Friday 2010-06-17 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[Oleg Maddox]

Trees in cities are currently turned off to test final buildings placement - rest assured our cities will be green for release!

The trees are still being improved, it's not the final version. As I told earlier – we will tune everything in every detail till end of the project…and then will improve for the next project :)

So don’t worry about some graphic and colors/lighting glitches that somebody may see on these screenshots.

Water (separate image from programmer’s PC) – is one of the various types in testing. The coastal and shelf (underwater) textures are not present on the shot (in progress).

[Oleg Maddox]

Some more

[pupo162]

nice!

citys look top notch, water looks just beutifull (maybe a crash in the water for next week, please :p ), and hurris also do look lovely targets for ze 109!

congrats Oleg!

[Daniël]

I've got just one thing to say and that is WOW:shock:

[TheSwede]

Amazing shots Oleg!
I showed the first picture to a dear colleague of mine and he asked me if I took that photo ;)

If you ever think of releasing a "Collectors Edition" or whatever I would gladly pay ~150$!

Regards
Simon

[Manchenko]

This is more then life!

[KaHzModAn]

I've got just one thing to say and that is WOW:shock:

you meant "SOW" right ? :lol:

Great shots Oleg ! I wasn't worried about the look of the ground... and I was right ! just awesome !

with textures under it, water will look great too...

you've made my day !

[philip.ed]

Oleg, great shots; love the water and the hurricane! :D

Regarding the landscape, the way to make it look realistic is to have actual hedges on either side of the roads (except maybe in the cities) to give a realistic view of the landscape. There appear to be some hedges, but every flight-sim on the market makes the mistake of only using tress to simulate the environment. Whilst this looks good, it lacks the realism.

Look at any photograph from the 1940 period of an aircraft in the air, and you will see that the fields look at though they have 3-d borders :D

Keep up the good work!

EDIT-and by the way, there were no rape-fields in 1940 (unless an innocent women walked onto a farm) so I don't think there should be any yellow fields.
Are these field textures showing the quality they will be in the final release?

[Meusli]

Bravo Sir, Bravo. The cities and landscape are excellent can't wait to see with trees in the city.

[96th_Nightshifter]

Very impressive Oleg, The water actually looks................wet lol

Cheers for the updates.

[Flyby]

I can't believe I'm on the second page of today's update! :D So much for frivolity.
Oleg, things seem to be coming along nicely. I am happy to see that there are options regarding weather condition in the FMB. Thanks to you and the team for the effort in trying to post regular update screen shots. It's a great boost to look forward to and see these regular updates. It also makes the waiting just a bit more tolerable (and keeps your Sow_BoB junkies off methadone!)
Flyby out

[96th_Nightshifter]

I can't believe I'm on the first page of today's update! :D So much for frivolity.


Too late ;)

[philip.ed]

There seems to be quite a queue :D

[fireflyerz]

LOl .ed , I bet ya av bin pushing the refresh button all day.

[Dano]

Looking great, slightly concerned at the lack of any elevation in any ground shots though.

[Intz]

City picture with three hurry s is Great ... cant wait the game:-P

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Oh my God Oleg , that looks amazing !! I think all game developers would benefit of being good photographers in the same time ;-)

And yes, me too I would gladly pay 150€ for collector's edition - with a good manual and maybe reproduction of historical flight map inside ( BoBII did something like that)

Question:

I absolutely loved when you introduced morning fog in IL2 -- that was amazing back in the time. With morning fog hanging in river valleys and such. Lovely !
Will you do that in BoB SoW ? (guess you will hehe) -- and do you have screenshot ? :-)

Thanks a lot and keep it up !!

[Oleg Maddox]

Looking great, slightly concerned at the lack of any elevation in any ground shots though.

There are elevations... and they are seen on the shots, however shown places where they are too small. Look on the shot with the Hurry over water.

PS. For elevations we use satellite data :).

[lbuchele]

a bit more tolerable (and keeps your Sow_BoB junkies off methadone!)
Flyby out

Too late!:cool:

[Oleg Maddox]

Question:

I absolutely loved when you introduced morning fog in IL2 -- that was amazing back in the time. With morning fog hanging in river valleys and such. Lovely !
Will you do that in BoB SoW ? (guess you will hehe) -- and do you have screenshot ? :-)

Thanks a lot and keep it up !!

Yes, it is. Too early to show :):):):)

[Dano]

There are elevations... and they are seen on the shots, however shown places where they are too small. Look on the shot with the Hurry over water.

PS. For elevations we use satellite data :).

Was just coming back to post that after looking closer I can see it lol :D

[philip.ed]

LOl .ed , I bet ya av bin pushing the refresh button all day.

:grin:

[Sutts]

Oleg, great shots; love the water and the hurricane! :D

Regarding the landscape, the way to make it look realistic is to have actual hedges on either side of the roads (except maybe in the cities) to give a realistic view of the landscape. There appear to be some hedges, but every flight-sim on the market makes the mistake of only using tress to simulate the environment. Whilst this looks good, it lacks the realism.

Look at any photograph from the 1940 period of an aircraft in the air, and you will see that the fields look at though they have 3-d borders :D

Keep up the good work!

EDIT-and by the way, there were no rape-fields in 1940 (unless an innocent women walked onto a farm) so I don't think there should be any yellow fields.
Are these field textures showing the quality they will be in the final release?

In terms of the yellow fields, I think that could be ripe wheat/barley/oats?

I also see some hedges but not enough of them...could be a performance thing I guess.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Yes, it is. Too early to show :):):):)

Yippiee !

[zichy]

Absolutely smashing pics. How extreme can the weather get? wind etc

Thankyou
:)

[Bloblast]

Love it excellent pictures!
Good job there!

[Sutts]

Great pics Oleg, looking superb:grin:

[erco]

Beautiful shots! I can't wait for the day when you put it all together and say HERE IT IS!

Thanks for the updates! I can't think of another game developer who interacts with their prospective audience/customers in such a intimate fashion. I wonder if you know just how much we appreciate that? It's something special to watch you guys create.

All of these Friday updates leave me eager to see (AFTER game is done!;-) a "Making of SOW" documentary. How you are building such an incredible world is fascinating to me.

And for the 'Special Edition', price should be no more than $100!

[the Dutchman]

Very nice indeed,i do still see repetitive terrain tiles though.................is there no way around that?

[Tempest123]

Wow, looks excellent! I really like the detail in the cities and the nice curves on the hurri and beau.

[Oleg Maddox]

I can't believe I'm on the second page of today's update! :D So much for frivolity.
Oleg, things seem to be coming along nicely. I am happy to see that there are options regarding weather condition in the FMB. Thanks to you and the team for the effort in trying to post regular update screen shots. It's a great boost to look forward to and see these regular updates. It also makes the waiting just a bit more tolerable (and keeps your Sow_BoB junkies off methadone!)
Flyby out

You are the first who noticed it. I placed this shot with two targets: one is wather and another - to show the quality of the ship :)

The first target to show that we keep main features and use of Il-2 FMB which will be very useful for Il-2 players. And then we add a lot of new features in the same frame of use like the old one. We keep even most hot buttons or button + mose controls the same.

In the gmaeplay we have two controls of views - the new one due to more greater use of muse (clicable cocpits) and by the switch - same as in Il-2.

Everything for easy transfer from old to the new one... by other words - in terms of user friendly transfer.

[zapatista]

Oleg,

excellent looking new shots, the scenery is looking very good already ! also excellent distant visibility, the horizon looks very good with distant objects/shorelines visible.

one observation: looking at the scenery shots one thing seems to be missing with the country houses, there are no gardens around them ! it makes the houses look a little odd just placed in the scenery like that (even if there are roads/driveways leading to them)

question: will there be time for the final release to have some gardens and fences around the countryside house ? could work with making 3 or 4 fence types (picket fence, wire fence etc), and 3 or 4 garden types (just short grass, medium grass, some scrubs or flowers and grass. for ex). mixing the fence and garden types randomly would then give many combinations that add variety to the scenery.

having gardens around the houses might seem trivial, but looking at the low altitude shots that is the main thing that seems missing. i would also agree with the earlier comment from another poster about the need for some hedges at some of the field edges, and needing them next to many of the smaller country roads (having lived 6 yrs in kent in southern england, i know the type of scenery there )

[Oleg Maddox]

Oleg,

excellent looking new shots, the scenery is looking very good already ! also excellent distant visibility, the horizon looks very good with distant objects/shorelines visible.

one observation: looking at the scenery shots one thing seems to be missing with the country houses, there are no gardens around them ! it makes the houses look a little odd just placed in the scenery like that (even if there are roads/driveways leading to them)

question: will there be time for the final release to have some gardens and fences around the countryside house ? could work with making 3 or 4 fence types (picket fence, wire fence etc), and 3 or 4 garden types (just short grass, medium grass, some scrubs or flowers and grass. for ex). mixing the fence and garden types randomly would then give many combinations that add variety to the scenery.

It is a great manual work... now two persons working over it. I hope in most places you will see these details. Many of them were done in 3D models. As well as many special nice details for the airfields that make them looking lifelike.

And as the samples of manually painted textures we use the photos. Modern and old of WWII time.
Not all things is possible, but we try to make everything looking like it was at 1940... Hard to find enough color material for that.

[choctaw111]

Just WOW!
This is all such great work.
I am looking forward to seeing this in high res and AA turned on :)

[KOM.Nausicaa]

It is a great manual work... now two persons working over it.

Yes probably the exact same work than making such things in full mission builder in IL2 ... I can imagine. How many saturday afternoons I have spent putting fences and telegraph lines in Il2 FMB !

[Mango]

I absolutely loved when you introduced morning fog in IL2 -- that was amazing back in the time. With morning fog hanging in river valleys and such. Lovely !
Will you do that in BoB SoW ? (guess you will hehe) -- and do you have screenshot ? :-)

Agreed, that morning mist was the most immersive experience I've ever had in a virtual world! :D There is nothing like weather phenomena to really make you feel like you're there. (remember Morrowind?)

[Flip]

I have a little question regarding the clouds:

are there plans to include different cloud types (especially the high altitude ones) ?

[Schallmoser]

Excellent Work!
Thanks very much for the update!!!

I noticed the beaufighter has the observer/navigator modelled.
Can we hope for a user playable station?

keep up the good work!!!

cheers
Schallmoser

[philip.ed]

Oleg, do you have an answer to my question on page-1? ;)

[Oleg Maddox]

Yes probably the exact same work than making such things in full mission builder in IL2 ... I can imagine. How many saturday afternoons I have spent putting fences and telegraph lines in Il2 FMB !

Yes, something like this.
Auto is impossible... too different models now and mor comples textures of ground that to make some tool that would place it auto...

[Hunger]

Nice update !!
The Avro Anson looks good, it also looks like an easy mark with all that glass walls for the crew.

Regards

Hunger

[Oleg Maddox]

I have a little question regarding the clouds:

are there plans to include different cloud types (especially the high altitude ones) ?

Yes we will have several types. Answered several times in the past.

[Oleg Maddox]

Oleg, do you have an answer to my question on page-1? ;)

There is the answer for this the 5 posts above.

[Flip]

Yeswe wil, have several types. Answere several times in the past.

A, sorry. Must have missed that.

Stunning modeling of the landscape. Absolutetly top notch. I have seen nothing like this before in flight sims. It will be the first time that you will actually have to search for targets on the roads because of the dense foliage ;) .

[Oleg Maddox]

nice!

and hurris also do look lovely targets for ze 109!

congrats Oleg!

It is plane that won the BoB....
So before you shot down Hurry, this plane may shot down couple of bombers :)
Depending of pilot of course :)

[Dano]

It is plane that won the BoB....
So before you shot down Hurry, this plane may shot down couple of bombers :)
Depending of pilot of course :)

Are we going to be treated to an in game Hurricane cockpit shot like we had of the 109 soon? :D

[Chopa]

"there were no rape-fields in 1940 (unless an innocent women walked onto a farm) so I don't think there should be any yellow fields."

Hmmm, oil-seed rape wasn't introduced into Britain until after 1940? You learn something new every day!

Mustard............ or Buttercups....:-)

[BG-09]

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww wwww...
~S!

[major_setback]

....

EDIT-and by the way, there were no rape-fields in 1940 (unless an innocent women walked onto a farm) so I don't think there should be any yellow fields.
Are these field textures showing the quality they will be in the final release?

Re Yellow fields - I think there may have been mustard fields. I'm unsure exactly how they looked though.
We had fields where I lived as a child that were yellow, and we called the crop they grew mustard.

Edit: Mustard looks the same are rape seed, if you look on Wikipedia for 'mustard plant'.

[335th_GRExandas]

Hi Oleg truly great work!!

1. How close (in time) is it to see a dogfight movie (spit - emil)?
2. Please post at least 1 photo with a damaged emil inside and outside
(random damage) to see.

Thanks in advance

[zodiac]

Excellent post Oleg! I love fridays.

By seeing the great reflections on the cockpit glass, I was wondering if they will be visible from long distances. I remember from the times I was in an airplane that reflections on the ground really caught my attention. It would be nice if you could spot planes from long distances by those flashes.

[philip.ed]

So Oleg, how are colours going to be modelled for the fields. Is the scenary going to be fluent, in the sense that if I drove down any of the roads, there wouldn't be trees in the roads or the fields will all fit together well?

Also, I know the trees are all WIP but look at this:
http://www.bugbog.com/images/galleries/england_pictures/cotswolds_airview.jpg

focus on the bottom right-hand corner of the shot, at the hedges are clear. Also, notice the open space; the landscape is not at all cluttered ;)

[Oleg Maddox]

Hi Oleg truly great work!!

1. How close (in time) is it to see a dogfight movie (spit - emil)?
2. Please post at least 1 photo with a damaged emil inside and outside
(random damage) to see.

Thanks in advance

We have new specialists for the effects. When they will be done then we may post video. At the moment I dislike to show too much.

You know we are posting our work not like others. We show all in details step by step, but not the only final videos and shots. We show real work in progress...
Really it is my own input(principles) coming in game industry more than 10 years ago, that some developers also copied. :)

[Feathered_IV]

The planes look very beautiful Oleg. May I ask, will your BoB have the big raids with 3-400+ aircraft in the sky at the same time? or will it be more the smaller battles with 50-60 aircraft, like in Il-2?

[Oleg Maddox]

So Oleg, how are colours going to be modelled for the fields. Is the scenary going to be fluent, in the sense that if I drove down any of the roads, there wouldn't be trees in the roads or the fields will all fit together well?

Also, I know the trees are all WIP but look at this:
http://www.bugbog.com/images/galleries/england_pictures/cotswolds_airview.jpg

focus on the bottom right-hand corner of the shot, at the hedges are clear. Also, notice the open space; the landscape is not at all cluttered ;)


1. Photo is too much saturated.
2. Yopu may see already that we have all roads clear, even in forest under the crowns of trees. However we have not yet bridges. This is also great manual work to place them in the right places of the rodas and rail roads (and some part auto). The dark lines on the map on the shots - rivers. Also I noticed in the text of update that we have some glitches that we should correct till end (means some glitches of textures as well).
3. Repeating: for our textures we use satellite data and photos of WWII time - mix. That to make it looking not like it is now, but more close to WWII time. And really it is not easy to find all things now for all surface of the map.

[Oleg Maddox]

The planes look very beautiful Oleg. May I ask, will your BoB have the big raids with 3-400+ aircraft in the sky at the same time? or will it be more the smaller battles with 50-60 aircraft, like in Il-2?

It may depends of the PC power and altitude of flight. As more close to the ground more power PC you ned that to render many aircraft at the same time.
Can't say you exact amount of aircraft in the air. Simply because the full graphics settings are not finished yet.

[philip.ed]

Thanks for the reply Oleg. You are right about colour, I wasn't focusing on that, but I was more intrigued by the use of trees. IMO, apart from in forest areas with larger trees, small trees/scrubs/bushes should be the most frequent on the map.
Excellent work.

I did have a website that I looked at once which had aerial shots of areas in England around the 1940's. I can't find the site though.

[Flyby]

You are the first who noticed it. I placed this shot with two targets: one is wather and another - to show the quality of the ship :)

The first target to show that we keep main features and use of Il-2 FMB which will be very useful for Il-2 players. And then we add a lot of new features in the same frame of use like the old one. We keep even most hot buttons or button + mose controls the same.

In the gmaeplay we have two controls of views - the new one due to more greater use of muse (clicable cocpits) and by the switch - same as in Il-2.

Everything for easy transfer from old to the new one... by other words - in terms of user friendly transfer.
all the better to make my Flyby-Die-by missions, my friend. I liked the IL2 FMB. The new FMB looks so familiar and intuitive that I will probably get a lot of virtual pilots killed! :D
Flyby out

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hope the Avro is flyable, It would be an ideal partner for the Tiger Moth at the training unit so we can get our multi-engine endorsements!

Cheers and thanks for the updates!

[AdMan]

just a matter of sitting back and watching it all come together now :cool:

[Il2Pongo]

Still impressed most by how "solid" the aircraft look. Its quite striking to me. Is it just a feature of the resolution? or the polygon count? Its like the perfect shape has been achieved and that makes the model look like a solid item.
Fantastic work anyway,

[Oleg Maddox]

Excellent post Oleg! I love fridays.

By seeing the great reflections on the cockpit glass, I was wondering if they will be visible from long distances. I remember from the times I was in an airplane that reflections on the ground really caught my attention. It would be nice if you could spot planes from long distances by those flashes.

I hope yes. Right now it isn't like in real life. But I would like to have it realistic and not like the all the time winking. It should be really rare effect and almost not visible in some diection and distances.

Ok, hard to explain with my poor English... Simply I want to get it not like the hack... We will see in final...

[engarde]

excellent previews, looks great despite WIP.

thanks for the regular small updates, keeps the interest alive.

[Robert]

Thank you sir. Very nice work from the crew and the updates are appreciated.

[philip.ed]

Is there any other games developer who spends the time to talk to the community like this? Cheers Oleg, great work on your part.

Just one simple question: is the game still on the tables for a release this year? :cool:

[johnnypfft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDGw5DAqtf4

[KaHzModAn]

Yep, this is great and unique that you take time to awnser our questions !
in other big productions they only do small teaser videos and don't ask anyone if it looks good or not... they just say it's perfect...

so, just a question ! :-P
in the screens with the Hurri being at a pretty low altitude, we don't see any grass, was it desactivated for the screens or is it just still too far to see it ?
i can say it would require a lot of PC ressources to have them from a good distance so, will this be an option ? scalable ?

[Oleg Maddox]

Just one simple question: is the game still on the tables for a release this year? :cool:

I hope we would not die doing it.... we should finish.
I personally working over the next sim theater.... doing the doc what should be there that to make it interesting for all...
And two variants of theaters... depending of possible calculated in future income.... I hope you understand me right.

[philip.ed]

So does that mean that it will be released soon, because you are already looking towards the future? A lot is already here for a North-African theatre :grin:

[Oleg Maddox]

Yep, this is great and unique that you take time to awnser our questions !
in other big productions they only do small teaser videos and don't ask anyone if it looks good or not... they just say it's perfect...

so, just a question ! :-P
in the screens with the Hurri being at a pretty low altitude, we don't see any grass, was it desactivated for the screens or is it just still too far to see it ?
i can say it would require a lot of PC ressources to have them from a good distance so, will this be an option ? scalable ?

The grass take a lot of resorces in the fligth sim (great surface covered to show). So it is switching smoothly off at some distance. Currently it is neccessary.

[Oleg Maddox]

I should run at home.

So will read all on Monday then.

[philip.ed]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooo

[KaHzModAn]

The grass take a lot of resorces in the fligth sim (great surface covered to show). So it is switching smoothly off at some distance. Currently it is neccessary.

ok thanks, i can understand it is neccessary, I want it to pretty but be playable too! :rolleyes:

oh and BTW nobody saw that mistake or said it, but we are friday 18 not 17... I guess you do need to run home and get some sleep ! :grin:

[Lemmi]

Amazing shots. What about the Avro Anson ? I think AI-only !?

[Chivas]

There are elevations... and they are seen on the shots, however shown places where they are too small. Look on the shot with the Hurry over water.

PS. For elevations we use satellite data :).

Thanks Oleg. These screenshots are the most impressive so far.

Years ago you mentioned that SOW will have river bank elevations. Its hard to tell if the creeks in these screenshots have an elevation change. Do you still plan this feature? River banks would make the terrain come to life even more than they do already.

~Salute~
Chivas

[AdMan]

Still impressed most by how "solid" the aircraft look. Its quite striking to me. Is it just a feature of the resolution? or the polygon count? Its like the perfect shape has been achieved and that makes the model look like a solid item.
Fantastic work anyway,
modeled from original drawings. I've noticed most sims, especially ww2 the planes look too thin/flimsy, especially in the wings.

[mark@1C]

I've got just one thing to say and that is WOW:shock:

Me too...with two additional wows,
Wow~,wow~,wow~.....
looks like encouraging news.
Cheers.

[Ekar]

Looking good :)

Still a bit to go in the landscape department in terms of matching the graphical fidelity of Wings of Prey. But really getting there...

As a point of difference, the trees in Wings of Prey really do have a nice sense of volume. The landscape textures also seem to be higher res than the SOW screens I've seen so far. I can see in these latest screens that the textures also blur out fairly aggressively away from the camera, but as you mention the graphical settings aren't finalised.

Very excited to see SOW mature into a powerhouse of a sim.

Take your time and get things looking and flying as best they can. :grin:

Cheers,

[Viking]

I know Elvis have left the building but….
“for our textures we use satellite data and photos of WWII time – mix”….
All I can say is, and probably so at the time of release, is whooow!

[Flanker35M]

S!

Nice to see SoW shape up nicely! And the GUI looked familiar ;) Have a nice weekend!

[Pato Salvaje]

Stuning amazing impressive great photos!!!! Thank You Oleg!!!
Keep Us Friday-addicted please!!!! ;-)

[|ZUTI|]

I can again also just say WOW!

But, Oleg, can I ask what is being done regarding shore lines? I still look at this with jaw dropped :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqpCx8MdNss&feature=related

Just a short video of this? Perhaps? :D

[robday]

Great update, that Anson looks superb with the sun glinting off the canopy and the light striking through the shadow on the port wingroot. Fantastic! I just hope I'll be able to afford a computer to do it all justice!

[Qpassa]

fantastic screenshots , do want special edition!! ;)

[zauii]

Amazing work, still hoping for a 2010 release.

[proton45]

I dont think my faith has been misplaced...this game is looking like it will really deliver the goods! Fantastic !!!!

[Richie]

We had an in game cockpit shot of a 109???

[Redwan]

Great job !

Landscapes, textures, trees, water, planes, everything looks great and very realistic !!!!

[Baron]

We had an in game cockpit shot of a 109???



http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=15024

[ATAG_Dutch]

So does that mean that it will be released soon, because you are already looking towards the future? A lot is already here for a North-African theatre :grin:

If I understood Oleg correctly, he meant 'if we don't die in the attempt, we should finish'. As your question asked if it would be released this year, this implies that it will.
Or is that just my own wishful thinking? It would be a shame if release didn't coincide with the 70th anniversary year.
Here's hoping for 15th September release to make it perfect............!

[SlipBall]

Thank's to you as always!...very impressive up-date as always!:grin:

[zakkandrachoff]

the work is very impressive
i see miss something:- the terrain of the city need more texture and things

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/zakkandrachoff/shot_20100617_205618.jpg

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/zakkandrachoff/beta_03.jpg

anyway., nice updates. video will be the besto of the best of the best

[Il2Pongo]

the work is very impressive
i see miss something:- the terrain of the city need more texture and things

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/zakkandrachoff/shot_20100617_205618.jpg

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/zakkandrachoff/beta_03.jpg

anyway., nice updates. video will be the besto of the best of the best

He said the trees and stuff were not in the city, right in the first post.

[Friendly_flyer]

Everything for easy transfer from old to the new one... by other words - in terms of user friendly transfer.

Very good point, and one that is greatly appreciated! Also, thank you for the beautiful Hurricane shots!

One thing: The Hurricane seem to have slightly more reflectivity from it's fabric covered surfaces than from the metal ones. Shouldn't it be the other way around, or is it just a trick of the (virtual) light?

[lbuchele]

As long I understood Oleg, SOW is ready, in post-production stage ( details...)
We all know how much people here are addicted to details ( I was amazed with the guy who actually known the right place of the Taifun´s landing light )
The process of fine tuning seems to be tedious and very hard to do with lots of manual work ( art...)
When he said he was in the process of doing the docs of the next sim I understood
that ´s like a film director doing the storyboard before starting the shooting,right?:grin:
It´s obvious that SOW will be a landmark in flight sims, we just don´t fully realized how big it will really be.
My real concern is about the system needed to run this baby.
Probably the oficial recommended specs in the box will be something like: DO THE BEST YOU CAN DO,MAN!:mrgreen:

[ElAurens]

Hope the Avro is flyable, It would be an ideal partner for the Tiger Moth at the training unit so we can get our multi-engine endorsements!

Cheers and thanks for the updates!

Oleg, one of the very first model airplanes I ever made when I was a lad was an Avro Anson I. I have wanted to "fly" one ever since. I am now 56 years old and I hope that I can fly one in the virtual sky of Storm Of War.

Excellent update.

Thank you very much.

[Romanator21]

On planes I've seen, fabric covered surfaces are not any less glossy than metal ones, assuming they've been doped and painted.

A lot seem to be anticipating a North Africa theatre next, but the battle of France would only require the addition of French aircraft. The battle of Norway and Holland are also strong possibilities. I personally can't wait for battle of Poland and Spanish Civil War scenarios: more plane types involved than I'll know what to do with.

Great screen shots so far. I'm curious as to how the marking system will work: results like from MAT Manager or better?

EDIT: Although your team is still adding objects and tuning terrain and other features on the map, is it safe to say that the final size of the map has been determined? If so, how big is it? Any images of the final map?

[Zorin]

Great progress Oleg!

Please tell your 3d guys that they are doing a fantastic job, especially the ones who are building all the other stuf, like buildings, cars and ships. These will be essential to making this sim feel lifelike and usually falls short when it comes to proper appreciation.

@lbuchele: Thanks. ;)

[zakkandrachoff]

On planes I've seen, fabric covered surfaces are not any less glossy than metal ones, assuming they've been doped and painted.

A lot seem to be anticipating a North Africa theatre next, but the battle of France would only require the addition of French aircraft. The battle of Norway and Holland are also strong possibilities. I personally can't wait for battle of Poland and Spanish Civil War scenarios: more plane types involved than I'll know what to do with.

Great screen shots so far. I'm curious as to how the marking system will work: results like from MAT Manager or better?

EDIT: Although your team is still adding objects and tuning terrain and other features on the map, is it safe to say that the final size of the map has been determined? If so, how big is it? Any images of the final map?

my hope future STORM OF WAR maps
this is i hope:
Goulf Of finland (leningrad)
http://estonia.blogsome.com/images/map_estonia.jpg

War for Malta and sicily (HMS Argus HMS Eagle HMS Glorious)
http://symbioticpublishing.com/images/Malta/Photos/Map%20of%20Malta.jpg

crimea (i can fly this map whit close eyes)
http://rkka.ru/maps/krym.gif

and my fallhope conflict: 1971 pakistan-indian air war with no precise missile

[Fansadox]

Nice screens but why are all screenshots without AF and AA?

[lbuchele]

my hope future STORM OF WAR maps
this is i hope:
Goulf Of finland (leningrad)
http://estonia.blogsome.com/images/map_estonia.jpg

War for Malta and sicily (HMS Argus HMS Eagle HMS Glorious)
http://symbioticpublishing.com/images/Malta/Photos/Map%20of%20Malta.jpg

crimea (i can fly this map whit close eyes)
http://rkka.ru/maps/krym.gif

and my fallhope conflict: 1971 pakistan-indian air war with no precise missile

I´m really with you in your dream,zakkandrachoff.

[lbuchele]

What about that Beau?
The first unit operational was the 29 Squadron , in 17-18 September 1940 and it was a night fighter unit.
That model seems to have radar antennas too.
Is this a hint to realistic night fighter ground guided with early radar operations in SOW?

[AC_Black]

~S~

Thanks for the Pics Oleg.. can wait as long as it takes to finish it as long as it continues to look like these pictures LOL

[LukeFF]

and my fallhope conflict: 1971 pakistan-indian air war with no precise missile

Sure, if you don't want it to have any market success.

[Bobb4]

AS I understand it, DLC is going to be a big deal in SOW.
So I was wondering, planes that are in the game and are not flyable as yet, will the tools be given to modders to speed up the process of bringing them on line.
I see in one of the screen shots a Wellington Bomber (I think) so I would think the FM would already be made for it so all that would be needed is to biuld the cockpit etc...
Obviously plane mods and new planes will have to meet your standards but I was wondering how fast from release before DLC will be available?

[Skoshi Tiger]

AS I understand it, DLC is going to be a big deal in SOW.
So I was wondering, planes that are in the game and are not flyable as yet, will the tools be given to modders to speed up the process of bringing them on line.
I see in one of the screen shots a Wellington Bomber (I think) so I would think the FM would already be made for it so all that would be needed is to biuld the cockpit etc...
Obviously plane mods and new planes will have to meet your standards but I was wondering how fast from release before DLC will be available?

Sorry,

not sure what you mean by DLC???? Downloadable Content????


Cheers

[ATAG_Dutch]

As long I understood Oleg, SOW is ready, in post-production stage ( details...)
We all know how much people here are addicted to details ( I was amazed with the guy who actually known the right place of the Taifun´s landing light )
The process of fine tuning seems to be tedious and very hard to do with lots of manual work ( art...)
When he said he was in the process of doing the docs of the next sim I understood
that ´s like a film director doing the storyboard before starting the shooting,right?:grin:
It´s obvious that SOW will be a landmark in flight sims, we just don´t fully realized how big it will really be.
My real concern is about the system needed to run this baby.
Probably the oficial recommended specs in the box will be something like: DO THE BEST YOU CAN DO,MAN!:mrgreen:

+1 on all counts. :grin:

[Tbag]

Is it just my imagination or do the wave fronts bend towards the shore line?

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2353/shot20100618145726.jpg

[Xilon_x]

I watch the shadows of clouds over the sea.
The color of the sea change if it also changes the color of the sky.
the sea like a mirror of the sky.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2353/shot20100618145726.jpg

[phoenix1963]

So Oleg, how are colours going to be modelled for the fields. Is the scenary going to be fluent, in the sense that if I drove down any of the roads, there wouldn't be trees in the roads or the fields will all fit together well?

Also, I know the trees are all WIP but look at this:
http://www.bugbog.com/images/galleries/england_pictures/cotswolds_airview.jpg

focus on the bottom right-hand corner of the shot, at the hedges are clear. Also, notice the open space; the landscape is not at all cluttered ;)

Actually, philip.ed's picture here is pretty accurate (maybe very slightly over saturated for the dustier greens of late summer). It's of somewhere in the Cotswolds rather than Kent, but no rapeseed in sight and more rolling elevations than most of Kent. It does show the importance of the hedgrows and contiguous woodland rather than individual trees.
Oleg's trees look better than I feared from last week's post, but they still look like silver birches with light foliage rather than the rich oaks & elms. Also they still don't merge together like RL, which makes the scenes look a little cartoony.
It's good to see so much progress.

56RAF_phoenix

[Jaws2002]

The water in the last two shots is gorgeous. :-Phttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Sea water can have many color and in many areas, when in the sunlight, is just beautiful blue like in your last two screenshots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
This just put to rest one of my very few concerns about SOW.

Bloody great work gents! Thank you.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


It looks like the lakes on the Canadian Icefield Parkway I've seen few weeks ago:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/Icefieldparkway773.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

[philip.ed]

Yes, in the shot I posted the trees quite look dense when together, whereas olegs look quite tall and spindly. It's hard to explain, as from an aerial view they'll look very similar, but down low it's more obvious. I think that, when down low, the trunk of the tree should be more obscured by the foliage. I know all of the work is WIP, but the shot that I posted does show how everything should be looking (the colour may be saturated, but Oleg's colours look more autumnal than they should)

;)

[Alien]

Oleg, please answer the question:
Will the metal bend while hitting the ground or water or other object???

[daHeld]

What about that Beau?
The first unit operational was the 29 Squadron , in 17-18 September 1940 and it was a night fighter unit.
That model seems to have radar antennas too.
Is this a hint to realistic night fighter ground guided with early radar operations in SOW?

Correct. The model depicted here is a Mk.If night fighter. So actually I'd say it should be painted black overall, not Dark green/dark earth over sky...

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Wow, this is looking great, almost as good looking as Olga, (almost!) lol! :grin:

Keep up the good work chaps, really looking forward to the dynamic weather too, looks like you can adjust it with a lot of precision in the FMB.

Carry on! :)

[Jaws2002]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/shot_20100617_205717.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/shot_20100617_211743.jpg


If hurricane had a wallet, it would be writen "Bad M.F-er" all over it.:lol:

:mrgreen:

[Therion_Prime]

In the gmaeplay we have two controls of views - the new one due to more greater use of muse (clicable cocpits) and by the switch - same as in Il-2.


Woah, did I miss something? CLICKABLE COCKPITS ??

Woot?

[Tbag]

TP, you might want to check this out:

http://www.checksix-fr.com/articles/Articles_html/inter_Oleg_Foxy/interview_oleg_foxy_EN.html

[BadAim]

Jaws, did you notice the clean, unpunctured tape over the guns? Way cool. This is definitely my new desktop.

[Therion_Prime]

TP, you might want to check this out:

http://www.checksix-fr.com/articles/Articles_html/inter_Oleg_Foxy/interview_oleg_foxy_EN.html

Thanks, I really missed that.

Woot, clickable cockpits, woot!

[daHeld]

Yes, you seem to have missed the best news since announcing SOW for the first time: We will have CLICKABLE cockpits :grin:

[Coog]

Oh yeah, those guns haven't reacted to the trigger finger just yet. Very nice detail.

P.S. On the Hurricane coming right at us, that is.

[Codex]

I watch the shadows of clouds over the sea.
The color of the sea change if it also changes the color of the sky.
the sea like a mirror of the sky.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2353/shot20100618145726.jpg

Looks like beds of seaweed to me.

[major_setback]

I want the water to look like this :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cx6V0QAVEU

http://www.sonicbomb.com/iv1.php?vid=air_battle_1&id=453&h=300&w=400&ttitle=WW2%20Airbattle%20over%20Dover

:-)

[myramones]

nice !!
we have many images of bob.
can you release some sound effects??

[Ibis]

When I clicked on those screenies my computer cowered under my desk wimpering like a beaten dog.
sheeesh, lovely, can't wait.
Thanks Oleg, great work sir.
salute.
Ibis.

[Sturm_Williger]

When I clicked on those screenies my computer cowered under my desk wimpering like a beaten dog.
...


Lol, yeah mine too. I love Fridays, but my PC gets veeerry twitchy !

[Blackdog_kt]

This is so amazing, i would buy it in its current state even before it's completely finished.

Sure, some tweaking here and there might be needed but the overall progress is phenomenal. Just like i said in a previous update, the total is better than the sum of its parts.

Details are so lifelike, even the landing lights on the Hurri look like proper 3D objects, the unpunctured tape over the guns is another nice touch and i'm amazed to see so many small, "hidden" details like the waves that look like following the outline of the beach that i didn't notice until someone else mentioned it.

A very big thank you to the entire development team. Isn't it funny how we went from the pessimism of previous years to an all around "ooh ah" reaction by pretty much everyone? :grin:
Seems like the wait was worth it and i hope it will also be worth it for Oleg and his team to have been putting up with our endless nagging all these years. This is going to sell like hot cakes in the simulator world and rightly so. I don't usually do preorders or collector's editions but for this one i would probably pay 70-100 Euros for a collector's edition, depending on what's in the box.

I can hardly wait to fly it, i'm sure it will fly and sound realistic but this one also looks absolutely beautiful, with a vastly improved sense of scale and flight. I'd probably be willing to stand on a remote crossroads at night and sell my soul to get in the beta test :grin:

EDIT:
Since there's support for mutliple crewmen in multiplayer, why don't you help us help you sell more copies? I have a small idea. I'm also waiting for Starcraft 2 to be released this July (a strategy game) and i remembered something. Back in the day i used to play a lot of the original Starcraft. I wasn't impressed initially, but they had a very clever marketing trick that helped many people get to know the game. You see, a friend of mine had bought it and i used his CD to create a special, stripped down installation on my PC. Every person who had bought a copy could install the full game (single and multi) by using the CD-key provided, but he could also create as many stripped-down installations as he wanted for his friends. This way, with a single copy dozens of people could be playing multiplayer and get to know the game. This boosted sales massively. For example, initially only one of my friends had bought it but after a couple of weeks we all went and bought it too. The way it worked was that you could play multiplayer with the "small" installation, as long as you had someone with the full version to host the game session for you, like a multiplayer demo.

Why not do something similar for SoW with training missions? We have a Tiger Moth and a BF108 and we have support for multiple crewmen online. A lot of my friends are into WWII history but nobody is into flight sims because they think it's too hard or they don't have an easy way for someone to teach them the basics, so they are reluctant to make the investement needed to buy a joystick and a flight simulator because they aren't sure if they will keep flying it. It's a pity to lose sales from that kind of people, we're taking about guys who watch the band of brothers series and play almost every WWII strategy game, from grand strategy to squad based ones, from Hearts of Iron to Company of Heroes. These guys are crazy about WWII history, so let's get them flying with us! ;)

If i could buy SoW, install the full version for me and then use the same disk to install a "training only" installation for my friends, we could be connecting to each other and i could help them learn. If they liked it, they would be buying it too. The way i'm thinking about it is to have only the training aircraft, 4-5 training missions (start-up and taxi, takeoff, cruise, descend, landings/touch and go, plus a full flight) that can be flown in single player but also in a co-op with another human player as a trainer, a solo test flight for them to earn their wings (with the trainer flying alongside in another aircraft) and then two more missions: a familiarization flight with a fighter and gunnery practice mission with a few ground and air targets.

See, we don't just want to show them pretty graphics of aircraft and the countryside, we want them to actually get to shoot at things and watch pretty explosions and damage effects as well, so that they become hooked and go out to buy it! This way SoW gets more sales, we get more wingmen to fly with and the rest of the community gets more easy targets, everyone wins :grin:

Maybe it wouldn't even be needed to supply the missions. Since the combat aircraft would need to be "locked" for the training-only installation, maybe Oleg's team should have to supply the two final missions per side that feature the fighters (familiarisation flight and gunnery practice) because they would need a special trigger to enable the use of the fighters. Then, the community could come up with the tiger moth/bf108 missions on their own since these aircraft would be unlocked by default on the training installation. What do you guys think?

[Skoshi Tiger]

This is so amazing, i would buy it in its current state even before it's completely finished.
...
Why not do something similar for SoW with training missions? We have a Tiger Moth and a BF108 and we have support for multiple crewmen online. A lot of my friends are into WWII history but nobody is into flight sims because they think it's too hard or they don't have an easy way for someone to teach them the basics, so they are reluctant to make the investement needed to buy a joystick and a flight simulator because they aren't sure if they will keep flying it. It's a pity to lose sales from that kind of people, we're taking about guys who watch the band of brothers series and play almost every WWII strategy game, from grand strategy to squad based ones, from Hearts of Iron to Company of Heroes. These guys are crazy about WWII history, so let's get them flying with us! ;)

If i could buy SoW, install the full version for me and then use the same disk to install a "training only" installation for my friends, we could be connecting to each other and i could help them learn. If they liked it, they would be buying it too. The way i'm thinking about it is to have only the training aircraft, 4-5 training missions (start-up and taxi, takeoff, cruise, descend, landings/touch and go, plus a full flight) that can be flown in single player but also in a co-op with another human player as a trainer, a solo test flight for them to earn their wings (with the trainer flying alongside in another aircraft) and then two more missions: a familiarization flight with a fighter and gunnery practice mission with a few ground and air targets.

See, we don't just want to show them pretty graphics of aircraft and the countryside, we want them to actually get to shoot at things and watch pretty explosions and damage effects as well, so that they become hooked and go out to buy it! This way SoW gets more sales, we get more wingmen to fly with and the rest of the community gets more easy targets, everyone wins :grin:

Maybe it wouldn't even be needed to supply the missions. Since the combat aircraft would need to be "locked" for the training-only installation, maybe Oleg's team should have to supply the two final missions per side that feature the fighters (familiarisation flight and gunnery practice) because they would need a special trigger to enable the use of the fighters. Then, the community could come up with the tiger moth/bf108 missions on their own since these aircraft would be unlocked by default on the training installation. What do you guys think?

Why not have so that the stripped down version can only be a crew positions within an aircraft that has the full install version of the sim.

I know anyone crewing for me more than once would value their virtual lives enough to go out and buy the full version. Seriously! I'm that bad!!!!!!

cheers!

[rakinroll]

Thank you man.

[JVM]

.......

Why not do something similar for SoW with training missions? We have a Tiger Moth and a BF108 and we have support for multiple crewmen on-line. ......



Hello! Keep in mind the Bf 108 was never used as a trainer...it is far too fragile and complex for that....This was a liaison/courier and personal aircraft.

The fact is we do not have (yet) an equivalent of the Tiger Moth on the German side. This would be either a Fw-44 or a Bucker Jungmann (there were many others but those ones being several still airworthy are easily accessible for proper reproduction).
There was a request by Luthier years ago to define which German trainer would be made if time would allow...I am not sure time is allowing because I did not hear of it anymore!

Another issue is that training on the German side happened in Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia...not in France on the front line...so we would not have a proper representation of a German training base.

JV

[SaQSoN]

Hello! Keep in mind the Bf 108 was never used as a trainer...it is far too fragile and complex for that....This was a liaison/courier and personal aircraft.

And there is no cockpit for 108. Neither is for Anson.

There was a request by Luthier years ago to define which German trainer would be made if time would allow...I am not sure time is allowing because I did not hear of it anymore!

As far, as I know, it wasn't built, or even started.

Another issue is that training on the German side happened in Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia...not in France on the front line...so we would not have a proper representation of a German training base.

Britain has similar issue, at least for the war-time. Since British pilots were trained in Scotland, far from front-lines as well. And this area of the Britain is not modeled on the game map, too.

[SaQSoN]

I have a small idea.

This idea is great, but unfortunately relatively difficult to do. Oleg said, there won't be enough time to even release a demo, which is basically the full game without net support and smaller aircraft selection and is rather easy to do. Taking this into account, I doubt, the guys will have enough time do what you suggest. But, may be for the future releases/post release demo - it would be interesting.

[Zorin]

And there is no cockpit for 108. Neither is for Anson.

Crying shame.

As far, as I know, it wasn't built, or even started.

I can already hear the flood of posts rushing in that will be full of blame for unbalancing the plane set like that right from the start.

Britain has similar issue, at least for the war-time. Since British pilots were trained in Scotland, far from front-lines as well. And this area of the Britain is not modeled on the game map, too.

I would hardly call that an issue. Neither for the German side. There could be smaller maps created to represent a training environement with the correct country side for each region.

[ElAurens]

No flyable Anson.

I am crushed.

[Avimimus]

No Flyable Anson for now. We will be able to add our own cockpits, ...right Oleg?

[KOM.Nausicaa]

This idea is great, but unfortunately relatively difficult to do. Oleg said, there won't be enough time to even release a demo, which is basically the full game without net support and smaller aircraft selection and is rather easy to do. Taking this into account, I doubt, the guys will have enough time do what you suggest. But, may be for the future releases/post release demo - it would be interesting.

Thanks for the information.

[Friendly_flyer]

That is a very interesting idea!

[bf-110]

I need flyable Anson!
I wouldn´t dare to shoot such a beaty like that...
And nice,SoW will have the same look of IL2.

[igitur70]

It is a great manual work... now two persons working over it. I hope in most places you will see these details. Many of them were done in 3D models. As well as many special nice details for the airfields that make them looking lifelike.

And as the samples of manually painted textures we use the photos. Modern and old of WWII time.
Not all things is possible, but we try to make everything looking like it was at 1940... Hard to find enough color material for that.


A very nice update Oleg, thanks.

As for details over the scenery, will we end-users be able to rework on the initial map and put forward some improvements that your team has really no time to deal with? After you approved those changes, they could be implemented through regular updates so to reach eventually an incredible amount of details over the entire map.

Obviously, that big work should be co-ordinated and dispatched between devoted members of this flight sim's community, everyone of us managing a definite surface of, say, 10 km2.

What do you think?

[Zorin]

A very nice update Oleg, thanks.

As for details over the scenery, will we end-users be able to rework on the initial map and put forward some improvements that your team has really no time to deal with? After you approved those changes, they could be implemented through regular updates so to reach eventually an incredible amount of details over the entire map.

Obviously, that big work should be co-ordinated and dispatched between devoted members of this flight sim's community, everyone of us managing a definite surface of, say, 10 km2.

What do you think?

I think that that won't work out the way you think - for practical reasons. The file size of a 100% populated map with all details would be way to big and probably unplayable. Yet different versions of the big map with certain regions detailed would certainly be nice to have.

[major_setback]

Correct. The model depicted here is a Mk.If night fighter. So actually I'd say it should be painted black overall, not Dark green/dark earth over sky...

I just read today that the earliest Mk.IFs (at Tangmere) were camouflaged.

Found this on the net too (maybe not IFs):

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/gallery/knvvl/bristol-beaufighter-with-radar.jpg

http://www.vectorsite.net/ttwiz_03_2.jpg

http://www.aviation-history.com/bristol/beaufit13a.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Bristol_Beaufighter_Mk.VIf_060922-F-1234S-039.jpg

[BadAim]

I think that that won't work out the way you think - for practical reasons. The file size of a 100% populated map with all details would be way to big and probably unplayable. Yet different versions of the big map with certain regions detailed would certainly be nice to have.

+1 I can see that sucker getting out of hand pretty quickly. I think the level of detail, from what I've seen will be more than enough for general purpose. The mission builders will probably take it from there, ultra detailing certain sections for given missions, and even making regional templates for themselves and others, as they do with IL2 now.

Not that the Idea isn't great, it's just unlikely any of us will have a 'puter capable of running a map with that much detail. (Not that many [if any] of us will be able to crank up the settings on release anyway)

[major_setback]

Oleg -Hedgerows are quite large by the way. Often taller than a man. They aren't the same as bushes or hedges.

http://www.northamericandevon.com/Images/June07/country_lane_park_465x309.jpg

http://www.cyclingnorthwales.co.uk/images/por_din5.jpg

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/19/07/190714_30bcc415.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc37/SittingFox/Hedgerow.jpg

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/87/09/870957_01cf08e8.jpg


http://www.noticenature.ie/files/hedgeweb.jpg

[AndyJWest]

we'll be able to see sunk ships and planes under water???
I think one of the screenshots of ships that Oleg posted showed some evidence of the hull being visible below the waterline.

The Channel isn't exactly transparent though, so you shouldn't be able to see far into it. Anything more than few feet or so down would probably be invisible. This depends a great deal on lighting conditions too.

[Blackdog_kt]

Why not have so that the stripped down version can only be a crew positions within an aircraft that has the full install version of the sim.

I know anyone crewing for me more than once would value their virtual lives enough to go out and buy the full version. Seriously! I'm that bad!!!!!!

cheers!

Yes, that would work too. We could get our FPS friends to join in as gunners ;)


Hello! Keep in mind the Bf 108 was never used as a trainer...it is far too fragile and complex for that....This was a liaison/courier and personal aircraft.

The fact is we do not have (yet) an equivalent of the Tiger Moth on the German side. This would be either a Fw-44 or a Bucker Jungmann (there were many others but those ones being several still airworthy are easily accessible for proper reproduction).
There was a request by Luthier years ago to define which German trainer would be made if time would allow...I am not sure time is allowing because I did not hear of it anymore!

Another issue is that training on the German side happened in Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia...not in France on the front line...so we would not have a proper representation of a German training base.

JV

Interesting, i didn't know the Bf108 was so fragile. I know about the other trainers you mentioned, but maybe we could be cutting some slack until there is a proper representation.

You're definitely right about the training not being done on the frontline. However, in the same vein as before, if we wanted to sidestep that issue we could suggest a smaller map (for example, the smaller DF maps in IL2 like Ardeness) that would roughly represent a scaled down portion of Germany around a major training base.

In my opinion at least, it would be worth it if it meant getting more people in contact with SoW.

Now, as for what Sasqon says, just like most of my other suggestions i don't expect such a feature (a "buddy training" installation) to be in on release day, not by a long shot. However, if time permits and they liked it they could do it sometime in the future.

It's true that most of us here will have no use for such a feature since we'll be getting the sim anyway and thus, it's not a first priority request. I'm sure that even the developers would rather work on something that will be used by the majority of the "confirmed" buyers at this stage, than spend time on coding what is essentially a marketing tool for the less interested part of the gamer community (ie, we can't be sure if the sales generated will be enough to justify the work at this stage).
It's just a nice way to generate free advertising so that Oleg's team benefits in the short term from increased sales and we benefit long term by keeping them in the business, something to think about for the future once the important parts are done :grin:

Again, thanks to the developers for the awesome updates and the community for the intelligent exchange of ideas and information.

[ElAurens]

No Flyable Anson for now. We will be able to add our own cockpits, ...right Oleg?

Yes, but for them to be used on the official online server they must meet Oleg's standards, and once SoW is released I am done with mods. Period.

So if it's some typical hacked up cludge of a cockpit it won't make it in, and conversley if it is way over done in terms of polygons, like many of the current crop of mod cockpits, we won't see it either.


Modders please note this.

[Oleg Maddox]

Very nice indeed,i do still see repetitive terrain tiles though.................is there no way around that?

There is really repetitive textures, but where you saw them in that update I don't know. :) Really :)

[LukeFF]

There is really repetitive textures, but where you saw them in that update I don't know. :) Really :)

Hi Oleg,

In these locations here I noticed the texture pattern is the same:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/LukeFF/shot_20100617_162922.jpg

[engarde]

repetitive textures, i can ignore.

damage model, flight model, recreating destructable systems within an aeroplane is what i crave in a flight sim.

im not going to be scrutineering land textures at all frankly.

this kind of nit picking is useless minutiae worship.

who buys a flight sim to endlessly study the ground??????

who notices the odd repetetive texture when you're looking for the Hun in the sun?????? Or for that matter Tommy?????

please Oleg, ignore myopic obsessive compulsives unable to stop fault finding in low importance areas, and keep the focus on the aircraft.

[Oleg Maddox]

Hi Oleg,

In these locations here I noticed the texture pattern is the same:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/LukeFF/shot_20100617_162922.jpg

They are really different isn't it?
Yes they hasve some comont structure, but have different locations of forest, trees, other types buildings and so on.

So in filght you can't be able to see this as a repetitive, especially under some angle of view.

[Oleg Maddox]

Oleg -Hedgerows are quite large by the way. Often taller than a man. They aren't the same as bushes or hedges.

http://www.northamericandevon.com/Images/June07/country_lane_park_465x309.jpg

http://www.cyclingnorthwales.co.uk/images/por_din5.jpg

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/19/07/190714_30bcc415.jpg

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc37/SittingFox/Hedgerow.jpg

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/87/09/870957_01cf08e8.jpg


http://www.noticenature.ie/files/hedgeweb.jpg

Such things really possible in 3D engine, but not possible on a large surface for rendering. Simply because of overloading - will be too great polygon count that to render it all the time. And if to make it pop up just from the small distance then you will see all the time moving surface and jumping cars... So the compromise - to make it by other ways - graphical, but flat, that from some altitude looks like 3D (same as the details of aircraft panels/covering method).

Not the time yet for such things to make it in real time rendering in overloaded flight sim
by other important advanced program codes. As in Il-2 we use compomises, but in many other than Il-2 areas.

[Sagamore]

Update is wonderful! I want to ask, will it is possible to do hands and feet of pilot visible, like LockOn or Arma 2?

[genbrien]

Hi.
Last week I asked a question but it was just before your Friday update, so I'll quote myself and ask it again :-P
Hi Oleg.
Nice update as always

I was wondering if you can tell us more about how the single player(campagn) will work:

-If the plane conserve the damage it received from mission to mission, will we have the ability to chose what to repair? (like hydrolics line would be 1st priority compare to small bullet holes)

-Will the pilot keep injuries from previous battles ?

Thank you for your time

[Chivas]

There is some very similar (almost exact) textures in the terrain, but they don't appear to be that noticeable. I would have to see a much larger landscape shot to be sure. Again I doubt it will be noticeable if roads, rails, creeks, and rivers are historically placed.

[Oleg Maddox]

Nice screens but why are all screenshots without AF and AA?

When we will have new video cards that are compatible with new technologies. At the moment we haven't them.

[philip.ed]

Oleg, can't hedges be made as whole, static objects, maybe for show? From an aerial view, they would look awesome, and then like the grass when you get down low they can change into more detailed objects....

[zodiac]

I hope yes. Right now it isn't like in real life. But I would like to have it realistic and not like the all the time winking. It should be really rare effect and almost not visible in some diection and distances.

Ok, hard to explain with my poor English... Simply I want to get it not like the hack... We will see in final...

Thanks for the reply Oleg! I can imagine those reflections are not an easy thing to simulate realistically. I only thought it was worth to ask by seeing the nice light-effects in the pictures. And somehow it doesn't surprise me to know that you and your team were really working on complex things like that :).

I still have another question. I'm gonna do it on this forum because I don't know where else to put it. As I live in the Belgian town of Wevelgem I really hope the airfield of Wevelgem will be included. It was used by KG26 (heinkels with codeletters 1H) during their bombing raids on London and was the Belgian military flight school before the war. If there is one thing I could do to give you information, I would be glad to help. I suppose you and development team aren't in the stage of making 3D buildings anymore, but I suppose any information about where they were placed on this airfield and in the neighbourhood is useful? I was thinking about hangars, FLAK locations, remarkable buildings,...

If somebody else on this forum knows where I have to direct this kind of information. Feel free to say so.

[Doogerie]

SoW is Looking sweet now I Hvae just one question about the map how much of thye UK is moddeld I man do you have all of the cities and Villages ect. Am just asking because where I live used to be a POW camp for German Airmen It's just outsde Reading I can't find a pic of it but yeah if he moddeld barksere it maight be there i used to be a big counrty house converted in to POW Camp and the demolished and tuned in to 24 houses after the war alot of the old pilots stayed in the villge after the war.

[Rodolphe]

I just read today that the earliest Mk.IFs (at Tangmere) were camouflaged.

Found this on the net too (maybe not IFs):




The Beaus shown are Mk.VIf indeed. ;)

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/gallery/knvvl/bristol-beaufighter-with-radar.jpg
Wing Commander C P Green's Mk.VIf .
Command the A flight, No 600 Squadron "County of London" from Nov 1941 till Jun 1942.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Bristol_Beaufighter_Mk.VIf_060922-F-1234S-039.jpg
Beaufighter Mk VIf KV912 "FLUFF", 416th Night Fighter Squadron at Grottaglie 11/11/1943

...

[Oleg Maddox]

If you have this shot in RAW format of your Canon EOS REBEL T1i camera, then simply send it me and I will show more real colors, saturation and even small details of this picture.
then we will post it here in comparison :)



The water in the last two shots is gorgeous. :-Phttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Sea water can have many color and in many areas, when in the sunlight, is just beautiful blue like in your last two screenshots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
This just put to rest one of my very few concerns about SOW.

Bloody great work gents! Thank you.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


It looks like the lakes on the Canadian Icefield Parkway I've seen few weeks ago:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/Icefieldparkway773.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Oleg, can't hedges be made as whole, static objects, maybe for show? From an aerial view, they would look awesome, and then like the grass when you get down low they can change into more detailed objects....


Hi, I know some of 3D. Oleg is right about the jumping arcs. And your idea "as a whole" can't be done, because you would need a lot of objects of the same detail "as a whole" too, otherwise your hedges will look like an awkward sharp "net" over the landscape until far into the distance, while all of the rest of the objects are blurred away in the atmosphere. (at least that is how it would look if I understood your idea correctly). You have to put all things really into the same "system of laws" that you have established (distance of rendering, detail of rendering)...giving one thing a free "rogue" permission will just result in horribly awkward pictures.

[Oleg Maddox]

Looking good :)

Still a bit to go in the landscape department in terms of matching the graphical fidelity of Wings of Prey. But really getting there...

As a point of difference, the trees in Wings of Prey really do have a nice sense of volume. The landscape textures also seem to be higher res than the SOW screens I've seen so far. I can see in these latest screens that the textures also blur out fairly aggressively away from the camera, but as you mention the graphical settings aren't finalised.

Very excited to see SOW mature into a powerhouse of a sim.

Take your time and get things looking and flying as best they can. :grin:

Cheers,

We have really better resolution in every detail.
Trees unfinished. Not our own... Hard to change their codes.... but should be OK. And then, remember we have a lot of detailed objects on the ground...
As I told the graphics we will tune till end of the project.

PS. However if you'll look with attention in comparion making the same shots in BoB campaign of WoG - we have.... try to define everything yourself....

[philip.ed]

Hi, I know some of 3D. Oleg is right about the jumping arcs. And your idea "as a whole" can't be done, because you would need a lot of objects of the same detail "as a whole" too, otherwise your hedges will look like an awkward sharp "net" over the landscape until far into the distance, while all of the rest of the objects are blurred away in the atmosphere. (at least that is how it would look if I understood your idea correctly). You have to put all things really into the same "system of laws" that you have established (distance of rendering, detail of rendering)...giving one thing a free "rogue" permission will just result in horribly awkward pictures.

Ah OK. Still, looking at what other flight-sims have acomplished, I think that this could be possible. To any degree, I have been driving around Kent a lot recently, and there are a lot more hedges than trees around ;) And the trees that are in a majority, ie in forests, have their foliage almost covering the trunks so the trunks are hardly noticeable, so from an aerial viewpoint the trunks would probably not be seen. I think this needs to be looked into, along with the colours of the landscape.

EDIT-but of course this is all WIP :P

Let's look at Il-2 gents. Compare how it is now, modded or unmodded, to the original demo and the difference is staggering IMO. If SoW follows in a similar way, then this will relly be interesting ;)

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Trees unfinished. Not our own... Hard to change their codes....

I have worked with third party tree renderers as well for movies. It's very hard to make them look right for your project - but still better than no third party tree renderer.
Most people that don't know 3D have no idea how hard it is to make your own custom trees looking good from far but also from very close. Building trees that do can take months for modeler.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

have their foliage almost covering the trunks so the trunks are hardly noticeable,

Do you have any idea what that foliage will do to you frame rates Philip.ed? ;-)

[LukeFF]

They are really different isn't it?
Yes they hasve some comont structure, but have different locations of forest, trees, other types buildings and so on.

So in filght you can't be able to see this as a repetitive, especially under some angle of view.

You're right, and I noticed that after I posted the pic. :) The differing locations of buildings and foliage does a good job of making the textures not look so repetitive.

[LukeFF]

I want to ask, will it is possible to do hands and feet of pilot visible, like LockOn or Arma 2?

Already been asked, and the answer was No.

[major_setback]

Oleg - will there be train tunnels?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/238/3163019033_20d0866624.jpg?v=0

http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/2/14/66/166412/v0_master.jpg

[PilotError]

Brilliant update.

Those screen shots are amazing.
Looks like it is all coming together nicely, and maybe not too much longer to wait until we can buy it for ourselves.:grin:

Thanks, and keep up the good work.

[jctrnacty]

Just a short question? Will SOW support 64 bit exe?

[major_setback]

I was about to post a picture of WoP showing how nice it is without repeating tiles.
But then I noticed that they do repeat:

Repeating tiles (can you see it?):

http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/wertgswetrbs.jpg

But the screenshot maybe does show trees with trunks hidden by leaves, as described by philip.ed above (this is not a criticism, just an observation).

[philip.ed]

Do you have any idea what that foliage will do to you frame rates Philip.ed? ;-)

:P LOL. I can imagine, although taking the example of WOP perhaps it could be avoided? e.g, in areas of forest, the trees could be static, i.e with no moving leaves etc apart from maybe the trees on the outside of the forest-area. So here, the effect would be visible from looking at the forest, without there being a massive impact of frame-rates :D

[KOM.Nausicaa]

if I understand correctly you talk about moving effects, like wind ?
But the problem really comes from the polygon count from the leaves and branches themselves, no matter if you have additional effects. That is why there are so many third party tree renderer, because creating custom trees from scratch is a massive resource eater for any studio. Tree renderer solve the "species" problem (you can buy from a library) and they are made to perform well and look reasonable -- which is very hard to achieve. That is why some companies have (rightfully) found a business model in selling trees and foliage to cinema and game studios.

[Oleg Maddox]

Small teaser for the ground details:

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Lovely -- I know Foobar did a lot of houses, hangars, train stations etc (and trains !)
Will you included some of his models ?

[Oleg Maddox]

Oleg - will there be train tunnels?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/238/3163019033_20d0866624.jpg?v=0

http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/2/14/66/166412/v0_master.jpg

We planned it, but skipped (even the work was done and there was superb ideas how to do it). No time to make it excellent. To make it bad - better nothing than bad - my very old principle.

However: Maybe later after release or maybe even in release. At first we should finish all more important things on the map. But if it will be done in release - anyway you will like it.

[Oleg Maddox]

Lovely -- I know Foobar did a lot of houses, hangars, train stations etc (and trains !)
Will you included some of his models ?

Yes, however reworked due to early problems with one of my guy, fired now.
Foobar knows all details

[philip.ed]

Sounds great Oleg. As I said above, SoW is just the base of a future of excellent sims. Knowing that it will be openly moddable to an extent, I can't wait to see what can be done with it! :P

So Oleg, will the map be open to re-texturing? And will the colours be seasonal? So will they change in a dynamic campaign?

[Oleg Maddox]

I was about to post a picture of WoP showing how nice it is without repeating tiles.
But then I noticed that they do repeat:

Repeating tiles (can you see it?):

http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/wertgswetrbs.jpg

But the screenshot maybe does show trees with trunks hidden by leaves, as described by philip.ed above (this is not a criticism, just an observation).


Probably we should make later the same screenshot for the comparison :) in every detail.

[philip.ed]

if I understand correctly you talk about moving effects, like wind ?
But the problem really comes from the polygon count from the leaves and branches themselves, no matter if you have additional effects. That is why there are so many third party tree renderer, because creating custom trees from scratch is a massive resource eater for any studio. Tree renderer solve the "species" problem (you can buy from a library) and they are made to perform well and look reasonable -- which is very hard to achieve. That is why some companies have (rightfully) found a business model in selling trees and foliage to cinema and game studios.

OK, that makes sense. Although there are many sims on the market with lots of trees on the maps so if they were able to do it and playable frame-rates....

But thanks for the insight ;)

[philip.ed]

Probably we should make later the same screenshot for the comparison :) in every detail.

Yes please :-P

[philip.ed]

'scus triple post, but Oleg, here are some useful aerial shots of England. They are modern, but IMO give a good demonstration:

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/Portfolio.htm

;)

[major_setback]

Small teaser for the ground details:

Very nice!!!

:-)

[lbuchele]

Small teaser for the ground details:

Oleg, this kind of structure, with the trucks inside, will be static or show activities, with doors opening/closing and the firetrucks going to the airstrip,etc...?

[KaHzModAn]

nice hangar here !
love to see that those windows are actually transparent !

and to major_setback, found a repetition, on the left of the tail of spit, and on right edge of the screen, exact same field with same small forest at the tip ! :-P

[Oleg Maddox]

Oleg, this kind of structure, with the trucks inside, will be static or show activities, with doors opening/closing and the firetrucks going to the airstrip,etc...?

Some will be active. Say hangars for the aircraft 100%.
Others - we will see in time. Anyway models has been developed that to make all things openable if it is present in a model.
This is also important for the future modders and their work.

[lbuchele]

Some will be active. Say hangars for the aircraft 100%.
Others - we will see in time. Anyway models has been developed that to make all things openable if it is present in a model.
This is also important for the future modders and their work.
This is great news.We will have a live , breathing world in SOW.
That kind of things really adds to immersion.
Probably your team wants to wait for increasing in computational power in the next years for adding new capabilities in SOW.
The attention to details seems amazing.
Keep going, Oleg and team.

[Foo'bar]

Small teaser for the ground details:

And additional development screenshots (http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/fahrzeugremise/).

;)

[Dano]

Quite curious as to how mulitcore CPU's are going to effect this, is it being coded to take advantage of them and if so is it something that will load balance across the cores or will certain aspects of the sim get shifted off to seperate cores, such as AI on one core, flight dynamics on another etc etc?

[major_setback]

Probably we should make later the same screenshot for the comparison :) in every detail.

I am very impressed by the WoP scenery (and by the SoW WiPs too, of course).
I think you mean that you will do even better scenery than WoP. If so then I will be very happy with that!!!:-) ..it is something I have been waiting a long time for.
...But I can imagine that the more complex game engine of SoW requires a lot more computing power than WoP, and that I would need a bigger computer to get similar results from SoW, especially if I wanted to feel air turbulence etc. at the same time.


I think I know the answer to the most asked question on this forum: 'what computer will I need for SoW'. The simple answer is: the biggest and best one you can possibly get! :-):-)

[Daniël]

Will there be jamming stations in SoW, so the radiocantact can falter?

[Cobra8472]

Absolutely excellent work Oleg.

Really looking forward to this sim!!

I would love to hear your thoughts on a rather important note;

In one of the SimHQ interviews, you and Ilya go into depth on your thoughts regarding the closure of ACES and hint at bringing current Flight Simulator X developers over and utilizing the Storm of War engine.
Since commercial addons are a big big part of the Flight Simulator X developer community- I'd really like to ask you how you feel about commercial addons?

Do you perhaps have any idea how open the engine will be to deeper level changes, such as implementing Heads up Displays, advanced avionics or for example new AI routines (tactics, etc)?
Being knee deep in the Flight Sim X development area (Quite a bit of my work in that F6F Hellcat you saw in the last update thread! :) ) these are indeed important things to consider, even as
a mod community enthusiast!

In any case, absolutely fantastic work- I see a bright flight simming future for all of us :D

[Chivas]

I know SOW will have correct elevations, but are riverbanks still possible? Some will say this is a very minor issue, but they would be surprised how this feature adds immersive depth to the terrain.

[lbuchele]

Regarding civil aircraft, how about Third party modders developing big and complex aircraft of the era like the panam clippers with a challenging engine management?
It will more in the spirit of the series than modern jetliners,for example.

[major_setback]

And additional development screenshots (http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/fahrzeugremise/).

;)

They are so detailed I can read the names on the tyres!!
He he :-)

[BadAim]

Made me look. :P

[ivagiglie]

Hi Oleg, the nicest screenshot for me was the one showing the wind settings, hopefully we will have some serious weather effects - navigation in IL2 is really too simple, unfortunately.
Improving in this area, together with more complex engine/plane frame condition management, will make the SoW a real simulator.

Looking at the dialog for the wind settings (MissionConditions) I have some questions though:
1) can the weather change or will it be set once and stay the same for the whole mission?
2) are the map(s) big enough for considering variable weather in different areas? (e.g. I take off with in a gentle breeze in Holland, find a strong wind over England and rain when eventually landing at Cherbourg)
3) ...and most important: will wind affect bombing?

Spasibo!

[Alien]

Oleg, I think that my question wasn't noticed:

Will metal bend while collision?

[phoenix1963]

I have worked with third party tree renderers as well for movies. It's very hard to make them look right for your project - but still better than no third party tree renderer.
Most people that don't know 3D have no idea how hard it is to make your own custom trees looking good from far but also from very close. Building trees that do can take months for modeler.

A point well made and I bow to your much more recent knowledge of 3D rendering and modelling. But surely at altitude Oleg could get away with something much faster. Say like "flat" trees, several layers of speckled greens, but with bump mapping (or tesselated) and spotty alpha transparency for contiguous woodland (the word forest is not much used in England and has specific meaning.)
And maybe these simple layers could co-exist with the more complex meshed trees but maybe overall alpha could be smoothly varied so you don't see the crude model close-up. That way you'd get the same "atmospheric physics."

Major_Setback's post http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=165761&postcount=174 clearly shows there's a distance in WoP where hedges and woods look rendered as fairly simple patches.

56RAF_phoenix

P.S. Sorry to harp on about trees and hedges, but they really will make a huge difference to immersion (as opposed to flashy explosions and similar eye-candy.)

[Friendly_flyer]

And additional development screenshots (http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/fahrzeugremise/).

;)

Stunning work, Foo'bar! I've always liked you skins, but those trains and buildings are work of art! Is all this for SoW:BoB? If so, just building virtual rail-roads with nice stations will be worth the prize of the game!

[major_setback]

Made me look. :P

I meant this, in case you missed it (the first picture):

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/category/models/3d/ground/

[DuxCorvan]

Oleg, my only, humble advice for terrain is: desaturate. I'm quite sure most of the visual problems -at least a good portion of them- related to the looks of ground, are because colors are a bit too saturated. Textures have a neon-ish quality and vibrating brightness that detracts from realism. Just a little bit of desaturation would make miracles to both ground and skins.

[Dano]

Oleg, my only, humble advice for terrain is: desaturate. I'm quite sure most of the visual problems -at least a good portion of them- related to the looks of ground, are because colors are a bit too saturated. Textures have a neon-ish quality and vibrating brightness that detracts from realism. Just a little bit of desaturation would make miracles to both ground and skins.

If there are any issues with the colour saturation they're minor, maybe you need to calibrate your display?

[I/ZG52_Gaga]

It is plane that won the BoB....
So before you shot down Hurry, this plane may shot down couple of bombers :)
Depending of pilot of course :)

Er ... no disrespect but one thing i have to remind to all is that .. the Head of the luftwaffe was on regular heroin dosage .... :P

Incredible shots!!

Can i have my game now please uncle Oleg? :)

[major_setback]

But now in il2 and RoF when you land in the shore or low water your planes or ship dissapear under a texture. so having under water modelled we can land on a sea shore and see the part of the plane under water.

...and submarines!!!
:-)

As you sit in your dinghy you can watch your plane slowly slipping into the murky waters of the channel...
...and watch transparent waves break the shore.

[Abbeville-Boy]

fantastic update!
i feel the time is very near, to fly north :grin:

[Richie]

I have a question. When the pilots bail over the channel will they have rubber rafts to float in or working life jackets. I notice in IL-2 that none of the German pilots ever had life jackets that worked, neither did the English or Russian pilots only American and Japanese.

[Foo'bar]

Stunning work, Foo'bar! I've always liked you skins, but those trains and buildings are work of art! Is all this for SoW:BoB? If so, just building virtual rail-roads with nice stations will be worth the prize of the game!

All models on that site (http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/category/models/3d/), beside some few exceptions, have been made exclusively for SoW. Not only BoB but for hole series. Even most of them for later theatres. The Kübelwagen has been made for Red Orchestra and has a internal model wich could be used for SoW - if MG wants to.

[Rodolphe]

...

@Foo'bar

Will "Leopold" be part and operational in SoW game ? :grin:

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/k5_01.jpg


http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mfe39146/Leo1.jpg
Batterie E.2/725 Calais, Frethun,
Stp. 113 “Uhu”: 2 x 28 cm. K5




Even most of them for later theatres.


Alles ist für die Reichsverteidigung vorbereitet ?


http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/wp-content/flaktower_1.jpg


...

[JVM]

...

@Foo'bar

Will "Leopold" be part and operational in SoW game ? :grin:

...

Interesting question, indeed...I have asked Oleg and his answer was non-committal...I guess that it will be ultimately related to the time left before release and two bottlenecks:

1) Foo'bar's model is I believe not yet complete (but close); everything related to firing platforms is still to be done (but FB will hopefully state his opinion)

2) The dedicated tracks and various firing platform locations have to be transferred to Oleg (I have the data, still need to make a kml file out of this). Note that these special tracks were apparently not used in Dunkerque and Ostende (never found any trace or mention), so because these two towns were important harbors with lot of properly curved industrial railway sidings the guns probably fired directly from the existing tracks and did not use firing platforms (educated guess only, unfortunately).

3) The Dom bunkers and tunnels sheltering the guns have to be located (this is part of the .kml) and modelized, for the bunkers (three of them, all identical).

4) Said tracks and locations must be integrated in the map and because they are not independent from the existing railway system, the latter has to be closely looked-after...and there, things become complicated, because they are marked differences between what is visible on Google earth in 2010 and what was there in 1940....VERY marked differences!
I also have the data, and I am working on the related .kml file as well...but the end result is a maze of tracks on the SoW area which would need to be integrated properly and I do not know what Oleg will do with that.

It is obvious that a proper transportation network (including large landmark steam depots, stations and the very much used - by Germans and population alike - 1 m narrow track network) will bring enormous additional quality to the map, but it would take time, and I suspect there is not a lot of it left! Oleg's call in any case...

Almost all of the BoB German bases were close and often connected to a part of the railway standard and narrow gauge network (in the case of Abbeville, the tracks run across one of the dispersal areas after the base was built in 1941).

Concerning Leopold, the K5 batteries (and more anecdotally the K12) have been a big concern for the RAF which has sent many bombers during BoB and after to try getting them out of use but succeeded (with US help) for two of them only in 1944 at Anzio! Even then the guns themselves were not really damaged but trapped in their hiding place by destroying utterly the tracks leading to them...

One gun was reconstituted in the US out of the two in Italy (sabotaged by the evacuating troops) and still visible in Aberdeen, Maryland. The Germans were later forced to abandon other K5 guns in France of which one is now at the TODT battery museum in northern France very close to their operational positions of 1940...

JV

[Foo'bar]

Will "Leopold" be part and operational in SoW game?

It's not my part to answer this question ;)

[Foo'bar]

1) Foo'bar's model is I believe not yet complete (but close); everything related to firing platforms is still to be done (but FB will hopefully state his opinion)

JVM is totally right. K5 model hasn't been finished completely due to other more important models and lack of proper internal mechanic references. Beside K5 cannon there are many things required like turntabele, dome bunker, railroad infra structure etc.

[philip.ed]

Foobar, do you have a copy of the game?! ;)

[genbrien]

Foobar, do you have a copy of the game?! ;)
If you have one, can you please send me a copy of it, I wont tell anyone I promise;):grin:

[addman]

Here are a few questions that aren't related to what type of grass will be present or what brand of cigarettes that the pilots will be smoking whilst waiting for the perfectly modeled air alarm to go off. Please bare (?) in mind that I haven't read every single SoW article/interview allthough I have followed the Il-2 series since Oleg and team did updates on that non-ubi forum back in 2000. I'm not the slightest bit worried about DM and physics, Oleg & Co, you've got it nailed for sure. I'd like to focus on the game part of the sim, namely the campaigns. For me -personally- a textbox repeating the same dull, generic missions (realistic as dull missions may be) are real immersion breakers no matter how realistic everything else is.

1. Will there be some kind of RPG elements (no, not leveling up or anything like that), like fatigue, injuries, morale for your pilot(s)?

2. Can you re-arm/fuel during missions?

3. Will you be able to fly the same plane from mission to mission, absorbing damage, get killmarks, repair etc?

4. Is there any form of strategic elements incorporated, like if I bomb a certain factory it won't be able to continue production.

I have a feeling that these questions won't be answered because most of above mentioned features won't be in the final product. It's not a deal breaker but for me realism is just as important as having fun :grin:

[Il2Pongo]

And additional development screenshots (http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/fahrzeugremise/).

;)

Love your Darkest Hour stuff too. Some of the maps I have seen, some not.
I play allot of Darkest Hour too, which just had a release.

[Alien]

Sh*t! Again!

[Hecke]

Sh*t! Again!



Could you please specify this statement.

[philip.ed]

I think it's a repercussion of being off nappies too soon. Alien, wear them for another month, and then maybe this won't happen :-P

[Alien]

I mean my question from 21. site was ignored AGAIN

[Rodolphe]

...

It's not my part to answer this question ;)


I guess so ! Great job anyway Foo'bar. 8-)




JV, Thanks for the details about the E5 Eisenbahngeschutze.



The turntable;
Vögele Drehscheibe in modell.

http://www.joefix-studio.be/voorbeelden/301.jpg


http://www.jadar.com.pl/5star/72009/bigimages/turntable_06.jpg


And the Dombunker.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-227-0274-15A%2C_Frankreich%2C_Atlantikwall%2C_Eisenbahngesc h%C3%BCtz.jpg

...

[AndyJWest]

I mean my question from 21. site was ignored AGAIN
If you mean the question you asked about 'metal bending', no Oleg Maddox hasn't answered it. There have been many questions asked about SoW:BoB. Some he chooses to answer, some he doesn't. Most games developers don't disclose anything like the amount of detail about projects they are working on as he does. Personally I'm grateful to see what he does tell us.

[JVM]

...


JV, Thanks for the details about the E5 Eisenbahngeschutze.


...

Nice models!

For your curiosity, Rodolphe, have a look there: 50.945894 N 1.795834 E

This is the last one still identifiable...

JV

[major_setback]

I mean my question from 21. site was ignored AGAIN

I think it is an impossible question to answer, that is why he didn't answer it.

If you want a piece of metal to bend, then I think it has to be modelled as bent
(or if you wanted to see it gradually bend - you would have to model each individual degree of the bend).

The propellers are bent in damage WiPs, but they are modelled that way.

I think it is impossible to make a 3D model that will bend, but I'm not an expert, nor even an amateur 3D modeller;
just an amateur forum contributor.
Maybe someone who does 3D modelling can tell you - Foo'bar? Saxon?

Bent propellers and flaps:

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/Vellington_damage06.jpg

[IceFire]

Never seen any software that did actual real time object deformation in that way. Virtually all games use tricks to change out one object for another that shows damage.

[SaQSoN]

It is possible to bent objects visually in real time, no problem. One would need to create so called "bones", each bone - is unbendable virtual object, to which vertexes from visual 3D object are assigned. Each vertex may be assigned to several different bones. While bones may be connected to each other under certain law. Move a bone - and attached to that bone vertexes will shift, visually bending the surface. Theoretically, one may create a set of bones for each structural element of airframe and bent it in any way he wants. The more bones - the more resources they eat, offcourse.

But from physical point of view (i.e. FM-wise), it hardly would have any sense. Or, to make it have sense, one would split physical model to the same number of fragments, as the number of bones in visual model and calculate all physics (aerodynamics, strength, etc.) for each of them. Which again quickly consumes calculation power of the computer. So, basically, such fidelity is far more then redundant for a game.

It is enough to have physical model split to a several dozens of fragments, for which the DM/FM calculated and respective to them visual parts with several state of "pre-modeled" damage, like you see on screenshot.

[JVM]

In any case the propeller will bend only on contact with ground/water, and it happens very fast (I saw it myself, more than once in real time), so fast that a two state modelling will simulate it well enough.
Fine tuning would be to add a model with only one blade bent, and a model with two blades bent (if 3 blades or more) to account for landings with a stopped engine.
Also the bent shape will not be the same for a fully solid propeller and a hollow core propeller; to finish wooden blade propeller and plastic propeller blades disintegrate but do not bend (no surprise there!)...

JV

[SaQSoN]

In any case the propeller will bend only on contact with ground/water, and it happens very fast (I saw it myself, more than once in real time), so fast that a two state modelling will simulate it well enough.

This is true for an explossion, or brake apart damage.

Fine tuning would be to add a model with only one blade bent, and a model with two blades bent (if 3 blades or more) to account for landings with a stopped engine.

What for? It is enough to make each blade a separate damageable object and change state for only damaged blades (damaged in physical model), leaving the other ones intact.

Also the bent shape will not be the same for a fully solid propeller and a hollow core propeller; to finish wooden blade propeller and plastic propeller blades disintegrate but do not bend (no surprise there!)...

Since visual damage is pre-modeled by designers, it's up to them, to learn what the blades (or any other AC parts) were made of and model damage according to the material and damage conditions.

You should understand, that visual damage and physical damage are like two different worlds, with the later being actually invisible to a player, while the first one serves as visual representation of it.

[JVM]

Oh, I understand...but visibly some modellers were not completely aware of the finer details of the structure of what they were modelling...and Damage Modelling is an art which goes far beyond 3D modelling...a bit closer to aeronautical engineer, maybe?

[SaQSoN]

Oh, I understand...but visibly some modellers were not completely aware of the finer details of the structure of what they were modelling...and Damage Modelling is an art which goes far beyond 3D modelling...a bit closer to aeronautical engineer, maybe?

To my knowledge, on all SoW:BoB models visual damage is modeled respectively to the materials the damaged parts were made of in RL and to their physical properties. Besides, some of the 1C modelers are former aviation industry engineers with experience in airframe design and material strength. So, they know very well, how materials in general and airframes of different design in particular behave/look like under damage.

So, here I wouldn't worry. Within the general game limitations the visual damage will be modeled as close, as possible to the RL and, certainly, will depict the physical damage modeling with the highest possible fidelity.

[nearmiss]

Several very nice improvements

Trees are placed next to the edges of the roads and streams.

This is so much an improvement over Il2.

Will ground vehicles be able to travel over countryside, passing around obstructions?

Can boats travel up and down waterways?

Is artillery now able to shoot over hills and obstructions?

Is artillery shooting distance comparable to actual distance?

[Foo'bar]

Never seen any software that did actual real time object deformation in that way. Virtually all games use tricks to change out one object for another that shows damage.

Remember the antennas of the armored vehicles Oleg has shown us recently. They bend actually.

[philip.ed]

Doesn't RoF incorporate some bending features....?

[imaca]

Remember the antennas of the armored vehicles Oleg has shown us recently. They bend actually.
Yep, but thats actually a reasonably simple calculation. It's not the same thing as actually calculating what happens to metal part which has some force applied to it until it is permanently deformed. This is done in engineering using FEA (finite element analysis). Even a relatively simple part with a single force applied cannot be done in real time.
A propeller turning and having repeated dynamic forces applied to it as it turns and hits the ground is something I would imagine taking hours if not days to calculate with any realism.
Doesn't RoF incorporate some bending features....?
There is no way the bending is calculated in real time.
I would guess there are a number of pre-defined deformed models which are selected based on the speed and angle of collision.

[ElAurens]

Doesn't RoF incorporate some bending features....?

I have to laugh.

ROF doesn't even get crashes modeled correctly, in the least.

And now with neoqb being forced out in favor of takeover by 777 Studios, I believe that ROF is in it's last days.

[JVM]

Why would you say that, ElAurens?

I understand 777 Studios is quite dedicated to the aerial simulation world (didn't they have one of their own in development?) and maybe it was Neoqb which was unable to pursue the development for some reason and in this case that a chance for RoF to continue?
I am just asking, I do not know the answer...

JV

[philip.ed]

I have to laugh.

ROF doesn't even get crashes modeled correctly, in the least.

And now with neoqb being forced out in favor of takeover by 777 Studios, I believe that ROF is in it's last days.

Fair enough, sorry my ignorance annoys you.

[katdogfizzow]

stunning! :-)

[fireflyerz]

Fair enough, sorry my ignorance annoys you.

Dont worry .ed , its not your fault your not in the elitest nobhead club , I think they go by the code name "senior member" , Im thinking of talking down to somone next week , that should be enough to get me in dont you think...?:rolleyes:

Ps , Whats happend to your avatar on the forums with no names , I was enjoying chopping the fingers off Mr Winstoned.

[philip.ed]

Haha, needed that mate :cool:

I'll do it this afternoon! :grin:

[lbuchele]

I have to laugh.

ROF doesn't even get crashes modeled correctly, in the least.

And now with neoqb being forced out in favor of takeover by 777 Studios, I believe that ROF is in it's last days.

It´s just your own opinion.
To me, the crashes are accurate enough for a light wooden and canvas aircraft.
I don´t expect that such aircraft explode in a million of parts crashing and the photos I have seen shows more intact aircraft
( if it doesn´t catch fire,of course ) after crashes that more modern, metal built aircraft.
ROF is in good hands with 777 studios.

[Grey]

I have to laugh.

ROF doesn't even get crashes modeled correctly, in the least.

And now with neoqb being forced out in favor of takeover by 777 Studios, I believe that ROF is in it's last days.


I agree! And the machine-gun shot cannot bend a wooden longeron. :)

[zapatista]

It´s just your own opinion.
To me, the crashes are accurate enough for a light wooden and canvas aircraft.

not really, in most crashes there is just a very simplified "canned" damage model implemented that doesnt take the actual physical forces into account working on the airframe.

a good example of this is flying an aircraft from 4000 m altitude straight into the ground at maximum speed (or plummeting to earth after having its wings shot off at that same altitude). in RoF the aircraft will hit the ground, bounce a couple of times, and come to rest with a wing or few other things broken. it looks no different then an aircraft that crashed from 20 meters, yet it should completely disintegrate with its engine half buried into the ground when it plunges down from 4000 meters at full speed.


I don´t expect that such aircraft explode in a million of parts crashing and the photos I have seen shows more intact aircraft
( if it doesn´t catch fire,of course ) after crashes that more modern, metal built aircraft.
ROF is in good hands with 777 studios.

many historical pictures from crashed aircraft in ww-1 with the aircraft being fairly intact would have been lower speed crashes and from lower altitudes, there are plenty of pictures showing disintegrated aircraft when the crash was more severe.

other then a low speed crash in RoF, crashes and physical forces working on the aircraft frame are fairly poorly modeled. enough for some eye candy, just not very realistic

[zapatista]

Here are a few questions that aren't related to what type of grass will be present or what brand of cigarettes that the pilots will be smoking whilst waiting for the perfectly modeled air alarm to go off. Please bare (?) in mind that I haven't read every single SoW article/interview allthough I have followed the Il-2 series since Oleg and team did updates on that non-ubi forum back in 2000.

1. Will there be some kind of RPG elements (no, not leveling up or anything like that), like fatigue, injuries, morale for your pilot(s)?

2. Can you re-arm/fuel during missions?

3. Will you be able to fly the same plane from mission to mission, absorbing damage, get killmarks, repair etc?

4. Is there any form of strategic elements incorporated, like if I bomb a certain factory it won't be able to continue production.

I have a feeling that these questions won't be answered because most of above mentioned features won't be in the final product. It's not a deal breaker but for me realism is just as important as having fun :grin:

some of those things oleg has commented on in the past, iirc ....

1. Will there be some kind of RPG elements (no, not leveling up or anything like that), like fatigue, injuries, morale for your pilot(s)?

pilot fatigue, and pilot "experience" will be modeled (one squad will have pilots of different skill level for ex)

2. Can you re-arm/fuel during missions?

yes, after repeated requests over the years this has now been implemented. hopefully also this will include some minor repairs to (no specific info on that yet afaik)

3. Will you be able to fly the same plane from mission to mission, absorbing damage, get killmarks, repair etc? yes, same aircraft can be used, and it will get "weathered" and worn in the process (partic engine wear and external airplane cosmetic weathering afaik), so if you treat your engine badly in some flights it can have effects later (not sure if this will be "repaired" if your aircraft stays on the ground, but for quick refueling and rearming flights this does come into it).

re killmarks, oleg mentioned "working on it" but i think there was some minor issues to be resolved, might not be implemented by game release time. might also have been to complex to implement right now for some specific technical reason.

4. Is there any form of strategic elements incorporated, like if I bomb a certain factory it won't be able to continue production. there might be, oleg has been asked repeated questions on that same topic. for ex, if bombing roads and bridges leading to an airbase or forward troops, will it affect their fighting ability after a while ? or if you keep bombing the fuel supply and repair hangers of an airfield does it prevent that airfield from being active in resupplying aircraft that land there ? no certain answer yet.... but...

from olegs mixed and guarded answers about this he obviously is thinking in that direction (again maybe not fully implemented by release time ?). for ex he has already stated that the AA installations in BoB work by integrating various sub-components, like spot lights, radar towers, and the AA gun itself (and even using different munition types, with munition boxes emptying when firing). if you destroy one element of the whole installation, for ex a spot light it makes the AA gun less efficient, and if you destroy the radar device the AA gun will only fire on visible targets but not anymore as part of a coordinated AA screens etc

i am just going by general memory on this, hopefully oleg or saqson can comment more specifically on how it will work

i fully agree that some of those elements are some of the most interesting developments, and it is what will get people hooked in a big way since their individual actions can have specific effects. (but not enough to affect the outcome of the war in a dynamic campaign server, according to oleg)

[addman]

Big thanks zapatista!:) Didn't think I would get any anwsers since most posts are about how well modeled the seagulls cloac will be. Wow! Nice to see those features being implemented, now I'm out of questions and eagerly await the release date ;)

[KaHzModAn]

not really, in most crashes there is just a very simplified "canned" damage model implemented that doesnt take the actual physical forces into account working on the airframe.

a good example of this is flying an aircraft from 4000 m altitude straight into the ground at maximum speed (or plummeting to earth after having its wings shot off at that same altitude). in RoF the aircraft will hit the ground, bounce a couple of times, and come to rest with a wing or few other things broken. it looks no different then an aircraft that crashed from 20 meters, yet it should completely disintegrate with its engine half buried into the ground when it plunges down from 4000 meters at full speed.

did you play ROF ? I don't say physical forces are calculated to affect the damage model accordingly... but it's not as bad as you say

from 4000m straight into the ground isn't possible without loosing your wings, so yes, you don't "burry your engine in the ground", but i'm pretty sure we are years away from a sim where impacts will realistically deform the ground...

so you hit the ground at maximum speed ? you know its around 250km/h for the fastest planes right ? even an I-16 can go almost twice that speed ! some WW2 planes can land at the max speed of a late WW1 plane... so why should it instantly be desintegrated ?

[SaQSoN]

so you hit the ground at maximum speed ? you know its around 250km/h for the fastest planes right ? even an I-16 can go almost twice that speed ! some WW2 planes can land at the max speed of a late WW1 plane... so why should it instantly be desintegrated ?

Because here's what happens to a steel car, which crashes into a wall at 100 km/h:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukq-UUQAcZs

So, why a wood&fabric plane would bounce off the ground after hitting it with the same speed? :roll:

[ElAurens]

Thank you SaQSoN, my point entirely. As I recall even Oleg commented on the poor DM in RoF.

There is a lot more to an air combat simulation than pretty 3D models and a small cadre of blinkerd fan boys who are so desperate for anything that they will overlook basic, and show stopping, problems.

Now, let's get back on SoW matters, shall we?

[philip.ed]

OK, so that's one wrong thing about the DM in RoF, but in many respects it has aspects I've seen that trump anything on the market at the moment. ;)