sec bout maxium.

also, oxy bottle doesnt make huge boom eighter, to explanate those huge booms they make, pressure is going from oxy bottle to every direction and is reduces really quickly in air. in compressed areas oxy bottle booms are different things. and oxy bottles aint that big in planes as well.

and ammo for guns.
ammo for guns would not go boom easily when they are in wings and fuselage takes the hits.
also, if ammo cooks off, it means the cases of ammo would most likely fly off as they are much lighter weight whan the bullets/projectiles. and as ammo isnt in the breech of the gun it means the pressure can spread everywhere and thus not pushing the projectiles in fast speeds like when fired from the gun.

also, projectiles detonators had safetys to prevent them to explode in their own time. some or most of them needed the fast spinning action made by riflin to get rid of the safetys made inside the detonator.

pls Oleg and crew, check again these unreal explosion damages planes make. there is lots of vids in youtube from plane crashes. using gasoline engines. they make no explosions as bombs do make, but fire puffs, which expanding speeds arent anywhere near the speeds of explosions and thus being able to rip stucture of flyby plane at distances of tens of meters.

[zapatista]

S.o. told me once they calculate about 3crews until you have write off the tank, sounds about right. I talked to an Israeli who joined the IDF after the war, their job was to scratch the former crews from the walls - the tank itself was fine tho(or fixable)

i have heard a similar story. from an australian who served in vietnam. he talked about him or collegues of his having to clean out the inside of tanks of human remains, sounded rather gruesome

i always presumed the tank would have been disabled or destroyed to, and found it odd they would get soldiers to clean the inside of the tanks where people had been killed (other then maybe removing dead bodies for funerals and identification etc)

never thought they'd be reusing the same tank again later with a new crew

[Skoshi Tiger]

In the viet nam era book, "Flight of the Intruder" (made into a film of the same name) The new pilot jumps into the cockpit of a plane only to find that eventhough they had fixed up the damage, they hadn't cleaned it out after the previous crew had been shot up!

Not sure if it's realistic, but hey it makes for a good story.

cheers!

[janpitor]

Once a czechoslovak pilot (dont remember the name) flew his spitfire back home above the channel, when he spotted a lancaster fighting with four messerschmidts. He saved the lanc in a long dogfight, but got shot. He managed to land the spit on his base, but died immediately due to excessive bleeding

In the viet nam era book, "Flight of the Intruder" (made into a film of the same name) The new pilot jumps into the cockpit of a plane only to find that eventhough they had fixed up the damage, they hadn't cleaned it out after the previous crew had been shot up!

Not sure if it's realistic, but hey it makes for a good story.

cheers!

[Afreaka]

'Real' explosions! An absolutely essential point worth spending time implementing. As I think this was one if not the only real recurring weakness in the previous, albeit still going strong, IL-2. With time only becoming more apparent. So in this perhaps late stage of development. I hope Oleg and Co. took the time to consider how all their beautiful scenery will and can be destroyed with great drama and sways of ultra-violence. :grin:

[Therion_Prime]

I once saw an animated gif of a (probably ww1) tank which gets lifted up in the air and flipped over after a near miss from a bomb but I can't find the gif anymore.

[deadmeat313]

I once saw an animated gif of a (probably ww1) tank which gets lifted up in the air and flipped over after a near miss from a bomb but I can't find the gif anymore.
I think I know the film footage you mean. I saw WWII footage once of an advancing tank being blown into the air and flipped - though I suspect it happened because it ran over a very large mine.

T.

[Stafroty]

hopin also that explosions happening in air, like cannon fire on plane, happens much faster than in il-2 now.

those slow puffs doesnt seem like real explosions, at all. animation is too slow, way too slow.

even firecrackers make faster flash than these in game :)

maybe dev team should check few explosion vids, ill add one for example.

even on slow motion you dont see the flash of explosion, only the end result which is black smoke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtOgY8L3Jy0

as we know, explosives burn several kilometres per second. in il-2, it feels like 10m per second.